A SHIELD OF DEFENCE AGAINST THE ARROVVES OF SCHISME Shot abroad by Iean de L'escluse in his advertisment against Mr. BRIGHTMAN Here vnto is prefixed a declaration touching a booke intituled The profane schisme of the Brovvnistes By Iohn Fovvler Clement Saunders Robert Bulvvarde Luk. 12. vers 2. For there is nothing covered that shall not be Revealed neither hid that shall not be knovvne Printed at Amsterdam by Henry Laurenson Dvvelling vpon the vvater at the signe of the vvriting booke 1612. A declaration touching a booke lately printed entituled The Profane schesme of the Brovvnistes CHristian reader there vvas of late a booke published in London vnder this title The profane schisme of the Brounistes Such a booke indeed vve sent by one of vs to be printed there but in the publishing thereof great iniury hath bene done vnto vs chiefely three vvayes by addition by detraction by alteration of the same For the first besides the addition of sundry harsh vvordes phrases of heresies blasphemies diabolus horrible crimes c. in such place vvhere they vvere not vsed by vs vvhich yet according to the doctrine of the Brovvnistes themselves may iustly be applyed vnto them besides the addition in the title of the booke vvhich is doubly encreased by the publisher thereof beside the addition of the other titles of the severall chapters vvith a nevv table thereof added in stead of that vvhich vve had made besides sundry other such additions there be also added some thinges directly contrary to our meaning such as never came into our heads as namely those vvordes in the end of the preface as also to vvarne all such as haue bene the occasion of those heresies schismes to conforme themselues to the church of God that these caterpillars may no more rise out of them And although vve be c. By those vvordes the reader might conceive as though vve affirmed those ministers vvhich do refuse subscription conformity vnto the prelacy superstitious ceremonies vsed in the church of England to have bene the occasion of Brovvnisme guilty of that schisme c. But the truth is othervvise there vvere no such vvordes vvritten in the booke vvhich vve sent to be printed but they are foysted in obtruded vpon vs by some falsifyer vvithout our knovvledge or consent Our iudgement is that the tyranny of Lord BBs their impositions are a stumbling block vnto many that are vveake vvhich do thereby take occasioÌ„ to fall from the church to runne into schisme VVe assure our selves that if there vvere in the church of England such a reformatioÌ„ of the prelacy ceremonies as is desired by the ministers there is also obteyned in other reformed churches there vvould not theÌ„ be such a defection vnto Brovvnisme as novv the re is VVe knovv indeed that the Brounistes do ioyne vvith the prelates in vpbrayding the ministers vvith this thing vvould seeme to build their separation vpon the testimony of the ministers as appeareth by this booke of Delescluse vvhere he labours to conclude their separation from certaine speeches of Mr. Brightman testifying against the corruptions of the church of England but hovv vniustly absurdly he hath done the same vve hope it vvil evidently appeare by this refutation follvving Secondly there is in summe left out the greatest part of the booke vvhich vve sent to be printed yea in exact account there is not a fourth part there of that is printed In speciall there is not a third part of the preface printed vvherein our reasons for the maner of publishing that booke are conteyned there is left out a large ansvver vnto a narratioÌ„ vvritteÌ„ by Mr. Iohnson touching an offer of conference that vvas made vnto him likevvise the ansvver vnto the groundes of scripture alledged by M. Iohnson in in defence of separation is left out Divers testimonies of Dutch french ministers against theÌ„ be omitted vvith other vvritinges of Iohn Iohnson George Iohnson that should have bene printed The greatest part of the vilest slanders of the Brounistes are left out The greatest number of the chapters by far is omitted that vvhich should have bene the tenth chapter is made the first nine of the first being altogether omitted besides sundry other in the middes of the booke of those chapters that are there no one of theÌ„ is fully set doune in some of theÌ„ more theÌ„ half the matter omitted Divers straÌ„ge matters are noted in the booke but the occasioÌ„ there of the profes thereof vvith the ansvver vnto the vaine cavilles shiftes of the Brounistes about the same are omitted in respect of these omissioÌ„s divers thinges so abruptly set dovvne may seeme more harsh also more incredible vnto the reader so that hereby it may easily appeare hovv vve are iniuried by vnreasonable omissions as vvell as by vniust additions