those workes that our Lord the hath made vs redéemed vs consecrated vs to his own seruice hath prepared for vs to walke in As for workes diuised by men wee esteeme of them as wee finde them If wee sée that they bend to the setting foorth of Gods glory in our edification wee vse them otherwise wee refuse them But the workes that God hath commaunded wee are carefull to doo And when by the infirmitie and corruption of our nature wee stumble and fall wée crie vnto our mercifull father for help as being assured that hee heareth vs and in tender affection towards vs will help vs yea though hee doo for a time suffer vs to lie vnder that too too heauie burthen of sinne vnder which wée are fallen by infirmitie Wee seeke not to our fellow seruants as to Angels or men much lesse to Antichrist the professed enimie of our Christ and sauiour Wee trust not in our owne strength nor in any merites that may bée in vs but wée trust in our God and our onely sauiour Iesus Christ And when wee haue walked vpright and haue done that which wee are commaunded to doo wee say as our Sauiour hath taught vs to say wee are vnprofitable bond slaues wee haue done nothing but that which of duetie wee ought to doo But now let vs sée the second offer that our Offerer maketh The second offer The Offerer Second Christ his Catholique Church being on this wise planted by the Apostles and Disciples of Christ by Bishops and Priests the successors of them had at all times a speciall care and regarde not onely of preaching Gods word but also of the preseruation of the same woord and gospell by writing of the sacred Bible and holy scriptures and did discerne and iudge them from all other writings prophane or authentique of all sortes What Church hath had from time to time the custodie of the sacred scriptures and most safely hath preserued them for the necessarie foode of Gods people and from the corruption of the aduersaries as well Iewes and Gentiles as schismatikes and heretikes of all sorts but onely the common knowne Catholiquâ— Church of Christ When therefore the learned Protestants shal be able to bring proofe to the contrarie that their priuate conuenticles and Congregations were the first bringers forth of this sacred Bible and word of God written the chiefe preseruers and defenders of the same in all times and ages from all Iewes Gentiles betikes and schismatikes then will I as I sayd before reuolt and recant Crowley In this his second Offer the Offerer vseth a fallace or disceit which in reasoning is called Petitio principij That is hee laboureth to confirme his assertion wherein there is no certenty by that wherein there is as litle or lesse certenty then in that assertion that hee holdeth And yet hee setteth a face vpon it as though nothing were or could bee more certaine then both the assertion and that whereby hée would prooue it bee His assertion is that the Church of Rome which he calleth Catholique is and euer hath bin from time to time the conseruer and kéeper of the sacred scriptures and this hee would prooue by another like assertion that is that the same Church was the first Preacher and Writer of the same scripture which hée calleth the sacred Bible and holy scriptures When the vnlearned Reader considereth this assertion hée is brought into such a maze that hee knoweth not which way to take For this Offerer would beare him in hand that the sacred Bible which containeth those bookes that are called the old Testament were neuer written before the church which he calleth Catholike did take in haÌ„d to write them Where as in very déede some of those bookes were written before the first foundation of Rome was layde Yea hee would that men should thinke that that Romish Church which hée calleth Catholique is the same that was first planted amongst the Nations of the worlde by the preaching of the gospell amongst them Which preaching began at Hierusalem sprang from thence as from a most plentifull Fountaine and was by the labour and trauell of the Apostles and Disciples of our sauiour Christ in preaching the gospell speedily spred ouer all the worlde And that it was this Romish Church that did first wryte the Gospels and other bookes of the new Testament and hath discerned of those bookes that are accounted for holy scripture and hath seuered them from all other writinges what so euer and hath preserued them from all corruption c. But such as bee learned doo know that all the bookes of the old Testament commonly called the Bible were written before the Incarnation of our sauiour Christ and therefore before any such Church as this Offerer imagineth the Romish Catholique Church to bée could haue any being Our Sauiour him selfe hath sayd Iohn 5. Iohn 5. Scrutamini scripturas c. Serch the Scriptures for you think to haue euerlasting life in them And those scriptures bée they that doo giue testimonie of mee And againe the Euangelist Luke saith thus Chapt. 24. Et incipiens a Mose Luc 24. omnibus Prophetis c. And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets hee did interpret vnto them all the scriptures which were written concerning him Saint Peter also saith thus Act. 3. Act 3. Et omnes Prophetae a Samuele c. And all the Prophets from Samuel forward euen as many as haue spoken haue made mention of these daies yea and saint Paule in that Epistle that hée directed to those Romaines that were the first Christians in Rome Rom 15. wryteth thus Quaecunque enâ—m scripta sunt c. What so euer things haue bin setdowne in writing haue bin written for our learning that through patience and consolation of the scriptures wée might conceiue hope And to Timoth. 2. Timoth. 3. 2. Timot. 3. Saint Paule saith thus Omnis scriptura diuinitus inspirata vtilis est c. Euerie scripture giuen dy diuine inspiration is profitable for teaching for reproouing for rebuking for instructing c. By all these places of scripture it appeareth plainely that the sacred Bible was written before the Romish Catholique Church had hir beginning and therefore coulde not bée first written by that Church as this Offerer laboureth to perswade that it was Yea and the bookes of the new testament were written by the Euangelists and Apostles and not by any such Bishops and Priests as this Offerer would haue vs think to bée the immediate successors of the Apostles and Disciples of our sauiour Christ and to bée the Bishops Priests of the City of Rome For when saint Paule being in prison at Rome wrote his second Epistle to Timothie there were no such Bishops or Priestes there as might worthyly bee taken for Christians For thus dooth S. Paule write In prima mea defensione nemo mihi affuit c. In my first defence 2. Timot. 4. there was not one man that
A Deliberat answere made to a rash offer which a popish Antichristian Catholique made to a learned protestant as he saieth and caused to be publyshed in printe Anno. Do. 1575. Wherein the Protestant hath plainly substantially prooued that the papists that doo nowe call themselues Catholiques are in déed Antichristian schismatiks and that the religious protestants are in deed the right Catholiques VVritten by Robert Crowley in the yeere 1587. LONDON Printed by I. Charlwood and are to bée sold at the signe of the black Beare in Paules Church yâ—rde 1588. Falts escaped in the print In the 7. leafe and in the last line of the first page in the first of the second page reade thus innocencie of life for not continue in ignorance c. In the 9. leafe and 15. line of the first page reade thus and not let vs haue peace And in the last line saue one of the second page reade thus they are all become vnprofitable In the 10. leafe and 14. line of the second page read thus traxerit In the 16. leafe and 6. line of the first page read tend for bend In the 25. leafe and 12. line of the second page read conuenticles In the 26. leafe and 18. line of the 1. page read fasts for feasts In the 27. leafe and 9. line of the 1. page read cases for causes In the 31. leafe and 12. line of the eight Offer read at all times the continuance c. In the 36. leafe 7. line of the 2. page read such for those In the 39. leafe last line saue 4. of the 1. page read Qui pridie In the 50. leafe and last line saue 6. of the 2. page read at any time In the 53. leafe and 29. line of the 1. page read which are not c. In the 55. leafe and 33. line of the 1. page read perceiue by that c. In the 72. leafe 12. line of the 1. page reade Linus In the 75. leafe and 1. line of the 1 page read or doth seeme to bee In the 77. leafe and 1. line of the 1. page this woorde them is to much In 78. leafe 4. line of the 2. page read admonition In the 80. leafe 22. line of the 1. page read they for then In the 81. leafe in the title of the 1. signe read of false prophets In the 84 and 20. line of the first page read some of them contrarie to the expresse c. ¶ To all and singular popish Recusants SVpposing that all such papists as do refuse to ioyne with vs in the profession and exercise of religion and are therefore called Recusants be of one the same minde with that popish Offerer that first wrote these Offers and did publish them in print I haue thought it a thing very meete to request the same Offerer if hee bee yet liuing and all the rest that bee of his minde to afforde mee so much fauour as to reade ouer their owne Offers and that answere that I haue made therunto I trust you will not deny mee this request for your Offerer hath in the end of euery part of his Offer vsed these words or the like prooue this then I will relent and recant not before I know that ther be many amongst you that are worshipfull wise and learned such I hope will not blemish their worship wisedome and learning by fore-iudging ought that is or shal be written in answere to any Offer that any of their minde hath or shall make and require answere thereunto I doo not require any of you to giue credit to that which I haue written before you haue tried the same and found it worthy of credit And therefore I haue set ouer the heads of the pages of this my booke this admonition First trie and then trust If you shall finde that I haue sufficiently prooued all those thinges that your Offerer requireth the protestant to prooue then I hope you wil redily performe those Offers that he hath made And if you shall finde any insufficiency in mine answeres I hope that some of the learned on your side will vse some meanes whereby I may haue knowledge of that insufficiency And in the word faith of a Christian I doo promise you that what soeuer any of you shal write touching this matter I will reade it deliberatly and without all parciall affection with earnest prayer to the almighty for the direction of his holy spirite whereby I may be stayed from straying out of the way of truth I know that