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A45675 The Minster of Cirencester's address to the dissenters of his parish occasion'd by the death of their preacher : together with the answer that was made thereto and his reply to that answer : to which is prefixed a letter relating thereto from the Right Reverend Father in God Edward Lord Bishop of Gloucester. Harrison, Joseph. 1698 (1698) Wing H899; ESTC R28524 45,184 52

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strange Consequence then is this Corah Dathan and Abiram and their Company were all consum'd for murmuring and revelling against Moses and Aaron and therefore we shall be undone for obeying the Commandments of those God hath placed over us Certainly there is a more natural Inference to be drawn from this amazing Instance of God's Judgments upon disobedient Persons and were there not a strange Mist before your Eyes you could not but see it and make a more suitable Application of it ANSWER Sir give me leave to tell you that whatsoever is placed in God's Worship without the Command of God is an Idol for none hath Power to Ordain or Place a Ceremony in Christ's Church but himself who is King of it A clear Proof you have Numb 15.30 And it shall be unto you for a Fringe that you may look upon it and remember all the Commandments of the Lord and do them and that you seek not after your own Heart and your own Eyes after which you used to go a whoring REPLY I believe never poor Man undertook such a Task as I have done to Answer so much Impertinence But since I have begun I must have Patience and that will carry me through it all He would fain possess the People among whom this Paper was to be shewn with so much Triumph with an Opinion that we have Idols in our Church But does he think that I can swallow things without chewing as they do That he begs leave to tell me that whatsoever is placed in God's Worship without the Command of God is an Idol i. e. it is the Representation of some Divine or Beatified Object which is as such propounded and set up for Adoration Was there ever such a wild Assertion Or could any Man think it possible that he should so luckily hit upon such a Text of Scripture to prove it by God Commands the Children of Israel to put Fringes upon the Borders of their Garments to be a Remembrancer to them of God's Commands and their Duty of Obedience ergo whatsoever is placed in God's Worship without the Command of God is an Idol Where the Consequence is I profess I cannot see But if your Eyes are clearer than mine I desire you to examine the strength of it in another Instance besides that of the Cross and Surplice The laying the Hand upon and kissing the Book in the taking of an Oath which is both a Natural and Instituted part of Worship is appointed without the Command of God and therefore the laying the Hand upon and kissing the Book is an Idol or rather the Book it self A clear Proof you have Numb 15.39 But possibly I may carry this Matter further than he intended He took it perhaps for an undoubted Truth which wanted no Proof that whatsoever is placed in God's Worship without the Command of God is an Idol and therefore he might not urge this Text of Scripture for the confirmation of that but to prove that none hath Power to Ordain or Place a C●remony in Christ's Church but himself who is King of it But since he herein directly opposes one of the Thirty nine Articles the Opinion and Practice of the whole Church of God and even St. Paul's Direction to the Corinthians to appoint whatsoever shall be tending to Decency and Order he should certainly have given some better Proof than a Text out of the Old Testament which does not relate to the Worship of God and which in my Opinion would much better have proved that the Parliament should not have enacted That Poor Persons Receiving Parish Collection shall in an open and visible manner wear a Badge and that too upon the Shoulder of the Right Sleeve of the uppermost Garment because as one of them once told me when there was formerly such a private Order among our selves it was no where commanded in the Word of God that they should be marked like Sheep ANSWER Again that which is Man's Device and hath been an Idol in God's Worship must of necessity be an Idol still in the Worship of God but the Ceremonies mention'd in the service-Service-book have been Idols in God's Worship as the Cross and Surplice ergo they must be Idols still in the Worship of God Read Josh 7.13 there the Lord Commands Joshua saying Up sanctifie the People for thus saith the Lord God of Israel there is an accursed thing in the midst of thee O Israel Nay God tells Joshua he would not be with them any more except they destroyed the accursed thing i. e. the Babylonish Garment which Achan had taken and hid in the midst of his Tent. For this he and his Sons and his Daughters and all that he had must be stored with Stones and burned with Fire REPLY I shall take his Syllogism to task presently But beforehand I cannot but observe what an excellent Textuary this Man is and how happy in his Application of Scripture I have read the seventh Chapter of Joshua and I refer him back again thereto and also to Co. 6 v. 17 18. where Joshua accurses Jericho and every thing in it and forbids the Israelites under the Penalty of bringing a Curse