Thirdly for the method order of setting dovvne these thinges that are printed there is great alteratioÌ„ therein also Thinges spokeÌ„ vpoÌ„ one occasioÌ„ are related vpon an other not in their due place The speeches of one maÌ„ are so set doune as if they had bene spokeÌ„ by an other The speeches of divers men are peeced togather as if they had bene spokeÌ„ by one the same person In these such like chaÌ„ges both vve those vvhose testimonies are alledged by vs have receyved some further iniurye Besides these thinges there be also as it appeareth many literall faults in the misprinting of sundry vvordes vvhich do much corrupt the sense of sundry thinges in the booke And though thus many great iniuries be done vnto vs yet do vvee not hitherto fully vnderstaÌ„d by vvhoÌ„ they are done Onely this vve vnderstaÌ„d by a letter seÌ„t froÌ„ Chr. Lavvne vvho vvas eÌ„trusted vvhich this busines that the according to the order in such like cases seeking vnto such as vvere appoynted for the allovvaÌ„ce of bookes to be printed leaving it in the haÌ„ds of a certaine chaplaine of the Archb to get it read over vievved uÌ„till he himself might returne out of the couÌ„try into vvhich he vvas theÌ„ going dovvne before he could come vp to LoÌ„doÌ„ againe he fouÌ„d the booke already printed coÌ„trary to his expectatioÌ„ in the printing thereof so mangled defaced as is above specifyed And hovvsoever vve do novv disclayme this booke above mentioned as none of ours being thus corruptly printed vvith such additions omissions alterations yet do vve still acknovvledge that all the particular matters of fact recorded against the the Brvvonistes in that booke are such tiges as vvere takeÌ„ out of our vvriting for proofe thereof vve are able ready to produce our testimony vvitnesse as occasion shall requiâ—e The most of theÌ„ are testifyed coÌ„fessed by theÌ„selves the most heynous thinges eveÌ„ vnder their ovvne haÌ„d vvriting the rest are such thiÌ„ges as either vve our selves or others vvil vvitnesse And therfore though vve complaine Brovvnistes
insult there vpon though vve be vvronged yet are not they cleared from the matters there noted vvhich are still in force against them Our desire our purpose is hereafter as occasion opportuinty meanes shal be offred more fully to manifest their Profane schisme by the publishing of those thinges vvhich formerly have bene omitted in the meane time vve do here present vnto the reader a fevv observations vpon the advertisement of Iean Delescluse vvhich he hath vvritten against Mr. Brightman against the communion of saintes His perverse collections for separation dravvne from Mr. Brightman his Testimony vve have here shevved to be vaine vvicked The principles of Brovvnisme vvhich he hath briefely alledged are here breefely ansvverd yet so as that the vanity errour of their separation may be easily discerned hereby This labour vve have vndertaken cheefely for the comfort helpe of those vveake brethren vvho either do not sufficiently vnderstaÌ„d the iniquity of this errour of the Brounistes or els do not duely consider the danger of this schisme vvhich as it dayly breakes it self in pieces so vvould it also break ruinate overthrovv all the churches that should admit receyve the same vvhen corruptions do encrease are maynteyned let the godly vvitnesse against the same but let them not fret vnto separation so shall they vvalke vvith Christe in vvhite Reu. 3. 4. An ansvver vnto the advertisement of Iean Delescluse concerning Mr. Brightman vpon the Apocalyps 1. WHereas in his title he pretendes to advertise the godly reader whom afterward in his Epistle he calles Gentle reader and Christian reader marke how this man doth mocke his reader for by his profession of Brownisme he holdes all the membres of the church of England to be no visible Christians to be without true faith without godlines even eve-ry one as they are publique professours of the gospel in that church yet here in this flattering title of his English booke he dissembles notably as though he would honour record their godlines And thus in the very forehead of his booke his hypocrisy beginnes to shew it self 2. VVHereas in his title he takes on him to advertise every godly reader of Mr. Tho. BrightmaÌ„ his booke how absurd senselesse is it There be many godly readers of Mr. BrightmaÌ„s booke which vnderstaÌ„d no English at al seing it is extant in Latine yet he writes in English to advertise every one of them 3. IN the same place he alledgeth against the church of England that saying of the Prophet 1. Kim 18. 