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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A07781	A notable treatise of the church in vvhich are handled all the principall questions, that haue bene moued in our time concerning that matter. By Philip of Mornay, Lord of Plessis Marlyn, gentleman of Fraunce. And translated out of French into English by Io. Feilde.; Traicté de l'église. English	Mornay, Philippe de, seigneur du Plessis-Marly, 1549-1623.; Fielde, John, d. 1588.	1579 (1579)	STC 18159; ESTC S107520	167,479	400

time to time howe they are groūded vpon mans lawe and that which wee call positiue They holde that S. Peter was crucified vnder Nero in the yeere of our Lorde 69 and that Clement succeeded him Others say that Linus succeeded him then Saint Iohn yea and Iames himselfe If we beleeue those bookes supposed to bee Clements they shoulde haue obeyed Clement as head of the Church for he succeeded as they saye in Peters Authoritie he ought to haue no lesse authoritie then the popes at this daye who can dispense with Paules epistles A wonderfull case that the primitiue Church when they made the Canon of those bookes that should haue authoritie in the Church that they should rather put in those bookes of Iames and Iohn then of Clement the principall heire and successour of the holy ghost by the vertue of Saint Peters chaire A wonderfull matter further that this Clemēt made so smal accompt of succession so necessary in the Church seeing that in his epistle which he writeth to Iames Bishop of Ierusalem he calleth him our Lordes brother the Bishoppe of Bishops and gouernour of the Church of Ierusalem and of all others throughout all the worlde But yet a more wonderfull matter that they shoulde bee found so impudent in the light of good learning that at this day shineth as to foūd the papacie vpon those gaye bookes of Clement in which there are so many falsehoodes Clement writeth to Saynt Iames after Peters death and teacheth him the institution of our Lorde when as the Scripture witnesseth that S. Iames was martyred long before in Ierusalem and that as long as hee liued he was to teach Clement such matters and not to learne them of him And yet this is one of the notablest authors that they can alledge But let vs proceede We holde the Apostles Creede from the beginning of the Christian Church And we there finde the Catholike church But this article of the faith that pope Boniface the eight made is not therein That if we will be saued we must acknovvledge the pope to be the soueraigne Lord. Saint Cyprian saith That there is but one Bishoppricke of vvhich euery Bishop holdeth his parte vvholy vvithout any diuision Also that none of his time either called or made him selfe Bishoppe of Bishops eyther made through tyrannie his companions subiect to his obedience Also he complaineth that certaine prophane men and Schismatikes vvith drevve them selues to the bish of Rome who saith he hath none but certaine desperate wicked fellovves that stay vpon him making thē selues beleeue that the Bishops of Affricke haue lesse povver then the Bishops of Rome And in very deede he calleth not Stephen Cornelius bishops of Rome other thē brethren cōpanions handleth Stephen rudely enough in manye places To be short a litle after his death the church of Affricke decreed in the councill of Carthage that none should be called the prince or chiefe of ministers or the first Bishoppe but onely according to the dignitie of Cities the Bishoppe of the first See. Irenee very liuely reproueth Victor the Bishop of Rome who through a certaine shamelesse ambition had excommunicated the Churches of Asia for disagreeing about the Passeouer The Ministers saith he vvhich haue helde the eldershippe of the Church ouer vvhich thou novv doest gouerne Anicetus Pius Higinus c. haue not done as thou hast done neither they also vvhich vvere vvith them Tertullian who otherwise is wont to attribute verye much to Saint Peter scorneth the Bishop of Rome his great ambition which then began to shew it selfe albeit in a certaine place he maketh a long narration of the praises of the Church of Rome yet he teacheth not neither neere nor farre of that which is the principall to wit that it was the infallible seat of the holy Ghost by Peters successiō And yet these are for all that the very firste of all antiquitie and in whose time the Church of Christ more florished then at any time In the time of Constātine as the church had more liberty so it had also more ambition then Bishops begā first to think on miters that before time thought nothing els but to be martyrs That same famous Council of Nice was then