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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A88587	A modest and clear vindication of the serious representation, and late vindication of the ministers of London, from the scandalous aspersions of John Price, in a pamphlet of his, entituled, Clerico-classicum or, The clergies alarum to a third war. Wherein his king-killing doctrine is confuted. The authors by him alledged, as defending it, cleared. The ministers of London vindicated. The follies, and falsities of Iohn Price discovered. The protestation, vow, and the Covenant explained. / By a friend to a regulated monarchy, a free Parliament, an obedient army, and a godly ministry; but an enemy to tyranny, malignity, anarchy and heresie.	Love, Christopher, 1618-1651.	1649 (1649)	Wing L3168; Thomason E549_10; ESTC R204339	63,269	85

pretended to be be the Prophets of the Lord so the Pope Christs grand Embassadour and Vicar upon earth so the Popish Priests and Jesuites the Ministers of Christ c. Answ. 1. The Letter writers are as they say Ministers of the Gospel and doe not you say so too dare you say the contrary I am sure you were of this mind when you 〈…〉 Spirituall Snaps●ck for Parliament Souldiers there you 〈…〉 learned and conscientious Ministers in one place 〈…〉 godly Divines in another if you be otherwise 〈…〉 would better become you to have brought 〈…〉 throw their Calling then 〈◊〉 and slanders to 〈…〉 names 2. Because the false Prophets said they were Prophets of the Lord c. would you inserte hence the Subscribers are not Ministers of the Gospel Paul said he was an Apostle● false Teachers said they were Apostles when they were not was 〈◊〉 therefore no Apostle John Price saith he deals honestly in 〈◊〉 trade common cheaters will say that they deal honestly also will it therefore follow John Price doth not deal honestly this is all the force your reasoning hath with it which smel● more of the Exchange then the Universitie more of John Price his shop then John Goodwins study Surely who ever among them can vindicate their divine origination these men have administred cause sufficient to question their abilities hereunto Answ. 1. You that make a doubt whether the Ministers can vindicate their divine origination it were well you who presume to be a Teacher in Israel would make good your own tel me in your next whence had you it whether from the shop in the Exchange or the alley in Colemanstreet 2. Whereas you say they have administred cause sufficient to question their Minister●all abilities this is so palpable a calumny that I need not confute you therein because you confute your self In your Epistle you say of the subscribers in the generall that they are judicious grave and learned men and in pag. 12. in the body of your book you say of some of the subscribers that they are wise and good men now if the subscribers be judicious grave learned wise and good men what cause sufficient is administred to question their Ministe●riall abilities Surely were the Apostle Paul upon the earth hee would never question the Ministriall abilities of judicious grave learned wise and good men nor would hee approve them as fit for the Ministery who are injudic●ous raw illiterate indiscree● and bad men yet such are the Teachers you cry up and the others you cry down me thinks if you doubt of their office you should not question their gifts also Some of them have promoted incouraged and ●●etted the very selfe same actions done at another time by other persons as we shall speak to anon which here they 〈◊〉 and branded 〈◊〉 an ●●cursed thing Answ. You neither name the men nor mention the actions when you particular●i●e the men and specifie the actions which at one time they promoted and encouraged and at another anathemati●ed and branded it will then be time enough to give you a particular answer for the present I shall say but this to you by way of Retortion this Brat may be laid at your doores you promoted encouraged and abetted the forcing of the Parliament by the Army at one time yet condemned the violence offered by the King at another but the Ministers of London did not thus they mislik't it in the one as well as in the other Poor London thy Prophets make thee to erre c. Answ. 1. Poor London indeed and it is like to be poorer before you have done with it I could tell who have made themselves rich and the City poor 2. You would have said more truly if you had said thus London of late hath made her Prophets poor rather then the Prophets made London erre 3. You say her Prophets make her err had you named the men and particularized the errors it would have been more credible and demonstrable but generall accusations are no proofes I am sure one Prophet of your own hath vented more grosse and pernicious errors in one year then can be fastned upon all the subscribers throughout the Course of their Ministery None of the subscribers ever held that the English Scriptures or that book called the Bible is not the Word of God that no writings whatsoever whether translations or originalls are the foundation of Christian Religion that a natural man had free wil and power