future Pope shall haue power to depose Angelo Corrario formerly called Gregorie 12. eyther from beeing a Cardinall or from his office of Legate Della Marca which the Councell bestowed vpon him or haue any power to call him in question or proceed against him for any thing which he had taken vpon him to do in the Papacie Let him read also Ses 39. which insued the deposing of all the Popes vncertaine where it commaundeth all future Popes within a time limitted to summon a generall Councell And here let him marke the wordes whereby it bindeth all Popes to the execution of it let him then turne ouer to the Ses 44. where Martin the .5 after he is elected executed the Decree and let him obserue the word Teneatur which is both in the Decree of the Councell and in the execution of it Afterwardes in the last Ses the Ambassadors of Polonia and Lituania made humble supplication to the Pope that before the dissolution of the Councell a certaine Booke of a Frier call'd Iohn Falkembergh might be condemn'd in publike Session otherwise protesting in the behalfe of their Maisters De grauamine de appellando ad futurum Concilium Neither did the Pope finde himselfe any way agreeued at this protestation nor the Councell thinke it strange and by the practise of this Decree the Author may vnderstand how it may be from hence collected that a Pope Canonnically chosen and vndoubtedly accepted for Pope is bound to the obedience of the Church and of the Councell which conclusion the Author doth affirme cannot be collected from that Councell of Constance and therefore let him compare the Decree with the practise alleadged and he shall see that Gersons speach deserueth no reprehension The third Obseruation is that the Decree can haue no further force saue only for redressing of that Scisme because it was the worke of a body without a head but foreseeing an Obiection that might be made against him drawne from the confirmation of Martin the 5. the Author notes that the Councell was approoued by the Pope onely so farre foorth as the Actes were decreed Conciliariter but this was not so that is vpon disputation preceding and with an orderly collection of the voyces of the Fathers And where I pray you doth the Author finde that this Decree was made without deliberation and disputation or without collection of the Fathers voyces Peraduenture he meanes because it is not set downe in wryting by that reason in the Councell of Trent nothing was decreed Conciliariter because there is no mention made either of suffrages or disputations So then though the disputations wherevpon that Decree was made were not set downe in writing yet it is to be beleeued that there were disputations and the rather for that the workes of very worthy men were written at that time of this subiect amongst which that learned Booke of Gerson was one De potestate Ecclesiastica origine viris Legum as any man may knowe who will read it Moreouer Gerson in this consideration doth declare that this question was very much disputed for that it was begunne in the Councell of Pisa which was fiue yeares before that of Constance And who then can doubt but that in the Councell of Pisa in the Councell of Constance and in the interim of those fiue yeares but that the difficulties were exactly considered in the determination of it the suffrages orderly collected But if any man will read the confirmation of Martin .5 hee shall euidently perceiue that Conciliariter doth not signifie that which the Author would haue it but is an interpretatiue In the 45. and last Session of that Councell it is sayd That the Masse and Letanie beeing ended the Cardinall of S. Vito by the commaundement of the Pope and of the Councell sayd Domini ite in pace wherevnto Amen was answered and afterward a Bishop beeing by order from the Pope about to make a Sermon for the conclusion of the Councell The Ambassadours of the King of Polonia and of the great Duke of Lituania did demaund in the name of their Maisters as hath been already touched that Falkembergh's Booke might be condemned in publike Session which was formerly condemned by those that were deputed in causa fidei and of the Nations of the Councell and of the Colledge of Cardinals the Popes answere was that he did confirme whatsoeuer the Councell had concluded and determined in matters of Fayth Conciliariter and not otherwise whereby it doth appeare that Conciliariter is apposed to that which the Ambassadors had alleadged Namely that the Booke was condemned seuerally by those that were deputed in causa fidei by the Nations and by the Colledge of Cardinals and that Conciliariter doth signifie as much as if he should haue sayd In publique Session But let vs yet come somewhat nearer the matter if this answere of the Pope were giuen vpon some vnexpected proposition happening made after the end of the Councell then neither was the Councell approued before neither was it the Popes intention to approue it And if these Pollaxes had not profered this proposition the condemnation of Wickliffe and Husse had not been authenticall and it will follow that a generall Councell was accidentally confirmed And yet this is as tollerable as many other thinges which are vsuall with our