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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A13160	A challenge concerning the Romish Church, her doctrine & practises, published first against Rob. Parsons, and now againe reuiewed, enlarged, and fortified, and directed to him, to Frier Garnet, to the archpriest Blackevvell and all their adhærents, by Matth. Sutcliffe. Thereunto also is annexed an answere vnto certeine vaine, and friuolous exceptions, taken to his former challenge, and to a certeine worthlesse pamphlet lately set out by some poore disciple of Antichrist, and entituled, A detection of diuers notable vntrueths, contradictions, corruptions, and falsifications gathered out of M. Sutcliffes new challenge, &c.	Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629.; Sutcliffe, Matthew, 1550?-1629. Briefe replie to a certaine odious and slanderous libel.	1602 (1602)	STC 23454; ESTC S117867	337,059	440

shewed sculptile conflatile reor saith r In Abacus 2. Hierome dogmata esse peruersa quae ab his quibus facta sunt adorantur but neuer did any sect more stifly defend their errors then papists for they holde the popes sentence to be infallible neither will they abandone any of his errors though neuer so plainly demonstrated argument 35 ſ Arg. 35. Neither can they excuse themselues that t C. satis dist 96. call the pope their god and worship him with more strange worship then that which Peter refused Act. 10. the canonists woonder at his excellency u In proaem Clement saying papa stupor mundi non deus non homo sed vtrunque that is the pope is the wonderment of the world not god not man but both for so saith Mosconius in his booke de maiestate ecclesiae lib. 1. part 1. c. 1. in the councell of Lateran one called Leo the tenth his sauiour But Hierome in his Commentaries vpon the third of Daniel estéemeth them to be idolaters that giue such worship to earthly princes argument 36 x Arg. 36. Furthermore God is a spirit and therefore he will bée worshipped not in externall images but in spirit he is a iealous God and therefore admitteth no copartners in his worship he is so one God that he will admit no other creature to haue any part of his worship giuen to him according to the law of God thou shalt haue no other gods but me and al this is signified to teach vs how much God detesteth idolatrie but the papists worship God as they say in his image they giue diuine worship to stockes stones and to the sacrament they make vowes to saints and angels and call vpon them they put their trust as much in saints as euer the Gentiles did in Hercules Aesculapius Apollo and other idoles they haue transformed the Psalmes vttered in praise of God to the praise of our lady how then can they excuse themselues from idolatry argument 37 y Arg. 37. Finally the law of God condemneth all images and similitudes of things both in heauen aboue and in the earth beneath and in the waters vnder the earth that are worshipped the same also z Rom. 1. reprooueth those that change the glory of the incorruptible God into the likenesse of an image of a corruptible man and that offer incense or spirituall sacrifices vnto any but God and all this tendeth to the abolishing of idolatry but the papists worship the likenesses and images of God and change his glory into the shape of a corruptible man they offer also to creatures their praiers and vowes manifest therefore it is that in diuers points they are guiltie of grosse idolatry Neither can they by any meanes excuse themselues if they say they doe not worship the image a Per se propriè for it selfe and properly with that worship that is due to the originall as b Lib. 2. de imaginib c. 24. Bellarmine teacheth the heathen could alledge so much for themselues for they did not worship the image as they worshipped their gods themselues nor did they sacrifice to the wood and stone but to the things represented If they alledge that they doe not worship images as gods as c Ibid. c. 5. de eccles triumph lib. 2. c. 24. Bellarmine and Gregory de Valentia doe oftentimes thinking by that meanes to shift off the blot of idolatrie from themselues and the church of Rome yet will not that serue for the very heathen could say that they tooke not their idoles for gods non ipsa inquiunt timemus saith d Instit diuin lib. 2. c. 2. Lactantius speaking of the excuse of idolaters sed eos ad quorum imaginem ficta quorum nominibus consecrata sunt that is we doe not feare or worship images say the heathen idolaters but those after whose likenesse they were made and to whose names they were consecrated likewise saint Augustine in Psal 113. sheweth that the heathen were woont to say that they did not worship that which was visible but onely the inuisible diuinitie that was represented and manifested in the