to do good supernatural that those without the Gospel written or preacht have sufficient means for beleeving that the sun moon and stars are the Apostles of Christ to preach the Gospel unto them But these with many others have been invented by Mr. J. Goodwin as may appear in his Hagiomastix and by Divine Authority of the Scriptures quoted in the Testimony of the London Ministers against errors c. I would fain know whether any or all the subscribers have taught any error that carries the least proportion to any of these let the world then judge what Prophets they are that make London to erre One while thou mayst take up arms by the instigation of thy Ministers to maintain the cause of God decency of wooship viz. the Prelaticall faction or the glorious interest of the Clergy thereof another while thou must arm thy self from the same instigations to sacrifice thy gold and silver thy monies and thy plate upon the happy promotion of the House of God the government of Christ c. Answ. 1. This is to notorious a falsity the very mention is a sufficient Confutation did ever any of the Letter-writers as you scoffingly call them ever instigate the people to maintain the Prelaticall faction or the Clergy thereof 't is well known the Prelates were nevee friends to them nor they to the Prelates wherefore the Lord rebuke thee thou lying tongue who goest about to belye their persons when thou canst not confute their doctrin 2. For the latter part of your charge that they did move the people to sacrifice their silver gold monies plate for the promotion of the House of God c. I verily thought that you would mention this as an ornament to the Ministery not a reproach to their persons I am sure you were of this mind when you made your Snapsack for the Parliament souldiers you encouraged the souldiers in the Parliaments war that all the learned godly orthodox conscientious Ministers did join issue with them justifie defensive arms did you commend the Ministers then and dare you blame them now by this I see you have a musty budget out of which at one time you can bring lyes and slanders against the Ministers as well as a Spirituall Snapsack wherein you have Encomiums of their praise The ancient love anion and goodnesse of thine i.e. Londons inhabitants is turned into hatred division and bitternesse each against other causing thy foundations to shake and thy

saith will not reach to such a case as ours For 1. I read in his b●ok called the Appell●tion of John Knox pag. 78. that he pleads onely for the punis●ing of such Kings as are Idolaters and Tyrants against God and his known truth now our late King was not such a one Secondly he speakes of such Kings as were rashly and unadvisedly chosen by the People now our King was not meerly elective but had a title to the Crowne by succession and a just Hereditation Thirdly I do not read in his Book called the Appellation c. that he contends for bringing Kings to a judiciall Tryall and taking away their lives but onely in generall of punishing and deposing them Now what is said here by way of answer to what you alledged out of Mr. Knox may serve also for an answer to Goodman whom you call the great associate of John Knox The third Author you quote is Doctor John Ponnet in his Books called A Short Treati se of Politique Power Cap. 6. pag. 45. Answ. 'T is true Dr. Ponnet is of large principles in this point yet 1. 't is to be observed that when he made his booke it was in the reign of Queen Mary Ann. 1556. and so spake of Popish not Protestant Princes yea it was during the time of his banishment out of England at which time his discontent might make him to bee led more by passion then reason 2. Though hee holds it lawfull for a People to depose and kill a Tyrant yet he gives not this power abslutely to a particular party but to the body of the People The body saith he ●f every State may if it will yea and ought to r●dresse and correct the vi●●● of their Heads and Governours I am sure you cannot say the body of this State was for the execution of the King there were an hundred against it to one for it Yea 3 Though hee goes further that private men may kill a Magistrate yet he holds it with some speciall limitations In some cases private men saith he may kill their Magistrates as when a Governour shall with his sword run upon an innocent or go about to shoot him with a gun or if he should be found in bed with a mans wife or ravish a mans daughter or go about to make away his Country to Forraig●ers Now can you prove the King to be guilty of such things as these If not your quotation of Ponnet doth not reach our case To close this I would aske you Are you of Dr. Ponnets mind that any private man may kill a Tyrant do you thinke that Moses his practise in killing the Aegyptian and Ehud slaying Eglon is to be imitated by every private man It seemes you do so why else do you urge these instances out of Doctour Ponnet to justifie your King-killing Doctrine If you do I feare you will often times follow the Devils instigation to murder the innocent when you thinke 't is the impression of Gods spirit on your heart to do justice on the guilty