fourth booke of his ecclesiasticall historie of our Church FVLKE The decree of the Constantinopolitan councell in sense is the same with the former but not word for word nay almoste it hath neuer a word alike But it is to be vnderstood of publike penitentes to be bounde or loosed according to their qualitie of the offence the greatnes of their repentance The words are these It behoueth that they which haue receiued of god the power of loosing and binding consider the qualitie of the sinne and the readines of the sinner vnto returning that so they maie vse a medicine fit for the disease lest if they should determine of sinne without difference they should erre from the health of the sick person For the disease of sinne is not simple but diuerse and of manie formes and budding vp with manie hurtfull branches by which the euill is spred farre and wide and creepeth so farre vntill at length it withstandeth the vertue of that which healeth Therefore he that will shew what skill he hath in the spirituall art of healing must diligentlie search out how he that hath sinned is affected whether he incline vnto health or contrariwise by those manners to which he is familiarlie accustomed prouoke the diseased to looke against him and whether he by him-selfe obeyeth his Master or whether the sore of the minde doth encrease by medicins that are laid to it and so mercie is to be bestowed by equall measure For there is great regarde both with God and with the gouernour of this pastorall care to bring home the wandring sheepe and to heale it being wounded by the serpent and neither to thrust it downe by the hedlonges of desperation nor to loose the raines vnto dissolution of life and contempt but by all meanes as well by sharp medicines as by gentle to withstand and striue that the sore maie be healed that he which knoweth the fruites of repentance maie wiselie gouerne the man being called vnto that heauenlie glorie Therefore he ought to know both kindes of medicines as well them that be of rigor as them that be of pittie and not to follow them which haue taken in hand onelie the vpper face of figures that are deliuered as Saint Basill hath taught vs. In this Canon there is no worde of confession or whereby the necessitie of confession maie be inferred vpon all men for their secret offences Neither can it be prooued that the penitentiarie priest once abrogated by Nectarius was euer restored The schoolmes opinion we are no more bound to follow in this then in other pointes of poperie Saint Bernard alloweth in deede confession made vnto the Priests and ministers of God but the necessitie thereof he doth not laie as a clogge on mens consciences The like I saie of S. Bede who in the booke and Chapter by you quoted speaketh of one Adamanus a scot who hauing committed some great wickednes in his youth when he considered the greeuosnes of his fact was in great distrust of minde and comming to a priest of whome he hoped that the waie of saluation might be shewed vnto him he confessed his guiltines and desired him to giue him counsell how he might auoid the wrath of God that was to come After this manner to come to confession we denie not but it is most expedient for them that are not quiered in conscience but that al men are bound by this or any other example to make a perticuler rehersall of their sinnes to a priest before they can haue remission Beda neither here nor els where teacheth ALLEN Before him S. Gregorie so well liketh and knoweth this practize of sacramentall confession that in his Pastorll he prescribeth the Priests of Gods Ghurch manie waies how to seeke out the diseases of their peoples soules and according to the varietie of the same to admit or put backe to pardon or to punish yea so plaine he is in this matter that he chargeth the Priest to be exceeding grieuoslie punished that in anie case shall vtter the Penitentes confession or anie parte thereof Againe farre aboue these holy Leo the great amending the hard custome that in some places of Italie Campania was vsed touching publike confession of priuat sins he saieth Reatus conscientiarum sussiciat solis sacerdotib indicari confessione secreta Quamuis enim plenitudo fidei videtur esse laudabilis que propter Dei timorem apud homines eruhescere non veretur tamen quia non omnium huiusmodi suntpeccata vt velint in poenitentiam ed publicari remoueatur tam improbabilis cohsuetudo ne multi à poenitentiae remedijs arceantur dum aut erubescunt aut metuunt 〈◊〉 sais facta suareserare quibus possint legum constitutione per elli Sufficit enim illa confessio quae primùm Deo offertur tunc 〈◊〉 saccrdoti qui pro debitis confitentium precator accedit Tunc enim demum piures ad poenitentiam potuerunt prouocari si populi auribus non publicetur conscientia confitentis It is enough that the guilt offences of mans conscience be opened to the Priests alone in secret confession For though the foruour of faith be verie laudable which is content for Gods sake to be ashamed before men yet because the sinnes of euerie man be not such that the penitent would gladlie vtter openlie let so raprobale custome be abolished lest manie be holden from the remedies of penāce whiles either they are ashamed or feare to open their deedes to their enimes by whom they might by order of law be punished For that confession is sufficient which is made first to God and then to the Priest also who will be an intercessour for the sinnes of them that confesse For then might moe be prouoked to penance if the secret conscience of the confessed be not published to the eares of the people Thus saith Saint Leo a man of that time and credit as our aduersaries would wish Let them saie now that priuat confession began in the Lateran Councell because that thing which euer was counted and vsed as necessarie was there decreed for the amending of the peoples sloth to be done euerie yeare once at the lest before they receiued the blessed sacrament As truly maie they saie that the Euchariste and receiuing thereof was begune in the same Councell by the verie same Canon For as there is charge that euerie man should be confessed so there is commaundement giuen that euerie man shall receiue once a yeare the blessed Sacrament So litle care they haue what they saie so that they saie enough to beguile them that can skil of nothing FVLKE Yf Saint Gregorie in his pastorall or els where had written any thing that might but make a face of the necessitie of auricular confession you would haue set downe some parte of his wordes or at least quoted the booke and Chapter where we might finde them but in trueth there is no such matter in all that worke conteining three
diuine contemplation by those praiers that are sent vp vnto him Thus much Eusebius of the sacrifice of Christians As for Theophylact in the place by him quoted wherein either his Printer or his note booke hath deceiued him hath nothing touching this matter in question but vpon the 10. Chapter he hath the verie words of Chrisostome which I haue sette downe at large before Suboritur hîc quaestio c. Here riseth a question whether we also do offer vnbloodie sacrifice whereto I answere that we do certainlie but we keepe a memorie of the Lords death and it is one sacrifice and not mante seeing he was offered vp once for all For we offer vp the same alwaies but rather we keepe the memorie of that oblation wherein he offered him felfe as if it were done euen now Thus none of the auncient writers to whome he doth referre the reader for defence of his Popish sacrifice do speake anie thing for it and some of them do write directlie against it And now the answerer thinketh he might haue ended his preface but that he promised to shew that they offer most reasonable meanes of triall and that we in deede admit none at all Of both these partes we haue spoken alreadie sufficientlie to the conscience of all reasonable men yet must we further answere to such matters as he can obiect against vs. And first he saith All the controuersie being not of the words but of the sense of the scriptures we admit no Iudge but our selues To this I answere first that all the controuersie is not about the sense onelie but some about the wordes also where we alledge the interpretation of them out of the originall tongues and they wil admit none but the vulgar translation which in manie places is false in some places also corrupted from the integritie in which it was first written Secondlie that we admit no Iudge of it but our selues it is false of vs and true of them For they admit no interpretation of the scripture but that which their Church alloweth which alloweth nothing but that the present Pope alloweth whome they make Iudge of all interpretation and to whose Iudgement they will all stand Conttariewise we take vpon vs no iudgement but that which is common to all men by reason and learning to waigh all thinges that are brought vnto vs the cheife Iudge or rule to Iudge by being the holie scriptures in places of them selues euident and confessed or to be confessed by right reason of all that acknowledge the authoritie of the scriptures by them to finde out the obscurities of such places as are hard and haue neede of interpretation But if they bring scripture saith he neuer so plaine yet will we shift it of with some impertinent interpretation whereof he bringeth two or three examples in which you shall plainlie see how like a Papist he handleth him-selfe in all kinde offalshood and treacherie The first example is this The moste of the auncient fathers write bookes in praise of virginitie aboue wedlock and vsed to prooue it by the saying of Christ There be Eunuches which haue gelded them-selues for the kingdome of heauen he that can take it let him take it Also by the words of Saint Paul he that ioyneth his virgine in mariage doth wel and he that ioyneth her not doth better Which words being alledged against M. Luther who preferred marriage yea though it were of a vowed Nunne before virginitie he answered it thus That Christ by his words terrified men from virginitie and continencie and Saint Paul by this speech did disswade them from the same Now what could be replied saith he in this case trow you He beginneth with a lie and so he holdeth on For the moste of the auncient fathers haue not written bookes in praise of virginity aboue wedlock neither is he able to prooue that the one halfe of them haue wri ten bookes of that argument although manie of them haue in their writings mentioned that comparison Secondlie in the state of the controuersie he offereth vs shamefull iniurie for we all confesse that in the respects named by our Sauiour Christ and his Apostles virginitie is better then marriage in such persons as haue the gist of continencie but not in all respects and namelie not in such respectes as the Papists do preferre it of merite for them-selues and others c. nor in persons that lack that rare gift of continencie For neither Christ nor Saint Paul do saie that virginitie meriteth more then mariage or the profession of virginitie in all men though they haue not the gift of continencie is better then a chaste life in holie matrimonie Wherefore that which we affirme against the Papists is against that which they affirme more then Christ or S. Paull spake and is more then by anie lawfull demonstration can be prooued out of their words Thirdlie in rehearsing the text against the plainnes whereof he bringeth Luthers interpretation he fraudulentlie leaueth out those wordes whereupon the exposition of Luther is grounded namely these words non omnes capiunt c. All men are not capable of this saying but they to whome it is giuen If you aske of what saying the text is plaine his disciples said vnto him If the cause of aman and his wife be so that he may not be diuorced but for adulterie it is not expedient to marrie but all men saith Christ doe not receiue or cannot take this saying For there be three kindes of Eunuches or gelded men the third onelie being voluntarie and for an excellent end is commendable so it be giuen vnto him that he maie take it He that can take it let him take it Is it not euident by this text that Christ terrifieth all such men from this high attempt to whome it is not giuen and exhorteth them onlie which haue the gift to vse it Now to come to Luthers interpretation First he saieth that Luther preferreth Marriage before virginitie yea though it were of a vowed Nunne This as it is simplie set downe is a lowd lie for Luther acknowledgeth the preferment of virginitie before mariage in persons hauing the gift and for the end and respects by Christ and Saint Paull named as by his owne wordes in diuerse places of his workes is manifest and most plainlie Exege ad Cap. 7. Ep. ad Cor. 1. Nam sicubi coniugium quis cum coelibatu conferat praestantius certè donum est coelibatus For if a man compare mariage with virginitie virginitie verilie is a better gift Concerning the mariage of a vowed Nunne if she haue the gift of continencie and will renounce the superstitious and blasphemous end for which she vowed virginitie and vse it to the glorie of God you shall heare Luthers iudgement Nec ideo caelibatum virginitatem reprobare mihi 〈◊〉 est nec inde quenquam ad iugale vinculum inuitare quisque pro dono suo diuinitus impartito vt potest feratur For
goeing into an other countrie be married to an other man Such counsell I gaue euen them when as yet the feare of Antichrist did holde me But now my minde were to giue farre other counsell and to such a husband which should with such craft beguile a woman I would laie hand on his lockes and pull him vehementlie as the prouerb is And the same I iudge of the woman although it be more rare then in men For it auaileth not anie thing to defraud the neighbour in such waightie causes as touch the bodie substance credit and happines it were needfull that he should be commaunded no tably to pay for such deceitfulnes Thus farre Luthers wordes truelie translated How say you now is not this sufficient to declare Luthers minde that he would reuoke his former counsell of priuie contract or flying awaie and compell the partie to an open diuorse But if anie man thinke this is not sufficient you shall heare what he writeth further concerning this matter while he rehearseth how many causes in Poperie are allowed for diuorces Decima quarta est quam supra recensui simaritus vxor impotentes euirati atque haec estynica inter octodecim illas causas que admatrimonium dissipandum sufficit quanquam ipsa 〈◊〉 obstringatur legibus priusquam tyranni earn permittant The fourteenth cause is that which I rehearsed before if the husband and wife be impotent and vnapt for generation and this is the onelie cause among these eighteene cause which is sufficient to dissolue the matrimonie although the same also be bound with many conditions before the tyrantes will permit it And yet againe speaking of those causes which he him-selfe allowed for diuorcement he saieth Quae nune personae segregari queant intersese videbimus Tres ergo causas noui ob quas diuortium fieri potest prima quae iam in superioribus recitataest cùm marious vxor impotentes ad rem fuerint membrorum aut naturae causa c. Now what persons may be separated one from an other we will see Three causes I knowe for which there may be diuorce The first when the husband and the wife are impotent and vnhable for the matter through cause of their members or nature howsoeuer that may be of which sufficient hath beene spoken Is not all this as plaine as can be that Lutherspeaketh of a diuorce necessarie to be had in that case As also in the same sermon afterward he teacheth that all diuorces are to be made by publike authoritie and with the knowledge and consent both of the common wealth of the Church or of one of them at the least Therefore that I maie rightlie vse your owne wordes against you which you doe vniustlie abuse against M. Charke Can this be excused from extreame impudencie and most willfull falsehoode against your owne conscience Defend this if you can with all the helpes and deuises of your fellowes er els let the reader by this one point of open dishonestie discouered iudge of the rest of your dealings and slaunderings of vs without all conscience both in your sermons and in your bookes c. Now whether he were a Papist or noe when he gaue this first counsell to such as heard shrift you moue the question and conclude against his plaine wordes as it seemeth that he was none Well let vs heare your reasons First you saie that many yeares after his conuersion he sloode in feare of the Pope and said nothing against conâ—ession How many yeares I beseech you For as soone as the Pope excommunicated him and condemned his writings to be burned at Rome he did open lie burne the Popes Canon law at Wittemberge which was Anno Dom. 1520. before that time he acknowledged the Popes authoritie and humblie submitted him-selfe to his Censure if either the grosse abuse of pardons might haue beene reformed or he him selfe conuinced by the scriptures to haue erred But from that time he neuer stoode in awe of the Pope as that open fact declared and there had passed but foure yeares before since he first began to inueigh against the abuse of pardons Your second reason is that it appeareth evidentlie by his wholl discourse in the place alledged where he saith plainlie beside other things that the Papists did seeke advantage against him for this opinion of his and to that ende did misreporte his wordes The wholl discouse I haue set downe that you may see how euidentlie it appeareth For that the Papists did slaunder him it is graunted but therebie it doth not euidentlie appeare that Luther at that time was no Papist For doth not one Papist slaunder another sometime was there not spight and malice betweene friers of other orders against them of that order that Luther was of especially the Dominicans which might cause them to peruert his words meaning As for other things beside and seeking aduantage against him for this opinion you sucked out of your fingers ends for in the wholl discourse there is no such matter Your third reason is that Papists teach no such doctrine but cleane contrarie as though some Papists haue not their priuate opinions which are not generallie receiued Neither is there any thing in substance but in circumstance contrary to the Papists doctrine in that counsell of Luthers For the Papists in the case of impotencie or frigiditie doe graunt a diuorce which Luther thought without triall of law might be made by priuate consent or in case of the impotent persons dislent by voluntarie departing of the other so that this reason disproueth him not to haue beene a Papist at that time any more then the rest The fourth reason is that putting such a thing in writing he should haue beene resisted presentlie if he had bene of your Church But that followeth not especiallie if the writing were not publike but priuate to a fewe gostlie fathers perhaps of his owne order and house and his aduise or opinion onelie not a matter obstinatelie defended And yet it appeareth that is was notwel brooked wheÌ„ his enimies had an inkeling of it Your last reason is that it appeareth by his owne wordes and the computation of time when he wrote this booke that he had left Papistrie a good while before In deede if you can conuince vs by his owne wordes that he had left Papistrie when he gaue this counsell you haue some aduantage against Master Charke but that is yet to come As for the computation of time in which he wrote this sermon of Matrimonie wil not helpe you to prooue that he was no Papist when he wrote the shrifte aduise For he speaketh of it as of matter that was verie olde olim he saieth long agoe For the booke was written much about the time of his mariage which was fiue yeare after his open renouncing of the Pope before which time he was a Papist though in some points he began to espie the grosse errors of Papistrie But as
peece of Gods worde and traditions are an other peece and this peece must be added to that or els it is not a perfect or sufficient instruction of itselfe for Gods Church The comparison you make of ioyning S. Lukes Gospell to that of Saint Matthew or Saint Paules epistles to them both to resemble your patching of traditions to the written word of God is both odious and vnlike and without begging the wholl matter in question gaineth nothing For the adding of the writings of one Euangelist to another or of an Apostle to the Euangelistes is but the heaping of heauenlie treasure to the further inriching of the Church in all light of spirituall knowledge so the accession of the bookes of the new testament is as it were the vnfolding or laying open of the same diuine riches that was perfectlie contayned in the olde testament for the saluation of all Gods elect that liued vnder that discipline But your traditions as you maintaine them argue an insufficiencie of the holie scriptures which allso you confesse your selfe and are not a more plaine or plentifull application of the mysteries comprehended in them Therefore though you can for manners sake otherwhile forbeare odious speeches aginst the dignitie of holie scriptures yet euen that odious conclusion gathered by Gotuisus must needes follow of your doctrine concerning the insufficiencie of scriptures and the necessitie of traditions That your traditions are Gods word and of equall authoritie with the scriptures you promise to shew more largelie in the twelft article together with certaine meanes how to know and discerne the same Sed haec in dicm minitave Parmeno You haue taken a pretie pause of three yeares long since you were interrupted as you 〈◊〉 in the end by a writte de remouendo But the daie will come that shall paie for all Whether anie cause or matter hath beene ministred by you of odious speeches against the dignitie of holie scriptures Mastet Charke declareth by one example out of Hosius which with all the rest that he saith you omit to answer as trifling speech to litle purpose So whatsoeuer by anie colour of reason you can not auoid by your censorious authoritie you maie contemne and passe ouer But his conclusion seemeth worthie the answer which he maketh in these wordes To conclude it is a great iniquitie to adde traditions or your vnwritten verities to the written word of God whereunto no man maie adde because nothing is wanting from which no man maie take because nothing is superfluous But to him that addeth shall the curses written in the booke be added for euer Against this conclusiō you note in the margent great iniquitie to adde one veritie to another or to beleeue two verities together A fine ieste but a grosse begging of the wholl cause For who shal graunt that your vnwritten vereties be truth and not falsehood falselie by you termed verities vnwritten There is no veritie of matters necessarie to be knowne vnto saluation which is not written in the holie scriptures that are hable to make vs wise vnto saluation But good Lord what a sturre you keepe because M. Chatk noteth in the margent Apoc. 22. ask how this place is alledged against you c. As though that which is true of one booke yea of euery booke of the scripture maie not iustlie be verefied of the wholl bodie and boke of the the Bible Because adding to the word of god argueth imperfection in the word of god Your stale obiection of Saint Iohns Gospell written after the Reuelation is alreadie answered For al bookes of scripture that haue beene written since the fiue bookes of Moses are no addition to the word of God but a more cleere explication of the 〈◊〉 first com mitted to writing by inspiration of God Neither do they teach an other waie of saluation then Moses did but set forth the same more plainlie by demonstration by examples of Gods iustice and his mercie by threatenings by exhortations by explication of his promises by shewing the accomplishment and the manner of perfourmance of them in Christ and his Church And this they do moste absolutelie sufficiently and plentifully to the saluation of Gods people These things saith S. Iohn are written that you should beleeue that Iesus is Christ the sonne of God and that beleeuing you maie haue euerlasting life in his name Here you maie as well cauill that not onelie the Gospell of Saint Iohn or the miracles written in the same is necessarie to be beleeued vnto saluation but all the rest of the scripture also foolishlie opposing thinges that are no waie repugnant but the one including the other For the beleeuing of Saint Iohns Gospell doth not exclude but include all other bookes and partes of holie scripture which teach the same meane of saluation or any thing thereto pertaining But how holdeth this argument saie you no man maie adde to the booke of Apocalips ergo no man maie beleeue a tradition of Christ or his Apostles Maie we not as well saie ergo we maie not beleeue the actes of the Apostles No sir for we make our argument in this man ner No man maie adde to the booke of the Apocalips much lesse may anie man adde to the wholl Bible of the olde and new testament And consequentlie there are no traditions of Christ and his Apostles to be credited as needefull to saluation which are not contained in the holy scriptures Thus we alledge scriptures and thus we argue vppon them not as it pleaseth you to deseant vpon our allegations and to dissigure our arguments But it is lamentable you saie to see the 〈◊〉 dealings of these men in matters of such importance It is verie true vnderstanding you and your complices to be the men that vse such fleightes in 〈◊〉 waightie causes As for our doctrine is plaine without any seame that the scriptures are sufficient to saluation therfore al tradition besides them are 〈◊〉 to that purpose But let vs see who 〈◊〉 sleightes by your iudgement First you aske Master Charke what he 〈◊〉 by adding Who doth adde Or in what sense as though his meaning and sense of adding were not manifest as also his accusation that the I suites the Papistes do adde to the word of God their traditions a necessarie to saluation yet not expressed or contained in the word of God But if God saie you left anie doctrine by tradition vnto the Church and our ancetours haue deliuered the same vuto vs especiallie those of the 〈◊〉 Church what shall we do in this case Shall we refuse it It seemeth dangerous and I see no reason The question is not whether we should refuse anie thing that God hath left but whether God hath left anie such tradition to be beleeued vnto salua tion which is not contained in the holie scriptures But if our ancetours of the primitiue Church haue deliuered anie such tradition vnwritten as left by Christ what shall we doe you
