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A44191 Lord Hollis, his remains being a second letter to a friend, concerning the judicature of the bishops in Parliament, in the vindication of what he wrote in his first : and in answer to ... The rights of the bishops to judge in capital cases in Parliament, cleared, &c. : it contains likewise part of his intended answer to a second tractate, entituled, The grand question touching the bishops right to vote in Parliament, stated and argued : to which are added Considerations, in answer to the learned author of The grand question, &c., by another hand : and reflections upon some passages in Mr. Hunt's Argument upon that subject, &c., by a third.; Second letter to a friend concerning the judicature of the bishops in Parliament Holles, Denzil Holles, Baron, 1599-1680.; Holles, Denzil Holles, Baron, 1599-1680. Letter of a gentleman to his friend.; Atwood, William, d. 1705? Reflections upon Antidotum Britannicum. 1682 (1682) Wing H2466; ESTC R17318 217,539 444

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doubtful_a to_o he_o who_o these_o lord_n be_v whether_o the_o prelate_n or_o the_o lord_n particular_o name_v and_o plusour_n autres_fw-fr signior_n under_o which_o he_o say_v very_o probable_o the_o lord_n spiritual_a may_v be_v comprise_v i_o see_v a_o truth_n can_v come_v clear_o from_o he_o a_o thing_n that_o be_v most_o clear_a he_o make_v it_o doubtful_a and_o one_o thing_n he_o say_v most_o false_o of_o a_o petition_n command_v to_o be_v read_v numb_a 29._o en_fw-fr cest_fw-fr parliament_n per_fw-la les_fw-fr prelate_n &_o signior_n piers_n du_fw-fr parliament_n by_o the_o prelate_n and_o lord_n peer_n of_o parliament_n which_o petition_n he_o will_v have_v to_o be_v concern_v this_o matter_n which_o be_v most_o false_a for_o that_o which_o be_v say_v numb_a 29._o be_v of_o a_o petition_n and_o write_v of_o error_n present_v by_o william_n de_fw-fr montague_n earl_n of_o salisbury_n which_o be_v then_o read_v and_o nothing_o at_o all_o concern_v gomenitz_n and_o weston_n 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his_o whole_a pamphlet_n he_o do_v but_o verba_fw-la dare_v take_v verba_fw-la word_n as_o in_o opposition_n to_o reality_n and_o truth_n for_o it_o be_v full_a of_o falsehood_n or_o take_v word_n in_o opposition_n to_o matter_n and_o good_a sense_n for_o his_o whole_a book_n be_v a_o very_a bundle_n of_o word_n without_o any_o good_a matter_n in_o it_o but_o one_o thing_n more_o i_o can_v but_o observe_v it_o be_v his_o insist_v so_o much_o upon_o a_o thing_n which_o i_o be_o confident_a himself_n do_v not_o believe_v though_o i_o have_v know_v a_o teller_n of_o story_n tell_v one_o of_o his_o own_o invention_n so_o often_o that_o at_o last_v himself_o have_v begin_v to_o believe_v it_o to_o be_v a_o truth_n it_o be_v that_o after_o the_o name_v several_a lord_n and_o end_v with_o some_o baron_n there_o be_v a_o general_a expression_n ●…t_a plusour_n autres_fw-fr signior_n baron_n &_o bannerette_n and_o many_o other_o lord_n baron_n and_o banneret_n my_o confident_a gentleman_n have_v the_o boldness_n to_o add_v under_o which_o probable_o the_o lord_n spiritual_a may_v be_v comprise_v which_o he_o know_v the_o prelate_n of_o those_o time_n if_o they_o have_v be_v concern_v in_o it_o will_v never_o have_v endure_v and_o the_o clerk_n of_o the_o parliament_n will_v as_o soon_o have_v eat_v fire_n as_o have_v enter_v it_o so_o then_o in_o the_o case_n of_o the_o murderer_n of_o john_n imperial_n a_o public_a minister_n 3_o r._n 2._o because_o i_o observe_v that_o it_o be_v express_v in_o the_o parliament_n roll_n that_o the_o bishop_n be_v not_o present_a