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book_n word_n write_n year_n 193 4 4.3852 3 false
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A02198 An aunsvver to George Giffords pretended defence of read prayers and devised leitourgies with the vngodly cauils and vvicked sclanders comprised in the first part of his book entituled, A short treatise against the Donatists of England. By Iohn Greenwood Christs poore afflicted prisoner in the Fleete at London, for the trueth of the gospel. Greenwood, John, d. 1593.; Johnson, Francis, 1562-1618. 1603 (1603) STC 12340; ESTC S103420 74,892 78

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the_o manifestation_n of_o the_o cause_n etc_n you_o here_o forget_v your_o art_n be_v there_o no_o more_o cau●es_n than_o one_o if_o it_o be_v the_o instrumental_a cause_n it_o be_v sufficient_a to_o prove_v that_o if_o your_o miinister_n have_v not_o their_o book_n they_o have_v nothing_o to_o ask_v or_o else_o ask_v that_o which_o be_v in_o the_o book_n they_o ask_v not_o that_o which_o before_o be_v in_o their_o own_o heart_n so_o not_o come_v heavy_a load_a they_o go_v empty_a away_o and_o leave_v the_o matter_n in_o the_o book_n as_o they_o find_v it_o till_o the_o next_o day_n and_o then_o sing_v the_o same_o song_n but_o true_a prayer_n be_v when_o the_o heart_n be_v first_o prepare_v and_o move_v with_o the_o sight_n of_o their_o want_n as_o the_o child_n that_o ask_v bread_n so_o we_o shall_v not_o pray_v of_o custom_n but_o ask_v the_o very_a thing_n whereof_o our_o heart_n feel_v the_o want●et_n your_o comparison_n again_o betwixt_o the_o be_v stir_v up_o by_o a_o sermon_n 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&_o cavil_n etc._n etc._n here_o you_o think_v you_o have_v put_v i_o to_o a_o plunge_n yourself_o need_v nothing_o doubt_v but_o that_o i_o allow_v the_o commandment_n holy_a and_o good_a and_o to_o extend_v to_o all_o christian_n as_o well_o as_o to_o the_o apostle_n namely_o to_o use_v that_o prescript_n form_n of_o prayer_n as_o the_o perfect_a pattern_n and_o direction_n to_o all_o man_n true_a prayer_n but_o you_o i_o trust_v will_v make_v difference_n betwixt_o a_o form_n to_o all_o prayer_n and_o pray_v or_o prayer_n and_o here_o you_o vehement_o urge_v i_o to_o answer_n you_o before_o i_o see_v you_o conclude_v any_o thing_n from_o the_o place_n and_o so_o i_o shall_v run_v into_o folly_n to_o answer_v a_o matter_n before_o i_o hear_v it_o in_o your_o first_o entrance_n of_o this_o discourse_n you_o be_v round_o in_o your_o syllogism_n by_o two_o at_o once_o to_o wrest_v my_o word_n and_o can_v find_v none_o for_o yourself_o it_o seem_v your_o conscience_n be_v witness_v the_o 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use_v with_o we_o for_o that_o which_o be_v not_o god_n undoubted_a word_n unto_o we_o and_o in_o your_o last_o write_n which_o shall_v have_v be_v your_o answer_v you_o say_v god_n speak_v to_o we_o only_o by_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n now_o see_v you_o will_v make_v your_o liturgy_n and_o devise_a form_n of_o prayer_n help_v and_o instruction_n and_o yet_o can_v make_v they_o canonical_a or_o god_n undoubted_a truth_n they_o must_v not_o be_v bring_v into_o the_o public_a assembly_n much_o less_o impose_v by_o law_n upon_o the_o conscience_n of_o all_o man_n and_o here_o remember_v all_o your_o liturgy_n be_v cast_v out_o of_o the_o door_n beside_o that_o you_o have_v not_o make_v in_o both_o write_n one_o direct_a answer_n to_o this_o most_o firm_a proposition_n which_o i_o will_v still_o leave_v upon_o you_o thus_o only_o the_o canonical_a scripture_n &_o lively_a voice_n of_o god_n own_o grace_n be_v to_o