that immediately follow in Luther declare that now he would doe worsse then before for now he would compell the poore husbandes to graunt their wiues that libertie or els would he tugge them by the lockes of the heade And can there be anie more shameles dealings c. If Luther declare his opinion in the words following to be as you say I must needes confes that this was a great ouersight in Master Charke at lest if it were not shameles dealing But if Luthers meaning by the whole scope of that place be plaine not to giue the wife licence to lie with an other man the band of wedlocke continuing but to compell such an insufficient husband to be deuorced from his wife because she cannot haue the lawfull remedie of incontinency by his companie do you not plaie the papist in graine thus to exclame against Master Charks false dealing As for the phrase of tugging by the Locks being a Dutch prouerb signifying no more but inforcement to vse your owne words hath that man anie conscience trow you that will vrge it to colour such vnhonest and false accusations Verily you had bene better to haue held your peace for now you are and shal be more hereafter discouered while you slaunder him vntruely to vse deceit and do vse false plaie your selfe and that most impudentlie Another example of his false dealing you bring in the controuersie Whether concupiscense in the regenerate without consent be sinne Where Master Chark being sore oppressed by many places of Saint Augustines auctoritie brought by the Censurer findeth no other reliefe of his credit with the reader but to forge a place of Saint Augustine to the contrarie in which to deceaue the reader he foisteth in this word sinne reciting his words thus Concupiscense is not so forgiuen in Baptisme that it is not sinne By which addition of the word sinne the matter seemeth to stand cleere on his side And this cannot be excused by ignorance but sheweth open and wilfull malice in the man Hasty iudgement Peraduenture he may excuse the addition by the Printers fault and so it was neither ignorance nor malice in him But take it moste hardly that Master Chark did purposely adde the word sinne vnto S. Augustines text which yet in a strict translation where there is no neede is not alowable if it be manifest that it is Saint Augustines meaning the addition of a word for explication of the sense is neither forging nor foisting But it is most impudentlying in you sir setter forth to say he findeth none other reliefe of his credit with the reader but to adde this word sinne to S. Augustines text when immediatly after this pretended forgerie he bringeth a most cleere place of Saint Augustine in which he doth expressly affirme that concupiseense euen in them that haue the spirit of God is sinne which argueth that he needed not at al to forge and foist hauing Saint Augustines words so euident on his side and that he findeth not onely another but a farr better reliefe of his credit with trueth then he could looke to gaine if he had bene disposed to vse false dealing Master Charkes wordes are these Saint Augustines place making it no sinne in the regenerate without consent is expounded by him-selfe afterward saying Concupis cense is not so forgiuen in Baptisme that it is not sinne but that it is not imputed as sinne For a cleere proofe hereof in another booke he saieth plainly it is sinne and so shewing the occasion of his saying citeth the place at large Cont. Iul. lib. 5. cap. 3. in which are these wordes Concupiscense of the flesh against which the good spirit lusteth is sinne because there is in it a disobedience against the regiment of the minde Where he saith for a cleerer proofe it is probable that the word sinne in the formet text was not added by him at lest wise not to deceaue for with the addition you will confesse it is as cleare as can be for his parte But if he added that word as being of the plaine meaning of Saint Augustine yet subiect to cauilling because it is not in him expressed to take awaie al colour of wrangling about the terme he ioyneth a moste cleere proofe of Saint Augustines iudgement plaine that concupiscense in the regenerate is sinne in his owne nature although because it is forgiuen it is not imputed to them as sinne So that the sense is manifest that concupiscense in the regenerate is sinne but sinne forgiuen or sinne not imputed And therefore although in some sense a man may truely say that sinne forgiuen as adulterie is no sinne or sinne not imputed is no sinne because the guiltines there of is remoued from the 〈◊〉 remission couering or not imputing through Gods mercy or satisfaction of Christ yet it followeth not there of that sinne of his owne nature is not damnable because mercy hath made it remissible or that sin forgiuen as adultety or such like cannot be properly called sinne because it is pardoned but the cleane contrary doth follow of necessity euen so is cōcupiscens which is forgiuen in the regenerate yet remaineth in them not as a vertue or an indifferent thing but as an euil thing as Augustine els where confesseth yet no sinne able to condemne them because it is not imputed to them or because it is pardoned in them Therefore except you wil say that sinne forgiuen or not imputed ceaseth to be sinne in his owne nature concupiscense in the regenerate is sin although forgiuen not imputed to them But of this matter inough at this time seing it is to be handled more at large hereafter and to be plainly shewed that Saint Augustine although in some sense he say that concupiscense is no sinne yet in another sense he doth as plainly affirme that it is sinne and such as would condemne vnto death if it were not satisfied by Christ and remitted vnto the regenerate Your third example of his purpose to deceaue is that not hauing at hand the Censure of Collen it selfe he reporteth diuerse vntruthes against the Iesuites out of Gotuisus concealing his name quoting onely Censura Coloniensis which he is sure cannot be seene as not to be had in England andomitting Canisius whom his author Gotuisus doth likewise cite which may be had and red of euery man This is but a bare surmise without any sufficient reason to vphold it of two he citeth one Ergo he seeketh to deceaue And as for the Censure of Collen it is now as common to be had in England as Canisius his Catechisme although when Master Chark did set forth his first booke it was not to be sold in the shops yet many had it in their studies And it seemeth he did chuse to cite that which was like to be of greater authoritie among the Papists as done by consent of a wholl Vniuersity But it toucheth him more neerely that where Gotuisus did not beelie the Iesuites sufficiently Master
Chark without blushing will falsifie his wordes to make them more odious as where Gotuisus his wordes are that the Iesuites say the scripture is as it were a nose of wax Master Chark saith their wordes are the scripture is a nose of wax This quarrell was obiected at the first by the Censurer and answered by M. Charke in his reply that protesting at the first not to set downe the very words but the meaning he hath nothing varied therfro For there can be no other sense of these words the scripture is a nose of wax and these The scripture is as a nose of wax seing no man would dreame of a transsubstantiation but al reasonable men vnderstand a semblans or likenes although the note of similitude as be not expressed Therefore there appeareth no purpose of deceauing by this citing out of Gotuisus when Paiua Andradius also excusing the same crime against Kemnitius confesseth that the fathers of Collen in a most apte similitude called it a nose of wax Pighius the leaden rule of the Lesbian building as Master Charke sheweth whose purpose is no more but to prooue that this is an vnapt and an vnworthie similitude and therfore hath offered no wrong to the Iesuits or Censurers of Collen nor vsed any fraude to deceiue the reader Now concerning his other behauiour towards M. Campian in the tower of London els where you mean not greatly to stand vpon because you cannot imagine what colour you should set vpon your slaunder and yet somewhat you must say or els burst for spight First his inciuility in wordes vttered against Campian in his booke These blasphemous heretiks and arrant traitors where they haue no authoritie and most bloodie butchers of gods saints where they haue power require to be reuerenced euen of them whome by all possible meanes they persecute and abuse so that there may not an vngentle word be spoken against them though it be not halfe so much as they deserue to heare but they complaine forsooth of greate inciuilitie vsed toward them But what the Ceusure noted the reply hath answered and therefore to a generall charge I neede make none other but a generall answere But that was nothing to the contemptuous vsage of so learned a man in open audience Surely learning goeth very low among the English Papists when Campian is made so learned a man and euen with lothsomnes so often commended for learning in whome as we acknowledge there was more learning then honesty so they which either were priuy to his studies or had trial of his knowledge must needes confes that there wasin him much more arrogancie then learning But what contemptuous vsage I pray you can you lay to Master Charks charge Barbarous threatening of that further crueltie which then he had in minde and now hath put in execution vppon him Is any man so simple to belecue this slaunder hath M. Chark put any crueltie or punishment of iustice either vpon Campian in execution or had he any more to do in Cam pians punishment then you or was any greater cause thereof then you nay verily I maie thinke probably that you or at lest wise I may saie boldly that some of his greatest friendes the Papists were a much greater cause of Campians death then any minister in England For they knowing his proude stomach arrogant disposition which no man could be ignorant of that was acquainted with Campian chose him for a meete instrument to be sent into England as a trumpet of sedition with his traiterous faculties which is in deede the right and true cause meritorious of such paine as he suffered not Master Charks crueltie or malice which if he had borne any against Campian he is neither of authoritic nor credit to procure execution thereof in such sorte as Campian was punished Therefore this slaunder of Barbarous threatning and contemptuous vsage is as the rest of your honest reportes which neither haue trueth nor likely hoode of trueth in them But of all other things it seemeth to you most ridiculous and fit for a stage which yet Master Charke thought was excellent and became him well and that was his often turning to the people and requesting them to reioyce and thanke the Lord that had giuen him such an argument which when it came forth prooued not worth three eggs in Maie for that Master Campian dispatched it often times in lesse then halfe three wordes Ofthis turning and requesting they that were present do saie you lie in your throate that anie such was vsed by Master Charke as also where you saie that when he was brought to a non plus and thereuppon the people beginning to departe he caused the dores to be shut and no man to be let out vntill they had ioyned with him in praier to thanke the Lord for his victorie c. But if it had bene true that he had requested such thankesgiuing of the people or caused the dore to be shut that the wholl multitude of hearers might ioyne with him in prayer is praier thankesgiuing ridiculous meete for a stage doth the vse of them prooue a comicall exercise to get applause of the people if the one or the other be so in the accompt of papists surely they are otherwise iudged of among true christians But it was the weaknes of the arguments you wilsay which were so lightly dissolued in lesse then halfe three words which made that preparation ridiculous A maruelous dexteritie of the Champion orels a ridiculous maruell of his parasite to saie that he could dispatch arguments often times and shew the infirmitie of them in one worde onelie so that all men might laugh at the opponents follie Of like credit it is that Master Charke in the end was brought to a non plus and thereupon the people began to depart when as manie as were present can testifie that the daie being farr spent Master Liuetenant signified that the time was past whereupon Master Charke gaue ouer and concluded with praier In which if anie Papist by reason the dore was shut by order of them which might commaunde it were constrained like an hypocrite to vaile his bonet or bow his knees against his minde yet none was so hardie to protest that he would not ioyne in praier with him but ouelie your grande Captaine Campian which yet was so courtcous a gentleman that he offered to ioyne hands with them in familiaritie with whome he refused to ioyne his tongue in praier A lack that treason and vaine glorie would not suffer him to liue for otherwise manie thinke he would haue beene tractable enough in Religion But it was to get applause of the people that Master Norton the rackmaster was at Master Charkes elbow to repeate and vrge his arguments for him to the purpose What els except we might be bold with your worship and tell you that you gable Master Norton was there as a diligent and faithfull writer as well of
which is but a short section or Chap er doth not charge Luther with this opinion of heretikes not to be burned but the Donatists whose fansie is renewed againe in the Anabaptists and Libertines As for Luther Contra Latomum deincendiariis handleth not this controuersie at all but onelie expostulateth with the deuines of Louane which burned his bookes without examination or Conuiction of them out of the word of God Manie men haue complained and that moste iustlie of the crueltie of the Papists in burning as heretikes the true saints martyrs and members of the Church whose faith and religion they were neuer hable to conuince of heresie by the authoritie of gods word But that no blasphemer or obstinate heretike maintaining blasphemie against the expresse and manifest trueth of God is to be punished by death I am persuaded he can bring no booke or author of any accompt that so holdeth Fourthlie he addeth that Luther by onelie scripture found the sacramentaries to be heretikes D. Fulk by the same scripture findeth that both parties are good Catholikes But as Luther erred in his opinion of the sacrament so he was ouer rash in condemning those whome he calleth sacramentaries neuerthelesse seing he erred of ignorance and inconsiderate zeale he hath found mercie with God and is not to be adiudged as a blasphemous heretike For neither the error he maintained is blasphemie in it selfe neither did he hold it contrarie to his knowledge but as he was ignorantlie persuaded with zeale of trueth though deceiued with error How Doctor Fulke prooueth this not onelie by scripture but also by example of auncient fathers erring in like cases and yet not to be condemned for heretikes you maie reade in the place by this answerer quoted and in his confutation of Popish quarrels His last example is of manie things which Master Whitgift doth defend against Thomas Cartwright to be lawfull by scripture as Bishops Dcanes Archdeacons officialls holy daies and an hundreth more which in Geneua are holden to be flat conirarie to the scripture There are manie things lawfull by scripture which yet are not necessarie to be vsed The forme of external gouernment and discipline of the Church is not so expreslie set downe in holie scriptures but that euetie particulare Church hath libertie and must of necessitie appoint manie things for order decencie and gouernment which are not in expresse termes conteined in the scriptures euen as god shall giue them grace to see what is moste expedient according to the difference of times places and persons for the building vp of the Church in trueth and loue Wherefore although the Church of Geneua in the forme of outward regiment rites and discipline differing from the Church of England do not vse the same things that we do yet it followeth not that they holde them to be flat contrarie to the scripture neither is our answerer hable soundlie to prooue that he doth so boldlie asseuere To proceede he telleth vs what aduantage herctikes haue by onelie scripture they make them-selues therebie iudges of Doctors Councels histories presidentes cusiomes prescriptions yea of the bookes of scripture sense it selfe reseruing al interpretation to them-selues But this is nothing so for howsoeuerheretikes take vppon them to control al things according to their fantasie yet haue they noe aduantage by onelie scripture but therebie maie be are confounded when they come to examination tri all And as for the professors of the Gospell which acknowledge the scriprure to be sufficiente to teach all thinges needful to be knownevnto saluation although they are by god him selfe made Iudges of the spirits of al men by exacting them vnto the trial of the word of god which is the onelie certaine rule of truth yet doe they not by priuate authoritie iudge of Councells doctors fathers customs c. But by that charge which is laide vpon them to iudge cōdemne euen the Angels from heauen if they should bring anie other Gospell then that which the Apostles haue preached without al arrogancie or insolencie against the Angels Councels Doctors Fathers whatsoeuer but in giuing god the glorie to be onely true al men to be liers no Angel to be credited except they speake by the spirite of God of whose speach we haue no certaine demonstration but in the holie scriptures whatsoeuer is agreeable vnto them The discerning of the bookes of scripture of the true sense of them is also committed vnto the Church the faithful members thereof that doutful bookes be iudged by those that without doubt are indited by the holy ghost deliuered to the Church by faithfull witnesses instruments of the holy ghost to be of soueraigne and perpetual authority in the Church and so are knowne and taken of the true Church from time to time in such sorte that although the same truth maie be found in other bookes yet as Saint Augustine saith they are not of the same authoritie because there is not such certentie of trueth As for the sense and interpretation of the holie scriptures it must be taken out of the scriptures them-selues which are alwaies the best and surest interpretation of them-selues in all points necessarie to be knowne with the aide of the gift of tongues the gift of knowledge the gift of interpretation in them that haue labored in finding out the sense thereof according to the analogie of faith which is comprehended in the scriptures and that in places so plaine and euident as they neede no interpretation and therefore cannot be wrested by damnable heretikes without great impudencie and against their owne conscience for which cause Saint Paul willeth an heretike after the first second admonition to be auoided as one who though he will not acknowledge the truth yet he is condemned in his owne conscience and sinneth vnto eternall damnation Wherefore Councells Fathers Doctors customs examples are by vs admitted but not hand ouer head without distinction but such so farre forth as they be true and faithful interpreters of the scripture by matters and places plaine certenly knowne opening matters places obscure and vnknowne Which is the office of an expounder not to determine by his owne authority of anothers meaning whereof as among men euetie man is the best in terpreter of his owne so is the holy ghost of him-selfe in the scriptures by him inspired of whose meaning where they be hard to be vnderstood no man can be certaine but either by his own plaine wordes or by plaine necessary conclusion out of his plaine words Now touching the Papists whome our answerer saith to be restrained from chopping and changing affirming and denying at their pleasures because they binde them-selues to other things beside the scriptures to which they giue souereigne authoritie as to councells auncient fathers traditions of the Apostles and primatiue Church with the like the matter is farre otherwise For whatsoeuer they prate of the soueraigntie of