image non hoc visibile colo sed numen quod illic inuisibiliter habitat and againe they said nec simulachrum nec daemonium colo sed per effigiem corporalem eius rei signum intueor quam colere debeo doe you not then plainly see that the idolaters spoke like the papists for they say also we worship not images with latria properly nor doe we worship diuels but by bodily shapes we are brought to sée and remember the things which we ought to worship If they deny that they worship creatures and change the trueth of God into a lie saint Augustine will tell them e In Psal 113. conc 2. that while they call their images by the names of the things represented as for example when they say to the crucifixe thou hast redeemed me and call the images or pictures our lady or S. Peter or Paule they change the trueth of God into a lie effigies à fabro factas saith saint Augustine appellando nominibus earum rerum quas fabricauit deus transmutant veritatem dei in mendacium If f Lib. 2. de imaginib c. 10. Bellarmine alledge that images are not only profitable as reporting matter of story but also effectuall to enflame vs to the loue of God and imitation of holy men and diuers other vses he must be told that Augustine teacheth vs farre otherwise ducit affectu quodam infirmo rapit infirma corda mortalium formae similitudo saith g In Psal 113. conc 2. Augustine membrorum imitata compago he saith againe that the outward forme of things doth bring foorth sordidissimum erroris affectum a most filthy affection to error he saith also that images doe effectually peruert vnhappy soules plus valent simulachra saith he ad curuandam infaelicem animam quod os habent c. If they say that their images are no idoles because they are representations of true things and not false representations as doeth Bellarmine lib. 2. de imaginib c. 5. saying quod idolum est falsa similitudo it may be answered that the Gentiles might answer so likewise and yet say nothing to purpose for the image of Romulus of the sonne of Hercules and Aesculapius were true representations and yet idoles for that they were worshipped by idolaters why then should we not iudge the like of the images of Peter and of our ladie If they say that idolaters are condemned because they put their trust in their idoles and images as the conuenticle of Trent h Sess 25. saith and hopeth thereby to put away the infamie of idolatry from the Romish church it may be replied that the Gentiles did neuer trust more in their god Iupiter and Iuno and Fortuna or in their idoles then the papists doe in our lady in saint Denis saint Iames and in

tu nos ab hoste protege hora mortis suscipe argument 72 Neither did Christians in olde time chant such Letanies as now are vsuall in the Romish missals and breuiaries saying Sancte Michael sancte Gabriel sancte Raphael nor sancta Maria Magdalena sancta Agnes sancta Agatha nor omnes sancti sanctae intercedite pro nobis argument 73 In ancient f Vid. ordinem Rom. missals the praier memento for the dead is not in the canon the ancient fathers did neuer vse such a form argument 74 In ancient time it would haue bene thought very strange to pray in a tongue not vnderstood especially when the apostle g 1. Cor. 14. teacheth vs that it profiteth nothing argument 75 The psalter of our lady and her peculier offices are not to be iustified by ancient precedents argument 76 If any had bene taken praying to a stocke or stone he would haue bene condemned for an idolater but now papists commonly pray to images of wood and stone and to the crosse they say auge pijs iustitiam reisque dona veniam which although it may be thought sottish and sencelesse yet will they not haue it counted idolatrous argument 77 Christ forbadde vs to vse battologies or often repetitions in our praiers but the papists neither regarding his doctrine nor the practise of the ancient church in their psalter of Iesu repeat the name of Iesu infinit times they reherse also infinit Aue Mariaes and Pater Nosters argument 78 In the Missale of Salsbury the priest saith to the sacrament Aue. he boweth also to it contrary to the ancient churches practise argument 79 The Rosaries and beades of our lady containing 63. Aue Mariaes and 7. Pater Nosters which are now much reckoned of in Spaine and Italy as appeareth by the manuall of Geronymo Campos are but new tricks of late popes and superstitious priests to catch mony argument 80 In time past Christians were wont to entombe holy martyrs and to call vpon God at their tombes and monuments But of late time the blinde papists haue digged the saints out of their graues and thinke it religion to call vpon them and to kisse rotten bones and ragges yea sometimes which belong not to the saints to whome they are attributed argument 81 The papists also worship wicked men as