Donatisme pag. 622 The Replyer put to the proofe of his ceremonies 614 The Replier tripped in his own net pag. 693 T. C. teacheth S. Augustine to speak pag. 609 The marke that the Replyer shoteth at 56 The drift of the Replier 315 T. C. forsaketh the Apostolical form in Election 193. 195 ¶ Telesphorus a good Bishop 6 2 ¶ Theodoret had gouernement of 800. churches 415. 472 Theodoret of Chrysostome 412 ¶ Thracia annexed to the Archbisshoprike of Constantinople 413 ¶ Of these wordes Take thou eate thou 600 ¶ Diuersitie of Tymes require a diuerse gouernement c. 174. c. ¶ Timothies authoritie 401 Timothie Bishop of Ephesus 404 c. 470. Timothie oft absent from Ephesus pag. 236 The iurisdiction that Timothie vsed in some respect ciuill 769 ¶ Titus Archbishop of Creta 325. 400. 431. 470. ¶ Titles of dignitie in ministers not Antichristian 353 Honorable Titles of Bishops 448 Men called by vndeserued Titles 70 71. Titles in the church vnder the lawe whereof God is not the expresse author 304 ¶ The othe of the fellowes of Trinitie Colledge in Cambridge 1. 235. Trinitie Colledge and the fellowes deliuered frō the slaunderous Replye 745 ¶ The maintenance of Truth as necessarie as the suppression of errours 496 ¶ It is not better to frame our ceremonies to Turkes than to papists pag. 471 V. ¶ Vanitie 351 ¶ Omne verum à spiritu Sancto est pag. 551. 552 ¶ Vicars or substitutes 681 ¶ Victor a good Bishop 510 ¶ Vix what it importeth 796 ¶ Vniuersitie landes stand on the same pinne with Bishops 452. ¶ Vse of things wickedly inuented pag. 273. c. Priuate vse of Idolatrous things forbidden 272 Common vse of Idolatrous things page 273 The vse and abuse of things indifferent 276 ¶ Vsurpe both in Ministring and preaching offend God 520 W ¶ VVa er cakes 596 ¶ VVatchmen and Sheapheards 220 237. ¶ The weake not offended with apparell 〈◊〉 In what sort of indifferent thinges we ought to respect the weake 258. ¶ VVhoremongers in the visible Church 1 ¶ VVickednesse of men causeth not lawes to be euill 1 4 ¶ VVidowes 6 ¶ VVine and Bread consecrated too Idols 275. 276 ¶ Froward wittes 481 ¶ VVhen a woman maye preach Christ. 50 The cause of the VVomans absence from the Church after her deliuerance 53 The VVomans vayle 53 ¶ Strife about wordes proper to q rell rs 5 ¶ VVhat it is to adde and to take away from the VVord 1 Difference betwixt the worshipping of the true God falsly and 〈◊〉 Gods 27 ¶ Mens writings read in the chur pag. 7 The occasion and circumstances of mens writings must bee considered 114. 292 Z ¶ Zuinfildians condemne reading pag. 252. 569. 71 ¶ The Zeale of the Replier 36 Preposterous Zeale 48 The Printer to the Readers I could not be but that in so great a volume some things should escape euen those that are diligent and carefull I especially considering the speedie dispatch and other circumstances notwithstanding if before you enter to reade this booke you will take the paynes to mende these faulces with your pen the rest being lighter will not greately stay your course in reading or otherwise alter the sense and meaning Fare you well Pag. 2. line 8. reade plainly Pag. 21. line 22. for priuately reade priu ly Pag. 50. line vlti for I speake not of their opinions reade I speake not of all their opinions Pag. 62. line 38 reade in these Pag. 67. line 37. for or reade for Pag. 78. line 34. reade and seeking helpe of the Egyptians Pag. 104. lin 22. for abiunde reade aliunde Pag. 124. line 45. reade Is homo Pag. 191. line 45. for worde reade wordes Pag. 244. line 13. reade in the euill day Pag. 252. lin 46. for any confession reade my confession pag. 253 lin 7. reade Chap. 1. pag. 254. line 13. reade chap. 1. and line 48. reade Chap. 2. pag. 304. in y ◠margēt reade wherof God pag. 349. line 29. for and reade as pag. 448. line 32. reade 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pag. 468. lin 46. for his own reade this one pa. 481. lin 32. for more reade moue pag. 508. lin 1. reade encomber the Answerer pag. 523. lin 25. reade conuentur pag. 536. line 20. for yll read it pag. 537. lin 42. for those read this pag. 541. line 21. for constraine read restreyne pag. 661. line 20. read thus election of ministers is no correctiō of vice neither yet is the deciding c. pag. 663. line 53. for there reade therefore pag. 665. in the margent for eternal reade externall pag 685. lin 6. reade the. 11. diuision pag. 708. line vit for rather reade either pag. 722. line vlt. adde this heaping vp of scriptures shewe me one place in this epistle yea in pag. 731. line 41. for seruice reade sorow pag. 803. lin 7. reade Gods worde pag. 806. line 4. reade of defiance salued pag. 810. line 41. reade fi ¶ To the Churche of Englande and all those that loue the truth in it T. C. vvisheth mercie and peace from God our Father and from our Lorde Iesus Christe AS our men doe more willingly go to warfare and fighte with greater courage agaynst straungers than agaynst their Countreymen so it is with me in this spirituall warfare For I woulde haue wished that this controuersie had beene with the Papistes or with ether if any can be more pestilent and professed e mes of the Churche for that should haue beene lesse griefe to write and more conuenient to perswade that which I desire For as the very name of an enimie dothe kindle the desire of fighting and styrreth vp the care of prepa ng the furniture for the warre So I can not tell howe it commeth to passe that the name of a brother aketh that courage and abateth that carefulnesse whiche sheuld be bestowed in defence of the truthe But seeing the truthe ought not to be forsaken for any mans cause ▪ I enforced my selfe considering that if the Lorde mighte lay to my charge that I was not for certayne considerations so readie as I ought to haue beene to publishe the truthe he mighte more iustly condemne me if beeing oppugned and slaundered by others I shoulde not according to that measure which he hath dealte vnto me and for my small habilitie defende it and delyuer it from the euill reporte that some endeuour to bring vpon it An Answere to the Epistle dedicated by T. C. to the Churche of Englande c. IT doth not appeare by the style and maner of writing vsed in this your booke that there remayneth any portion of suche naturall affection or brotherly loue in you as you would beare the world in hand and séeme to haue by these your wordes For if you should haue written against the veriest Papist in the world the vilest person the ignorantest dolt you could not haue vsed a more spitefull and malicious more slaunderous and reprochfull more contemptuous and disdaynfull kinde of