he quare venerit in carne Christus inueniemus qui eum negant in carne venisse Let vs inquire wherefore Christ came in the flesh and we shall finde who they are which denie him to haue come in the flesh For if you giue heede to their tongues you shall heare manie heretikes confessing that Christ came in the flesh but the trueth conuinceth them wherefore came Christ in the flesh was he not God was it not saide of him In the beginning was the worde and the worde was with God and the worde was God did he not feede the Angells and doth not he him-selfe feede the Angells did he not so come that he departed 〈◊〉 fromthence did he not so ascend that he did not forsake vs Then wherefore came he in the flesh Because the hope of resurrection ought to haue bene shewed vnto vs. He was God and he came in the flesh for God could not die the flesh could therefore he came in the flesh that he might die for vs. And how died he for vs No man hath greater loue then this to giue his life for his friendes therefore loue brought him to the flesh Whosoeuer therefore hath not loue denieth Christ to haue come in the flesh It is manifest now by this discourse of Augustine vppon some particuler causes of Christ comming in the flesh that his cheife and principall offices cannot be excluded in the right interpretation of this text and therefore Master Charke hath rightlie inferred that whoesoeuer denieth the offices of Christ or any parte of them is no lesse confounded by this scripture then they that denie his person or anie parte or essentiall propertie thereof and that by the consent of the auncient fathers exposition without the which also the text is euident of it selfe For the verie names of Iesus and Christ doe comprehende his offices which whoesoeuer denieth although in wordes he confesse his person and names doth make but an Idoll of Iesus Christe whoesoeuer therefore confesseth not Christ to be a Sauiour Prophet King and Priest is not of God but of Antichrist he whosoeuer confesseth not that he is a wholl and onelie Sauiour Prophet King and Priest is of the same spirite of Antichrist that denieth Iesus Christ being come in the flesh or as the vulgare translation hath that dissolueth Iesus For whoesoeuer setteth vp anie other Sauiour Prophet King or Priest in that sense that these offices pertaine vnto Iesus Christ dissolueth Iesus denieth Iesus Christ to haue come in the flesh whoe came to be our onelie Master-teacher according to the manifest texts of scripture which hath taught vs all thinges likewise our onelie spiritual King eternall and high priest whose office both kinglie and priestlie being confirmed to him by an othe passeth not from him vnto anie other in succession but remaineth alwaies the onelie mightie Prince King of Kinges and Lord of Lordes Whoesoeuer therefore derogateth from Christ anie parte of these dignities offices denieth Iesus Christ comming in the flesh and so doe the popish Catholikes or papistes by their doctrine of traditions Popes authoritie sacrifice of the Masse and such like Nay saith the answerer Martine Luther interpreteth this place to be vnderstoode of M. Charke and his fellowes saying That spirit is not of God but of Antichrist which dissolueth Christes flesh in the sacrament It cannot be denied but Martin Luther was in this case to rash and presumptuous in condemning other men for holding this contrarie to that wherein he erred him-selfe But this answerer is too impudent to faigne sayings wordes of his yea and to applie that which he saied further then Luther him selfe doth For first these wordes that are alleadged as Luthers saying are none of his but forged by the answerer Secondlie that which Luther saieth founding to such a matter can not be drawne against M. Charke and his fellowes who maintaine no such absurditie as Luther in that place oppugneth The very wordes of Luther in his booke intituled Defen verb Caenae Accipite c. are these Quare in superioribus dixi hunc spiritum non esse bonum neque per istos fanaticos homines quicquam boni machinari quanquam existimem hos concionatores contra quos haec scribuntur nondum mali quicquam in animo habere Sed bone Deus non sunt sui ipsorum compotes continentes à 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 captiui tenentur Quare eis nimium sidendum non ect Nam spiritus qui Christi carnem dissoluit non est à Deo inquit Ioannes idqque probam spirituum vult esse Hic spiritus verè dissoluit carnem Christi cùm cam inutilem pereuntem prorsus communem carnem affirmat qualis est bouis aut vituli Wherefore I saide before that this spirite is not good neither goeth about any good thing by these fantasticall men the rebellious boures although I suppose these preachers against whome these thinges are now written as yet to haue none euil thinge in their minde But good God they haue no power nor holde of them selues they are blinded and holden captiue by a spirite wherefore they must not be trusted too much For that spirite which dissolueth the flesh of Christ is not of God saith Saint Iohn and that he will haue to be the triall of spirites This spirite in deede dissolueth the flesh of Christ when it affirmeth that it is vnprofitable perishing and altogether common flesh such as is the flesh of an Oxe or a calfe This is Luthers saying now it is certein that M Charke and his fellowes doe neithet thinke nor speake so vnreuerentlie of the flesh of Christ animated with his spirite which they acknowledge to be verie true meate wherewith we are fed vnto eternall life They had some smacke of Nestorianisme therefore against whome Luther vttereth these wordes from which M. Charke and his fellowes God be thanked are free But now commeth our answerer after he hath forged a place of Luther and hammered it out against Master Charke to maruaile that these men can finde so many absurdities vpon one sentence of scripture and first he would aske whether Master Charke thinketh that the Papistes doe exclude Christ when they allowe Prophets to teach vnder him Kinges to raigne vnder him Priests to sanctifie vnder him or no. As though there were no waie for Papists to be guiltie of Antichristianisme except they did exclude Christ altogether whereas it hath bene prooued that whosoeuer doth not acknowledge the wholl and euerie part of his offices is of Antichrist As for Prophets Kinges and Priests to teach reigne and sanctifie vnder Christ is not the matter in question but to teach reigne sanctify beside Christ to claime like authotitie in teaching gouerning sanctifying with him as to be fellow Prophets fellow Kings fellow priestes with him to teach that Christ taught not to make articles of faith to dispense against Gods commaundements to make lawes to binde the
abstinencie from wine and strong drink his dailie excercise of praier and contemplation when he was alone his diligent and zealous preaching and baptifing when the multitudes came to him his free and earnest rebuking of all mens sinnes euen those that were greatest in credit the Pharises the Saduces the high Priests and the King him-selfe All these ioyned together are such arguments of austeritie and seueritie of life as not onelie all antiquitie but all ages past present and to come may worthelie wonder at as for the place the garment the dyet be not matters of so great admiration of themselues neither so wondred at of all antiquitie as he bableth not yet followed of his Mocke-monkes and false Eremites that either the wildernes is their dwelling or the Camels heare their weede or the locusts and bitter honie their diet or anie thing answering to these in hardnes Their Monkes dwell in palaces their Eremites in fine houses neere to cities and great townes their apparell though in fashion disguised yet neither rough nor hearie nor of smalest price their dyet like Princes and noble men the life of the greatest parte of them idle and lasciuious Therefore to their owne shame they may account Ihon Baptist the Prince or first author of their Monkish order whome they follow as neare in austeritie of life as they much come behind him in course of time I trust all reasonable men may now vnderstand what these vnlearned quarrels come vnto when they be discussed and examined howsoeuer they seeme to be bolstred out with impudent asseuerations multitud of quotations false cauillations and vnnecessarie collections In the rest therefore I wil be more briefe because my purpose is not to handle common places of controuersies at large but shortlie to discouer the vanitie and pride of this answerer and leaue such matters to other treatises where they be fullie answered A third example he taketh of our impertinent interpretation about the controuersie of the reall presence in the sacrament which is nothing els but a beggerlie crauing of a matter still in question which can beare no shew of of anie lawfull example except it were cleere against vs that our exposition were beside the text or contrarie to it But peraduenture this fellow will bring some new matter that hath not beene heard of in this cause to conuince vs of absurd interpretations First he saith they haue these wordes of scripture repeated in foure seuerall places This is my bodie If we did vtrerlie denic the sacrament to be the bodie of Christ in anie sense it were somewhat that he saith against vs But we graunt it to be the bodie of Christ in such sorte as Christ did meane by those wordes Contrariewise we shew the one part of the sacrament to be six times called bread after the consecration in the scripture the other part twise or thrise to be called the fruite of the vine yet your gare interpreters the Papists do vtterlie denie the one to be bread the other to be wine in anie sense but monstrous and imperceptible and that against the iudgement of all antiquitie and the plaine wordes of diuerse auncient doctours But all antiquitie to our answerer a great antiquarie as you shall sec by and by are so cleere for the Popish reall presence as no man might without great offence doubt thereof as the wordes of Saint Ambrose and Saint Cyrill are These bookes that he quoteth of lib. 4. de sacram C. 5. for Ambrose and Catech. 4. for Cyrill are not so without controuersie acknowledged to be so auncient as those fathers whose names they beare and yet they saie nothing in this cause of not doubting but we are readie to saie the same Namelia that Christ hauing said this is my bodie no man ought to doubt but that it is his bodie They haue also other wordes to declare that their meaning was not of the popish manner of presence but the spirituall manner of eating of Christs flesh where of the externall sacrament is a figure and similitude as Ambrose de sacr lib. 4. cap. 4. 5. de iis qui my ster init cap. 9. The same Cyrill also though much to be suspected for his antiquitie as verie latelie come into light yet saith in the same place that the bodie of Christ is to be receiued by fatih not as the Capernaites imagined which thought they had been prouoked to the cating of a mans flesh But that same Cyrill saith our answerer in another place prooueth at large that to aske onelie quomodo how it may be is the parte of an vnbelecuing Iewe quoteth lib. 4. in 10. cap. 13. In deed Cyrillus Alexandrinus affirmeth and we subscribe vnto him that to aske how God can doe that he said he wil doe commeth of Iewish incredulitie He saith not that it is a part of an vnbeleeuing Iewe to ask how Christs words are to be vnderstood figuratiuely or properlie carnallic or spirituallie Neither doth he speake in the place alledged of Christes reall presence in the sacrament but of the question of the Iewes how Christ could giue his flesh to be eaten which we beleeue verilie he doth not one lie in the sacrament but euen to infants which neuer receiued that sacrament or els we must exclude them from eternall life according to his words except ye eate the flesh of the sonne of man and drinke his blood you shall haue no life in you But now you shall plainlie see how skilfull this answerer is in all antiquitie whereof he talketh so often and so confidentlie as bayard is alwaies the boldest horsse The same Cyrill saith he speaking of him vnder whose name are caried those my stagogical catechesis is he that wrote vpon Iohns gospell c. whereas the one was Bishop of Ierusalem in Palestine the other of Alexandria in Egypt the one not much nearer in time to the other then the prouinces where they were Bishops are in place For Cyrill of Ierusalem was a verie olde man in the time of the second generall Constantinopolitane councell Cyrillus of Alexandria was president of the third generall councell of Ephesus the first betweene which two Councels there was aboue fortie yeares distance in tyme. By which note of grosse ignorance it is manifest that this scorneful proude answerer hath neuer seene the workes of the one Cyrill nor of the other but one lie the quotations and collections of other men which he vseth as vauntinglie as they were all of his owne reading yea if they be not pregnant inough for his purpose he will make no bones to falsefie their sayings cleane contrarie to their meaning as he dealeth with Epiphanius whome he affirmeth to saie That albeit the hoste seemeth to vs of arounde forme and insensible yet whosoeuer beleeueth it not to be the true bodie of Christ is fallen from grace and saluation whereas Epiphanius saieth expresselie it is of a round shape and insensible as concerning power and yet it is the
quartered for offering disputation onelie or at al. But this you must say to vs Ministers for our good that it were farre better we confessedour feare in plaine wordes then so much to manifest it in deedes and thereby io discredit the rest of our sayinges What feare I praie you and by what deedes doe we manifest it so much be like the Ministers of England racked and quartered Campian for feare lest he should ouercome them in disputation as the popish Priests torment and burne them whom they are not able to stand against in disputatiō we will confesse in plaine words that we are perilouslie afraid of you in deede where you may practise your malice against vs by massacres and martyring of our bodies with al kinde of cruel torments bloodie persecution euen vnto death that by fire but of your learning art of disputing or anie thing that you can bring in the waie of disputation either to maintaine your heresie or to oppugne the trueth of our religion we neuer shewed our selues fearefull or made daungerous to ioyne with the proudest of your part in publike disputation though it cost some of vs their liues for none other crime but because you could not vanquish them in disputation to make them yeald vnto your falsehood or to denie the trueth and therefore there is no reason we shoulde be afraied of your disputers when we liue vnder the protection of a moste gratious Prince who is readie to defend both our persones from iniurie and our Religion from contempt and contumelie you must therefore seeke out other manner of deedes wherein we so much manifest our feare of you then the racking or quartering of popish traitours which all men and your selfe doe know to be no actes or deedes of the ministers but of the Magistrates as also that the same punishment is not laied vpon them for anie cause of religion much lesse for offering disputation but for horrible and heinous treason or els al men wil account you to be but a wodden disputer to charge vs with feare shewed in deeds whereof you can shewe none that is oures or can argue the like feare in them whose deedes they are The rest of the matter contained in this defence of the first section of the Censure and of the next is so good stuffe that it needeth none other confutation then Master Charkes replie against which it defendeth the Censure Where the Censure said there can nothing be had from them but wordes Master Charke for himselfe referreth men to his answere and for Master Hamner he saieth that he hath brought more reason with his wordes then the Censurer will be able to answer But that is not the Censurers purpose in respect of the desired disputation and the disired disputation is a seditions challenge as hath beene plainlie prooued For otherwise what arguments so euer for your parte haue beene brought by the Censurer haue bene by Master Charke Master Hanmer fullie answered which is a sufficient acceptation of disputation offered if no surther matters were intended and a more profitable kinde of disputation then that you desire the printed bookes extending far and neere carying a certaine and vndoubted relation as well of the argumentes as of the answers whereas in your desired disputation it may well be thought that you hoped to triumph rather in multitude of boasting wordes to be vttered with impudent audacity by your brabling sophisters and in the false reportes spread by your lying sicophants then to obtaine anie victorie by sound arguments or sufficient answeres which thing wel appeared in the disputation that was graunted to Campian and other of your sect with Master Charke and the rest of the Godlie learned that had conference with them But now because of that which Master Charke hath saide of Master Hanmer bringing matter with his wordes you will binde him to defend euerie syllable in Master Hanmers booke are not ashamed to charge him that he will needes take vpon him the auochement of Master Hanmers doings with what reason euery man that hath but a crum of reason may iudge Therfore such matters as you require Master Charke to answere for he maie if he thinke good in his next writing satisfie your request although he haue by no promise bounde him-selfe thereto and Master Hanmer is sufficient to answere for him selfe and therfore by me they shal be passed ouer with silence being but quarrells and cauills what the Iesuites hold or holde not The like I saie to your collection of the effect of Master Hanmers booke which is performed so wiselie and pithelie that you seeme to haue found out a verie compendious and easie kinde of confutation of any booke that misliketh you Although the same briefe kinde of declaring the effect of Master Charkes booke doth not satisfie your minde and therefore you passe ouer his replie without examination promising to verifie all that you haue saide and he denieth in their particuler places because in deede M. Charkes replie doth so clearelie discusse the smooke of your vaine cauillations that you are ashamed to bring them againe into open light therefore referre them to seueral corners neuerthelesse I wish that all indifferent readers as in all places so in this wil vouchsafe to read M. Charkes replie betwene the censure the defence or at lestwise after the defence in which for the moste parte they shall see the defense ouerthrowne touching the substance thereof before euer it was written or deuised Touching the order and diuision of the booke that you will needes make we must be content to follow you although no wise man doubteth whatsoeuer you pretend to the contrarie but it had beene more easie both for your selfe and for the replier of whome you would seeme to haue a friendlie care and moste of all for the vnderstanding of the reader that you had followed Master Charke from point to point ashe followed Campians challenge if your bad cause could haue abidden the light of so cleare a method As for the long and bitter inuectiues of spitefull and contumelious speeches odious accusations light suspitions insufficient collections vaine surmises of treasons rebellious dissimulations practises c. which you pretend to haue bene the occasion of changeing the order in so short a treatise as Master Charkes is could be no reasonable cause thereof but rather if anie such had bene they had ministred great aduantage to you and your cause if you had orderlie confuted them How indifferentlie and without choler you offer your foure points to be examined both in your censure and in the defense of the same each man of what humor soeuer he be maie with a meane iudgement be able to consider The first parte touching the societie of Iesuites and the first section intituled by him Ofrailing YOu would conuince Master Charke of rayling by his owne confession because he acknowledgeth his labour imployed in certaine vehement speaches by you gathered together to bring the