George of Cappadocia an Arrian hereticke Thomas Becket an impure fellow and a traitor to his country h La fulminante Ieames Clement the murderer of his liege soueraine Campian and Sherwin and such as died in England for notorious treasons argument 82 Neither are they ashamed to call the sacrament their lord and god as appeareth by the words of Alane in his treatise de sacrific euchar c. 41. and Bristow in his 26. motiue which they cannot iustifie by testimony of antiquity argument 83 They also worship the sacrament with diuine honour as if God and the sacrament were one person the priest after consecration doth adore it as it is in the rubrike of the i Missal Rom. missal and boweth his knee vnto it they hang the sacrament vpon the altar with light before it and cary it about with lightes and bells and great solemnity all which Robert Parsons will not proue to be practised by the ancient church of Christ nay when he goeth about it he shall finde that the principall authors of this idolatry were Honorius the 3. Vrbane the 4. and Clement the fift men of late time and leud stampe argument 84 To the crosse they say ô crux aue spes vnica and venite adoremus as is proued by the Romish portesse sabbat in hebd 4. quadrages and booke of ceremonies and pontificall in die parasc neither are they ashamed to confesse that latria or diuine worship is due to the crosse albeit all antiquity abhorred such grosse idolatry argument 85 They worship the images of god the father of god the sonne and god the holy ghost and the whole trinity with latria or diuine worship as may be gathered by their practise by the decrée of the conuenticle of Trent the 25. session by the testimony of Suares in 3. part Thom. tom 1. disp 54. sect 4. and of vellosillus in aduertent in 5. tom Hieronym ad 10. quae sit which the ancient fathers neuer did nay the idolatrous second councell of Nice allowed not this supreme worship of Latria to be due to any images argument 86 Gregory the first in a certaine epistle to Serenus declareth that albeit images are not to be broken downe and vtterly abolished out of churches yet they are not to be worshipped Epiphanius vtterly condemneth the hauing of them in churches and to that effect the councell of Eliberis in Spaine made a solemne k Can. 36 act Placuit say the fathers of that councell picturas in ecclesia esse non debere ne quod colitur aut adoratur in parietibus depingatur but now the papists not onely place them in churches but also adore them and worship them argument 87 Antiquity neuer burnt incense to images nor kissed them nor bowed downe to them nor said their praiers before them for that is repugnant to the second commandement and is derogatory to Gods honor but the papists now doe all this and thinke it piously doone also argument 87 In ancient time Christians serued God in spirit and trueth according to the saying of our sauiour Iohn 4. but the religion of papists consisteth in eating of redde herrings and salt fish in abstinence from flesh and white meats in knocking knéeling greasing shauing washing ducking crouching crossing and such like outward ceremonies argument 88 The ancient fathers did neuer take the bishop of Rome to be head or foundation of the church for well they remembred that our Sauiour Christ is the head of the church and Sauiour of his body and l 1. Cor. 3. that no man can lay other foundation then that which is laid which is Christ Iesus and that the church is built vpon the apostles and prophets Christ Iesus being the corner stone but vpon apostles and prophets because they preach vnto vs Christ Iesus but the papists now teach that the pope is both the foundation and the head of the church for that doth Bellarmine teach in his preface before his bookes de Pontifice Rom. and in the second booke chap. 31. of that treatise neither doe I thinke that any papists will denie it argument 89 Neither did they call the pope in ancient time the spouse of the church for that doeth onely belong to Christ adiunxi vos vni viro saith the apostle 2. Corinth 10. ad exhibendam virginem castam Christo but the papists m C. vbi periculum de elect in sexto doe not sticke to call the pope the spouse of the church and Bellarmine of his liberalitie doeth giue the pope that title lib. 2. de Pontif. Rom. c. 31. and the pope like a good fellow taketh the same to himselfe c. quoniam de