21. How long halt ye betweene two opinions If the lord be God follow him but if Baal be he then go after him This is vniustly applied against them who are assured of their lawfull communion with that church but this sentence or the like may much more fitly be alledged against the divided distracted Brownistes who halt betweene two opinions betweene two communions some halting after the Franciscane order sone limping after the Ainsworthian popular order some hanging in doubt betwixt both opinions so that they dare not ioyne to either of them but walk alone 4. THe first cause which mooved him to put forth this writing in defence of the separatioÌ„ he sets downe in these wordes First the glory of my God etc. what meanes he by this speech of his God in saying the glory of my God Hath he and his flock a speciall God of his owne more then other churches of Christe It is true indeed that David other faithful servants of God do often with the voyce of faith vse to speak of God in this manner my king and my God as Ps 84. 3. but yet if we looke a litle further into the profession of the Brownistes we may easily imagine some other cause of their speaking on this manner for whereas R. R. in his prophecying among the prophets of Mr. Anisworthes company testifyed against their separation iustifyed the church of England to be a true church being for this vniustly excommunicate of that company it was as vniustly defended by Mr. Ainsworth who layd this groud of his excommunicatioÌ„ froÌ„ Deu. 13. 1. 2. c. that he had sought to turne theÌ„ away froÌ„ the Lord their God had perswaded them to go after other Gods and to serve theÌ„ all this onely for perswading that it was lawfull to heare a sermoÌ„ in the church of Engl. to pray with theÌ„ c In this proceeding they declare that they hold the church of Engl. to be withovt the true God in that they coÌ„demne those that ioyne with the same to turne away froÌ„ the Lord their God to go after other Godâ— and therfore no marvel if according to this opinion they speak of their special God intending an other God whom we know not This may yet further appeare in the speech of Delecluse who being blamed for his schisme from the french church hath here vpon coÌ„demned that reformed church as having Christe to be neither their King priest nor Prophet And if they be without Christe then are they without true God Ioh. 2. Epist vers 9. and Ioh. 17. 3. According to these speeches it is not strange nor inconsequent that he should meane his speciall God in the forenamed phrase Iemar the monstroâ—s Arrian pretending that we erre about the nature of Christe doth blasphemously affirme that our God is no better then the planke vnder his foote Delescluse the inordinate Brownist pretending that Christe is not our king doth hereby sacrilegiously both deprive Christe of his people his people of their God their saviour their mediatour And thus while he pretendes the glory of his God he treades vnder his feete the glory of that everlasting God who is the God king of all the reformed churches round about 5. AGaine in his declaratioÌ„ of this first moving cause that made him to publish this treatiâ—e in defence of Brownisme he alledgeth divers scriptures which teach that the people of God ought to be holy as the Lord is holy as namely Levit. 19. 2. 1. Pet. 1. 5. 16. But what meanes he by this Can not the people of God be holy sanctifyed vnlesse they separate from the churches as the Brownistes doe or can they not give glory vnto God without their separation we see the contrary throughout the scriptures the holy Prophets the holy Apostles and Iesus Christe that holy one of God did keepe a holy communion among open obstinate sinners and glorified God thereby and this also in a church that was far more corrupt than that reformed church from which this Delescluse hath schismed and runne away 6. VNto his other allegation that all those that call vpon the name of Christe should depart from iniquitye 2. Tim. 2. 19. It may also be answered as the former that the most holy servants of God most zealous of his glory have kept communion which open sinners as offensiue as 〈…〉 the church
sin is in it self veniall al sinnes with out fâ—â—th in him do bring eternall wrath as well one as an other And in like maner Mr. Iohnson holding the same corruptions in the reformed dutch french churches might in this respect say of theÌ„ all as he * sayth of England that they stand all subiect to wrath God imputing this their sinne vnto them For any one of the least sinnes do make men subiect to wrath God imputing the same vnto them Lastly Mr. Iohnson as he telleth vs himself whensoever he vttred his hard sentence against the church of England did alwayes speak with caution and added some of these clauses being so considred in that estate in that 〈◊〉 But here Delescluse without any caution or clause of consideration shuts them vp all vnder eternall wrath makes his arrowes drunâ—ken