upon the Camp to meddle with any thing therein But Achan contrary to this express Prohibition had taken the accursed thing and had also sto●●● and dissemoled also and put it amongst his own Stuff Ch. 7 Ver. 11. What was this accursed thing which he stole Ver. 21 It was a goodly Babylonish Garment and Two hundred shekels of Silver and a Wedge of Gold of Fifty shekels weight them he coveted and took So that you see the Reason why Achan was so severely punish'd was his absolute Disobedience to the Command of God in taking of that which God had cursed his Stealth Covetousness and Dissimulation Now what is the Consequence of all this Does it appear that the Babylonish Garment was a Surplice or so much as used in the Worship of God or that the Wedge of Gold was a Cross or that Achan's Crime in stealing the Garment was greater than that of stealing the Two hundred shekels of Silver Tho' this learned Expositor explains the accursed thing by that is the Babylonish Garment But if the Babylonish Garment had been a Surplice and used by them in the Worship or God what then was it therefore an Idol and an accursed thing and therefore to be burned I answer positively No because for that very reason all the Silver and Gold and Vessels of Brass and Iron were to be brought into the Treasury of the Lord. But all the Silver and Gold and Vessels of Brass and Iron are consecrated unto the Lord they shall be brought into the Treasury of the Lord Ch. 6.19 And this I urge as an Argument against his Triumphant Syllogism every Proposition of which and the Consequence also I utterly deny For 1st That which hath been an Idol in God's Worship must not of necessity be an Idol still if it was not an Idol in its own
order to Church-Communion as the Word of God hath not required but on the contrary forbidden Prov. 30.6 Add thou not unto his words lest he reprove thee and thou be found a Lyar. Deut. 4.2 Ye shall not add unto the Word I command you neither shall ye diminish ought from it What will ye then say for your selves when God shall say unto you Who hath required these things at your Hands Sure I am to do more in the Service of God than He hath required will but Vndo us therefore the Wise Man exhorts Be not righteous overmuch why shouldst thou destroy thy self Remember Corah Dathan and Abiram and their Company who for doing what was not required were all consumed the Earth opened her Mouth and swallowed them up REPLY Now he speaks out And tho' the things you mainly scruple at such as the Cross and Surplice are more properly Instances of Obedience to Human Authority than Terms of Church-Communion which may be held by a Lay-Person in the more constant Services of Prayers and Preaching without joyning in those things he dislikes yet if it be true that the things imposed in our Liturgy are forbidden by God then I own that the fault of the Schism lies in us and that you have very good reason for your separating from us And if this Assertion were but as well proved as 't is confidently asserted I would never again read the Service-book But if you think me duly qualified for so great a Work will Preach to and Pray for you in the Mault-house tho' I have hitherto most affectionately loved the Habitation of God's House and the Place where his Honour dwells and was alwaies glad when they said unto me We will go into the House of the Lord. Let us therefore well examine the Proofs he produces for an Assertion deliver'd with so much Confidence to say no worse of it He alledges two Texts of Scripture which are useless and impertinent till it be proved that we make real Additions to the Word of God Those he mentions in the Psalms shall be consider'd by and by That which I presume he here means is that the things enjoyn'd in our service-Service-book being not commanded by God in his Word are Additions to it and that therefore these two Texts of Scripture are an undeniable Proof of the Unlawfulness of them this must be his meaning if he has any at all in what he says and I think I have represented it with all the Advantage he can desire But now if We are guilty of making Additions to the Word of God we either do what that forbids or Appoint somewhat else instead of what God hath appointed or We add such Expositions to the Commandment as the End of it is thereby frustrated or we make that which is not the Word of God to be of equal Authority with that which is or else we give the same Efficacy to Humane Institutions as God does to His But he can never charge us with any of these and how then can he charge us with Additions to the Word of God for adding is adding to the Substance and making the thing added of the nature of the thing it is added to but when the Substance remains entire as much after this Humane Appointment as it was before it it cannot be called an Addition to it in the sence the Scripture takes that word in But to the Argument which these Men draw from Deuter. iv 2. Dr. Fowler our present Bishop a great while ago replied That if they be not mistaken in the Sense of these words they will prove more than is intended to be proved or than they would have true namely that nothing is to be done out of as well as in the Worship of God but what is expresly and particularly commanded But Episcopius who may be listen'd to in this matter because no Episcopalian