the whole wheresoever it is spred but is found separate in some parte it is manifest that they are not in the Catholik Church Therefore it is not sufficient for salvation only to belieue that Christ is the sonne of God 64. The example of men of Beroea Act 17. V 11. who were searching the scriptures if these things were so is of no force in many respects First Heere is no least insinuation of any vniversall precept to reade or search the scriptures but only a narratioÌ„ of what those meÌ„ did and if the fact of some may be alledged as a command for all to reade the scriptures why may not the example of others who belieued only by hearing S. Paule and the other Apostles preach and seeing them worke Miracles and propose excellent reasons and arguments of Creâ—â—â—bility be alledged for a command that men should belieue without delaying their conversion till they reade scriptures Secondly they did not search the scriptures with any intention to find all the particular Mysteryes of Christian Faith evidently expressed in them which is our question but only that mayne poynt which was preached to them by S. Paule that this is Jesus Christ whom I preach to you V. 3 other particular poynts they would easily learne by further instruction of the Apostles being once assured in generall that they were persons worthy of all credit and Messengers of God Thirdly The scriptures which they did search were the Bookes of the Old testament in which all the necessary particular poynts of Christian Faith are not evidently contayned since Protestants teach that all necessary poynts are contayned in scripture only after the whole Canon of the Bible was ended yea the word searching shewes that euen that article of the true Messias was not evidently contayned in the Old testament but that the finding of it required labour as in the like case I shewed aboue out of S. Chrissostome and others about the word scrutamini search Fourtly Although the search of scriptures and consonance of them with s. Paules wordes might help the conversion of those meÌ„ yet who can doubt but the preaching and viva vox interpretation and explication of scripture alledged vrged and illustrated by S. Paul did also cooperate and operate more then the only reading of scriptures which many did reade and yet were not converted Which shewes their obscurity even in this Fundamentall Article concerning the Messias as we reade Act. 13.27 Not knowing him nor the voyces of the prophets that are read every sabboth And Luc. 24.44.45 it is sayd These are the words which I spake to you when I was with you that all things must needs be fulfilled which are written in the Law of Moyses and the Prophets and the Psalmes of me Then he opened their vnderstanding that they might vnderstaÌ„d the scriptures Wherfor the example of the Beroeans is not to the purpose vnless it can be proved that they redd the scripture without the assistance of such other meanes as I haue mentioned and that they found theÌ„ so â—â—ident that they needed no other help which certainly is wholy impossible to be proved Even Cartwright in whitg Def. P. 784. confesseth that Vnless the Lord workes miraculously and excraordinarily the bare reading of the scriptures without the preaching caÌ„not deliver so much as one poore sheepe from destruction Therfor scripture is not evident in all necessary Poynts otherwise it might deliver men from destruction Fiftly I say that not only those men had no obligation to read the scripture before they believed S. Paul but as the rhemes testameÌ„t vpon this place wisely observes they were bound to belieue the Apostle aÌ„d obey his word whether he alledged scripture or no or whether they could reade and vnderstand it or no. Therfor this example cannot be alledged to proue that all necessary Poynts of Faith are evident in scripture alone Sixtly This example is wholy impertineÌ„t if the Beroeans did search the scriptures only for their greater comfort aÌ„d confirmation in the Faith which they had already embraced by the preaching of S. Paul aÌ„d not by searching the scriptures as Cornelius à Lapide holds and to that purpose alledges the Text itself which sayth V. 11. And these were more noble theÌ„ they that are at Thessalonica who receyved the word with all greediness daily searching the scriptures if these things were so Where first it is sayd they receyved the word and then were searching the scriptures And this also is the judgment of the Rhemes TestameÌ„t 65. Besides the places which I haue answered Protestants are wont to alledg the words of the Apocalyps 22. V. 18.19 I testify to every one hearing the words of the prophecie of this Booke If any man shall add to these things God shall add vpon him the plagues writteÌ„ in this book And if any man shall diminish of the word of the book of this prophecy God shall take away his part out of the book of life aÌ„d out of the holy citie aÌ„d of these things that be writteÌ„ in this booke But what is this to the purpose of proving that we are obliged to reade and seek out of the Apocalyps alone for of it only S. Iohn expressly declares himself to speake all necessary Poynts of Christian Faith or that it contaynes evidently all such points in particular So farr was this sacred booke from having been written for a Catechisme or an entire Rule of Faith that it is a Prophecy or revelation of things to come so hidden and sublime and profound that S. Hierome sayth Tot habet SacrameÌ„ta quot verba Every word is a Mystery The curse which S. John interminates falls vpon such as either would add any thing contrary to this book or corrupt it by fathering on it some apocriphall writing or Revelation or diminish it by some part or which is worst of all quite abolish it as not Canonicall as in old tyme Marcionistae Alogiani Theodosiani as witnesseth Epiphan Lib. 2. Heres 51. did And Erasmus Lutherus Brentius and Kemnitius doe The Author of the Commentary vpon this booke bearing the name of S. Ambrose saith that He curses Heretikes that vsed to add somwhat of their own that was false and to take away other things that were contrary to their Heresyes But God forbid we should interpret Him to exclude the Authority of the Church and lawfull Pastours since S. John himself as long as he lived was a Living Rule or Iudg for matters of Faith besides the word written in the Apocalyps or in other Canonicall scripture and so no scripture was then the only Rule of Faith Yea S. John after the sayd curse adds two verses more and Cornel. a Lapide Quest Proaemialib in Apocalypsim saith it is cleare that S. John wrote the Apocalyps before he wrote the Gospell For this he wrote being retourned from his banishmeÌ„t of Patmos where he wrote the Apocalyps as S. Hierome teaches in Catal. script Ecclesiast and Eusebius Lib. 5. Hist C. 24.