with the blood of soules will needes have them all to drinck the cup of indignation from his hand with no lesse sin drunkennes of errour then when he had drunken that cup of magis whereof Iacob Iohnson is sayd to have admonished him he doth in this place as vainely condemne the faithfull for no sheepe of Christe as he did then commend the same Iacob Iohnson to be a fit pastour for his sheepe 20. THe second speech of Mr. Brightman alledged to shew that he doth corruptly teach against the separation is this viz. that the most mighty king Henry had expelled the pope but reteyned the popish superstition Note here the folly of Delescluse that would prove a separation in one time by the corruptions superstitions of an other time as though he should say In king Henries time there were many superstitions therfore in Queene Elizabeths time there ought to be a separation notwithstanding all the reformation that was procured by her meanes what sober man would so argue 21. FVrther whereas Delescluse sayth that the pope cannot properly be sayd to be expelled when his doctrine and superstition is retepned it is a vayne Cavill for first if he stand so precisely vpon propriety of speech the pope can not properly be sayd to be expelled no not then where his doctrine and superstition is expelled It is a figurative speech to note the popish doctrine and superstition vnder the name of the pope himself 2ly it is yet a true and a fit speech in Mr. Brightman to say that the pope was expelled when the iurisdiction of the pope and the supremacy formerly annexed vnto his person was denyed and reiected when he was no longer acknowledged to be the head of that church when that which was vniustly arrogated vnto the person of the pope was translated vnto the person of the king as it was in King Henries dayes even as the venetians at this day might very fitly be sayd to expell the pope if they would vtterly deny his supremacy both in civill and Ecclesiastcall causes howsoever they might reteyne many popish superstitions 2. THe third speech of Mr. Bright man which he bringes against him to prove a separation from the church of England is this that there is such a forme of church established as is neither cold nor hote but set in the middes and made of both etc. These wordes Mr. B. vttred in comparing the church of Laodicea England togather as the type and antitype vnto one an other That which he sayth of England he takes froÌ„ Laodicea which is also declared to be neither hote nor cold Rev. 3. 15. 16. so that by this manner of arguing he might as well prove a separation from the church of Laodicea in respect of the lukewarmnes which the holy ghost shewes to have bene found therein But that it is most erroneous so to reason Christe plainely teacheth vs while he telles vs that this church was still a golden candlestick that the angell thereof was a starre in his right hand that he himself would still sup communicate with that church And therfore so also may the church of England be reputed not with standing the same or the like luke warmnes 23. VVIth this third speech he desires that this which he hath set downe for the fift charge may be ioyned where Mr. B. sayth that no other cause can be brought of their lukewarmnes the popish governement mingled with the pure doctrine then the love of riches and honours And what can he conclude hence VVhat though they were covetous ambitious given to the love of riches honors so became lukewarme shall this be a iust cause of separation from the church No for the scribes Pharisees were also covetous ambitious Mat. 23. 5. etc. Luk. 16. 14. yet coÌ„munion with them was lawfull 24. HE desires further that this complaint of lukewarmnes may be compared with that prayse of reformation which Mr. Br. gives vnto the church of England in the title of his epistle dedicatory VVel being compared with the same it may well stand togather with it for reformed churches may yet have lukewarme ministers many other greevous corruptions to be complayned of yea doth not Delescluse condemne himself in this matter for doth not he also in the title of his booke in his epistle written to the English readers entitle theÌ„ with the name of godly reader and Christian reader And is there any god â—ineâ— without reformation Is there any Christian that is not reformed VVhy then may not Mr. B. call those holy reformed whom Delescluse doth call godly and Christian 25. HE demandes still in the same place sayth Is it possible that holynes and vnholynes can raigne togather VVe answer Yea in one the same church in the divers members thereof as in the church of the iewes holynes raygned in Christe his disciples vnholynes raigned in the scribes and Pharisees c. 26. HE yet demandes againe saith Is