aduersaries will say they neither erect nor make any idols as if euery image worshipped with religious worship were not an idole as it is said in the booke of Charles the great set forth against the second councell of Nice and the worship of images Beside that to preuent this simple shift of idolaters that distinguish images yea though worshipped with diuine worship from idols the scripture saith non facietis vobis idolum sculptile taking all grauen images worshipped with religious worship for idols but our aduersaries doe procéed further for as the gentils did fall downe before their idols and pray before them and burne incense to them so doe they to their images they doe also relie much in their idole of the altar and put no small trust in the crosse and their images to the crosse they a ●rcu●ar Rom. ô crux aue spes vnica that is ô crosse all haile our onely hope are not then these wooden felowes that thus say to a wooden crosse in the Romish breuiary they pray to our lady as to their anchor hold and say Sumens illud aue Gabrielis ore funda nos in pace that is receiuing an aue from Gabriels mouth establish and found vs in peace which howsoeuer they obtaine they found our opinion most firmely that say they are idolaters argument 5 b Argu. 5. In the 81. psalme God by his prophet forbiddeth his people to worship new gods or strange gods non erit in te saith he Deus recens neque adorabis deum alienum and no question but that such as doe either inuent new gods or strange gods are idolaters let vs then see whether the papists doe not worship both new gods and strange gods and such as the apostles and prophets neuer knew first they will not deny that the eucharist is their lord and god for that I haue shewed before next they confesse that the images of the trinity are to be worshipped with the worship that is dew to God further they doe daily canonize new saints and make new masses and praiers in their honor but these are new gods neuer knowen in ancient time and gods by participation as Bellarmine calleth them and very strange gods nay euery day they conscerate new hosts and make new images and new crosses and new saints finally the newest saints and gods with them haue best credit doe they not then worship new gods and doe they not frame vs a new religion argument 6 c Argu. 6. The Israelits Exod. 32. were cōdemned for their idolatry although they pretended to worship the true God in a golden calfe and this is apparent by the words of Aaron and the text following to morrow said Aaron is a solemne feast of the Lord. and when that day came it is said that the people offered burnt sacrifices and peace offrings which if they had bene offered to the calfe what reason had Aaron to talke of the feast day of the Lord or why should the people say that those were the gods that brought Israel out of Aegypt but that they imagined that they did worship the inuisible God that brought them out of Aegypt in that visible calfe The mother also of Micha Iudges 17. affirmeth that she had sanctified certaine siluer whereof a molten image was made to the lord to make a grauen image of it It is apparent also that d 3. Reg. 12. Ieroboam did consecrate his two idols which he erected in Bethel Dan to the Lord yet were all those that worshipped either the calfe or Michas or Ieroboams idols grosse idolaters neither was it any excuse for them that they did not worship the matter or any thing corporeal or that as they thought they did worship the true god in these images if then the papists worship either God or saints in images it is first contrary to Gods commandement and next it is plaine idolatry albeit they pretend that they neither worship siluer nor golde nor the images themselues materially or grosly but much more is it so to be estéemed if any of them as the fashion is worship and kisse stocks and stones and offer light and other commodities vnto the very statues and images them selues argument 7 e Argu. 7. It is also a property of idolaters to reioice in the works of their owne hands as may be proued by the words of Stephen act 7. laetabantur saith he in operibus manuum suarum further it is their wont to worship those very images which themselues made f Act. 7. figuras quas fecistis saith the scripture adorare eas and this is also apparent by the practise of the papists for they celebrate solemne feasts on the day of the dedication of their images and vant much of the miracles of the lady of Walsingham of Monserrat of Loreto Horatius Tursellinus a Iebusite and a panegyricall declamer hath in a vanting vaine set out the story of the acts miracles offrings and festiuities of the lady of Loreto they likewise were wont to talke much of Thomas of Canterbury and yet talke of the images of Saint Sebastian and Saint Rocke and of the Cocle shells of Saint Michael which in liew of the substance of religion they giue to their followers finally they fall downe and adore the images which themselues haue made and which the heathen scarce did they creepe to them on their knées touch them with their fingers set vp light before them pray to them and say sancte Christophore sancte Hermingilde sancti coronati quatuor audite nos intercedite pro nobis They doe offer