be_v bring_v into_o the_o public_a assembly_n for_o doctrine_n &_o 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you_o be_v if_z i_o have_v be_v in_o such_o error_n for_o the_o 102._o psalm_n i_o never_o deny_v but_o that_o it_o be_v a_o most_o excellent_a psalm_n pen_v by_o daniel_n or_o some_o other_o prophet_n and_o give_v to_o the_o whole_a church_n to_o be_v song_n or_o read_v as_o other_o psalm_n in_o the_o form_n of_o prayer_n but_o you_o must_v prove_v that_o the_o church_n do_v use_v it_o as_o you_o say_v to_z read_v it_o over_o for_o pray_v or_o be_v command_v so_o to_o do_v this_o be_v proof_n enough_o they_o do_v not_o because_o it_o be_v a_o psalm_n now_o thoug_a the_o church_n speak_v many_o time_n in_o the_o singular_a
number_n yet_o it_o be_v express_v in_o some_o other_o verse_n that_o it_o be_v so_o but_o now_o admit_v that_o you_o can_v prove_v that_o the_o psalm_n be_v read_v instead_o of_o or_o for_o invocation_n which_o you_o shall_v never_o be_v able_a to_o do_v it_z do_v not_o follow_v that_o man_n write_n shall_v be_v bring_v into_o the_o assembly_n and_o read_v for_o prayer_n the_o 6._o of_o number_n i_o have_v answer_v before_o fron_n the_o 92._o psalm_n you_o reason_n thus_o if_o the_o psalm_n &_o other_o form_n of_o prayer_n in_o the_o scrìpturé_n be_v read_v or_o say_v by_o rote_n the_o very_a form_n of_o word_n for_o pray_v the_o read_v instead_o of_o or_o for_o pray_v here_o you_o dare_v not_o set_v your_o assumption_n it_o be_v so_o false_a which_o shall_v be_v thus_o but_o the_o psalm_n &_o other_o form_n of_o prayer_n be_v read_v for_o pray_v etc._n etc._n this_o i_o show_v you_o be_v very_o untrue_a they_o be_v never_o command_v so_o to_o be_v use_v nor_o never_o so_o use_v my_o proof_n be_v this_o they_o be_v give_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n for_o other_o use_n as_o sing_n reading_z etc._z and_o not_o command_v any_o where_o so_o to_o be_v use_v so_o that_o you_o do_v but_o cavil_v not_o have_v one_o proof_n for_o all_o your_o shameless_a assertion_n now_o where_o i_o demand_v what_o this_o make_v for_o your_o liturgy_n and_o read_v man_n write_n for_o pray_v except_o you_o will_v make_v your_o own_o write_n of_o equal_a authority_n with_o the_o scripture_n you_o answer_v that_o if_o i_o deny_v the_o consequence_n it_o be_v lawful_a to_o use_v the_o psalm_n therefore_o man_n write_n them_z i_o will_v shut_v out_o all_o prayer_n even_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o pastor_n see_v your_o carnal_a handle_n shuffle_n and_o confound_a god_n ordinance_n do_v it_o follow_v that_o because_o man_n write_n may_v not_o be_v bring_v into_o the_o public_a assembly_n or_o there_o read_v for_o pray_v therefore_o the_o prayer_n utter_v by_o the_o lively_a voice_n of_o the_o pastor_n shall_v herebie_fw-fr be_v exclude_v this_o your_o shift_n be_v answer_v in_o the_o first_o argument_n your_o cavil_n be_v stale_a you_o be_v again_o convince_v touch_v the_o other_o matter_n of_o cunning_a phrase_n and_o form_n of_o prayer_n by_o rote_n to_o say_v over_o certain_a number_n of_o word_n it_o be_v popish_a and_o a_o mere_a evasion_n and_o bewray_v your_o ignorance_n in_o prayer_n in_o this_o you_o have_v grant_v i_o that_o he_o which_o pray_v not_o with_o a_o feel_n of_o his_o present_a want_n of_o his_o soul_n but_o say_v over_o certain_a number_n of_o word_n of_o custom_n or_o affectation_n he_o be_v a_o hypocrite_n which_o be_v true_a prove_v mat_n 6.7_o now_o by_o this_o examine_v your_o daily_a monethlie_a annual_a etc_n say_v over_o nay_o reading_z over_o certain_a word_n every_o time_n the_o same_o as_o you_o be_v stint_v it_o be_v plain_a the_o sacrifice_n of_o fool_n ecclesiastes_n 