there any communion betweene Christe and Anti-christe betweene light and darknes betweene Idolles and the true God Can any kingdome any church any family any man submit vnto the governement of Anti-christe and not be defiled VVe answer though Christe Anti-christe be enimies yet the servants of Christe may lawfully communicate in that church where many abhominations of Anti-christe are to be seene sor as francis wingrave a Brownist doth truely acknowledge Every abhomination of Anti-thriste doth not make a church to become Anti-christian for the best churches are subiect to errour and some abhominations of Anti-christe were crept into Christian churches whiles the Apostles lived And yet communion was lawfull therein Even so the children of light the children of darknes did communicate togather in Christes time As for Idolles if they be no other then set formes of read prayer and such like which the Brownistes call idolles communion with them is lawfull enough And for governement though Caiaphas was an Anti-christian vsurper yet did many persons lawfully submit vnto his power Thus hath God himself and his Prophets Christ
of England yet departed from iniquity It is a great 〈◊〉 in schismatiques that cannot distinguish betwixt departing from iniquity and departing from a church where iniquity is tolerated Christe 〈…〉 iniquity of the Pharisees and Sadducees and and yet departed 〈…〉 fellowship of that church where in they remayned 7. THe second reason which he alledges for his writing of this treatise is the fervent desire which he sayth he hath of the salvation of mens soules and the gayning of them vnto God If this be so as he boasteth we do prayse and commend him for it but yet if he had bene as sober and modest as he is fervent he would not have bene so forward to prayse his owne fervency in that we commend him not nor yet in this that he seemes to seeke the salvation of mens soules by leading them into his schisme or separation 8. IN the declaration of this second reason he telles vs that the meanes of saying soules is to shew vnto the their erring from the truth and from going astray out of the way Iam. 5. 19. 20. But how vnfit a man is Iean delescluse for such a purpose Do not all the Brownistes generally know and consider how prone this man is to runne into errour and to go astray out of the way before many others Among all their Prophets is there any which in the exercise of prophecy have so often bene corrected for errour as this man His manner is indeed to be fervent and hote but in his heate so rash and inconsiderate that often he vtters erroneous thinges and often by Mr. Iohnson and Daniel studly hath he bene reproved and convicted of the same He that hath so often receyved open shame and rebuke for his errour is not so meete a man to become the censurer of so learned and iudicious a writer as Mr. Brightman is generally acknowledged to be 9. THe third reason which he alledgeth for the publishing of this treatise is in respect of him self having had a hand both in the translating and printing of Mr. Britghtman his booke etc. But of this he may speake with shame enough in respect of his vnfaithfull dealing herein for being appoynted by his maisters that set him on worke to print this booke that without any leave to comment vpon it or to adde his censures what doth this coosening companion but goes causeth his gloses to be printed in the margent of this booke He there lets downe in opposition vnto Mr. Brightman his contradictions of him his interrogations his exclamations against him O England etc. O Brightman etc. Yea his citations of him vnto indgement let God and his angelles and all the world indge etc. And thus without the consent or license of those that employed him in their busines he defaces disgraceth the work committed vnto him offendeth his maisters wronges the reader iniurieth the authour of the books who now sleepeth in peace with the Lord But when this his deceit was found out those that were at cost charges for the printing of this booke did then call him to account for this his bad daaling in fine compelled him at his owne charges to take the paines to alter and set over againe those sheetes of the booke which he had corrupted defaced with his marginall gloses then to leave out those gloses which he had before so boldly deceitfully inserted in that worke for the evidence truth of this matter we have both the testimony of those that set him on worke as also his owne handy-work to reprove him viz. the misprinted sheetes the tokens of his deceit which we keep by vs for a monument of his falshood The truth is that Iean Delescluse did fret chafe when this rebuke was layd vpon him but howsoever part of his punishment was remitted vnto him yet was there no remedy divers sheetes must needes be printed againe he must endure the paine labour for the setting of the same And thus we may see the saying of the wise man to be verifyed in him The deceitfull man costeth not that which he tooke in hunting Prov. 12. 