also which the priests like best of all rich presents to them as is euident by the rich shrine of Thomas Becket in time past and now by the great treasure of the idole of Loreto set out by g Histor. Lauret Tursellinus argument 8 Scriptures doe account them idolaters that serue the hoast of heauen as is testified by the prophet Amos chap. 5. and saint Stephen Act. 7. where it is said that God gaue ouer his people to serue the hoast of heauen seruite militiae coeli are not then those simple papists giuen ouer to a strange dulnesse and as it were to a reprobate sence that worship angels and archangels he saints and she saints h In missal Rom. breuiar Hortulo animae and all the hoast and court of heauen and is it not strange to heare them pray in their litanies Sancta virgo vriginum sancte Michael sancte Gabriel sancte Raphael omnes angeli archangeli omnes sancti beatorum spirituum ordines orate pro nobis omnes sancti sanctae dei intercedite pro nobis argument 9 i Argu. 9. Amos doth account them idolaters that erected tabernacles to their gods and caried about with them the images or pourtraits of their false gods portastis tabernaculum Moloch vestro k Amos 5. saith he imaginem idolorum vestrorum sidus dei vestri quae fecistis vobis

of late time haue not any that deserue to be entituled either bishops or priests where least any fond cauiller should mistake me as a certeine n A detection of vntrueths and falsifications disciple of antichrist hath done of late I doe giue them to vnderstand that my meaning is not to deny them to be the church that haue ministers or bishops faulty for life or defectiue in the execution of their office but onely those that haue bishops and priests without lawfull ordination and that doe not at all execute the office and function of a pastor or bishop and because the synagogue of Rome hath onely such priests and bishops as want lawfull ordination and vtterly cease to execute pastorall functions I saie that the same cannot be the true church of Christ I say then that Romish priests haue no lawfull ordination because they are ordeined first by heretikes by excommunicate and simoniacall persons which the canons doe prohibit to lay hands on any and disallow such as are ordeined by them that the popes of Rome and bishops ordeined by them are simonicall persons it appeareth by the practises of the conclaue in election of popes by the compacts made betwixt the pope and such as he ordeineth by the testimony of the conscience of papal creatures and publike writings o Lib. de schism Theodorick a Niem testifieth against Boniface the 9. and others and saith that Boniface sold the same benefice to diuers and when he lay a dying bought and sold and said he should doe well if he had money Vllerstone in his petitions crieth out of the simony of his time that was a cause also of the complaint of the Germaines in their grieuances venalia nobis saith Mantuan Templa sacerdotes altaria sacra coronae Ignis thura preces coelum est venale deúsque that they are heretikes it shall be prooued by the seuerall heresies old and new which the church of Rome holdeth Secondly they are not ordeined lawfully because they are not ordeined to teach and administer the sacraments but to offer sacrifices for the quicke and dead as appeareth by their p Machab. in lib. de missis episcop pro ordinib formularies of ordring priests q Lib. de sacra ord c. 9. Bellarmine likewise confesseth that this is the due forme of ordring priests respondeo saith he sacerdotes ordinari cum illis dicitur accipe potestatem sacrificium offerendi this ordination I prooue to be vnlawfull first because it conteineth no commission for the principall point of apostolicall or priestly function and next because it giueth them an office of sacrificing for quicke and dead which is more then belongeth to their charge or was executed by the apostles or ancient bishops of the church Thirdly they are ordeined by bishops that haue themselues no due ordination being sent abroad by antichrist rather to suppresse the trueth then to teach the trueth now euery man well vnderstandeth that no man can giue orders but such as haue receiued orders Finally they are most of them vncapable of ministeriall function and can neither teach nor administer the sacraments duly and if they were able yet doe they not teach Gods people but rather by their masses and confessions draw them to superstition and disloialty That the Romish church hath no true bishops it is to be proued both by the same and other reasons first no heretikes haue power to ordeine others but the pope is an heretike ergo the first the aduersaries will not deny the second we shall prooue by diuers arguments in his proper place secondly we haue declared and the world knoweth that the popes of Rome are simoniacall