Jewels but with us at least by many amongst us such kind of persons are as vile though not so common as the stones in the street In other Religions they account of men the more and the better the more religious they seem to be and the more precise strict and punctual they are in the observation of the Rules of their Religion So the Papists so the Turks The Turks account all Fools to be Saints and many amongst us account all Saints to be Fools and the greater Saints the greater Fools Quest. Are not Nonconformists more precise than wise in not allowing themselves and others the delights of Playes and other divertisments Answ Dr. Heylin in his Geography observes that the Protestant Ministers in France are so strait-laced as not to allow of mixt dancing The Nonconformists here are not all of this Judgement they did not do not use to enquire before persons approach unto the Lord's Table whether or no where when or how often they have danced whether they go to see Comaedies c. I my self have been asked whether Dancing was lawful I answered Dancing was lawful but whether mixt dancing was they could tell better than I If it was to them a motive or incitement to evil to them it was unlawful else I dare not condemn it as sinful I will not make more sins than the holy Scripture and the Light of Nature has discovered to be so As for Stage-Playes if they were reformd and regulated so as to have no cursing or swearing nothing of lasciviousness and wantonness nothing of impiety or prophaness no putting on of Apparel not belonging to be sex by the Actors I should look on them as one of the best Recreations only I would not have seeing of Playes be made a mans work or business and that which should be but a divertisment be a man's whole imployment But as they are frequently made and acted if we may believe reports the must have stronger Champions than I to throw down the Gantlet or take it up in their defence 'T is well known the Ancient Fathers of the Church and some reverend and learned men Sons of the Church of England have condemned them Dr. Reynolds Doctor of the Chair at Oxford and we are told a Conformist too wrote against them Dr. Andrew Rivet Professor of Divinity and Tutor to the Prince of Orange and one that remembred the condition of our Sovereign when in Exile in his last hours and Prayers is no friend to them And Dr. Fern afterward Bishop of Chester offered to joyn with some Presbyterian Ministers in declaring for the sanctification of the Lord's day and against Stage-playes in the late times Yet as for those that go to see them I do not I dare nor therefore judge them no Christians or no good Christians because sometimes they are seen in the Theatre though oftener in the Church I must confess that that inference I may see a Picture therefore a Play is but weak and dark and but the shadow of an Argument For those who condemn such Representations on the Stage do the like in a Picture that is they damn lascivious wanton Pictures Books Songs as well as Playes Again the seeing of a Picture good or bad hath not I conceive such a powerful influence on us as the acting or personating on the Stage hath We are not usually so affected by reading of a Book as by heating a Speech the voice and action speak louder and are oftner heard than a dumb shadow or a silent picture However to conclude this matter I think the Author of the Friendly Debate had much better have spent his time in hearing or seeing of Plays than in writing of that Treatise yea that he might as well and to as good purpose have gone about to find out the wandring Jew he speaks of as to find Evidence to prove the generality of Nonconformist-Ministers neither good Subjects nor good Christians Quest What then do you think that the Author of the F. Debate was not well imployed in writing these Books and in discovering the vanity and childishness of Mr. T. W's Writings or the falseness and dangerousness of Mr. W. B. his Books to the World Answ As for Mr. T. W. I have heard that he hath written divers useful Books and I suppose in that Book or Books criticised upon might have been found matter as well as phrases and some great as well as little things and if a man had a mind to carp and cavil at other mens works as the Author of the Debate doth he might pull some of the Fathers by the Beards and tell them also they have written very childishly All men write not in the same We and phrase or in the like method as all Cooks dress not the same joynt of meat with the same sauce and garnish not the dish in the same manner when they send it up And some Readers and Auditors like one way of writing or speaking some another else what need such variety of Gifts but all tend to the Edification of the Church The Scholar is taken with one