Author That Councell was a body without a head to conclude that in the vacancie of the Chaire Apostolique the Church is to be reputed vnperfect as beeing defectiue in some Essentiall part After the death of Marcelinus the Church continued seauen yeares a halfe without a Pope vnder Diocletians persecution as Damasus doth testifie And who will therefore affirme that the Church was defectiue in some Essentiall part in that time of so great perfection I know that some men do not beleeue that the vacancie had so long continuance mooued therevnto by some probable inducementes But it is more credible that Damasus should know the truth of it being himselfe a Pope 69. yeares after the death of Marcelinus and borne shortly after that vacancie then wee in our time vpon vncertaine coniectures But let this be as it will let vs speake of things which are certaine Vpon the death of Clement the fourth in the yeare 1270. the Church was without a Pope wel-nie three yeares Shall it therefore be said that the Church was all that while without a head No rather let vs hold the doctrine of S. Ciprian and S. Augustine 24 quaest 1. C. Quodcunque C. lequitur The author concludeth his Discourse of the inualiditie of this forenamed decree of the Councell of Constance saying Wherevpon afterwardes Pius the second in the Councell of Mantua doth excommunicate whomsoeuer should appeale from the Pope to the Councell Heere we are to obserue that there may be a Fallacie in the worde Onde Wherevpon for it may import as though Pope Pius the second did excommunicate such appealance because the Pope is superiour to the Councell
and diuision because that in these latter times many countries and kingdomes haue fallen from the Church of Rome vpon no other occasion but because the Pope would euer be enterprizing vpon their temporall estates Wee may firmely beleeue that Paulus Quintus had a good intention to reforme the abuses which haue bin brought in till this present But so great is their violence that it is no meruaile if men of neuer so good mindes bee transported and caryed away contrary to their own inclinations to that very point which they minded to auoyde AN Answere to Gersons second booke intituled An examination of this assertion Bellarmine Sententia Pastoris etiam iniusta est timenda IN the second booke the same Iohn Gerson makes relation that a certaine Commissary of the Popes in some publique proceeding of his makes this assertion followlowing Our sentences though they bee vniust must both be feared and obeyed Gerson Vpon which assertion hee passeth a censure diuided into many Propositions which are these that follow First this assertion is false Secondly this assertion is impossible Thirdly this assertion is erronious in point of manners Fourthly this assertion is suspected of heresie Fiftly this assertion bringes the author of it in suspicion for his faith and must therfore be called in question till he either explane his sentence or reuoke it and if hee persist in his opinion then is he to bee turned ouer to the secular power Bellarmine This in briefe is the iudgement of Gerson which how it is too strict and seuere will appeare in the discourse that followes This Commissary whether he were true or fained not content onely to say according to the saying of Saint Gregory that his sentences though they were vniust were to be feared ads further that they were likewise to bee obeyed And though hee might haue forborne the adding of these words yet do they not deserue so hard a censure as this of Gersons who hath taken that in ill sense which might haue beene well enough taken Gerson doth reprehend two thinges in this Commissary of both which we will briefly discourse First hee reprehends him for speaking positiuely without distinction that his sentences though they were vniust were to bee feared for it seemes by this he would say that all vniust sentences are to be feared though we are to vnderstand that not all vniust sentences are to be feared but such onely as though they bee vniust are yet of validity as it is gathered out of Gratianus 11. Quest 3. per totum To this it may be answered that the Commissary spake in like sense as S. Gregory and the holy Canons for as S. Gregory sayth that a sentence of the pastor how iust or vniust soeuer it be is to be feared though he speake without distinction yet can it not be gathered thereby that euery sentence of the pastour is to bee feared but that onely which though it be vniust is not yet to be accounted a nullity So likewise can it not be collected out of the Commissaries words that all sentences are to be feared but those onely as though they be vniust are not yet manifestly of no validity To cōclude the same scandale that is laide to the words of the Commissary may in like manner be laide to those of S. Gregory Frier Paolo In the answere to the second booke of Gerson wherein are many thinges which do plainely demonstrate the iustice of the cause of the state of Venice and the nullity of the censures pronounced against it the Author taking no note of any of them falles a disputing with Gerson and shewing that the assertion pronounced by a Commissary of the Popes in these words Our sentences though