there is but one way to euerlasting life I doo know that Christ only is that way if any of your sort therefore can make it plaine vnto me that your popish Catholique church dooth walke in that way then will I leaue that way wherein wee protestants doo walk and runne with you for I tell you truly that none of you can haue a greater or more earnest desire to enter with the Bridgrome Christ then I haue and as I hope shall haue to the end My pen would gladly proceede in paynting my paper with moe sentences to the like effect but I haue thought good to stay it for that I doo persuade my selfe that you doo think the time longe before you can take in hand to performe that request that I haue herein made Frare you well From my house at S. Gyles without Creplegate of London The Lord Iesus direct you in all that you shall doo Amen Ianuarie 16. An. 1587. Your well willer Robert Crovvley The deliberate aunswer that Robert Crowley a Protestant Christian hath made to that rash offer that a popish Antichristan Catholique made to a learned Protestant Imprinted in Dovvaie as he saith Anno Domini 1575. Crowley IN the yeere of our Lord. 1586. there came to my handes by what meane I doo not well knowe but by the prouidence of God I am sure a certaine booke that had béen imprinted and published in Doway in Fraunce in the yéere 1575. in the Englishe Tongue That booke is intituled A notable discourse plainely and truely discussing who are the right ministers of the Catholique Church written against Caluin and his disciples by one Maister Iohn de Albine called De Seres Archdeacon of Tolossa in Fraunce Wherunto are annexed certaine Offers made by a popish Catholique to a lerned ProtestaÌ„t c. This booke lay by me as a thing whereof I made small accompt tyll the moneth of May in the yéere .1587 When hauing by occasion more spare time then in long time before I had or could haue I tooke this booke in hand and did deliberately reade ouer both the booke and the offers I found both the booke and the offers to stuffed with coulour of pietie trueth and sinceritie that I coulde not but thinke that the hauing of this booke in secrete hath béene one great cause of the Apostacie of so many young men as haue in late yéeres fallen away from the pure profession of the
gospell and haue imbraced and professed and doo still professe most vnpure Popish religion The booke was first written by the aboue named Iohn de Albine as it may be thought either in the Latine or in the French tonge Wherefore I meane not to bestow any time in the answering of it supposing that either Beza or some other French Protestant hath already dealt therein sufficiently But because the offers séeme to be made by some English man and haue not as I thinke béene aunswered by any man I haue thought good to supply the place of that learned Protestant that the Popish Catholique ment to make the offers vnto And that the Offerer if hee be yet liuing or any fréende of his if he be departed this lyfe may not haue any cause to mislike with my dealing herein I minde to setfoorth to the view of the Reader all the words of the Offerer euen as I finde them and as I haue them to shew in his printed Coppie which I haue and doo mind to kéepe in a readinesse to shewe not abiding or dimnishing altering or changing one sentence worde sillable letter or title The Offerer beginneth thus The Offerer First seeing it cannot bee denied that our sauiour Christ before his departure and ascension did commit the charge and gouernment of his Church the testimony of his worde the truth of his gospell the ministration of his Sacraments to his Apostles and Disciples and that not only for them selues but to their successors Bishops and Priests and to none other saying only to them Euntes docete omnes gentes Math. 28. Marc. 16. Goe yee and teach all people and nations of the world baptizing them in the name of the father and of the sonne and of the holy ghoste teaching them to obserue and keepe all things which I haue commaunded you Further the Apostle Saint Paule being at Miletum in executing of his charge gouernment gaue this admonition to the Bishops and Priestes there assembled before him saying Attēdite vobis et vniuer so gregi Act. 20. Take heed vnto your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in the which the holy ghost hath ordayned you Bishops Regere ecclesiam Dei To gouerne the Church of God And in the thirteenth Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrews hee dooth commaunded all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and priestes saying Heb. 13. Obedite praepositis vestris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you for they doo watch as men that shall render accomptes for your soules Seeing that by the testimonies before alleadged it can not bee denyed but that the charge and gouernment of Chryst his Church the preaching of his doctrine the admninistration of his Sacramentes was by him committed to his Apostles and Dysciples and to all Byshoppes and Priestes as Successours of them to plante Chrystian fayth and Religion in his Catholique Church vniuersally throughout all Nations Coastes and Quarters of the world Seeing this is by the playnnesse of the sayd testimonies of such an vndoubted truth that it cannot bee denyed now let the learned protestant affirming princes to bee the supreme heades of the Church eyther shew by some such other like playne testymonies of the Scriptures that our Sauiour Chryst did commit the chyefe charge and supreme gouernement of his Church to Emperours Kings Queenes and Princes to plant Christian fayth and Religion in the same or that any one of Chryst his Apostles or Disciples did conuert any people Lande or Countrey from their Idolatrie and Ethnike kinde of liuing to Christian faith and Religion by preaching the doctrine of the Protestants as of onely faith to iustifie the contempt of good workes and that they be all vncleane in sight of GOD the deniall of free will of the real presence of Christes body in the holy Eucharist of the Sacrifice of the most blessed Masse the abolishing Christ his Sacramentes and of all grace and goodnesse by them conferred vnto vs then I shall yeelde and recant and not before Thus farre the first part of the Offer Crowley This Offerer hath deuided this offer of his into 22. parts adding to the last part six certaine and assured signes and tokens of false Prophets Heretickes Schismatickes This diuision I meane to follow in mine answer To this first part therfore I say thus maister Offerer I cōfesse that our Sauiour Christ dyd as you haue sayd committe the charge and gouernement of his Church the testimonye of his worde the trueth of his Gospell and the ministration of his Sacramentes to his Apostles and Scholers and to theyr successors But not to such successours onely as you do name that is to Bishops and Préestes onely and to none other For S. Paule in the 12. Chapter of his first Epistle to the Corinthians and in the 4. to the Ephesians writing of the same matter sayth thus Et ipse dedit quosdam quidem Apostolos Eph 4. quosdam autem Prophetas alios vero Euangelistas alios autem Pastores Doctores And he hath giuen some Apostles or Messengers and some Prophettes and other some Euangelistes and some others Pastors and teachers And againe in the 12. of the first to the Corinthians hee writeth thus 1 Cor 12. Et quosdam posuit Deus in Ecclesia primum Apostolos secundo Prophetas tertio Doctores deinde virtutes exinde gratias curationum opitulationes gubernationes genera linguarum God hath place in his Church certaine degrees of men first Apostles secondly Prophets thirdly teachers then powers after that giftes of healings helpes gouernements kindes of tongues Least you should quarell about the translating of S. Paules wordes out of the Gréeke I haue set them downe as I finde them in that translation that your Tridentine councell hath allowed of But I pray you good M. Offerer what meant S. Paule that in the rehearsall of those sundry degrées of men that God hath placed in his Church he would make no mentiion at al of your Bishops and Préestes to whom onely as to the onely successours of his Apostles and Disciples Christ spake if you haue written truely when he sayd thus Math. 28 Euntes docete omnes gentes Goe ye and teach all nations of the worlde c. Without all doubt S. Paule dyd know and so doo wée that God dyd neuer place in his Church or appoint to succéede his Apostles and Disciples any such Bishops and Préestes as you meane of That is Lording and loitring Bishops exercising dominion ouer the peoples that are alotted vnto them and sawsie sacrificing Préests which presume to occupie the place of Christ himselfe and to execute his office in offering sacrifice for the sinnes of the people S. Peter disaloweth the one 1. Pet. 5. and S. Paule the other Hebr. 10. Hebr 1◠1 Peter ◠Yea if our
Sauiour Christ dyd speake only to such Bishops and Préests as you doo appoint to be the successours of the Apostles and disciples of Christ when he sayd Euntes c. Goe and teach all nations of the worlde c. Howe hath that his commaundement béene or howe is it executed sith they commonly neither doo nor can teache those thinges that our Sauiour commaunded his Apostles and scholers to teach and to doo The successors of the Apostles and scholers of our Sauiour Christ to whome those wordes were at the first and be still spoken must bee such as God hath dooth and shall make méete to doo his message to men of all sortes to foreshewe vnto them by the Scriptures what hangeth ouer theyr heades if they will not regarde the message to comfort them with the assurance of the performaunce of the swéet promises which God hath made in the blood of his sonne Christ Iesus to foster féede and nourishe them with the foode of his heauenly worde and to teach and instruct them in the way of the trueth so that they may be able to discerne betwéene the broad way that leadeth to destruction and that narrowe way that leadeth to lyfe euerlasting and to continue walking in that way euen to the ende of their life in this transitorie state Thus much doo those wordes signifie which I haue cited out of the fourth Chapter of S. Paules Epistle to the Ephesians And in the wordes that I haue cited out of the 12. Chapter of the first to Corinth Saint Paule hath added that these wordes of our Sauiour Christ were spoken to them also whom God hath dooth or shall make mighty endueinge them with power from aboue making them able to stande against and to withstand yea and vanquishe the ghostly enimies that is the deuill the world and the fleshe to cure sicknesses and diseases to succour helpe and comfort the weake and féeble to gouerne the simple and to vnderstand and speake diuers languages All this