at_o the_o frame_n of_o the_o act_n to_o make_v it_o treason_n in_o they_o which_o i_o grant_v in_o other_o place_n of_o my_o letter_n they_o may_v have_v be_v be_v to_o pass_v a_o act_n of_o parliament_n in_o a_o legislative_a way_n my_o gentleman_n be_v please_v to_o say_v that_o i_o forget_v myself_o in_o truth_n no_o i_o do_v suppose_v it_o and_o do_v suppose_v it_o to_o be_v a_o good_a argument_n à_fw-la minore_fw-la to_o show_v that_o the_o prelate_n be_v then_o so_o modest_a as_o to_o withdraw_v upon_o the_o pass_n of_o a_o law_n for_o the_o great_a punishment_n of_o such_o a_o capital_a crime_n which_o in_o strictness_n perhaps_o they_o do_v not_o need_v to_o have_v do_v much_o more_o than_o will_v they_o avoid_v the_o sit_v as_o judge_n to_o take_v away_o life_n in_o a_o judicial_a way_n which_o they_o can_v no_o way_n pretend_v to_o but_o my_o gentleman_n love_v to_o quarrel_n and_o scribble_v paper_n though_o to_o no_o purpose_n to_o the_o case_n of_o sir_n ralph_n ferrer_n 4_o r._n 2._o he_o only_o sing_v over_o his_o tedious_a plain_a song_n that_o under_o the_o general_a word_n of_o lord_n of_o parliament_n bishop_n may_v be_v comprehend_v and_o therefore_o he_o will_v have_v it_o that_o they_o must_v be_v so_o and_o much_o good_a may_v it_o do_v he_o with_o his_o crambe_n bis_fw-la cocta_fw-la i_o may_v say_v centies_fw-la cocta_fw-la for_o i_o think_v he_o serve_v up_o this_o same_o dish_n a_o hundred_o time_n in_o this_o his_o learned_a treatise_n but_o i_o may_v not_o let_v pass_v what_o he_o say_v upon_o the_o case_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o norwich_n 7_o r._n 2._o how_o extreme_a false_o he_o recite_v thing_n take_v all_o upon_o trust_n how_o this_o man_n or_o other_o man_n cite_v a_o record_n but_o never_o see_v the_o record_n itself_o which_o perhaps_o he_o can_v so_o much_o as_o read_v he_o desire_v it_o may_v be_v take_v notice_n of_o that_o for_o those_o misdemeanour_n he_o be_v adjudge_v to_o make_v fine_a and_o ransom_n to_o the_o king_n and_o that_o the_o judgement_n be_v pass_v upon_o he_o by_o the_o lord_n by_o assent_n of_o parliament_n where_o he_o say_v he_o hope_v i_o will_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o there_o be_v bishop_n present_a and_o for_o this_o send_v i_o to_o cotton_n abridgement_n 7_o r._n 2._o n._n 23._o but_o if_o he_o will_v have_v look_v upon_o the_o parliament_n roll_v he_o will_v have_v find_v this_o perquoy_fw-fr del_fw-it a●…ent_fw-fr des_fw-fr countess_n baron_n &_o autres_fw-fr signior_n temporelz_n presentz_n en_fw-fr ce_fw-fr parliament_n est_fw-fr assentuz_fw-fr &_o accordez_fw-fr que_fw-fr vous_fw-fr soiez_fw-fr en_fw-fr la_fw-fr mercile_fw-fr roy_fw-fr &_o mis_fw-fr au_fw-fr fin_fw-fr &_o raunceon_n pour_fw-fr vostre_fw-fr malfait_o solonc_fw-fr la_fw-fr quantitée_n &_o qualitée_n dicell_n therefore_o by_o the_o assent_n of_o the_o earl_n baron_n and_o other_o lord_n temporal_a present_n in_o this_o parliament_n it_o be_v agree_v and_o accord_v that_o you_o shall_v be_v at_o the_o king_n mercy_n and_o put_v to_o fine_a and_o ransom_n for_o your_o misdeed_n according_a to_o its_o quantity_n and_o quality_n you_o see_v now_o how_o this_o man_n will_v impose_v upon_o we_o and_o what_o stuff_n he_o bring_v to_o make_v good_a his_o assertion_n if_o i_o have_v be_v guilty_a of_o such_o a_o falsehood_n i_o shall_v have_v hear_v of_o it_o to_o purpose_n that_o both_o my_o ear_n will_v have_v ring_v again_o and_o no_o ink_n this_o gentleman_n can_v have_v get_v black_a enough_o to_o set_v it_o out_o in_o its_o colour_n then_o he_o come_v to_o the_o case_n of_o michael_n d_o la_fw-fr poole_n 10_o r._n 2_o where_o he_o say_v the_o