they be vniust must be both feared and obayed hath some good sense in which it may be vnderstood and that therefore Gerson is somewhat too seuere a Censor in making an ill construction of that which may be well taken not remembring how in his answer to the first worke he hath not onely takē the words of Gerson continually in the worse sense but farther when Gerson himselfe wold declare his owne meaning omitting the declaration opposeth him selfe to the wrong part of the sense which hee before had distinguisht and secluded and where he is forced to confesse that the doctrine of Gerson is absolutely true he hath either found it to be som way iniurious as appeares in the ninth consideration or by a voluntary mistaking of times will seeme to belieue that Gersons worke was written before the Councell of Constance which surely was written since as this second booke was likewise written since that time because that herein he doth name the foresaid Councell and more doth giue the title of Regent to the sonne of Charles the sixth who tooke it not to him till the yeare 1418. which I thought fitte to touch by the way to shew that both these bookes were made in the Popedome of Martinus Quintus who was a single and vndouted Pope By which means the common refuge of the Author who will needes haue it that Gersons doctrine was written in a time of schisme helps nothing for all he saith to auoide the force of his arguments Gerson doth not deny but that the assertion of the Commissary may haue some good sense in it because he saith the Commissary must be inforced either to expresse himselfe or reuoke his sentence But Gerson denies that the assertion in the formall sense it hath can be true and true it is that he which examineth an assertion when it is in Thesis that is vniuersall without applying it to the particular occasion doth examine it in the formal sense of the wordes But cōming to the Hypothesis he takes it in that sense which the particular occasion doth minister Our Author therefore doth well in examining it both wayes and first taking it in Thesis sayth that it followes not of this that all vniust sentences are to be feared as Gerson affirmes but this should be gathered onely of those as though they be vniust are not yet to be accounted nullities since you may conclude as much out of S. Gregories saying that the sentence of the pastor be it iust or vniust is to be feared seeing that this is spoken without distinction yet neuertheles is to be vnderstood by all men of that which is vniust and yet of validity and concludes in briefe that the scandale which is giuen to the words of the Commissary may as well be giuen to the words of Saint Gregory It had been enough to haue said interpretation because this word scandall and S. Gregory agree not in my opinion so well together But whē the Author sayth that the saying of S. Gregory is subiect to the same interpretation this is to be vnderstoode either as it is set downe in S. Gregory himselfe or as it is in Gratianus or else as it is absolutely separate by it selfe and in any mans mouth that will abuse it
that I say it may yet also fall out that a successor of his not being so well aduised as were fit may attempt that thing bearing himselfe in hand that he doth right well which another man that is neerer concerned in the fact therefore can iudge better what it imports than he may see clearly that it must needs sort to the Churches vndoing The Author is I confesse a man most excellent in learning of singular efficacy in perswading yet for all this he shall neuer make me beleeue nor happily any other that shal read how that euery mortall man of what place or dignity soeuer may not sometimes either through his owne will or through humane infirmity giue an aid furtherance yet without any wicked intent in himself to some subtile designe of the diuels and from this scape let him neuer strain himself to exempt any one man vntill he shall haue exempted me him first from praying Et ne nos inducas in tentationem The Author demaunds what faith is that which teacheth to resist Gods vicar I answer him it is the very faith of my L. Cardinall Bellarmine who saith in formall tearmes thus Itaque scilicet resistere Pontifici inuadenti corpus ita licet resissere in vadēti animas vel turbanti remp multò magis si Ecclesiam destruere interit licet inquam ei resissere non faciendo quod iubet impediendo ne exequatur voluntatem suam So then here the word of God in the last to the Ephesians intreateth of the resistance we haue to make against the diuell whom God permitteth through his most hidden and iust secret iudgements to plot deuise against the peace quiet of the holy Church The Author alleageth that of S. Paule to the Hebrews Obedite praepositis vestris subiacete eis and it likes me very wel first because it is not ment of the Pope in speciall but of the Bishops yea and of all Curats so that it makes nothing for the Pope in particular but he shuld indeed haue produced the whol place of S. Paul Obedite praepositis vestris et subiacete eis ipsi enim peruigilā quasi rationē pro animabus vestris reddituri or as he saith in the Greeke Obey them that are set ouer you be subiect vnto them for they