persons of which it also followeth that they haue no power to ordeine pastors thirdly Antichrist hath no power to ordeine pastors in Christes church but that the pope is Antichrist and the head of Antichrists kingdome I haue declared in my fift booke De pontifice Rom. fourthly he that is no bishop can not ordeine bishops but I haue declared that the pope is no bishop and it is euident for that r 1. Tim. 3. episcopatus is opus but the pope doth not the office of a bishop either in teaching or administring the sacraments further bishops as Cyprian diuersly declareth are the successours of the apostles but the Pope succéedeth Caesar in the gouernment of Rome rather than Peter and Paul in gouerning the church and other Romish bishops they rather kill Christes shéepe and massacre his lambs than feed them finally Romish bishops albeit they are after a sort sent to teach and administer sacraments yet most of them are vncapable of that charge and all leaue the office of teaching to a packe of loud mouthed monks and babling friers thinking that too base an office for their great and high estate But had Romish priests and bishops any mission or ordination yet is the same very defectiue and diuers from the graue forme practised in the ancient church for neither is such regard had of the capacity and ability of the persons chosen to this function but that often times boies and infamous persons are called to this charge neither are the solemnities prescribed in the canons obserued nor doe either the priests or bishops teach true doctrine and sincerely administer the sacraments nor doe they finally attend that office and execute that worke whereto they are called If therfore the Romish priests and bishops haue no due ordination or calling then are not the papists the true church if their ordination be imperfect and faultie then such is the popish church as their popish ordination of ministers is that is faulty defectiue and imperfect argument 61 The true church of Christ can not adhere to Antichrist our sauior Christ speaking of his shéepe ſ Iohn 10. saith they will not follow a stranger but will flie from him neither doth Antichrist seduce any bur such as perish as the apostle teacheth vs 2. Thess 2. but the Romish church adhereth to the pope which is declared manifestly to be Antichrist both by his doctrine by his maners by the forme circumstances of his reigne and diuers arguments which because I would not draw out this discourse into length I would desire the learned to reade in my fift booke De pontifice Rom. and our aduersaries to answere if they holde contrary Robert Parsons should also doe well to answere such arguments as I vsed in my answere to his Wardword to proue the pope to be Antichrist argument 62 As the true church of Christ was figured by the holy city of Ierusalem so the malignant church of Antichrist is figured and represented partly by Babylon Apocalyps 18. and partly by the purple whore Apocalyp 17. that rideth on a beast with seuen heads and had a cup of gold in her hand ful of all abominations and spirituall carnall filthinesse If then the state of Rome and the Romish church be represented by this purple harlot and by Babylon

he sheweth that the inuention of images and their worship came of the diuell Vnde non est saith he simulacrificum hoc studium diabolicus conatus praetextu enim iustitiae semper subiens hominum mentem diabolus mortalem naturam in hominum oculis deificans statuas humanas imagines prae se ferentes per artium varietatem expressit mortui quidem sunt qui adorantur ipsorum verò imagines quae nunquam vixerunt adorandas introducunt adulterante mente ab vno solo Deo velut commune scortum ad multam multiplicis coitus absurditatem irritatum quod temperantiam legitimi coniugij vnius viri detriuit he doth cléerely shew that the diabolicall inuention of images hath adulterated the seruice of God and brought in absurd spirituall fornications S. u De haeres in cap. 6. Augustine sheweth that one Marcellina was noted as an heretike and a follower of Carpocrates because she worshipped the images of Iesu and Paul Colebat saith he imagines Iesu Pauli Homeri Pythagorae adorando incensum ponendo and yet in burning of incense and adoring the images of Iesu and Paul our aduersaries the papists nothing dissent from her He doth also condemne those that worship sepulchres and pictures as those which doe that which belongeth not to the religion of Christians Noui saith x De morib eccles c. 34. he multos esse sepulchrorum picturarum adoratores Likewise S. Hierome in Danielis c. 3. doth condemne the worship of images Siue statuam vt Symachus siue imaginem auream vt alij transtulerunt voluerimus legere cultores Dei cam adorare non debent Gregory also the first albeit he would not haue images broken