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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A19670	A setting open of the subtyle sophistrie of Thomas VVatson Doctor of Diuinitie which he vsed in hys two sermons made before Queene Mary, in the thirde and fift Fridayes in Lent anno. 1553. to prooue the reall presence of Christs body and bloud in the sacrament, and the Masse to be the sacrifice of the newe Testament, written by Robert Crowley clearke. Seene and allowed according to the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions.	Crowley, Robert, 1518?-1588.; Watson, Thomas, 1513-1584. Twoo notable sermons.	1569 (1569)	STC 6093; ESTC S109120	329,143	416

doth descende or come downe from whence many doe receiue the earnest of eternall lyfe the safegarde of faith and the hope of resurrection The aultars I say vpon which our sauiour did commaund not to laye the offerings of brotherhood except the same be seasoned with peace Laye downe sayth he thine offering before the aultar and go thy way back agayne Agrée with thy brother that the priest may offer for thée For what other thing is the aultar but the seat of the bodye and bloud of Christ All these things hath your furie eyther scraped broken or set aside Thus farre Optatus against the Donatists amongst whome Parmenian was one of the chiefe Saint Austen wryting against the same Parmenian saith that the Donatists denied all that were not of their sect Contra Epist Parmen li. 1. Capit. 3. to be of the Church of Christ And therefore they accounted all the ministratiō that was done by any other minister then their owne to be filthy and abhominable And where they might get the vpper hande they made spoyle of all those things that serued for the ministration For which doings Optatus doth in this place inueygh against them And to cause their crueltie and folly to appéere the greater in breaking scraping and remouing the communion tables which he calleth aultars he giueth names of great excellencie and dignitie to those things that were ministred vpon those tables calling the same the body and bloud and members of Christ the earnest or pledge of euerlasting saluation the safegarde of fayth and the hope of resurrection Yea he sayth that God is inuocated and called vpon there and that the holy ghost being earnestly desired doth descend and come downe thyther But you slip ouer those wordes because the maner of spéeche that the wryter vseth there is by these wordes perceyued Watson can slip ouer some words For who knoweth not that the cōming downe of the holy ghost must be vnderstanded to be spirituall and therfore the maner of spéeche to be Hyperbolicall He sayth also that the vowes of the people be sustayned or borne vpon those tables whereby he vnderstandeth the prayers of the people as may appéere by that which he wryteth in the same booke where he sayth thus Cur votae desideria hominum cum ipsis altaribus confregistis Illic ad aures Dei ascendere populi solebat oratio c. Why haue you with those aultars dashed in péeces the prayers peticions of men The prayer of the people was wonte there to ascend to the eares of God Why haue you cut downe the way that the prayers should go vp by And why haue ye labored with wicked hands in maner to pul away the ladder that the praier should not haue away vp as it was wont to haue And that it is the communion table which he calleth an aultar it is plaine by the which he writeth in the same booke also where he saith thus Quis fidelium nescit in peragendis mysterijs ipsa ligna linteamine cooperiri c. What faithfull man is ignorant that in the ministration of the sacraments the timber is couered with a linnen cloth When you haue weighed all this that Optatus hath written you will not I trow make so great reconing of the names that he gyueth to the sacrament Accompting them as sufficient reasons to proue that the sacrament is the verie body and bloud of Christ and not bread and wine Hilarius also calleth it Cibus Dominicus Our Lords meat Hilarius li. 8. Verbum caro the worde made fleshe I must néedes let the readers sée the wordes of Hilarie as they stande written in his eyght booke De irinitate And then let him iudge howe worthye credite you are that shame not to snatch such péeces to proue your purpose He sayth thus Eos nunc qui inter Patrem filium voluntatis ingerunt vnitatem interrogo vtrumne per naturae veritatem bodie Christus in nobis sit an per concordiam voluntatis Si enim verè verbum caro factum est nos verè verbum carnem cibo dominico sumimus