4.17_o the_o two_o point_n wherein_o you_o protest_v so_o willing_o to_o agree_v with_o i_o be_v these_o first_o whether_o only_o such_o prayer_n as_o be_v make_v without_o the_o book_n be_v accept_v of_o god_n child_n second_o whether_o the_o same_o spirit_n teach_v we_o to_o pray_v that_o teach_v the_o holy_a man_n of_o god_n before_o tyme._n you_o grant_v both_o these_o but_z that_o you_o will_v seem_v to_o alter_v the_o first_o question_n well_o than_o god_n be_v own_o spirit_n that_o teach_v they_o to_o pray_v without_o a_o book_n or_o stint_n of_o word_n teach_v we_o so_o to_o pray_v now_o and_o in_o the_o action_n of_o pray_v give_v the_o mouth_n to_o utter_v what_o the_o heart_n desire_v move_v with_o the_o same_o spirit_n still_o then_o after_o your_o long_a shift_v to_o and_o from_o i_o trust_v you_o will_v stand_v to_o your_o first_o word_n that_o you_o never_o read_v in_o the_o scripture_n any_o commandment_n for_o read_v of_o prayer_n secondlie_o to_o say_v over_o certain_a number_n of_o word_n or_o phrase_n of_o the_o scripture_n of_o custom_n or_o affectation_n without_o feel_n of_o or_o ask_n for_o our_o present_a want_n be_v hipocresie_n therefore_o i_o will_v conclude_v as_o i_o begin_v i_o argument_n stand_v good_a that_o to_z do_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n werof_o we_o have_v no_o warrant_n of_o god_n word_n be_v sin_n but_o read_v prayer_n have_v no_o warrant_n in_o god_n word_n ergo._fw-la etc_n the_o three_o argument_n we_o may_v not_o in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n receive_v any_o tradition_n which_o bring_v our_o liberty_n into_o bondadge_n read_v prayer_n upon_o commandment_n bring_v into_o the_o public_a assembly_n be_v a_o tradition_n that_o bring_v our_o liberty_n into_o bondage_n therefore_o read_v prayer_n etc._n etc._n the_o minor_a be_v thus_o prove_a that_o god_n have_v leave_v it_o in_o all_o man_n freedom_n to_o pray_v as_o the_o present_a occasion_n require_v and_o the_o spirit_n give_v utterance_n according_a to_o his_o will_n again_o no_o man_n have_v power_n to_o command_v any_o thing_n in_o the_o worship_n of_o god_n which_o god_n have_v not_o command_v etc_o mark_n 7.7.8.9_o mat._n 15._o gal._n 5_o 1._o etc_n g._n gifford_n i_o say_v it_o be_v ungodlie_a and_o near_a unto_o blasphemy_n to_o affirm_v that_o prescript_n form_n of_o prayer_n be_v a_o tradition_n bring_v our_o liberty_n into_o bondage_n etc._n etc._n my_o reason_n be_v &_o be_v that_o the_o lord_n by_o moses_n prescribe_v a_o form_n of_o blessing_n etc._n etc._n nom_fw-la 6._o the_o prophet_n in_o the_o psalm_n have_v prescribe_v many_o form_n of_o prayer_n our_o saviour_n christ_n prescribe_v a_o form_n of_o prayer_n etc._n etc._n i._o greenwood_n here_o be_v a_o great_a storm_n and_o yet_o nothing_o but_o wound_n if_o you_o be_v in_o cai●has_n his_o place_n you_o will_v either_o have_v rend_v your_o clothes_n for_o zeal_n or_o else_o condemn_v i_o before_o you_o understand_v what_o i_o say_v be_v it_o simple_a deal_n do_v you_o think_v to_o say_v i_o hold_v it_o a_o bondage_n break_v our_o liberty_n for_o the_o lord_n by_o moses_n 〈◊〉_d prophet_n our_o saviour_n christ_n also_o to_o set_v down_o a_o form_n of_o prayer_n or_o to_o prescribe_v a_o form_n of_o prayer_n do_v you_o not_o see_v that_o the_o minor_a proposition_n speak_v of_o the_o read_n for_o pra_v and_o not_o of_o the_o form_n of_o prayer_n again_o of_o the_o commandment_n where_o by_o man_n be_v compel_v to_o read_v instead_o of_o pray_v do_v you_o not_o see_v that_o these_o word_n bring_v in_o to_o the_o public_a assembly_n do_v specifye_v the_o matter_n to_o be_v man_n writing_n to_o be_v read_v in_o the_o assembly_n as_o