this booke there is nothing contrarie or preiudiciall therevnto which no profession that relyeth only vpon scripture can doe because they must first be assured of the text before they can iudge of the doctrine wherefore if the text itselfe neede a iudge and that it is questionable whether this be the true text or no they must needes be at their witts end according to the principles of raison Let vs therefore see what ambiguitie or question falleth vpon the text it selfe by the succession of so manie ages in which it must needes haue beene in some sorte conserued to come to our hands There be three wayes cheefely whereby the text may haue beene corrupted Three Waies haue corruptions come into the Text. The first on sett pourpose as the fathers accuse the Heretickes of their times to haue done and the Iewes also are suspected of the same And this kinde though it extendeth it selfe but to few corruptions yet they come to be ineuitable wheÌ„ amoÌ„gst soe manie copies none can discerne which haue beene so abused which not and as it is but in few pointes or places so it is in such as bee important and materiall ones The second sort of corruptioÌ„s may haue come by the negligence of seruants which copied the Bible some being mercenarie people that made copies to sell others wittlesse people who greedie and desirous to haue the Bible out of vanitie hypocrisie or the like cared not for more then to saie they had it and a great part of these copists may haue erred in writing the Bible by the verie defect of nature which permitteth not an absolut exactnesse in anie thing and causeth a man in his wearinesse nay and in his too much warinesse also to make escapes vnwittingly which be the more dangerous by how much the copies seeme more exact whereby some times the beare downe true copies The third waye of corruption may haue beene by halfe-witted men who will now and then vndertake to correct copies by ayme and vnderstaÌ„ding who for hauing lighted right in some one place will venter confidently to spoile tenne And of these men t' is like before printing began and copies were not so frequent and so a corruption went not farr t' is like I say there hath beene diuers who wheÌ„ they mett with a place they could not make sense of and saw that a litle change would make it sense such rash their would easily vener to make such a smale as they thought mutation not knowing peradueÌ„ture how to come to a better copie then their owne The Hebrew and Greeke Testament haue beene verie subiect to the first sorte of these corruptions the former being deliuered vnto vs by the professed enimies of Christ who as it is reported in the greatest heat of their hatred to Christianitie sate at Tiberias to determine all the vowels of the ould scripture the which euerie Hebritian knoweth what power it gaue them to change the whole text and this to men publickely accused of forgerie in that kinde The Greeke as long as the coÌ„demned Heretickes held so great power in those parts 〈◊〉 is publickely knowne they did for some ages was in litle lesse jeopardie they being also taxed with the like impietie But the other two wayes and meanes of corruptions are common to all and in deede vnauoidable in so great a multitude of copies as were in all the three languages at least of Greeke and latin And now cozen can you tell mee what hazard this must needes breede in the text it selfe that is What vncertaintie the errours §. 5 of writers and copists hath bredd in scripture NEPHEW Nay mary that posseth my vnderstanding for if I should calculate so manie copies to haue beene mâ—de and then estimate what errours may haue escaped in euerie copie the number peraduenture would exceede the words of the Bible For let vs take a boke of 2000. columnes and let vs likewise suppose which is verie likely that as manie copies were made in some age of an hundreth yeare and let vs then put 56. lines to a columne and 6. words to a line and so there will be in one columne 336. Words And farther may wee not well suppose that there was as manie faults escaped in euerie copie one with an other as there bee words in a columne which being supposed you will finde that the number of all the errours escaped in all the copies which haue beene made since the Apostles time will amouÌ„te to 15. or 16. times as manie as there bee words in the Bible Wherefore by this accompte it would be 15. or 16. to one of anie particular place that it were not the true text Which me thinkes cannot be true Vncle. I doe not thinke that you haue taken your proportions too high for if you looke into the most part euen of printed bookes of such a great volume as the Bible is revewe them well and you will finde a whole columne of errata in euerie one and you know printing is donne with more ease and lesse toile to the braine and hath ordinarily 2. or 3. corrections before it be drawne which helps written copies haue not But yet I must tell you that you missed it in one thing you marked not that the errours of so manie copies may haue beene the same in diuers of them otherwise truly your calculation would proue that wee migh looke for scripture in scripture and not finde it and the like with some proportioÌ„ in all bookes I saie with some proportion for to thinke alltogether the like of Cicero Demostenes and others is not reasonable because there were few copies made of them as only for some curious and learned men whereas the Bible concerned euerie man so nearely that few would be with out it that could vnderstand Lattin And yet I doubt not but you remember well inough since you were a student what varietie of texts and pretentions of corruptioÌ„s you found amongst the Critikes and commentaries euen of those prophane authours And to your calculation I will add an other suppose there were as manie written copies extant as the number of your columnes and as much varietie in those which haue not beene examined as in those which haue beene looked into And farther that Sixtus Quintus for the setting out of his Bible caused only an hundred to be examined And that in his Bible the corrections amounte as it is knowne they doe to the nuÌ„ber of two thousand doe you not see that the computation made of the various sections of all those copies would make twentie for euerie coluÌ„ne And truly wee caÌ„not imagine that there hath beene so for ether Latin or Greeke copies And whereas in this computation wee only esteeme them to haue beene but 2000. suppose as it is verie like that there hath beene at least an hundreth thousand in ether language in so manie ages and in so great an extent of readers And those which are not Extant Whereof none in particular can be