that a great parte of the people can not of knowledge tell whether he hath cursed them or blessed them whether he hath read in Latme or in Englishe all the whyche ryseth vpon the word s of ▪ the booke of seruice which are that the minister should stande in the accustomed place for therevpon the minister in saying Morning and Euening prayer sytteth in the Chauncel with hys backe to the people as thoughe he had some secret talke with God whych the people might not heare And herevpon it is likewise that after Morning prayer for saying another nūber of prayers he clymeth vp to the further end of the Chauncel runneth as farre from the people as the wall wyl let hym as though there were some variance betweene the people the minister or as though he were afrayde of some infection of plague in deede it renueth y e memorie of the Leuitical priesthoode which dyd withdrawe him selfe from the people into the place called the holyest place where he talked wyth God and offered for the sinns of the people Io. Whitgifte This nothing toucheth the order or substance of the booke and therefore no sufficient reason agaynst it if it were true But you héerein deale as you haue done in other matters that is corruptly and vntruely For you do not reporte the wordes of Corrupt dealing the booke concerning this matter as they be in déede and it is wonderfull and argueth great impadencie that you are not ashamed to reporte vntruely in so publike a cause The words of the booke be these The Morning and Euening prayer shall be vsed in the accustomed place of the Church Chappell or Chauncell excepte it shall be otherwise determined by the Ordinarie of the place And you leauing out all the rest say that the words of the booke of seruice are that the minister should stande in the accustomed place as though it bounde him of necessitie to the Chauncell which is nothing so But you Errours and isorder maynteyned by falsifying must be borne with your errours and disorders can not otherwise be maynteyned but by falsifying I thinke there are but fewe Churches in Englande where the Bi shops haue not taken a very good order for the place of prayer if any Bishop haue neglected it the fault is in the Bishop not in the booke But still I must desire the Reader to note the weightinesse of the reasons where by you goe about to deface the booke of common prayer Chap. 1. the. 19. Diuision T. C. Pag. 105. Sect. 2. Likewyse or marriage he commeth backe agayne into the body of the Churche and for baptisme vnto the Churche doore what comelynesse what decencie what edifying is thys Decencie I saye in running and trudging from place to place edifying in standing in that place and a ter that sorte where he can worst be hearde and vnderstanded S. Luke sheweth that in the 〈◊〉 Churche bothe the prayers and preachings and the whole exercise of religion was done otherwyse For he sheweth howe S. Peter sytting amongest the rest to the ende he myghte be the better heard rose and not that onely but that he stoode in the middest of the people that hys voyce mighte as muche as mighte be come indifferently to all theyr ear s and so standing bothe 〈◊〉 and preached Nowe if it be sayde for the Chapters and Letanie there is commaundement giuen th t they should be read in the body of the Church in deede it is true and thereof is easily perceyued thys disorder which is in saying the rest of the prayers partly in the hither end partly in y e urther end of the Chauncel for eeing that those are read in the body of the Church that the people may both heare vnderst nd what is read what should be the cause why the rest should be read further of Unlesse it be that eyther those thyngs are not to be hearde of them or at the least not so necessarie for them to be heard as the other whych are recited in the body or middest of the Churche And if it be further sayde that the booke leaueth that to the discretion of the Ordinarie and that he may reforme it if there be any thyng amisse then it is easily answered agayne that besides that it is agaynst reason that the commoditie and edifying of the Churche should depende vpon the pleasure of one man so that vpon hys eyther good or euill aduyse discretion it should be well or euill with the Church Besydes thys I sa we s e by experience of the disorders which ar in many Churches and Dioceses in thys behalfe howe that if it were lawfull to commit such authoritie vnto one man yet that it is not safe so to doe considering that they haue so euill q tten them selues in their charges and that in a matter the inconuenience whereof is so easily seene and so easily reformed there is notwithstanding so great and so generall an abuse Io. Whitgifte These be passing weyghtie arguments to ouerthrowe the booke and come from a Weighty reasons agaynst the booke déepe and profounde iudgemente If I shoulde vse the lyke you woulde wype them away with scoffing The booke appoynteth that the persons to be married shall come into the body of the Churche with their f iendes and neighbours there to be married and what faulte can you finde in this Is not the middest of the Churche the