may be vnderstanded in these wordes of S. Paule God hath placed in his Church certaine degrées of men first Apostles secondly prophets thirdly teachers after that powers after that giftes of healing helpings gouernementes and diuersities of tongues So that these words go and teach all nations c. Were spoken first to the Apostles and Scholers of our Sauiour Christ and then to all such their successours as God hath dooth or shall make méete any way to teach those thinges that he hath commaunded to be taught practised But now M. Offerer hath found that S. Paule being at Miletum hath admonished the Bishops Priestes that were assembled before him there saying AtteÌ„dite vobis c. Take héede to your selues and vnto the whole flocke of Christ in which the holy Ghost hath ordained you Bishops Act. 10. Regere Ecclesiam Dei. To gouerne the Church of God And againe in the 13. Chapter of his Epistle to the Hebrewes Saint Paule dooth commaund all other sortes of men without exception of Emperours Kings Quéenes and Princes to obay their Bishops and Préestes saying Obedite praepositis vostris subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilant quasi rationem pro animabus vestris reddituri Obey your Prelates and doo what they appoint you to do for they doo watch as men that shall render an account for your soules Héere is subtile Sophistrie in the stéede of probable reasoning and profound Diuinity These testimonies bée so plaine that it can not be denied but that as the charge gouernement of Christes Church c. was committed to Christs Apostles and Disciples so the same is committed to Popish Bishops and Préestes as to their successors But I pray you good M. Offerer let vs consider of these two places that you haue cited Saint Luke reporting the Actes or déedes of the Apostles sayth that Saint Paule hasting towardes Ierusalem would spend no time in Asia and therefore determining to passe by Ephesus sent messengers thether to require the Elders of the congregation to repayre vnto him being then in the Iland Milâ—tâ— which is now called Mâ—lâ—a These Elders you doo name Bishops and Préestes But the Gréeke worde that S. Luke vseth there can not by any meanes signifie eyther a Bishoppe or Préest of that sorte that you speake of For 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 dooth signifie one that is elder or more auncient in yéeres or more honorable then they be amongst whom he liueth And such were they that commonly were chosen in those dayes to be teachers instructours and gouernours in the congregations or Churches of Christians and therefore they were called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Obseruers watchmen searchers such as had the ouersight of things committed to them But your Bishops and Préestes most bee such as the Grecians doo call by the name of 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 That is a Préest that offereth sacrifices But héere I will make you one offer M. Offerer which shal be thus If you can finde in any of the Bookes of the newe Testament that eyther our Sauiour Christ speaking of the ministers of the new Testament or any of the Apostles writing of the seuerall sortes of ministers that our Sauiour Christ hath ordayned to serue or minister in his Churche haue vsed eyther of these Gréeke woordes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 or 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which doo signifie a sacrificing Preest then will I recante the Protestants doctrine and subscribe to your Papisticall doctrine and not before In the place that you haue cited out of the 20. Chapter of the Acts of the Apostles S. Paule calleth the ministers of Ephesus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is watch men or ouerséers appointed by the holy Ghost 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to gouerne the Church of God in such sorte as a shéepheard dooth gouerne and féede his flocke but not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to exercise lordlike authority ouer them as your meaning must néedes bée that your Bishoppes and Préestes should For you say that S. Paule dooth commaund all other sorts of men without exception c. To obay their Bishops and Préestes saying Obedite c. Obay your prelates c. And here I must néedes note your corrupt manner of handling of this place of S. Paule He himselfe dooth beséech those Hebrewes that he worte vnto to suffer or to take in good part that short exhortation that he gaue them but you say that hee commaunded them yea though they were Emperours Kings Quéenes or Princes to obaye theyr Prelates and to doo what they appoint In the Latine you cite the wordes Hebr 13. as they are in the vulgare translation allowed in the Tridentine councell Obedite c. It pleaseth you to set downe for Praepositis Prelates minding as it séemeth to make vs beléeue that such Prelates as you call Bishops and Préests must by S Paules commaundement be so obeyed of all Emperours Kings Quéenes and Princes and so by
assisted mee but all men left mee alone God graunt it bee not layde to their charge c. If this Offerer his fellowes haue any eyes to sée they may sée that when the Apostle Paule being in prison in Rome did write this Epistle to Timoth. the Bishops and priests that then were in Rome were scarce worthy the name of Christians bicause they durst not stand to the profession of Christian Religion as S. Paule did but left him all alone betraying the Christian cause as much as in them lay Yea and hereof it may bée probably gathered that Peter was not then at Rome and consequently that hee was not Bishop of Rome for the space of xxv yéeres togither as the Romish Catholiques doo affirme that hee was Yea rather it may bée thought that hee neuer was Bishop of Rome for this Epistle was written in Rome the 13. yeere of the raigne of Nero which was the 35. yeere after saint Paule was conuerted to Christ But if hee were then Bishop of Rome hée was at that time either fled from Rome fearing the persecution or els being in that Citie hée durst not shew him selfe to bée of one minde with Paule and so by his example the rest that then were Christians in Rome withdrew them selues from Paule and left him all alone Thirteene yeeres before this the Apostle Paule had written to the Romaines being then at Corinth in the last yeere of the raigne of Claudius the Emperour And as it appeareth in the first Chapter of that Epistle the fame of that Church was such at that time that saint Paule wrote thus Primum quidem gratias ago Deo meo Rom. 1 per Iesum Christum pro omnibus vobis quia fides vestra annuntiatur in vniuerso mundo First of all I giue thankes to my God thorough Iesus Christ on the behalfe of you all for that your faith is declared through out the whole world The Church therefore or Congregation of Christians that then were in Rome were of the best sort of Christians And bicause that Citie was then the chiefe City that then was in the world therefore the fame of their faith was spred ouer all the world But yet as appeareth by that which is before alleaged they had their faults and infirmities which were seene in them more at one time then at another At the first when they receiued the doctrine of the gospell they were earnest professors and followers of the same as commonly men haue bin in our daies and are still but when persecution began to arise for the professing thereof they began to shew them selues to bee like that seede that being sowne fell in stony ground and yet being againe moystened with that dew of Gods grace which fell from aboue they tooke déepe roote and so became more fruitfull in the ende For many of that age gaue their liues for the testimony of the truth and were Martirs or witnesses of Iesus Christ as in the Church Histories dooth appeere But that these were the writers of the Scriptures appeareth not in any Histories for they were written before some by the Prophets and some by the Apostles and such bookes as were written after the time wherein the other Apostles liued were written by the Apostle Iohn which liued after all the rest As touching the especiall care that you say the Catholique Church hath from time to time had not only of preaching the word but also of preseruing the same c all learned Protestants doo know that no man could haue greater care to preach the woord to discerne the bookes of holy scripture from prophane writings and to preserue them from the corruption of the aduersaries then they that in the time of the tenne first persecutions professed the Catholique religion And amongst those Catholiques none were more forwarde therein then were they which then were dwelling in the City of Rome But what maketh this for proofe that the Romish Church hath alwaies bin and is still the keeper and preseruer of the scriptures The first Romish Church which was Catholique preached the gospell as the Apostles and Disciples of Christ had doone but that Romish church that now is and hath bin for the space of these last thousand yéeres almost being Antichristian dooth and hath all this while preached mens traditions is to bee noted with that saying that the Prophet Esay vsed in reprehending the Leuiticall Priestes of his time Esay 29. Esay 29. Cited by our sauiour Christ Math. 15. Math. 15. Populus hic labijs me honorat c. This people honour mee with their lips they draw nighe vnto mée with their mouth but their heart is farre from mée In vaine doo they worship mée in teaching the doctrines and commaundements of men c. The first Romish Church vsed the Sacraments that Christ had instituted religiously and to that end that our sauiour Christ had instituted them for but that Romishe Church which you call Catholique hath for the space of these 1000. yeeres almost and dooth still abuse those Sacraments namely Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord commonly called the Sacrament of the body and blood of our sauiour Christ For that Church dooth minister that sacrament to Churches to Belles and to Ships that saile on the seas and of the other sacrament they make an Idole lifting it vp ouer their heads to bee worshipped setting it vpon their high alter or hanging it ouer the same burning incense before it and vsing iestures of diuine honour before it and carying it abroade in pompous maner compelling the people to doo diuine honour to it Yea they offer it vp to God as a sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quick the dead and in tempests of weather and in coniurations they make it a bug to feare the diuell withall The first Catholique Church in their exercise of Religion did vse as few Ceremonies as might bee for they knew that our sauiour Christ had broken downe that midle walle or particion which was the lawe of Ceremonies contayned in the lawe written and had through the flesh bin the occasion that discord whereby the nations of the worlde were so seuered from the people of Israell that they could neuer ioyne with them in one religion till our sauiour Christ had made it voyde and made of both the people 's but one new man making peace that he might reconcile both in one body And Ephe. 2. Ephe. 2. But your Romish Catholique Church hath reedified a new middle walle or particion of a law of Ceremonies not contayned in the law written but diuised by men And that particion they doo still maintaine and vphold enforcing all men that will beare the name of Christ and bée called Christians to allow of and to vse those Ceremonies and all such as doo refuse those Ceremonies they doo excommunicate and deliuer to the secular powre to bée consumed to ashes with fire or otherwise to bée tormented onely bicause they refuse to vse