a perfect beleeuer that is a Catholike Which is as much as to aske §. 13 How scripture doth determine controuersies NPEHEW How should I know that vnlesse I were able to prooue my Religiō out of scripture or at least that I were able to giue a iudgement of all that is in scripture Which is beyond my capacitie Vncle. Then I will tell you cozē there are two meanes to make one a Catholike or a true and perfect belieuer The one by shewing euerie point of our faith in particular And this I dare not saie that our common and ordinarie manner of reading or hearing scripture is able to doe for we see those who write of controuersies doe alledge but few places nor those vnauoidable nether for some pointes of Catholike doctrine Nor is it to be expected Because man's nature being euer to add to what is alreadie learned And seeing likewise that long practise maketh men perfect in all arts There being no prohibitiō to perfect in some sort the instruction of the faithfull the oeconomie of the church and some such other things which the oppressed Primitiue church could not bring to perfectiō no maruelle I saie if these and the like things can not in particular be shewd in the scripture but shall therefore I know not who rise vp and exclame these things be superstitious hurtfull to the faithfull ād make a schisme to destroy them Who doth not see that this were plaine faction and Rebellion The other meanes or waye to make one a Catholike is by some common principle as if by reading of scripture wee finde nothing contrarie to the Catholike tenet or practize which our Aduersarie call's in question or also if wee finde it commēded there in generall or the authours and obseruers of it praised and extolled And in this waye I doubt not but a sensible and discreete reading of scripture at large may and will make anie true student of it a perfect beleeuing Catholike so he proceede with indifferēcie ād with a minde rather to know scripture then to looke for this or that point in it But now can you tell me cozē how it cometh to passe that sithence by an exact and particular examinatiō of the words of scripture these truths cānot be conuinced and beaten out of it how I saie is it possible that by a common and ordinarie reading of it these truths should appeare for that cānot be in the summe which is not in the particulars Nephew I can tell you that there is the same difficultie in the diuers sights of the walle which you made me experiēce but euen now but to yeild you a good reason ether of the one or the other that passeth my vnderstanding Vncle. Haue you not seene an inuētion of the Architects who can so dispose pillars in a gallerie that setting your eye in a certaine position you shall see the figure of a mā or a beast and walking a long the gallerie to goe to it it vanisheth awaie and you shall see nothing but pillars Or haue not seene a silinder or pillar of glasse before which if you laie certaine papers full of scrawolles and scrables and looking into the pillar you shall see the picture of a man or the like As these are dōne so it happeneth in our case both in the eye and in the vnderstanding For the art of these things is that certaine parts may so come together to the eye as that other parts ether by situation or by some other accident remaine hidden and that those parts which appeare being seene without the others will make this or that shape In our case likewise the quantitie of the seene parts exceeding the vnseene keepes the whole possession of the eye in the sight and of the vnderstanding in reading not letting the reste appeare And hence it is also that this common manner of vsing scripture is more secure then the exact ballancing of it For nether the varietie of translations nor the errours of copies nor the difficulties of languages nor the mutabilitie of words nor the multiplicitie of the occasions and intentions of the writers nor the abundance of the things written nor the different framinges of the bookes which be the causes of vncertaintie in a rigorous examinatiō haue anie such power as to breake the common and ordinarie sense or intention of the writer in generall as all bookes testifie vnto vs. And hence it is likewise that the holy fathers pressed scripture against the Heretickes of their times partly forced therevnto because the Heretickes generally will admitte of no proofe but out of the scripture but cheefly by reason their workes are diffuse and oratoricall befitting people vsed to orations and sermons as the Greekes and Romans were diuers of the fathers them selues bredd in that sort of learning Wherefore you shall haue them cite manie places some proper some Allegoricall some common all some times auoidable if they be taken seperatly but the whole discours more or lesse forcible according to the naturall parts or heauenly light more or lesse communicated to one then to an other yet still in the proportion of oratours who speake to the multitude and not to Socrates or Crysippus Wherefore the scripture in this kinde was a fitting weapon for them and the churche's continuing and reremaining in their doctrine sheweth that they vsed it dexterously and as it ougth to be vsed with relation and dependance of tradition Nephew Why then sir must all disputatiō of Religiō out of scripture be abolished For if there can bee no certaintie gathered out of it in a decisiue ād definitiue waie to what pourpose should a man ether alledge it or admitte it in disputes of Religion at least tell me I pray §. 14 What laws are requisite for disputation out of scripture VNCLE I am farr frō disliking disputation out of scripture so it be donne with those conditions which are fitting and which may bring the matter to some vpsh ott The first rule I would haue a Catholike obserue is not to dispute with a Protestāt vnlesse he promise to proue his position euidently and manifestly For since the Catholike knowes there may be certaine wittie probabilities and hard places of scripture brought against him it were madnesse in him to leaue his tenet custome optima legum interpres stāding for him and the practize of the church being on his side which is the greatest argument that can be brought to shew how and in what sēse the scriptures which that church hir self deliuereth are to be vnderstood it were I saie meere follie in a Catholike to leaue his tenent and accept of an other only for a probable and likely interpretation his owne being confirmed by that practize which maketh it more then probable And it is cleere the Protestant must needes pleade against possession for at the first breaking when the Protestants pretended to reforme the church she was surely in possession of those things which they pretended to take awaie and in
of such an Apostle so by litle and litle it grew froÌ„ one countrie to an other vntill it was spredd ouer the whole Christian world So that some countries had not the new Testament complete that is all the bookes of it for a long time Wherefore no wonder that some haue doubted of seuerall parts thereof being not able to auerre as not assured by reason of some accident that such bookes were truly the workes of such an Apostle or Disciple which not withstaÌ„ding Why the canon of scripture is cheefely to be had from Rome better intelligeÌ„ce being gotten might be afterwards receiued for scripture And here you may note by the way that the Roman church is that church to which in reason wee ought to giue most credit touching the canon of the scripture For Rome being at that time â—that is at least for the first 300 yeares to the Christian world or rather to all the Christians dispersed in diuers parts of the world as London is to England And that wee see the collection of things estimable dispersed in seuerall Prouinces of our Kingdome is sooner and better made in London then in anie other part of our Countrie it must needes follow that the collection of the Holy scripture or new Testament was more exactly faisable at Rome then at anie other place But this by the way For my ayme is to make you iudge whether anie one substantiall point The state of the questioÌ„ which the Apostles whith common conseÌ„t preached through the whole world compared to anie one booke of the new Testament which soeuer you thinke first or best receiued whether I say of these two haue descended vnto vs with more certaintie the one to be the Apostles doctrine the other to be such an Apostle's booke Nephew I should distinguish your question for ether it may be compared to that particular Prouince or church