moste méete place for suche a matter The booke speaketh neyther of the comming backe of the minister nor his going forwarde these be but your iestes and yet muste he goe both backwarde and forwarde if he wil eyther come into the Church or go out of it For baptisme y e booke appoynteth no place but bicause there is no iust cause knowne why the fon e should be remoued therefore the minister dothe stande where that is placed whiche is somewhere in one place somewhere in another for I know diuers plac s where it is in the middest of the Churche some place where it is in the nethermost parte I knowe no place where it standeth at the Churche doore And therfore in saying that for baptisme the minister goeth to the Churche doore you doe but counterfeyte No man denieth but that bothe praying and preaching c. ought to be in that place where it may be best heard of all and therefore the booke dothe prudently leaue it to the discretion of the Bishop But the middest is not the fittest place for that purpose He that standeth in the middest of the Churche hathe some behynde him some before him and some of eche syde of him those whiche be behinde or on the sides can not so well heare as those that be before as experience teacheth in Sermons at the Spittle at the Crosse in Paules and other places Wherefore in my opinion that place in the Churche is moste fittest bothe for praying and preaching where the minister may haue the people before him except the
authoritie he woulde be loth to reiecte I am sure least he shoulde lose the opinion of his studiousnesse of the olde writers which he hunteth so diligently after in this booke wherof he maketh the authors of the Admonitiō so great contemners And it is not hard to shew the same in twentie places more as in the tenth of S. Math. and S. Luke where as there are diuers things not to be followed of the ministers now other things indifferent to be followed so are there also other things that be as well commaunded to all the ministers that nowe are as they were then eyther to the. 12. or 70. disciples Io. Whitgifte And of those circumstances wherof there is no comm̄aundement howe proue you whiche be indifferent whych be vnlawful or not conueniēt to be followed which necessary why is it not as necessarie by this example of Iohn that they shoulde be baptized in Ioroane or that they shoulde confesse their synnes before they be baptized as it is that they shoulde bée publikely baptised If you take vppon you to interprete without authoritie and grounde ofscripture it is méete that you should shew verie good and substanciall reason I demaunde the lyke touching the places alleadged out of the Acts where you reteyn what you list refuse what you list alter as you list as though you were lorde ouer the Scripture and had omnia iura tam diuina quà m humana in scrinio pectoris all lawes as wel diuine as humane in the coffer of your breast lyke to the Pope But to these places of the Actes I haue answered in their due place Your s ffes make not your cause one whit the better Of twentie places you recite not one And of diuers things some indifferent some not to be followed other some comaunded to all ministers spoken to the twelue or scuentie disciples in the. 10. of Matthew and Luke you name none speaking without ground or reason is but pratling I knowe that in one action there be diuers circumstances of diuers conditions and natures but if any of them be necessarie at all tymes to be obseiued the Necessarie cir cumstāces are commaunded same is conteyned in some commaundement in the Scriptures and therfore well sayth Zuinglius that an argument à facto ad ius is then strong when as we are able to shewe that that whiche is doone is done according to some rule or commaundement Now if you can shew me either rule or commaundement in scripture that vppon no occasion we may preache or baptise in priuate families I yelde vnto you What examples doe proue without commaundement But if you can not this doe your examples proue what was then done and what in the lyke cause may be doone nowe but they make not any generall and perpetuall rule Nowe touchyng these and suche lyke circumstances in my opinion M Zuinglius in his booke de baptismo maketh a full resolution which may satisfye any reasonable Zuinglius man His wordes be these There is here three errours about circumstances that is the elementes of the worlde The first is of the tyme for they thoughte that baptisme was not rightly administred except it were in the fyrst day for the tyme is of no greate weight so that we take diligent heed of this that none rashly or negligently differre it longer than is conuenient for by this occasion it may come to passe that the baptisme of children might be taken away An other errour is touching the circūstance of the person for they thought that baptisme could not be administred of no other than of a priest when as notwithstanding euery man may minister it euen a woman if necessitie require the thirde errour is in the circumstance of the place bicause it is not necessarie that the insant shoulde only be baptized in the Churche Chap. 4. the. 3. Diuision Ansvvero to the Admonition Pag. 92. Sect. 3. 