other children are with breach of his Mothers virginity as Bucer and Molineus in Vnione Euangelij part 3. and Caluin signifieth no lesse in harmo sup 2. Math. vers 13. 4. Suffered vnder Pontius Pilate crucified dead and buried Friar Luther with a great band of his followers doth toughly defend that the God-head it selfe suffered which to be blasphemy Musculus doth prooue in his booke of the errours of Luthers Schollers yet Beza with all them that hold Christ to haue beene our Mediatour according to his diuine nature can hardly saue themselues from the same blasphemy For the chiefest ast of Christs mediation consisteth in his death if then the God-head did not suffer that death it had no part in the principal point of Christs mediation Hither also appertaine all these their blasphemies to wit that Christ was so frighted with the apprehension of death that he forgot himselfe to be our Mediatour yea refused as much as in him lay to be our redeemer Item that he thought himselfe forsaken of God and finally despaired Se the Preface Caluin denieth not the Creed to be Apostolike R. ABBOT Whether M. Bishop deale honestly with Caluin as touching his opinion of the Creed let it appeare by the very words of Caluin in the very place alleaged Where hauing named it the Apostles Creed he taketh occasion therupon thus to say a Caluin Institut lib. 2. cap. 16. sect 18. Apostolicum autem nuncupo de authore interim minime solicitus Apostolis certè magno veterum Scriptorum consensu ascribitur siue quod ab illis in commune conscriptum editum existimabant siue quòd compendium istud ex doctrina per corum manus tradita bona fide collectum tali elogiâ— confirmandum censuerunt Neque verò mihi dubium est quina prima flatim ecclesiae origine ad ecque ab ipso Apostolorum seculo instar publicae omnium calculis receptae confessionis obtinuerit vndecunque undem initio fuerit profectum Nec ab vno aliquo priuatim fuisse conscriptum verisimile est â—â—m ab vltima vsque memoria sacrosanctae inter pios omnes authoritatu fuâ—sse constet Quod vnicè curandum est id extra omnem controuersiâ—m positum habemus totam in eo fidei nostrae historier saccinctè distinctâ—quâ— ordine recenseri nihil autent contineri quod solidis Scripturae testimocijs mâ— sit consignatum Quo intelâ—ecto de anthâ—re vel anxiè laborare vel cum alique digladiari nihil attinet I call it Apostolike not making any great scruple who was the authour of it Surely by the generall consent of the ancient writers it is ascribed to the Apostles either for that they thought it in common written and set foorth by them or for that they thought good by such a title to confirme this Briefe which is faithfully gathered out of the doctrine deliuered by their hands Neither doe I doubt whencesoeuer it first began but that from the first originall of the Christian Church and from the very time of the Apostles it tooke place as a publicke and generally approoued confession Neither is it likely to haue beene written in priuate by any one because it is certaine that from the very beginning it hath beene of sacred authority amongst all godly men That which we are entirely to regard is without all controuersie or doubt that the whole story of our faith is therein briefely and distinctly set downe and nothing contained in it but what is confirmed by sound testimonies of the Scripture Which vnderstood and knowen it is bootlesse for a man either much to trouble himselfe or to contend with any other concerning the authour of it Which words of Caluin conteining both his owne iudgement and ours concerning the authority of the Creed doe sufficiently refell the malicious cauils of this vaine and absurd wrangler By our doctrine he saith it is not necessary to beleeue the Creed yea it is wholly to be reiected because it is no part of the written word Indeed formally it is no part of the written word because it is not a part of the very text of Scripture there set downe in that frame of words wherein we vse it but doe we any where say that whatsoeuer is not so a part of the written word is wholly to be reiected or not necessary to be beleeued Nay we are so farre from saying or thinking so as that we hold many things in M. Bishops bookes necessary to be beleeued which notwithstanding are so farre from being a part of the written word as that for the manifold vaine cauillations and impudent falsehoods therein contained they deserue rather to goe for wall paper than to be read for learned bookes As touching the matter and doctrine of the Creed Caluin affirmeth that it is taken out of the doctrine of the Apostles set downe in the written word and therefore it is no more to be reiected than the word it selfe from whence it is taken He denieth not but that the Apostles might be and were the authours of it though he cannot certainly affirme that they were so Hee acknowledgeth the consent of ancient writers that it was composed by the Apostles He confesseth the antiquity thereof euen from their very time He holdeth it vnlikely to haue beene published by any priuate man and therefore leaueth it most likely to be done by them By whomsoeuer it was done because it is consonant to the Apostolike spirit and doctrine he acknowledgeth all sacreed authoritie and opinion as heeretofore so now to be attributed vnto it What is there heere that malice it selfe could blame but that Popish malice aboue other is blinde and cannot see it owne shame Let vs now goe along with him to the particulars and see what wise worke he maketh to prooue that which he saith the Protestant Doctours doe foully mangle and in manner ouerturne the greatest part of the Creed Concerning the first article he saith we erre many waies But how I pray you first saith he they doe destroy the most simple vnity of the Godhead by teaching the diuine essence to be really distinguished into three persons But how doth that follow One essence of God distinguished really into three persons for if vnity of essence in this distinction bee terminus a quo and triality of persons be terminus ad quem and the reality of distinction be vnderstood not in the essence for it selfe but onely in the persons how shall it destroy the simple vnity of the God head to say that one diuine essence is really distinguished into three persons What will M. Bishop say that the distinction of the persons is intellectuall only and not reall Let him then set vp a schoole for Sabellius and Praxeas the heretickes and teach as they did that b August de haeres ad Quod vultd c. 41. Dicunt eundem ipsum esse patrem filium sp sanctum the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost are but one
not Apostolical traditions which appeare certainely so to be and yet woorthily we reiect those vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions of the Papists which are falsely fathered vpon the Apostles It is by these vnwritten doctrines and counterfet traditions that the grounds of our faith are impeached and shaken We therefore cannot be said to shake the grounds of faith who retaine the meere simplicity of those grounds and refuse all other strange and bastard stuffe but they shake the grounds of faith who become patrons of such tradition coloured with the names of the Apostles when notwithstanding they plainely crosse the written doctrine of the Apostles 2. W. BISHOP But let vs descend to the particulars wherein the truth will appeare more plainely Thus beginneth Master PERKINS with the Creede First of all it must be considered that some of the principall doctrines beleeued in the Church of Rome are that the Bishop of Rome is the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike Church that there is a fire of Purgatory that Images of God and Saints are to be placed in the Church and worshipped that Praier is to be made to Saints departed that there is a propitiatory sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of the quicke and the dead These points are of that moment that without them the Roman religion cannot stand c. And yet marke the Apostles Creed which hath beene thought to containe all necessary points of religion to be beleeued and hath therefore beene called the key and rule of faith This Creede I say hath not any of these points nor the expositions made thereof by the ancient Fathers nor any other Creed or confession of faith made by any Councell or Church for the space of many hundred yeeres This is a plaine proofe to any indifferent man that these bee new articles of faith neuer knowen in the Apostolike Church and that the Fathers and Councels could not finde any such articles of faith in the bookes of the old and new Testament Answer is made that all these points of doctrine are beleeued vnder the article I beleeue the Catholike Church the meaning whereof they will haue to be this I beleeue all things which the Catholike Church holdeth and teacheth to be beleeued If this bee as they say wee must beleeue in the Church that is put our confidence in the Church for the manifestation and the certainety of all doctrine necessary to saluation And thus the eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend vpon the determination of the creature And the written word of God in this respect is made insufficient as though it had not plainely reuealed all points of doctrine pertaining to saluation And the ancient Churches haue beene farre ouer-secene that did not propound the former points to be beleeued as articles of faith but left them to these latter times Thus farre Master PERKINS Wherein are hudled vp many things confusedly I will answere briefly and distinctly to euery point The first is that in the Apostles Creede are contained all points of religion necessary to be beleeued which is most apparantly false as the Protestants themselues must needes confesse or else grant that it is not necessary to beleeue the King to be Supreame-head of the Church or that the Church is to be gouerned by Bishops or that we are iustified by Christs iustice imputed to vs or that there be but two Sacraments or that the Church seruice must be said in the vulgar tongue or that all things necessary to be beleeued to saluation are contained in the Scriptures To be short not one article of their religion which is contrary to ours is conteined in this Creede of the Apostles therefore to affirme as he doth all necessary points of religion to be contained in this Creede is to cast their owne religion flat to the ground and to teach that not one point of it is to be beleeued this Creede may neuerthelesse be called the key and rule of faith because it containeth the principall points of the Christian religion and doth open as it were the doore vnto all the rest and guide a man certainely vnto the knowledge of them by teaching vs to beleeue the Catholike Church which being the pillar and ground of truth 1. Tim. 3.15 Ioh. 16.13 directed and guided by the spirit of truth will alwaies instruct her obedient children in all truth necessary to saluation Then saith M. PERKINS The eternall truth of God the Creatour shall depend on the determination of the creature Nothing lesse for Gods truth is most sincere and certaine in it selfe before any declaration of the church but we poore creatures that are subiect to mistaking and error should not so certainely vnderstand and know that truth of God vnlesse hee had ordained and appointed such a skilfull and faithfull Mistris and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it Like as pure gold is not made perfect in it self by the Gold-smithes touch-stone but other men are thereby assured that it is true and pure gold euen so the word of God doth not borrow his truth from the Church but the true children of God are by the holy Church assured which is the same his word If we did hold as we do not that the written word containeth all points of doctrine necessary to saluation yet were it most necessary to relie vpoÌ„ the Catholike churches declaration both to be assured which books of scriptures be Canonicall which not whereupon Saint Augustine a man of far better iudgement than any of these daies said Con. Epist. Iud. cap. 5. that he would not beleeue the Gospel vnlesse the authority of the church mooued him therunto as also to vnderstand them truly because the words of holy Scripture without the true meaning and sense of them do but deceiue men and lead them into error and to that end haue alwaies beene and yet are by Heretikes abused to draw others after them into destruction The like may be said of other ancient Creeds and confessions of faith which holding the Apostles Creed did adde some few points vnto it namely such as were in those daies called into question by Heretikes of greater fame and who were followed of many not touching in particular diuers other articles generally beleeued of all true Christians or else by soâ—e fewe and obscure men onely questioned Wherefore to argue that no other points of faith are to be beleeued but such as are expressed in ancient Creeds is to cut off a great part of our faith Lastly it is most vntrue to say that those ancient Fathers and Councels knew not of these articles of faith by him mentioned for they haue most plainely taught them in their writings yea and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions now againe reuiued and holden by the Protestants as in those seuerall questions I haue before prooued R. ABBOT How M. Pirkins vnderstood that all necessary