those Ceremonies To bée briefe the first Catholique church did acknowledge none to bée her vniuersall head but Christ Iâ—sus onely and shée submitted her selfe to bee gouerned in matters of faith by his spirite which spirite did in déede gouerne hir in the vnderstanding of the scriptures which are the rule of Christian Religion And in ciuill gouernement shee submitted herselfe to Princes and other Potentats acknowledging that God hath giuen vnto them the power of the sword and hath made them his reuengers vpon earth coÌ„maunding them to vse that power in defending innocents and in punishing of such as doo transgresse his lawes But your Romish Catholique church must haue a Pope to bee hir vniuersall head vnder the name of Christes vicar generall and hee must haue absolute power vpon earth diriued from the Apostle Peter that neuer tooke vpon him selfe any such power but willed all Christians to submit themselues to all estates of men euen for the Lord Iesus sake Yea hee willed them to honour all men to loue brotherly fellowship to feare God and to honour the king 1. Peter 2. 1. Peter 2. But your Pope must haue power ouer all men euen ouer Princes to whom Peter submitted him selfe and willed al christians to doo the like Yea hée must haue power to depose all such Princes as will not bow to him and bee his Executioners in executing the paines of death vpon all such as it pleaseth him to take for Heretikes Such Princes dooth your Pope take vpon him to depose to depriue them of all princely dignitie to set vp in their place such as will submit them selues vnto him become his sworne vassalles And that he may the more easily bring these things to passe hée absolueth all the subiects of such Princes from their dutifull oth of obedience which they haue dutifully taken to those their leage and naturall Princes Yea as late and daily practises doo teach they spare not to promise the kingdome of God to such subiects as will most vndutifully most vnnaturally murder not onely their naturall countrimen but also their naturall Princes By these differences it apreareth how great the difference is betwixt the first Romish church which was in déede Catholique and yours which you call catholique but is in déede Cacolike But now you conclude that if the learned Protestant can prooue that the priuate conuenticles congregations of the Protestants were the first bringers foorth of the sacred Bible and written woord of God the chiefe preseruers and defenders of the same in all times and ages from all Iewes Gentiles Heretikes and schismatiks then you wil reuolt and recant as you haue saide before To this I say on the behalfe of the learned Protestant that neither the Catholique church nor any other congregations haue bin the first bringers foorth of the sacred Bible c. For those bookes which are called the Bible were brought foorth and written before our sauiour Christ sayd thus to the Iewes Scrutamini scripturas c. Ioh. 5. Ioh. 5. Serch the scriptures c. And as for the preseruing and defending of them from Iewes Gentiles c. I say that it hath not bin the worke of man but of God him selfe who is the only Author of the same Apocal. 6. In the sixt chapter of saint Iohns Reuelations it is written that when the third seale of that booke which was sealed with seuen seales was opened there was a voyce which came from the midst of the foure beasts which saide to him that sate vpon the blacke horse had a balaunce in his hand Wine and oyle see thou doo not hurt In the iudgment of all learned interpreters wine and oyle doo in that place signifie the scriptures which God would not suffer to bee hurt by any mans interpretation no not in the time of most déepe Ignorance The Iewes could neuer corrupt the text of the Canonicall scriptures although they lacked no good will to haue corrupted them Neither could your Popish catholiques at any time corrupt those scripcures for God hath reserued a Remnant of the Iewes with whom those scriptures are and alwaies haue bin had in such estimation and reuerence that they would neuer leaue them to any that would corrupt them and this hath God wrought by them vsing them as his instruments therein In like manner the Grecians haue bin his instruments in kéeping the Gréeke text both of the olde and newe testament from all manner of Corruption in all partes thereof that doo concerne any parte of the substance of our Religion so that though your Popish Catholiques would as no doubt they are willing enough yet they can not corrupt either the Hebrew or Gréeke text Thus if you will you may sée maister Offerer that God alone by such meanes as hée hath dooth and will vse hath bin the bringer foorth of the sacred Bible and other holy scriptures for the holy men of God did speake as the holy spirite of God did mooue them to speake 2. Pet. 1. 2. Peter 1. And it is hée that hath vsed his good meanes both in discerning of the holy writings from the prophane and also in preseruing and defending of them from all maner corruption Wherefore if you minde to bée as good as your woord you must reuolt and recant The third Offer The Offerer Third Shew mee good reason why yee Protestants doo belieue our Catholique Church enforming and telling you this to bee the woord of God written the true Bible and sacred scriptures and doo refuse to credit hir in the true sense and vnderstanding of the same Scripture shee being vndoubtedly led with the spirite of God in them both For if the Catholique Church had the spirit of God in discerning and iudging the true Scriptures of God from the rest not Scriptures why should not wee belieue that same Catholique church gouerned and led by the same spyrite in giuing the true sense meaning and vnderstanding of the Scriptures When yee shal be able to render a sufficient reason of the one and not of the other I shall then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley There is no reason why wée should shewe you good reason why wée doo that thing which none of vs either haue done doo or minde to doo In beliuing that the Bible and scriptures that wee haue is the true Bible and scripture wée doo as the people of Sichar did Iohn the fourth chapter They said to the woman that told them of Iesus Iam non propter tuam orationem credimus c. Iohn 4. Now doo wée belieue not bicause of the tale that thou hast told vs for wee our selues haue heard and doo know that this is very Christ the sauiour of the world Euen so wee confesse that when wee were amongst you wée heard you talke of a Bible scriptures wée were desirous to sée them but you kept them from vs by all the meanes that you coulde deuise but at the
last by Gods mercifull prouidence wée gate a sight of them and had them translated into such languages as wee our selues doo vnderstand But this was full sore against your willes as by Hystories it dooth appeere Wee haue therefore no cause to thanke you for them but wée doo giue most heartie continuall thanks to our heauenly father that hath prouided them for vs and hath giuen the vse of them to vs. Yea and finding in the first chapter of S. Iames Epistle Iacob 1. that if any man lack wisdome hee must aske it of God who giueth to all men indifferently and dooth not vpbrayde any man with his giftes wée haue and doo still begge of God his holy Spirite to direct vs both in the discerning of the Bookes of the Scriptures and in the finding out of the true sense of the same And wee doo finde the saying of our Sauiour Christ written by Saint Luke chapter 11. very true Luc 11. Si vos cum sitis mali nostis c. If you being euill doo know how to giue good giftes to your children how much more shall your heauenly Father giue the holy Spirite to them that craue it of him wee haue craued that holy spirite and doo still craue it of our heauenly Father Wee haue receyued it and doo still receiue it in some measure Wée are thereby made able to iudge the spirits and according to the counsell of S. Iohns first Epistle 1 Iohn 4. and fourth chapter Wée belieue not euery spirite but wée doo trie the spirites And finding that the holy spirite of God did mooue them that first wrote the bookes of the Bible to write as they did write therefore wée doo thankfully receiue those bookes as holy scripture and doo reuerendly vse them as a Lanterne to our feete and a light vnto our pathes After this maner did the Catholique men that haue liued before vs endeuor to know the canonicall Scriptures from such as are pro haue And as S. Augustine writeth vpon the last Psalme August in Psalm 150. Tom 5. Tom. 8. Sunt etiam qui vniuersas omnino scripturas canonicas vnum librum vocent quod valde mirabili diuina vnitate concordent There bée some men also saith S. Augustine that doo name all the canonicall scriptures but one booke bicause they doo agree in a very merueilous and heauenly vnity S. Augustine in his second booke of christian Doctrine August de doct Christ lib. 2. Ca. 5. writeth thus Cap. 8. Totus autem canon scripturarum in quo istam considerationem versandam dicimus his libris continetur In déede the whole canon of the Scriptures wherein wee doo affirme this consideration is to bee vsed is conteined in these bookes And then hée maketh rehersall of those 44. bookes which are contained in that booke which both you and wée doo call the holy Bible concluding thus His quadraginta quatuor libris veteris testamenti terminatur authoritas In these foure and forty bookes is the authority of the olde testament ended Then hée maketh rehersall of the bookes called the New testament which are in number 27. and they are the same that wee haue in our bookes called the New testaments both in gréeke in latine Of al these bookes togither which are in number 71. S. Austen writeth thus In his omnibus libris timentes Deum pietate mansueti quaerunt volūtatem Dei In all these bookes they that feare God are