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A85327 Faith in five fundamentall principles, strongly fortified against the diabolical, atheisticall, blasphemous batteries of these times Serving for the conviction of opposers, the satisfaction of doubters, and the confirmation of believers. In a conference which a godly independent minister and a godly Presbyterian minister had with a doubting Christian. By E.F. a seeker of the truth. Fisher, Edward, fl. 1627-1655. 1650 (1650) Wing F993; Thomason E1375_2; ESTC R209221 23,410 56

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as all the wisdome and power of man could never do it As for example If you do but consider the excellent subordination of the creatures you shall see a wonderfull order if you do but cast your eyes downward and behold the lowest creature in the earth you shall perceive that when it is wet with the dew of heaven it nourisheth the grasse and the grasse serveth to nourish the beasts and the beasts they do nourish and feed man whereby you may perceive the combination and connexion that is amongst these creatures and here you may see an order from one thing to another and all to one end all to serve man and must you not then think and conclude That man is to serve him who is the Author of this Order and that is the very same whom wee call God And if you doe but cast your eyes upward you shall perceive such an heaven so beset and furnished with Sunne Moon and Stars as no man could make And if you look into the fabrick of the world you shall in your apprehension behold one thing contrary to another the water contrary to the fire and drynesse contrary to moysture and the nature of contraries is one to destroy another and yet you may see these brought to such a comely agreement that they doe not intrench or usurpe one upon another but match together in the composing of many things The Earth you know is heavy and massie and very huge in bignesse and there is no solid thing to uphold it nor piller to support it for it is founded upon the waters and yet notwithstanding it is setled or rather hung as a Ball in the Ayre and stirreth not a whit The Sea likewise doth continually threaten the Earth and the nature thereof is to overflow the same and yet we see it passeth not its bounds now all these things considered must it not needs follow that there is a great and soveraigne power which over-ruleth all these things who maketh them thus to keepe their order and who can that be but onely the God of Order Thus my loving friend you see that the whole world with all that is therein is a plaine booke laid open to all men yea even for Children to reade and as it were to spell God therein the consideration whereof caused one learned man Avicen to say that he who acknowledgeth not a God-head is void not onely of reason but also of sence yea and caused another learned man to Duples say that all men ought to be forbidden to call the being of a God into question upon paine of being men any more Many other lively Characters of the Godhead stamped upon the Creatures might be held forth for the further confirmation thereof but hoping that by this time you are convinced of this truth I will proceed no further therein at this time Chris Indeed Sir I am so convinced for I know not how to contradict what you have said and therefore I pray you proceed to the next point namely to prove that the Scriptures are the word of God Touching the Scriptures being the word of God Pres WEll Sir in my judgement you have done exceeding well touching this point And I hope not onely done him good but me also for though I doe beleeve that there is a God yet I hope the hearing of these your arguments will be a meanes to strengthen this my beliefe and confirme this conclusion and adde more to this my assent But now Sir to the intent that he may perceive that those whom they call Independent Ministers and those whom they call Presbyterian Ministers doe not differ but agree in these Fundamentals let me crave leave to speake to the next point Inde With a very good will Sir I beseech you doe Pres Well then my good friend I would pray you and beseech you as you tender the everlasting welfare of your soule to be perswaded in your heart that those Bookes which are called the Scriptures are the only word of that one God which Mr. B. hath I hope throughly convinced you of and that they are that onely writing whereby he hath shewed even from the beginning after what manner hee will be worshipped and served 1 And that I may with arguments also convince you of this truth I doe in the first place beseech you seriously to consider that these Bookes are more ancient then any History in the world I tell you truely that all Historians have beene forced to confesse that the writings of Moses w●re before all other writings and that the very latest of our old Testament writers are of more antiquity then the ancientest Authors amongst the Heathen Have you not read how Eupolimus in his booke of the Kings of Iury saith that Moses taught Letters to the Iewes the Iewes to the Venetians and the Venetians to the Greeks also Diodorus of Sicilia saith that hee understood by the Egyptians that Moses was the first Law-giver of all now the learned doe agree that the antiquity of the Scripture doth shew and prove both the trunesse and divineness of them 2 And I would also in the second place intreat you seriously to consider that the majesty and authority of the great God of heaven doth wonderfully appeare in the manner of the delivery of his minde in these bookes no proeme is there used but thus saith the Lord no reason is rendred but I the Lord have spoken it So that they doe require credit to be given to the matter onely because the Lord hath spoken it the duty of every man is therein required without respect of person the King and Ruler is there told his duty aswell as the Subject judgements are there threatned against the Rich man as well as against the Poore there are duties prescribed to the inner man as well as to the out-ward man they require obedience in heart as well as obedience in life they prescribe lawes to the thoughts to which no man can pierce they forbid lusting and coveting which no writing of man doth Now who can prescribe lawes to the heart and thoughts but onely he who knowes the heart and thoughts and that is God onely And in the third place I would also be-beseech you seriously to consider that the matter contained in those bookes which wee call the Scriptures doth wholly tend to the exalting of God and debacing of man the power wisedome justice and mercy of God is abundantly set forth in these bookes and so is mans vanity and weaknesse yea the greatest sinnes and foulest faults of Gods own people are there left upon record yea the penmen of these bookes were so void of all carnall affections in their writings that they neither spared themselves nor their dearest and nearest friends in their writings an example whereof you may see in Moses Numb 27. 13. 14. Deut. 32. 51. Exod. 6. 20. Num. 12. 1. And also in the Apostle Paul 1 Tim. 1. 13. from whence we may truely frame this