same_o thing_n he_o do_v before_o and_o which_o i_o have_v already_o answer_v so_o to_o that_o i_o refer_v you_o the_o next_o be_v the_o 11_o r._n 2._o where_o the_o prelate_n withdraw_v from_o parliament_n by_o reason_n of_o matter_n of_o blood_n which_o be_v then_o to_o come_v into_o agitation_n enter_v a_o protestation_n with_o a_o salvo_n to_o their_o right_n of_o sit_v in_o parment_n which_o my_o gentleman_n will_v have_v to_o be_v mean_v even_o of_o their_o be_v present_a at_o the_o agitation_n of_o those_o matter_n if_o they_o be_v so_o please_v this_o have_v be_v treat_v of_o before_o at_o large_a already_o to_o which_o i_o refer_v you_o i_o will_v only_o observe_v this_o further_a at_o present_a out_o of_o the_o word_n of_o their_o protestation_n first_o they_o say_v quia_fw-la in_o praesenti_fw-la parliamento_fw-la agitur_fw-la de_fw-la nonnullis_fw-la materiis_fw-la in_fw-la quibus_fw-la non_fw-la licet_fw-la nobis_fw-la aut_fw-la alicui_fw-la eorum_fw-la juxta_fw-la sacrorum_fw-la canonum_fw-la instituta_fw-la quomodolibet_fw-la personaliter_fw-la interest_n ea_fw-la propter_fw-la pro_fw-la nobis_fw-la &_o eorum_fw-la quolibet_fw-la protestamur_fw-la &_o eorum_fw-la quilibet_fw-la hic_fw-la presen_v etiam_fw-la protestatur_fw-la quod_fw-la non_fw-la intendimus_fw-la nec_fw-la volumus_fw-la sicuti_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la non_fw-la possumus_fw-la nec_fw-la debemus_fw-la nec_fw-la intendit_fw-la nec_fw-la vult_fw-la aliquis_fw-la eorum_fw-la dum_fw-la de_fw-la hujusmodi_fw-la materiis_fw-la agitur_fw-la vel_fw-la agetur_fw-la quomodolibet_fw-la interest_n sed_fw-la nos_fw-la &_o eorum_fw-la quemlibet_fw-la in_o ea_fw-la parte_fw-la penitus_fw-la absentaxe_n this_o they_o declare_v that_o it_o be_v not_o lawful_a for_o they_o nor_o any_o of_o they_o
in_o convocation_n as_o i_o have_v sufficient_o i_o hope_v make_v appear_v pag._n 19_o 20_o etc._n etc._n of_o this_o discourse_n as_o also_o that_o they_o have_v the_o appellation_n of_o baron_n and_o peer_n not_o that_o they_o real_o be_v so_o which_o must_v have_v ennoble_v their_o blood_n but_o in_o respect_n of_o their_o tenure_n in_o capite_fw-la sicut_fw-la baroniam_fw-la or_o per_fw-la servitium_n baroniae_fw-la and_o for_o the_o most_o part_n so_o call_v by_o themselves_o only_o our_o author_n suggestion_n p._n 151._o that_o they_o sit_v in_o parliament_n in_o a_o double_a capacity_n 151._o as_o it_o be_v new_a so_o be_v it_o not_o solid_a he_o say_v when_o they_o sit_v in_o the_o house_n in_o a_o judicial_a way_n they_o sit_v only_o in_o the_o capacity_n of_o temporal_a baron_n and_o that_o this_o appear_v by_o the_o constitution_n of_o clarendon_n where_o the_o king_n require_v their_o attendance_n as_o his_o baron_n but_o that_o in_o their_o legislative_a way_n they_o have_v a_o far_a capacity_n as_o represent_v a_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n i_o say_v this_o fancy_n be_v new_a for_o i_o do_v not_o believe_v any_o before_o he_o look_v upon_o they_o as_o represent_v a_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n and_o not_o represent_v it_o i_o know_v they_o have_v be_v say_v to_o sit_v in_o respect_n of_o their_o possession_n which_o be_v temporal_a in_o their_o own_o nature_n but_o not_o so_o when_o give_v deo_n &_o ecclesiae_fw-la but_o that_o they_o sit_v in_o any_o other_o quality_n than_o spiritual_a person_n i_o never_o hear_v nor_o can_v conceive_v methinks_v if_o they_o have_v a_o capacity_n to_o sit_v in_o the_o quality_n of_o temporal_a baron_n they_o shall_v also_o have_v a_o capacity_n to_o change_v their_o spiritual_a robe_n and_o put_v on_o temporal_a the_o constitution_n of_o clarendon_n he_o