from Heretiques because we affirme that all necessary doctrine concerning either Faith or Manners is not contayned expressly in scripture and that beside the written word of God there is required the vnwritten word that is Divine and Apostolicall Traditions c ād C. 4. the very title wherof is this The necessity of Traditions is proved in the beginning he sayth First we will endeavour to shew that scripture without Traditions was neither simply necessary nor sufficient Secondly that there are extant Apostolicall Traditions not only concerning manners but also Faith Is it not very strāge you should alledg Bellarmine for the sufficiēcy of scripture alone who in a whole booke containing twelue Chapters professes to teach and proue the necessity of Tradition or Gods vnwritten word and in most cleare words which even now we alledged declares how scripture is cleare and sufficient namely togeather with Tradition and Interpretation of Gods church But by this is confirmed what I sayd aboue how hard it is to find evidence in holy Scripture the matter and manner wherof surpasses all naturall witt seing the words of men are so confidently alledged out of those places wherin they purposely teach profess and proue the direct contrary of that for which they are produced as here you say that the words you cite out of Bellarmine are as you conceyue as home to your purpose as you could wish them 99. Object 2. You say Pag 337. N. 20. S. Luke plainly professeth that his intent was to write all things necessary And Pag 212. N. 43. For S. Luke that he hath written such a perfect Gospell that is as you speake the whole substance all the necessary parts of the Gospell of Christ in my judgment it ought to be with them that belieue him no manner of question And this you endeavour to proue out of these words of S. Luke in the Introduction to his Gospell For asmuch as many haue taken in hand to set forth a declaration of those things which are most surely believed amongst vs even as they delivered vnto vs which from the beginning were eye-witnesses and ministers of the word it seemed good to me also having had perfect vnderstanding of things from the first to write to thee in order most excellent Theophilus that thou mightest know the certainty of those things wherin thou hast bene instructed To this place you add the entrance to his history of the Acts of the Apostles the former treatise haue I made ô Theophilus of all that Iesus began both to doe and teach vntill the day in which he was taken vp Therfor say you all things necessary to salvation are certainly contayned in S. Lukes writing alone 100. Answer First you falsify S. Luke in saying that he plainly professeth that his intent was to write all things necessary For where do you find those words all things necessary And much less can you find that he plainly professeth to deliver all things necessary and least of all that he plainly professeth to deliver all necessary things plainly or evidently The Question is not between vs whether all necessary things be contayned in scripture obscurely or implicitely or in a generall way of referring vs to Gods Church for divers particulars but whether all necessary Points be contayned in scripture expressly in particular evidently without reference to the Tradition Interpretation or Declaration of the Church and it is evident that S. Luke hath no evident words to proue all that I haue sayd you must proue if you speake to the matter Which also appeares by considering that not only Catholiques amongst whom you will not deny but there are many learned pious and desirous to saue their soules but Protestants also see no such evidence for proving the sufficiency of S. Lukes Gospell or any other Gospell or particular Booke of Scripture taken alone seing their doctrine is that scripture contaynes all things necessary only after the Canon was finished and yet S. Lukes Gospell was written forty yeares before the whole scripture was written For this cause Protestants interpret Omnis scriptura vtilis est 2. Tim. 3.16 All scripture is profitable not distributiuè for every particular part or Booke of scripture but collectiuè for the whole Bible and some English Protestant Translation Ann 1586. hath not All scripture but the whole Bible is profitable where by the way is to be noted how they can helpe their errours by their different Translations and how litle credit is to be given to their Bibles Neither do Protestants commonly alledge these Texts of S. Luke for the sufficiency of scripture but other places as we haue seene aboue and who can imagine that they would haue omitted so pregnant a proofe if they were of your mynd concerning the evidence therof Remember here what you say Pag. 61. N. 24. The thing is not evident of it self which is evident because many do not belieue it How then can the words and meaning of S. Luke be evident of themselves seing so many both your Brethren and Adversaryes neither see nor belieue any such meaning Call also to mynd what you write Pag 99. N. 119. How shall I be assured that the places haue indeed this sense in them Seing there is not one Father for 500. yeares after Christ that does say in plaine termes the Church of Rome is infallible This I retort and fay seing there is not I say not one Father for 500. yeares after Christ but not one learned writer for 1500. yeares after Christ that interprets this Text as you doe How shall I be assured that this place hath indeed this sense in it Yea even by this appeares the necessity of a living judg to declare the true meaning of this and other Texts of Scripture as occasion shall require 101. 