hath shewed that these words Ye shall not add unto the Word which I command you neither shall you diminish ought from it are no new Precept but only signifie Ye shall not transgress the Commandments of God by doing any thing contrary to them which is to Add or by omitting any thing Required by them which is to Diminish And therefore tho' ignorant People may be scared with the improper Application of that of Isa 1.12 yet it cannot belong to us who place no farther Religion and Acceptableness in our Prayers and Services than as they are accompanied with that Sincerity Faith Repentance and Obedience without which God told the Jews He had no delight in their Sacrifices tho' they were of his own appointing nor had required them to tread his Courts without these divine Qualifications But if We must Answer to that Question Who hath Required these things at your Hands then I tell You for God knows it and we are not afraid to appear before him upon that account that forasmuch as these things are no where forbidden We comply with them in Obedience to that Word which requires us to obey them that have Rule over us and to submit our selves to every Ordinance of Man for the Lord's sake And if this be the Word of God how comes this Man so uncharitably to pronounce the Sentence of Damnation upon us and tell us we shall be But undone as if that were not Punishment enough for doing more in the Service of God than He hath requir'd Why he grounds it upon Eccles 7.16 Numb 16. As for the Exhortation of the Wise Man if the best Commentators I have seen understand it right 't is the best Advice I can give to you it being interpreted of Heat and Zeal more than needs without Reason and Discretion which as it makes all the Schisms in the World so produces a great many other Evils I appeal to the whole World whether it is not properly Returned upon you who are transported into an excessive Z●●l and Rage against innocent Ceremonies and meer Circumstances of Worship and which are declared to be so and no way Essential to Religion by that Church which uses them And to this you must give me leave to add the other part of the Verse which he left out neither make thy self over-wise Do not without some better Grounds oppose your private Opinion to the Judgment and Authority of a whole Nation And in particular of as Pious and Learned a Clergy as any the whole World can shew Consider that it is possible you may be mistaken and that it does not become you to Assume that Infallibility to your selves which you deny to the Church of Rome As for the Example of Corah Dathan and Abiram if it be well consider'd our Case cannot be made Parallel to it But it highly deserves your Consideration whether you are not in some measure guilty of the like Crime which did not consist in doing what was not required but in Actual Rebellion against Moses and Aaron the Ministers of God and therefore against God himself What a
own and study to honour God by abstaining from these things by which he never said that he was dishonoured O that all tender Consciences would seriously consider this for they would soon discern that your Ministers by forbidding those things now in dispute lay greater Burthens upon the Consciences of their Brethren and clog them with more duties than God hath laid upon them Whereas we who think those things may be done lay no other Burthen upon the Conscience than what God himself hath laid which is to obey our Governours in all things wherein he himself hath not bidden us to do the contrary ANSWER I shall only touch of Additions in the Service Book there are added three whole Verses to the Fourteenth Psalm and one Verse to the Thirteenth Psalm REPLY If it be granted that there are those Additions he speaks of yet it was not the Mistake of the Common Prayer Book but of the Translations which the Common Prayer followed viz. the Septuagint and Vulgar But I wonder how he came to be so cautious as not to call these Additions to Scripture for that certainly was his meaning The Additions to the 14th Psalm are accounted for in one of the old Bibles by this Note That of this 14th Psalm the 5th 6th and 7th Verses which are put into the Common Translation and may seem unto some to be left out in this are not in the same Psalm in the Hebrew Text but are rather put in more fully to express the manners of the wicked and are gather'd out of the 5th 140th and 10th Psalms the 59th of the Prophet Isaiah and the 36th Psalm and are alledged by St. Paul and placed together in the 3d to the Romans But the saying that there is a Verse added to the 14th Psalm is a notorious Falshood there are only these words I will praise the Name of the Lord most Highest which are in the seventh Psalm and the last Verse What then can this Man be thought to mean Would he insinuate that these Additions are Inventions of our own or that they are inserted by the Church upon some wicked selfish design I hope it appears that they were not nor we upon the score thereof obnoxious to the Penalty of Deut. 4.2 before quoted by him But I would fain know whether they are not deeply guilty of the Crime they charge us with who teach That nothing is to be used in the Worship of God but what is prescribed by God himself for if that be not a Scripture Truth then what an Addition is this Do not they who teach this