27. The wages which he got by setting those sheets deceitfully at first was not so much but the labour the losse the shame withall which he had at the reprinting thereof may well be thought to be much more 10. IN the declaration of this his third reason he telles vs of his full perswasion that there be errours abberrations in Mr. Br. his book therfore addeth further If I had held my peace and sayd nothing I could not have cleared my self from partaking with other mens synnes and so should have done contrary to that holy commandement of the apostle to Timothy 1. Tim. 5. 22. According to this profession of conscience if it be vnfeigned in him it may be further demanded of him 1. VVhy did he not also put forth some short writing against the latine editiō of Mr. Br. his booke seing he the same Iean Delescluse had also a hand in the printing of it heretofore That book in latine hath bene out now these divers yeares never till this time hath he cleared himself by any writing against it so long therfore he may seeme to have partaken with an other mans sinne 2. VVhereas Mr. Th. hath hath had a hand in the printing of Mr. Robinsons booke against Mr. Bernard there being in it divers errours aberratiōs from the truth of the living God this not onely in the iudgement of Mr. Iohnson who hath openly protested against the manifold errours therein but also in the iudgement of Mr. Ainsworth himself his company how comes it now to passe that Mr. Th. hath not the like care conscience to put forah some short writing against that booke as wel as Delescluse against Mr. Br. his booke why doth not I. Delescluse call vpon his fellow in like manner why doth he suffer Mr. Th. to partake with Mr. Robinsons errours by printing his booke 3. VVhereas this Iean Delescluse was heretofore a cardmaker seing he hath had a hand in making those cardes that are the bookes of gamesters idle persons seing many persons might be offended scandalized by the vse of those play-bookes why hath he not had the conscience to put forth some short writing against those bookes of vanity why is he not afraid of partaking with the sinnes of those gamesters whose handes have handled the cardes that were the worke of his hādes VVhy did he never yet cleare himself of this evill A good conscience is without partiality seekes to prevent one offence as wel as an other VVhat can he answer to these thinges when he hath answered these thinges we have sundry more such like to demand of him 11. BEsides his partiality above noted marke his folly also in this dealing for if it were no sin to have a hand in the printing of Mr. Brightmans booke thē what neede he to seek
the clearing of himself by writing against the booke if it were a sin to have a hand in the printing thereof theÌ„ how foolish is he to think he could by an after testification cleare himself from that sinne which he did first willingly commit If this were a watrrantable course why might he not still follow his old trade of cardmaking then afterwardes cleare himself by witnessing writing against them why might he not also make idoles or images afterwardes cleare himself froÌ„ partaking with the sinne of Idolatours by testifying against them Behold here the extreme absurdity of the Brownistes who condemne our communioÌ„ where we duely testify against the evilles coÌ„mitted by others whiles they think to iustify themselves by testifying against those evilles in the committing whereof they them selves have a hand 2. In a due testification against evill the testimony ought to be as large as the evill the plaister ought to be as large as the soare but Delescluse is vncertayne whether his writing which he countes a plaister for the errours and sores in Mr. Br. his booke shall ever spread so far as Mr. Br. his booke therfore it must needes be folly and sin in him that shall voluntarily and wilfully publish such thinges which he accountes as stumbling blockes layd before the blinde while he is ignorant whether his labour shall ever come so far as to help the removall thereof in many places 12. IN the subscription of his Epistle he vnder writes thus Thine as thou art the Lordes Iean Delescluse that is to say Thine as thou art a Brewnist and a separatist for al the promises of God and of salvation they do oft appropriate vnto those that separate Those onely they declare to be the lords as touching their visible estate Therfore howsoever he wold seeme to professe friendship it is but hypocrisy beware of such fâ—endes 13. LEt