called together by Constantine the Emperour to the ende to decide the matter of Arrius The B. of Romes deputies were there but they sate onely in the fourth place Yea one decree was there made by which certaine limits were attributed to euerie patriarke ouer which the Canon gaue them equall authority which the Bishop of Rome was wont to haue ouer the neighbour Churches of his citie They went about by infinite meanes to corrupt the canons of this councill as the histories do witnesse vnto vs But Cusan the Cardinal alledging this Councill acknowledgeth the trueth in these words By this we see saith he how much authoritie the Pope hath gotten in our time against the sacred auncient constitutions and altogether through the lēgth of time and custome of a slauish subiectionall obedience And yet in meane time Iulius with standeth it not neither doe his Legates alledge to the fathers of the Councill their Tibi dabo I will giue vnto thee nor their Pasce oues meas Feed my sheep for as yet they were not studyed so deeply therin but they rested onely in the ordinance of the Councill which afterwardes was confirmed by the Councils of Antioche and of Constantinople And this was about the time that they woulde deuise the donation of Constantine to pope Syluester confuted by so many learned men so long time agoe that none but such as are ignorant will beleeue it But if they will beleeue the original which is kept in Vaticā in the popes library in goldē letters let thē also beleeue these words which are written added in the end Quam fabulā longi tēporis mēdacia finxit that is to say in the proper words of ill latine This is a fable which an old lye hath forged Or if they wil therin beleeue the legend of Pope Syluester then let them also beleeue that which it sayeth that then was hearde a voyce from heauen saying Hodie effusum est venenum in Ecclesiam that is to say At this day poyson is shedde into the middest of the Church In the first and seconde Councill of Ephesus Cyrillus and Dioscorus Patriarches of Alexandria did gouerne there though the Bishoppe of Rome there had his deputies And it forceth not to saye that the seconde was not lawfull For this can not be knowen but by the yssue but it sufficeth that in the beginning and then when men thought that it was verye lawfull and that in such a time as the ceremonies were kept there Leo the Bishoppe of Rome neyther his deputies did not there striue for the chiefe place because they thought it to haue no good grounde In the Councill of Chalcedon

by the Scriptures which were giuen vnto vs by the holie Ghost reiecting whatsoeuer is not agreeable to them as enemie to our saluation And against all heretikes he demaundeth that onely the Scripture be vmpire Chrysostom calleth it the most exact balaunce the squire the rule and iudge of all doctrine And in a certayne other place the same sayeth that the Scripture is the accomplishment of the holie Ghost as Christ is of the lawe and that without it we may not alledge the spirite Irence calleth it the foundation and pillar of our faith Tertullian sayeth Take from heretikes the bookes of Ethnikes and winne so much of them that they will rest vpon the Scriptures and they can not stande Also let the shoppe of Hermogenes shewe that it is written if they cannot let them feare the curse which is appoynted for them that adde to or diminishe To bee short they all dryue to this poynt that to examine all doctrine to maintayne the true to vanquishe the false we must haue no other touchstone no other Buckler or sworde but this And this was the cause in the thirde Councill of Carthage it was forbidden to read any thing in the Church but the Canonicall Scriptures And the Imperiall lawe distinguisheth Catholikes from heretikes by the Apostolicall and Euangelicall doctrine and Constantine the great the first Christian Emperour hauing assembled that famous Councill of Nicee wherein there were three hundreth and eyghtene Fathers to dispute agaynst the heresie of Arrius he prescribed them this rule We haue sayeth he the bookes of the Euangelistes Apostles and Prophetes which instruct vs in the holie lawe By these bookes then it behooueth vs to resolue all doubtes and questions And this rule also was there so exactly kept that one Minister alone Paphnutius by name alleadging the Scripture made all the rest to chaunge their opinion who without any grounde of the Scripture for certayne politike and humane considerations were readie to haue abolished the marriage of Ministers To be shorte Gerson and Panormitane euen when the Popes thunderbolts and lyghtning excommunications were most hotte durst yet say and write that