for a Scripture-Rule and Precept impose upon Mens Consciences as much as Papists and like them and the Pharisees of old teach the Traditions of Men for the Doctrines of God Nay is not this directly contrary to the Gospel it self which tells us that Sin is the Transgression of a Law and that where there is no Law there is no Transgression And thus you all along see with how keen an edge those Weapons turn upon you which you make use of in fighting against us ANSWER In a word I may say of all the Ceremonies in the Service Book as one of your own Church saith of the Succession of Church-Officers and in particular that of Bishops He tells us That our English Bishops received their Orders in the Communion of the Church of Rome and ergo they had as good Orders as any of the Church of Rome they must needs be as good when they are the same But 't is but a weak Proof for the Succession of their Bishops when they must go to Rome for it REPLY One would think it were high time for you to have done with this old Accusation of Popery and that you should have more Prudence than to give us Occasion to upbraid you with your fawning upon and sneaking to it in the late Reign while the Bishops and Clergy of our Church made such a brave and vigorous Defence against it even to the hazard of their ALL. If indeed it be true that our Bishops received their Orders in the Church of Rome then his ergo is good and the only good one he has made in this Paper and the Argument is a good one against the Papists and no weak one neither for the Succession of Church-Officers against you if you pretend to impugn it which if you do it lies at your door to prove a failure in their Succession since our Bishops are in possession of their Authority He ought to have quoted his Author for a Reason before mention'd But what if it be true is therefore Episcopacy unlawful or the Succession of our Bishops not good He may as well argue that the Water is not good or comes not from the Fountain-head because the Conduit thro' which it is convey'd is faulty But since this Man questions the Succession of our Bishops and upbraids us with having our Orders from the Church of Rome it is but reasonable to demand Whether your Preachers have any Orders at all and if they have Whence they had them and thro' what Channel they were convey'd down to them and whether you have any Arguments to urge for the Validity of Their Orders which we cannot with much more reason make use of to prove the Goodness of Ours But we may see how far Envy and Malice will sometimes make People overshoot themselves This Man rather than not send forth his Bolt at our Bishops and Clergy will strike at the whole Reformation and call in Question the Validity of the Orders of all the Reformed Churches of Luther and Calvin himself nay even the Authority of their own Ambassadors As for our Ceremonies tho' they be superstitiously abused by the Papists yet that is no Argument against the present use of them in the Church of England who retains them not because they are of Rome but of an Ancienter date than that now corrupted Church and if they are therefore unlawful because they are used by her then every thing done in that Church is so which I suppose you will not say We only reformed from the Errors and Corruptions of that Church and not from what was Apostolical Primitive and Innocent because they used it And whatever Opinion these People would have others entertain of them yet their admired Mr. Calvin declares in express words that He would not have any Man think him so Austere or bound up as to forbid a Christian without any Exception to accommodate himself to the Papists in any Ceremony or Observance for says he further it is not my Purpose to condemn any thing but what is clearly evil and openly vicious But for a full Answer to all you Object against us upon this score I refer you to the Case of Symbolizing with the Church of Rome by Dr. Eowler our present Bishop where he quotes those very words of Mr. Calvin ANSWER Sir we desire not Separation but Reformation for I hope we have all of us so tender
a regard for the everlasting Salvation of our own Souls that we shall endeavour to make choice of such a Minister as may be able to divide the Word of Truth aright and give to every one their Portion in due season REPLY I have observed but very little Coherence in any part of this Paper but I see none at all in this Clause on the contrary the very design of chusing another Minister is a Proof beyond denial of your Desire of Separation Your Reformation was the drift of my Paper and 't is Nonsense for you to retort it upon us till you have given some better Proofs that there are really such Faults in the Constitution of our Church as ought to be amended But if the Reformation you desire be as to Matters which you either have proved or can prove to be really evil I doubt not but the next Convocation that sits will readily gratifie you herein nay I verily think that they would take away some of those Ceremonies you scruple or however leave the Use of them to every ones liberty as the Canons of 40 have done Bowing towards the East if you could secure them against the evil Consequences of unnecessary Alterations or give them sufficient Grounds to believe that the Dissenters of this Kingdom would then Vnite in the