4. Baptisme was ministred in Cornelius house Actes 10. The place is not of the substance of the sacramentes To the. 1. Cor. II. it is answered before Surely this church of Englande Baptisme an house dothe not permit the sacramentes to be ministred in priuate places except there be a congregation and then not vsually but only in certaine cases T. C. Pag. 112. Sect. 1. An other reason he addeth there that S. Peter baptized in Cornelius house But M. Doctor maketh not the best choyse of his arguments For S. Paules baptizing in the house of the Iayler had bene more fit for him for vnto his place it may be easyly answered that Cornelius hauing so greate a familie as it is lyke he had and besydes that dyuers souldiours vnderneathe him and further his frendes and his acquayntance whiche he had called had a competente number and as many as would make a congregation and as could co mmodiously be preached vnto in one place But the answere to bothe these examples and other such lyke as that S. Paule baptized in the house of Stephana is easy For there being persecutions at that tyme so that it was not safe neyther for the minister nor for the people to be seene it was meete that they shoulde doe it in houses whiche otherwyse they would haue done in open places and then those houses whiche receyue the congregation are not as I haue shewed for the time to be counted priuate houses and further in places where the gospell hath not bene receyued nor no churche gathered but one onely householde embracing the Gospel I say in suche a case and especially in the tyme of persecution where shoulde the Ministers preache or minister the Sacramentes more conueniently than in that house where those professours of the gospell be nowe to drawe this into our churches which may safely come into open places and where the churche and congregation standeth of diuers houscholdes is a token of greate want of iudgement in shuffelyng those things together whyche for the great diuersitie of their natures will not be myngled Io. Whitgifte The example of Peters baptizing in Cornelius house is sufficient to proue that then it was lawful to baptize in priuate families the example of Paul baptizyng the iaylour and his familie proueth the same But it ministreth a more readie answere to a quareller bicause Paul then being prisoner had not such libertie to make cheise of his place as Peter had But they are both verie fit examples for my purpose the bignesse of Cornelius familie or the smalnesse is not materiall to this question for we speake of the place not of the persons And whereas you say that in Cornelius house there was a competent number and as many as would make a congregation I answer that so it is with vs when baptisme is ministred in priuate families for wheresoeuer Math. 18 two or three be gathered together in the name of Christ there is a congregation To your seconde answere of the difference of tyme bicause that was in tyme of
authoritie to take héede of them Let men apply them as they sée cause and haue experience there can be no hurte in that it shall make them the more circumspect and arme them agaynst the hypocriste of diuers Howe the authors of both the Admonitions do agree with the Anabaptistes in these forenamed practises I haue declared in my answere to your Reply You falsifie my wordes when you affyrme that I say they agree wyth the Anabaptists in all the forenamed practises and qualities for I haue not this vniuersall signe all if they agrée with them in many they are to be suspected I thinke the Anabaptistes themselues as they haue diuers and seuerall opinions in doctrine so had they also sundrie qualities concerning lyfe and conuersation and yet some there are which be common to them all I know that all the estates and orders of this Realitie hate Anabaptisme I require not your promyse for that matter which you offer vnto me Satis pro imperio I know their detestation of that heresie and therefore I am holde to open these practises qualities vnto them least they may by some mens hypocrisie and close dealing be deceiued My words and writings be publike my speaches plaine and therefore if I sting it is openly inoughe The priuie hissers and stingers he those that secretelye smyte theyr neighbour and hisse at them in their absence at tables and in corners and sting them behinde their backes whē they are not present to answere for themselues Such adders and Scorpions swarme among you Io. Whitgifte An exhortation c. Pag. 5. Sect. 6. Moreouer it may please you to consider the conditions practises of the Donatists who deuided them selues frō the congregation Donatistes and had their peculiar Churches or rather conuenticles in Africa They taughte also that all other Churches were spotted and impure bycause of their Ministers Finally that there ought to be no compulsion vsed in matters of Religion and fayth and that none should be punished for their conscience T. C. Page 7. Sect. 4. Nowe you carie vs from the Anabaptistes in Europe to the Donatistes in Affricke and you will paynte vs wyth their colours but you want the oyle of truth or 〈◊〉 of truth to cause your colours to cleaue and to endure The Lorde be praysed that your breath although it be 〈◊〉 anke yet it is not so strong y t it is able eyther to turne vs or chaunge vs into what formes it pleaseth you I shall desire the reader to loke Theodoret lib. 4. de fabulis Haereticorum Augustin ad quod-uult-Deum and in his firste and second bookes agaynst 〈◊〉 Letters where he shall fynde of these heretikes that by comparing them wyth these to whome M. Doctor lyk eth them the smoke of this accusation mighte the better appeare For these sclaunders are not worthe th answering To this diuision from the Churches and to your supposed conuenticles I haue answered They taught that there were no true Churches but in Affrica we teache nothing lesse than that there is no true Churche but in Englande If the Churches be considered in the partes whether Minister or people there is none pure and vnspotted and this is the faythe of the true Churche and not of the Donatistes if it be considered in the whole and generall gouernment and outwarde pollicie of it it may be pure and vnspotted for any thing I knowe if men would laboure to purge it The Donatists vaunted themselues to be exempted from sinn and what lykelyhoode is there betwene any assertion of the authors of the Admonition and this fansie of the Donatistes To the last poynt of no compulsion to be vsed in matters of Religion denying it to be true I