by godlines made modest doo séeke for the will pleasure of God And in the beginning of this 8. chap. of this second booke of christian Doctrine S. Austen dooth instruct euery christian after this maner Erit igitur diuinarum scripturarum solertissimus indagator qui primo totas legerit notasque habuerit si non dum intellectu iam tamen lectione duntaxat eas quae appellantur canonicae He therefore shal be the wisest searcher of the holy scriptures which will first read them through and will haue a perfect knowledge of them although not in vnderstanding as yet but yet already in reading those scriptures onely which are called Canonicall And going forward in this instruction hée saith thus Jn Canonicis autem scripturis Ecclesiarum catholicarum quam plurimum authoritatem sequatur inter quas sane illae sunt quae Apostolicas sedes habere Epistolas accipere meruerunt Let him as much as may bée follow the authority of the Catholike churches in the canonicall scriptures amōgst which churches vndoubtedly those churches are which haue deserued to haue Apostolical seates to receiue Epistles By these woords of S. Augustine it appeareth what was ment in S. Augustins time by these words the Catholique church the canicall scriptures The scriptures were called canonicall that doo containe the rule of faith of maners And the churches were planted by the preaching of the doctrine amongst which those were accounted for the chiefe that had bin planted by the Apostles them selues had had some one of the Apostles resiant amongst them for a time and therefore the places were called Apostolicall seates And these were the congregations that the Apostle Paule did direct his Epistles vnto And heere I doo by the way note that as Rome was Sedes Apostolicae an Apostolike seate so was Corinth Galatia Ephessus Colossa Philippos Thessalonica Wherefore these later were of like authority with the first S. Austen therefore addeth further and saith thus Tenebit igitur hunc modum in scripturis canonicis vt eas quae ab omnibus accipiuntur Ecclesijs catholicis praeponat eis quas quaedā non accipiunt Let him therfore that is a searcher of the scriptures kéepe this meesure in the canonicall Scriptures that hee prefer those scriptures that be receiued of al Catholike churches before those scriptures which certaine Catholike churches doo not receiue By all these words of S. Austen written in the 8. chap. of his second booke De christiana doctrina it appeareth manifestly that the church of Rome although it were then Catholique accounted so to be yet it was not as now you doo account it to be the onely Catholique church of Christ For the other Churches which had bin Apostolike seates had receiued Epistles were Catholique as well as the church of Rome was yea and that all those churches were but particuler churches and none of them vniuersall but members of that vniuersall Church which consisteth of all the particuler churches that are haue bin or shal be vpon earth Yea and it appeareth that some of those Catholique churches did not receiue as canonicall all those bookes that are contained in the Bible although they did in some sorte account them canonicall as containing rules necessary for maners though not for faith In Tom. 4. Tom. 4. of S. Hieroms works it appeareth the Ruffinus a learned Priest and such a one as S. Hierome liked well of liuing about 400. yéeres after Christes ascention did not alow for
canonicall mo bookes then these In the olde testament saith hée the fiue bookes of Moses that is Genesis Exodus Leuiticus Numbers Deuteronomium After these Iesus Naue of the Iudges togither with Ruth After these foure bookes of the raignes of kings which the Hebrews doo account but two Paralipomenon which is called the booke of dayes and two of Esdras which they doo receaue each by it selfe and the booke of Hester And of the Prophets Esaie Ieremie Ezechiell Daniell bisides these one booke of the xii Prophets Iob also and the Psalmes of Dauid are each of them one booke Salomon also hath giuen vnto the churches thrée bookes the Prouerbs Ecclesiastes and Cantica canticorum In these bookes haue the fathers shut vp the number of the bookes of the old testamēt And of the New testament there are foure Gospelles of Mathew Marke Luke and Iohn The Acts of the Apostles which Luke dooth describe Fouretéene Epistles of Paule the Apostle of Peter the Apostle two of Iames the brother of the Lord an Apostle one Epistle of Iudas one of Iohn thrée and the Apocalyps of Iohn These bée the volumes which the fathers haue shut vp within the canon whereof the father would that the assertions of our faith should consist Notwithstanding it is néedefull to bée knowne that there be other bookes also which are not canonicall but our auncestors haue called them Ecclesiastical That is to say wisdome which is said to bée Salomons And another Wisdome which is said to bée of the sonne of Sirach which is by the Latinists named by the same generall name Ecclesiasticus By which name not the author of the booke but the qualitie of the scripture is named And of the same Order is the booke of Tobias Iudith and the bookes of Machabies Thus far Ruffinus in his creede or confession of beliefe set foorth by saint Hierome And not many liues after this hée writeth thus These volumes haue the fathers deliuered vnto vs which as I haue said it hath séemed to mée méete to note out for the instruction of such as doo take vpon them the first rudimēts of the church of faith that they may know out of what fountaines the cups of the woord of God must bée drawne Now M. Offerer I pray you confer these words of Ruffinus with that decrée that was made by your fathers of the Tridentine councel in their 4. Session wherein they allow for canonicall all those bookes that haue bin are cōtained in that booke which is cōmonly called the Bible With them the bookes of Tobias Hester Iudith Wisdome Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Machabies are of as great authoritie as the rest and they doo denounce accursed all such as doo not or shall not receiue for canonicall all those books and euery part of them making no diffrence betwixt these and the other which Ruffinus hath said the fathers haue deliuered vnto vs as fountaines out of which the cups of the word of God must be drawn Let your fathers therfore denounce accursed this Ruffinus and those fathers that he speaketh of for they be of one minde with vs. Let them accursse S. Hierome that hath set foorth this Créede of Ruffinus as a sound confession of the Christian faith Let them excōmunicate S. Gregorie Grego Morali in 29. lib. Cap. 19. Hiero. in praefacio prou that in the 19. of his morall exposition of the 29. Chapter of Iob dooth confesse that the first booke of the Machabies is not canonicall Yea let them accursse S. Hierome as black as a pot for that in his preface to the prouerbes of Salomon he saith thus The church dooth read the bookes of Iudith Tobie the Machabies for th'edification of the people but not to confirme the authority of the doctrines of the Church This Hierome such other were the fathers the Ruffinus saith haue deliuered to vs the other bookes of the Bible not these to bee fountaines for vs to draw the cups of Gods word out of them And with these would wée rather bée accursed then blessed with your popish Catholique fathers in your Tridentine counsell You frame an argument after this maner If the Catholique church had the true spirite of God in discerning iudging the true scriptures of God from the rest not scriptures why should not we belieue the same Catholike church gouerned led by the same spirit in giuing the true sence meaning vnderstanding of the scriptures To this I answere That the romish Catholique church which now is hath continued for the space almost of a thousand yéeres is not neither hath bin led by the true spirit of God either in discerning or iudging the true scriptures of God from the rest c. Nor yet in giuing the true sence c but it hath bin and is still led by the spirite of Antichrist And that neuer more apparantly then at the Tridentyne counsell as by the canons of the same counsell dooth most manifestly appéere to as many as with indifferent iudgement can and will reade them Thus haue I shewed you sufficient reasons whereby you might bée mooued to yeelde and ioyne with vs in religion and no longer to depend vpon the iudgement of that Antichristian church which you call Catholique for that you may sée if you bee not altogither blinded that it is not the true spirite of God that hath and dooth leade your Catholique church but in déede the false spirite of Antichrist The fourth Offer Offerer Fourth Let the Protestants make sufficient proofe by auncient writers of the Ecclesiastiall histories what church it is that al these fifteene hundreth yeeres past hath continued through out firme and stedfast while all other conuenticles and cōgregations as well of Arians as of the Nestorian Maniches Nouatians Vigilians Iouinians and the rest of Heretikes of all sortes haue decayed bin conuinced and ouerthrowne and that by any other Church then by the common knowne Catholique church of Christ and I shall then yeelde and recant and not before Crowley It is very true that the knowne Catholike church hath bin and still is as for these fiftéene hundreth yéeres last past it hath bin the meane that God hath vsed in the conuinsing ouerthrowing of Arians Nestorians and the rest of the Heretikes that you speake of It is most true also that the same Catholike church hath all this time continued firme and stedfast but how can you prooue that your popish Catholike church is that knowne Catholike church of Christ that you speake of Héerein lieth the difficulty It is not enough for you to say that your romish church is the Catholike church but you must prooue it Your antiquity your vniuersality your vnity with your continuall succession of Bishops will not serue your turne Your antiquity is not so auncient as ours by 4600. yéeres almost For ours began in Adam hath continued euer since yours began to florish in the daies of Phocas the