Communion of the Church or that the major part of you who are distinguish'd from the other Sects by the Name of Presbyterians would thereupon come over thereto or indeed that such a Method of proceeding would not drive more out of the Church than it would bring in But if the Reformation you talk of be such as would maim and wound at least if not Vnchurch us or however lay us open to all manner of Confusion it is unreasonable you should be complied with and you do thereby plainly shew your Desires to be either after Ascendency over us or Separation from us Of which another Evidence is that you use no Endeavours to get your selves satisfied of the Lawfulness of joyning in our Worship You only read Books and hear Persons of one side You are full of Prejudice against us and are glad of any Pretence to separate from us You cry out against the Common-prayer but pray let me ask you and answer it to your Consciences Have you ever seriously and impartially read and examin'd that Book Have you a desire to hold Communion with us if you could perswade your selves that you might lawfully do it Have you proposed your Scruples to the Divines of our Church or Have you read what they have written in order to your satisfaction If you have done all these things then you have acted fairly But then let me ask again Have you met with any of your own Teachers that are able to give a sufficient Answer to their Arguments They may possibly put you off with Noise and Clamour instead of true Reason but certain it is they have none of them yet answer'd those excellent things that have been writ in the defence of our Church If they think their Cause so good and themselves able to defend it let them try their Skill at Mr. Hooker's Ecclesiastical Polity and the several Treatises writ by our Divines in the Reign of King Charles the Second not above two of which were ever answer'd but those Answers were Replied to without ever a Rejoinder some or all of which I would have those among you that have Time and Capacities for it to peruse particularly those that I have already had or shall have occasion to mention or refer to as also a Perswasive to Communion with the Church of England by the late Bishop of Chichester and The Case of Indifferent Things by the present Bishop of that Diocess The Discourses about Conscience and a Scrupulous Conscience by the present Archbishop of York and Dr. Calamy wherein you will be inform'd how far that Pretence will and will not bear you out in your Separation Our Church is freed from the Imputation of Popery by Dr. Hooper and all your Objections against the Common-Prayer answer'd by Dr. Claggett and Dr. Comber which latter has largely and devoutly Explain'd and Paraphras'd upon every part of it Mr. Evans has in two parts stated and resolved for you the Case of Kneeling at the Holy Sacrament And several more Discourses there are all writ with that Candour and Calmness which if you have leisure is sufficient to invite you to peruse and consider them And indeed one would wonder that after so many excellent Tracts writ in vindication of our Church there should be such a Person as a Dissenter in England I have all or most of these things by me and the Use of them is at the service of any of you that will desire and accept of it but you must put in practise the Advice of Epictetus which is to seek after Truth with the indifference of Travellers who matter not whether their way be to the right or left or forward so that it lead them to their Journeys end ANSWER Sir as for your accusing us of Schism the keeping it up in the Church of God and rending and dividing the Body of Christ and all for separating from those Errors the Church is guilty of from which we have a Commandment to separate our selves Come out from amongst them saith the Lord and touch not the Unclean thing and I will receive you now whether it be right to obey GOD or Man judge ye Now if you can make it appear that it is Schism to obey GOD rather than Man and that it 's a rending and dividing the Body of Christ when we contend but for the pure Administration of his Ordinances according to his own Appointment Now if you can prove this I will yield you the Cause REPLY Your saying that I accused you of Schism the keeping it up in the Church of God and rending and dividing the Body of Christ is false I did not positively charge you therewith I signified to you the Guilt and Danger of that Crime that you might take care not to incurr either by separating upon Humor or Prejudice without just Grounds and Reasons And I was purposely thus cautions in expressing my self that I might not baffle my own Design by saying any thing that might disoblige or exasperate Persons whom I had some Grounds to suspect were self will'd and too inclinable to be soon angry but since you will force me to speak out I 'll tell you my Mind freely and because this Man seems to exult in vindicating you from that Charge and says it wholly upon us I will endeavour to make it appear that notwithstanding any thing he has said you are Schismaticks still That therefore which I do say and for which I have both good Reason and good Authority is this that forasmuch as you withdraw your Communion from that Church that I mean to which I invited you with which you lawfully may and with which therefore you ought to