referre the further answere to an other place Io. Whitgifte This that I haue set downe of the Donatistes is all true neyther can you disproue one word of it I write so much of their practises as he correspondent to the doings The admonitors compared with the Donatistes of the Authors of the Admonition The Donatistes deuided th mselues from the co gregation and had peculiar Churches or rather conuenticles in Affrica These also deuide themselues from the Churche And although they tye not the Churche of Christ to any one corner yet haue they their seuerall Churches and secrete meetings The 〈◊〉 made thys their excuse why they departed from other Churches bycause they were not pure and vnspotted and their ministers of euill life These men for the lyke causes separat themselues from the Churche also The Donatistes woulde haue no 〈◊〉 vsed in 〈◊〉 of Religion and fayth These men in effecte be lykewise mynded for they woulde haue no 〈◊〉 punishement vsed which may appeare y that which is written in the second 〈◊〉 fol. 57. where they saye that it 〈◊〉 not to make any lawes 〈◊〉 m ere 〈◊〉 bycause the gouernment of the Second Admoni fol. 57. Churche is 〈◊〉 per 〈◊〉 the worde and fol. 56. and in 〈◊〉 plates else they speake to the lyke purpose whereof occasion will be g uen hereafter better to consider Augustine in his 〈◊〉 de haeresibus ad quod-vult 〈◊〉 heweth that some of the Donatistes Aug. de baeresib ad quod-vult were also Arians but not all 〈◊〉 some of them were Circumcellions of which secte 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 in the place by you cyted But what is all 〈◊〉 to ▪ Lib. 4 de fab Haeret. the 〈◊〉 speake ot of their opinions nor of all theyr conditions but of such onely wherein these that separate them selues in oure dayes séeme to agrée wyth them Similia as you knowe agrée not in all poyntes it is sufficient if they doe in those things in quibus 〈◊〉 Neyther doe I anye otherwyse reporte of them than M. Caluine him selfe doth in his booke against the Anabaptistes and Augustine with others that write of them Surely neyther in the whole nor in parte can the Churche be vnspotted in this world no not in the outwarde pollicie and gouernment of it neyther doe I thinke that you are able to shewe any examples of suche Puritie we haue to the contrarie euen in the Apostolicall Churches in the Apostles tyme as the Churche of Corinth and of the Galatians Maister Caluine in hys booke aduersus Anabaptistas is directly against you and in déede I thinke that you are not able to shewe one learned writer of your opinion in this poynt Io. Whitgifte An exhortation c. Pag. 5. Sect. 7. To conclude these men flatly ioyne with the Papistes and by the selfe same assertions bende their force against this Churche of Englande T C. Pag. 7. Sect. vlt. Salomon sayth that the beginnyng of the ordes of an vnwise man is folyshnesse b t the Ecclef 10. ver 13. latter ende of them is mere madnesse euen so it 〈◊〉 oute by you for whilest you suffer your selfe to be caryed headlong of your affections you hurle you knowe not what nor at whome whatsoeuer commeth firste to
adde ministeries they may also take away for those both belong to one authoritie (b) The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but they can not take away those ministeries that God hath placed in his Churche therefore they cannot adde to those that are placed in the Churche And this foundation I thought first to lay or euer I entred into M. Doctours not reasons but authorities not of God but of men in confuting of which there will fall forth also other arguments against both these offices of Archbyshop and Archdeacon Io. Whitgifte Your whole booke is for the moste parte buylded vpon that false founded argument The Replie grounded vpō the petition of the principle that is called Petitio principij For this will not be graunted vnto you which you haue so oftentimes repeated and wherevpon all your arguments are grounded that to appoynt Archbyshops or Archdeacons is to appoynt a new ministery It is as I tolde you before but to kéepe an order in the ministery and in the Churche and to execute that office of gouernment which the Apostles themselues did When Hierome sayde That for the auoyding of Schismes the ministers appoynted one among themselues to gouerne the rest Did he meane that they instituted a new ministerie A man may sée by this how vnable you are to defend your cause seing you are enforced to frame principles vnto your selfe agaynst the which you may reason that the ignorant reader may thinke your quarell to be iuste But nowe to your argument The Maior is not true for men may adde ministeries to those that be and breake not the will and commaundement of God bicause they may be helpes and furtheraunces to those ministeries that God hath appoynted But he can not take away such ministeries as God hath placed in his Churche to be perpetuall without breache of his will and commaundement Moreouer besides those ministeries that God hath appoynted in his woorde as necessary at all times there may be some added that be cōuenient for some times and yet the Churche that hath authoritie to adde these hath not the lyke authoritie to take awaye the other So that your Maior lacketh proofe Your Minor also is ambiguous for man can not take away those ministeries that God hath appoynted to be perpetuall in the Churche but he may take away those that be but temporall as occasion serueth If your foūdation be no sounder than this that you haue hitherto layde surely your buylding cannot long stande and M. Doctors authorities may well ynough encounter with all your reasons That the names of Metropolitane Archbishop c. be not Antichristian Chap. 2. the. 1. Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 65. Sect. 1. Firste therefore I proue that the names of Metropolitane and The antiquitie of Archbishops Archbishop c. be not Antichristian names that is names inuented by Antichrist but most aūciēt yea that they were in the Church lōg before the Gospell was publiquely embraced by any Prince or in any kingdome Polidore Virgil lib. 4. De inuentoribus rerum Cap. 12. saith that Clement in his boke entituled Compēdiarium Christianae religionis testifieth that the Apostle Peter did in euery Prouince appoynt one Archbyshop whom all other Byshops of the same prouince shoulde obey He sayth also that the same Archbishop was called Primas Patriarcha and Metropolitanus Peter was not Antichrist Ergo the name of an Archbishop is no Antichristian name T. C. Pag. 66. Sect. 4. 5. 6. 7. Pag. 67. Sect. 1. 2. Now I will come to the examining of your witnesses whereof some of them are so bored in the eares and branded in their foreheades that no man neede to feare any credite they shall gette before any iudge wheresoeuer or before whom soeuer they come but in the Romish courte and the Papistes onely excepted For to let go Polidore Uirgile bycause whatsoeuer he sayth he sayth of the credite of another let vs come to Clement which is the author of this you speake And what is he Is there any so blind that knoweth not that this was nothing lesse than Clement of whom S. Paule speaketh and which some thinke was the first Bishop of Rome ordeined by Peter and Phil. 4. Tertul. de praescript aduers. haeret not rather a wicked helhounde into whome the Lorde had sent Satan to be a lying spirite in his mouth to deceiue them for their vnthankful receyuing of the gospell And he must witnesse for the Archbishop a worthie witnesse For as all that Popish Hierarchie came out of the bottomlesse pit of hell so to vpholde the Archbishop the necke of it wherevpon the Romish monster standeth are raysed vp from hell bastards Clemens and Anacletus and indeede as it may appeare the very naturall sonnes of Satan and the sworne souldiours of Antichrist A man would haue thought that the Bishop of Salisburie M. Iuel had so pulled of the painting of the face of this Clement that all good men woulde haue had him in detestation so farre of would they haue bene to haue alledged out of him to proue any thing that is in controuersie The Bishop alledgeth both Eusebius and S. Hierome to proue that none of those woorkes In the replie to M. Hard. which go in his name are his and although the proofes be strong which the Bishop vseth beeing the witnesse of vnsuspected witnesses yet bicause the law although it allow two witnesses notwithstanding doth like the better of three I will set downe here also Ireneus which was a great while before them both and followed hard after the time of the true and vncounterfeyte Clement Li. 3. cap. 3. and therefore coulde best tell of him and of his wrytings and yet he maketh mention but of one Epistle which vpō occasion amongst the Corinthians he wrote to them Indeed in an other place of that booke he sheweth that it is verie probable that Clementalso eyther wrote or turned the Epistle to the Hebrues Nowe if that Epistle to the Counthes were extant we shoulde easily see by comparing those that are nowe in his name wyth that what a misshapen thing this is And if so be that Ireneus coniecture be good that Clement was the authour or interpreter of the Epstle to the Hebrues then what horrible iniurie is done to the holy Ghost while the same is supposed the wryter of thys booke to the Hebrues which is the authour of suche beggerie as thys Clement brought into the worlde And I pray you do you holde that it is the true Christian religion which that booke conteyneth Could none of these considerations driue you from the testimonie of this Clement It goeth verie harde with the Archbishop when these Clements and Anacletusses must be brought to vnderprop him But what if there be no such booke as this is which you name when you say in his booke intituled Compendiarium religionis Christianae it is like you know not him nor what he saith when you cannot tell so much as his name
Iewes is but a mere coniecture if there had bene any such office in the law it would haue bene specified in one place or other of the old Testament Touching your eldership wée shall sée what you haue to say for it in place I will not trouble my selfe and the reader with bye matters not incident to this question And yet I would gladly learne of you in what portion of the lawe your presbyterie is commaunded or prescribed for I tolde you before out of M. Caluine that it was appoynted after the returne of the Iewes from the captiuitie of Babylon Your reason why there should be no orders or ceremonies taken from the Gentiles is not sufficient for it is a negatiue reason ab authoritate But to speake of that matter is now from the purpose bycause I haue denied these offices to be taken from the Gentiles Chap. 2. the seuenth Diuision T. C. Pag. 68. Sect. 4. B t what if there were no such offices among the Gentiles and Paganes as Archiflamine and Protoflamines whereof before I shew the coniectures which I haue I must giue the gentle reader to vnderstand that I am not ignorant that there are diuerse which say there were such offices among the Gentiles and namely here in England that there were 25. Flamines and three Archiflamines wherof were made three Archbishops of London Canterbury and Yorke and. 25. Byshops as Platine hath in the chapter E eutherius And Ga frydus Monemutensis in his second booke and first chapter And s I thinke Gildas also and Lumbard in his fourth booke speaketh of it as a generall thing that was in all places where Paganisme was But if so be that the religion of other Paganes did follow and was like vnto that of the Romaynes which is very probable they being then the rulers of the whole worlde in a manner vnto whose example all men do lightly conforme themselues euen without commaundement then there is