2. S. Luke saith Assecuto omnia Having had perfect vnderstanding of All And the former Treatise haue I made of all that Jesus began both to doe and teach Of All All is a signe of Vniversality he that sayes all excepts nothing If therfor we follow the plaine obvious vsuall Grammaticall and Logicall sence it must signify that S. Luke delivered in writing absolutely all that our Saviour wrought and taught But this larg notion you cānot admitt without contradicting S. John Cap 21.25 But there are many other things which Jesus did which if they were written in particular neither the world it-self I thinke were able to containe those books that should be writtē Well thē being drivē from the Logicall ād seeming evidēt notion of All you must vnderstand All not in the whole latitude of the word but with some restriction I pray you shew vs this particular restriction not from any probable vncertaine topicall discourse of your own but from some certaine express evident Text of Scripture declaring this restriction But this is impossible for you to doe as every child will see Therfor this your argument is already at an end for as much as can be proved out of
not such a feeling of Scripture and the Gospell of Christ they are no Christians nor ought we to forbeare the declaring how necessary infallible Faith is for any panicall feare of this Pharisaicall scandall Rather we are obliged to declare the truth least we become accessary to their perdition which none can avoyd who deny the certainty of Christian Faith and Religion and rest in the false confidence of fallible probable faith of the same kind with the belief which they give to the truth of other storyer I know you rely much vpon that Axiom that the Conclusion followes the weaker Premise but I did not imagine as I touched hertofore you would so farr betray yourselfe as to hold that If one have probable Motives to believe that some Man did testify a truth and have equall Motives that God reveales or witnesserh the same thing his assent to that truth as it is witnessed by God is not greater than his belief therof as it is witnessed by man if the Reasons for which I believe it is witnessed by God and by Man be of equall strength and yet you must say so if with your considering men you believe the Scripture and Gospell of Christ with the same kind of belief which they give to the truth of other storyes Wherin I confess you would doe as all Heretiques are wont pass from ill to worse For Pag 141. N. 27. you say For the incorruption of Scripture I know no other rationall assurance we can have of it then such as we have of the incorruption of other ancient Bookes that is the consent of ancient Copyes such I meane for the kind though it be farr greater for the degree of it And Pag 62. N. 24. speaking also of the incorruption of Scripture you say I know no other meanes to be assured herof than I have that any other Book is incorrupted For though I have a greater degree of rationall and humane Assurance of that than this in regard of divers considerations which make it more credible That the Scripture hath bene preserved from any materiall alteration yet my assurance of both is of the same kind and condition both Morall assurances and neither Physicall or Mathematicall But now you are very carefull that the faith of considering men be not crackt by too much straining but be left to believe the Gospell of Christ with such a kind of assent as they yeald to other matters of tradition and is vndiscernable from the belief they give to the truth of other storyes Vnhappy men who relying on their considering and discoursing forget that Christian Faith is a Gift infused by the Holy Ghost and not to be measured by meere humane Motives or Rules of logick I will not loose tyme in telling you that a thing may be crack't by too much strayning not only by excess as you vnjustly accuse vs but also by way of Defect such as your weake faith is in order to the true saving Faith of Christians which being reduced to probability looseth its very Essence and Kind 102. Object 8. Against these words of Charity Maintayned Chap 6. N. 2. Allmighty God having ordained man to a supernaturall End of Beatitude by supernaturall meanes it was requisite that his vnderstanding should be enabled to apprehend that End and meanes by a supernaturall knowledg And because if such a knowledge were no more than probable it could not be able sufficiently to over-beare our will and encounter with humane probabilityes being backed with the strength of flesh and bloud it was further necessary that this supernaturall knowledg should be most certaine and infallible and that Faith should believe nothing more certainly then that it selfe is a most certain Belief and so be able to beare downe all gay probabilityes of humane Opinyon You argue thus Pag 327. N. 5. Who sees not that many millions in the world forgoe many tymes their present ease and pleasure vndergoe great and toyisome labours encounter great difficultyes adventure vpon great dangers and all this not vpon any certaine expectation but vpon a probable hope of some future gaine and commodity and that not infinite and eternall but finite and temporall Who sees not that many men abstaine from many things they exceedingly desire not vpon any certaine assurance but a probable feare of