quomodo non naturaliter manere in nobis ixistimandus est qui naturam carnis nostrae iam inseparabilem sibi homo natus assumpsit naturam carnis suae ad naturam aeternitatis sub sacramento nobis communicandae carnis admiscuit Nowe I doe demaunde of them that doe cast in or heape vpon vs the vnitie of wyll betwéene the father and the sonne whether at this day Christ be in vs by nature in déede or by agréement of wyll For if the sonne of God be made fleshe in déede and we doe in the Lordes meat receyue the sonne of God incarnate in déede how should he be thought not to dwell naturally in vs which being borne a man hath both taken vnto himselfe the inseparable nature of our fleshe and also hath myngled the nature of his fleshe with the nature of eternitie to be communicated vnto vs vnder a sacrament If we shall vnderstand all these words of Hilarie so grossely as you would haue vs to vnderstand those wordes that you cite then shall Hilarie be found one of those that affirme the two natures in Christ to be confounded contrarie to that which all true christians doe with Athanasius confesse For he saith that Christ hath mingled the nature of his fleshe with the eternitie that is with the deuine nature We must therefore reade his wordes with fauour as I haue noted in that which I haue written vpon those wordes that you cite out of him in the .24 deuision of this Sermon Loke in the 24. deuision Being earnestly bent against those heretikes that denied the naturall vnitie betwixt Christ and his father he speaketh a great deale to largely of the vnitie betwixt Christ and vs calling that naturall also But for the wordes that you cite we confesse all that Hilarie sayth That is that we doe in déede receyue in the Lords meate verie Christ the sonne of God incarnate But not in your grosse maner Basill in his Masse calleth them Sancta Diuina c. Basilius in Missa Holy sacraments godly pure vndefiled immortall heauenly and gyuing lyfe Of what authoritie this Masse of Basill is I referre to the iudgement of the learned It is not neyther hath bene folowed in any Church neyther is it found in his workes in the Gréeke Wherefore it séemeth to mée to be but a deuise thrust out in his name by some one that was vnborne many yeres after Basill was dead But let it be of as great authority as you would wishe it to be shall his wordes that you cite proue the sacrament to be the body and bloud of Christ and neyther bread nor wine He calleth it but an holy godly vndefiled immortall heauenly and quickning sacrament If you adde a minor proposition and saye but euery such sacrament is the reall and naturall body of Christ shall we be enforced to conclude

pledge is giuen For in that sense is Symbolum taken here And vnlesse you can proue that these be efficient causes you shal neuer prooue that our immortalitie and resurrection be the effects thereof The lyke may be sayde to the Conseruatorium ad immortalitatem aeternae vitae A conserue or a thing that preserueth our bodies to the immortalitie of eternall life But bicause it is your custome to cite matter in such sort that the true meaning of the Author can not be perceyued by the wordes that you cite I will let the reader sée all the wordes that Athanasius doth in that place write of that matter Sed proptered ascensionis suae in caelum mentionem secit Athanasius De p ccato in spiritum sanctum vt eos a corporali intellectu abstraheret ac deinde carnem suam de qua locutus erat cibum è supernis caelestem spiritualem alimoniam ab ipso donandam intelligerent Quae enim locutus sum vibis inquit spiritus est vita Quod perinde est acsi deceret Corpus meum quod ostenditur d●tur pro mundo in cibum dabi●ur vt sparitualiter vnicuique t●●buatur fiat singulis tutamen praeseruatioque ad Resurrectionem vitae aeternae Ita qu●que Samaritanam abstrahens Dominus a rebus sensibilibus Deum esse spiritum pronuntiauit vt deinceps illa non corporalia sed spiritualia de Deo cogitaret But for this cause did he make mention of his ascention into heauen that he might drawe them away from the bodily vnderstanding and that they might afterwarde vnderstand his fleshe whereof he had spoken to be foode from aboue heauenly and spirituall nourishment and such as he must giue For sayth he that which I haue spoken vnto you is spirite and lyfe Which is as much as if he should say My body which is showed and giuen for the world shall be giuen to be meat that it may be spiritually giuen to euerye man and that it maye be to eche man a defence and preseruation vnto the