say_v require_v their_o attendance_n in_o judicature_n as_o his_o baron_n and_o from_o thence_o will_v infer_v they_o sit_v in_o the_o quality_n of_o temporal_a baron_n but_o how_o do_v this_o follow_v i_o hope_v they_o may_v sit_v as_o spiritual_a baron_n but_o when_o all_o be_v do_v this_o allegation_n of_o he_o be_v not_o sincere_a for_o the_o word_n be_v debent_fw-la interest_n judiciis_fw-la curiae_fw-la regis_fw-la sicut_fw-la caeteri_fw-la barones_n or_o cum_fw-la caeteris_fw-la baronibus_fw-la that_o be_v to_o say_v it_o be_v their_o duty_n to_o be_v present_a in_o trial_n in_o the_o king_n court_n with_o the_o other_o baron_n or_o as_o the_o other_o baron_n be_v there_o present_a which_o word_n be_v far_o from_o infer_v that_o they_o sit_v there_o in_o the_o quality_n of_o temporal_a baron_n no_o more_o than_o the_o judge_n rather_o that_o they_o sit_v not_o as_o baron_n at_o all_o but_o only_o among_o they_o who_o be_v so_o it_o be_v evident_a therefore_o that_o his_o first_o argument_n draw_v from_o the_o constitution_n of_o clarendon_n be_v not_o solid_a his_o next_o 151._o suggestion_n that_o they_o be_v a_o three_o estate_n in_o parliament_n if_o by_o parliament_n he_o mean_v their_o convention_n in_o convocation_n from_o the_o issue_v out_o of_o writ_n to_o the_o guardian_n of_o the_o spiritualty_n in_o the_o vacancy_n of_o the_o episcopal_n see_v i_o shall_v not_o contend_v with_o he_o only_o i_o think_v it_o from_o hence_o plain_a that_o they_o have_v right_o to_o sit_v as_o member_n of_o the_o convocation_n proper_o where_o with_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o brethren_n they_o make_v up_o a_o three_o estate_n in_o which_o writ_n there_o be_v general_o a_o clause_n of_o praemunientes_fw-la add_v to_o show_v that_o other_o clerk_n be_v to_o be_v choose_v to_o sit_v in_o convocation_n for_o which_o reason_n the_o guardian_n in_o their_o vacancy_n have_v their_o writ_n direct_v to_o they_o lest_o the_o convocation_n shall_v not_o be_v full_a now_o how_o this_o can_v prove_v they_o a_o three_o estate_n in_o the_o lord_n house_n i_o shall_v be_v glad_a this_o author_n will_v instruct_v i_o so_o that_o his_o conceit_n of_o their_o sit_v there_o in_o a_o double_a capacity_n be_v of_o no_o weight_n and_o all_o his_o precedent_n cite_v to_o that_o purpose_n may_v have_v be_v spare_v which_o do_v not_o in_o the_o least_o measure_n prove_v that_o the_o bishop_n sit_v in_o the_o lord_n house_n as_o a_o three_o estate_n because_o clerk_n shall_v be_v choose_v to_o sit_v in_o convocation_n by_o writ_n direct_v to_o the_o guardian_n of_o the_o spiritualty_n where_o there_o be_v no_o bishop_n or_o when_o they_o be_v beyond_o sea_n rather_o evince_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o convocation_n to_o meet_v in_o consultation_n as_o to_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n which_o be_v only_o proper_a for_o their_o function_n last_o let_v it_o be_v observe_v that_o his_o quotation_n out_o of_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n pag._n 93._o as_o to_o doctor_n standish_n his_o case_n be_v mistake_v the_o author_n word_n be_v the_o judge_n say_v the_o lord_n spiritual_a have_v no_o place_n in_o 184._o parliament_n by_o reason_n of_o their_o spiritualty_n in_o which_o respect_n in_o truth_n their_o place_n be_v in_o convocation_n but_o by_o reason_n of_o their_o temporal_a possession_n that_o be_v hold_v their_o tempoporal_a possession_n in_o nature_n of_o barony_n the_o scope_n of_o that_o book_n be_v to_o show_v that_o a_o parliament_n may_v be_v hold_v without_o they_o who_o indeed_o be_v no_o baron_n but_o have_v liberty_n to_o sit_v among_o they_o by_o a_o