way of preaching or writing the Citizen with another the Countryman with another Mr. Calvin Mr. Farrel Mr. Viret all three had their Excellencies one in this way and manner and another in that If the Doctrine which is preached or printed be sound and wholsome what though the stile and phrase be not compleat and polite If thy meat be good and savory what though not served up in a Lordly Dish I had rather have wholsome Food in an Earthen Platter than Poyson in a Golden Charger I suppose all Conformists have not the same low opinion of Mr. T. W. if it be true which I heard that one of them preached one of his Printed Sermons and that a Citizen his Auditor after Sermon went to him with a Thank you Mr. Watson for your pains Quest Doth not Mr. W. preach and print dangerous and poisonous Doctrines such as tend towards Commotion and disturbance of the publick Peace Answ If he do I leave him to apologize for himself I will be no Advocate in such matters And if he doth he is condemned by those of his own way I mean our Brethren of the Congregational Church Twenty nine Ministers of that Judgement as to Church-Goverment being in and about the City published a Renunciation and Declaration against the horrid Insurrection and Rebellion acted by Venner and his Confederates to which they subscribed their Names In conclusion of which they declare as followeth We cease not to pour out our hearty prayers for all sorts of Blessings spiritual and temporal upon the Person and Government of his Majesty both in our Congregations Families and Retirements and through Gods grace according to our Duties shall continue so to do our selves and to perswade others thereunto and to live quietly and peaceably in all Godliness and honesty And as to the Actings and Resolutions of Venner and his party they say The
a Phrase-Divinity p. 138. Of Ruling Elders p. 141. Of the Use of Reason in Theologie p. 143. Whether Arminians or Calvinists come nearest to the Doctrine of the Church of England p. 144. Non-conformists not like the Donatists p. 145. ERRATA Page 6. line 10. for gage read gauge p. 35. l. 18. f. Antiparistasis r. Antiperistasis p. 36. l. 13. f. humours r. honours p. 37. l. 17. f. Btailas r. Brayles p. 42. l. 12. f. Christmss r. Christmas p. 43. l. 14. f. leave r. leave p. 50. l. 3. f. Rigidissimos r. Rigidissimo's l. 12. r. if more c. p. 79. l. 24. f. mediatore r. mediatorem p. 80. l. 29. f. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 93. l. 23. f. aequilibro r. aeliquibrio p. 117. l. 7. f. disquet r. disquiet p. 119. l. 14. f. Academae r. Academiae l. 19. f. ni sialiter r. nisi aliter An humble Apologie for Nonconformists with modest and serious Reflections on the Friendly Debate and Continuation thereof c. Question WHat Reason can be given if there be no guilt in the Nonconformists that no Answer was given to the Friendly Debate for so long a time Answ Bishop Bramhal that learned Prelate may be their Advocate in this Case I hope the Sons of the Church will not disdain to hearken to a Father of the Church Those who have composed minds free from distracting cares and Means to maintain them and Friends to assist them and their Books and Notes about them do little imagine with what difficulty poor Exiles struggle whose minds are more intent on what they should eat to morrow than what they should write Bishop Bramhal of Schism pag. 275. Besides if an Answer had stolen forth without License would it not have been arrested for a seeming breach of a late Act about Printing and the Author of it according to the Divinity and Logick of the Friendly Debate pag. 3. concluded to be neither a good Subject nor a good Christian vide Deb. pag. 2. Edit 4. Quest. Whit Answer then can be made for printing this present Answer and Apology Answ The Intent and Design of Laws is the Conservation of the Publick Peace The Law is Just Uniform and no Respecter of Persons whether Conformists or Non-Conformists but binds all to the Peace and Good Behaviour alike doth not hold one Mans Hands whilst Another cuts his Throat or stabs him under the fifth Rib. If a Man be once and again violently assaulted he may lawfully defend himself The Author of the Debate hath smitten us on the one Cheek and on the other also hath reviled us and with his Pen persecuted us and said all manner of evil against us falsly In this case a dead and stupid silence might argue we were verily guilty concerning the Crimes laid against us If a man that is Charged Indicted and Arraigned refuseth to plead the Law adjudgeth him to be pressed to death Our blessed Saviour himself Apologized for himself and his Disciples So did Justin Martyr and Tertullian for the Primitive Christians The great and soul Blots which have been cast upon our Names by that