where the Apostle him selfe deliuered it both in word and writing or to the whole church And I confesse that in respect of the whole church that point of doctrine which is euerie where preached must needes haue more certaintie but where both are equaly deliuered by the same Apostle to the same church I should thinke the worke should haue more authoritie theÌ„ the word For t' is an easie matter to let slipp a word some times Whereas writing requireth a more setled consideration Vncle. If the question be but of a particular church or Prouince I doubt it will not be sufficient to giue vs a firme authoritie for ether one or the other vnlesse we add more circumstances then we haue declared And the reason is because one Prouince maye haue had Religion so ruinated in it by the incursion of infidells that recouering theÌ„ selues after a long time they may as well mistake one booke for an other as one doctrine for an other and so this point is not much to our pourpose Although euen in this case the doctrine taught by word of mouth hath these aduantages That it is deliuered to manie the booke to few or in some one place The doctrine heard and vnderstood by manie the booke only to such as can reade nor to all them nether but to such as are carefull The booke belonge's not much to the practize of the multitude the doctrine gouernes their whole liues The booke brought often times by some one maÌ„ as some messeÌ„ger if it be an Epistl or other wise sent from some other place or froÌ„ some one person as from Titus of Timotheus to whom it was first written and vpon whose authoritie only the whole veritie must originally rely But to returne to our case Doe you not see that the whole church trusteth some one particular man at the first vpon whom she buildeth hir beliefe tht this is such an Apostles worke that is scripture But for anie materiall point of doctrine she relyeth vpoÌ„ the vniuersall knowledge of theÌ„ who heard it preached in diuers parts of the world So that as I doe not intende to say the one is certaine the other not for a particular churche's authoritie may be certaine in some circonstances yet I must needes say that betwixt these two certainties there is such a differeÌ„ce that if the one were to bring in verdict vpon the other it would be much more forcible and euident to conclude that this booke is scripture because it is according and conformable to the doctrine taught and preached then that this doctrine is the Apostle's because it is conformable to this booke For if it be true that the whole church once relyed vpon some one particular church for this veritie it can neuer come to passe that the certaintie of this booke proue greater then was the authoritie of that particular church at that time And consequently the same comparison which is to be made betwixt the authoritie of this particular church and of the vniuersall church the same I say is to be made betwixt the certaintie of this booke 's being scripture and of this point of doctrine's being catholike and Apostolike And for the inconuenience you were jealous of it falleth out quitt contrarie For whether we considere the inspiration and assistance of the holy ghost or the industrie aed carefullnesse of man you shall euer finde that the end is more principally aymed at then the meanes to compasse the end and likewise amongst diuers meanes the most immediate to the end is still most aymed at wherefore in our case the end both of writing and speaking being the deliuerie of this doctrine for the good of the people no doubt I say but that both the AssistaÌ„ce of the holy ghost and the care of man tendeth more principally to the deliuerie of this doctrine then to other things that came in by chance in which only there might be a slipp as you immagine Wherefore sithence tradition containeth not all the words the Apostles spoke but meerely what belong's to ChristiaÌ„ doctrine which was principally deliuered and the cheefe errand of the Apostles and that in the scriptute manie things are written vpon occasion and as it were by the bye no doubt but in both these respects to wit of the assistance of the holy ghost and of the care of man the certaintie will be greater of the doctrine deliuered by word of mouth theÌ„ of the holy writt Besides the slipps you speake of are when things are only once deliuered or spoken without great premeditation whereas this doctrine was a thing perpetually beaten on so as there can be no feare of such slipping HoW the old Testament came to Christians hands For the ould TestameÌ„t as I confesse t' is possible that the Apostles might haue deliuered it in all Countries where they preached so likewise I thinke t' is euident that they neuer did it being that the church hath no such memorie And that the Canon hath beene doubted of by some and the Iewish Canon alleadged whereof there had beene no vse nor neede if the
taken which I coÌ„ceiue is caled Equiuocation The origine of equiuocation And sithence there is no other grounde for ether of these significations but man's will which cannot be easily demonstrated I know not well how the truth can bee certainly knowne Vncle. You saie verie well for the signification of words must needes depende of maÌ„'s will and of the custome or vse of them two verie mutable things Wherefore separating these two and taking words in them selues you shall finde that man's will doth put diuers significations vpon the same word ether by chance or onsett pourpose by chance as you declared but now which in deede doth not teach to manie words but is casuall as the cause of it is on sett pourpose and that ether for want of words or by desire of elegance and varietie in our deliuerie And this belongeth to allmost all the words wee haue for there is scarsely anie word if you note it but may be so vsed and if it may be so taken it is so one time or other This multiplicitie of variously taking words in Logicke is said by who maketh the least to be eight fold for some make no end of multiplying the sortes of it And vnder the name of Equiuocation or Analogie it much confoundeth all scholasticall learning Now for the custome and vse of words there be manie things to be respected as the varieties of times and qualities of persoÌ„s for in one time a word may signifie one thing and in an other a quite differeÌ„t thing So wee see that those who write of eloquence giue words their births â—nd ould ages And likewise who knowes not how great difference there is betwixt the vse of words in the Court or vniuersitie or great cities and the vse of the same words in remoter parts and villages Nay if you marke it you shall finde that as languages in generall are the institution of a multitude of men so almost euerie particular man is Master and as it were founder of some particular expressions or phrases not common to others whereby some declare them selues more exactly and plainely others more confusedly and ambiguously in so much that Critickes curious in antient Writings Will attribute or derogate certaine workes from Authors vpon this only ground And now I pray cozen in such an antient writing as the scripture is how manie ambiguities may grow from all these principles Or rather what certaintie can be had out of such multiplicitie of vncertitudes But let me particularly vrge one thing that is whether t' is possible that a language should be entirely conserued in written bookes which still remaine the same Nephew Why not if there be bookes enough How a laÌ„guage is conserued for then all the words of that language may be found in them in all their senses and then I thinke the