indulgence_n in_o respect_n of_o their_o possession_n and_o at_o last_o i_o be_o persuade_v our_o author_n will_v hardly_o be_v bind_v by_o that_o opinion_n for_o if_o that_o be_v true_a how_o can_v they_o sit_v there_o as_o a_o three_o estate_n if_o their_o right_n to_o sit_v there_o be_v only_o as_o temporal_a baron_n this_o authority_n be_v only_o from_o kelway_n 7_o hen._n 8._o 184._o see_v the_o case_n at_o large_a in_o burnet_n our_o grand_a questionist_n go_v on_o and_o endeavour_n 260._o to_o prove_v and_o clear_v that_o intricate_a matter_n as_o it_o have_v be_v make_v touch_v the_o interest_n the_o clergy_n then_o have_v in_o parliament_n as_o well_o as_o convocation_n but_o chief_o to_o prove_v that_o all_o the_o interest_n they_o have_v in_o parliament_n be_v not_o mere_o upon_o the_o account_n of_o their_o temporal_a barony_n which_o the_o bishop_n and_o many_o of_o the_o abbot_n than_o have_v this_o he_o say_v be_v the_o great_a but_o common_a mistake_n of_o the_o author_n of_o the_o letter_n it_o be_v first_o to_o be_v observe_v that_o he_o have_v not_o prove_v that_o to_o hold_v land_n by_o baron-service_n and_o to_o be_v a_o baron_n be_v all_o one_o which_o by_o i_o be_v leave_v doubtful_a as_o appear_v by_o what_o be_v say_v in_o the_o first_o chapter_n of_o this_o treatise_n neither_o see_v i_o any_o reason_n why_o tenere_fw-la per_fw-la baroniam_fw-la shall_v make_v a_o baron_n more_o than_o tenere_fw-la per_fw-la militare_fw-la servitium_n shall_v make_v a_o knight_n second_o that_o 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258_o to_o a_o a_o 263_o wherefore_o the_o point_n of_o conquest_n examine_v and_o what_o improvement_n be_v make_v of_o the_o admittance_n of_o it_o 293_o to_o 300_o constitution_n of_o clarendon_n expound_v and_o the_o bishop_n wing_n clip_v there_o 144_o to_o 166_o convocation_n of_o the_o clergy_n 81_o 82_o 127_o 137_o saint_n 290_o corporation_n a_o account_n of_o they_o and_o of_o their_o ancient_a interest_n in_o parliament_n 276_o to_o 286_o 3d_o part_n coventry_n its_o first_o representation_n in_o parliament_n b_o b_o 279_o crime_n some_o that_o do_v laedere_fw-la majestatem_fw-la regiam_fw-la not_o capital_a 172_o in_o marg_n curia_fw-la regis_fw-la of_o various_a acceptation_n 150_o curia_fw-la regis_fw-la how_o far_a mr._n w._n and_o mr._n hunt_v agree_v with_o the_o author_n against_o dr._n brady_n as_o to_o its_o be_v distinct_a from_o the_o general_n council_n of_o the_o nation_n v_o 204_o objection_n against_o they_o where_o their_o notion_n of_o it_o differ_v from_o 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testimony_n 97_o 98_o 125_o 167_o 168_o r_o 261_o plain_a deal_v 147_o plea_n of_o the_o earl_n of_o danby_n o_o 197_o pool_n william_n duke_n of_o suffolk_n 13_o t_o 286_o pool_n michael_n case_n 33_o 34_o r_o 272_o precedent_n urge_v against_o lord_n hollis_n make_v for_o he_o 14_o proctor_n or_o proxy_n why_o the_o bishop_n desire_v to_o make_v they_o 12_o concern_v their_o make_v they_o 46_o 162_o 197_o 199_o b_o 200_o 201_o 204_o 205_o proprietor_n of_o land_n as_o such_o their_o interest_n in_o the_o great_a council_n of_o the_o kingdom_n y_o 230_o 231_o and_o b_o b_o 273_o to_o 291_o protestation_n of_o the_o lord_n hollis_n his_o sincerity_n 6_o protestation_n make_v by_o the_o bishop_n 11_o r_z 2_o 5_o 6_o 7_o 8_o 41_o 42_o 43_o and_o o_o 185_o to_o 194_o protestation_n in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n spiritual_a and_o temporal_a 8_o 13_o protomartyr_n 49_o q._n question_n concern_v the_o bishop_n state_v 10_o 11_o r._n recapitulation_n of_o argument_n against_o the_o 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