vs now come from his Epistle to the book it self where in he takes vpon him to shew how corruptly Mr. Brightman hath taught that the church of England is not to be separated from not withstanding all the sinnes and abhominations that are in the same This poynt he sets downe both in the title of his booke and in his Epistle againe as the butte or white at which he meanes to shoote against this make he bendes his bow and prepares his arrowes vpon the stinge And for the proofe of this poynt he sets downe ten speciall speeches which Mr. Brightman hath vttred touching the corruptions of the church of England The first speech he alledgeth are these wordes of Mr. Brightman I could not but mourne from the bottome of my heart when I beheld in her Christe loathing vs and very greatly provoked against vs. Here vpon Iean Deslescluse inferreth thus I desire the reader to observe the word which he vseth of Christe lothing them which word of loathing seemeth to be taken from the 95. Psal vers 10. Where the Prophet speaking in the person of the Lord him self sayth that fourty yeares long he had loathed that generation saying that they are a people â—rring in their heart and not knowing his wayes wherfore he sware in his wrath that they should not enter into his rest So that by Mr. Brightmans owne grant this church of England is in no better estate then were these rebelles in the wildernes all which were consumed and entred not into his rest as he had sworne First this inference of Delescluse is vtterly false for though Mr. B. should grant the same phrase to be vsed both of England Israel yet doth it not follow by this grant that England is in no better estate then those rebelles in the wildernes for the holy ghost often vseth ore the same generall worde or phrase touching divers sinners which yet not with standing may not therfore be all alike so condemned but that some of them may be in better estate then others for example it is sayd that the Lord was angry with Israel in the dayes of Iehoahaz 2. kin 13. 3. It is also sayd in the like phrase of speech that the wrath of the Lord was kindled against Israel in the dayes of David 2. Sam. 24. 1. Doth it now follow that Israel in the dayes of David was in no better estate then in the dayes of Iehoahaz The contrary is most evident plaine Israel being at one time a true church at th' other a false church by the confession of the Brownistes themselves It is sayd in one generall phrase I hate all false wayes Ps 119. 128. Now it is one false way to be hated or loathed that the high places were reteyned in the dayes of Iehoash others 2. kin 12. 3. 14. 4. It was an other false way that the goldeÌ„ calves Baal were worshipped by the kinges of Israel doth it now follow that these people were one of them in no better estate then the other because the phrase of hating or loathing might be vsed against both of them Nothing lesse To come neerer vnto them Mr. Robinson accounting it a false way a violation of Gods ordinance in Mr. Ainsworthes company that they have no separation of their aimes among them it followes herevpon that in his account also the word of loathing or hating may be vsed against them seing every false way reteyned is to be loathed And further Mr. Robinson holdes it a false way order of government that is practised in Mr. Iohnsons church which is therfore also to be loathed by them Doth it now follow from hence that by this graunt Mr. Ainsworthes company is in no better estate then Mr. Iohnsons because of the same word of loathing attributed vnto both of them Nothing lesse The matter being thus made plaine vnto them the simplest among them may see what a corrupt blinde maner of reasoning is here vsed by their elder Delescluse Secondly suppose it were granted that the church of Tsrael were in no better estate then Israel in the wildernes yet what is this to the scope and purpose of his booke Doth this prove that the church of England is therfore to be separated from Nay the contrary appeareth hence seing it is vndeniably true that even Israel in the wildernes notwithstanding all their abhominations which the Lord loathed were yet a true church and communion with them was lawfull as appeares in the example of Moses Ioshua Aaron and other faithfull servants of God remayning among them And therfore so might it be with England also though being in no better estate And thus the same arrow that he shootes at vs returnes vpon himself and pearceth the side of his owne separation 14. IN the next place he procedes labours to perswade his reader that the Lord hath more iust cause to wath the church of England then that of the Israelites in the wildernes VVel suppose now that this also were granted vnto him would this prove that we should