obed cap. Vâ—am sanctam De ecclesiastica potestate verificatur vatietnium Ieremiae Ecce constitui te hodie c. Decretall of Boniface the eight and M. Bishop with a wile slily passeth by them and telleth me that I lie saying withall that the common opinion of all their Diuines is to the contrary whereas a number of their Diuines haue published it to the world that God hath setled the power of all kingdomes immediatly in the Pope and that the further disposing of them belongeth to him as is to be seene in the a Large Examination of M. Blackwell pag. 27. 28. c. examination of M. Blackwell the Arch-priest by many of their speeches to that effect some of the bookes being approoued and printed in Rome as containing nothing contrary to the Catholike faith The fift lie saith he that he maketh within the compasse of lesse than halfe a side is that the Pope saith By me Kings raigne whereas notwithstanding the Pope saith expresly concerning the Emperour b Auentin vt supra Per not imperat By me he raigneth and I further quoted the place where he doth say so in his booke of ceremonies which he suppresseth as shal appeare anon Now doest thou not thinke gentle Reader that this man hath a great facility in obiecting lies And this is his maner thorowout his whole booke whilest as the drunken man cried fire fire when he saw but the rednesse of his owne nose so doth he cry out euery while a lie a lie when the lie is no other but a giddy apprehension of his owne distempered braine being with anger growen so farre into melancholy that he thinketh euery straw that lieth in his way to be a lie And indeed we know by experience how the subtil thiefe when he is pursued crieth out with all his might stop the thiefe stop the thiefe that whilest he seemeth to cry after another he himselfe may not be taken to be the thiefe So it is with M. Bishop who in policy crieth out vpon me a lier a lier that he in the meane time may lie freely and no man may suspect him But who the lier is the processe shall declare and let him receiue the shame that belongeth therto In the meane time whereas for reprochfull words he hath applied to me those words of Saint Paul c Rom. 3.13 Their throat is an open sepulcher with their tongues they deale deceitfully the venime of serpents is vnder their lips their mouth is full of malediction and bitternesse c. I wish him to consider whether it touch him which is written d Rom. 2.21 Thou which teachest another teachest thou not thy selfe And againe e Luk. 19.22 Out of thine owne mouth will I iudge thee thou euill seruant Consider him I pray thee gentle Reader thorowout his whole booke and thinke with thy selfe whether he be not in this behalfe a sit master for me to be instructed by As touching that he saith that f Pag. 5. if I hold that course of scurrility I shall driue him to giue me ouer in the plaine field I wonder not thereat not for that I giue him cause by any scurrility of mine to leaue the field but for that hee seeth a necessity thereof by the badnesse and wretchednesse of a leaud and vnhonest cause which hee seeth himselfe vnable to defend 6. His next quarrell is that I cite for confirmation and proofe of any doubt our owne writers Bale Fox Iewel Humphrey Holinshed and such other Now if I doe so then I am a foole but if I doe not so then what is he Some of them whom he nameth haue compiled stories of former times collecting what they haue found recorded by others that were before them whose stories standing vncontrolled is it not as lawfull for me to cite as it is for Bellarmine and the rest of his fellowes to cite g Tert. Parsons Respo ad Apolog. pro iuram fidelit Baronius the Cardinall Blondus the Popes secretary Genebrard h Bellarmin de notis eccles cap. 14.15.16 c. Surius Cochleus Staphylus yea Bolsecke a very infamous runnagate and rakeshame and such other of the like stampe or for M. Higgons so often to cite i Motiues Pag. 44. 75. 78. Parsons his three Conuersions or for Parsons there to cite k Three Conuers pa. 2. cha 10. Examen of Fox his calendar chap. 16. passim Waldensis Antoninus Genebrad Surius Prateolus Sanders and such like yea to report what he list vpon hearesay from l Ibid chap. 12. sect 15. Sir Francis Inglefield or for M. Bishop to cite m Of Images sect 20. Bellarmine n Preface 2. part sect 13. Caluino-turcismus o Answer to the Aduer sect 10. Conrad p Ibid. sect 46. Ludolph q Of Traditions sect 16. Gregory Martin yea to report to vs a matter out of r Preface 2. part sect 8. a conference at Paris vpon his owne word yea to write vs a whole booke as he hath done vpon the credit of Bellarmine and some other of his owne side Surely we haue no cause to doubt but that those writers of ours in their relations are men of as great honesty and fidelity as any of theirs though I alledge from them matters of history and fact or doe perhaps cite a sentence of an author mentioned by one or other referring the Reader to the reporter because I haue not the prime authours workes at hand to search the original of it yet very childishly doth M. Bishop conclude heereof that I make their word a confirmation or proofe for any point of faith because I respect not at all what they say but what they haue said or done whose doings or sayings they report and their report I cannot but take to be true so long as I see M. Bishop can say nothing for the disproofe of it Thus haue I alledged out of Å¿ Answer to the epistl sect 4. pag. 26. Holinshed the epistle of Eleutherius Bishop of Rome to Lucius King of Britaine not to prooue any matter of question by Holinsheds word what wizard would so conceiue but to shew by Eleutherius what the duty of a King is towards the Church of God What a iest is this saith M. Bishop how knew this late writer what passed so long before his owne time But I pray thee gentle Reader put the like question to him He telleth thee in great sadnesse that t Reproofe Pag. 248. amongst many other pardons granted by S. Gregory whereof he cannot tell one there is to be seene vntill this day one altar by him erected in the Monastery of S. Andrews in Rome whereat whosoeuer saith Masse for a soule in Purgatory shall deliuer a soule from thence Say now to him What a iest is this how knoweth M. Bishop a new vpstart writer what passed so long before his owne time Would he not thinkest thou take pepper in the nose if a
vp with a bit of bread and asuppe of wine as this tauerne-companion prophanely speaketh but very truely and faithfully we deliuer the fruit and effect of this heauenly banquet Which is not a heauenly banquet as he teacheth it but a grose Capernaitish error earthly fancy nor any matter of comfort to vs because it is no comfort to haue Christ in our bellies but in our hearts nor any dignity to vs but a horrible indignity to Christ himselfe who by this meanes is made subiect to be eaten of dogges and swine and mice and other vile creatures as they most damnably affirme as hath beene z Answer to the epistle sect 14. Auricular confession a meere superstition before declared Confusion of our sinnes wee make daily to God and wee teach men in trouble of conscience to ease their wounds by opening them as to other men when occasion requireth so specially to the minister of Gods word to receiue instruction and comfort towards God As for their Popish confession deuised by the Schoolemen requiring a necessary and particular enumeration of all sinnes it is meerely superstitious and serueth either to snare and halter the consciences of men or to nourish and harden them in sinne M. Bishop magnifieth the effect thereof but indeed plaieth the hypocrite therein because he well knoweth that there is no where lesse piety and deuotion no where more profanenesse and filthines than in Spaine and Italy where confession is most strictly seuerely required What fruits it bringeth foorth amongst them he must giue vs leaue to thinke though we are loth to speake onely I say with the words of the Apostle a Eph. 5.12 Extreme vnction deuised by heretikes It is a shame euen to name the things that are done of them in secret Their extreme vnction which hee mentioneth next was the deuice of the Valentinian heretikes and b Aug. haer 16. feruntur suos morientes nouo modo quasi redimere per oleum balsamum aquam inuocationes quas Hebraicis verbis dicunt super capita eorum Epiphan haer 36. vt qui has inuocationes in vitae exitu accipiunt cum aqua oleo aut vnguento permixtis incomprehensibiles fiant inuisibiles supernis potestatibus principatibus Heracleonites who tooke vpon them in the like sort by anointing at the point of death to giue men expiation of their sinnes and to arme them against the aduersary powers He alleageth Saint Iames for the proofe of it whereas the vnction of which Saint Iames speaketh was the restoring of the party to health by c 1. Cor. 12.9 the gift of healing accordingly as is said of the Apostles d Mark 6.13 They anointed many that were sicke with oile and healed them But their vnction hath no intendment of healing being onely administred when no other is expected but certaine death Let them shew vs what warrant they haue to apply that to one end that was appointed to another It was a miraculous gift proper to that time and idlely should we retaine the signe when we haue no power to doe the thing Next he commeth to our praiers in derogation wherof considering their owne praiers he would haue bene ashamed to say any thing Our prayers and seruice more holie than the Papists but that it is a shame with them to bee ashamed Our praiers are so disposed as is most conuenient for publike order in the Church We pray in our owne tongue as the e 1. Cor. 14.15 Apostle teacheth vs that we may vnderstand what we pray Wee know that God respecteth not the length of our praiers but our deuotion and faith and therefore our praiers are many and short like those of f Aug. ep 121. cap. 10. Dicunterfratres in Aâ—gâ—pto crelâ—â—at quâ—dâ—m habere oralioâ— nâ—â— sed eas tamen â—â—uissimas 〈◊〉 quodammodo â—aculataâ—â—â—per productiores moras euanescat atque hebetetur intentio the Christian Moonkes in Egypt which Saint Austin mentioneth wherein were few words but abundance of spirit and these are intermingled with reading of the word of God in such sort as may best serue for the continuance of our intention and affection As for Popish praiers they are in a tongue which the people vnderstandeth not they sit present at them mute and brute they heare a sound but they know not whether hee that speaketh doe blesse or curse whether hee speake to God or the diuell and because they aske nothing of God they depart empty as they come Their Mattins their Euensong and other set houres they merit ex opere operato whether they haue deuotion or no deuotion God is beholding to them for their very paines They pray to Saints in stead of God and make them their Mediatours and haue more hope to preuaile by them than by the true Mediatour Iesus Christ Such praying wee are content indeede to leaue to their Priests and what they win thereby they shall haue our good will to weare Whereas he saith that our seruice is a mingle-mangle translated out of the old Portaise and Masse-booke he forgat to vse his words aright For the Portesse and the mass-Masse-booke are in truth the mingle-mangle wherin they haue packed together religion and superstition piety and idolatry and with the ancient seruice of the primitiue Church haue blended many absurdities and abominations of their owne deuice Therefore the composers of our Church seruice because they minded not to set vp a new Church but only to reforme the Church did take a course accordingly not to set foorth another Seruice but to reforme that that was and to expunge those corruptions which the abomination of desolation had brought into it They gathered the pearles out of the mucke whereinto they were throwen what was consonant to the word of God and agreeable to the example of the purest antiquity that they made choice of and haue translated it into our booke the other filth they left for swine that will needs so be to wallow in The performance of our Seruice I doubt not wanteth much of that deuotion and thankefulnesse which wee should yeeld to God who so graciously hath vouchsafed vs the light of his truth but yet ill doth it beseeme a cripple to vpbraide another with a lame leg Let Platina tell vs with what reuerence and deuotion diuine seruice is done in the Church of Rome g Plat. de vit Pont in Stephano 3. Nune adeò refrixit pietas religio non dico nudu pedibus sed caligati cothurnati vix supplicare dignantur Non Flent inter eundum vel dum satrificatur sed rident quidem impudenter de his etiam loquor quos purpura insigniores facit Non hymnos canunt id enim seruile videtur sed iocos fabulas ad risum concitandum inter se narrant Quid plura quò quis dicacior est petulantior eò maiorem in tam corruptis moribus laudem meretur seueros