Author would not soon out if no means or endeavors should be used to wipe them off Quest. But is every Transgression of a Humane Law though but penal so culpable of criminous as is pretended Answ I humbly conceive not And there are thousands of good Subjects and good Christians many of them good Sons and Daughters of the Church of England who did eat Flesh last Lent or last Fryday asking no Question for Conscience-sake in reference to any penal Law or Statute in that Case and who have not scrupled to bury their Dead in Linen though contrary to a late Act of Parliament And if you lay so great a Burthen upon every breach of a penal Statute how shall the Carrier long keep his Cart on Wheels or the Citizen long stand on his Legs for want of Trading by reason of an Act of Parliament requiring the Tire of the Wheels to be four Inches wide under the penalty of forty Shillings for each offence Quest. Is it not therefore enough to satisfie the Law to pay the Mulct or Penalty required in such Cases Vide Contin pag. 22. Answ Mr. Perkins famous both at Home and Abroad for his great Piety and Learning hath amongst his Cases of Conscience this Case Whether Students in Colledges and Members of Corporations are tied to observance of their Local Statutes under pain of Perjury In resolving whereof he hath something useful and pertinent to our purpose He saith That Statutes are of two sorts Principal and Fundamental or less principal the first sort belonging to the Being of the Society are necessary to be kept under pain of Perjury As to the lest principal namely Statutes that are for Order and Decency the Founder er Law-Maker exacts not Obedience simply but either Obedience or the Penalty because the Penalty is as much beneficial to the state of the Body as the other that is as actual Obedience And in this Case he doth not charge the Breach of any Local Statute with the crime of Perjury And Bishop Taylor in his Rule of holy Living Chap. 3. pag. 183. saith thus As long as the Law is obligatory so long our Obedience is due and he that begins a contrary Custom without reason sinneth But he that breaks the Law when the Custom is entred and fixed is excused because 't is supposed the Legislative Power consents when by not punishing it suffers Disobedience to grow up to a Custom And I have formerly learnt it for good Divinity That every meer or bare Omission to do a thing required by Law is not a sin extra casum scandali contemptus provided it be not done scandalously and contemptuously or with offence to our weak Brother and in contempt of the Magistrate Quest What 's all this to the Case of the present Nonconformists Do not they scandalously and contemptuously break the Laws in dwelling in and neat London and holding Religious Meetings commonly called Conventicles Vide Debate page 2. Answ Many of them have taken the Oxford Oath and are legally qualified to live in Corporations Others cannot possibly live in the Countries for want of a Livelihood I have heard of a Reverend Minister that going abroad to seek maintenance from well-disposed Christians being benighted lost his Way and his Life both being through cold starved to death Others perhaps will plead they cannot live peaceably in the Country I heard one and a principal one say He never looked towards the City nor ever should if he had not been driven out of the Country The Law of Nature teaches the Hart the Hare and all Creatures that are pursued to fly to the nearest and thickest Covert or hiding place I have heard Huntsmen talk of giving the Hare Law I do not well understand Forrest Law but I believe this is not meant by it That she shall have no mercy
To the Law or to the Gospel to his own Obedience or Good Works or to the Obedience of Christ Answ The ordinary method of Cure is first to search the Wound to the bottom and then to apply healing Remedies first to pour in Wine and then Oyl Our Physitians use first to purge or vomit their Patients and then to give Cordials So spiritual Physitians till the Patient be truly and rightly sensible of his sins they send him to the Law for by the Law comes the knowledge of sin the horrid nature and demerit of it but then for Comfort they send him to the Gospel to this soveraign Balsom yea they pour on them the Oyl of Gladness upon whom they perceive has been the Spirit of Heaviness They say not Physitian heal thy self but rather send them to the Great Physitian by whose stripes we and they are healed We dare not trust in our own Righteousness but in the Lord our Righteousness Quest Do not Nonconformists as they desire liberty from the Impositions of Men in the Worship of God so preach up liberty from the Commandments of God in the Course of their Lives Or at least do they not lift up their Voice like