resurrection of eternall lyfe In like maner also drawing the Samaritish womā from sensible things the Lorde affirmed that God is a spirite that from thence forth she should not think of God as of corporall things but as of things spirituall Now let the indifferent reader iudge how faithfully you haue vsed your selfe in alledging the saying of this auncient Father His grounde is the wordes of Christ in the sixt of Iohn Where speaking of the eating of his body he sayth It is the spirite that doth giue lyfe the fleshe profiteth nothing at all The words that I haue spoken vnto you are spirite and lyfe Which is sayth Athanasius as much as if he should say My body which is showed and giuen for the world shall be giuen to be foode that it may spiritually be giuen to euery man and that vnto eche man it may be made a defence and preseruation to the resurrection of eternall lyfe And to make his meaning playne Athanasius sayth that Christ made mention of his ascention into heauen that he might draw his hearers from the bodily vnderstanding And further he sayth that our sauiour talking with the Samaritish woman did draw hir from sensible things affirming that God is a spirit that so she might imagine no corporal thing to be in God but al spiritual I can not therefore but thinke that such as will ioyne with you in alledging this place to proue immortalitie and euerlasting lyfe to be the effect of the sacrament of Christes body and bloud are by obstinate wylfulnesse blinded as you doe shewe your selfe to be For it is as manifest as the cleare sunne light that his meaning was to disproue the grosse opinion of all such as imagine The meaning of Athanasius that Christ should giue his fleshe to fill the bellies of men And to teach that such as will benefite by eating of his body must eate the same spiritually and not carnally And that when it is spiritually eaten it is Tutamen praeseruatioque ad resurrectionem vitae aeternae A defence and preseruation vnto the resurrection of eternall life But this is not to teach that it is the efficient cause of our immortalitie and resurrection as you labor by this other places to proue But nowe let vs sée what you haue founde in Ireneus that was a great deale older then Athanasius He hath sayde Quomodo dicunt carnem c. By what reason doe they saye that our fleshe goeth wholy to corruption seing that it is nourished with the body and bloud of our Lorde This place of Ireneus is sufficiently opened before in the aunswere to that which you haue sayde of the first circumstaunce of the sacrament which is who it was that spake these words This is my body c and is playnely proued not to make any thing for your purpose eyther there or here Yet we haue not sayde any thing to that other place which you cite out of the fift booke of this Ireneus where he sayth Ireneus li. 5. Quomodo carnem negant capacem esse c. How doe they denie c. I might put you in remembraunce of that which Erasmus wryteth concerning his iudgement of the authoritie of this booke for I am sure you can tell that he hath written thus Censura Eras Roterodami In hoc quinto libro quum multa scripturarum loca diligenter explicentur quaedam tamen insunt quae nisi quis comode interpretetur non satis congruere videntur cum bis dogmatibus quae hoc tempore praescribit Ecclesia Where as in this fift Booke there be many places of Scripture diligently expounded yet are there certaine things in it which vnlesse a man doe well interpret doe not séeme to agrée verie well with those doctrines that at this time the Church doth prescribe Auncient writers must be read with fauour c. And afterwarde he sayth Sed in huiusmodi multis veteres illi cum candore nonnunquam cum venia legendi sunt c. But in many such things those auncient wryters must be read with fauour and sometime with pardon also But be it that Erasmus had not giuen vs this warning is there not warning ynough giuen vs in the wordes of the place it selfe to looke well to the wryters meaning You doe according to your custome cite those wordes onely which may at the first sight make some shewe of that you would proue by them But according to my custome I will let the reader sée the whole circumstaunce that he may be able to iudge which of vs both goeth most nigh to the meaning of the writer His wordes be these Vani autem omnimòdo qui vniuersam dispositionem Dei contemnunt carnis salutem negant regenerationem eius spernunt dicentes non cam capacem esse incorruptibilitatis Sic autem secundum haec videlicet nec Dominus sanguine suo redemit