greate lykelyhood there were no such Archiflamines or Protoflamines out of Tullie which sheweth that there were among the Romaines diuerse kindes of Priestes whereof some were called Flamines of a seuerall attire which they ware alwayes on there heads other Pontifices and a third sorte were called Salij and the chiefe of those Flamines was called Flamen dialis who was al 's distinguished from the reste by a white hatte but of any Archiflamines or Protoflamines he maketh no mention at al and therefore it is lyke that there was neuer any such office amongst the Paganes Io. Whitgifte Whether there were such offices among the Gentiles or no the matter is not great nor woorthie of deciding But that there were such it is manifest if any credite is to be giuen to so many Histories and wryters bothe Eccles asticall and prophane Archiflamin not onely those whom you haue reported but Gratian Polydore and others But as a sufficient confutation of all this that you haue here written and as an argument of your vnskilfulnesse in stories I will set downe the woordes of Master Foxe Tom. 1. Pag. 146. which be these Lette vs returne to Eleutherius the good byshop who M. Foxe tom 1. fol. 146. hearing the requeste of the King and gladde to see the godly towardnesse of his well disposed minde sendeth him certayne teachers and preachers called Fugatius or by some Fagamus and Damianus or Dimianus which conuerted first the King and people of Britayne and baptised them with the baptisme and sacrament of Christes fayth The Temples of Idolatrie and other monuments of Gentilitie they subuerted conuerting the people from their diuerse and many Goddes to serue one liuing God Thus true religion with sincere fayth increasing superstition decayed with all rites of Idolatrie There were then in Britayne 28. head Priestes which they called Flamines and three Archpriestes among them which were called Archiflamines hauing the ouersight of their manners as iudges ouer the reste These 28. Flamines they turned to 28. Bishops and the three Archiflamines to three Archbyshops hauing then their eates in three principall Cities of the realme that is in London in Yorke and in Glamorgantia videlicet in vrbe legionum by VVales Your coniecture therefore is but vayne and cannot counteruayle so many witnesses Moreouer your argument is negatiue from humane authoritie for you argue that there were no Archiflamines among the Paganes bycause Tullie maketh no mention of them and therefore of no credite Besides why might not the Grecians call those Archiflamines whom Tullie called Flamines diales But the matter is not woorthie the labour and therefore thus briefly to haue answered it shall suffice o ly I would haue the Reader by the way to note the antiquitie of Archbishops here in England euen from the first beginning of the publike profession of Christiani e Archbyshops in England An. Do. 180. which was Anno. 180. or there about Chap. 2. the. 8. Diuision T. C. Pag. 68. Sect. 5. And if there were I haue shewed how wicked it is to say that Peter framed the ministerie of the Gospell by it Now let it be seene of all men how strongly you haue concluded that the names of Archbyshops are not Antichristian when as it is most certayne that he was a piller of Antichrist vpon whom your reason is grounded Io. Whitgifte Though it be certayne that Peter framed not the ministerie of the gospell by any custome of the Paganes yet y ur arguments are of no force to proue that he did not place ministers of the gospell where there were before priests of the Paganes call them by what other name you will or that in the chie Cities he placed not such as might direct and gouerne the rest seing it is the consent of all wryters that the Apostles when they had planted Churches did place Bishops and other ministers in the Churches which were planted Whether he were a piller or no of Antichrist by whom I haue hitherto proued the names of Archbyshops not to be Antichristian I leaue it to the learned to iudge f you meane Clement of whom Polidore doth borrowe his report it is euident that Polidore meaneth that Clement that was one of the first Bishops of Rome who was no piller of Antichrist but a godly Bishop Yf you meane Polidore himselfe vpon whose credite I take the report then surely h wsoeuer in diuerse poynts o Papism he erred yet is he one that hath greatly detected and opened their supers itions and whose authoritie neyther your selfe nor any other learned man in many things will ref se. But if all this were true that you say yet may we take reportes of antiquities Repor es of antiquitie may be taken from infi ls euen from Turkes Paganes Papistes or ls must we condemne the most parte of Histories Chap. 2 the ninth Diuision Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 65. Sect. 2. Volusianus Bishop of Carthage who liued Anno Do. 865. in one 〈◊〉 of his Epistles which he write to Nicholas
straight a foote in it with an vniuersall hazarde of their goods and lyues that we shall not escape vnlesse we repent speedily of our coldnesse and halting in religion and vnwillingnesse I will not say to hazarde to put our lyues in daunger but not to leese some of our wealth and honour for the obteyning of a through reformation of the Church and aduauncement of the glory of the Lorde Finally he would rather haue put vs in remembrance of the sermon which our sauiour Christ Luk. 13. maketh where he sheweth that those cities are not alwayes the greatest sinners or those whome God is most angry with which haue the heauiest iudgements executed vpon them but that therby the Lord calleth vs to repentance otherwise that we shall likewise perishe This had beene more fit for our estate to haue beene sayde than to haue after a sort (*) God roote out of you this malicious spirite which deliceth in slaunders insulted vpon the afflicted and daubed