seede of Abraham t cap. 9.28 We be Moses disciples u vers 41. We see x Ier. 8 8. We are wise and the law of the Lord is with vs y ca. 18.18 The law shall not perish from the Priest nor counsell from the wise nor the word from the Prophet and yet they persecuted Christ the sonne of God who only is the Truth How then may we now be assured that the Church of Rome is not the same to the church of Christ as they then were to Christ himselfe How may we poore creatures certainely vnderstand that those rich creatures are not subiect to error and mistaking as well as we Well if we will not beleeue it we may chuse but assurance M. Bishop can yeeld none He can tell vs a discourse what Christ said to Peter but that Christ euer spake either of Pope or Cardinall he can shew vs nothing And yet as if this matter were cleere he telleth vs of this church of theirs that whereas we are subiect to mistaking and errour God hath ordained and appointed the same to be a skilfull and faithfull mistresse and interpreter to assure vs both what is his word and what is the true meaning of it But againe we aske him where hath God so ordained and appointed in what Scripture hath he written it or by what words hath he expressed it that the church which he meaneth should bee our mistresse to tell vs what is Gods word what is the true meaning of it If he haue euidence authority for it let him shew it if he haue not what shall we thinke of him that dareth thus to bely the maiesty of God But if he considered the matter aright he would conceiue that those rich creatures of his haue no other or better meanes to assure what is Gods word and what is the meaning of it than other poore creatures haue By what touchstone they can make triall thereof by the same can we also as well as they Which comparison of the gold-smith and the touchstone which he himselfe vseth if it be rightly explicated serueth notably to set foorth the fraud and falshood of that church for which he pleadeth True it is that the church in this behalfe may rightly bee compared to the Goldsmith Now the Gold-smith for the discerning of true and perfect gold doth not take his owne fingers ends but goeth to the touch-stone and no otherwise can hee either make triall himselfe or giue assurance thereof to other men In like sort therefore the church which is the Gold-smith must vse a touch-stone for the assuring of that which it propoundeth to bee receiued and beleeued Now then whereas M. Bishop saith that we must rely vpon the churches declaration to be assured which bookes of Scripture be Canonicall I answer him that we cannot be assured thereof by the churches declaration vnlesse the church declare it and manifest it by the touch-stone The touch-stone whereby we are to take assurance heereof is the constant and perpetuall tradition and testimony of the former church And this testimony we first deriue from the church of the Iewes z Rom. 3.2 to whom the words of God were committed and to whose Scriptures a Luk. 24.44 the law and the Prophets and the Psalmes and to no other b Aug. cont Gaudent lib. 2. cap. 23. quibus dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis Christ himselfe hath giuen testimony as witnesses of himselfe reckoning them for c Luk. 24.27 all the Scriptures and wherof the Iewes in their dispersion giue acknowledgment vntill this day God so prouiding that d Aust in Psa 58. Per omnes gentes dispersi sunt ludaei testes iniquitatis suae veritatis nostrae ipsi habent codices de quibus prophetatus est Chrislus in Ps 56. Codicem portat Iudaeus vnde credat Christianus Christian faith should be prooued out of those bookes which are acknowledged for true by them that are enemies thereto This testimony the Christian church receiued of the Apostles and hath continued the same together with the acknowledgment of those other bookes of the new testament which by the Apostles and Euangelists were added to the former What bookes then haue had this generall and vndoubted auerment and witnesse of the church continued from time to time those and no other are to be holden for Canonicall bookes and this is the true touch-stone for trial of certaine and vndoubted scriptures By which touchstone the church of Rome is found to bee not a faithfull Mistresse but a false harlot bringing her bastards into the Church and forcing men to take them for lawfully begotten And whereas it is the tradition and declaration of the former church which hath beene from the beginning by which both they and we are to be instructed as touching the true bookes of Canonicall Scripture they force vpon vs the tradition of their owne church now deliuered vpon their owne word howsoeuer contrary to that which the church formerly hath declared If we follow the declaration of the ancient church then are no other bookes to be taken for Canonicall but what are now accknowledged and approoued in our Church the same onely being testified concerning the old testament by the Church of the Iewes concerning both new and old by the whole Christian church both the Greeke and Latine the Easterne and Westerne churches as e Of Traditions sect 17. before hath been declared But the church of Rome perceiuing the authorising of some other writings to be likely to gaine credit to some broken wares whence her thrift and gaine ariseth hath taken vpon her very presumptuously as a Mistresse or rather a goddesse to giue diuine authority to those bookes reiecting the testimony of that church which in this behalfe should bee mistresse both to her and vs. In a word whatsoeuer is to be attributed to the church in this respect it is idlely by M. Bishop referred to the church of Rome as if all other churches must rely vpon her declaration we our selues being able by the touchstone to make triall of true Scriptures as well as the church of Rome and therefore there being no cause why we should rely vpon them more than they vpon vs. And as vainely doth he apply to his purpose the saying of Saint Austin that he should not beleeue the Gospell except the authority of the church mooued him thereunto there being nothing therein meant but what may bee applied to the church England as well as to the church of Rome Saint Austin speaking generally of the vniuersall church thorowout the world without any maner speciall intendment of the church of Rome But how leudly they abuse those words of Austin wholly against his meaning and purpose I haue f Of Traditions sect 22. before sufficiently declared and neede not heere to repeat againe As for the churches declaration for vnderstanding the Scripture that is also to be tried and made
good by the touchstone because no exposition or sense of Scripture is to be admitted the doctrine whereof is not to be iustified by other Scripture and they that bring other senses and meanings do but deceiue men and leade them into errour as other heretikes formerly haue done and as the Papists now doe abusing the Scriptures to draw others after them into destruction Heereof also enough hath beene said g Of Traditions sect 21. before whereof I wish the Reader duely to consider for his satisfaction in this point That which he saith of other ancient Creeds and Confessions of faith that they containe not all points of Christian doctrine I eaily admit but yet let him vnderstand that it is a maine preiudice against them that neither any ancient Creed nor any exposition of the Creed or confession of faith conteineth sundry pointes which they now make to be matters of the meaning of the Creede Let him shew that euer any ancient Creed or expositour of the Creed did vnderstand or deliuer that the name of the Catholike church in the Creed hath any speciall reference to the Church of Rome that the Catholike church is to be defined as they now define it by being subiect to the bishop of Rome that the certaine declaration of the Canonicall bookes and of the true sense of Scripture is alwaies infallibly to be expected from the sentence of that Church that all Christians are fully to beleeue and wholly to relie vpon that Church for resolution of all points of faith necessarie to saluation Which and such other points made by them matters of the Creed because neuer any ancient writer hath found to be conteined or intended in the Creed therefore we iustly affirme them to be new Creed-makers coiners of new articles of faith and thereby peruerters and corrupters of the true Christian faith As concerning the Articles mentioned by M. Perkins now holden by the Romish Church that the Pope is Christs Vicar and head of the Catholike Church that there is a purgatorie fire after this life that images of God and of Saints are to be worshipped that praier is to be made to Saints departed and their intercession to bee required that there is a propitiatorie sacrifice daily offered in the Masse for the sinnes of quicke and dead M. Bishop answereth that the Fathers haue most plainly taught them in their writings and expresly condemned of heresie most of the contrary positions But what Fathers are they and in what writings haue they so done Surely if the Bishop of Rome in the ancient Church had beene taken to bee the Vicar of Christ and head of the Catholike church it cannot be but that we should haue very currant and frequent and memorable testimonie thereof as a matter vniuersally receiued and euery where practised But now let M. Bishop shew vs one let him shew so much as one that for diuers hundreds of yeeres after Christ did euer dreame of any such thing Which though indeed he cannot doe yet hee telleth vs of that and the rest that in those seuerall questions he hath before prooued what he saith whereas hee hath not spoken of any more of these points saue onely one and in that one point cannot be said to haue prooued any thing because whatsoeuer hee hath said standeth hitherto reprooued And surely if he haue no better proofes than hitherto he hath brought in all the questions that hee hath handled the Protestants will but scorne him as a very vnproouing disputer and aduise him to bestow his time a while longer in the Schooles to know what it is to prooue 3. W. BISHOP Touching beleeuing in the Church which he thrusteth in by the way we vse not that phrase as the very Creed sheweth following therein S. Augustine with others who hold that to beleeue in a thing is to make it our Creatour by giuing our whole heart vnto it in which sense we beleeue not in Saints nor in the Church albeit some other ancient Doctors take the words to beleeue in not so precisely but say that we may beleeue in the Church and in Saints that is beleeue certainly that the Catholike church is the onely true company of Christians and that to the lawfull gouernours thereof it appeâ—taineth to declare both which bookes be Canonicall and what is the true meaning of all doubtfull places in them so we beleeue the Saints in heauen to heare our prayers to be carefull to pray for vs and to bee able to obtaine by intreaty much at Gods hands in whose high fauour they liue Thus much in answer vnto that which M. PERKINS obiecteth in generall Now to that he saith in particular R. ABBOT a Greg. Nazia de sp sancto orat 6. Sâ—â—reatuÌ„ est quo pacto in ipsum eredimu c. Non enim idem est in aliquem credere de eo credere nam illud diuimt atis est hoc cuiusuis rei It is one thing saith Gregory Nazianzene to beleeue in any one another to beleeue of or concerning him the one belongeth to the Godhead the other is vsed of euery thing And heereby hee prooueth that the holy Ghost is God because wee beleeue in the holy Ghost By which argument our Sauiour Christ also teacheth vs to acknowledge him to be God when he saith b Ioh. 14.1 Yee beleeue in God beleeue also in me where c Hilar. de Trin. lib. 9. Vniens se fidei dei naturae eius vniuit c. deumse per id docens cum in eum credendum sit ab his qui in deum credant vniting himselfe to the beleefe of God saith Hilarie he vniteth himselfe also to his nature thereby teaching that he himselfe is God for that they who beleeue in God must beleeue in him I might further enlarge this point by the testimonies and expositions of d Aug. in Ioan. tract 29. de ciu dei l. 18. ca. 54. Euseb Emissen Ruffin Venant in symbol Apost Austin Eusebius Emissenus Ruffinus Venantius and others who all acknowledge that that phrase belongeth to God and is not to bee applied to any creature But it shall not neede because the Elucidatour of the Romane Catechisme according to the doctrine of the Catechisme it self as he pretendeth though quite contrary both to their doctrine and practise otherwise doth tell vs that e Elucidat Catech Roman c. 9. q. 5. Cùm dicimus nos credere in deum patrem in filium in sp sanctum phrasis haec loquendi significat nos ita credere deum patrem filium spiritu sanctuÌ„ vt etiam in eis omnem fiduciam nostram collocemus quam in deo solo non autem in creaturis ponere possumus ex quibus tamen ecclesia composita est when wee say wee beleeue in God the Father in the Sonne in the holy Ghost this phrase of speaking doth signifie that wee so beleeue God the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost as that also we place all