Iesuites in discredit whose infections are well knowne abroade and are now entred to worke treason in the land Also because he graunteth the speaches which in all hatred of Popish practizes so directlie attempted against the maiestie of God and the peace of this noble kingdome he vttered in diuerse places of his answere But if you had not omitted the reasons which he setteth downe of his acknowledging and graunting of those vehement speaches they had beene sufficient in any reasonable mans opinion to discharge him out of that crime of rayling For you your selfe confesse afterward that euerie hotte word vttered in Catholike bookes by occasion of matter is not to be taken for rayling Now Master Charke standeth to the defence of his booke to be Christian and Catholike and him-felfe to be a true member and Minister of the Catholike Church of Christ and for occasion of matter he alledgeth the infections of the Iesuites well knowne abroad and their late entrie to worke treason in the land Also those Popish practises against which he vttered those speaches to be directlie attempted against the Maiestie of God and the peace of this noble kingdome so that such sharpe speaches and yet but sparinglie vttered in comparison of so many reproches as you haue belched out against him and our religion are not to be charged with the preiudice of rayling neither in regard of the person whoe did vse them or of the matter that did occasion them At the least wise vntill you had disprooued him to be a Catholike or discharged your Iesuites of the crimes of heresie and treason intended against them neither doth he with slaunder deuised against their persons as the manner of the Papists is seeke to discreditte their doctrine but in detestation of their false doctrine attribute such termes vnto the men as for their doctrines sake they deserue But you are gratious to graunt him pardon for that he confesseth hatred to haue beene the cause as though hatred not of the persons whome he wisheth to repent vnto saluation but of the practizes which he knoweth to be against God and the peace of the realme may not be a iust cause of more vehement inuectiues then he hath anie expressed And yet you see not how any learned or common honest man and much lesse a preacher can iustifie such vnciuill and outragious termes against his brother by any pretence of Christianlike or tollerable hatred I will not say how mány foule re proches be included in this one sentence taking it according to your meaning for I will graunt that you saie to be true if it may be vnderstoode of him that is a brother in deede But that Iesuites are brethren to Master Charke and such preachers as he is I thinke neither the Iesuites nor you your selfe if you be demaunded when you are awake will acknowledge Therefore being such as M. Charke had before described them by their infections treasons practizes against God and the realme he was not to imbrace them as bretheren but to detest them as heretikes and traytors The turning backe of the crime of railyng which he vseth vnto you was not for any excuse of the crime committed by him selfe for he doth not at all excuse but iustifie defend those speaches which you cal railing as fit words against the wicked Monkish fryers or fryerlie Monks affirming that if he were disposed to place your ordinary and extraordinary rayling in a ranke he might gather of your reproches more then can come into ten leaues but this you saie is neither to the purpose nor trewe not to the purpose because you were prouoked by his example and iniurie who began without example He might answere you that he began not with you but you with him neither did he prouoke you by any priuate iniurie but if you count the cause of the Iesuites to pertaine vnto you as a publike iniurie then iudge in differentlie whether the heresies and treasons of the Iesuites doe not minister iust cause to him of his hatred and bitter speaches against them But that he could gather ten leaues of your rayling you say it is a licentious lie For as Printers count leaues that is wholl sheetes there are but halfe ten in your booke and albeit they be counted as they are folded yet ten leaues are a greater part thereof then can be filled with rayling termes onelie So you saie and seeme to saie somewhat to your purpose but Master Charke hauing tolde you before vnto which your silence may stand for a confession that almost euerie line soundeth loud with some foull reproch who cannot see that it were easie to gather almost out of euerie line so many foull reproches as would fill more then ten of your folded leaues For of Printers large count no reasonable man would vnderstand him except you would allow him also to make as large letters and as fewe lines as Printers sometimes vse to doe in such large leaues of their account But this matter you may not so soone passe ouer for that you thinke it of importance to descrie she spirites of vs that are aduersaries in this case Rayling in deed is a fault in whomsoeuer it be found but it had beene requisite that you had first defined what is rayling that we might haue agreed vpon the matter in question You tell vs afterward what is not rayling namelie euerie hotte word vttered in Catholike bookes by occasion of matter is not railing nor the thing in question for both Christ his Apostles and many holy fathers aster them vsed the same sometimes vpon inst zeale especially against heretiks So that vntilyou haue prooued Protestants to be noe true Catholikes discharged papists from being heretikes euerie hotte worde in our bookes vttered against Papistes can not iustlie be accompted railing Naie if Catholikes by heate of zeale in a iust cause or in a case that they thinke to be iust be caried somtimes in vehemencie of speech beyond the bandes of modestie as they maie be iustlie reprooued therefore so they maie not straightwaie be condemned for heresie in so doing Iames and Iohn were so farre deceiued with zeale and in a cause that they thought to be cleare and iust that they would haue praied that fire might come downe from heauen by example of Helias and destroy the Samaritanes that resused to receiue their master Christ and were otherwise heretikes for which they weere reprooued but yet as they which knew not or had forgotten of what spirit they were yet not by and by reiected for heretikes The contention was sharpe betweene Paull and Barnabas and there was a fault betweene them yet both holie Apostles Saint Ierome is misliked of manie for immoderat vehemencie of speech against Rusfinus as good a Catholike as him-selfe yea he is not to be excused in heat against Saint Augustine Vigilantius and Iouinian he handleth more hardlie in termes then the cause of either of them did deserue although the one were in
furious deuil yea in the ende after they haue protested their hatred of the deuil al his waies they conclude Deus faxit ne Listhero iuxta domini verbum eueniat Ex abun dantia cordis os loquitur God graunt that it may not come to passe vnto Luther according to the Lords sayings Of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh Now whether these be shameles lyes that the Tygurynes do cal Luther an arch heretike a furious deuil let the readers iudge The second section intituled Of sects and sectaries FIrst you complaine that the answer is somewhat confuse and vnorderlie because Master Charke saith the examples of Elias Elizeus Daniell and Saint Iohn Baptist are no lesse wickedly then vnlearnedly alledged to auow the Iesuites order which hot entrance saie you is ioyned with a manifest cauil because these examples are not alledged to auow the Iesuites order absolutelie but in one point of differen life from the common sort which maketh them no sectaries But in deed Master Charke keepeth good order speaking first of the name of a sect then the definition of sectaries thirdlie to such reasons as are alledged to prooue the Iesuites to be no sectaries namelie these examples which without anie cauil as you surmise he denied to be sufficient to auow the order or companie of Iesuites to be no sectes so followeth the matter of confusion vntil the end of it And now we wil marke his reason as you bid vs. He demaundeth what you are able to bring out of the word of God why Elias should after more then two thousand yeares be brought in for a patron of friars you answer these examples are brought by the censurer to prooue that different apparell diet or straight order of life doe not make sectaries as Master Charke hath affirmed and now cannot defend and therefore hauing nothing els to say maketh these vaine and idle interrogations in steade of proofes Hear you not how confidentlie he speaketh what Master Chark hath affirmed how boldely he pronounceth that he is not able to defend that he hath affirmed and last of all how scornfullie he concludeth that he hath nothing but vaine idle interrogations in stead of proofes would ye not thinke that he which so latelie charged Master Charke with shamelesse lyes though he shewed none had a care that he himselfe should speake nothing but the trueth And which in the end of the former section was so busie with the conscience of Master Charke and Master Whitaker that he burdened them with open dissimulation and blinding of the people is it like that in the beginning of the next section he would make an open and moste impudent lie him selfe for beleue me reader if thou wilt or els read ouer Master Charkes answere to Campians seditious pamphlet thy selfe and thou shalt finde my wordes to be true that Master Charke doth no where affirme in all that booke that different apparell diet or straight order of life doe make sectaries I saie neither in this forme of wordes nor in any other to this effect or sense Then iudge according to thy conscience what a sincere Censurer this Papist is to Master Charke and what a doughtie defender he is of his owne Censure But now to returne to you sir defender whom I may not accuse of lying lest you charge me of rayling although I take you in a manifest vntruth was this the cause why ye found fault with M. Charkes method to iumble together thinges that were in good order that you might fumble out such an open slaunder be couered with the dust of disorder that you your selfe had raised you shew now of what spirit you are euen of his that was a lier and a false accuser from the beginning and the father of the same things But to that idle interrogation of Master Chark as you terme it what was there in Elias Elizeus or Daniel that maie liken them to Iesuites you answere there was to your purpose now in hand a different sort of life from the common sort which made them no sectaries as Master Charke would haue the Iesuits to be for that cause I haue said before for that cause onelie Master Charke would not haue them neither doth he therebie go about to prooue them to be sectaires although there is great difference in the singulare examples of those Prophets and in multitudes of men that seuer them-selues from the common sorte of true Christians and that for religions sake therefore those examples were idlelie brought in by the censurer to prooue that lesuites are no sectaries But to this you adde which is more then you neede as you saie and in deede more then is for your purpose to iustifie the Iesuites that dwell commonlie in the greatest cities That Saint Ierome proueth plainlie that Elias and Elizeus were the beginners captaines and patrones of Monkes and monasticall life whome he calleth for that cause Monkes of the olde testament ep 13 ad Paulinum ep 4. ad Rusticum For Saint Ierome in the former place prooueth not at all but onelie saith Noster Princeps Elias c. our prince is Elias ours is Elizeus our guides are the sonnes of the Prophets which dwelled in the fieldes and desert places and made them tabernacles neere the streames of Iordane The like he saith of the sonnes of Rechab which dranke no wine or strong drink and dwelled in tentes this he saith to approoue the dwelling of solitary men that were giuē to studie and contemplation in desert places by example of these holy men commended in the scripture which extendeth not to Popish Monkes or Iesuites which thrust in them selues especiallie into places of most frequencie of people In the epistle to Rusticus he speaketh neither of Elias nor Elizeus but exhorteth Rusticus likewise to leaue the citie and to get him into some solitarie place if he will be in deede that he professed him selfe to be called Monachus a solitarie man He bringeth in deede the example of Iohn Bap t ist and the sonnes of the Prophets Filij Prophetarum quos Monachos in veteri testamento legimus aedificabant sibi casulas propter fluenta Iordanis turbis vrbium derelictis polenta herbis agrestibus victitabant the sonnes of the Prophets whome wereade to haue beene Monkes or solitary men in the olde testament did build themselues litlecoteges neere to the streames of Iordan and hauing for saken the throng of cities liued with potage and wilde hearbs In the same epistle he saith mihi oppidum carcer and solitudo paradisus est quid desideramus vrbium frequentias qui de singularitate censemur vnto me the towne is prison and the solitarie place is a paradise what do we desire the frequencie of cities which haue our name of being solitarie These wordes of Saint Ierome do shew that in the principall point of profession there is great odds betwixt your Iesuites the solitarie men of the olde
haue no sinne and of the obstinate Iewes If I had not come and spoken vnto them they should haue had no sinne If I had not done those workes among them which no other could doe they should haue had no sinnes Luthers meaning is therefore that vnbeleefe is the greatest and onelie sinne that damneth a man because all other sinns are forgiuen to him that beleeueth is baptized according to the promise of god Secondlie where Luther speaketh expresselie of a Christian baptized you say simplie a man where he saith with any sianes how great soeuer you sate doe what mischeefe he can And as for your blasphemous collection that a man cannot leese his saluation if he would neuer so faine c. and that he may doe what he will so he fall not into incredulitie Luther him-selfe in three wordes sheweth how farre it is from his meaning in his answere to the gatherers of errours out of his doctrine which delt more honestlie with him then you For they said Baptizatum etiam volentem c. that the baptized man though he be willing cannot leese his saluation Luther answereth Quia fides tollis omnia peccara facit volentem non pecca re Rom. 1. because faith taketh awaie all sinnes and maketh a man willing not to sinne For euen in his booke de captiuitate Bab. he addeth this condition which you doe fraudulentlie omitte Siredeat vel 〈◊〉 fides if faith doe returne or stand For by the same faith or rather the trueth of Gods promise all other sinnes are swallowed vp because God cannot denie him selfe if thou shalt confesse him and cleaue faithfullie vnto him that promiseth To conclude faith and good workes be vnseperable and the faithfull man although by corruption of nature he is apt dailie to fall away from God into most greeuous sinnes yet by grace he is either preserued from heinous sinnes or els he is brought to repentance and sorrow for the same So that Luthers doctrine of faith and vnbeleefe if it be vnderstood rightlie as he doth often expiicate himselfe is full of comfort to a troubled conscience yet giueth not bridle to sinne or carnall libertie And therfore howsoeuer you wrest his wordes from his meaning you shew yourselfe no lesse an impudent liar then the false witnesses that deposed against our sauiour Christ that he said destroie this temple and within three dayes I will raise it againe which wordes in deede he spake but not in that sense they deposed and therfore are condemned by the holie ghost as liars and false witnes bearers Luther saith onely infidelitie is the trouble of the conscience because there is nothing but sinne and damnation where there is no faith you conclude that nothing is sinne but vnbeleefe whereas in vnbeleefe there is nothing but sinne and being iustified by faith we haue peace with god And there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Iesus who walke not after the flesh but after the spirit Againe where ' Luther saith that nothing maketh a wickedman but infidelitie because it is the roote of all wickednes and bringeth with it all wickednes you conclude that no other sinne maketh a man wicked which is true if it be vnderstood of him that hath faith is truly penitent for his sinne hath it pardoned by Gods mercie For to such one though his sinns were as redde as scarlet they are made as white as wol neither is he to be called Prauns a wicked man but rectus or iustus a right or a iust man who shall liue by his faith The second doctrine is so manifest a cauill that you doe in a manner acknowledge a satisfaction both by Master Hanmer and Master Charke onelie you would haue it considered how these wordes of Luther do sound in the eares of the people The enne commaundements appertaine nothing to vs. As though Luther did sette downe this Aphorisme so barelie that he did not plainlie declare his meaning For this he saith in his sermon intituled how the bookes of Moses are to be read with fruite Doctorem sanè c. truely we doe receiue and acknowledge Moses as a teacher of whome we learne much profitable doctrine as after shal be said but we do not acknowledge him to be a law giuer or a gouernour sithe he him-selfe restrained his ministerie to that people onelie Againe in answer to this question Why the tenne commaundements are to be obserued of vs Seeing Moses pertaineth not vnto vs he saith Sed inquis c. but thou saiest certainlie the commanndements of Moses that is of God are these not to haue straunge Gods to feare god to trust him and obeie him not to abuse his name to giue honour to parentes not to kill not to steals not to commit adulterie not to beare false witnesse c. is it not necessarie that we obserue these things I answere they are to be oserued of all men and they pertaine to all men not because they were commaunded by Moses but because these lawes that are rehearsed in the tenne commaundements are written in the nature of men For God hath imprinted these notices in all men euen in their creation Wherefore euen the gentiles to whome Moses was unknowen and to whome God hath not spoken as to them do know that God is to be obeyed God is to be called vpon parentes are to be honoured men must adstaine from murther and iniurie of others c. because these thinges displease God and are punished of him In the end he concludeth thus Dico igitur seruanda esse hee 〈◊〉 decalogi c. 1 saie therefore that these ion commaundementes are to be obserued not because Moses hath 〈◊〉 them which thing pertained to that people one lie but because all men haue these knowledges imprinted in nature with which Moses also agreeth If this be not sufficient to declare his iudgement to be farre from abolishing of the morall law I reporre me to you Now whether the ten commaundements appartaine more to Christians then to gentiles or Iewes we will not 〈◊〉 at this time Howsoeuer it be Luther saith not as you conclude that by this meanes they should no more appertaine to vs then to gentiles in whose nature also they were written But rather the contrarie maie be concluded by good Logick out of Luthers reason If they did appertaiue to the gentiles because they were writen in their nature much more to Christians in whose heart they are written also by the spirit of god What shall I saie more the Lord shall destroy all deceitfull lippes and the tongue that speaketh proudiie Thirdlie you reporte that Luther said It is a false opinion and to be abolished that there are 4. Gospels For the Gospell of Iohn is the onelie faire true and principall Gospel For this you cited his preface in nouum Testamentum which Master Charke cannot finde nor anie man els that I heare of in latine You saie it is not
your fault At the least it is your fault that in so straunge a report you haue not sette downe his wordes in latine if euer you sawe the preface your selfe As for the corrupt edition or often chaungeing of Luthers workes by him-selfe we haue not to do with it for whie might not Luther reforme his owne workes if ought in them were erronius or offensiue But it is a cauill that you adioyne of the confession of Auspurg whereunto the Germanes perhaps ascribe too much as Alasco writeth For though there be diuers editions thereof differing in wordes yet are they not contrarie in sense as appeareth by the harmonie of confessions latelie set forth at Gencua Now sir so much as we finde sounding toward your reporte I will sette downe that the reader maie iudge how vprightlie you do charge Luther with denying three of the foure Gospells Enarrat in epist. Petri argumentum Primùm omnium notandum c. First of all it is to be noted that all the Apostles do handle the same doctrine for which cause it is not well done that men do number but onelie foure Euangelistes and foure Gospells whereas whatsoeuer the Apostles haue left written is one Gospell For the Gospell signifieth nothing els but the preaching and publishing of the grace and mercie of God by our Lord Christ deserued and purchased to vs by his death and that thou maiest take it properlie it is not that which is conteined in bookes and is comprehended in letters but rather a vocall preaching and a liuing worde and voyce which soundeth into the wholl world and is so openly blowen out like a trumpet that it may be heard euerie where neither is it a booke which conteineth a law in which are many good doctrines as it hath beene commonlie taken heretofore for it doth not commaund vs to worke any thing where by we may become iust but it sheweth vnto vs the grace of God freelie and giuen without our meritte namelie that Christ hath beene our mediatour and hauing made satisfaction for our sinnes hath abolished them and made vs iust and saued by his workes Now whoesoeuer doth either preach or write these thinges he teacheth the true Gospell that which all the Apostles and peculiarlie Saint Paull and Saint Peter in their Epistles haue performed Therefore whatsoeuer is preached of Christ is one Gospell although one handle it after one manner an other man after another in diuerse manner of wordes do reason of it For the matter may be handled either in long or in short speach and be described either streightlie or largelie But seeing all perteineth to this end to teach Christ to be our sauiour and that we are made iust and saued by faith in him without our workes it is one word it is one Gospell as there is but one faith onelie and one baptisme in all the Church of Christ. Therefore thoureadest nothing writen by any of the Aposties which is not conteined in the monuments of the other Apostles But they which haue handled this point especiallie and with greater diligence that faith alone in Christ doth iustifie they are the best Euangelistes of all And in this respect you may more rightlie call the Epistles of Paul the Gospel then those which Matthew Marke and Luke haue written For these men describe not much beside the storie of the Acts and miracles of Christ. But the grace which is wrought vnto vs by Christ none doth sette forth more fullie or more rightlie then Saint Paul especiallie in the Epistle to the Romanes Now seeing there is much more moment in the word then in the factes and miracles of Christ and if we should want the one it were much better to lacke the Acts and history then the word and doctrine it followeth that shose bookes are to be had in highest price which handle the doctrine cheeflie and the wordes of our Lord Iesus Christ. Seeing that if there were no miracles of Christ extant and we were altogether ignorant of them the words were sufficient for vs without the which we could not so much as liue Therefore hereof it followeth that this Epistle of Saint Peter is to be accounted among the most excellent bookes of the new testament and is the true and pure Gospell as in which he doth nothing els but that which Paul and the other Euangelists do teaching sincere faith that Christ is giuen vnto vs which hauing taken away our offences doth saue vs c. This that he speaketh naming Matthew Marke and Luke say you signifieth some tooth against these three Gospells And what tooth I pray you because these three Gospells speake too much of good workes As though S. Paul in his Epistles and namelie in that to the Romanes doth not speake as much of good workes as all those three Gospells and Saint Peter though breeflie doe not speake as much in effect But in the preface in question you affirme that Luther hath these wordes The Epistles of Paul and Peter doe farre passe the Gospells of Matthew Marke and Luke which yet more prooueth Luthers euill opinion of those three Gospells I doubtnot albeit I neuer sawe the preface my selfe but Luther doth plainlie expresse in what respect the Epistles of Paul and Peter doe excell the histories of the Gospell written by Matthew Marke and Luke euen as he doth in this preface vnto his exposition of Saint Peter Because these Epistles are more occupied in setting forth the Grace of Christ and the fruit and benefit of his passion which no more prooueth his euill opinion of those three Gospells then when Christ preferreth Iohn the Baptist before al the Prophets it prooueth his euil opinion of all the Prophets or when he preferreth him that is least in the kingdome of heauen before Iohn Baptist it prooueth his euil opinion of Iohn Baptist. These brutish Papists thinke all men voide of common sense when they make such impudent conclusions As for your first charge that it is a false opinion and to be abolished that there are foure ghospels For the ghospell of S. Iohn is the onely faire true and principall ghospell when you can alledge the words of Luther in latine to iustifie your report and because we know not how to come to the sight of that preface will set downe two sentences that goe before them and as manie that followe them you shall receiue a reasonable answere But vntill you haue thus much performed I am perswaded you wil be as farre to seeke as Campian was for his reporre of Luther that he should call the Epistle of Saint Iames Stramineam strawie or like strawe And yet you take vppon you to shew the intollerable impudencie of Master Chark and his fellowes in the Tower against Master Campian for that he could not presentlie shew out of their bookes where these wordes are written by Luther especiallie of Master Whitaker whoe to the admiration and laughter of all other nations hath set forth in latine that Luther neuer