Oh take heed that you be not given over to beleeve lies and then to worke wickednesse with greedinesse Before I leave this unsafe assertion in Dr. Ponnets Booke of which you approve viz. that private men may kill a Tyrant I desire that this might lye sadly on your heart suppose you should think such a Magistrate to be a Tyrant and a murderer and because none wil put to death that Tyrant therefore you hold your selfe bound to do it suppose againe another thinkes him to be a just Magistrate whom you slew and kils you that killed him and a third kils him that killed you and so ad infinitum Is not this the way to make us Cains not Christians one unto another and in the end not to leave so many men in the world as Cain did when he slew his brother A fourth Author you quote is Junius Brutus supposed by good Authors to be Beza's workes in his booke called Vindiciae contra Tyrannos c. Answ. 1. Indeed if you count the Popish writer supposed to be Toby Matthewes to be a good Author who made that book intituled the Image of both Churches Jerusalem and Babylon by P. D. M. He saith it was Beza's works pag. 105. and yet herein he was no more ingenuous then you were for saith he if it was not Beza's it might be Hottomans pag. 107. and pag. 111. Do you deale candidly with so Orthodox a Divine as Beza was to receive the slanderous reports of Papists against so zealous a Protestant The same Author who said that Beza made that booke called Vindiciae contra tyrannos affirmed also that Beza usurpt another mans parish that hee was the husband of another mans wife c. the one is as true as the other 2. It may bee made demonstrable that Beza was not the Authour of that book which goes under the name of Junius Brutus for can it be imagined that so sober and learned a man as Beza was should be so inconsistent to his owne principles to write one thing in one book and the quite contrary in another throughout all the veins of his writings he calls for subjection to Magistrates but not a word of deposing or murdering of Kings which is the whole drift of that book called Vindiciae contra tyrannos I could produce multitudes of places out of Bezaes works utterly repugnant to what is in Junius Brutu● take for presnt one or two Nullum aliud saith he rememedium proponitur privatis hominibus tyranno subjectis preter vitae emendationem proeces lachrymas that is there is no other remedy left to private men being subject unto a tyrant besides amendment of life prayers and teares Yea Beza was of this judgment that though private men might disobey the sinful commands of a Prince yet he was utterly against taking up of Arms T is ane thing said he not to obey Magistrates and another to resist or take up Arms which God doth not permit thee If Beza was against private mens taking up of defensive arms can it be imagined that he would plead for offensive Arms against the life and person of a King Indeed Beza hath a learned Tract extant de Haereticis a Magistrati● puniendis but not a word de Magistratibus ab Haereticis puniendis Beza did hold that Magistrates should punish Hereticks but never held that Hereticks should punish Magistrates 3. This Iunius Brutus whom you say good Authours affirm to be Bezaes works is indeed and intruth no other then the work of a Jesuite I have it from good hands that Parsons the Jesuite was the Author of that booke there are now some alive that can witnesse it that one Rench a Printer was condemned to be hanged for printing it and another book of the same mans under the name of Doleman And here I cannot but give the world notice that one of the good members now sitting at

A MODEST and CLEAR VINDICATION Of the Serious Representation and late Vindication Of the Ministers of London from the Scandalous Aspersions of JOHN PRICE In a Pamphlet of his Entituled CLERICO-CLASSICVM OR The Clergies Alarum to a third War WHEREIN His King-killing Doctrine is confuted The Authors by him alledged as defending it cleared The Ministers of London vindicated The follies and falsities of Iohn Price discovered The Protestation Vow and the Covenant explained By a friend to a regulated Monarchy a free Parliament an obedient Army and a Godly Ministry but an enemy to Tyranny Malignity Anarchy and Heresie Blessed are ye when men shall revile you and persecute you and shall say all manner of evil against you falsly for my sake rejoice and be exceeding glad for great is your reward in heaven for so persecuted they the Prophets which were before you Mat. 5. 