is sinne it being the vse and worke of our warfare a Heb. 12.4 to fight against sinne and the grace and power of God assisting vs whereby we ouercome sin He alleageth that S. Iames calleth it only temptation and then first sinne when it conceiueth and I answer him that S. Paul calleth it sinne before it be temptation b Rom. 7.8 sinne wrought all maner of concupiscence in me and therefore in temptation it is sinne See heereof the question of originall sinne handled at large before and of this place of S. Iames the sixt section 33. W. BISHOP Now to conclude this passage if you please to heare to what height of perfect obseruance of the Commandements the Euangelicall Preachers haue brought their followers in Germany vnto by teaching the Commandements to bee impossible and that onely faith iustifieth and that good works haue no reward in heauen and such like Iacobus Andreas a famous Lutheran shall enforme you De planetis who writeth thus That the whole world may see these men alienated from the Papacie and to put no confidence in works De Planetis therefore they doe no good worke at al. In stead of fasting they feast and are drunken day and night in lieu of Almes they oppresse and pill the poore they haue changed praying into cursing and blaspheming the name of God so prophanely that no Turkes nor Saracens commit the like impietie against Christ for humilitie there raigneth pride disdaine crueltie and riot in apparell c. and much more to the same purpose And that this truth may be confirmed by the testimony of two sound witnesses Musculus a man of no smal account among them thus reporteth of his brethren in the Lord. De prophetia Christi Such now adaies is the condition of the Lutherans that if any man list to behold a great number of Knaues robbers malitious persons coseners vsurers and such like deceiuers let him but enter into a Citie where the Gospel is taught and there he shall finde good store of them and a little after Surely it is true that among Heathens Iewes Turkes and other Infidels none can bee found more vnruly and that lesse esteeme of honesty and vertue than the Euangelicall brethren with whom all things passe currant and nothing almost is blamed except vertue For the diuell hath shaken off all their bands and turned them loose R. ABBOT And what M. Bishop are there not thinke you The vertuous conuersation of Papists as many knaues in Rome as in any city of the Lutherans What are there no Minions Courtisans there that serue for the vse of the Pope his Cardinals Did you not remember what was said of Rome by one of your owne Poets Viuere qui sanctè cupitis discedite Roma Depart from Rome all yee whose care is to liue holily Did you not consider that it was easie for vs to retort your words to your selues and to say If you please to heare what good effects the Popish doctrine of iustification by works doth bring foorth looke to the Iesuits Catechisme to Watsons Quodlibets and to the rest of those bookes of the same argument written by Popish Priests concerning the Iesuits who are the Puritane-Papists and the verie quintessence of their religion and yet are there described to be no other but Epicures Atheists fornicatours Sodomites coseners traitours proud malitious contentious couetous and what not Now wee know that the Iesuites will say that you are as leaud and naught as you haue described them to be Like will to like and get you both together there is no such goodnesse in either of you as that you should take vpon you to question our goodnesse And if I should rippe vp this matter of your vertues to the full I should but cause a lothsome and filthie stinke troublesome both to my selfe and to the Reader Therefore I rest my selfe with that answer that I haue a Sect. 15. and of satisfaction sect 19. before giuen vpon the like occasion Onely I must note it for one of M. Bishops Sycophants tricks that hee reckoneth it amongst our doctrines that good works haue no reward in heauen 34. W. BISHOP Hauing done with the Creed and ten Commandements we must now come to our Lords praier Master PER. beginneth with it thus The Lords Praier is a most absolute forme of praier now in this wee are taught to direct our praiers to God alone Our father c. and that onely in the name and mediation of Christ for God is our father onely by Christ therefore to vse any mediation of Saints is needlesse Ans We allow our Lords praier to be a most perfect forme of praier yet hold that many other sort of praiers may be made vnto God very acceptably as sundry other praiers vsed by Christ and set downe in the Gospell doe teach vs and therefore to argue that because one praier of Christs making is directed to God that no other may bee made to any Saint is very childish Wee gather praier to Saints out of S. Pauls requesting the Romans and Corinthians and others to pray for him and out of the mediation of the woman of Cananea to Christ for her daughter and the Disciples speaking to Christ for her with such like both out of the old and new Testament For if it had been either needlesse or bootlesse to haue praied vnto God any otherwise than in the name and by the mediation of Christ then S. Paul would not haue requested the helpe of mortall mens praiers to God for him and if poore sinners praiers may helpe vs much more may the intercession of the glorious Saints do who are in far greater fauor with God See the question of intercession of Saints Againe if that only forme of praier were to be vsed neither were it lawfull to pray to Christ himselfe neither could it bee prooued thereby that we should praie in Christs name For there is no expresse mention of Christs name neither any petition for Christs sake For God may bee truely called our Father in that he immediately createth and giueth vs our soules which is more than our bodies that we receiue from our carnall fathers R. ABBOT If the Lords praier be a most perfect forme of praier The Lords praier excludeth praier to Saints as M. Bishop alloweth it to bee then are we perfectly thereby directed both to whom and for what we are to praie It cannot bee called a most perfect forme of praier wherein there is any want of either of these things To adde any thing to that that is perfect is to denie the perfection of it and to take away any thing from it is to make it maimed and vnperfect Seeing then by the most perfect forme of praier we are instructed to pray no otherwise but to God onely it followeth necessarily that praier to Saints is vnlawfull because it is exorbitant from that most perfect forme M. Bishops exception heereto is
haue need to haue remission eucry day Now the collection against M. Bishop is pregnant and cleere for if to aske forgiuenesse of the sinne be to aske release of the punishment then it followeth that our petition being granted there is no remainder of punishment after the forgiuenes of the sin The ground of this collection he himselfe approoueth saying When wee in our Lords praier craue pardon of our debts we confesse that we are in his debt and that there is paiment of punishment due vnto vs the remission whereof we then require If then we here require the remission of punishment I aske him do we not require theremission of eternall punishment What haue wee the remission of eternall punishment without asking or praying for it Doth Christ teach vs to begge the forgiuenesse of temporall punishment and not of eternall Tell vs your minde plainly M. Bishop doe not glosse the matter with a false application of M. Perkins words A man committeth mortall sinne and thereby incurreth eternall punishment Hee commeth to God and humbleth himselfe and saith as Christ hath taught him forgiue vs our trespasses Doth he not heereby craue of God for Christs sake the release of of that punishment If he say no hee is more absurd than that Christiā eares wil giue him the hearing If he say yea he is confounded in the cause because it must then needs be granted that the hearing of our praier is the relaxation both of temporall and eternall punishment of temporall by his owne confession of eternall by a truth which hee must confesse whether he will or no. Their opinion therefore is not strengthened as hee vainly pretendeth but is plainly ouerthrowen by the true and necessarie construction of this petition 39. W. BISHOP The fourth point of our doctrine hence impugned by M. PER. is that a man in this life may fulfill the law Whereas in this place euery seruant of God is taught to aske daily pardon for the breach of the law answer is made that our daily sins are veniall and not against the law though besides the law but this which they say is against this petition for a debt that commeth by forfeiture is against the band or obligation Now euery sinne is a debt causing the forfeiture of punishment and therefore is not beside but against the law Answ I grant that euery sinne is a debt causing the forfeiture of punishment but this punishment may bee small and short and so the sinne veniall and the debt not against the law directly yet against the band of some morall duty as the misspending of time vsing of some idle words and the committing of such like light faults which I am bound in reason to auoid but not by any prescript law directly And thus in fine we see how foulely M. PER. was mistaken that thought to ouerthrow foure points of our doctrine at a clap when not so much as one is thereby any whit at all stirred R. ABBOT It will be well for M. Bishop that misspending of time and vsing of idle words be reckoned for veniall sinnes for God knoweth he hath misspent a great deale of time in the writing of these books and hath sent vs a number of idle words Tush saith he the sinne is but veniall and the punishment but small and short for such light faults But if it be a point of godly a Ephe. 5.16 wisedome to redeeme the time as S. Paul teacheth surely it is a point of folly to esteem so lightly of misspending time and hee will not so easily swallow idle words that regardeth what our Sauiour saith that b Mat. 12.36 No man liueth without breach of Gods law of euery idle word that men shall speake they shall giue account at the day of iudgement To come to the matter M. Perkins reason is very good There can be no forfaiture without breach of the condition of a bond Euery sinne is a forfeiture Therefore euery sinne is a breach of the condition of a bond The obligation or bond here is the law of God Seing then euery sinne and therefore euery veniall sinne maketh a man subiect to a forfeiture of punishment it must needs be that euery veniall sinne must be holden to bee a breach of the law of God And because no man can liue without daily committing veniall sinnes therefore it followeth that no man can liue without daily breach of the law of God I dispute not heere whether sinne be rightly called veniall in his sense or not I aime at the point that because no man by their confession can liue without venial finnes for which he daily saith forgiue vs our trespasses and euery veniall sinne is a breach of the law of God therefore no man can liue without daily breach of Gods law and therefore that no man in this life doth fulfill the law But well fare a schoole-tricke yet that shall put this argument quite out forsooth there is a twofold bond whence the forfeiture ariseth One is the law of God and veniall sinnes he telleth vs are not against the law directly wee are not bound to auoid them by any prescript law directly Thus faintly and fearefully he speaketh his owne conscience telleth him that they are against the law of God but being loth to confesse the truth which thus notwithstanding reigneth ouer him he minceth the matter with directly and indirectly But if the curse of God which is the penaltie of the law doe light vpon him for these sinnes what shall it boote him to say that he did but indirectly runne into it Well they are not directly against the law but against what are they directly They are saith hee against the bond of some morall dutie and we are bound in reason to auoid them Heere is then the other obligation or bond the bond of reason the bond of morall duty But is there any bond of morall dutie but only the law of God and doth not the law perfectly determine all morall duty or doth the reason of man find it selfe otherwise bound than by the conscience of the law Surely S. Paul saith c Rom. 7.7 I knew not sinne but by the law and hath M. Bishop a way to know sinne otherwise than by the law S. Paul saith d Rom. 4.15 Where there is no law there is no transgression and shall we beleeue M. Bishop that there is transgression where there is no law e August de pecc meritis remiss l. 2. c. 16. Quomodo non vetatur per iustitiam si peccatum est Neque peccatum erit siquid erit si non diuinitus iubeatur vt non sit How should it not be forbidden by righteousnesse saith S. Austin if it be sin and that that is sinne saith he shall be no sinne if God doe not forbid the being of it Doth God forbid all sinne or else it is no sinne and yet is there some sinne that is not against the law of God Well let vs leaue M.