a Trumpet when they publish the Gospel but onely speak in a small and still Voice when they treat of Obedience to the moral Law Answ 'T is an unjust Calumny cast on the Protestants by the Papists That they are Solifidians and against good Works And 't is an uncharitable censure of the Nonconformists by the Author of the Debate that they do not preach obedience to the Moral Law as well as Faith in Christ and the Duties of the second Table of the Law as well as of the first Whoever reads the Assemblies Confession of Faith their Larger and Shorter Catechism M. Dod on the Commandments Mr. Anthâ—â— Burgess his Vindiciae Legis may see clâ—â—â— that the Nonconformists are not Libâ—â—â—â—es â—â—â—â—gh they desire some Liberty and that thou 〈◊〉 pray to be delivered and freed from humane ceremonial Laws as God has freed them from the Ceremonial Law of his own making yet they are not Antinomians they commend and in Gods name require Obedience as well as Faith Doing as well as Believing they commend Moral Honesty but prefer Piety We deny him to be a truly godly man that is not a good honest man we deny him to be righteous before God that endeavours not to approve himself righteous in his dealings with men We would not by any means break the two Tables by dashing them one against the other and yet we prefer the Gospel before the Law Christ to Moses the second Covenant to the first that of Grace to that of Works Quest Is not Obedience then to the Moral Law the Condition of our Justification See Debate p. 13. Answ No 'T is not the Condition and Qualification of the Covenant so properly D. M. as 't is of those Persons that enter into the Covenant Faith justifieth the Person before God and Obedience justifieth the Faith before men Obedience saith a Reverend Author must be in the same Subject with Faith but it hath not a Voice in the same Court We do not cry down mans Obedience when we cry up the Obedience of Christ as the matter of our Justification and the Imputation of it as the form of our Justification We dare not appear before God in our own filthy Garments and menstruous Cloaths We expect a Blessing from our Heavenly Father when we are arrayed with the Robes of our Elder Brother Jesus Christ his Righteousness which sends up a sweet smell in Gods Nostrils Quest Is Faith or believing in Christ a coming to Christ or a relying on Christ for the pardon of our sin See Debate p. 43. Answ Yes John 7.37 38. there coming to Christ and believing are all one And to what end Sinners are called to come to Christ we my learn from our blessed Saviour Mat. 11.28 namely That they may find rest I believe in God saith Bishop Nicholson in his excellent Exposition of the Church-Catechism as if I said I put my whole trust hope and confidence in him I â—ely upon him And so may Faith in Christ I â—hink be very well described to be a relying on Christ for the pardon of our sins and all good â—hings If my memory fail not I have often â—eard that Renowned Professor Dr. Samuel Ward deliver it for good Doctrine in the Chair That Faith was Recumbentia in Christum Mediaâ—re c. a Recumbency on Christ for the pardon of â—ins .. One Mr. Down that wrote too against Separation defineth Faith to be a rest of the Will upâ—n Christ and his merits for Justification and consequently Salvation And the same Author obâ—erves that the Hebrew words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 all words equipollent in the old Testament and what is meant by them in the Old Testament is expressed in the New by Believing To instance in one Trust in the Lord with thy whole heart saith the Old Testament Prov. 3.5 If thou believest with thy whole heart or with all thy heart saith the New Act. 8.37 We may define Faith thus It it a gracious habit infused into the Heart by the Spirit of God whereby the Soul rests or rolls it self upon Christ for all things appertaining to Life and Godliness for Gods Glory and its own Salvation Quest. Who are the greatest Enemies to the Church of England and to Religion it self those who bring in new and strange Doctrines or those that dissent onely from her as to the Ceremonies Answ Those that differ in Substantials 〈◊〉 Religion are to be thought more to differ thâ—â— those that differ onely in Circumstantials and those ought to be reputed the greatest Nonconformists who do not conform to the Doctrineâ— the Church of England set forth in her Articles Homilies and Liturgy Quest. Who are they Answ Even many that have been conformable enough as to Ceremonies their Names anâ— Tenets you may find in a Book entitled Laudeâ—sium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and in another called Laâ—densium 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Who they were thâ— maintained these