11 12. You fight for the recovery of the Kings Royall person out of the hands of those misereants and reinstate Him in His Royal throne and dignity that both he and His Posterity may yet flourish in their Royalty so that notwithstanding all contradictions you fight for your King John Price in his Spirituall Snapsack for the Parliaments Souldiers p. 8. London Printed for Stephen Bowtell and are to be sold at his shop at the sign of the Bible in Popes-head-alley 1649. To the Reverend and learned Ministers of the Gospel within the Province of London subscribers of the Serious Representation and late Vindication REVEREND SIRS YOu are those whom I honour and love in truth for the truths sake that dwels in you and is so faithfully promoted by you Many besides my selfe rise up and call you blessed for that Serious Representation of your judgments c. and seasonable Vindication of your persons and Ministry which were lately published in print T is true 't is your lot that you who are Embassadors of peace are now lookt upon as men of contention they who once counted your feet beautifull say now the mark of the Beast is on your forehead yea they who would have pulled out their eyes to have done you good are now so filled with prejudice and passion that they would pull out your eyes to doe you hurt this is the best requitall the more you love the less you are loved of them though the people are in such a distempered Phrensie yet I know this provokes your pity not your fury I perceive you are made the But of Satans malice because you make the glory of God and good of souls the mark you aim at in the course of your Ministry the Devill will not let you be at rest because you will not suffer the sins of the times to be at quiet Since the publication of your Letter and Vindication there are many scurr●lous Pamphlets spread abroad which labour to stain the integrity of your hearts and the truth of your testimony among the rest there is one written by John Price which is stuffe● with such falsities absurdities tautalogies calumnies and animosities with such railings and revilings as if he were of the race of Rabs●ekah or the linage of Shime● the Lord rebuke him and clear you He presents you to the world as guilty of malignity perjury hypocrisie as wanting Ministeriall abilities and void of the ingenuity that becomes Ministers of the Gospel as men of falshood deceit dissention and what not but what you are It may be your comfort to consider that so persecuted they the Prophets who were before you Elijah was called a troubler of Israel in the Old Testament Paul a mover of sedition in the New When I considered what August said that a Ministers good conscience is sufficient for himself yet his good name is necessary for others I thought fit to endeavour the Vindication of your names and Ministry from those unjust aspersions cast upon you by many sons of slander your names which are as precious oyntment poured forth spreading the sweet savour of the knowledg of Christ in many places will not want sons of Belzebub as so many flies to corrupt them yet this may be your confidence that although they make their mouths as open sepulchers to bury your names and reputations in yet there shall be a resurrection of names as wel as bodies at the last day at which time all your reproach shall be wiped away and your Revilers made ashamed who have fasly accused your good conversation in Christ This is the prayer and confidence of him who is 〈◊〉 CHRIST-LOVER I HOPE and a Lover of you in him Dated this 13 March 1648. from my house about the middle way between Whitehall and Whitechappell A MODEST and CLEAR VINDICATION Of the Serious Representation and late Vindication Of the Ministers of London from the Scandalous Aspersions of JOHN PRIC● In a Pamphlet of his Entituled CLERICO-CLASSICVM OR The Clergies Alarum to a third War John Price WOULD one imagine that you who thought your self once so good an Alchymist as to extract * honey out of the rock should now such poyson out of a flower I cannot compare you to a Bee unlesse for your sting but to a Spider for sucking poyson from that savory and serious Representation and late Vindication of the Ministers of London against whom you have spit so much of your venome I shal not return you rayling for rayling slander for slander but in a spirit of meekness indeavour to discover your sin to recover your soul Before I shal take a survey of your book in particular I shall give you this observation in the generall That either I was not my self when I read your book or you were not your self when you made it The latter I am induced to beleeve upon this ground in your book you declare your judgment for taking away the li●● of the King and blame the Ministers of London for expressing themselves to the contrary now had you been your self undoubtedly you would not have declared your self for killing the King in this book yet professe against it in another made by you when you were of a more sober sp●●it In your book entituled * A Spirituall Snapsack for the Parliament Souldiers you speak to them in these words You fight for the Recovery of the Kings Royall person out of the hands of these mis●r●ants and re-instate him in his Royall Throne and Dignity that both Hee and His Posterity if God will may yet flourish in their Royalty so that notwithstanding all contradictions you sight for your King 〈◊〉 forbear to descant upon your words he that will compare your two books together must think you if not out of your wit● yet at least out of your way Oh that I might reclaim you that is all the hurt I wish you Passing by your slanderous Title and Epistle I come to a particular survey of your book it self You say The Letter writers are as they say Ministers of the Gospel so the false Prophets of old