a_o worship_n yea_o invocation_n of_o god_n name_n which_o be_v a_o gross_a mockery_n not_o that_o there_o be_v any_o commandment_n to_o read_v over_o those_o form_n of_o prayer_n mention_v by_o you_o for_o pray_v and_o so_o the_o commandment_n so_o to_o read_v they_o for_o pray_v be_v a_o abuse_n of_o they_o and_o ah_o commandment_n of_o man_n and_o not_o of_o god_n etc_n but_o that_o 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have_v and_o do_v practice_v the_o same_o here_o therefore_o i_o wish_v the_o reader_n to_o observe_v that_o you_o brownist_n do_v not_o only_o condemn_v the_o church_n of_o england_n but_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n whatsoever_o and_o can_v be_v no_o other_o but_o donatist_n i._o greenwod_fw-la i_o trust_v your_o madness_n will_v appear_v to_o all_o man_n the_o poison_n of_o asp_n be_v under_o your_o tongue_n he_o that_o can_v rule_v his_o tongue_n his_o religion_n be_v in_o vain_a shall_v i_o in_o your_o hea●e_n be_v press_v with_o multitude_n of_o church_n they_o hear_v what_o the_o lord_n say_v thou_o shall_v not_o follow_v a_o multitude_n to_o do_v evil_a 23.2_o we_o have_v the_o word_n among_o
yet_o you_o will_v make_v man_n believe_v i_o reason_v thus_o that_o the_o apostle_n do_v not_o neither_o our_o saviour_n himself_o nor_o any_o that_o we_o read_v of_o use_v these_o word_n in_o prayer_n therefore_o they_o do_v not_o use_v it_o nay_o i_o say_v they_o do_v not_o use_v those_o very_a word_n in_o their_o prayer_n but_o use_v other_o word_n according_a to_o their_o particular_a want_n as_o our_o saviour_n in_o the_o 17._o of_o john_n be_v say_v to_o do_v therefore_o he_o nether_a use_v nor_o command_v other_o to_o say_v over_o those_o word_n and_o so_o i_o may_v well_o conclude_v that_o to_o impose_v certain_a word_n to_o be_v read_v or_o say_v by_o ro●te_n for_o pray_v upon_o the_o church_n espeaciallie_o man_n write_n be_v a_o intolerable_a pride_n even_o a_o set_n of_o man_n in_o the_o place_n of_o god_n also_o to_o use_v they_o or_o bow_v down_o unto_o they_o in_o that_o order_n be_v sin_n and_o breach_n of_o god_n law_n the_o four_o argument_n because_o true_a prayer_n 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etc._n and_o afterwards_o be_v not_o my_o bare_a denial_n as_o good_a as_o your_o bare_a affirmation_n etc._n etc._n i._o greenwood_n stay_v yourselves_o and_o wonder_v they_o be_v blind_a and_o make_v blind_a be_v there_o any_o doctrine_n more_o spiritual_a any_o more_o inculcate_v by_o the_o holy_a ghost_n then_z this_o access_n unto_o god_n in_o the_o mediation_n of_o 〈…〉_z own_o spirit_n to_o make_v our_o mind_n know_v unto_o god_n to_o offer_v up_o the_o 〈…〉_z own_o spirit_n in_o we_o and_o fetch_v increase_v from_o he_o by_o this_o 〈…〉_z true_a 〈◊〉_d with_o the_o heart_n and_o voi●e_n this_o colioquie_n with_o the_o high_a ●●iestie_n of_o god_n be_v it_o a_o m●rter_n of_o no_o weight_n to_o learn_v to_o discern_v between_o 〈◊〉_d exercise_n of_o the_o spirit_n and_o to_o exercise_v his_o grace_n aright_o according_a to_o 〈◊〉_d right_o be_v it_o ●aid_v the_o wisdom_n of_o god_n be_v foolishness_n to_o the_o natural_a man_n but_o mr._n gifford_n will_v say_v he_o grant_v the_o proposition_n true_a and_o weighty_a matter_n 〈◊〉_d be_v the_o assumption_n that_o be_v so_o frivolous_a and_o as_o he_o say_v a_o little_a after_o ridiculous_a well_o let_v they_o be_v weigh_v 1._o that_o read_v instead_o of_o pray_v be_v not_o a_o powringh_n fourt_n of_o the_o heart_n by_o lively_a voice_n 2._o that_o it_o be_v a_o quench_n of_o the_o spirit_n to_o read_v a_o other_o man_n word_n upon_o a_o book_n in_o the_o very_a action_n of_o pour_v four_o our_o heart_n as_o we_o pretend_v 