Doctrines and their Doctrinâ—â— in some measure also you may find in Mr. Rushworth's Collections and others who have written the History of the Times immediately preceding the late Wars I shall refer you to one and that is Dr. Fuller in his Church-History who relates that it was complained of to the Sub-committees for Religion in Parliament of which Sub-committee the Bishop of Lincoln the Bishop of Armagh the Bishop of Durham the Bishop of Exeter Dr. Sam. Ward Dr. Hacket Dr. Holdsworth and others were Members that all the Tenets of the Councel of Trent abating only such points of State-Policy against the King's Supremacy as were made Treason by the Statute Good works Co-causes with Faith in Justification private Coufession by particular ennumeration of sins needful necessitate medii to Salvation that the Oblation
that Law in the very design of it Else why contrary to the Act of Oblivion doth he rake up the memory of what was written and preached before and in the Wars and that sometimes by persons very little considerable for their parts learning or place amongst their own party and why doth he charge those things upon the Nonconformists of this Generation Quest Were not Nonconformists even from the beginning of Nonconformity generally very peevish impudent censorious and disobedient to Authority Answ The Old Puritans if we believe the Historian and he was a Conformist and a Dignitary were humble meek patient hospitable charitable as in his Censures of so in his Alms to others Dr. Full. H. 6.11.220 And if we beâ—ieve the Author of the Debate the Ancient Nonconformists were many of them men of â—ober and peaceful principles and did submit to Authority and were enemies to Separation such were Mr. Ball Mr. Geere and all those who were the Authors of that grave and modest Confutation of the Error and Sect of the Brownists or Separatists published by Mr. Rathband Quest. Have not some of the High Sons of the Church changed their Principles in relation to King and Parliament Answ Time was when they pleaded strongly Where the Word of a King is there is power But lately when his Majesty published a Declaration about Ecclesiastical Affairs c. then their note was changed That was no Law they said and the King could not do it without the Parliament And yet then the House of Commons gave his Majesty thanks for doing it Time was when a Long Parliament was accounted by them a grievous Disease and now it is the great Remedy Time was when they cryed down all Parliaments now they cry up this Whence comes this change I answer The case is alter'd quoth Ployden Quest Is this good Logick or solid reasoning Mr. Lewes Hughes Mr. Vicars Mr. Bridges did write thus and thus in the War-time Ergo or therefore the Nonconformists at present are all thus and thus Answ I deny the Consequence as the Author of the Debate would and well might If a man should argue thus Mr. VVhite set out a Book of a hundred which he called Scandalous Ministers that were ejected by the Parliament If we grant some of those hundred were scandalous therefore all that were ejected in those dayes were scandalous Or thus They say one Wallis of Gloucester published a Book of scandalous words and deeds of perhaps twenty or thirty now Conformable-Ministers therefore if some of them were guilty all that conform are faulty in like manner Quest Is it an argument or evidence of eminent Godliness and of extraordinary Charity to charge thousands with Errors or miscarriages of half a dozen or half a score Answ No. God who is Love it self would have spared Sodom for the sake of ten righteous persons And surely our enemies when they are serious and sober and their passions not predominant both of old and of late might find if they would look about more than ten righteous persons godly meek modest charitable and peaceable among the Nonconformists In the beginning of the Reformation there were a sort of Anabaptists rose up in Germany and did horrid things at Munster and elsewhere was the fault therefore in the Reformation Although the Papists use to charge it upon the Protestant Religion that it is the Spring and Fountain of Sedition and Rebellion where it is received Yet both We and our Brethren Conformists are able to wipe off that foul aspersion and so are the Nonconformists of these dayes the dirt that is thrown in their faces by the aforesaid Author If any have called Conformists Egyptians Babylonians Canaanites Antichristians or the like let it not be charged on those that disapprove and condemn their sayings If any speak in the Clouds and you fancy they challenge to themselves a power by Prayer to rain down Blood upon us let it not be charged upon them that live quietly and peaceably in the Land teach men so to do by their life and doctrine