in it euen as the badde may not abide it R. ABBOT The Protestants doe so well indure to heare the words of Gods spirit as that they haue made speciall choise therof as the principall weapon wherewith to fight against the superstitions and abominations of the Papists Whose absurd dotage as many other waies so in their Aue-Marie most notably appeareth in that of a salutation to the virgin Marie being present they haue made an inuocation of her being absent and thinke it a matter of great merit and deuotion to vse it like a charme by saying it ouer thus or thus many times at once which the Angell spake but once M. Bishop allegeth for it the old Catechismes but he neither telleth vs what Catechismes he meaneth nor how old they are which if he had we should easily haue descried the vanity of his speech For if by old Catechismes he meane as he should the Catechismes of the ancient fathers and primitiue Church he is therein found a liar because in those Catechismes there is nothing of it But if by old Catechisms he meane any that haue beene of latter times vnder the darknesse of Popery he abuseth his Reader who in case of Religion looketh for satisfaction euen from the first age because what was not then a part of religion can be no part of religion now the truth of Christ being one and the same from the beginning and for euer The words he saith are the words of the holy ghost and so say we but we say that the words of the holy ghost may be abused as here they are against the purpose and meaning of the holy Ghost They are the words of the holy Ghost which Christ vsed to the Apostles a Luk. 24.25 Fooles and slow of heart to beleeue all that the Prophets haue spoken and will M. Bishop therfore say that we may vse those words for inuocation of the Apostles He allegeth againe that it is prophecied that all generations should call the virgin Mary blessed and we deny it not but we may call her blessed in the meditations of our own hearts and in speaking of her to them that heare vs though we speake not idlely as to her that heareth vs not Be it that the words were composed by the Archangell penned by the Euangelists commended to the reading of all good Christians as other words of scriptures are be it that the sense of them is most comfortable vnto vs yet what is all this to prooue that these words are to bee vsed for a deuotion and seruice to the virgin Mary specially in such sort as Popery hath vsed them in a strange and vnknowen tongue which could yeeld no comfort of the sense nor remembrance thereby of the incarnation of Christ nor perfourmance of thanksgiuing or congratulation towards God That purest antiquity which he allegeth is but corrupt nouelty and leud forgery The Liturgies of Basill and Chrysostome are very falsly so termed and yet in Basils Liturgie there is no mention of the Aue-Mary Of Chrysostomes Liturgie there are so many different copies published one by Leo Tuscus another by Erasmus another by Pelargus who also testifieth that hee hath seen a fourth as that if Chrysostome did leaue any yet no man is able to say of any of them that this is it The sermon of Athanasius in Euangel de Deipara is by b Nann epist nuncupatoria praefixa oper Athanasij In tertiam classem relegaui omnes supposititios libros quos Athanasij non puto Nannius their own translatour put amongst the ranke of bastards and counterfets The name of Deipara was not so famous in the time of Athanasius as to be prefixed in the title of a sermon neither could it haue wanted memorable testimony in the councell of Ephesus if it had been then knowen for his Ephrems works as c Hieron in Catalog script ecclesiast Multa syro sermone composuit Hierome saith were written in the Syrian tongue If M. Bishop can shew them in the same tongue yea or ancientlie translated into the Greeketongue we can giue the better credit that they are his indeed Otherwise we know that they haue been in hucksters handling neither can we but be suspicious of that iugling and foisting which we finde to haue been so vsuall and common with them And if M. Bishop will haue vs to take it for Ephrems worke let him tell vs who is the translatour of it Gerardus Vossius who translated and published the works of Ephrem by the warrant of Pope Sixtus the fift whereas he putteth his name to so many as hee translated putteth no name to the Sermon which M. Bishop citeth shewing thereby that it is not in Greeke and therefore importing it to be a counterfeit He saith that these can with no more reason be denied to be theirs then the rest of their works But I answer him that though there were no other reason yet it is sufficient reason for vs to bee suspicious of these because in them some things are set downe whereof in the rest of their vndoubted workes and in the infinite volumnes of antiquitie which are approoued and acknowledged there is no token to be found As for Bernand he liued in latter times of great apostasie and corruption In that truth which he reteined he is a good witnesse for vs against them but hee can be no witnesse for them to make good those corruptions which hee drew from the time wherein he liued And yet neither is his testimonie cited out of any of his owne works but from another I know not whom and therefore is the lesse to be regarded to say nothing that the speech is ridiculous and fond for why should wee imagine that the Angels triumph and the heauens congratulate that the earth leapeth for ioy and hell trembleth at the deuout saying of the Aue-Mary more then when wee say deuoutly Our Father which art in heauen c Surely good Christians will reiect such absurd dotages and idle dreames though with bad Christians al is fish that commeth to net and what custome offereth they are readie to entertaine neuer regarding to consult with the word of Christ for warrant of that they doe 47. W. BISHOP Now let vs come to the last part of the Catechisme which is of the Sacraments where M. PER. doth briefly repeat his arguments vsed before against the reall presence I might therefore send the Reader vnto the first Chapter of this booke for the answer but because the matter is of great importance I will heere againe giue them a short answer First saith hee the reall presence is ouerthrowne out of these words hee tooke bread and brake it ergo that which Christ tooke was not his bodie c. A simple ouerthrow Christ indeed tooke and brake bread but presently after blessing it made it his body by these words this is my bodie R. ABBOT I might send the Reader saith M. Bishop vnto the first chapter of this booke for the
there be more in my booke saith he than you somtimes would haue people to beleeue they that haue a good opinion of it may hap to thinke that those graue and wise men in high authority foresaw that it would hardly be answered by laying nakedly testimony to testimony and reason to reason wherefore they thought it best policy to make choice of som iolly smooth-tongued discourser that might with a ruffling multitude of faire pleasing words cary his Reader from the matter Thus he is all marrow and pith a terrible man our graue wise men in high authority were afraid of him they were put to their shifts to haue his booke answered as for me I am no body all words and no woorth a man of too little substance to encounter with the profound learning of so great a Clerke I doe him heere a double fauour both that I traduce not his foolery as it deserueth and that I forbeare to giue him a ierke for so leaudly demeaning himselfe towards those graue wise men in high authority But what he is and what I am is not to be determined by him or mee God and the Country must trie vs both only this I doe not doubt that my writings vnlearned as they are haue set a dagger at his heart which he shall neuer be able to pull away It appeareth by this Preface that hee hath heard somewhat thereof that pleaseth him not whereupon he is growen so furiated and enraged as that he spitteth nothing but poison and straineth himselfe to the vttermost to disgrace that which he seeth to be so disgracefull to himselfe But he is heerein but as the dogge which gnaweth the stone which causeth paine to his owne teeth but to the stone can doe no harme at all And heere it troubleth him that to his Epistle being but one sheet and a halfe I should write so long an answer of thirty sheetes but I answer him that in the seruice of my Prince and in a busines of that nature I was not to huddle vp any thing but to vnfold and lay open all things that the truth might the more fully and plainly appeare I doe not wonder that he would haue had me more briefe because therby his vnhonest and shamefull dealing should haue beene the lesse seene In a word I wrot as the ancient fathers of the Church haue beene wont to doe not to serue the humour of Heretickes and enemies but as might best make for the satisfaction and edification of Gods Church 5. Another quarrell he hath concerning my sharpe and bitter words disgracefull and odious termes and bitter railing as he speaketh against the best men of their side As touching the persons I must tell him that the best of their side are very bad if they be no better than those of whom I haue spoken As touching the words I will not iustifie my selfe but that in a iust and righteous cause humane affection may carry me somewhat too far in heat but yet I must aduertise M. Bishop that there is a difference to be made betwixt words spoken by way of priuate anger and reuenge and those that are spoken by way of iust reproofe By way of iust reproofe Esay saith to wicked men q Esay 57.3 Ye witches children ye seed of the adulterer and of the whoore By way of iust reproofe Iohn Baptist said to the Pharisees and Sadduces r Mat. 3.7 O generations of vipers who hath forewarned you to flie from the wrath to come In like sort doth our Sauiour Christ bitterly reproch the Scribes and Pharisees calling them Å¿ Mat. 12.34 generations of vipers t Mat. 16.4 a wicked and adulterous generation u Mat. 23.13.16.17.26 Hypocrites blind guides fooles and blind blind Pharisees and in extreame passion saith x Ver. 33. Ye serpents Ye generations of vipers how should ye escape the damnation of hel So doth Steuen speake to the Iewes y Act. 7.51 Ye stifnecked and of vncircumcised hearts and eares And Paul to Ananias z Act. 23.3 God shall smite thee thou painted wall The words then are not alwaies faulty but the occasion thereof is alwaies to be regarded and the occasion thereof must be taken to depend much vpon the condition of the persons For where men are in any sort tractable and do not wilfully oppose themselues against instruction the Apostle prescribeth that rule alleaged by M. Bishop a 2. Tim. 2.24 The seruant of the Lord must not striue but must be gentle towards all apt to teach instructing with meekenesse them that are contrary minded But where men absurdly and wilfully resist the truth and doe leaudly seeke to draw others to be partakers with them in their sin there the Apostles example sometimes taketh place who when he saw Elymas the sorcerer labouring to turne away Sergius Paulus the Romane Deputy from the faith brast out with great indignation and said b Acts 13.10 O full of all subtilty mischiefe thou child of the diuel enemy of all righteousnes wilt thou not cease to peruert the straight waies of the Lord Now therefore albeit I doe not in any sort compare my selfe in measure of grace with those excellent seruants of God as M. Bishop to make himselfe worke full simply cauelleth yet according to that measure of the same spirit which God hath giuen me let no man maruell that I haue beene deeply mooued in heart to see these vassals of Antichrist by trocherous calumniations of true religion to offer so great indignity to the Anointed of the Lord and therefore haue somewhat dipped my pen in gall to exagitate their hypocrisie and iniquity in such sort as to me it seemed the cause it selfe did require Neither will I for that cause be a foule mouthed wrangler as M. Bishop hath stiled me but an earnest Aduocate of Gods truth c Iude vers 3. vehemently contending as the Apostle Iude exhorteth for the maintenance of the faith which was once giuen to the Saints caried with zeale and indignation towards malicious and wicked hypocrits who hauing prostituted their owne soules to the fornications of the whore of Babylon seeke perfidiously to entangle the consciences of others in the fellowship of their vngodly courses and in a word so far from wrangling and hauing with so sound reason and proofe repulsed the cauillations and Sycophancies of his epistle as that after three yeeres he can say nothing for iustification of his motiues which he tendered to the King but shiftingly abuseth the world by a meere collusion enlarging a booke out of some matters of discourse and making a miserable answer onely to some few sentences alledged against him without the compasse of that that he had written But it is not to be omitted in this behalfe what M. Bishop himselfe euen heere saith d Pag. 4. I wot well saith he that the most milde sweet pen-men are sometimes through zeale of the truth or by the ouerthwart dealing of their