danger that may come after What man ever was there so madly in love with a present penny but that he would willingly spend it vpon a little hope that by doing so be might gaine a hundred thousand pound and I would faine know what gay probabilityes you could devise to disswade him from this Rosolution And if you can devise none what reason then or sence is there but that a probable hope of infinite and eternall happyness provided for all those that obey Christ Iesus and much more a firme faith though not so certain in some fort as sense or science may be able to sway our will to obedience and encounter with all those temptations which Flesh and Bloud can suggest to avert vs from it Men may therfor talke their pleasure of an absolute and most infallible certainty but did they generally belieue that obedience to Christ were the only way to present and eternall felicity but as firmely and vndoubtedly as that there is such a Citty as Constaninople nay but as much as Caesars Commentaryes or the History of Salust I belieue the life of most men both Papists and Protestants would be better than they are Thus therfor out of your owne words I argue against you He that requires to true faith an absolute and infallible certainty for this only Reason because any less degree could not be able to overbeare our will c imports that if a less degree of faith were able to doe this then a less degree of faith may be true and divine and saving faith But experience shews and Reason confirmes that a firme faith though not so certaine as sense or science may be able to encounter and overcome our will and affections And therfor it followes from your owne reason that faith which is not a most certaine and infallible knowledg may be true and divine and saving faith 103. Answer First when Charity Maintayned wrote against D. Potter who with other Protestants and Catholiques maintaynes the infallibility of Christian Faith he never dreamed of any necessity to proue such an infallibility and therfor he touched that point incidently and not of purpose as a thing presupposed not to be proved And therfor what you object against vs is to be answered by those whom you call Brethren 104. Secondly I might speedily and easily answer in one word That your Objection doth not so much as touch the Argument of Char Maintayned which was that vnless Faith were infallible it would not be able to beare downe all probabilityes of humane Opinyon offering themselves against it that is it could not be constant and permanent and therfor must either be infallible or end in none at
Constantinople and the Greek Rapsody of African Canons had vntruly put out of the Canon the two Bookes of the Machabees though they were receyved in Africa as Canonicall by the Decree of the African Councell And therfor you were ill advised vnder colour of commending Pope Gregory but indeed the more to impugne vs by his authority to write Greg M or Magnus the great wheras he was no Pope but only Deacon when he first wrote those commentaryes vpon Job Thus farr Cha Ma 55. As for your demand whether before Sixtus Quintus his tyme our Church had a defined canon of scripture or not I Answer We had the same Canon then which we haue novv and vvhich the sacred councell of Trent hath set dovvne Sess 4. decreto de Canonicis scripturis The church had alvvayes the same Canon that is she never declared by any decree any bookes to be Apocryphall at one tyme vvhich she admitted for Canonicall at another One Councell may omitt or not mention some booke vvhich another specifyes but can never declare it to be Apocryphall or not canonicall to vvhich contrariety only private persons are obnoxious But yet although our church had not set do vvne the canō of scripture it is very improper for you to object then was your Church surely a most vigilant keeper of scripture that for 1500 yeares had not defined what was scripture and what was not For do not Protestāts till this day disagree about the canon of scripture and so are not able to define vvhat is scripture and what is not yea they positively deny some books to be scripture vvhich others of them affirme to be Canonicall It is true I cannot properly say that for 1500 yeares they haue not defined any canon because they haue no such ancient being But I must say although they should last 1500 millions of yeares they vvould never be able to set dovvne any certaine canon as not having any assured ground for vvhich one part should yield to another And still I must be putting you in mynd of the difference betvveen Catholiks and Protestants that vve vvho believe the church to be infallibly assisted by the Holy Ghost are sure that she cannot deceaue vs vvith false or Apocryphall scriptures nor obtrude any false canon vvheras you vvho rely vpon scripture alone and yet can haue no certainty vvhat is the true canon as appeares both by your mutuall disagreements and because you haue no certaine infallible meanes to knovv vvhat is true scripture can haue no security for your faith in regard you haue no certainty concerning the totall rule therof 56. Your other Demand Whether our Canon of scripture vvas that vvhich vvas set forth by Sixtus or that set forth by Clement or a third different from both If it be vvell considered is to speake truth exoticall for to the demand vvhat books be Canonicall the direct and right Ansvver is that such or such books belong to the Canon of scripture for example Genesis Exodus Psalmes foure Gospells c vvhich Demand and Ansvver abstract from that other question about different Translations and Editions And vvho vvill aske vvhether the Septuagint or Aquila or Luther Calvin Beza Castalio set out a different Canon of scripture I meane for those bookes in which they agree that they are Canonicall and yet it is notorious that their Translations of the same canon or books of scripture are most different Or if you will haue these demands to be all