vp our eyes that we should not see our miserie and our nakednesse Io. Whitgifte I haue sayde truely that we are not bounde to their examples I doe not denie No Churche may chalenge to be a patern necessarie to be followed but that examples may be followed and one ought to followe an other in that which is good and conuenient But I haue shewed before that one Churche is not bound of necessitie in all things to followe an other onely the Church of Rome is so arrogant and proude as to chalenge that prerogatiue I haue great cause to expostulate with you for this your vnchristian vnbrotherly and most vniust handling of me For where or in what words doe I pinche at their reformation Wherein doe I vse any insultation vpon the afflicted and agaynst them is this to pinche at them or to insult agaynst them to wishe that touching religion they were in that state and condition that Englande is to wish that vnto them that they grone for themselues Surely fleshe and bloud will hardely suffer me to put vp this iniurie But I am taught patience I thanke God and the Lorde forgiue you roote out that roote of bitternesse that is so déepe in your heart Admonition And heere to ende we desire al to suppose that we haue not attempted this enterprise for vayne glory gayne preferment or any other worldly respect Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 139. Sect. 1. I would to God you were as free from vayne glory ambition and malice and other sinister affections as you would seeme to be but no indifferent man reading your booke will so thinke of you for besides the opprobrious and vnseemely termes you vse towardes your superiours your Admonition smelleth altogither of popularitie and vayne glory Admonition Neyther yet iudging our selues so exactly to haue set out the state of the Churche reformed as that nothing more could be added or a more perfect forme and order drawne for that were great presumption to arrogate so muche vnto our selues seeing that as we are but weake and simple soules so God hath raysed vp men of profounde iudgement and notable learning Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 139. Sect 3. And yet in the beginning of your booke you call it a true platforme of a Churche reformed and I dare saye you thinke it to be as perfect a forme of a Church as al the best learned godlyest men in the worlde could frame for it is well knowne that men of your disposition thinke commonly as well of them selues as they doe of Men thinke too well of themselues any man else and better too But we graunt vnto you that you are so farre from setting downe a perfect state of a Churche reformed that you maye rather be called confounders and deformers than buylders and reformers Admonition But therby to declare our good wils towards the setting forth of Gods glory and the building vp of his Church accounting this as it were but an entrance into further matter hoping that our God who hath in vs begon this good worke will not onely in time hereafter make vs strong and able to goe forwarde therein but also moue other vpon whome he hath bestowed greater measure of his giftes and graces to labour more thorowly and fully in the same Ansvvere to the Admonition Pag. 140. God graunt that you maye become buylders and not destroyers I thinke in deede you haue but begonne I knowe there is other Suspected opinions behinde opinions among you whiche be not yet commonly knowne and truely I doubt that you will neuer ende but from tyme to tyme coyne newe deuises to trouble the Church vntill you haue brought that heuy plague of God vpō vs which the like kind of mē through their schismes and heresies haue brought vpon all those places almost where any of the Apostles preached and where the Gospell Domesticall dissention for runner of destruction ▪ was first planted and commonly before ruine and destruction commeth inwarde discorde and domesticall dissention The Lorde make vs thankfull for the puritie of his Gospell that we by his mercy enioy the Lorde roote out schismes and factions from among vs and eyther conuerte or confounde the authors of them The Lorde of his singular goodnesse continue our gracious Queene Elizabeth vnto vs and giue vs faythfull and obedient hearts to his worde and to hir Maiestie Amen T. C. Pag. 156. Sect. 1. In all the rest M. Doctor hath nothing but wordes of reproche agaynst the authors of the Admonition and calling styll as his maner is for more punishment for them which I will not bestowe the answere of Io. Whitgifte And to this ende haue I héere set my wordes downe that the Reader may vnderstande what wordes of reproche those be that you charge me with but seeing it will not please you to bestowe the answere of them I shall also be content to spare so muche labour Admonition Where as immediately after the last Parliament holden at Westminster begon in Anno. 1570. and ended Anno. 1571. the ministers of Gods holy worde and sacraments were called before hir Maiesties highe Commissioners and enforced to subscribe vnto the Articles if they would keepe their places and liuings and some for refusing to subscribe were vnbrotherly and vncharitably entreated and from their offices and places remoued May it please therfore this honorable and high Court of Parliament in consideration of the premises to take a view of suche causes as then dyd withholde and nowe dothe the foresayde Ministers from subscribing and consenting vnto those foresayde Articles by way of purgation to discharge themselues of all disobedience towards the Churche of God and their Soueraigne and by way of moste humble entreatie for the remouing away and vtter abolishing of all suche corruptions and abuses as withhelde them through which this long time brethren haue bin at vnnaturall warre and strife among them selues to the hinderance of the gospell to the ioy of the wicked and to the