language cannot perish Vncle. Your answere is partly true but not sufficient for you were to considere whether so manie bookes of one language may haue beene conserued for if the Countrie be litle few bookes will be written in the language but if the language be dispersed through manie Countries it will haue it 's proper words and significations for euerie Countrie So that bookes being written for the subiects and not for the language as Dictionaries and phrase bookes are it must needes follow that only so much of the language will be conserued as is necessarie for the vnderstanding of those bookes which of them selues are so good as that the people will still desire to haue them and continue them Wherefore nether all bookes that are written nor if we iudge by these of our time anie notable part wil be conserued nor yet the whole language contained in all the bookes that are written And if part of the language be lost part conserued of necessitie the conserued part must be imperfect by the mistake of such words as be rarely found and where they are found only ghest at by the rest which are to make sense with them And all this equiuocall ambiguitie is purely in the bare words not yet placed in construction Nephew I thinke so vncle for altough I see there be cases numbers moodes tenses and persons in euerie language yet I hope those doe rather take awaie equiuocation then make it Vncle. It is true those things are made to take awaie equiuocation but if you reflect you shall finde that the want of them and the confused or vnexact vse of them doth likewise cause it and where they are more aboundant as in some languages there the abuse of them is more frequent people being in nothing more vnwarie theÌ„ in their words And where they are but rare and few that likewise of it self causeth ambiguitie And if you will looke into those particular languages wherein the scripture was primitiuely written you shall finde that the Hebrew hath eight moodes wholy different from anie of ether the Greeke or Latin moodes and euer varying the sense as much as the actiue and passiue doe in Latin and Greeke The Greekes haue seuen tenses all of different significations and of numbers genders persons three a peece The Latin six cases So that you see new occasions of Equiuocation almost in euerie word and consequently what obscuritie and doubtfullnesse must of necessitie follow anie language or sense relying vpon words and yet for breuitie sake I haue not tould you the half of what the matter giueth me scope to saie for the scripture dependeth and hath beene originally written in more languages then I haue spoken of Where of some haue much more varietie then anie of those that I haue expressed For coÌ„struction you may first conceiue that the verie pointing and accenting of words doth beget a number of doubts and Equiuocations a diuers comma or virgula making some times the sense quite different Secondly that word which is construed with an other to cleere the signification of it is some times it selfe of no lesse ambiguitie then the other Thirdly in the same construction it may happen that the same two words will haue diuers senses And of all these your Grammer and Oratory Masters doe enlarge their precepts And aboue all there is an Equiuocation in the most commoÌ„ words wee vse rising out of a kinde of custome depending of particular times and places which the compilers of the Ciuill law thought to be of so great importance as that they iudged it necessarie to make a speciall booke de vsu interpretatione verborum and that for the commonest words that were in vse These reasons being vnauoidable in anie language by human industrie are more then sufficient to let you see that t' is impossible to conuince and demonstrate anie thing out of bare and dead words and that who vndertakes such a taske doth not see what hee attempteth Nephew If all these things bee true which you tell me I wonder with what face anie man can pretende to conuince pointes of controuersies so clearely out of the scripture
which some doe with such cōfidence for surely they must ether be proude dunces and ignorant doltes not vnderstanding what is proofe and what is not or else preuaricating miscreants counterfeiting what they doe not belieue and thinke our learned men vnable or vnwilling to discouer the follye of theyr enterprise Vncle. Your bloode is too hot nephew but if you said only that such men as promise them selues victorie with so much confidence in this case are rash and vnaduised I should thinke you wronged them not For the truth is there 's none but is so in his measure And where interest or affection is ioyned to some litle apparēce which the first sight of the text affordeth there 's presently a great impression made It is true in so graue and important a case they ought to be more staied but he whose conscience quitteth him from all too forward iudging of his neighbours euen in matters of consequence let him cast the first stone for mee I will leaue them to them selues and let you see that we are not yet at an end but farther §. 9 That there riseth an vncertaintie out of this that the scripture was written in languages now ceassed FOr not only the languages in which the Holy scrtpture was writtē doe of their owne nature as I tould you breede great ambiguitie in the text but also in this that those languages are now extinct And therefore wee see that the knowledge of them is not cōmon ad vniuersall but only of some particular men and amongst them in most things mainely controuerted And of this disputable vncertaintie amongst our famous linguists none can be ignorant the nūber of Critickes in this age and the multitude of their volumes giue sufficient testimonie of it The vncertaintie of criticisme Nay they will tell you that an exact and skillfull knowledge in this Criticisme is a necessarie part and qualitie for all those who will professe the studie or interpretation of scripture And yet God knowe's vpon what slight grounds they proceed what weake ghesses are their iudgmēts how full of quarells and mistakes so that a wise man no sooner seeth them but seeth likewise that there is nothing but varieties of disputs vpon coniecturall probabilities and neuerthelesse you shall haue thē cry out runne to the fountaine goe to the spring see the originall texts not considering that there is nothing there but trubled waters that is obscure cōiectures I could tell you also that often times it happeneth that such as are imployed in the translations of these ambiguous originalls haue got by friēds and fauour that preferment and so haue let passe some places in their trālations which I could cite against their owne iudgment to complie with the will of their patrons and higher powers whom they durst not resiste But in deede their principles in them selues are so vncertaine as that the best and wisest of them will confesse they haue beene often mistaken and will not sticke to chāge their mindes now and then euen in such pointes as they thought they had the greattest euidence their art could aftord them What thinke you then deare cozen would become of Christian faith if it were only to relye vpon such a weake fundation Which must needes follow if the most substantiall pointes of Christian Religion must haue their only warrant and decision from the bare written word and bee euer agitated by places of scripture and neuer concluded by a definitiue sentence Were it not too tedious I would let you see the vncertaintie of diuers particular languages wherein seuerall parts of the scripture are said to haue beene originally written but I will only tell you in a word §. 