one seing both the Hebrew and Greeke books are corrupted as Calvin confesses your answer to your owne Demand must be that no true canon of scripture can be found and then woe be to Protestants whose Faith and salvation depends vpon the true canon of scripture If your Demand be about the Edition of Sixtus and Clement I Answer They sett forth no different canon but the selfsame to wit those books which before their tyme made vp the canon of scripture And as for the edition of Sixtus it is no good dealing in you to doe in this as you did concerning the words of S. Gregory concealing the large and cleare Answer which Cha Ma gaue to the same objection made by Potter Part. 2. Chap. 6. N. 3. where by the Authenticall Testimonyes of Persons aboue all exceptiō he shewed that the Decree of Sixtus about his edition was never promulgated that he himself had declared diverse things to haue crept in which needed a second review and that the whole work should be re-examined which he could never do being prevented by death 57. But good Sr. Reflect I beseech you that in this and the like Demands you give deadly wounds to Protestants who profess to rely vpon scripture alone and yet cannot possibly haue any certainty what scripture is true or corrupted by the Hebrew or Greek Texts which they acknowledg to be corrupted and much less by Translations of Protestants who bitterly accuse one another of most grievous errours in their Translations as Cha Ma hath shewed Part. 1. Chap. 2. N. 16. which I wish the Reader for the Eternall good of his soule to peruse and reflect that if scripture be the only Rule of his Faith and yet he either is sure that some Texts therof are corrupted or at least not sure but that they are so he cannot be obliged to belieue any one Text nor can in Matters of Eternity rely theron as in case divers meates were set before me wherof I know some to be poysonous and I haue no meanes to discerne them from the other I cannot safely touch any one of them But the matter passes in a far different manner with vs Catholiks as I haue often sayd and must often repeate We being sure that the church can neither approue any least corruption nor ground vpon it any Point of Faith and so a corruption in a true booke of Scripture can no more hurt vs then false Scriptures or Gospells which were vented in the primitive church could prejudice those Christians Nevertheless although as I sayd the church cannot approue any false translation yet she is not obliged at all tymes to declare one for Authenticall till all circumstances considered there appeare some necessity therof as the sacred Councell of Trent did by occasion of a multitude of pernicious Translations published by moderne Heretiks in favour of theyr heresies and for other just causes Luther himself Lib contra Zwing de verit Corporis Christi in Euchar was at length foroed to confess that If the world last longer it will be againe necessary to receiue the Decrees of Councells and to haue recourse to them by reason of divers interpretations of scripture which now raigne 58. To that which you say in the same N. 29. suppose it had bene true that never any Booke after reteyving had bene Questioned how had this bene a signe that the Church is infallibly assisted by the Holy Ghost In what moode or figure would this Conclusion follow out of these Premises Certainly
contradictions and falshoods then are found in those Bookes of Scripture which both Catholikes and Protestants admit Now say I in this case what shall Reason doe being left to itself without any Authority beside itself The Motives and humane Testimonyes of your tradition produced in favour of Christianity are only probable as you affirme Arguments to the contrary seeme convincing and such as haue bene held for Principles among the best Philosophers as I shewed vpon another occasion and therfor Christian Religion is accounted foolishness to the Gentils and we treate of the tyme before one is a Christian who theÌ„ will oblige such a Man being in possession of his Liberty to accept vnder paine of damnation an obligation positively to belieue and to liue according to the Rules of Christian Faith only vpon fallible inducements in opposition to so great seeming evidence to the contrary 76. Neither can you in your grounds say that Miracles wrought in confirmation of Christian Religion ought to be prevalent against all seeming evidence of reason For you teach that true Miracles may be wrought to delude men for avoyding of which delusion it may seeme wisdome and safest to sticke close to the Principles of Reason wherby though he may chance to be deceyved yet he cannot be accounted rash imprudent or inexcusable 2. you must suppose that Miracles and all other Motives end in probability alone for if they surpass probability you grant Christian Faith to be infallible and then the difficulty still remaynes how one can be obliged to imbrace meere probabilityes and such as you confess are not able to rayse our mynd to a higher and more firme assent than they themselves are against and as I may say in despight of seeming evidence of Reason opposed only by such probabilityes 3. This Answer is not pertinent to our present Question which is not to treate how farr one may be obliged by Miracles either evident by sense to those who see them wrought or asserted and delivered by an authority believed to be infallible as we Catholikes belieue Gods church to be but we speak of Miracles wrought in great distance of tyme and place from vs commended and believed only by your fallible tradition which therfor leaves this doubt whether one can be obliged to preferr fallible humane tradition confessedly insufficient to cause a certaine assent before seeming evidence and certainty of naturall Reason And it seemes easy to demonstrate that Protestants if they will be constant to their owne assertions and proceedings must yield to that seeming evidence