eyther admit any to be of the fellewship of Christians or by excommunication cut of any man from that body of Christ but onely that knowen Catholique church of Christ which is builed vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Iesus Christ being the head cornerstone You doo therefore offer vs great iniurie in that you require vs to prooue that which we dyd neuer affirme But I sée what stone it is that the Offerer dooth so often stumble at He is perswaded that there can be no knowen Catholique Church of Christ but that Romishe Church whereof he himselfe is a member which is now manifestly knowen to be an Antichristian congregation and not the knowen Catholique Church of Christ as the Offerer and hys fellowes would beare vs in hand that it is The knowen Catholique Church of Christ hath alwayes vsed to execute ecclesiasticall censures vpon such as haue béene offensiue in lyfe and manners and vpon such as haue béene disturbers of the common peace of the Church and so doo we at this day without respect of any mans person so farre foorth as in dutifull obedience to such as God hath made our gouernour we may But to excommunicate and depose Princes we haue not learned of S. Paule nor of the Fathers that lyued in the first sixe hundered yéeres after the ascention of our Sauiour Christ Your bragge of 1500. yéeres continuance in the executing of your discipline must bee cut shorter by 600. yéeres for your Catholique Antichristian Church hath not floryshed in her pride full one thousand yéeres as yet neither haue you executed your tirannous discipline in such sorte as you would séeme to haue doone in that tyme of your tirannous raigne But whensoeuer you tooke in hand to execute any discipline you had and so yée haue still a speciall regarde to your owne ease and commoditie and to the aduanceing and vpholding of your owne honour and dignity Your owne Histories are full of the reportes of your corrupt and partiall dealinges in that behalfe It is God himselfe that hath prescribed an order of discipline and hath in all tymes and ages committed the execution thereof to hys Church which hath had continaunce euen from the beginning of the world This discipline was first engrauen in the hartes of men and after that in tables of stone and last of all in bookes that by those outwarde meanes the discipline grauen in the hart might be daily refreshed but euen the best men that haue béene in Authority in the Church and haue had the execution of thys discipline haue béene to slacke in that he halfe as by histories it appeareth No maruaile therfore though to great slacknes in the execution of this discipline be found in that Church which you and your sorte doo account to be Schismaticall but is in déede Catholique and that knowen Catholique Church from which your Antechristian Church is fallen That discipline that you make so great a reckoning of is your cannon lawe I am sure which your Popes haue patched together since they gate the vpper hand and enforced Princes to doo them seruice and to kysse their féete That discipline you execute with Precipimus firmiter iniungendo mandamus Wee charge you say you and with firme iniūction we commaund you And what is it that you doo thus commaund to be doone That such a man or such a woman as hath not appeared in your courte or hath refused to pay such fées as your officers requyre or that hath failed in dooing some acte that by that lawe they are bound to doo be denounced excommunicated sub pena iuris Vnder payne of hauing the penalty of the Lawe executed vppon that minister that wyll not denounce such a one excommunicated But if a whore or a whoremonger a drunkarde or a blasphemer of God an Vsurer or a simmoniacke or any other wicked person shal be conuented before your ecclesiasticall iudge if hys pursse be waightie and his hande readie to reache out money in paying double fées and in giuing to such vses as you cal Godly so that you may haue the disposing therof then this party must be receiued as a communicant amongest Christians although it doo appeare manyfestly that there is neyther amendment of lyfe nor hope of repentaunce shewed any way And would God that our execution of discipline were more frée from this corruption then it is But that wyll not be so long as so many of your minde may be suffered to bée in offyce vnder them that haue the execution of discipline I thinke you doo now sée that the right dscipline hath not béene prouided and made by men neither of your sorte nor of ours but by God himselfe And that there hath béen and is still as great yea greater corruption vsed in the executing of discipline amongst you as is or hath béene amongst vs. Yea and that your Church which is Antichristian hath not had the continuance of 1500. yéeres in that glory that now it dooth claime vnto it selfe Wherfore I doo require you now to recant according to promise although you would not before The seauenth Offer Offerer Seauenth Let me knowe of the Protestantes what Church hath brought forth for the space of these fifteene hundered yeeres past as Children begotten of her owne wombe so many thousandes of blessed Martyrs of stoute and bolde confessers of pure and innocent virgins and of other holy Saintes of all sortes and so acknowledged by eyther party And if it shal in fine fall out that any one of them was of the Protestantes congregation fayth or beleefe whiles they liued heere and not of the common knowen fayth and religion of the Catholique Church of Christ or that they were approoued and canonized for Saintes when they were dead by the Protestantes congregation not onely by the Catholique Church of Christ I shall then submit and recant and not before Crowley It séemeth that M. Offerer hath conceiued a wrong opinion of vs Protestantes He séemeth to be perswaded that none of vs haue seene the Histories of the Church Otherwise he had béene too too madde to make this large Offer For any Protestant that hath reade any thing of the Ecclesiasticall Histories may easily enforce him eyther to flie from his promisse or else to submitte himselfe and recant If any one sayth hée amongst the thousandes of the blessed Martyrs c. Shal be found to haue béene of the Protestantes fayth and religion c. Then he wyll submit hymselfe and recant I am sure of it that amongst the thousands that suffered Martirdome within the space of the first six hundereth yeres after Christs ascention he can not name one that was not whiles he liued of the same faith religion that we be of now Al we do beleue al the articles of the common tréed so did they we do beléeue that as there is but one God so there is but one mediatour betwixt God man and that the same is the man Christ Iesus
vpon hir the title of Antichrist which was in the dayes of Phocas the Emperor at whose hands Bonifacius obtained the prophane title of vniuersall bishop whereof Gregorie the first surnamed the great writeth thus Grego Epi. 66. Epist 66. ad Mauricium imperatorem Sed absit a cordibus christianorum nomen istud blasphemiae in quo omnium sacerdotum honor adimitur dum ab vno sibi dâ—mâ—nter arrogatur But let this name of blasphemie bee far from christian hearts wherein the honor of all Priests is taken away whils one Priest dooth like a mad man arrogate the same vnto him selfe And againe Episto 68. Grego Epi. 68. Ad Iohn Episc Constantinopol Tu quid Christo vniuersalis scilicet Ecclesiae capiti in extremi iudicij es dicturus examine qui cuncta eius membra tibimet conaris vniuersalis appellatione supponere What wilt thou say vnto Christ that is to the head of the vniuersall Church saith Gregorie to Iohn bishop of Constantinople in the triall of the last iudgement which doost by the name of vniuersall goe about to make subiect vnto thy selfe all his members who can write or speake more plainely in this matter then this Gregorie hath written both to Mauricius the Emperour and to Iohn Bishop of Constantinople I hope therefore you will take this for a stayed certaine tale and bée therewith satisfied Considering that after Constantine the first christened Emperor had endued the Church with some possessions and so poysoned the Church as by a voice that was heard from heauen it was signified which voice vttered this speach Hodie datum est venenum in Ecclesiam This day is the Church poysoned that poyson did not presently worke the effect but by litle and litle So that the change from the Protestants religion to Poperie was not sodaine although meruailous but brought to passe by leysure and yet with as much spéede as the Dragon could by his members and ministers bring it to passe As for gainesayers it lacked none amongst whom I thinke you will allowe Gregorie the first to bee one of the chiefest Now therefore I require your promise which is to recant and yéelde although you haue hitherto refused so to doo The eleuenth Offer Offerer Let the learned Protestant shew me what order of seruice or coÌ„mon prayer what order of ministration of sacraments their Church had before Papistrie as they call it preuailed in the world Let him shew mee one booke or copie of any communion or what els you list that was in English or in any vulgar or coÌ„mon tongue beside the Hebrew Greeke and Latine or that lacked prayer for the foules departed or inuocation to saints or sacrifice for the sinnes both of the quicke and the dead or that charged a number to receiue with the priest or that he could not els consecrate or say Masse receiuing alone or that the people should take the sacrament for bread and wine and not for the reall body blood of Christ or that they should giue no honor to it or not reserue the same for the comfort of the sicke and diseased people or that denied extreme vnction with the rest of the sacraments to bee behoufull or necessarie for them let the learned Protestant bring forth and shew such a communion booke or any leafe line or word of any such doctrine or any Church or congregatition that euer had authenticall seruice or ministration of the sacraments other then that which is yet daily and o-openly practized in the common knowne Catholique church of Christ and I shall then recant and not before Crowley It séemeth by this Offer that this Offerer and his fellowes are perswaded that what soeuer is now openly practized in the popish diuine seruice and ministration of sacraments hath bin so openly practized as now it is euen euer since the Church of Christ was first planted in the City of Rome Which is a wronge persuasion For the greatest number of the ceremonies yea well nigh all that are now vsed in that ministration haue bin diuised since the ende of the first 300. yéeres as by their owne Hystories it dooth most plainly appeere I will therefore answere this offer with another not much vnlike to this and thus I say Let this Offerer shew mée what order of seruice or common praier what order of ministration of sacraments the Church had before the end of the first 300. yéeres Let him shew mée one booke or copy of any communion or what els you list that was in Hebrew Gréeke Latine or in any other language that had in it prayer for the soules departed or inuocation to saints or sacrifice for the quicke and the deade or that did not coÌ„mand a number to receiue with the priest or that did teach the people not to take the sacrament for breade and wine but for the reall body and blood of Christ or that they shoulde giue honor to the outwarde sacrament or that they