if they preach at all If there be any man that designs by preaching or otherwise to throw the Nation into War and Blood again I wish he may prophesie in Sackcloth And when he pretends to pour out Vials of Wrath his threatnings may be like water spilt upon the ground Quest Do Nonconformists look shortly to shut Heaven and turn Waters into Bloud C. Answ Mr. Parker of New-England printed a Book on Daniel's Visions and Prophesies Anno 1646. and according to him there will be no shutting of Heaven no turning of Waters into Blood at least no putting off of the VVitnesses Sackcloth which saith our Author Contin of Fr. Deb. p. 142. Mr. W. B. now expects till the year 1856. when we shall be all Conformists and Nonconformists at peace in our Graves If Mr. W. B. discourse of such Prophecies in his Sermons I assure you he and one more are all that I can hear of that meddle to preach on such subjects I am told Those that preach in private preach Faith and Repentance and meddle not with matters relating to the Government either of Church or State And I was lately asking a prime Nonconformist and an able Preacher what he said to that Objection in the Debate that the Nonconformists did not preach up Obedience to Magistrates He very zealously and confidently replied They did it and that more than the Conformists themselves Quest. Do not the Conformists some of them medule sometimes with the interpreting and applying phrases and notions they meet with in the Revelations Answ Bishop Williams Bishop of Ossory wrote a Book to prove the Long Parliament Antichrist and he or another made Oliver Cromwel Antichrist and Dr. Fuller in his Church-History writes of one that observed that the Covenant had in it the Number of the Beast One hundred sixty six consisting as he said of just so many words Quest Were not the old Nonconformistâ— much better then those in our days C. Answ Their Nonconformity did not cosâ— them so much as it doth us and in the times they lived they were likely accused as we are now When we are as they now really as well as Legally dead it may be we may have a good word also In Queen Elizabeth's days the Nonconformists were not more pliant or complying than they are now There were not the Tythe of the Ministers then ejected to what since There were more bitter Books put out then against the Hierarchy than are now If I mis-remember not the Nonconformists gave the first Charge then but now-a-days we are alarum'd and assaulted once and again and no man appeared publickly to defend our Principles or Practices We are loaded with Reproaches and many grievous and heavy things laid to our charge and no man for a long time in our name in print so much as pleaded Not Guilty and offered to Traverse the Indictment or put himself upon the Tryal of his Country Say
a better man than ever he thought him to be there were so many good things charged upon him And another Presbyterian now a Nonconformist preaching to the same Auditors preached that Antichristian and Babylonian were terms sooner imputed or charged than proved But if the Nonconforming-Ministers or People were yet ignorant and to seek for scoffing and reviling language they might have a Dictionary of such hard words out of the Friendly Debate If there be in Private-meetings that use railing and reviling speeches as too many too often have is publick Congregations I would rather advise people to sit quietly at home if they will not go to Church than to go or step out of doors to learn their language I do not love a biting tongue and I take a black mouth to be as venemous in a man as 't is accounted wholsom in a dog And if there be any printed Book wiâ—h such railing speeches or phrases in them I will promise you it shall never have my Imprimatur without an Index expurgatorius in the next Edition Quest Is the Divinity of the Nonconformists a Phrase-Divinity and in case their Books and Sermons are not fill'd with foul language is there any thing besides fine words and new phrases in them Answ There was something besides words in the Old Nonconformists witness the writings of Mr. Dod Mr. Ball Mr. Hildersham Mr. Bradshaw c. And doubtless there is matter and that good matter and sound speech that need not to be ashamed in the Writings of Nonconformists of this Generation witness the Books written by Mr. Baxter Dr. Manton Mr. Caryll Mr. Allen Dr. Owen Mr. Pool c. they hold to Scripture-expressions and to the terms of sound words which they have received from the most serious solid pious Bishops and Doctors of the Chair Professors at home and abroad in former times yea the Nonconforming-Presbyterians and Congregational Ministers profess to agree with our Articles of Religion of the Church of England in all things concerning the Doctrine of