10 What vncertaintie followeth the two particular languages of Hebrew and Greeke wherein the scripture was written FIrst therefore the Hebrew hath two proprieties verie considerable the one that it is thought to be the shortest language in the world the other that it is the most eloquent For the first it cōsisteth cheefely in the writing of the words and in the scarcitie of bookes For the writing all the vowells are supposed not expressed in the originall copies and therefore only conserued by memorie and to memory we must trust for them I confesse they are now expressed by pointes wherein there is great mistaking the rules thereof being verie vncertaine and the more in that these rules and the practize of them were varied according to the diuersitie of the countries wherein the Iewes haue beene dispersed The reason of their writing without points I conceiue was becaus their vowells being at the first but fiue by making long and short grew to be more and so the first figures of them to stand only for the consonant vse of some vowells or els to haue no sound But what soeuer the origine was the effect must of necessitie breede a great obscuritie and doubtfullnesse in the language the vowells though fewer yet in vse being verie neere as much as the consonants The words are all of one or two sillables if anie be of more they are accounted exoticke and therefore verie like one an other which is also increased by the neerenesse of diuers of their letters So that both their pronuntiation and writing being easily mistaken and confounded bring 's a great disorder in the language This is likewise augmented by the want they haue of coniunctions and prepositions which not being of a sufficient number make the construction verie equiuocall manie times For the scaretie of bookes you may well conceiue it if you doe but know that the legitimate Hebrew is wholy contained in the old scripture whereof some parts were not written in Hebrew and if you saw the booke in a smale print and yet the letter bigger then our litle latin character you would see it is but a verie litle booke And what soeuer besides is written in Hebrew is not warrantable to explicate the text The Rabins affecting manie diuersities as well in words and stile as in writing Nay perhaps I might add to this that the characters them selues haue beene wholy changed since the beginning and that it is credibly reported to haue beene once lost and restored only by the memorie of Esdras So that we haue the least assurance of this language that almost can be of anie not entirely extinguished For the proprietie of the Hebrew 's Eloquence it consisteth cheefely in figures translations and number Figures or schemes are the highest part of proper Rhetoricke because they contayne the greatest force and swaye that words can giue to our appetit and if they bee rightly applyed carrie a way the auditor euen against his will vnto a strong and sadaine action These although the Prophets vse them more perfectly then euer anie Poet or Orator did yet doe they not cause much obscuritie vnlesse it be when they are vsed in Dialogue forme which where it is vsed in scripture t' is hard to discerne How soeuer they are a conuincing proofe that who
vseth them much inteÌ„de's not his writings should be dogmaticall and decisiue Translations or metaphores are cause of great obscuritie and therefore we see the Poets who cheefely vse them are not to be redd vntill a man be exercised in theÌ„ without studie and paines Nor doe anie Greeke or Latin examples shew that strength which the scripture hath in this kinde The number or Cadence which one would thinke could not be suspected of anie such matter is a cause of great ambiguitie for the Hebrews being wholy giuen there vnto in their scripture haue so manie accents of diuers effects whereof one manie times staÌ„deth for an other or is like an other in figure that you had neede of an Ariadne to lead you thorough Some of their accents are Grammaticall some Rhetoricall some musicall and as much a doe with them as with the reste of the words and verie hard it is to know when it is one accent when it is an other and when it hath this effect when that Who therefore would haue recourse to the Hebrew Text for precise and conuincing decisions doth like him that being not skillfull at his weapon would choose vpon a challenge for the hower of his combat a moonelesse midnight when the skill of his enimie could not preiudice him Nephew Marrie sir I thinke such a man should doe wisely for the question being not of fencing but of valour his enimie's skill would be no disaduantage vnto him But yet I cannot commende him that chooseth obscuritie for the decision of a doubt vnlesse he feare his cause and thinke him self in the wrong and then peraduenture his witt may be commended Vncle. It is sufficient for mee that you conceiue that this is not the way to cleere the truh To the Greeke text therefore which I will tell you that the ambiguitie of it is nothing so great as of the Hebrew yet hath it two defects The one that it wanteth those sense varying coniugations whereby the Orientall languages expresse them selues the other that by abundance or rather redundance of vnprofitable varieties it is both hard to learne and vncertaine in seÌ„se the same word signifying diuersly ether because of diuers Dialectes or of diuers applications of authours so manie hauing written in seuerall countries not depending one of an other and hauing great diuersitie of phansies Their prepositions both in constructioÌ„ and composition are irregular changing some times the sense of the primatiue verie extrauagantly in so much that meere ghesse and coniecture must preuaille the word if it be coÌ„mon being vsed in sundrie seÌ„ses if it be rare the meaning of it must be gathered out of some thing adiacent Nephew Here is enough vncle of this verball and GraÌ„maticall stuffe Wherefore I will now put you in minde of your promise to wit that you will tell mee to what end the scripture was left to the church since by reason of it's ambiguitie it is not fit to be a judge of controuersies Vncle. I will tell you presently but first I haue a word more to saie vnto you wherein because I see you are half wearie I wee wil be short and it shal bee to shew you §. 11 That the verie nature of the bookes of scripture is not fitting to decide controuersies TEll me then cozen suppose you were to giue a law in writing which should last for manies ages and be obserued in manie couÌ„tries how would you cause it to be written I meane not for the language but for the frame of the worke and for the manner or methode of the deliuerie of it Nephew I doe not professe my self able to bee a law-maker yer according to the example of our laws and of the ciuill law In What forme laws ought to be made and I imagine the like of the laws of other countries it were me thinke's to be donne thus I would first cause the most commoÌ„ things to be commanded then by degrees I would descende to particulars still obseruing that seuerall matters should be vnder seuerall chapters or diuisions and not one peece here an other there euerie chapter containing all things necessarily belonging to that matter Farther I would distinguish the degrees of commandes by the degrees of penalties and rewards And if anie thing were fit partly to be declared partly to be left to discretion I would expresse so much that there might be no mistake As for the stile I would endeauour to make it the most proper and exact that possibly I could explicating ambiguous