doth not he ouerthrow of all Christian commmon wealthes Luthers short answere to this is Hoc non de ciuilibus legibus sed de Ecclesiasticis dixi est sententi a Pauli Coll. 2. This I speake not of ciuill lawes but of Ecclesiasticall lawes and it is the sentence of Saint Paul Coll. 2. What foundation now doth he ouerthrow or teach of any Christian common wealth when he speaketh of the freedome of conscience from all constitutions of men These be the great monsters of impiety which cut the sinewes of al vertue do open the high way to all dissolution Wil you neuer be ashamed to slaunder their doctrine which you are not hable to confute But now for the bodelie and sensible conference of Luther with the deuill you wonder with what face Master Charke can denie it we wonder with what mouth you can affirme it That the Tygurines giue testimonie of it is a lie as I haue shewed before And the wholl discourse of Luthers wordes shall make manifest that his confession is onelie of a spirituall fight in minde no bodelie conference as Master Charke answered at the first His wordes in his booke de missa priuata vnctione sacerdotum are these Sed forsitan agnoscatis quà m firmis nitatur columnis vestra causa si in horam incidatis tentationum Eg o coram vobis reuerendis sanctis patribus confessionem faciam date mihi absolutionem bonam quae vobis opto quà m minimum noceat Contigit me semel sub mediam noctem subitò expergefieri Ibi Satan mecum caepit eiusmodi disputationem Audi inquit Luthere doctor per docte nostietiam te quindecim annis celebrasse missas priuatas quotidie Quià si tales missae horrenda essent idololatria c But peraduenture you may acknowledge vpon how sure pillers your cause leaneth if you fall into the howre of tentation I will make my confession before you reuerend holy fathers giue me good absolutition which I wish may hurt you least It happened that once I waked sodainlie about midnight There Satan began this disputation with me Hearken saith he thou verie wel learned Doctor Luther c. thou knowest also that thou hast saide the priuate Masse by the space of 15. yeares almost euerie daie what if such priuate Masses were horrible idolatrie c These words are manifest that Luther speaketh of a spirituall temptation such as euen good men are subiect vnto in which Sathan obiecteth vnto the conscience of men such things wherein they haue offended God moste greeuouslie The atguments that the deuill layeth against him are not so much against the Masse as against Luthers sinne to bring him in dispaire for saying masse being a sinfull man as appeereth by these wordes which he attributeth to the deuill Prome vbi scriptum est quód homo impius incredulus possit assistere altari Christi 〈◊〉 ac conficere infide Ecclesiae vbi iussit ac praecepit hoc deus Bring forth where it is written that an vngodly man an vnbeeleeuer may stand at the altar of Christ and consecrate and make the sacrament in the faith of the Church where hath God bidden or commaunded this For Luther had defended him-selfe and sought to quiet his conscience because he was an annointed priest because he celebrated in the faith of the Church although he was vnworthie in respect of the weakenes of his owne faith the multitude of his sinnes But this you clippe as your note booke serued you which was not of your owne gleaning Agè prome vbi scriptum est vbiiussit aut praecepit hoc Deus Goe to now shew me where the masse is written in scripture where hath God commaunded it and scoffe at the Protestants fashion of disputation and conclude that Luther not beeing able to answere finallie yelded to banish the masse vpon the deuills appointment which is a tale of a tubbe for there is no such conclusion but that Luther by faith in the merites of Christ ouercame this temptation For after his conflict described thus he proceedeth Hîc respondebunt mihi sanctissimi patres hîc ride bunt dicent tune es doctor ille celebris non nosti respondere Diabolo An ignoras Diabolis esse mendacem papè vestro merito vobis gratias ingentes ago pro tam suaui consolatione in re tanta Has tres voculas Diabolus est mendax ignorassem ego 〈◊〉 nisi monuissetis vos eximij theologotati Si papista essem omnium tentationum ruà is quem securum 〈◊〉 Satan negligeres vt ipsos negligit indulgentes suis cupiditatibus c. etiam talis gigas essem contra absentem hostem alacer fortis Sed si vobis sustinendi essentictus Diaboli audiendae disputationes non diu essetis cantilenam de Ecclesia veteri recepto more cantaturi equidem satis video in Dauid reliquis Prophetis qu à m grauiter luctentur ingemiscunt in his certaminibus similibus contra diabolum horribilem impetum eius Et Christus ipse quamuis sine peccato propter nos in quantis lachrimis in quibus angustiis agonizauit in his agonibus contra satanam Vrget enim in immensum corda nec 〈◊〉 niss repulsus verbo dei Et ego planè persuasus sum Emser um Oecolampadium similes his ictibus horribilib quassatio nib subitò extinctos esse Nec n. humanum cor horrer dum hunc ineffabilem impetum nisi deus illi adsit perferre potest Satan enim in 〈◊〉 oculi repente totam mentem terr oribus ac te nebris adobruit si nihil quà m hominem inermem verbo no instructum inuenit quasi digitulo totum 〈◊〉 Verum qui dem hoc est quód mendax sit sed eius mendacia non sunt simplicis artificis sed longè callidiora instructiora ad fallendum quà m humanus captus assequi possit Ipse sic adoritur vt apprehendat aliquam solidam veritatem quae negarinon possit atque eam adeo callidè versutè vrget acuit adeo speciose fucat suum mendacium vt fallat velcautissimos c. vtî cogitatio illa quae Iudae cor percussit vera Tradidi sanguinem iustum hoc Iudasnegare non poteratised hoc erat mendacium ergo est desperandum de gratia Dei Et tamen diabolus hoc mendacium hanc cogitationem tam violenter vrsit vt Iudas eam vincere non possit sed desperaret Proinde bone frater domine papista non mentitur Satan quando accusat aut vrget magnitudinem peccati ibi enim habet duos inconuincibiles graues testes legem dei nostram propriam conscientiam Non possum negare quòdreus summortis damnationis c. Sed ibi mentitur Satan quando vltrà vrget vt desperem de gratia Sicut Cain dicebat maius est peccatum meum c. Et ibi tum opus est in
tali agone diuino caelesti auxilio vt vel srater adsit qui te consoletur promissionibus gratiae foris velintus in corde spiritus sanctus verbum fratris erigat ac animet ac sustentet cor tuum vt possis sic apud 〈◊〉 statuere Confessus quidem sum Lege dei conuictus coram diabolo me peccasse me damnatum esse vt Iudam Sed verto me ad Christum cum Petro respicio eius immensum beneficium meritum c. ille omnem horrendam damnationem damnauit Here those most holie fathers will answere me here they will laugh and say art thou a famous doctour and knowest not how to answere the deuill Dost thou not know that the deuill is a lyer how say you by that I giue you great thankes as you are worthie for so sweete comforse in so weightie a matter These three wordes the deuill is a lyar I should not haue knowne vntil now except you most notable diuines had taught me If I were a Papist vnexpert of all temptations whome Satan would not neglect beeing carles and snorting as he neglecteth them that follow their lusts c. I should be such a Giant also stout and valiant against the enemie that is absent If you should beare the stripes of the deuill and heare his disputations you should not longsing the song of the Church after the accustomed manner I verilie doe see sufficientlie in Dauid and the rest of the Prophets how greeuouslie they wrestle and groone in those combates and such like against the deuill and his horrible violence And Christ him-selfe although without sinne in what aboundance of teares and anguish did he siriue for vs in those conflictes against Satan For he vrgeth mans heart exceedinglie ceaseth not except he be driuen backe with the word of God And I am plainlie perswaded that Emser and Oecolampadius and such like were sodendlie slaine wieh these horrible stripes and shakings For the harte of man cannot abide this horrible and vnspeakeable violence except God be with him For Satan in the twinckling of an eie sodendlie ouerwhelmeth the wholl minde with terrors and darkenes and if he finde nothing but a man vnarmed and not instructed in the word as it were with a litle finger he ouerwhelmeth him all at once It is true in deed that he is a lyar but his lies are not of a simple craftes man but much more craftie and prepared to deceiue then mans capacitis can comprehend He doth in such sort set vpon a man take holde of him and that sound truth which can not be denied and that he vrgeth and sharpeneth so craftelie and subtillie and couereth it so cunninglie that he may deceiue them that take the best heede of him c. As that cogitation which strake the heart of Iudas was true I haue betraied innocent blood this could not Iudas denie But this was a lie therefore I must despaire of the grace of God And yet the deuill vrged this lie this cogitation so violentlie that Iudas was not able to ouercome it but despaired Therefore good brother Sir Papist the deuill doth not lie when he accuseth or vrgeth the greatenes of sinne For thereby he hath two graue witnesses that are vnreproouable the law of God and our owne conscience I can not denie but I haue sinned I cannot denie my sinne to be greate I cannot denie that I am guiltie of death and damnation c. but there Satan lyeth when he vrgeth further that I should dispaire of grace As Cain said my sinne is greater c. And in this conflicte thou hast neede of the helpe of God from heauen that either some brother be present which may comforte thee outwardlie with the promises of God or that the holie ghost inwardlie in thy heart through thy brothers word do lift vp and encourage the and comfort thy heart that thou maist determine thus with thy selfe I haue in deede confessed before the deuill beeing conuicted by the law of God that I sinned that I am condemned as Iudas but I turne my selfe vnto Christ with Peter and looke backe to his infinite benefite and merit c. he hath condemned all horrible condemnation c. Now I reporte me to euerie indifferent reader whether Luther doe not speake here of a spirituall conflicte or tentation vnto desperation for his saying of priuate masse after he knew that it was idolatrie not of any bodelie conference about the abolishing of the masse Secondlie that Luther doth not yeald to the perswasions of the deuill wherewith the defender confesseth that both good and euill men are assaulted but according to the difference by him obserued resisteth the assault and obtaineth victorie thorough Christ. But now let vs heare what arguments our defender bringeth to prooue this bodelie conference First the confession of the Tigurine Caluenists but that is false The Tigurines did onelie reprooue Luther for his intemperat inuectiues and naming of deuilles so often our wise defender concludeth ergo Luther had deuilles Secondly he saith it is euident that this conference was more then spirituall by the deuilles preface wherein he calleth the frier right learned Doctor according to the vaine of pride wherewith he saw him puffed vp c. But what reasonable man seeth not that this presace of his title was but a bitter scorne of the deuill no flattering speach to make him readie to receiue his impressions as the defender saith As for the sound of Satans voice described in the place alledged in the Censure there is none such For the booke demissa angulari so often alledged by the papists is none other but this de missa priuata vnctione sacerdotum as appeareth by the verie wordes noted by the Papists in lib. de missa angulari which are found here in this boke de missa priuata c. Therefore the sound of Satans voice is but some papists dreame vpon the matter which our defender would now hide vnder the title of de missa angulari The third reason is for that Luther confesseth some of his fellowes to haue beene slaine by this conference What he saith in his rash iudgement of Emser and Oecolampadius where of the one was a Papist the other a Protestant you heaue hard in his own words which prooueth no bodely conference For those terrible blowes and shakinges where of he speaketh are no more bodelie then the busfeting of Satan where of Saint Paul speaketh And who doubteth but that by such spirituall buffeting of Satan a man that is ouercome with exceeding sorrow may suddenlie die except he be assisted and comforted by the grace of Christ as Saint Paul was Finally the bushell of sault saith our defender which Luther confesseth himselfe to haue eaten together with the deuill prooueth that he had bodelie conference with him First the booke is not extant and if any such were yet it prooueth no bodelie conference For no man is so madde to thinke that
〈◊〉 15. articles of heresies which Andreas Zebedeus Preacher of Nion Ioannes Angelus preacher of Burtin both Zuinglians did take vpon them to prooue against Caluine at Berna Caluine being present vpon paine of burning whereupon proceeded the decree of those magistrates in the yeare 1555. April 3. that none of their dominions should communicate with Caluine at Geneua Pontac in anno 1555. The trueth is thatby instigation of that hereticall varlet Bolsec diuerse Preachers neere vnto Geneua quarreled against Caluins doctrine of gods eternall predestination charging him to affirme that god is the author of euil with such like impudent slaun ders whereupon Caluine by license of the Senate of Geneua so purged him-selfe before the Bernates that one Sabastian and Bolsec were banished their dominion And Andrew Zebedey not manie yeares after albeit he were then the most earnest accuser of Caluin in his death bed at Nouidune foure miles from Geneua before the chiefe men of that towne reuoked his errors detested all those his actes against Caluine and commaunded all his papers to be burned in his fight So that whatsoeuer was offered to be prooued nothing was prooued in deede to shew such dissent betweene Caluine and Zuinglius as Master Fulke might not iustlie denie anie dissent betweeneCaluine and Zuinglius in the substance ofChristian religion which was truelie taught by them both notwithstanding any cauills that quarrel-pickers or fault-finders haue deuised against Caluine The sixt section intituled Of the Iesuites doctrine MAster Charke being charged to haue falsified the Iesuites wordes defendeth his reporte by testimony of Donatus Gotuisus out of whose treatise con cerning that matter he professed at the first to rehearse their wordes And that it is lawfull for him to charge them vpon an other mans reporte he bringeth example of the Censurer who reporteth intollerable slaunders of Luther vpon the credit of Lindan Cocleus Hosius This replie the defender thinketh not sufficient because he bringeth three witnesses and Master Charke but one As though three false witnesses were of more credit then one that speaketh the trueth after it is tried and knowne For what Luther affirmeth his owne writinges do declare so that if a thousand Papistes would sweare against him that he hath written otherwise then he did his writinges being open to al mens vew the world might condemne them al of falsehood And if Gotuisus haue reported vntruelie the blame is his and not Master Charkes who citeth his reporte But in the end it shall appeare that Gotuisus hath done the Iesuites no wrong but either in their owne words or in their meaning truelie deliuered the substance of their doctrine howsoeuer they maie cauill to cloake the matter as the defender here compareth Master Charke to a bird taken by the legge for lying and seeking euerie hole to escape The first is that he chargeth the Censurer with foure lies in one sentence this the defender calleth most ridiculous accusations and asketh if men do not pitie the poore minister that stoopeth to so miserable helpes for his reliefe so he laugheth at his lies when he can not iustifie them and turneth the woll matter to a scoffe when he hath not one word to answer for him-selfe he think eth not the matter worthty he defense because the lies are madein no waighty causes And yet a man may iustlie note how looselie he writeth that hath no more regard of trueth the nto rappe out four lies in so short a compas of time and place What wil he do in maters of greater importance I neede not aske for you may see how often he hath beene taken in most impudent and shameles assertions such as maketh me often to thinke that he is no professor of diuinitie which hath anie grounded knowledge him-selfe but some cosening Copesmate chosen out for his impudencie and verbositie to broch such stuffe for vnlearned readers as the note gatherers were ashamed to put forth vnder their owne names But to returne to our starting holes the second saith sit defender is that Master Charke and his fellowes draw all matters against the state as Pasie the madde man dealt with his Master to defend him-selfe when he was neere a shrewd turne for some prankes plaid with his companions and here by name doctor Fulk is charged with this practize and with parasiticall and palpable flatterie who answereth for him-selfe in the treatise often named pag. 44. c. But in trueth Mastet Charke needed not any coards to draw matters against the state out of your writinges for you offer frankelie more then it would be your ease to answer if you durst shew your face And truelie he said that you charge the Magistrates and Bishoppes as if they were careles what doctrine is deliuered to the people when you ask what he and his fellowes dare auouch in their sermons speeches and discourses which they are sure shall neuer come to examination The third hole is by laying all his lies vpon one Gotuisus where his falsehood appeereth in that he did not in all his whole discourse so much as once name or quote his auther Gotuisus either in text or margent MasterCharke answered before that the authors name is quoted in the most bookes so it is to be seene in the margent ouer against those wordes of the text out of a treatise concerning this matter I haue enterlaced their owne wordes as they are to be found in the same booke Where the quotation is Donati Gotuisi lib. de fide Iesu Iesuitarum This being to be read ofeuetie childe in manie hundred copies of what metrall is his face made of that doth so confidentlie denie it because as he saieth beleeue him ifyou list he could neuer happen vpon anie copies that had him quoted And if somehad it he asketh why al had not as though he were ignorant that a fault or an omission escaped in a fewe copies maie be reformed or added in the rest when it is espied The other surmises that follow whie Master Charke should not quote his author Gotuisus are vaine seeing he hath quoted him as also the other charges of treacherie and malitious meaning for so much as there is no proofe of them but his bare word are as easilie denied by vs as they are by him affirmed If in the particulars that follow he be hable to bring anie substantiall matter to confirme anie one of them it maie be considered as the cause shall require and occasion be offered The 7. section entituled Of the nature and difinition of sinne THe first article of the Iesuites doctrine you say is this It is not sinne whatsoeuer is against the worde of God Here you charge Master Charke with guilefull dealing and that you take vpon you to shew by an example of a lawyer that should saie it is not treason whatsoeuer is against the Prince and common wealth which soundeth odiouslie as though nothing committed against the Prince and common wealth were treason
the Lordes daie Here you cauill that there is no mention of Saturdaie or sondaie much lesse of celebration of either and least of all of the changeing of the Sabbath into an other daie But if it please your Censurship are you ignorant what day of the weeke is called dies Dominicus the Lordsday whether saturdaie or sondaie if it be sondaie as al professors of Christes name confesse here is as much mention thereof as is needfull for the daie into which the change is made Or if that be not sufficient you maie haue further Act. 20. 7. 1. Cor. 16. 2. And whie is the first of the Sabbath called the Lordes daie but in respect of the celebration there of in honour of the redemption of the world by Christ For otherwise all daies of the weeke are the Lordes daies in respect of their creation Thirdlie seeing the Lordes daie was one daie in the weeke vsed for the assemblie of the Church for their spirituall exercises of Religion it is certaine that the change of the Iewish Sabbath was made into that daie except you would be so waywatd to saie there were two daies in euerie weeke appointed by God to be celebrated whereas the lawe of God requireth but one and giueth libertie of bodelie exercise in sixe daies So that the change of the Sabbath daie is sufficientlie prooued out of the Scripture into the Lordes daie The sixt point is about foure Gospells and the Epistle to the Romanes which Master Charke saith to be prooued out of the scripture but yet he quoteth no place of scripture where onelie he saith the inscription expresseth the names of the writers But what a mocker is this you saie Are the bare names of the Apostles sufficient to prooue that they were written by them who can prooue by scripture that these names are not counterfet as in the Epistle to the Laodiceans in the Gospells of Bartholomew and Thomas c. But abide you sir your question hath two branches the one that the 4. Go spells are true Gospells the other that the epistle to the Romanes was written by Saint Paul and not that to the Laodiceans To the former it is answered that they are prooued by other vndoubted bookes of the scripture both of the olde testament and the new secing they declare that to be fullfilled of Christ which was spoken in the lawe in the Prophetes and in the Psalmes To the other it is answered that admitting the Epistle to the Romanes to be scripture the inscription of his name is sufficient to prooue that it was written by Saint Paull And so of therest Although the name of the writer is not materiall vnto saluation when the booke is receiued to be Canonicall as diuers bookes of scripture are receiued whose writer is vnknowne That Epistle which is called to the Laodicians is not receiued and therefore the inscription is vnsufficient as the Gospelles of Bartholomew and Thomas and such like which are knowne to be countefet by the dissent they haue from the other canonicall scriptures Whereas you require one place of Scripture to prooue all the foure Gospelles to be canonicall you declare your wrangling and wayward spirit But name you anie one point of Doctrine writen in anie of those foure Gospells and the same shall be aduouched by other textes of scripture and so maie eucrie point conteined in them if neede were But you affirme that Origen saith he reiecteth the Gospell of Saint Thomas onelie for that the tradition of the Church receiued it not Which is false He saith he hath read the Gospell after Thomas after Mathias and manie other Sed in his omnibus nihil aliud probamus niss quod Ecclesia idest quatuor tantùm euangelia recipienda But in all these we allowe nothing els but that which the Church alloweth that is that onelie foure Gospells are to be receiued In these wordes he affirmeth that he approoueth the iudgment of the Church he saith not that the iudgement or traditions of the Church was the onelie cause whie he reiected those Gospells for he said before they were receiued of heretikes and wherefore but in maintenance of their heresie which is contrarie to the holie scriptures That all counterfet Go spells were reiected by the Church it is confessed but the Church had this iudgement of discretion confirmed by the canonical scriptures against which Epiphanius saith nothing But when Faustus the Manichie denied the Gospell of Saint Mathew saie you saith not S. Augustine Mathaei Euangelium probatum aduersus Faustum Manichaeum per traditionem The Gospell of Mathew was alleged against Faustus the Manichie by tradition August lib. 28. Cont. Faust. c. 2. If you aske me I saie no he hath no such wordes Yet doth he auouch the Gospell of Saint Mathew in that Chapter by testimonie of the Church from the Apostles by continuall succession euen vnto his time against the Maniches but in far other words then you haue set downe in steed of Saint Augustines wordes by which the reader maie once against perceiue how impudentlie and ignorantlie you ailedge whatsoeuer the note booke which was neuer of your own gatheriug because you vnderstood it not did minister vnto you For these are the wordes of the collector of your notes not of S. Augustine Maie not the papists haue great ioie of such a Cenfure defender Yet you triumph like a Iustie champion and aske what can be more euident then all this to prooue our opinion of the necessitie of tradition to confound the fonde madnes of this poore Minister Alas poore defender what waightie euidencethou hast brought to prooue the necessity of tradition which prooueth thee to be a blind beggerlie yet a bolde brocher of other mens notes which thou vnderstandest not thy selfe The seuenth doctrine which is required to be prooued out of the scripture is that God the father begat his sonne onelie by vnderstanding him-selfe Here Master Charke in steede of these darke wordes out of Thomas how the father begat the sonne wisheth cleare and perfect wordes in so high a mysterie which you saie are plaine and vsuall to those which haue studied any thing in diuinitie As though there were no diuinitie in the holie scriptures and so many of the auncient fathers which haue neither this question nor these wordes but that al diuinity were included in the brest of Thomas Aquinas and such doctors as he was That he quoteth a place or two of the scripture to prooue that Christ was the onelie begotten sonne of God you make smal account of seeing the question is of the māner how this generation maybe which the Church de fendeth against the aduersaries And here you insult against M. chark as ignorant in those high points of diuinitie whereas Catholiks know what the Church hath determined herein against heretikes and infidels as though either of both cared for the Churches determination if the one were not vanquished by scripture the other by right reason