of Reason For it cannot be denyed without great obstinacy and impudency that in all ages there haue bene wrought frequent great and evident Miracles by the professours of the Catholique Religion recorded by men eminent for learning wisdome and Sanctity who would be credited in whatsoever case or cause of highest concernment and testifyed not by one or a few or many single persons but by whole Communityes Cittyes and Countryes by meanes of which Miracles Infidels haue beene and are at this day converted from the worship of Idols to know the true God and whom he hath sent Jesus Christ and yet notwithstanding all these Miracles which are able to convert Pagans Protestants will not conceiue themselves obliged to belieue that such Miracles were wrought or that those Articles of our Faith in confirmation wherof they were wrought are true And why Because they seeme contrary to naturall Reason as the Reall Presence Transubstantiation c Seing theÌ„ they reject Catholique Doctrines confirmed by Miracles in regard of that seeming contrariety to Reason how can they pretend Reason to receaue Scripture and the contents therof for example the Misteryes of the B. Trinity the Incarnation of the Son of God the Creation of all things out of nothing the Resurrection of the Dead and other such Articles which they make shew to belieue and are no less yea much more seeming contrary to reason then those doctrines of Catholikes which they reject Wherfor our finall Conclusion must be that to deny an infallible Authority both to propose Scripture and deliver infallible Traditions is to vndermine and ouerthrow Christian Religion 77. 7. Since Scripture may be corrupted as some haue bene lost and in particular Protestants affirme even the Vulgate Translation which anciently was vsed in the Church to be corrupted as also the Greek and Hebrew your Tradition cannot secure vs what in particular is or is not corruted because it delivers only as it were in gross such or such Bookes but cannot with certainty informe vs of all corruptions additions varietyes and alterations as occasion shall require Thus some both Catholikes and Protestanis teach that Additions haue been made even to Pentateuch others assirme the same of the Bookes of Josue Kings and Hieremy and the like Additions might and perhaps haue been made to other Bookes at least we cannot be sure of the contrary if we consult only your fallible Tradition neither can we know by it that such Additions proceeded from the Inspiration of the Holy Ghost And as Protestants are wont to say that a very great number of Catholique Doctrines which they vntruly call errours crept in by little and little as you also say Pag 91. N. 101. so what certainty can they haue that corruptions in Scriptures yea whole Apocriphall Bookes may not in tyme haue gained the repute of being Canonicall As for corruptions in Scripture you speak dangerously in saying Pag 141. N. 27. As for the infallibility of the Church it is so farr from being a proof of the Scriptures incorruption that no proof can be pretended for it but incorrupted places of Scripture which yet are as subject to corruption as any other and more likly to haue bene corrupted if it had bene possible then any other and made to speake as they do for the advantage of those meÌ„ whose ambitioÌ„ it hath bene a long tyme to bring all vnder their authority And afterward I would aske how shall I be assured that the Scriptures are incorrupted in these plaâ—es which arealledged to proue the infallibility of the Church seing it is possible and not altogeather improbable that these men which desire to be thought infallible wheÌ„ they had the government of all things in their owne hands may haue altered them for their purpose Do not these words giue scope for the enemyes of Christian Religion to object that we cannot be certaine of any Text of Scripture whether or no it be incorrupted For as you say it is not altogeather improbable that we haue altered some places for our purpose of proving the infallibility of the Church so you may say we haue done the same in other places to prove other Points of our belief and the like may be sayd of all others who teach different Doctrines that they will incline to corrupt Scripture in favour of their severall Sects Neither can we haue any certainty whether this which may be done hath not bene practised and
he call his Faith That of the Roman Church Or that which is contained in the Books of Origen If he answer the Roman then we are Catholiques who haue translated nothing of the error of Origen And yet further Ibid. Lib. 3. know thou that the Roman Faith commended by the voyce of the Apostle doth not receyue these delusions though an Angell should denounce otherwise than it hath once bene preached 24. To these words of S. Hierom you answer First that he writing to Damasus a Pope might be apt to write over-truths An answer not deserving a confutation Secondly you say S. Hierom chose rather to believe the Epistle to the Hebrewes Canonicall vpon the Authority of the Easterne Church then to reject it from the Canon vpon the Authority of the Roman But this hath bene answered heretofore neither was there ever any decree of the Roman Church Pope or Councell excluding that Epistle from the Canon or rejecting any Book of the old or New Testament which was afterward admitted Thirdly you ask How was it possible that S. Hierom should ever belieue that Liberius Bispop of Rome either was or could haue bene wrought over by the sollicitation of Fortunatianus Bishop of Aquileiae and brought after two yeares banishment to subscribe Heresy Sr. It is a signe you want solid Objections when you fly to so farre fetched evasions and your proceeding is inexcusable in dissembling the Answer which Ch. Ma. Part. 2. Chap. 3 N. 30. gives out of Baronius Ann. 357. and Bellarmine De Roman Pont. Lib. 4. Cap. 9. who affirme that Liberius never subscribed to