words to my power and declaring in what sense they were to be taken cutting of all superfluous words which might anie waye confound or prolong the sentences without necessitie In fine I would labour to make it the most ordinarie the most plaine and the most short that my witts could reach vnto and then according as I should haue followed these rules I should thinke to haue performed my raske Vncle. I see you would make a good states man And if reason teach you this will not the same reason tell you likewise that if the Authour of reason him self were to giue a law would he not doe the same in a more perfect degree And if in anie booke he hath not donne it doth not the same reasoÌ„ tell you that his intention was not that that booke should be a iudging law Let vs therefore see whether these conditions be obserued in the scripture or no And if it be manifest that the scripture hath them not this controuersie must needes be at an end sithence it will euidently follow that God neuer ordained the scripture for anie such pourpose but for some thing els and consequently that it were as ridiculous to seeke the decision of controuersies out of scripture as to cut with beetle or knoke with a strawe Deuiding therefore th holy scripture you shall finde The diuision of the â—ookes of the old TestameÌ„t that the bookes of the old Testament sauing Deuteronomie which is or containeth the old law with much admixtion of historie are ether Historicall oratoricall poeticall or Philosophicall Whereof the three first are excluded by their verie names from the qualities and conditions of a law instituted for the deciding of quarells though some coÌ„mandes may be therein contained vpon occasion The philosophicall bookes are such as touch litle vpon our coÌ„trouersies because they are but ether morall instructions for the life and conuersation of men amongst their neigbours or else they treate and speake only of such pointes as wee and all our Aduersaries agree in But in deede there is a maine reason against the whole text of the old law which is that the commandes were giuen as we saie personally to one people and did no farther belong to the rest of the world then in that they were naturall commandes that is in the vertue of nature obliging to obedience So that who soeuer will argue out of the old Testament must first proue the commande to be naturall which if he doe
hee needeth not produce the text for it The new Testament is Historicall Epistolar The diuision of the bookes ef the new Testament or Misticall which by their verie names and natures exclude all such exactnesse as of necessitie is required to a iudging law they being all written vpō speciall occasions and for particular ends manie things repeated manie things left out in one which are found in an other scarsely anie one knowing of an others writings Those things which are in the Historie and in the Epistles are expressed as was fitting for the vnderstanding of them to whō they were written or to whom the recited speech was made circumstances farr different to what is conuenient and accōmodated to our vnderstandings now And as an able mā saith of historie that because it must needes leane and rely vpon all circumstances euen of smale moment he that should gouerne him selfe by it must of necessitie be misled so in our case the want of knowing circumstances and not comprehending the true meaning of what was written in a particular occasion must of necessitie make vs apt and subiect to take our ayme and rule amisse The misticall booke which we call the Apocalips being a pure Allegorie is the most vnfitting of all This in my iudgment is so euident that if anie man of common sense would but reflect and really considere what is requisite to determine a litigious controuersie betwixt two men passionate of their owne opinions he would neuer saie that scripture is a booke ether intended by Allmightie God or anie waie fit for such a pourpose Besides a prudent and experienced man will tell you that who looketh in to the various dispositions of men's vnderstandings but especially of men's wills and seeth the varietie and miltiplicitie of men's interests and passions Which for the most part are publickly noted in euerie mā or at least so inwardly hidden and secretly couered that some times euen he who would and doth sweare and protest him self free from all such pre-occupations is neuerthelesse the most dangerously intangled that such an one I saie will neuer thinke to finde two in two thousand who left to their owne libertie will agree in the interpretatiō of anie law how plane soeuer where both are oppositly interressed But if wee put this law to be supernatural and Deuine full of misticall and sublime commandes wherevnto nature hath not the least inckling whereby to raise hir self to the knowledge thereof but must of necessitie wholy and precisely rely vpon authoritie and captiuate hir vnderstanding in obsequium fidei and this to the most obscure and darke points and articles that can be imagined shall wee saie that in this case euerie one is to gather this law and come to the knowledge of it as well as he can out of the scripture alone so full of infinite ambiguitie as you haue seene Were it not first to be proued that scripture was made and intended for this end which how possible it is to performe let anie indifferent mā iudge Whereas to remitte the iudgment of all quarells disputes and controuersies of Religiō vnto liuing men is more efficacious more sutable to nature and discretion and in a word conformable to the practize of our forefathers and to the principles of common sense and reason Nephew I must confesse I shall neuer thinke scripture was giuen for a iudge of controuersies For to make so large a booke and to mingle in it so manie things which ether appertaine not at all to the substance of our beliefe or be verie remotely cōnexed vnto it And then to leaue it to our ghessing what may be the meaning of the words doth plainely argue some other intention in the writer then to set downe a standing and authenticall text to decide quarells And although I heare the Protestants saie that a plaine passage cleareth an obscure so may it be said that an obscure passage darkeneth a cleere so that 's all one Wherefore I long to know for what vse the scripture was made Vncle. Haue yet a litle patience cozen Diuers substantiall points haue beene opposed by antient Heretickes and make a reflexion vpon some cheefe pointes which haue beene cōtrouerted in the church of God As by the Arrians how a spirituall ād indiuisible essēce such as God is coulde haue a natural sonne By the Trinitarians and Sabellians how the same indiuisible thing could bee three persons By the Nestorians and Eutychians how one person could subsiste in two natures By the Pelagians how God's foreknowledge and predestinatiō could stand with merits and freewill By the Iconoclasts how the adoration of Images tended and ended in the Archetype By the Berangarians how a naturall bodie can haue corporall presence otherwise then by it's quantitie By our Wicklefists how all things be not gouerned by a fatall necessitie And all these renewed by the libertie and confusion of our last ages Considere the subtilitie of these questions how they are aboue nature and aboue our comprehensiō how the truths of these disputes are like the passage betwixt Scylla and Charybdis limited betwixt two errours so narrowly as that when they are spoken of at large and not dogmatically specially before they be examined and before the speaker by mistrust of opposition is made warie it is