necessarie to saluation not expressed in so manie wordes and syllables yet in full sense contained and to be plainlie concluded out of the holie scriptures and these we receiue to be of as great credit as anie thing that is expresselie contained in the scriptures The other kinde of traditions was rites and cerimonies which are not necessary to saluation but are in the Churches power to alter as it maie stand best with edification Among which S. Basill rehearseth some that long since are abolished as the rite of standing in praier one the Lords daie and betweene Easter and Whitsontid which of it selfe is a thing indifferent as also that manner of glorifying in which they said with the holy ghost whereas al the Church long since hath said neither in the holie Ghost nor with the holie Ghost but to the holie Ghost To beleeue that the holie Ghost is to be glorified equallie with the Father and the sonne it is necessarie to saluation but in what forme of wordes that shal be song in the Church it is indifferent and the later Church hath vsed her libertie herein to alter that forme which Saint Basill saith was deliuered by the Apostles themselues without writing By this I hope it is manifest what kinde of traditions are of equall force or authoritie with the scripture euen they which haue their ground in the scriptures and none other For as the same Basill affirmeth Euerie word or deede ought to be confirmed by testimonie of the holie Scriptures Againe For if all that is not of faith is sinne as the Apostle saith and faith is of hearing and hearing by the word of God whatsoeuer is beside the holie Scripture being not of faith is sinne Thus Basill whatsoeuer he speaketh of vnwritten traditions he meaneth not against the insufficiencie of the holie scriptures except you will saie he is contrarie to him-selfe in manie places beside these that I haue noted Tr. de vera piafide Epist. 80. in Reg. Breu. Inter. 1. 65. 68. de ornatu Monachi Your next testimonie is out of Eusebius lib. 1. Eu. Demonst. cap. 8. whole wordes you mangle after your manner leauing out at your pleasure more then you rehearse Eusebius hauing shewed the excellencie of Christ aboue Moses declareth also that there are two manners ofliuing in Christianitie the one of them that are strong and perfect the other of them that are subiect to manie infirmites and that whereas Moses did write in tables without life Christ hath written the perfect preceptes of the new Testament in liuing mindes his disciples following their Masters minde considering what Doctrine is meete for both sortes haue committed the one to writing as that which is necessarie to be kept of all the other they deliuered without writing to those that were able to receiue it wich haue excelled the common manner of men in knowledge in strength in abstinence c. And this is the meaning of Eusebius in that place not of anie traditions necessarie to saluation of euerie man which are not taught in the holy scriptures but of certaine precepts tending to perfection not enioyned to all but written in the heartes of some The third man is Epiphanius who you saie is more earnest then Eusebius writing against certaine heretikes called Apostolici which denied traditions as our Protestantes do Which is but a tale for they were more like to Popish monkes and friers then Protestantes For they professed to abstaine from marryage to poslesse nothing and such other superstitions they obserued But what saith Epiphanius for traditions He saith that we must vse tradition For all thinges can not be taken out of the scripture wherefore the holie Apostles deliuered somethings in the scriptures and something in tradition Mine answer to Epiphanius is the same that it was to Basilius Namelie that such things as were not expressed in plaine wordes in the scripture were approoued by tradition being neuertheles such thinges as were to be concluded necessarilie out of the scripture As in the question for which he alledgeth tradition it is manifest Tradiderunt c. the holie Apostles of God saith he haue deliuered vnto vs that it is sinne after virginitie decreed to be turned vnto marriage This the Papistes doubt not but that they are hable to prooue out of the scripture except where the Pope dispenseth And we acknowledge that where the vow was made a duisedly to a Godlie purpose and abilitie in the partie to performe it that it is sinne to breake it neither can the Pope dispense with it In the other place where he rehearseth manie examples of traditions he speaketh of rites and ceremonies as is before declared wherof manie are not obserued in the Popish Church neither is there anie of them necessarie to saluation But Epiphanius you saie prooueth it out of scripture 1. Cor. 11. 14. 15. vhere Saint Paulsaith as I deliuered vnto you And againe so I teach and so I haue deliuered vnto the Churches and If you holde fast except you haue beleeued in vaine To the first I answer that it prooueth no traditions necessarie to saluation which are not contained in the scriptures as is more manifest by the second and third text for where Saint Paul saith so I teach in all the Churches of God 1. Cor. 14. 33. he saith immediatelie before that God is not the God of sedition but of peace 1. Cor. 15. 1. 2. 3. the Apostle speaketh manifestlie of the doctrine of the resurrection wherof he him-selfe in that place writeth plentifullie and in manie other places of scripture the same article is taught moste expresselie You see therefore how substantiallie Epiphanius prooueth tradition vnwritten out of the scripture to be necessarie to saluation which is our question But with Epiphanius saie you ioyneth fullie and earnestlie Saint Chrysostome writing vpon these wordes of Saint Paul to the purpose Stand fast and holde traditions out of which cleere wordes Saint Chrysostome maketh this illation Hinc patet c. Hereof it is euident that the Apostles deliuered not all by epistle but manie thinges also without writing and those are as worthie credit as these Therefore we think the tradition of the Church to be worthie of credit it is a tradition seeke no more The sense of these wordes is that the Apostles in their preaching did expresse manie things more perticularly then in their epistles not that they preached anie thing necessarie to saluation but that the same was contained either in their epistles or in other bookes of the holie scripture And so I saie of the tradition of the Church which is a doctrine contained in the scriptures though not expressed in the same or in so manie wordes as the three persons and one God in trinitie and trinitie in vnitie to be worshipped c. is of equall credit with that which is expressed in the scriptures because the ground of our faith standeth not vppon the sound of wordes but vppon
a nose of wax is easie to be turned and shaped on euerie side or sort which if it were so must needes be a great fault in the scripture it selfe A hundred positiue lawes and statutes in England are so well penned as all the sophistical heads in christendome cannot finde a starting hole in them by anie peruerse interpretations but thatall they which haue but a meane skill in the lawes will laugh them to scorne And tha I we think so vnreuerently of the holy scriptures giuen by inspiration of god that euerie foolish heretike maie turne them about like a nose of wax but rather that in his said attempt of turning his folly shal be made manifest to al men Pighius saith expressely the scriptures are dumbe iudges as though Godspake not in them and by them vnto vs whose prophane comparison of the holie scriptures with prophane lawes which require Magistrates and iudges to punish the offenders of them euerie Christian man may perceiue to tende to the derogation of the maiesty of them As also euerie childe that hath studied logike but halfe a yeare maie vnderstand his beggerlie petition of the principle when appealing from the iudgement of the scriptures he will be iudged by none but by papists in controuersies and questions that we haue against the papists As for the blacke Gospell and Inkie diuinitie babled by Eccius against the written Gospell If Iesuits can maintaine as Catholike surelie Christians can not heare it without horror of blasphemie If there be no fault or imperfection in the scriptures how saith Pighius that euery man may euidently know without the scriptures in what order the Church is appointed by her author Againe of what moment is the holy scripture if it be not necessarie to decide all doubtes and controuersies in the Church for thus saith Pighius If we receaue the authoritie of the Churches tradition quam si recipimus omnis facilè etiam sine scriptur is inter nos componetur concertatio controuersia cùm de singulis nonfuerit admodum operosum inuenire quid Catholica ab initio Ecclesia senserit Which if we receiue all strife and controuersie betweene vs may easilie be compounded euen without the scriptures Seeing it is no very hard worke to finde out what the Ca tholike Church from the beginning hath thought of euerie question Thus the Ecclesiasticall tradition is set a loft and the holie scriptures excluded as superfluous and vnnecessarie seeing all questions may easilie be decided without them But to giue a better colour to your nose of waxe you saie Saint Ierome doth call the scriptures alledged corruptlie by Marcion and Basilides the diuells Gospell because the Gospell consisteth not in the words of scripture but in the sense But so doth not Christ call the scripture when it was alledged by the deuill neither doth Saint Ierome so call the scripture but the false sense feined by heretikes His wordes are these Grande periculum est in Ecclesia loqui ne fortè interpretatione peruersa de Euangelio Christi hominis fiat Euangelium aut quod peius est Diaboli It is great perill to speake in the Church least perhappes by peruerse interpretation of the Gospell of Christ be made the Gospell of man or that which is worse of the deuill And it is true which he saith The Gospell is not in the wordes but in the sense of the scriptures Yet it is also true that the sense of the scriptures is expressed in those wordes of the scriptures and not included in the Popes breast as the Papists would haue vs thinke that al labour bestowed in seeking the sense of the scriptures is in vaine except we take the interpretation of the Popish Church which sthe iudgement of the Pope as the sure rule to guide vs by But Saint Augustine you saie calleth the scripture the bowe of heretikes Which is not so for he compareth their wresting of the scriptures to the bending of a bowe Ecce inquiunt peccatores tetenderunt arcum credo scriptur as quas illi carnaliter interpretando venenatas inde sententias emittunt Beholde say they the sinners haue bent the bowe the scriptures I beleeue which while they interpret carnallie they send forth poysoned meaninges from them Further you saie Irenaeus compareth it abused by heretikes to a Iewel stamped with the forme of a Dogge or Fox Irenaeus speaketh not of the bodie of the scriptures but of wordes sentences and parables of scripture rent not onelie from their sense but also from their place and patched together with olde wiues fables to make a shew for heresie which is all one as he saith as if a man should breake an excellent Image of a king and when he hath fashioned the peeces beeing pearles or precious stones into the shape of a Fox or Dogge he would yet be so impudent to saie this is that excellent Image of the king which was made by a not able workman This soundeth nothing like the nose of waxe Likewise you saie Gregorie Nazianzen compareth the scripture to a siluer scabberd with a leaden sworde in it The comparison you speake of is in his poemes which I verelie am perswaded that you neuer read but were mocked by your notebooke as many times before For Gregorie compareth not the scriptures as you slaunder him but an hipocrite a man that hath nothing but an externall shew of religion to a leaden sworde in a siluer scabberde his verses are these if you could haue construed them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 To these that you might seeme bountifull though you be a verie begger of your owne reading you adde Tertullian and Vincentius Lirinensis of which the former you saie compareth the scripture to the deceitfull ornaments of harlottes the other to poysoned hearbs couered in the Apothecaries shops with faire titles Wherein you slaun der them both for they compare not the wholl scripture as you doe in your nose of waxe but the hereticall bragges of scripture which as they may abuse a peece for a shew so are they confounded by the wholl when the same is rightlie weighed Therefore the comparisons of these auncient Doctors are no more like to your nose of waxe then your nose of waxe is like to the holie scriptures Neither doth the example of Luther calling the scriptures the booke of heretikes expounding him selfe why he so calleth it namely because it is depraued by heretikes defend the Iesuites which to the deprauation of the scriptures vse that similitude as Luther did not in his albeit he might as well haue forborne that title as his rash iudgement against those whome you call sacramentaries for as the one was vnprofitable so the other was vniust But if the Iesuites saie you had reiected any one booke of the scripture as the Protestantes doe many we might iustlie accuse them It is as great a fault to adde to the worde of God as to take from it The Protestantes reiect no booke
in stead of which word properlie you craftelie conueigh in the worde truelie so your wholl syllogisme is a paralogisme and may lawfully be denied Notwithstanding your conclusion as it is we do graunt that the Apostles do rightlie and truely remit sinnes by their ministery in the holie ghost but as it should be inferred vpon your premises we denie it which cannot be gathered but vpon a false Maior Whatsoeuer the holie ghost may doe properlie in remitting sinnes the Apostles may do by ministerie as properlie As for the comfort of mans life taken away by denying sinnes to be properlie forgiuen by Priestes is a fond cauill and meere slaunder For we acknowledge it a singular comfort of mans life that God hath appointed men by their ministerie to assure vs of his fauour and reconciliation in the remission of oursins And we beleeue with Saint Augustine that sinnes are forgiuen in Gods Church vpon earth acknowledgeing the bountefullnes of God in so mightie a worke anathematizing and detesting the Nouatians and all other heretikes that obstinatelie and willfullie mainteine the contrarie The power to remit sinnes is further prooued to be giuen to the Apostles by these wordes of Christ Whose sinnes you do forgiue c. by the Doctors exposition of the same and by conference of other wordes of scripture of the like sense THE FOVRTH CHAP. ALLEN HOw the priestes of Christes Church haue defended this right and calling for remission of sinnes as wel by the commission that Christ first receiued of his father and afterward bestowed vpon them as by the assured receiuing of the spi rit of god from Christes blessed breath to the same and purpose I haue hitherto declared at large Now the third part of the place before alledged out of S. Iohns gospel concerneth the words of Christes promis and warrant made vnto his Apostles out of which wordes distinctly vttered we must see what force may be further added vnto our Catholike assertion for the pristes autho rity to remit and retaine sinnes And surely if none of the former wordes of commission nor any other mean or mention had beene made of the holy ghostes assistaunce herein these onlie woordes vpon the credit that faithful men owe to Christ had bin sufficient to haue assured the world of the authoritie of priesthood of the wholl cause that now is called in controuersie For what can be said either of god or man more properlie or more playnlie then this whose sinnes you shal forgiue they be forgiuen whose sinnes you shal retaine they be retained I must needes heree complaine of these vnfaithful and vnhappie times that in the continuall lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the booke of the Bible in endlesse contention and disputation of most high mysteries in them contained haue wholie conuerted the cleerest and onely vndoubted meaning of such places specially as moste touch the verie life and saluation of all mankinde and which be of all other thinges in termes of scripture most open and euident sull foolishlie and vnlearnedlie haue both the simple sort handled Gods word as in such grosse ignorance of al thinges they needes must and their new procured Masters also in not much more knowledge and farre passing pride can not otherwise do but whilest they plaie them selues in things of smaler importance they are to be laughed at rather then lamented but if the deuil driue them farther as he lightlie doth wherere he se quietlie possesseth and cause them to dallie and delude the places of scripture that principally concerne the state and saluation of vs al then we must with al force resist lest we leese the fruite and good of our Christianitie What can be of higher importance in the world or touch our soules and saluation so neere as the holie sacraments of Christ Church by which grace and mercy through gods appointment be procured yet these blessed fountains especiallie euen these waters springing euerlastingly to our life and comfort haue these men most infected FVLKE You fare as though we denied all power of remitting or retaining of sinnes whereas we do moste gladlie imbrace all such power as Christ hath giuen vs which we must so take as it be not dishonourable to the godhead that man should exercise that which is proper to God him-selfe The power therefore we graunt but what manner of power this is we must inquire whether an absolute power for priests at their pleasure as you speake afterward in this Chapter to forgiue sinnes properlie or a power to declare the same to be forgiuen according to the pleasure of God to them that repent and beleeue the Gospell and also whether this power is to be exercised by preaching the Ghospel or by auricular confession You spend manie words therefore in vaine to prooue the power and authoritie whereof we stand in no controuersie with you but what manner of power this is and by what meanes it is to be exercised As for the lothsome bragges of the scripture and Gods word in perpetuall tossing and tumbling of the bookes of the Bible doe argue that you complaine of sauoreth not of the spirit of Christ which willeth the scriptures to be searched as those which beare witnes of him To glory in the truth of Gods word contained in his holie scriptures is no vaine bragging but such as Christians ought moste of all to delight in The rest of your railing I passe ouer as vnworthie anie answere when whatsoeuer you prate in generall shal be founde false in speciall when you come to prooue the particulers ALLEN In the institution of Sacraments Christs wordes were euer plaine without colour or figure as wordes that worke with singular efficacie grace and vertue and therewith giue to the ministers iust authoritie for the execution of Christes meaning which could not be done in figuratiue speaches and parables without infinit error Did God speake parables when he instituted the solemnitie of so manie sacrifices in the olde lawe when he signified vnto Moses and Aaron euerie seuerall sorte of beast or creature with their sexe kind all the ceremonie thereunto belonging Did he speake parables when the sacrament of the lambe was to be instituted Did he speake by figure to Abraham when he commaunded him to circumcise the male of euerie of his people Did he speake by figure when he instituted the Sabbath Did he to be breefe euer in the olde lawe speake one thing and meane another when anie externall worke by the charge of his worde was to be practized for euer amongest the people In common speach in prophecying in preaching in similitudes in examples vttered for the declaration of manie thinges and for grace and varietie of talke to stirre vp mans industrie in searching the secretes of the trueth there figures of all sortes be vsed but where by externall wordes and actions force of inward grace must be procured or perpetuall vsages in the Church are