aduersary moued to let slip now and then a word or two Yea and let it be noted how one sweet pen-man in this case excuseth another M. Bishop his fellow Watson after that he had with all importunity and fury thorowout his whole booke of Quodlibets runne vpon the Iesuits e Answer to particulars against D. Bishop pag. 17. Sory I am saith he that to some blemish of his former vertues certaine bookes set out of late carry the letters of his name because the stile seemeth too sharp and some thing in them soundeth harshly in Catholike eares But to mitigate the matter the occasion of writing which time and place ministred must be duely considered and withall how he and others were before grieuously hurt in their reputation by the other party and that in defense of their honour they might lawfully discredit the iniurious aggressours Now if any man looke vpon me with the same eies wherewith M. Bishop looked vpon M. Watson he will easily see that the reputation and honour of our religion being so deeply touched and so many infamous aspersions being cast vpon our whole doctrine and ministery by his malicious and slanderous libell the zeale of truth and importunate impudencie of such an iniurious aggressour must needs wrest from me what spleene or passion I had to shew in the seruice of my Prince and in the cause of Iesus Christ And this I hope shall excuse me in this behalfe with all that are friends and welwillers to the cause in hand or if any take exception further I must say to him with the words of S. Bernard f Bern. in Cant. serm 12. Inhumanè corum redarguis opera quorum onera refugis temerariè obiurgat rirum de praelio reuertentem mulier nens in domo Thou dealest vngently to blame the doings of them whose burdens thou refusest it is rashnesse for the woman that sitteth spinning in the house to checke the souldier returning from the warre g Hieron Apolog ad Pammach Delicata doctrina est pugnanti ictus dictare de muro It is a daintie kinde of teaching saith Hierome to sit vpon the wall and to appoint the man in fight in what maner he shall strike Consider that thou art but as a beholder and looker on but I was as hee that felt the blowes and therefore do not maruell if I were more moued than thou yea esteeme of me in this businesse by the experience of thine owne affections in that that toucheth thine owne cause But I must needs heere intreate thee gentle Reader by the way to note how this sweet peÌ„-man carieth himselfe in that kind wherein he obiecteth so great fault to me The flowers of his speech are h Preface to his second part sect 10. Of the same accursed crue was Melancthon Caluin in his institutions to hell i Reproofe Pag. 50. craking impudencie and impudent craking k Pag. 64. a vaine craking iangler and notorious liar l Pag. 211. deuoid of all good conscience honest dealing m Pag. 264 past all shame and worthy to be thrust into an Asses skin n Pag. 272. base and bastardly minded Ministers o Pag. 283. cosening companions false hypocrites most impudent liars p Pag. 281. the spirit that possesseth his heart to wit the father of all lies q Pag. 283. he that will be fed with lies let him take the diuell to his father and M. Abbot or some other such like of his lying Ministers to be his master Nay the terme of lying is nothing euery where and it is wonderfull to see what a rare dexterity he hath to multiply lies vpon me as for example fiue lies in a place where indeed there is no lie r Reproofe Pag. 83. A lie it is saith he that I denied to his Maiesty such authority as would serue for the taking order how God might be rightly serued in his Realm whereas my words are that he denieth to his Maiesty that supreme gouernment in causes ecclesiasticall whereby he should take vpon him so to doe which he so far denieth as that against this Å¿ Pag. 170. 171. c. Supremacy he hath said more than of any one matter thorowout his whole booke What authority he dreameth would otherwise serue so to do that to me is nothing Another lie it is saith he that the Popes lawes doe inhibit Princes to meddle with matters of religion whereas the law is plaine t Dist 96. Si imperator Ad Sacerdotes deus voluit quae ecclesiae disponen da sunt pertinere c. Non publicis legibus non a potestatibus seculi sed a Pontificibus sacerdotibus opus deus Christianae religionis voluit ordinari c. The ordering of matters for the Church God would haue to belong to Priests not to the secular powers not by publike lawes not by secular powers but by Popes and Priests would God haue the worke of Christian religion to be ordered u Sext. de haeret Quicunque Inhibemus ne cuiquam laica personae liceat publicè vel priuatim de fide Catholica disputare Qui contra fecerit excoÌ„municationis laqueo innodetur We forbid any lay person either publikely or priuately to dispute or reason concerning the Catholike faith he that doth so let him be excommunicated Againe he saith A third lie it is that I affirmed Kings to hold their crownes immediatly from God but that his foolery may the better appeare he adeth Which though it be true in that sense he taketh it yet it is false that I said so in that place for I meddle not with those termes of immediatly or mediatly So then he saith so but yet I lie in saying that he saith so because he saith not so in that place whereas notwithstanding I neither charge him with mediatly nor immediatly in that place but onely repeat his owne former words that of Gods meere grace and bounty Princes receiue and hold their diadems and princely scepters Yet againe The fourth lie is that the Pope denieth Princes to hold their Diadems and Princely authority immediatly from God but are to receiue them by his mediation whereas the Pope himselfe saith of the Emperour x Auent Annal lib. 6. Imper ator quod habet totum habet a nobis Ecce in potestate nostra est imperium vt deâ—â—us iâ—ud cui volumus propterea constituti à deo super gentes regna vt destruamus euellamus edificemus plantemus c. Ex epist Adriani 4. What he hath he hath it wholly of vs the Empire is in our power to giue it to whom we will being therefore appointed of God ouer nations and Kingdomes to destroy and to pull vp to build and to plant Which words I alledged vsed by y Bull a Pij 5. apud Sander de schism Anglic. Pius Quintus against Queene Elizabeth and applied generally to that purpose by the z Extrauag de maior
man should answer him in this sort The thing that he reporteth is indeed a very lie and a tale meerely deuised by themselues but yet it goeth for a tradition at Rome and he will heereupon haue it to be beleeued But that which Holinshed setteth downe is a matter of record extant and to be seene in the ancient u Inter leges S. Edwardi cap. 17. Lambert de priscis Anglor legib lawes of our land and therefore hath testimony sufficient to mooue vs to giue credit vnto it And that the matter might not rest vpon the silly poore credit as he speaketh of Holinshed onely of whom notwithstanding I may assure any man that he was a man of much more fidelity and honesty than M. Bishop is I cited also Stow as a witnesse thereof a man knowen to haue beene too well affected to the Romish religion so as that for his partiality that way hee is commonly alledged by themselues as a most authenticke authour specially by Parsons in his three Conuersions of purpose by him to thwart M. Fox the vttermost he can and therefore of whom M. Bishop cannot doubt but that he found it in good record x In lib. Constâ—â— tut London as he professeth to haue done or else he would haue made no such mention of it Now what might be the cause that he could heere see Holinshed and could not see Stow but that he desireth to make some shew of exception where notwithstanding he himselfe knoweth that iustly he can take none 7. Now we see that Stow for countries sake findeth more fauour with him than Polydore Virgil whom I cited as testifying Siricius Bishop of Rome to be y Answer to the epistle sect 8. pag. 60. a noueller in forbidding the mariage of Priests and he saith that I prooue it by the worshipfull verdict of Polydore Virgil Surely Polydore Virgil was no Protestant he was a writer of their own and deserued well of them a man of great learning and knowledge of history one that would write nothing in fauour of vs and therefore his verdict in reason and equity should be strong for vs. Yea that which he wrot he wrot by the warrant z Polyd. Virgil de inuent rer lib. 5. cap. 4. Siricius primus sacerdotibus diaconis vt ait Gratianus dist 82. coniugio interdixit of Gratian the Collectour of the Decrees the founder of their Canon Law and saith no more than the receiued Glosse of the Canon Law mentioneth as a thing commonly receiued a Dist 84. Cum in praeterit in glossa Dicunt quòd olim sacerdotes pâ—terant contrahere antâ— Siricium Men say that of old before the time of Siricius Priests might marry Being then a man of so good worth and speaking vpon so good ground doth M. Bishop with the flout of a worshipful verdict thus scornfully turne him off But it is nothing with him thus to spurne at their owne writers when they stand in his way and therefore telleth vs afterwards that Matthew Paris the Monke who wrot three hundred yeares ago b Reproofe Pag. 2â—9 did ignorantly and saucily reprehend Gregory the seuenth for forbidding men to be present at the Masses of maried Priests whereas c Matth. Paris in Willielm 1. ex Chronico Sigeberti anno dom 1074. Matthew wrot the conceit and opinion of many that liued in that time and borrowed the same from Sigebert the Monke that liued before him 8. I come at length to examine how in the processe he maketh good that horrible crimination which he hath expressed in the title of his booke of my abusing mangling misapplying falsifying both scriptures and fathers Now whereas a man in the entrance of this accusation would expect some great and waighty matter which might worke some impression in the Reader the more strongly to apprehend the rest that followeth see how coldly hee beginneth for want of better matter with a ridiculous and childish cauill that by the very beginning it may be conceiued how idlely he carrieth himselfe in his whole discourse In my Epistle d Epist dedicat to the Answer to D. Bishops epistle to the Kings Maiesty I noted the necessary vse of the course intended by his Highnesse as touching the answering of the dedications and supplications of these Popish Proctours for the discouering of the impudency of the petitioners for the gaining of such as may be gained to the acknowledgment of Gods truth and that as Saint Bernard saith though the heretike arise not from his filth yet the Church may be confirmed by the faith From these words he taketh his example of my misapplying the sentences of the fathers because Bernard meant not thereby e Pag 7. to disswade any man from the Romane faith and doth in that discourse describe those heretikes to be such as denied Purgatory and praier for the dead and inuocation of Saints c. Where I pray thee first to obserue that the words by me alledged import only a phrase of speech no sentence or argument for proofe They serue fitly to signifie the thing by me intended but for any waight they haue one way or other it had beene all one to haue set them downe as mine owne words without adding Bernards name And who knoweth it not to be a thing vsuall to borrow the phrases and speeches of Poets Oratours Philosophers yea of heretikes of schismatikes of Apocryphall bookes or writings without respect what they meant that spake them so long as they fitly expresse the minde of him that vseth them Bernard meant not by those words to disswade men from the Romane religion no more did Aratus the Poet meane to disswade men from Paganisme by those words f Acts 17.28 For we are also his generation the generation of God and yet Saint Paul vseth them to that purpose Neither did Menander by those words g 1. Cor. 15.33 Euill words corrupt good maners intend to reproue them that denied the resurrection of the dead which he himselfe beleeued not and yet the same Apostle forbeareth not to turne them that way and will M. Bishop enter an action against the Apostle for misapplying the Poets words Neither did Petilian the Donatist meane it well and yet who doubteth but that by his words it may be truly said h Apud Aug. cont lit Petil. lib. 2. cap. 8. Laqueo traditor perijt laqueum talibus dereliquit Iudas the traitour perished with a halter and to such as himselfe he left the halter Let M. Bishop take an example of this vsage from M. Higgons their late conuert who alleaging it to be said of him by the Apostles words i Gal. 5.7 He did run well who did let him that he did not obey the truth saith thereto thus k Motiues booke 2. in the preface Vnto these men I returne a louing a faithful and iust answer founded in the demand of an eminent professour of their Gospell Will you be any longer