almost impossible the speaker should be so iust and straight in his language as not to giue occasion to one who comes after him to pretende his fauour for the one or the other errour Considere farther that wrangling witts such as for the most part they are who first beginne a new factiō in the church haue this property that they reduce their questions by litle and litle to logicall and abstracted notiōs and force the Catholikes to follow them if they will not desert their antient truths so that after a while one knoweth not where the controuersie lyeth For example Simon Magus and the first authours of our last Breaches preached that faith did so iustifie as that good workes were not necessarie now their followers drawe the question to this whether faith or charitie be the forme of iustification which is all most pure Logicke Now if an Arrian come and tell you that the scripture saith Pater maior me est and therefore that Christ Iesus was not truly God nor consubstantiall to his father And the like maie be said of the rest of these heresies and euen of all the most substantiall and fundamentall points of Christian faith The Catholike maintaine's the cōtrarie now I saie is it possible that anie rationall man should thinke that these and the like questions can be diffinitiuely resolued by a criticall libratiō of dead and vncertaine words full of equiuocall ambiguitie their sense and meaning lying in the brest and minde of him who is not to be found but deceassed manie ages agone And if they cannot as it is more then euident they cannot shall wee thinke that Christ Iesus hath left and established no meanes
two Protestants of one Religion They Tiffâ—â—iâ— so manie points that they daâ—â—â— one the other for 〈◊〉 belieuers Doe but examine whether the positions wherein they disagree amoÌ„gst themselueâ— be not of as maine importance as those wherein we differ from them all and you shall finde manie of theÌ„to be the verie same Naythere be not two Doctors or persons bere in England of one Religion no nor two laye men who giue them selues to expound scriptures and make their priuat spirit iudge of their beliefe and tenets And this not only because so manie variable phaÌ„sies grounded euerie one vpoÌ„ it selfe cannot possibly agree wherevpon you shall hardly see two meete and conferre of ReligioÌ„ but they will disagree if they talke long but also because all knowledge hath it's vnitie from some setled and certaine principles which being not to be found out of the Catholike church in matters of Religion there can be no vnitie or beliefe amongst Protestants For althought our ParlemeÌ„t hath comanded diuers articles to be â—â—ght in the churches of England yet doth not the Protestant Clergie acknowledge that the Parlement who are theâ—â—â—â—â—ke and taught by the 〈…〉 anie power to iudge or determine pointes of doctrine And in deede it were ridiculous for those who thinke that an vniuersall CoÌ„gregation of Bishopps and the bodie of the whole church may erre in beliefe should 〈◊〉 no attribute this vâ—errable power to their owne schollers Nether doe they that I know of but still mantaine constantly their cheefe grounde that all when are fallible and subiect to erre why Protestants ought not force anie man to belieue with them Where by the way you may note how hardly they deale with Catholikes in punishing them for professing a different faith from theirs seeing that if we belieue differently we must needes professe differeÌ„tly and they by their owne confession not hauing anie authoritie whereby they can or ought force anie maÌ„ to belieue as they doe t' is euident that they must per force contradicte their owne principles if they will persecute vs. Now therefore seeing that to be of one faith is to be of one setled opinion and setling cannot be without infalibilitie or necessitie the Protestants hauing no common principles which them selues esteeme infalible euerie maÌ„ expounding scripture their only rule of faith at his pleasure nor anie hauing power or authoritie to controle an others interpretation of anie passage what soeuer t' is impossible anie two ministers should be of one faith and Religion T' is true per chaÌ„ce they may be of one minde to day but eare night if ether of them light of a place of the scripture which after more consideration seemeth to haue an other sense then he thought before they may well be of different opinions And this in what pointe how materiall or essentiall soeuer These men therefore may be said to be some times of one minde or opinion but neuer of one faith and Religion faith being like mariage not to be taken vp for a yeare and a day but for all Eternitie The learned Catholikes be more learned then the learned Protestants And now to returne to the discourse we ayme at As the number of our learned men doth farr exceede the number of learned Prostants so likewise by all likelyhood doth their learning The English Diuinitie generally speaking is nothing but controuersies which are but the fourth or fift part of Catholike Diuinitie For besides controuersies we haue scholasticall Theologie which explicate's the mysteries of our faith and shewe's their conformitie to nature and naturall reason We haue morall Diuinitie which searche's into the practize of the Sacraments aÌ„d Precepts of good life We haue scripture lessons which diue into the deepe sense of the written word of God without farther application We haue misticall Theologie which examine's the extraordinarie waies of conuersation with God And lastly we haue Ecclesiasticall historie which shewe's the progresse increase and practize of Christian faith through all ages and places And of all these we haue I doe not saie bookes or volumes but whole libraries written and extant amongst vs. And for other eruditions as languages Poetrie Rhethoricke Logicke and Philosophie if the Protestants haue anie let them looke into their samples and they shall finde the most eminent and worthie men to haue beene and to be Catholikes so that as of all ReligioÌ„s the Christian so of all Christian's the Catholike is without questioÌ„ the most wise and the most learned profession And what I saye is not to be sought out in old manuscripts or learned papers your eyes and eares will tell it you in Catholike countries and euen in Paule's church yard where you may finde multitudes of volumes of all these sorts of learning written by Catholikes And if their shopps were well shaked vp I doubt not but for bookes of worth except some English pamphletts and a few controuersies one hundreth for one would be found to haue beene written by Catholikes What apparence theÌ„ can there be that the Protestants arguments should be so mightie and so cleerely better then what Catholikes can saie for them selues as to beare downe the right of Antiquitie and possessioÌ„ whereof the Catholikes are the sole Claymers Nephew I cannot denie but that your discourse is sound and grounded vpon common sense and vpon such euidence as when I was in Paris I heard was there to bee seene but my minde was then more fixed vpon the Tennis court then vpon such enquiries But why might not one replye that all this and more is necessarie for the iustifying of so euill a quarell If Catholikes be not honest and vertuous men the more learned they are the more daÌ„gerous and more able to mantaine a false position And t' is like the Protestants would replye in this manner for they tell vs that the Pope hath gotteÌ„ so mightie a power ouer our verie vnderstandings that for manie ages we haue bent all our witts how to mantaine his tiles aÌ„d decrees without anie care of truth or probabilitie wherefore the more wit and learning the more blindnesse of passion and interest As the learned Catholikes are more learned theÌ„ the learned ProtestaÌ„ts so they are more vertuous then they Vncle. I did not thinke that learning had deserued so ill at your hands as to censure it so seuerely No no coseÌ„ one maÌ„ or two or three may be the more daÌ„gerous for their learning but not whole multitudes For of it 's owne nature it is a great instrument of vertue being the CompanioÌ„ of truth so that there can be no greater signe of truth in anie ReligioÌ„ then to see it beare the touch of reason and that the professors of it be addicted to learning Besids I pray remember I speake to one who professeth no schollershippe and therefore doe not inquire what is or is not but what is most likely and apparent It must therefore be knowne that the Religion is false before it can