to any other creature vnder God but also maketh the priestes to be as well the iudges as surgeons of our soules as to whome the searching the cutting the burning the hard griping the opening or the closing of our woundes and sores of conscience doth apperteine In all which cases he saith Quî igitur phramacum ei morbo adhibere quis possit cuius genus nequaquam intelligat How should a man salue that sore the nature and kinde whereof he knoweth not and to know it without confession of the partie is not possible For the things within a man none knoweth but the spirit which is in man And truelie said the Countie Bonifacius to Saint Augustine Ipse sibi denegat curam qui suam medico non publicat causam He hindereth his owne health that will not vtter his disease and the cause thereof to his Phisitian And further if you will be assured of the said Chrysostomes minde touching confession read his exposition vpon the wordes of the institution of this sacrament and of Christes breathing the holie Ghost vpon his Disciples for their power to remit sinnes Where he declareth that these holie things committed to the priests charge doe properlie apperteine to God by whose speciall grace we obteine remission euen then when the priest doth absolue vs where he also expresseth the verie manner of the Church in giuing absolution till this daie saying that the priest doth but as you would saie lende his voice and his hande Signifiyng that the manner was then as it is yet to speake the wordes of absolution and laie the hande vpon the penitents heade in the sacrament of penance So in sense saith Saint Chrysostome FVLKE Whosoeuer list to read that booke shall finde nothing in the worlde to prooue his iudgement for the necessitie of auricular confession but rather who so list to see Chrysostomes iudgement of the necessitie of shrift let him consider what we haue cited out of his writings in the last section For in this place by you cited he speaketh not of confession but of the difficulty of a Priests office as I haue shewed before to exact more knowledge and diligence of them because it is harder to be a shepheard of men then of beastes For the diseases of beastes maie moste commonlie be seene and they compelled to take the remedie the diseases of men are harde and sometimes impossible to be knowne and no waie either to compell men to discouer them or to receiue medicine for them Whereas if confession were a necessarie institu tion of God he might haue aptlie brought it forth in this place to shew what waie the spirituall shephearde hath to vnderstand the diseases of his sheepe His wordes are these after he hath spoken of the bodelie shephearde and his sheepe But the diseases of man first it is not easie for a man to see For no man knoweth those things that perteine to man but the spirit of man which is within him How wherefore should a man vse a medicine for that disease the manner whereof he knoweth not yea manie times he cannot know whether a man be sicke But when that is made manifest he hath more dissicultie about him For he can not heale all men with so great power as the shephearde doth his sheepe For there he may binde him restraine him of meate burne him cut him But here the power to receiue health lieth not in him that offereth the medicine but in the sicke person For this that wonderfull man saw when he saide to the Corinthians not that we are Lordes of your faith but we are helpers of your ioye And moste of all it is not required in Christians by force to reforme the transgressions of them that sinne But the forreine iudges when they take malefactors vnder the lawes doe shew great power ouer them and restreine them against their will to vse the same manners But here not by compulsion but by perswasion we must make such a one better for there is no such power giuen vs by the laws to restreine sinnes neither if the lawes gaue such power haue we where to vse it seeing God crowneth not them which of necessitie abstaine from wickednes but them that voluntaryly refraine from it Therfore there is neede of great cunning that they which are sicke may be perswaded willingly to submit themselues vnto the healing of the Priestes Thus much Chrysostome nothing fauouring the necessitie of auricular confession but rather denying any means wherby the inward disease of a man may be knowne except it be by voluntarie not extorted cōfession The countie Boniface speaketh of a publike fact which he cōmitted in taking a mā by force out of the Church for which he was suspended by S. Augustine vntil he did acknowledge his fault and shew him selfe penitent Therefore his saying can not be drawne to the necessitie of auricular shrift Neither doth Chrisostome vpon the 20. of Iohn declare anie iudgement or opinion that he thought it necessarie for a man to shriue himselfe to a Priest And where you vrge his wordes that the Priest doth lend his voice and his hands it is to farre of to prooue that it is necessarie for euery man to confesse al his secret faults to a Priest But I will set downe all that he saith in that place least anie man which hath not or can not vnderstand the booke may suspect there is further matter contained thererein toward this purpose then in deed there is Magna enim dignit as sacerdotum Quorumounque c. For great is the dignitie of Priestes Whose sinnes you shall remit saith he they are remitted Wherefore Paule saide Obey your gouernours and be subiect to them that you maie doe them the greatest honour For thou lookest to thine owne matter which if thou hast well ordered there is none other charge laide vpon the. The priest if he doe dispose his owne life and haue not diligentlie cared for thine he shall be thrust with the vngodlie into 〈◊〉 and sometime he is not damned for his owne deedes but for ours except he doe all things that perteine vnto him Therefore seing you see the greatnes of the daunger embrace them with much beneuocence which Paule also signified saying They doe watch as those which shall giue an account of your soules and therefore they are much to be looued But if you shal insult against them you shal not dispose your own things wel For so long as the master of the ship is of good cheereful minde the Mariners also are in quiet But if he begin to be hated of thē to be greeued he cannot likwise watch nor exercise his cunning being greeued against his will he shall trouble them with manie euills Euen so the priest if he shall see that the reuerence due to him is performed by vs he shall be able to gouerne vs well But if you shall kill him weakning his handes although he be of neuer so great
the least they disdaine to submit themselues to the Priests whom God hath giuen power vnto to discearne the cleane from the vncleane But I would thou shouldest not beguile thy selfe by false perswasion or some respect of shame that thou hast to confesse vnto the priest who is Gods Vicare For I tell thee thou must vnder his iudgement whome God doth not disdaine to constitute his Vicegerent But this Doctour made a wholl worke of penance and the waies of recouerie of Christian mans fall after Baptisme by the Priests iudgement and sacrament of Confession Of the which bookes if any man list doubt yet let him be assured that they be both auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies whosoeuer made them And our cause is so much more holpen because not onelie Saint Austine who is plaine in these matters vpon Saint Matthwes Gospel and els where as it is declared alreadie but also other of great antiquitie confirme the same and plainly confound the pride of our daies in which men are not somuch ashamed of their sinnes as they be disdainefull to confesse their sinnes vnto a poore priest though he iustlie accupie the verie iudgement seat of God FVLKE You doe wiselie to deuorce vpon his meaning when you haue not his wordes to warrant you For so you maie blinde the eyes of the ignorant to beleeue that you haue som farther intelligence of meaning then can appeare euen by the words that you haue cited out of him For the 〈◊〉 of condemnation is not by 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 against them which are ashamed to confes their faults to men if they amend them before god but against them that flie the knowledge and iudgement of men and yet doe not repent before God And therefore he saith si ea confiteri aut emendare noluerirt if they will not confesse them or amende them and againe si in maio suo permanserint if they shall continue in their euill But if they will amend their faultes and not continue in sinne he dare promise them forgiuenes and life euerlasting as is declared in the last section But now you charge vs with Saint Agustines authoritie and yet you will not abide by it that it is Saint Augastines authoritie wherein you deale more sincerely then Papists are commonlie wont to doe to acknowledge that these bookes you vouch are not admitted for Saint Augustines authoritie Among so many great and large volumes as are certeinlie knowne and generally receiued to be of Saint Augustines writing where you can finde nothing but these bookes of vncerteine credit to mainteine the necessitie of auricular confession the indifferent reader may well gather how litle ground your purpose cā finde in that age of S. Austins For that you haue declared alreadie out of S. Austine vpon S. Matthewes Gospel ells where how plaine it is for these matters let the reader iudge by that I haue answered in those seuerall places But as touching the bookes de visitatione 〈◊〉 being one of the two treatises that you cite as it is certaine that it was not of S. Austines writing so hath it no similitude with the doctrine of his time or with the stile of anie learned or auncient father The Censure of Erasmus vpon these bookes is this Sermo locutulei nec docti nec diserti Quid habuerunt vel frontis vel mentis qui talia scripta nobis obtruserunt nomine Augustini c. These bookes are the speach of a pratler neither learned nor eloquent What shame or wit had they which haue thrust vpon vs such writings vnder the name of S. Augustine Yet you dare assure vs that they be auncient Catholike learned and agreeable to the doctrine of Saint Augustines daies But the reasons of your assurance you spare to shewe giuing vs nothing but your bare word which is sufficient among vnlearned and sottish Papists whose ignorance you knewe would accept whatsoeuer you brought and therefore were carles what all the learned of the contrarie parte might iudge of your impudent and shameles assertions Concerning the other whole worke of penance which you affirme that this doctour made although it were graunted that Saint Augustine was author of that worke of repentance as it shall be easilie graunted that if not Saint Augustine yet some other auncient and learned father was the writer of them neuertheles there is nothing in them by which you are able to prooue the matter in controuersie namelie the necessitie of confession of all mortall sinnes to a Priest And therefore albeit you set a good face vpon the matter you haue neuer a sentence to set downe out of those bookes that is able to giue but onely a glosse or colour to your Popish confession For if you had you woulde not haue beene silent in setting forth the sentence of another beside Saint Augustine as you saie and as I thinke of great antiquitie who against them that be impenitent and neither acknowledge their sinnes vnfainedlie before God nor studie to amend and reforme their wicked life writeth vehementlie shewing three kindes of repentance one before baptisme in them that are of yeares another after baptisme which is dailie sorowing for our infirmities in saying the Lordes prayer the third of heinous and notorious sinnes offensiue to the Church of them that are excommunicated and are not to be receiued without open confession and signes of humilitie But the necessitie of confessing all thinges to a poore priest iustlie occupying the verie iudgement seate of God there is no word in either of those two bookes De medicina poenitentiae de vtilitate poenitentiae ALLEN And Saint Ambrose these mens auncient somewhat did knowe this practise so well and allow it that he did sit in his owne person on confession as Paulinus doth recorde whose behauiour in that diuine office that all Priestes maie perceiue and all the people note I will report Quotie scunque illi aliquis ob percipiendam poenitentiam lapsus suos confessus esset it a flebat vt ilium flere compellerat Causas autem criminum quas illi confitebaniur nulli nisi Domino soli apud quens intercedebat loquebatur bonum relinquens exemplum posteris sacerdotibus vt intercessores apud Deum sin magis quà m accusatores apud homines That is to saie So often as anie man came vnto him to confesse his faultes and receiue penance he so wept that he made the Penitent to weepe also But the faults themselues which they confessed he vttered to no man but to God alone to whome for their sinnes he made sute leauing a blessed example to all Priestes of the posteritie to account themselues rather as intercessours to God for sinnes then accusers of men before the worlde for their sinne This saieth Paulinus of Saint Ambrose whereby at once we see the iudgement of them both for our matter FVLKE The iudgement of Saint Ambrose concerning the necessitie of popish thrift or auricular confession we haue
were once elected before he were a priest or anie other bishop in like case according to the compasse of this regiment let it be first noted I saie that such pardons howsoeuer they be giuen out of the sacraments do not forgiue sinnes that be deadlie And if anie man thought before that the Pope might or did vse to giue such liberall graunts or pardons wherby without the sacrament of penance or consession anie man might claime full remission of all his deadlie sinnes let him correct the misconstruing the matter in him-selfe and assuredlie know that it is not sothought of gods Church nor so meant by the giuer nor so expressed in any pardon FVLKE Stil you follow your positions without probations The Pope dispenseth with othes with vowes with killing of men c. without the sacrament of penance which things if they were donewithout this dispensation I think you will accompt to be mortall sinnes and this he doth by his key of iurisdiction therfore he may as well by the same power absolue men of periutie breach of vowes killing of men or if his key be naught in absolution it can be no better in dispensation Cettaine it is that Saint Paul with the Church of Corinth did release and absolue the incestuous man as largelie as he had bound him For so his words are plaine Whatsoeuer you do pardon I also pardon But you can not agree thereto in anie case although other men be of that minde and Saint Paull saith as much him selfe Peraduenture you will rather beleeue Chrysostome who vpon the former wordes of Saint Paul thus writeth Ne redderet illos elatos quasi huius negotij authoritas penes ipsos esset itaque fieret vt non absoluerent hominem 〈◊〉 adigit illos ad hoc dicens sese quoque ills condonasse Least he should make them to proude as though the authoritie of this matter were wholie in their power and so it might be that they would not absolue the man againe he driueth them to this saying that he also hath pardoned him Againe he speaketh inthe person of Saint Paul Ego iam condonaui qui in priore epistola condemnaueram I haue already pardoned him which in my former epistle had condemned him This is Chrysostomes iudgement whereto in any case you can not agree The reason you adde of the necessitie of the sacrament confession and institution thereof is nothing except you prooue them out of the scriptures as you neuer shall be able the one or the other That remission of sinnes is so proper a worke to God as it is incommunicable to anie creature to graunt the same absolutelie you saie true whether it be with sacrament or without sacrament For remission of sinnes followeth not the external administratio of the sacraments but the sacraments as seales of his worde follow the pleasure of God therein Wherefore your determination of Gods absolute power in remission of sinnes as also your discourse which followeth of Christes humanitie vnited to the Godhead remitting sinnes is cleane contrarie to your former deliberate assertions conteined in the first booke Chapter the 1. 2. as appeareth by the verie titles of the chapters and in the latter end of the 4. Chapter where you make your syllogisme the maior whereof is this They truelie and properlie do remit sinnes vpon whose sentence in earth the pardons of God immediatlie doth insue in heauen Thus you dangle vp and downe looking onelie vpon your purpose in hand and forgetting how your matter should hang together which euerie meane reader will finde out of himselfe though you do not admonishhim therof You returne againe to Saint Pauls absolution which although the text and the doctors interpretation vppon the text be most manifest that Saint Paull as a principall partie in his excommunication doth also as principall minister restore him yet you will haue him to be but onelie an exhorter or counseller of other men what they should do But the text is plaine he did not onelie iudge him worthie to receiue pardon at the hands of priestes or Church of Corinth but he also did for his parte and according to that interest he had ouer the Churchof Corinth himselfe pardon him that in the person or presens of Christ. But hereof you admonish vs that we shal haue occasion to consider more hereafter In the meane time while you would make the Popes pardons seeme more tollerable to ignorant persons you go about to persuade them that you do not exalt the Pope so farre but that you giue to euerie simple priest authoritie in respect of his order more then to the Pope and repeat againe that the Pope can not absolue men of mortall sinne and yet hath the Pope as I haue prooued taken vpon him to absolue men of mortall sinne If he did contrarie to the Popish Churches 〈◊〉 let the Popish Church expostulate with him if his meaning were otherwise then might be gathered by his wordes then was he a shamefull dissembler cosener and deceiuer ALLEN Notwithstanding the power of iurisdiction sometimes ioyneth with the sacrament of penance and the power of orders as when anie indulgence is geuen forth by the Pope in which is expressed that whosoeuer shall be partaker thereof must confesse him-selfe and be contrite for his sinnes past and therewith receiue the holie sacrament of the Altar and such like by this pardon so ioyning with the sacrament of remission or in a manner including the same a full forgiuenes is had of all sinnes and paines therfore which in that case maie be called as it is a plenarie remission or a pardon à poena culpa from both the fault and the paine due therefore FVLKE Howsoeuer you ioyne or disioyne the Popes pardons to or from the singlesoled sacrament of popish confession the Popes pardons for mortall sinnes will prooue no better then fooles bables by your owne confession For without the sacrament of confession you saie they are not able to forgiue deadly sinnes and in the sacrament of confession you holde that deadlie sinnes maie be forgiuen without the Popes pardons therefore either with it or without it the Popes pardons for deadlie sinnes are not worth a rotten nutshell So that while men paie monie to the Pope or his pardoning questors for leaden bulles they are made leude Calues to buy that for mony at his hands which their Parish priests are bound to giue them freelie without monie The Pope therefore in graunting plenarie pardons à poena culpa both from the fault and the paine due therefore doth nothing els but deiude the world seing he can neither graunt pardon for anie mortall fault as you confesse and when he pretendeth to pardon such faultes he pardoneth no more then was pardoned before or which might receiue pardon without his pardon ALLEN There be also certaine greeuous crimes which euerie Curate or Priest Parochian can not remit because they be reserued to the audience of the higher Pastours For
make satisfaction to the Church when there appeereth iust cause so to doe But let vs see how manie vntruthes you do boldlie aduouch which are besides this authoritie First that these Bishops had thought not to haue giuen peace to them that had fallen till the houre of death came But that is not so for they saie onelie they had determined that they should haue performed the penance that was enioyned for a long time vnto them vnto the ful except danger of infirmitie required to giue peace at the point of death Their wordes are these Totheir brother Cornelius Bishoppe of Rome Statueramus quidem iampridem frater charissimè participato inuicem nobiscum consilio vt qui in persecutionio 〈◊〉 supplantati ab aduersario lapsifuissent ac sacrificiis se illicitis maculassent agerent diu poenitentiam plenam si periculum infirmitatis vrgeret pacem sub ictu mortis acciperent Nec enim fas erat aut permittebat paterna pietas diuina clementia ecclesiam pulsantibus claudi dolentibus deprecantib speisulutaris subsidium denegari vt de saculo recedentes sine communicatione aut pace domini dimitterentur cùm permiserit ipse qui tegem dedit vt ligata in terris etiam in Coelis ligata essent solui autem possent illic que hîc prius in Ecclesia soluerentur Sed cum videamus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 infestationis appropinquare coepisse crebris atque assiduis ostensionibus admoneamur vt ad cert 〈◊〉 quod nobis hostis indicit armati parati simus plebem 〈◊〉 nobis diuina dignatione commissam exhortationibus nostris praeparemus omnes omnino milites Christi qui arma desiaerant praelium flagitant intra castra domini colligamus necessitate cogente censuimus eis qui de Ecclesia domini recesserunt sed poenitentiam agere lamentari ac dominum deprecari à primo lapsus sui die non destiterunt pacem dandam esse eos ad praelium quod imminet armari instrui oportere We had decreed indeed long since moste deer brother by aduise taken amongst our selues that such as in the trouble of persecution were supplanied by the aduersarie and fallen and had defiled themselues with vnlawfull sacrifices should doe full penance a long time and if daunger of infirmity did vrge they should receiue peace at the point of death For it was not lawfull neither did the Fatherlie pietie and clementie of God permit that the Church should be shut vp to them that knocke and that aid of healthfull hope should be denied to them that sorrowed and praied for it that departing out of the world they should be sent awaie without anie communicaiion or the Lordes peace seeing he hath permitted which made the lawe that those things that are bound in earth should also be bound in heauen that those things also might be loosed there which were loosed here in the Church But for as much as we see that the daie of another trouble beginneth to approch and are admonished by often and dailie shewings or visions that we should be armed and prepared vnto the battell which the enemie doth denounce vnto vs we should also prepare the people by gods voutsafing committed vnto vs with our exhortations and should gather in anie wise all the souldiers of Christ which call for armour and desire to fight into the Lordes campe necessity compelling vs we haue thought good that peace is to be graunted to them which haue departed out of the Lords Church but from the daie of their falling haue not ceased to shew repentance and to lament and to intreat our Lord and that they also ought to be armed and furnished against the battell which is at hand These are the words of Cyprian his fellow Bishops which you haue abridged at your pleasure if your note booke did not deceiue you to set down that you haue done as the very words of the epi stle Out of which you gather beside that I haue noted before power to inioyne penance and to release the same againe But where you saie they take vpon them cleerelie to inioyne what they list and how long they list that is not so but what is iust and conuenient and so likewise vpon iust cause they release the same or some parte thereof Againe you slaunder them in saying they take vpon thē to pardon after death for there is no such word or matter in all the Epistle They released and receiued them to the communion being in daunger of death but after death they receiued no man to the communion Nay they decreed that whereas Geminius Victor who had made Geminius Faustinus a clergie man his executor contrarie to the decrees of their synods there should be no oblation made for his falling a sleepe nor anie praier frequented in the Church in his name So farre of was it that they would pardon anie man after death when no repentance auaileth The scripture they doe rightlie applie for the establishing of the discipline of excommunication receiuing againe into the fellowship of the Church such as were fallen vpon their repentance as for the sacrament of penance you say wel they exercized discipline without it for such a sacrament they knew not but they claimed no iurisdiction to receiue offenders without good tokens of their repentāce as their words be manifest Where you saie they claimed iurisdiction by their onelie letters to giue them in absence peace pardon of their inioyned penāce as though their letter did resemble the Popes pardons in writing you speake beside the booke for they doe not giue peace by these letters onlie but signifie vnto Cornelius what they thought necessary to be done vpō what reasons left they might be thought to light in loosing the sinews of discipline toward so notorius offenders Your conclusion follow eth not vpon this example Cyprian and his fellow Bishope did vpon necessary cause release the time of penāce enioyned to certaine greeuous offenders and receiued them to the communion vpon certaine perswasion of their répentance therefore the Pope and his popelings maie giue pardon of paine due for sinnes remitted where hone is due and in the sacrament of penance when no such sacrament can be prooued out of the scripture neither doe you rightlie alledge Christes wordes as those holie Fathers did for they alledged them for the discipline of excommunication and absoluing which is necessarie to be vsed in the Church but you to maintaine a tirannical iurisdiction to loose that which other men haue bound without good cause as they did but for manie often times as they did neuer Therefore there is as great oddes betweene their practize of discipline and these Popes pardons as there is distance betweene their ages which is more then a thousand yeares ALLEN And now to make vp this matter for the true meaning of the said text which we now prooue to pertaine to the establishing of the true title of