should reserue it for the sicke diseased people or that taught extreme vnction Confirmation Order Penance and Matrimony to bée Sacraments behooufull or necessarie for Christians let this learned Offerer bringe foorth and shew such a communion booke or any leafe line or word of any such doctrine or any Church or congregation that euer had any such authenticall seruice or ministration of sacraments as is now openly practized in the coÌ„monly knowne popish Catholique church before the ende of the first 300. yeeres And then will I recant and bée a Papist as this Offerer is and not before I thinke I haue offered you faire play If you like the offer take it I will not flée from it If not for shame bragge no more of the antiquitie of your authentike seruice that is now practized in your Antichristian Catholike church But recant as you haue promised The first bishop of Rome that was bolde to diuise any thing to bée added to that which the Apostles vsed in the ministration of the Lords supper was Alexander the first And what did hée Platina saith that this man added Qui pridem quam pateretur vsque ad hanc clausulam hoc est Corpus meum Which is thus in English Which a day before hee suffered euen vnto this clause This is my body And Platina saith that Alexander did this that there might bee a remembrance of the passion of Christ Hée deuised also the making of holy water the vse whereof was to driue diuells out of Temples and chambers He ordained also that water should bée mixed with the wine in the ministration of the Sacrament and that the breade should not bée leauened but vnleauened to take away the occasion that the Ebionits tooke to finde fault in that behalfe Thus much writeth Platina in vita Alexandri primi This Alezander was the sixt bishop of Rome after Peter Plantina in vita Alexandri primi if Platina haue written truly and was made bishop in the yéere 110. after the incarnation of our sauiour
Christ which was 70. yéeres after as it is supposed that Peter was made bishop of Rome So that the church vsed none of those things that were diuised by him for the space of those 70. yéeres of the first 300. yeeres After this Alexander Sixtus 1. was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 121. after the incarnation of our sauiour Christ if the hystories bee true and the fourescore yeere after the supposed entring of Peter into the Byshopricke of Rome This man diuised sundrie things as Sanctus sanctus sanctus to bée songe in the celebration of the Lords supper But heere I must note how vnlikely this is to bée true for as saint Augustine hath written in the 7. August li. 9. Conf. Ca. 7. Chapter of the 9. booke of his confessions the custome of singing in churches was not begun in the Latine church before the dayes of Ambros who liued about the yeere of our Lord 380. And more ouer it can not bee prooued by any hystories that the Christians had any liberty to builde any church in the citie Rome before the time of Constantine the Emperoure who builded at his owne charges the first churches that the Christians had in Rome But let it bée as Platina hath written in the life of Sixtus the first Hée commanded that Sanctus sanctus sanctus that is holy holy holy should bee songe in the celebration that is in the ministration of the cōmunion But I pray you marke what Platina saith further Nuda primo haec erant c. At the first those things were bare and naked and all thinges were handled simply For when Peter did consecrate hée vsed the prayer Our father Iames the bishop of Hierusalem encreased or enriched these mysteries and so did Basill and other For Celestinus gaue the Introite of the Masse Gregorie the Kyrie eleison Telesphorus the Gloria in excelsis Deo Gelasius the first gaue the Collations and Hierome the Epistle and the Gospell Haleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem The Credo from the counsell of Néece Pelagius inuented the cōmemoration of the deade Leo the third inuented the Incense Innocent the first inuented the kissing of the Paxe And Sergius ordained that Agnus Dei should bée songe But séeing that in the daies of Sixtus fewe were founde by reason of the often murders or slaughters of Christians that durst professe the name of Christ and the Christians in France did desire to haue a bishop Sixtus did send vnto them one Peregrinus a citizen of Rome c. Thus far Platina By these woords of Platina it appeareth that during the first 80. yeeres after saint Peters supposed entring into the bishopricke of Rome there was no more vsed in the ministration of the Lords supper but the Lords prayer which beginneth thus Our father which arte in heauen c. Celestinus that gaue the Introite of the Masse was not bishop in Rome before the ende of 420. yeeres after Christ so that for the space of 420. yéeres your Masse had no Introite That Gregorie that appointed the Kyrie eleison was made bishop of Rome in the yéere 590. after Christ so that your Masse lacked that parte for the space of 600. yeeres almost Telesphorus added the Gloria in excelsis about 130. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse did lack that parte so longe time Gelasius the first that diuised the Collations was bishop of Rome about 490. yeeres after Christ so that your Masse lacked hir Collations almost 500. yéeres Hieronimus that added the Epistle and Gospell was neuer bishop either in Rome or else where Hee liued in Bethlehem about 380. yéeres after Christ so that your Masse had no Epistle or Gospell for 380. yeeres after Christ And your Halleluia was taken from the church of Hierusalem by Gregorie the first who was bishop of Rome about the yéere of our Lord 590. The Nicene Créede could not be vsed before that councell wherein it was agréed vpon which was 330. yeeres after Christ And Pelagius that inuented the remembrance of the deade was made bishop of Rome in the yeere of our Lord 556. so that for the space of so many yeeres after Christ there was no remembrance of the deade in your Masse Leo the third that inuented the burning of Incense was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 796. after Christ so that for the space of so many yeeres there was no burning of Incense in churches Innocent the first was made bishop of Rome in the yeere 406. hée inuented the kissing of the Paxe at Masse so longe therefore was your Masse without that ceremonie And Sergius that appointed the singing of Agnus Dei was made bishop of Rome in the yeere after Christ 694. or there about so that your Masse lacked hir Agnus Dei for the space almost of 700. yeeres after Christ Now M. Offerer consider with your selfe I pray you whether the learned Protestant may not as easily prooue the antiquitie of his communion booke euen from the Apostles time as you may prooue your Authenticall seruice and ministration of sacraments now daily openly practized If you would with indifferent iudgment weigh al that I haue here written I doo not doubt but you would cōfesse that during the first 90. yéeres after Christs ascention there was no prescribed order set downe in any booke for publike seruice or ministration of sacramēts other then that which is contained in the scriptures Wherefore there is none so great a cause of misliking in oure common booke as that there be so many of your latter inuētions allowed of in it And surely if our princes people would yéelde to a perfect reformation wee might make our communion booke a great deale lesse then it is by blotting out of it all that hath bin inuented by your bishops of Rome Thus I doo thinke I haue said enough to cause you to recant although you would not before The twelfth Offer Offerer I demaund of the learned Protestant to know cause and reason why their congregations doo admit and receiue all bishops priests deacons and other officers spirituall ordered by our Catholike church as men lawfull and sufficient to preach the word of God to minister the Sacramēts to exercise all spirituall iurisdiction in no lesse wise but rather more then if they had bin ordred in their owne congregations whereas the Catholike church of Christ dooth not acknowledge any man of their ordering and calling to be any whit the more fit for any spirituall function in Christ his church then other cōmon lay men When therefore the learned Protestant shal be able to shew good cause and reason why our Catholike church hauing by their owne consent and approouing lawfull priestes bishops and spirituall ministers not to be also the lawfull true and Catholike church of Christ I will then recant and not before Crowley This Offer is altogither friuolous and foolish For what reason was it that mooued this vnreasonable Offerer to require the learned
they preach except they be sent Had no such meaning as this Offerer dooth beare the world in hand that hée had That is that no preachers can be thought to be sent of God but such only as are allowed of by some popish Prelate S. Augustine in his Dialogue of 65. August in Dialog 65. questionū questions if that booke may bée called his hath this question in the later end of that booke Quot genera sunt Apostolatus vel quale nomen sit Apostolus volo cognoscere I am willing to know saith Orosius how many sorts of Apostleships there bée or what maner name this name Apostle is The answere that saint Augustine is supposed to make is thus This name Apostle is interpreted to signifie sent Of Apostles or messēgers there be foure sorts or kings One sort are sent from God not by men another sort are sent from God but yet by mē a third sort are sent by men onely and the fourth sort are sent of them selues From God only was Moses sent from God by man was Iosua sent by man onely are such sent as by the fauor of the cōmon people are aduaunced to the office of priesthoode as in our daies many are Of themselues are sent such as be false prophets then Orosius asketh another question which is the last question of that booke Quomodo possumus scire qui mittatur a Deo How may wée know saith hee who it is that is sent of God Augustine answereth Illum cognosce missum a Deo quem non paucorum hominū laudatio vel potius adulatio eligit sed illum quem vita mores optimi apostolicorum actio commendat sacerdotum vel etiam qui vniuersorum populorum iuditio comprobatur qui non appetit praeesse qui nec pecuniam dat vt Episcopatus honorem acquirat Nam qui praeesse festinat quidam patrum eliganter expressit dicens sciat se non esse Episcopum qui praeesse cupit non prodesse In english thus Know this that not the man whom the commendation or rather the flatterie of a few men dooth choose but he whom both life and maners of the best sort the action of Apostolike priestes dooth commend is sent of God or els that man that is allowed of by the iudgment of all people such a one