Arianisme or any error against Faith but only to a Point which concerned matter of fact and even greater Protestants than you doubt of that which you will needs haue to be vndoubted But indeed this old Objection is directly nothing to the purpose of proving that Liberius did ever define ex cathedra any errour against Faith but only that de facto by force of feare theates banishment and other sufferings he did subscribe against S. Athanasius as S. Peter denied our Saviour without forfeit of his Faith though he failed in the profession thereof our Saviour having saied Oravi pro te Petre vtnon deficiat Fides tua or as the same Apostle was reprehended by S. Paul even after the comming of the holy Ghost and yet I hope you will not denie but that one might haue saied I am in the coÌ„munio of the Chair of Peter I know that the Church is built vpoÌ„ tkat Rock whosoever gathereth not with thee scattereth and the same I say S. Hierom might haue saied of and to Liberius defining as Pope not as failing in fact as a man and we see that both before and after that forced act he was constaÌ„t not only in the true faith which he never lost but also in the profession thereof and what he did by force and feare must no more be imputed to him as Pope than a confession extorted by torture can be of force without a voluntary ratification Our Saviour saied men were to obey the words of the Scribes aÌ„d Pharisees not their deeds Is it not a doctrine of your owne Pag. 144 N. 31. that the doctrine of the Apostles was either fals or vncertain in no part of that which they delivered â—onstantly And certaine it is that Liberius did not make good his subscription if ever he subscribed to an errour but revoked it assoone as he was at liberty and as I may say taken of the Torture as alwaies before he had defended the Catholique truth If Marcellinus sacrificed to Idolls who will therefore say that he believed or defined Idolary to be Lawfull And vniversally if you will judg mens Faith by their Actions whosoever committs theft murther or any other sinne against the commandements must be condemned for an Heretique as believing theft to be Lawfull Finally if you will haue the strength of of S. Hieroms ArgumeÌ„t to cosist in this that Damasus was in the right only actually and accidentally the Saint had begged the Question and proved his owne Doctrine to be true because Damasus held with him and that which Damasus held de facto was true though Damasus might erre as other Bishops might whereas it is cleare that S. Hierom as his words express grounds himself vpon that firme and stable Rock of which our Saviour saied Thou art a Rock and vpon this Rock c. And this last overthrowes the evasion to which you â—llie N. 24. for interpreting the words of S. Ambros. 25. For your N. 25.26.27 I wonder how you could dissemble what Ch. Ma. hath Part. 2. Chap. 2. N. 31. whereof see also Bellarm in De Rom. Pont. Lib. 4. Cap. 7. where this matter is handled at large And who will not make a difference betwene S. Cyprian being disinterressed and delivering a generall Doctrine and prescriptions against all Heretiques and S. Cyprian speaking in a particular point wherein he was ingaged and which Protestants confess to haue bene an errour condemned by the whole Church against the Donatists namely the rebaptization of such as had bene baptized by Heretiques and by those very Bishops who once adhered to S. Cyprian as Charity Maint in the place cited even now shewes out of S. Hierom. And you do but deceiue your Reader in not making a difference betwene a Decree of Pope Stephen and a Definition of Faith which difference you might haue learned in that very place which you cite out of Bellarmine and we haue now alledged In fine all must answer the difficulty about S. Cyprian seing he was in an errour against Faith and therefore could be excused only by ignorance or pardoned by repentance In vaine N. 26. you tax the translation of Ch. Ma. as if he should not haue saied out of S. Cyprian Epist 55. ad Cornel. They are hold to saile to the Chaire of Peter and to the principall Church from whence Priestly Vnity hath spruing Neither do they consider that they are Romans whose Faith was commended by the preaching of the Apostle to whom falshood cannot haue accesse but should haue sayd to whom perfidiousness cannot haue accesse But this you say without proofe against the scope and connection of S. Cyprians words which speak of Faith commended by S. Paul not of Fidelity and consequently of falshood or perfidiousness or errour contrarie to Faith not of perfidiousness contrarie to the Morall vertue of fidelity For what congruity is there in this speach The Faith of the Romans is commended by the Apostle therefore perfidiousness or perfidious dealing cannot haue access to them as if all who belieue aright must also besincere and vpright honest men Wheras the consequence is very good and cleare that if their Faith be true errour against Faith or falshood cannot be approved by them You would proue that in vaine S. Cyprian had exhorted Cornelius to take heed of those Heretiques if he had conceived the Bishop of Rome to be infallible for matters of Faith