downe yet did he teach that they ought not to be worshipped as may be gathered by his words lib. 7. epist 109. and lib. 9. epist 9. Finally the worship of images is condemned as idolatrous by a certeine councell of Constantinople whose acts are inserted in the reports of things passed in the second councell of Nice in the councell of Francfort vnder Charles the great a certeine councel of Paris about the yere of our Lord 824. in the time of Lewes Charles the great his sonne Non nos imagines in Basilicis positas saith the y In lib. Caroli Magni c●ntr imagin councell of Francfort idola nuncupamus sed ne idola nuncupentur adorare colere eas recusamus the councell signifieth that images being worshipped in churches are idoles neither doth any thing more confirme the Christian faith touching the false worship of images and statues than Bellarmine his wretched and wicked answeres to these obiections in his treatise concerning the worship of images as shall shortly God willing appeare by our answere and hath sufficiently beene declared by M. D. Rainolds already in his learned booke De Romanae ecclesiae idolatria against Bellarmine argument 29 z Arg. 29. The papists also shew themselues idolaters in calling vpon saints departed in deuising masses in their honor in setting vp light before their dead bones and praying before their images as the holy fathers teach vs that haue shewed themselues alwaies ready and forward to suppresse such abuses S. a In epistol ad Ripar Hierome saith that the reliques of martyrs are not to be adored his words I haue before related answering in defence of such women as light candles at noone day b Contra Vigilant he confesseth plainly that they had zeale but not according to knowledge Zelum habent saith he sed non secundum scientiam Sed neque Helias adorandus est saith c Haeres 79. Epiphanius etiamsi in viuis sit neque Ioannes adorandus quamuis per preces suas proprias dormitionem suam admirandam effecerit imò potius ex Deo gratiam acceperit sed neque Tecla neque quisquam sanctus adoratur non enim dominabitur nobis antiquus error vt relinquamus viuentem adoremus ea quae ab ipso facta sunt hée saith that neither Helias nor Iohn nor Tecla nor any saint is to be adored forasmuch as this sauoreth of the olde idolatry of the Gentiles and in so doing we should abandon the liuing God and adore creatures made by him and againe Sit in honore Maria saith he pater filius spiritus sanctus adoretur Mariam nemo adoret non dico mulierum sed neque virûm that is let the virgine Mary be had in reuerence but the Father the Sonne and Holy Ghost is only to be adored but as for the virgine Mary let neither man nor woman adore her Likewise S. Augustine sheweth that the worship of Christian religion consisted not in the seruice or worship of dead men or their reliques Non sit nobis religio saith d De vera religione c. 55. he cultus hominum mortuorum quia si piè vixerunt non sic habentur vt tales quaerant honores sed illum à nobis coli volunt quo illuminante laetantur meriti sui nos esse consortes honorandi sunt ergo propter imitationem non autem adorandi propter religionem He saieth that saints are to be reuerenced in regard they are examples to be followed and not to be adored for religion sake In his booke also De moribus ecclesiae cathol c. 34. he reprooueth those that worship the tombes of men departed Bellarm. lib. 2. De cultu imaginum lib. 11. alledgeth the 36. chapter of this booke where there are not so many in the whole in his 44. epistle ad Maximum he sheweth that in his time dead men were not yet worshipped Scias à Christianis catholicis saith he quorum in vestro oppido etiam ecclesia constituta est nullum coli mortuorum nihil denique vt numen adorari quod sit factum conditum à Deo he signifieth that religious worship is not due to any creature argument 30 e Arg. 30. Neither doe the fathers onely testifie against the idolatry of papists but diuers also of themselues doe confesse to the shame of the rest that diuers points of popish doctrine sauour of idolatry The second Nicene councell doth not allow any image to be made of the Godhead nor that Christians should giue the worship of Latria to images Christiani adorationem in spiritu veritate saith that f Act. 6. councell imaginibus non exhibuerunt nec etiam diuinae crucis effigiei nec etiam vnquam inuisibilis incomprehensibilis naturae imaginem appararunt Diuers are of opinion that not the image is to be worshipped but that which is represented by the image as Durand lib. 3. sent dist 9. q. 2. and Alphonsus à Castro in verb. imago and that is also signified by these two verses Sabellici lib. 8. Aenead 8. Nam deus est quod Imago docet sed non deus ipsa Hanc videas sed mente colas quod cernis in ipsa The meaning of these verses is that not the image