led by them who thus grosly abuse you and noteth in the margent Doct. Abbot against Doct. Bishop part 2. in fine These words I vsed to withdraw M. Bishop from the Romish religion and yet M. Higgons thought that without offense he might take my words to serue him for an answer why he had now embraced the same presuming it to be the custome of all writers to take words euen out of the aduersaries mouth and to retort them vpon himselfe how ill he hath done it I will not heere say Now therefore in like sort though Saint Bernard had beene mine aduersary professedly writing against me yea though the words had beene M. Bishop words yet nothing could let but that thereby I might thus expresse the benefit of answering their bookes that to vse M. Bishops words though the heretike arise not from his filth yet the Church may be confirmed in the faith But the words as they are deliuered by Saint Bernard doe serue fully and directly to that purpose whereto I applied them He handleth that which is said in the Canticles l Cant. 2.15 Take vs the Foxes where by m Bernard in Cant. Ser. 64. Vulpes haereses vel potius haereticos ipsos intelligamus Capiantur non armis sed argumentis quibus refellantur errores corum ipsi verò si fieri potest reconcilientur Catholicae reuocentur ad veram fidem c. Homo de ecclesia exercitatus doctus si cum haeretico homine disputare aggreditur ille intentionem suam dirigere debet quatenus ita errantem conuincat vt conuertat c. Nec propterea sanè nihil se egisse putet qui haereticum vicit conuicit haereses confutauit verisimilia a vero clarè aperteque distinxit c. nam etsi haereticus non surrexit de faece tamen ecclesia confirmatur in fide Foxes hee vnderstandeth generally all heretikes which annoy and trouble the Church of God whom he will haue to be taken not with weapons but with arguments whereby to refute their errours that so they may be reconciled to the Catholike Church and recalled to true faith He saith that he that disputeth with an heretike should propound to himselfe to conuince his errour that so he may conuert him and thereupon to take away all obiection of losing his labour therein he addeth that though he will not be conuerted yet hee that hath conquered and conuicted him is not to thinke he hath done no good for though the heretike saith he arise not from his filth yet the Church is confirmed in the faith which is fully answerable to the drift of my speech where I vsed the same words What will he tell vs that he is not the heretike and therefore the words are misapplied But then I will deride his folly that chargeth me with misapplication onely vpon his owne conceit of the point in question He saith I am the heretike I say that he is so He saith it only but prooueth it not but he himselfe standeth by me conuicted of many hereticall positions and doctrines deliuered in his epistle and otherwise in his booke so as that he cannot finde how to trauerse the euidence thereof Yea but S. Bernard in that very place describeth those heretikes to be such as denied Purgatory and praier for the dead c. But M. Bishop therein saith vntruly for Bernard in that place speaketh of heretikes in general as I haue shewed and therfore leaueth his words to be applied to M. Bishop who doth patronise and defend so many wicked and damnable heresies True it is that in the two sermons following he speaketh particularly of some heretikes in his time and noteth them for some points by M. Bishop set down as namely Purgatory and praier for the dead but those matters he bringeth in a great way after in the end of the second Sermon and we doubt whether for those onely without greater cause he would haue noted them for heretikes in as much as Petrus Cluniacensis Bernards equall doth testifie as the Centurists haue obserued n Magdeburg Centur. 12. cap. 5. pag. 839. Petrus Cluniacensis ter in ea ipsa epistola fatetur Catholicos quosdam de sacrificijs orationibus pro defunctis dubitare that some Catholikes did then doubt of sacrifices and praiers for the dead and consequently of Purgatory which dependeth thereon He noteth them for other points wherein they are more like to the Papists than to vs as namely first that o Bernard in Cantic ser 65. Firmauerunt sibi sermonem nequam Iura periura secretum prodere noli c. Quod immobili iure sancitū est non peierandum scilicet hoc tanquam indifferens pro sua voluntate dispensant they dispensed with themselues to sweare and forsweare for the concealing of their owne secrets as now the Iesuites and Priests by their equiuocation and mentall reseruation teach their pupils to do They p Ibid. Contubernio faeminarū nemo inter eos qui careat c. Vxornè tua Non inquit nam voto meo istud non conuenit ser 66. In operimentum turpitudinis cōtinentiae se insigniere voto porrò turpitudinem in solis existimant vxoribus reputandam vowed continency but yet would not be without the company of women yea their vow of continency was but for the couering of their filthines thereby forbearing marriage as vncleane but in the meane time committing fornication as Popish Priests and Votaries are accustomed to doe q Ibid. Quidam dissentientes ab alijs inter solos virgines matrimonium contrahi posse fatentur Some of them permitted the first marriage but the second marriage they held vnlawfull and the Church of Rome now denieth to it their sacramentall benediction They also condemned the eating of flesh as a thing vncleane as the Maniches did they thought they might euery day at their owne tables consecrate for themselues the body and bloud of Christ they derided the baptising of infants which things with other like were such as might iustly moue S. Bernard to inueigh against them And these things hee spake as he was aduertised concerning them of whom hee spake but whether hee were truely aduertised it may bee doubted because he himselfe saith that not onely r Ser. 66. in fine Non solum laici principes sed quidam vt dicitur de Clero necno◠de ordine Episcoporum eos sustinent Princes of the laity but some also of the Clergy and of the Bishops were fauourers of them which it is not likely they would haue beene if they had beene men so ill conditioned as he reporteth them howsoeuer he vpon an vnlikely rale impute it to their taking bribes of them As for those matters which M. Bishop nameth it is no wonder that Bernard liuing in a time of so great corruption and declination of Christian faith were somewhat intangled in the superstitions of that time wonder it is rather that in the
when I saw M. Bishop thus confidently auouching that I belied them I thought vndoubtedly that euen for shame in their latter impressions they had altered those words neuer imagining that he would be so shamelesse as to charge me with belying them in a thing apparent to the sight of euery man Thus I meant in simplicity to haue passed it with referring the Reader to the old books though it were changed in the new But now I pray thee to doe the same that in the end for more assurance I thought good to doe Looke to their edition of the Canon Law printed at Paris Anno. Dom. 1601. and there thou shalt finde it still as I cited it i Extrauag Ioan. 22. cap. Cum inter in glossa Parisiis Anno dom 1601 Cum priuilegio Gregorij 13. aliorum principum Credere dominum Deum nostrum Papam sic non potuisse statuere c. haereticum censeretur To beleeue that our Lord God the Pope might not so decree should be accounted heresie Now whether shall we thinke heere to be more impudent the Pope or M. Bishop Surely the Popes sin is the greater who by k Optat. lib. 3. Passus est homines per se sie iurare tanquam per deum in quo si vnusquisque hominuÌ„ errauerat ipse prohibere debuerat cùm non prohibuit deus sibi visus est Optatus his argument because he doth not forbid this stile taketh vpon him to be our Lord God the Pope M. Bishop hath some grace to be ashamed of it but little grace hath he to deny that which is so open for euery man to see By the hardnesse of his forehead in this thou maiest take occasion to esteeme what hee is in all the rest 12. Againe he saith that it is l Answer to the Epistle sect 13. p. 119. a lie which I cite out of the Decretals that they say the Pope is not a meere man The words are m Decretal Greg. de translat episc Quantò Non puri hominis sed veri Dei vicem gerit in terris Where I doubted not but that by a phrase of speech often vsed where the word of double gouernement hath his proper signification onely in respect of the latter not of the former which it gouerneth the meaning is that he hath not the condition of a meere man but is the vicar of the true God And this meaning is elsewhere confirmed where it is said that n Sext. proaem inglossa Ostenditur per mutation mâ—nominis facta mutatio hominis cùm enim prâ—ùs esset purus homo nunc vicem veri deigeâ—it interris by the changing of the Popes name is imported the changing of the man for where he was before a meere man now he is Gods vicar vpon the earth leauing it to be vnderstood that therefore now he is not a meere man But yet because I knew they might make another construction of those words I would not thereupon rest the proofe of that that I said that the Canonists perswaded the Pope that he was not a meer man but added for that purpose their noble verse whereby they say to the Pope o Clement Prooem in glâ—ssa Nec deus es nec homo quasi neuterâ—es inter vtrunque Thou art neither God nor man but as it were a neuter or mungrell betwixt both euen as elsewhere it is said p Dist 96. Constantinus in glossa In hac parte Papa non est homo sed vicarius dei The Pope in this behalfe is not a man but the vicar of God Tell vs now M. Bishop did I lie or not or doe not you rather dally with your Reader in cauilling thus vainely at one place when you saw the thing that I said purposely iustified by another Surely you take a wrong course this is not the way to recouer the credit that you desire 13. His next quarrell is concerning a place of Beda I alledge out of him that q Answer to the epistle sect 31. pag. 199. in his time the Scriptures were in foure seueral languages of so many seueral nations in this Iland beside the Latin tongue common to them all thereout to search the knowledge of Gods truth This he saith is a lie also but to perswade his Reader that it is so he leaueth out the words wherein I conceiued the proofe to stand The words of Beda are these r Beda hist eccles gent. Anglor lib. 1 cap. 1. Haec in praesenti iuxtra numerum librorum quibus lex diâ—ina scripta est quinque gentium linguis vnam candemque summae veritatis verae sublimitatis scientiam scrutatur confitetur Anglorum videlicet Britonum Scotorum Pictorum Latinorum quae meditatione scirpturarum facta est omnium communis This Iland at this present according to the number of bookes wherein the Law of God is written doth in the languages of fiue Nations search and confesse one and the same knowledge of the highest truth and of true sublimity or height namely of the English the Britons the Scots the Picts and the Latines which by meditation of the Scriptures is become common to all the rest Where I confesse that in those words according to the number of bookes wherein the law of God is written I vnderstood Beda his meaning to be that they studied Gods truth according to the Canonical Scriptures which are contained in a certaine number of bookes not conceiuing such was then my dulnesse that it might be taken that as the Law of God is written by Moses in fiue bookes so this Iland in fiue languages did study and search the knowledge of Gods truth which in further waighing the words I since considered Now M. Bishop to shew his fidelity leaueth out those words imagining that the Reader might perhaps take my first meaning to be as likely as this latter These be S. Bedes wordes saith he This Iland at that time did study and confesse one and the same knowledge of truth of the highest truth he should haue said in fiue sundry languages But if he had meant honesty and plaine dealing he would not haue done thus he would haue set downe the words and left them to the consideration of the Reader that it might appeare what it was that might induce me to that that I affirmed thereupon Albeit setting those words aside I would aske him and he indeed should heere haue told vs how this Iland should in fiue languages study and search the knowledge of the highest truth if they had not in fiue languages the bookes of the highest truth Tell vs M. Bishop we desire to know of you and if you would needes answer the place you should haue declared it how they should study the highest truth without hauing the bookes of the highest truth And that they had so we cannot doubt because it was said by Theodorâ—tlong before Å¿ Theodoret. de enrand Graecor affectib lib. 5. Hebraici libri non