Faith and Ceremonies And is all this but Phrase-Divinity The Author of the Debate and divers other of the present Conformists may as justly be charged for new Divinity new minted words in Divinity new phrases and modes of expressing themselves in Sermons and Writings and these too less conform to the language of the holy Scripture our own Articles and Homilies the Harmony of Confessions of the Reformed Churches and our ancient Bishops and Doctors The Author of the Debate though he seems to be the Bishops Advocate yet his Writings shew him more an Episcopian than an Episcopalian and 't is easie to see from what forge they have their new Divinity and new Theological Dictionary Quest. Were not the Nonconformists the cause of the strange and new Doctrines and Opinions and of phantastical words and phrases in preaching and writing Ans I grant the taking down the old Mound or Hedge and not setting a new one in the room was an occasion that many erronious persons like wild beasts did get into the Vineyard and that some strange Doctrines Phancies Phrases and Whimses were vented in the Times of War and late Confusions but I say that these things are not to be charged upon the Presbyterians for if they had had power to their principles and purposes they would doubtless have raised up a Mound or Fence against such Errors Fancies and Follies as strong as that the Parliament removed I have heard it observed that of all Churches no Church hath had fewer Heresies and Heterodoxies spring up or at least prosper in it than the Church of Scotland and that this was acknowledged by King James Quest Were all that took the Covenant bound thereby to endeavour to introduce the Government of the Church of Scotland into England because they obliged themselves to maintain and defend Religion in the Church of Scotland and to reform Religion in the Church of England Vid. Contin p. 168. Answ No. They engaged only in their places and callings and so far as lawfully they might to preserve Religion in the Church of Scotland against the Common Enemy notwithstanding which the Scots might reform ought that was amiss or defective with his Majesties leave and consent in a legal manner And the English Covenanters were not bound to model the Church-Government in England according to the pattern of the Kirk of Scotland but according to the Word of God and the best Reformed Churches Whether Scotland or Holland or Geneva c. was the best Reformed Church was not determined And the English were not engaged in their places and callings and so far as lawfully they might by the Covenant to follow the Model of any one of these or all the Reformed Churches in any thing disagreeing from the Word of God and in case a primitive Episcopacy that is Church-Government by a Bishop with a Presbytery as his Counsellors and Assistants prove most agreeable to the Word of God they were bound to set up onely in their places and callings and so far as lawfully they might that Government in the Church of England Notwithstanding what the Earl of Bristol when Lord Digby hath written in his Letters to Sir Kenelm Digby viz. He that would reduce the Church now to the Form of Government in the most primitive times should not take in my Opinion the best nor the wisest course I am sure not the safest for he would be found pecking towards the Presbytery of Scotland which for my part I believe in point of Government hath a greater resemblance than yours or ours to the first Age of Christs Church But whatever was the meaning of the Imposers or Takers of the Covenant in those days I have heard an eminent Person a Doctor that had taken it though a Nonconformist declare That he was not bound by it to endeavour any other Reformation than what he had been obliged unto if he never had taken the Covenant that he is not bound to use any unlawful or seditious means or endeavours to bring about a Reformation That the Law of the Land is the Rule to judge by what means or endeavours are unlawful and seditious Quest Do not the Presbyterians play fast and loose and turn with the wind Was not the time once when they held Ruling Elders to be Jure Divino but now they hold no such matter Answ I believe the Scottish Presbyterians were and still are of that Judgement that Ruling Elders are Jure Divino but I knew few English if any that held that Office so save onely in a large sence as many Episcopalians now hold Bishops to be Jure Divino that is a lawful Government not repugnant to the Word of God However 't is said and that by no mean Scholar That Geneva did not first institute those Officers but only restored them And I have read that it was acknowledged by a great Prelate That the Church had in every Church certain Seniors to whom the Government of the Church was