content to ride on an Asse the Apostles to goe barefot in planting the Gospell But whereon 〈◊〉 the pope and how be his Cardinals feete surbaighted in going barefote to preach the Gospell Although I knowe not where he findeth in holie scripture that the Apostles went barefote in planting the Gospell Their trauell was great into all partes of the world though they had bene well shood yea booted and ridden on horsebacke But if the comparison be made between the ministers of the Gospell and Antichrist the Pope and his proud prelates whether in pacience humility and mildnes of behauiour be more like to Christ and his Apostels we doubt not our cause though the triall were before verie partiall iudges Well howsoeuer it were you should haue suffered Martyrdome rather then to haue resisted and murthered other but that you would not for you sought to liue licentiouslie and had no hope of eternall life after this Among so manie thousand as suffered martyrdome most quietlie without resistance when they were imprisoned tormented and condemned by those which had power to kil their bodies he can finde no examples of pacience and hope of eternall life except all the Protestants in the world will giue there throtes to be cut and suffer themselues to be murthered contrarie to lawe and liberties established by lawfull authoritie and that by priuat persones and bloodie Tirants as the poore Christians were by the Duke of Guyse at Vassi and so should all the rest in Fraunce haue beene if God had not stirred vp diuers Princes and noble men at the request of the Queene Mother to oppose themselues against the furious and trayterous attempts of that bloodie tyrant who abusing the minoritie of the King whome he toke captiue with his mother vsurped moste vnlawfull power against the King the Queene the estates and all the realme Frarine therefore fareth with vs as that seditious Ruffian of Rome who sued an action against his enemie whome he had wrongfullie wounded because he receiued not his weapon deepe enough to death Christ himselfe the paterne of patience saide to the seruant which moste iniuriouslie smote him when he stoode in iudgement before the high priest why smitest thou me if I haue spoken euill beare witnes of euill that is deale with me as order of iustice requireth And Saint Paule his faithfull disciple could not forbeare that painted wall Ananias who pretending to sit in iudgement according to the lawe did contrarie to the lawe commaund him to be smitten and should the Protestants in Fraunce hauing both authoritie and power to defend themselues suffer the Duke of Guyse a priuate man and a straunger with his complices to smite of all their heades as it were with one stroke and not rather to oppose themselues against his furie not onelie for defence of the gospell but also for the maintenance of the lawe and the libertie of their nation There resistance therefore was not treason rebellion crueltie as this declaimer raueth butobedience iustice and authoritie to withstand treason crueltie and rebellion Yet againe he repeateth that lack of libertie was no iust cause of these warres seing euerie where they might fill their paunches carrie a sister wife about with them toule Nuns out of cloysters filthilie abuse them still he speaketh as though none were Authors Captaines or Souldiers of these warres but such licentious ministers or as though so manie princes noble men gentlemen and valiant souldiers as serued in those warres had no other quarrell but to maintaine the gluttonie and lecherie of a fewe lewde ministers of which sort yet he is not able to name one Neuertheles he saith that moste commonlie euerie Apostate Monke had his Nun at his toile and holie Kate hir holie mate Although the worlde knoweth that this might better be verefied of Clauster all Monkes and Nunnes of limiting friers and their holie sisters But srier Luthers pleasure was if we beleeue this man that his Ladie Venus court should be franke and free if the wife saith he will not doe it let the maide supplie her place The will of God commaundeth and necessetie bindeth as well to haue carnall copulation as to eate and drinke See how malice draweth all wordes to the worste meaning Luther in his booke of Babilonicall captiuitie speaking in the person of Assuerus taking Hester his maide to wife when Vasti refused to come to him hath some such wordes as he reporteth If the wife will not let the maide come and possesse her place meaning nothing els but the diuorcing of Vasti and the marrying of Hester but nothing as the Papists cauill that a man hauing a wife maie abuse his maide The other saying of the necessitie of carnall copulation is spoken onelie of them that haue not the gift of continencie for whome marriage is the lawfull and necessarie remedie ordained by God to auoide sinne To conclude this first part he saith it was neither religion nor gospell nor Gods quarrell they meant to further but malice against the pope as Luther in an epistle ad argentin confesseth But Luther neuer confessed any such matter he might well acknowledge his iust hatred against the Pope as the enemie of Christ and so doe all true Christians And if the estates of France had raised warre for malice against the Pope they would haue sent a power into Italie to haue annoyed him or his possessions there as Charles the 5. and Philip his Catholike sonnes haue done for the loue they bare to the Pope As for the restitution of Christian faith wel neere worne out there was no neede he saieth to laboure For the Church of God the seat and piller of truth had alwaies without force battaile kept that most recurently Then it followeth the Church of Rome was not the Church of God for which Christ praied Ihon. 17. To which he promiseth the holie Ghost Ihon. 14. In which are foūd so few sparkes of true faith which mainteineth so many grosse errours eontrarie to the expresse wordes of God conteined in the holie scriptures as often and moste cleare demonstrations hath beene made To be short if the cause of these warrs taken in hand be demaunded which he calleth Tragicall and cruell doinges you shall haue a short answear saith he with Mum Budget except they will alleadge perhappes the ambition auarice boldenes wantones of certaine loose Friers as though he could be ignorant of the publike protestation of the Prince of Condy and a great part of the nobilitie of Fraunce set forth when they beganne the first warres In which they neither alledge the fond surmised causes by Frarine nor mumble them ouer in Mum Budget but plainlie declare the reasonable sufficient and necessarie causes which mooued them to that attempt The copie whereof is yet extant in storie to be seene and read Now is he come to the second part wherein he will prooue that as without iust cause so without authoritie and commission they haue made warres And
a lordly authoritie and imperiall souer aignitie he knoweth not by what right except it be from sathā But we know that frō sathā the first father of falsehood come these shameles lies of their vsurpation of Lordship or affectation of imperiall soueraignitie Wel yet he proceedeth and saith the Bishops doe excommunicase them and the Princes banish them God sheweth no signe for them except it be a miracle to make the liue starke dead while they faine that they are able by the vertue of there gospell to restore the dead to life as one Mathias did in Polonia And the like is reported of Caluine credibly in Geneua Touching the excommunication and banishment by the Prelates of Antichrists Church and Princes thrall vnto the same it ought to be no more preiudice to the preachers of the Gospell now then the condemnation of the high priestes of Pilate and Herod was to the author of the Gospell of olde As for miracles they are not to be required where the same doctrine is taught which so long agoe hath beene confirmed by the miracles of Christ and his Apostles and those fables of raising vp dead men by Caluine and others are like the tales of Robin Good-fellow which are reported to be done in so many places that no wise man thinketh them to be done in any Next this followeth a wholl floode of tedious rhetoricall railing in generall accusations of schisme heresie tumulis sedition rebellion contempt of Princes and lawes order and honestie At length he desireth to be excused of his bitternes in respect of the cursed mouthes of them which raile against Princes and Prelates Yet bringeth no example but of Luthers penne whome many men wish in deede to haue vsed a more temperate stile sometime especiallie against Princes temporall estates and he himselfe did openlie acknowledge his faulte therein especiallie his immoderate inuection against King Henrie the 8. But as For the Pope and his wicked cleargie of heretikes the vngodlie enemies of Christ and his Gospell it were a hard matter to exceede measure in vehemencie against them so lies slaunders be alwaies auoided If Luther saied that the Turke in suffering all religions is wiser then Popish Princes in persecuting the gospell I see not that his saying is greatlie to be misliked For it is more wisedome to follow Gamaliels councell in letting all alone then to fight against god against whome they are sure not to preuaile That Luther diswaded al men to obey the vngodlie decree of the Emperour proclaimed at Wormes who can iustlie be offended which knoweth that the obedience to Princes may not be yealded with manifest disobedience vnto God But here a great matter Luther saied in hearing of the Emperour at Wormes vpon those wordes of our Sauiour Christ in the Gospell I came not to send peace but the sword That it ought to be a thing wished for as moste acceptable to Christistian men and especiallie vnto him that strife and contention should rise and grow about the worde of God The witnes of this report is Lindane who farseth his Dialogues of dubitantius with al manner of fables that he can heare sounding to the discredit of Luther and the Protestants Although I see not what great harme should be in these words being vnderstood according to the saying of our sauiour Christ that seeing all men will neuer agree to imbrace the word of God it were to be wished that many men would contend against the impugners for it then that al men should agree to withstand it But Luther is charged to haue set out to the view of the wholl worlde seditious and heresicall bookes wherein he laboured to abolish all due obedience and to perswade the people torebellion robbing murth er sacking and burning of Citties and Churches I hope there is no man so farre caried beyond all iudgement of reason that he will beleeue this slaunder to be true seeing it is not possible that such a monster as he faineth him to be should haue beene so much fauoured and cherished by Princes and estates as Luther was Neuerthelesse you shall heare his proofes First Wicelius Luthers enemie reporteth that he saied that men should wash their handes in the bloode of the Romish cleargie If this reporte were true it prooueth not the former accusation For allbeit the Popish cleargie were all slaine by lawfull authoritie in detestation of there blasphemie and idolatry The gouernment both of the Church and common wealth should neuer the more decay but how are we bound to beleue Wicelius without proofe in this or in any other matter Then saith Frarine he affirmed in his writinges that it was the verie nature of the Gospell to mooue and stirre vp warre sedition that there ought to be no Magistrate no superiour at all among Christian men For which he quoteth Epist. ad frat infer Ger. which is an impudent fiction For he neuer writte anie such epistle or taught anie such doctrine but the cleane contrarie of the necessitie of Magistrates in al Christian common wealths Secondlie he chargeth him to haue written lib. de Potest seculari that men ought to pray to God that the vplandish men obey not their Princes nor goe to warre against the Turke the title of which booke finde not in his workes And sure I am no such matter is conteined in anie booke of what title soeuer but contrariwise he writeth many treatises against the rebellious Bowres verie earnestlie condemning their disobedience and sedition Thirdlie he quoteth lib. contr duo edict Caesaris that men shoulde contribute nothing towardes the charges of the warres against the Turke which is malitiouslie construed as though he denied tribute to the Emperour whereas he commendeth the iudgemét of the slates of Germany which when the Emperour would yelde nothing to their requestes for the libertie of religion denied to graunt him a subsidie or contribution which he required vnder a pretence to resist the Turke when his purpose seemes rather to be bent against the French King and perhaps euen against them whose monie he defireth to be giuen him He warneth them also that they attempt not rashly to warre vpon the Turke who in councell and moderation doth farre excell these Princes and liuing as they did might hope of no victory Forthlie he noteth lib de bello contra Turcam and Luther assert artic 24 that it was not lawfull for Christian men to warre against the Turke and whosoeuer did fight against the Turke fought against Gods punishment Whereas Luthers meaning was in anie such writings that those Christians which were vnder the Turkes dominion and had free libertie of there religion should not rebell against him although they were otherwise grieuouslie oppressed Last of all he alledgeth out of his booke de 〈◊〉 Babil that neither man nor angell had anie authoritie at all to make anie law or one syllable whereunto Christian men should be bound to obey more or longer then it pleaseth them For we are said
of the Primitiue Church or to disprooue Beatus Rhenanus which denieth the same accusing both the noueltie and and the tyranie thereof and the danger that mens consciences haue beene in through it beside manie other knowne inconueniences ALLEN But now if you conferre with the Fathers of all ages and of euerie notable Church touching this confession to Gods Priests you may beginne if you list euen at this daie and driue vp both the trueth of the doctrine and the perpetuall practise thereof euen to the Apostles time In the late holie Council holden at Trent both the doctrine is confirmed and declared with all grauitie and also the aduersaries of that sacrament and the misconstructers of Christes wordes of remission to pertaine to preaching of the Gospell not to the verie act of absolution be by the consent of all Catholike states of the Christian world accursed excommunicated It was at Furence also decreed in a most generall assemblie of both the Latine and Greek Church that as wel the whol sacrament of penance as that especiall part which is called confession was of Christes institution In the great councell holden at Lateran there is so plaine charge giuen to euerie Christian to confesse his sinnes either to his owne ordinarie Parochian or to some other Priest that hath by him or otherwise authoritie and iurisdiction ouer the penitent that Protestantes affirme albeit verie false'y that confession was first instituted in the said Councel and this was more then three hundred yeares since And foure hundred yeares before that in a Prouinciall Councell that was kept at Vormacia there is a Canon made concerning the qualities of the priests that are constituted to be confessours and Penitentiaries where it is commaunded that they be such Qui possunt singulorum causas originem quoque modum culparum sigillatim considerare examinare That can particularlie trie out and examine the causes of euerie offender the manner and ground of their faultes FVLKE We are so well accquainted with your often bragges of Fathers and Councells that we neuer start for them seeing we knowe you haue nothing but the drosse of the latter times to cast at vs. For the Councell of Trentes decree we esteeme it as it is worthie being made by a few buckeram Bishoppes of Italie and some other Epicurian prelates of other countries to patch vp rather then to repaire the ruines and decaies of the kingdome of Antichrist In the late Councel of Florence I remember nothing decreed of this matter neither doe you note where we should finde it In the Lateran Councell that was kept litle more then 300. yeares since the Protestantes doe trulie affirme that the necessitie of auricular confession was first imposed vpon men of the Romish Church For in the councell of Wormes which you saie was 400 yeares elder there is neuer a word of confession or confessor but of wife consideration to be had of them that did penance by which are ment open offenders that did open pennance neither are you able to prooue the contrarie Paenitentibue saith the Canon serundum differentiam peccatorum c. To the penitents or such as doe penance let penance be decreed by the iudgement of the Priest according to the difference of their sinnes Therefore in giuing penance the Priest ought seuerallie to consider the causer of euerie one the beginning also manner of the faulies and diligentlie to examine and manifestlie to know the affection and sighings of the offenders also to consider the qualities of the times persons of the places ages that according to the consideration of the places ages or times or according to the qualitie of the offences the groning of euery offendor he turne not his eies from the holie rules Thus sarre the Canon after which follow the rules of penance to be apointed for diuers kindes of offences as for him that hath killed a Priest a pagane his parents or brother or for him that hath slain a man in his madnes or against his will and such like whereby it appeereth that the Canon was made for penance to be enioyned to publike offenders and not to compell men to confesse their secret sinnes ALLEN Which decree is borowed word for word almoste out of the last Canon of Constantinople Councell called the sixth generall which was long before all the forsaid Synodes Their discourse is long vpon the Priestes dutie which shoulde sitte on confessions whome they instruct by these wordes Oportebit qui facultatem absoluendi ligandi à Deo receperunt peccati qualitatem speculentur peccatoris promptitudinem ad reuersionem vt sic medicamentum admoueant aegritudini aptum ne si de peccato sine discrimine statuant aberrent à salute aegrotantis Those that haue receiued of our Lorde power to loose and binde must trie out the qualitie of euerie fault and the readines of the offender to returne vnto vertue that they maie prouide a medicine meet to the maladie lest if they should without distinct knowledge of their sinne giue iudgement they should erre in poruiding health for the sicke person By which Councell kept in Constantinople you maie easelie gather that neither confession was euer omitted by the lawe nor the common Penitentiarie long abrogated out of Constaninople Church And when I name these decrees of so manie generall Councels in diu rfe ages I do not onelie call them generallie to witnesse for my cause which were inough seeing euerie determination there passeth as by the sentence of the holie Ghoste and Christes owne iudgement of whose presence such hotie assemblance is assured but I appeale to eueric holy Bishop Priest and Prince of the world that agreed to the same and were there assembled euerie of which was of more experience learning and vertue or at the least of more humilitie then all our aduersaries aliue But now if you go to trie other the learned writers of all times for the practize of this point then our labour shall be infinite but our cause more strong and 〈◊〉 aduersaries sooner confounded I need not for that practize name the learned schoolemem of excellent capacitie in deepe mysteries because they were so late and because Heretikes can not denie but they are all vndoubtedlie against them and euerie one for vs Thomas Aquinas is ours Dionysius is ours I meane the Carthusian If anie man doubt of Saint Bernard let him reade the life of Malachie whome he praiseth sor bringing into vre the most profitable vse of confession in the rude partes of Ireland Saint Bede is prooued before not onelie to haue allowed confession to the Priest but to haue expounded Saint Iames wordes of confession for the sacrament of pennance and vttering our sinnes to Gods Ministers And he recordeth that in our Countrie of England before his daies confession was vsed to a Priest Whereof as also os pennance and satisfaction there is an example or two in the