Pag. 12. answer to the second section of his Epistle I say thus p Bulla Pij 5. de Maior obed cap. Vnam sanctam Behold sayth the Pope we are set ouer nations and kingdomes to build vp and to plant to pull vp and to destroy c. and therefore what the wisdome of God saieth as M. Bishop alleageth q Prou. 8.15 By me Kings raigne the same the Pope blasphemously applieth r Ceremon eccles Rom. lib. 1. cap. 2. Ad sum mum pontificem Dâ—i vices gerentem in terris tanquoam ad eum per quem reges regnant c. to himselfe Per me reges regnant By me Kings raigne To prooue that the Pope saith that By him Kings raigne I alleaged his owne booke Sacrar ceremon eccl Rom. l. 1. c. 2. where it is expresly sayd that it is he by whom Kings doe reigne as I haue now set downe in his owne words euen as * supra sect 5. before I noted him saying of the Emperour By me he reigneth Now in setting downe my text in Å¿ Reproofe pag. 82. his booke hee quite leaueth out the citation and then telleth his Reader t Pag. 84. This is the fift lie that he makes within the compasse of lesse than halfe a side for albeit the Pope vse the words spoken to the Prophet Ieremy Ecce nos constituti sumus c. yet doth he not those by King Salomon vttered in the person of Gods wisdome which M. Abbot deceitfully shuffleth in But M. Bishop do I lie indeed What will you tell me that I lie and in the mean time suppresse the proofe whereby it should appeare that I doe not lie If I should thus deale I know what you would terme it and I could not but acknowledge it what it is in you let the world iudge I forbeare to giue it the right name Another prank he plaieth of as great honesty as this in putting in of words which are none of mine u Answer to the epistle sect 3. pag 19. Our faith therefore say I because it is that which the Apostles committed to writing is the Apostolike faith and our Church ex consanguinitate doctrinae by consanguinity and agreement of doctrine is procued to be an Apostolike church At the end of which words M. Bishop x Reptoofe pag. 103. in setting downe my text hath put in c. as if there were something els to come in than he hath expressed and in the rehearsing of them in his answer addeth these words y Pag. 114. And is the only true Catholike church as if I had said that our Church of England is the only true Catholike church and is proued by perfection of doctrine to be the only true Catholike church heereupon running vpon mee for saying the same which I reproued in the Donatists wheras the words against which hee fighteth are none of my words but are most leaudly and falsely thrust in by himselfe You tell me of tricks M. Bishop but if I had vsed such tricks as these and many other of yours I would be ashamed euer to set pen to paper again Remember what your selfe haue said z Reproofe pag. 283. The diuels cause it is that needeth to be bolstered out and vnderpropped with lies 26. Yet further gentle Reader to giue thee some small taste of his answers to the authorities by me alleged thou maiest first take knowledge of those words of Austin a Answer to the epistle sect 3. pag. 18. ex August cont lit Petilian l. 3. c 6 Siquis siue de Christo siue de eâ—us ecclesia siue de quaecunque re quae pertinet ad fidem vitamque nostram non dicam Nos c. sed si angelus de caelo vobis annunciauerit praeterquam quod in scripturis legalibus Euangelicis accepistis anathema sit If any man nay if an Angell from heauen shall preach vnto you concerning Christ or concerning his Church or concerning any thing pertaining to our faith and life but what ye haue receiued in the Scriptures of the Law and the Gospell accursed be he What saith M. Bishop heere b Reproofe pag. 112. To S. Austin I answer first that those are not his formall words which he citeth Is that all But if those be not his formall words why doth he not tell his Reader what his formall words are Surely if hee were a man formally honest he wold deale more materially than to mocke his Reader in this sort Well though he will not tell the formall words yet he expoundeth the meaning to be if any shall preach contrary to that that is written whereas S. Austin telleth vs that c August de Doct. Christ l. 2. c. 9. In ijs quae apertè in scriptura posita sunt inueniuntur illa omnia quae continent fidem moresque vinendi in those things which are plainely set downe in the Scripture are found all those things which conteine faith and conuersation of life and therefore meaneth not only if any preach contrary but as his words are if any preach any thing beside that that is written accursed be he 27. I alledged that S. Paul writing his epistle to the Romans d Answer to the epistle sect 4. pag. 24. ex Theodoret praefat in epist Pauli comprehended therein as Theodoret saith omnis generis doctrinam accuratam copiosamque dogmatum pertractationem doctrine of all sorts or all kind of doctrine and very exact and plentifull handling of the points thereof The first part of these words in Latin he leaueth out in my text and in his answer saith to it thus e Reproofe pag. 132. 133. That you may see how nothing can passe his fingers without some legerdemaine marke how he Englisheth Theodorets words Dogmatum pertractationem the handling of opinions is by him translated all points of doctrine whereas it rather signifieth some than all opinions or lessons But M. Bishop this dealing of yours is somewhat too grosse Mee thinkes you should seeke to be acquainted with some Aegyptians that you may learne of them somewhat more cunningly to shift and conueigh Thou seest gentle Reader that he hath dashed out Omnis generis Doctrinam all kinde of Doctrine wherein the force of the words consisteth and then saith that by legerdemaine I haue Englished Dogmatum pertractationem all points of Doctrine Doe not maruell that he doth so because he well perceiued that by these words of Theodoret his Reader should see that if the Apostle comprehended in that epistle all kinde of Doctrine then the doctrine of the church of Rome that now is cannot be the same that it was of old because they haue so many Doctrines now whereof there is nothing conteined in that epistle 28. I produce Agatho Bishop of Rome professing f Answer to the epist sect 4. pag. 29. duty of obedience to the Emperour Constantinus the fourth and taking vpon him obediently to performe what the said Emperour commanded Heare
condition of fraile and sinfull flesh Now because no part of this could be imported in that memoriall if it were a thankesgiuing for the Saints therefore whether M. Higgons will or not it must necessarily be taken to haue been a praier for them And heereof there is one argument more in the last part of the comparison when he saith of Christ that he is in heauen and of the Saints that they are in the earth by their bodies yet resting in the earth Where it hath some reason that they should say We pray for them as respecting that their bodies lie yet in the dust of the earth expecting a blessed and happy resurrection which we craue to bee reuealed vpon them but to say that they meant to giue thanks to God for that the bodies of the Saints lie buried in the earth it were senslesse and absurd And because it is confirmed vnto vs by the Ecclesiasticall Hierarchy that the Church did pray for the dead in respect of the resurrection therefore wee cannot doubt but that the memoriall heere spoken of by Epiphanius vsed for the Saints in respect of their bodies in the earth was a praier for them to wish their full and perfect consummation by the resurrection from the dead My former conclusion therefore hence deduced standeth good that sith the ancient Church thus praied for the Saints and Martyrs therefore that certaine it is they did not pray vnto them And because they thus praied for the Saints whose soules they were assured were in heauen therefore they praied for the dead without respect of Purgatory which now is made the onely ground and reason of praier for the dead 38. The next matter for which he questioneth me is concerning the opinion of the Greeke churches as touching Purgatory and prayer for the dead My words are such as might haue serued to weaken his motiue had hee not beene resolued without any motiue to remooue and run away What could he haue better to resolue him then that which I say that the Papists themselues confesse that Purgatory was not receiued or beleeued in the Greeke Churches and therefore that it is certaine that they had no respect of Purgatory in their praier for the dead I did not onely say that the Papists confesse it but I cited the places of their confession Alfonsus De Castro saith k Alfons De Castro adu haeres lib. 8. tit de Indulgent In antiquis scriptoribus de Purgatorio feré nulla mentio potissimum apud Graecos Scriptores quae de causa vsque in hodiernum diem purgatorium non est a Graecis creditum Of Purgatory there is in a maner no mention at all with the ancients but specially with the Greeke writers for which cause Purgatory is not beleeued of the Greekes vntill this day Yea not of the Greekes only but of the Armenians also he acknowledgeth that l Ibid lib. 12. de purgatorio vnus ex notissimis erroribus Graecorum Armeniorum est quo docent nullum esse Purgatorium c. they teach there is no Purgatory calling it an errour well knowen concerning them both The words of Roffensis their great and holy Martyr I cited out of Polydore Virgil m Polyd. Virg. de inuent rer lib. 8. cap. 1. ex Roffensi De Purgatorio apud priscos nulla vel quà m rarissima fiebat mentio sed Graecis ad hunc vsque diem non est creditum esse Of Purgatory there was none or very rare mention made amongst the ancient Fathers yea and with the Greekes it is not beleeued till this day Thus did they ingenuously acknowledge as the truth is and did it nothing stagger M. Higgons to finde this so plainly acknowledged Did it make him nothing doubt of his imagined mutuall dependance of Purgatory and praier for the dead Surely he was a very voluntary conuert or else he might easily haue seene that it is no good connexion to say They praied for the dead therefore they beleeued Purgatory but rather they beleeued not Purgatory therefore they praied not for the dead in any such meaning as the Papists now doe He might haue remembred that which I told Doct. Bishop that many amongst vs of custome and of humane affection of loue doe vse many times words of praier for the dead who notwithstanding from the bottome of their hearts doe vtterly defie both Purgatory and the Pope 39. In another place hee saith that it is n Book 1. part 2. cap. 3. ¶ 4. num 2. to our great disreputation that I name the Albigenses as professours of the same faith and religion which we now prefesse But why Forsooth he knoweth no cause himselfe but referreth his Reader to Parsons the Iesuit in his treatise of the three conuersions of England Yea M. Higgons would you make Parsons his narration a motiue of your recantation Would you giue heed to him whom you knew by the testimony of his owne fellows to be a man of Belial an infamous wretch a meere politizing Atheist and therefore likely if it were to serue his turne to deale with the stories of the ancient Christian Martyrs as he hath done with M. Foxes story carying himselfe in all that worke like a very Porphyrie or Iulian applauding himselfe and seeking to bee applauded in a iollity of forcing all things euen against the haire to scorne and mockery You say the Albigenses in their opinions followed the Waldenses as indeed they were the same some part of them onely being so called of the towne wherein they dwelt and would you beleeue Parsons concerning the opinions of the Waldenses who o Exam. of Fox his calen cap. 3. num 13. Of these Waldēses see at large Simon Goulart Catalog test veritatis lib. 15. Where thou shalt see how leaudly Parsons hath dealt with them disclaimeth Aeneas Syluius who was afterwards Bishop of Rome testifying their faith and doctrine vprightly and faithfully as of his owne knowledge that so he may giue way to other either carelesse or malicious reporters who impiously fathered vpon them strange paradoxes in no other sort than Friar p Edm. Campi decem rat cap. 8. passim Campian lately dealt with vs Yea and is not ashamed to cite q Three Conuers pag. 2. c. 10. num 29. Prateolus and Sanders for witnesses thereof whose ioy it hath been to finde out any thing were it neuer so vntrue which they might report opprobrious and disgracefull to them I doubt not but that the Waldenses and Albigenses might happily in some things be otherwise minded than we be and what are they in the church of Rome all in all things of one and the same minde but if wee respect the substance of their faith and doctrine as we may discerne the same not only by r Aeneas Sylu. de Origen Bohem cap. 35. Aeneas Syluius but also by ſ Alfons adu haeres passim Alfonsus De Castro and specially by t Sleidan Comment lib. 16.