haue the same effect yea nature it self and it's Author would be ouercome if such long violence could so oppresse it as to extinguish it It being nature's cheefe flower and greatest treasure planted by the expresse handy worke of the omnipotent and wise framer thereof Nephew Your discourse seemee's good for I see that meÌ„ who in a case of great importance will not be content with what is proportionall to their capacitie but seeke a certitude so great as them selues are not capable to iudge of being not beaten to thoses sciences in which such certaintie is vsuall those men I saie must needes come short of what they desire if truly they doe desire it for I belieue the affectioÌ„ of wealth pleasure or some fore-made iudgment doth carie them against the simple and plaine directioÌ„ of free reason How soeuer vncle seeing it was so easie for the church to haue beene conserued entire in faith me thinke's it should not be hard to shew in effect and in particular from age to age that it hath beene conserued Vncle. If we could proue that Bishops ether in Generall or Nationall Councells had once in two or three hundreth yeares taken care that no corruptioÌ„s should be introduced this might be effected but that depende's vpon bookes 〈◊〉 and historie which you and wil not now medle withall Nephew I belieue those histories are not so doubtfull but that generally Protestants doe aÌ„d will acknowledge theÌ„ And by my pore skill I know that there neuer passed 300. yeares since Christ's time without a Councell and without condemning some hereticke so that t' is cleere the church hath had sufficieÌ„t care in this kinde Yet because I haue heard your self complaine of the slouth of men who seeke not into the grounds of scieÌ„ces and often saie that fair more theÌ„ is might be knowne if the principles were rightly laide for it and the waie trodden nay that all God's workes hang so together by connection of causes and effects as that there 's no effect whose cause by diligence might not be found I must therefore intreate you to condescende a litle euen to the hardnesse of those men's harts who require more in this subiect then in anie other and seeke the cause why the church and faith of Christ cannot faille For sitheÌ„ce we haue found by experieÌ„ce these 1600. yeares that it hath not so failed as that it hath not euer beene generally and vniuersally visible and hath both dured and florished thus long surely it hath some forcible cause and in deede such an one as can neuer faile but will still worke the same effect And this were to shew That noe great errour could creepe into the church of God VNcle Cosen you laie toâ—â— what aske vpon me Who knowe's why the world hath dured thus long Or why mankinde was not extinct manie yeares agoe And must I tell you why God's church hath not nor cannot faile I am ashamed to answere euerie licentious braine the negatiues of a wittie naturalist may pose the most learned Christian vpon earth Yet to content you I will endeauour aboue my strength but you must ease me a litle and answere me to what your self see 's euident First you know that the church being the Congregation of the faithfull cannot faile but by the losse of faith How faith is lost And faith may be lost two waies by ignorance or by errour For so we see a particular man who once had faith if he come to loose it t' is ether by negligence and not conning it and so forgette's it or else 〈◊〉 disswaded from it and induced to belieue some differrent doctrine So likewise to a multitude of men the one or the other must needes happeÌ„ or else they cannot be depriued of the faith which they once had And because pure ignorance is a meere negatiue or not knowing the first question I will aske you is Whether you thinke a people once instructed in anie Religion can so forget it as that they fall not into some other Religion â—â— but liue quite without anie Religion at all Nephew Truly I thinke it impossible both because I neuer heard of anie nation that had no Religion at all no not the Caniballs as also because I haue heard that absurde Religions haue continued from father to sonne for manie generations together and neuer left vntill an other Religion was brought in and then too with much adoe the people being loth to be drawne from their former beliefe Yet if one should confidently saie the contrarie why all people haue some Religion I doe not know how to conuince him Vncle. You must looke into the causes which make men Religious aÌ„d if you finde theÌ„ to be vniuersall and perpetuall you may be sure that all sortes of Peoples haue some Religion in theÌ„ though more or lesse according as these causes are more or lesse in force amongst them But lett vs knowe can you tell me what is Religion in generall as it is commone to both true and false Nephew I imagine Religion to be a conceite or persuasion of the people concerning one or more what is ReligioÌ„ in generall excellent natures which gouerne humane life giuing vs those goods which of our selues we cannot attaine vnto aÌ„d inflicting vpoÌ„ vs those paines whereof we doe not knowe the causes And this persuasion reacheth also to the manner and forme of pleasing this or these Gouernors and commanders Whereby to obtaine goods and eschew euills And the reason why I make this conceite of Religion is because I see these things are in all sorts of Religion and all authours which write of the Religion of what nation soeuer touch cheefely these pointes Vncle. Your remarque is good Which be the causes of ReligioÌ„ and Why it cannot perish and if you looke into your definition you shall finde the causes of Religion You saie Religion is a conceite of the Gouernors of man's life in giftes and punishments whose causes we doe not knowe Then you see Religion must needes be a faith for when we doe not know things we cannot make anie conceite of theÌ„ but by belieuing and trusting others whom we thinke know the things that we know not and therefore Religion in generall is taken vpon trust Farther you saie that ReligioÌ„ is a methode of pleasing those Gouernors whereby to get goods and eschewe euills so that the desire of goods and the feare of euills are the authors and causes of Religion we haue then hopes and feares for the will ignorance and a conceite of an other man's knowledge for the vnderstanding which be the parents of Religion Now thinke you cosen can these causes be defectiue and fayling in anie age Nephew Surely they cannot For it were no generation of men but beasts that were so doÌ„ltish and sottish as to see so manie goods and harmes which happen to all men wee know not whence and thinke that there were no cause thereof And therefore it is the