as if the certainty of attayning an end did exclude Meanes of Exhortations Praier and the like or as if God could not effectually moue vs to what he best pleases vnless he also make vs belieue that we may tempt him by omitting all diligence of our owne towards the attaining of that to which he moves vs or interposes a Promise that he will grant it vs. You say if we belieue the Fathers of the Councell of Chalcedon the Prerogatiue of the Church of Rome of being the principall Church was grounded vpon this reason because the City was the principall and imperiall Citie But I conceiue yourself cannot belieue that the Greek Church would or could yeald such a spirituall Prerogatiue to the Latine Church vpoÌ„ so slight a ground though that might be a kind of congruence supposing an other higher and stronger Reason to wit that S. Peter had lived and died Bishop of that Citie which was as I may saie the Primate of Cities Yet I am not sorie to heare you say We do not altogether deny but that the Church of Rome might be called the chaire of Peter in regard he is sayd to haue preached the Gospell there For to omit that you dare not deny that S. Peter was at Rome which some Protestants impudently deny you giue so poore a reason why the Church of Rome hath bene particularlie by the Fathers called the chaire of Peter that every one may see there must be some better ground for it than that which you alledge of his preaching in that Citie as it is graÌ„ted that he not only preached in but was Bishop of the Citie of Antioch and he preached in many other places which yet are not wont to be called the Chaire of Peter I beseech the Reader to peruse that learned Book called Anti-Mortonus against the GraÌ„d imposture of D. Morton § 4. about the Councell of Chalcedon aÌ„d he will find what Power was acknowledged to be in the Bishop of Rome aboue all Bishops through the whole world to say nothing for the present that no Councell without the confirmatioÌ„ of the Pope is of validity 26. Your N. 28. 29. 30. containe long discourses vpon occasion of a place cited by Ch. Ma. out of S. Irenaeus who Lib. 3. Cont. Hoeres Chap 36. saieth Because it were long to number the successions of all Churches we declaring the Tradition of the most great most ancient and most knowne Church founded by the most glorious Apostles Peter and Paul which Tradition it hath from the Apostles comming to vs by succession of Bishops confound all those who any way either by evill complacence of themselves or vaine glory or by blindness or ill opinion do gather conventicles otherwise then they ought For to this Church for a more powerfull principality it is necessary that all Churches resort that is all faithfull people of what place soever in which Roman Church the Tradition which is from the Apostles hath alwayes beene conserved from those who are every where 27. To this authority of S. Irenaeus you giue divers answers which vpon examination will be found insufficient and contrary to yourself You say the words set downe by Ch Ma shew that what Authority in the matter S. Irenaeus attributed to the Roman Church in particular the same for the kind though pâ—rhaps not in the same degree he attributed to all other Apostolique Churches Answer S. Irenaeus is so farre from affirming an equality betwene the Roman and other Churches that he expresly prefers her before the rest in such manner as though the rest had then had no Being yet all Heretiques might haue bene confuted by her sole authority For seing he acknowledges it needless to number the successions of other Churches in order to the force of his Argument he might as well haue supposed them not to exist as not to be necessarily taken notice of which he never saied of any other Apostolique Church Beside since he takes the Roman for as good as all other Apostolique Churches and for the same reason of all other Churches of that tyme whose successours he held it needless to reckon it being impossible that all Churches should faile in Faith we must conclude even out of S. Irenaeus his Reason that the Roman Church cannot faile in points of Belief And as for you I wonder how you would end your N. 28. in these words If v. Irenaeus thought the Testimony of the Roman Church in this point only humane and fallible then surely he could never think either adhering to it a certain marke of a Catholique or separation from it a certain marke of a Heretique For seing Cyou hold hristian Faith te be no more than probable and that the Tradition for which you receyue Scripture is humane and fallible how can you these your assertions supposed affirme that a testimony humane and fallible may not be sufficient to proue one a Catholique or Heretique Vnless you will say he is no Heretique who rejects Scripture and all Christianity nor that he is a Catholique who believes them because you profess that the motives for which you belieue them are fallible 28. You find fault with the noble Translatresse of Cardinall Perron for rendring Ad hane Ecclesiam necesse est omnem convenire Ecclesiam To this Church it is necessary that every Church should agree But if you will but consult Cowpers Dictionary you will find that you haue no reason against that noble Translatresse See I say the word Conveni and you will finde Convenit in eum haec Contumelia Cic. This reproach toucheth him justly Conveniunt hae vites ad quemvis agrum Cato Uarro These vines proue well in all grounds Conveniebat in tuam vaginam machaera militis Plautus The solidours sword was meete for thy Scabbard Convenit optime ad pedem cothurnus Cic. The slippar is as meete for the foote as may be Will you say This reproach resorts to him vines resort to the field the sword resorts to the scabbard the slippar resorts to the foote Neither is that Translation either contrary or different from the Translation of Ch Ma for as much as concernes the matter and meaning of S. Irenaeus To this Church it is necessary that all Churches resort For why should all Churches resort to this Roman Church but that they may be instructed by her and agree with her in matters concerning Faith not that they may correct controll and disagree from her Otherwise it had bene a strang Argument to convince Heretiques by the Roman Church if he had not taken that Church as a modell and Rule with which they ought to agree Neither doth resort signify a corporall going to Rome but a recourse for instruction either by going thither themselves or by other meanes as you must say of those who are round about But you say if S. Irenaeus had saied By shewing the tradition of the Roman Church we confound all Heretiques For to this Church all Churches must agree what had