3._o that_o it_o be_v not_o a_o un●ordening_v of_o a_o contrite_a heart_n by_o faith_n but_o a_o ignorant_a action_n to_o read_v for_o pray_v 4._o that_o we_o can_v s●rive_v in_o prayer_n continue_z in_o prayer_n be_z importunate_a etc_fw-la by_o read_v upon_o a_o ●oo●e_n these_o be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d he_o t●incketh_v of_o so_o little_a weight_n the_o bare_a denial_n and_o contradiction_n whereof_o he_o hold_v of_o such_o credit_n that_o it_o must_v suffice_v for_o answer_n see_v he_o say_v it_o he_o 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5.19_o extinguish_v you_o not_o the_o spirit_n now_o to_o suppress_v and_o leave_v unutter_v the_o passion_n of_o our_o own_o heart_n by_o the_o work_n of_o the_o spirit_n give_v we_o cause_n of_o prayer_n and_o instead_o thereof_o to_o read_v a_o other_o man_n writing_n i_o doubt_v not_o will_v be_v find_v and_o judge_v of_o all_o that_o have_v spiritual_a eye_n to_o see_v a_o quench_n of_o that_o grace_n yea_o in_o that_o action_n the_o read_n hinder_v we_o from_o plead_v our_o cause_n with_o god_n according_a to_o the_o occasion_n we_o see_v in_o our_o own_o heart_n and_o by_o not_o teach_v man_n to_o draw_v out_o the_o grace_n of_o god_n in_o they_o to_z offer_v up_o the_o sweet_a incense_n of_o his_o own_o spirit_n in_o prayer_n but_o a_o other_o course_n devise_v by_o fleshly_a policy_n the_o people_n grow_v in_o such_o atheism_n that_o they_o learn_v not_o all_o the_o day_n of_o their_o life_n to_o lay_v open_a their_o own_o soul_n before_o the_o lord_n in_o prayer_n how_o 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commandment_n the_o other_o heart_n go_v with_o the_o word_n and_o say_n amen_o they_o that_o hear_v pray_v not_o as_o well_o as_o he_o that_o according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n speak_v our_o public_a prayer_n be_v not_o the_o prayer_n of_o the_o church_n but_z of_o he_o that_o speak_v only_o but_o now_o god_n have_v otherwise_o teach_v 1._o cor._n 14._o and_o acts._n 4._o it_o must_v needs_o be_v that_z mr._n giss_n be_v in_o great_a error_n to_o think_v none_o but_o he_o that_o speak_v pray_v i_o take_v then_o such_o hear_n of_o a_o other_o voice_n pray_v and_o this_o to_o be_v a_o foul_a error_n to_o publish_v the_o contrary_a but_o that_o prayer_n both_o edifi_v he_o that_o speak_v and_o he_o that_o hear_v and_o together_o in_o heart_n pray_v i_o make_v no_o doubt_n yet_o hereupon_o to_o affirm_v that_o here_o be_v other_o mean_n of_o instruction_n to_o be_v use_v in_o the_o instant_a action_n of_o pray_v then_o pray_v it_o self_n be_v as_o gross_a as_o the_o other_o and_o both_o a_o confound_a of_o spiritual_a exercise_n and_o flat_a contradiction_n of_o the_o scripture_n especial_o so_o diverse_a weighty_a action_n of_o mind_n and_o body_n as_o proseuche_o and_o anagnosis_fw-la pour_v out_o our_o heart_n to_o god_n in_o prayer_n and_o read_n at_o other_o time_n i_o do_v not_o only_o allow_v but_o teach_v that_o we_o have_v all_o the_o day_n of_o our_o lyve_n need_v to_o be_v instruct_v to_o pray_v aright_o and_o that_o read_n be_v a_o bless_a mean_n thereunto_o so_o that_o you_o see_v while_o you_o of_o purpose_n will_v oppose_v you_o run_v yourself_o upon_o the_o rock_n in_o stead_n of_o justify_v your_o accusation_n of_o two_o heresy_n to_o be_v find_v in_o my_o first_o reason_n you_o have_v publish_v this_o folly_n which_o you_o must_v retract_v if_o you_o will_v obey_v the_o truth_n mr._n giffard_n them_z grant_n that_o read_n be_v but_o to_o help_v to_o prayer_n and_o not_o pray_v and_o now_o be_v show_v that_o it_o can_v be_v no_o help_n in_o that_o 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