as desireth not to beare rule that doth not giue money that he may obtaine the honor of a bishop For he that is hasty to beare rule is by one of the Fathers finely painted out in this saying let that man that coueteth to beare rule and not to doo good know that hée is no bishop In these woords of S. Augustine it appéereth that in his iudgment it is not the ordinarie calling and externall vnction that wee should looke vnto when wée bee desirous to know what preachers be sent of God but it is their good life the good liking that good men haue of them yea and the good opinion that all men are enforced to haue in them bicause they sée in them no signe of ambition or desire of honor but contrariwise that they are desirous to be occupied in doing good By these signes saith S. Augustine yee shall know that they are sent of God So that as Chrysosostome saith that they are knowne by the maner of their preaching so S. Augustine doth say that they are knowne by their life But now the Offerer or some of his friends will say that S. Augustine is against vs in these woords Et apostolicorum actio commendat sacerdotum In english thus And such a one as the action of the Apostolike priests dooth commend These Apostolike priests must néedes be popish Catholiques in the iudgment of this Offerer his fellows for with them onely Peter is the Apostle and Rome the Apostolike seate bicause as they imagine Peter was byshop there 25. yéere left his powre authority there with his immediate successor But who was that successor they are not yet agréed for some of them say it was Clement some say it was Limus But this is their conclusion that whosoeuer is bishop of Rome must néedes haue Peters authority by succession in that seate although hee bée in life doctrine neuer so vnlike or cōtrary to Peter And none may be accounted Apostolike but such as be of or vnder the obedience of that Apostolike succession but by the circumstance of S. Augustines woords it appéereth that hee taketh them for Apostolike priests that are most like vnto the Apostles in life and in doctrine and in painefull trauell and in continuall care to doo good in the Church of Christ Such are not the popish Catholiques for all their care is as in the Decrées of their generall Counselles it dooth appéere to aduance them selues in degrée aboue all other sortes of men and to maintaine them selues in that high estate And they are euen the same men that are spoken vnto in those last woords that I haue cyted out of S. Augustine sciat se non esse Episcopum qui praeesse cupit non prodesse Let that man which coueteth to beare rule and not to doo good knowe that hee is no bishop But let vs nowe see what this Offerer hath cited out of the fift Chapter to the Hebrewes Heb. 5. Nec quisquam sibi sumit honorem nisi qui vocatur a Deo quemadmodum Aaron No man taketh honor vnto him selfe except hee bée called of God as Aaron was First I must note that this Offerer hath not dealt simply in that he hath translated these wroodes thus let no man take vnto him selfe c. For by this translation it séemeth to bée a commaundement giuen or a rule set downe by the Apostle which rule must néedes bee kept in the admitting of all such as shal be ministers in the church of Christ So that who soeuer is not admitted according to that rule may not bée taken for a Catholique minister nor his ministration allowed of But let vs sée in what meaning the Apostle did write the woords The circumstance of the text dooth make it plaine that the Apostles purpose was to prooue that Aarons priesthoode was at an ende and that the high priestes that had bin made after the Order of Aaron were farre inferiour vnto Christ that is our high Priest not after the Order of Aaron but of Melchizedech And yet our Sauiour Christ was no vsurper for hée was called of God as Aaron was And herein hée was like vnto Aaron But in that Aaron and such as were made high Priests after his Order did offer Sacrifice for their owne sinnes Christ was nothing like them for hee neded not to offer for any sinnes of his owne sith there was no sinne in him But how maketh this for our Offerers purpose The Apostles meaning was to prooue that Aarons Priesthoode was now come to an ende and must now giue place to the Priesthoode of Christ which shoulde neuer haue
that hee will neuer remember them anie more 1 Iohn 2 and that therefore there is no more sacrifice for sin And in the second chapter of S. Iohns first Epistle wee are assured that Christ Iesus the righteous is the propitiation for our sinnes Your opinion therefore concerning a Sacrifice propitiatorie to bée offered in your Masse is blasphemous and dooth derogate from the glorie of Christ who is our onely mediator whose mediation is sufficient and néedeth no helpe of your massing Préesthoode Your penaunce also is in some part blasphemous as in that you teache your ghostly children to satisfie to God for theyr sinnes by suche workes as you enioyne them to doo And the fruites thereof which you call worthy as fasting watchinge praying and all straightnes of lyfe are supersticious and Hipocriticall and therefore we speake against them Your vowes your inuocation of Saints and your prayers for the soules departed are superfluous and in your meaning superstitious in very déed very wicked blasphemous For what néede hath a Christian to adde any vowe to that which is made in baptisme sith no man can truely say that eyther he hath or could performe that vow so but that God might iustly charge him with the lacke of performaunce thereof That vowe is to forsake the deuill and all his works and pompes the vanities of the wicked world and all the sinfull lustes of the fleshe To beléeue all the articles of the Christian fayth and to kéepe all the commaundementes of God all the dayes of our lyfe If this vowe bee so straight that not one amongst thousandes can bée sound that dooth not fayle in performing of it then is it more then superfluous to adde any other which may séeme to bée more straight and hard to be performed then this is or séeme to bée Your praying vnto Saintes also is superfluous For God himselfe that is all sufficient and able to doo for vs all that we doo or can desire yea and much more then wee can deuise to craue of him hath commaunded vs to call vpon hym yea and he hath promised to heare vs and to giue vs cause to glorifie him for our deliueraunce In the 50. Psal Psalme 50. the prophet Dauid saith thus in the person of God himself Jnuoca me in die tribulationis eruaÌ„ te honorificabis me Call vpon me in the day of thy trouble I wil deliuer thée thou shalt honor me And in the Psalm 81 Open thy mouth wide Psal 81 145. and I wil fil it And in the Psa 145. The Lord is hard at hand with euery one that calleth vpon him which eueryone the calleth vpoÌ„ him faithfully Esay the Prophet cha 63. Esay 63 Made his praier vnto God not to AbrahaÌ„ not to Isacke not to Iacob The apostle Paule bowed his knées that is to say hee prayed to the father of our Lord Iesus Christ that is the diuine maiestie not to the Saintes or holy Angels Ephe 3. Ephes 3 Our Sauiour Christ teaching his schollers how they should pray sayth thus When thou wilt pray enter into thy chamber and when thou hast shut thy doore pray vnto thy father in secrete and thy father which séeth in secret shall giue vnto thée And againe he sayth On this wise therefore shall you pray Our father which art in heauen c. Math 6. Math 6. By these places of Scripture and many other we are encouraged to make our prayers vnto God and to be assured that he dooth heare vs and that he will graunt our peticions For hée is both able and ready to helpe vs as a most mighty and mercifull father It is therefore a thing altogeather vayne and superfluous and vnnecessarie to make any prayers to any other In lyke manner it is a thing altogeather vnnecessary to make prayers for the soules departed For if they be departed in the Lord they be happie and blessed as wee are certified by that voyce which came from Heauen Apo 14. Apoc â—â— And on the contrary if they departed not in the Lord then are they most vnhappie and cursed so that thereis no saluation for them Nothing that we can doo can profit them So that in the one case they doo not stand in néede of our prayers and in the other our prayers can doo them no good Your prayer therefore for the dead is altogether superfluous and vnnecessary Your opinion in this poynt is grounded vpon no Canonicall Scripture but vpon an imagination that you haue conceiued concerning the meaning of Iudas Machabaeus 2. Mach 12 2 Mach 12. Of what authoritie the booke is may appeare in that which Saint Hierome hath written in hys preface vpon the bookes of Salmon Hierom praef in pruden Salomon Thus hath Saint Hierome written there Sicut ergo Iudith Tobiae Machabeorum libros legit quidem Ecclesia sed eos inter canonicas scriptura non recipit sic haec duo volumina c. In English thus Euen as the Church dooth in déede reade the bookes of Iudeth and Tobias and of the Machabies but doth not receiue them amongst the cannocall Scriptures euen so she may reade these two bookes meaning the Booke of wisedome and Ecclesiasticus to the edifying of the people but not for the confirming of Ecclesiasticall doctrine By this it appeareth that the foundation of your imagination is verie weake and not sufficient to beare that waightie buildinge that you doo lay vpon it Which is as weighty as an article of our fayth The authoritie of that booke may bée séene also euen in the last lines of the booke wherein the authour dooth shewe himselfe to stand in doubt whether he had doon so well as he wished to doo and in case he had not he craueth pardon at the handes of his readers And he vseth a similitude to mooue his readers to pardon him Which is not found in any of the writers of the Canonicall Sriptures And in the latter part of the 14. Chapter of that second booke of the Machabies 2 Macha 14 theris great commendation giuen to one Razias for that he dyd murder himselfe whych can not make for the credite of the author of the booke neither of the matter contained in the booke But let the booke bée of as great authority as this Offerer wold with it to be what hath Iudas Machabaeus doone that may mooue vs to thinke that he had any such meaning as this Offerer and his fellowes doo imagine the he had The Historian sayth that afâ—er the Armie of Gorgias was by the mightie power of God put to flight Iudas hauing gathered his armie togeather came to the Cittie Odolla And when the seauenth day was come and they were purified 2 Mach Chap 12. according to the custome they did in the same place spende the time of the Saboth And the next day following Iudas came with his company to take vp the deade bodies of them that were slaine and