one poore lay man alleadging a text of the olde or newe Testament ought to be preferred before the Pope yea and before a generall Councill erring through ignorance or of malice against the text of Gods worde which ought to bee thought no more straunge then if they had sayde that the worde of God alone hath more wayght then all the Doctors of the worlde together who are nothing else with all their knowledge but ignorance and vanitie I haue bene long in this poynt because nowe a dayes they alwayes speake vnto vs of the fathers and I pray the readers to take a little payne to reade the places themselues because they shall finde them yet more playne and full then the desire that I haue to be short suffereth me to write at large With Isaie the Prophete therefore we call our aduersaries to the Lawe with Abraham to Moses and the Prophetes with Christ to the Scriptures with all the fathers and Christian Doctors to the olde and newe Testament If this Iudge then which heretofore hath decyded all cōtrouersies which hath bene so reuerently accepted euen of the greatest parte of heretikes themselues can not please thē either they must alledge great causes of refusall against it or else all the worlde will holde their doctrine more suspect then the doctrine of al the heretiks that euer were Their first cause of refusing the holie Scriptures is for that they are imperfect But I demaunde of them if they will require any other perfection then a doctrine sufficient to saluation If they content themselues to be saued Saint Iohn hath tolde vs that that which he hath written is sufficient to beleeue in Christ and to haue lyfe in his name and as concerning the things which are omitted S. Augustine pronounceth that he is rash which presumeth to ghesse what they are Saint Paul also sayth that the holy Scriptures are sufficient to make the man of God perfect and wise to saluation That they comprehende sufficiently the rule of faith and whatsoeuer belongeth to the seruice of god Beholde then sufficiently wherewithall to saue them If they wil not cōtent thēselues with saluation but call the Scriptures imperfect because they finde not there the determination of certaine curious questions which they handle in their schooles and yet they doe the Scriptures wrong for there they shall finde their condemnation Moreouer I demaunde of them from whence this imperfection can come Is this of Christ nay rather he is perfection it selfe And seeyng he came to accomplishe our saluation it must needes bee he of whome the Church must wayte for the reuelation of all things He then coulde beyng perfectly wise and woulde beyng perfectly good teache his Church whatsoeuer myght belong vnto her saluation Or is this imperfection of the Apostles but they receyued this woorde of lyfe from his mouth and after hee sent vnto them his holie Spirite to recorde it and to put them in minde thereof in such sorte that they preached saluation to all nations and as Ireneus sayeth that which they preached by mouth they haue left vnto vs by wryting to be the pillar and foundation of our fayth The whole faulte then commeth not that wayes it remayneth then that the whole imperfection bee in men who not fynding in the Scriptures their imperfections they esteeme it imperfect as they that haue swilled in the snowe waters from the mountaynes call those imperfect which haue not wyde and hanging throtes like themselues for that they haue not their superfluous imperfection We finde in the Scriptures the inuocation of one God alone by meanes of Iesus Christ alone but they would find there the inuocation of Saints We there finde that purgatorie cleansing is in the onely blood of Iesus Christ they woulde finde there that purgatorie which they haue taken out of Virgill and Plato We there finde one onely Mediator but they would finde as manie there as there are saints in their kalender They call these things imperfections in the Scripture which are rather so manie infections in their Church Furthermore I demaunde be it that a man thinke that there wanteth something who shall be so hardie after such a workeman to put to his hande to make it perfect If a man saye the Doctors why then quite contrarie finde it onely perfect in it as in a glasse they acknowledge the imperfections both of others and of themselues If they will bryng in the Church through her traditions why it is shee that hath taught vs to cut of by the bookes of this Canon all that we finde not therein and further shee is forbidden to serue God according to her traditions and commaunded to be a scholer of this word and we knowe that this is not the parte of a scholer to vsurpe aboue