ward ouer your soules as they that must render an account of them So farre forth as those that are set ouer our soules so farre it appertaines vs to obey them which is as if he should haue said wee must obeye them in thinges Spirituall which appertaine to our soules health and because the Author brings in that si ecclesiam non audiēt sit tibi sicut ethnicus publicanus we must know that the Church is as S. Paule stiles it the pillar and basis of the truth and that it wil neuer teach any thing but the Doctrine of Christ nor cōmaund any thing but what shall be conforme to that but wee haue not yet perceiued that the Church commandeth that which the Author saith Se here our paralogisme which answeres from our taking the name of Church in diuerse significations In this very place many writers doe vnderstand dic Ecclesiae id est Praelatis Ecclesiae but no one vnderstands it of the Pope alone we will vnderstand it then of him indifferently as of all other Prelates not in any manner of speciallity reseruing notwithstanding to euery one his owne degree place And this si ecclesiā non audierit shall be vnderstood when they shall speake in the ministry of excōmunication according to the doctrine of the Church Now it is notorious that the proceedings of the Venetian state are according to the Churches doctrine since the custome vse througout all Christian Kingdoms are iust after the same manner Here I would faine learne why in that Gospell which is read vpon the tuesday after the third sunday in Lent where it was written in the Masse booke Respiciens Iesus in discipulos suos dixit Simoni Petro si peccauerit c. why they haue in all the Massebookes that haue beene printed of late yeares takē away these words I know they are not in the books of the new Testament but of many other words which are found in the Massebooke not in the bookes of the new Testament it is said they come ex traditione Apostolica so one will tell vs that howsoeuer the Euangelist doth not affirme it yet it comes by traditiō that these words were directed to Peter Here then must needs grow some distinction by which there may appeare a difference betweene this tradition and the others which when it is made yet all will be to little to take order that for many hundred yeares it was not so read consequently so beleeued of all the faithfull for so many ages that it was spoken particularly to Peter dic ecclesiae So that wee must needs aequiuocate in the noune Church interpret it dic tibi ipsi ye yet further it will be a sense too to wrested to vnderstand by the Church one sole person and that not so much because the nowne it selfe brookes it not as for that Christ himselfe interpreting it in the words immediately following saith vbi fuerint duo vel tres c. So that it is apparantly cleared that hee vnderstood by the Church a congregation of two or three at the least assembled in his name but of this because it is borne out by Saint Chrisostome expositiō we will speak hereafter where the Aut. also treats the matter more at large shew him how S. Chriso is not for him but is opposit Bellarmine But it is now time we come to consider of Gersons considerations to make it cleare that either they make nothing to the purpose or that they are erroneus Frier Paulo Here before I proceede to the particular defence of Gersons considerations I must not ouerslip to admonish the godly reader that it is a trick of arte or a desseine of the Author for some of his owne ends that he neuer leaues repeating iterating aswell in the matters we haue already surueyed as in those that follow charging the Venitian state that it will not acknowledge it will not obey that it despiseth the supreame Bishop the vicar of Christ and with other like tearmes apt to raise enuie ingender hatred in so many as cānot be rightly informed touching the controuersie now a foote and of the iustice of the sttates cause which end that it may more easily be obtayned we may obserue how they hinder it all they can that the reasons of the State may not be seene a practise directly against all reason diuine and humaine To which I wil say once for al the so many inculcatiōs ingeminated by the Author that this is not to handle the matter in question with syncerity For that the Venetiā state doth acknowledge obey as it hath alwaies done
a man to obedience And more that sentence is erronious in point of manners because it teacheth to doe ill and likewise in matter of faith because he that saith it is lawful to do ill is an Heretique and if he repent not himselfe he must bee put into the handes of the secular power that hee may bee punished according to his deserts and a sentence of this nature must not onely not be obeyed but also not so much as feared because our sauiour saith nolite timere eos qui occidunt corpus and a man should sooner choose to die then obey such a law Whereby there can bee no discouery made of this fourth part which Gerson produceth which is that some sentences either ought or may be feared yet not obeyed speaking of that feare which is an inducement to obedience though there may bee a naturall feare of a tyrant which commaundes wickednesse But neither in this hath the Commissary erred because hee alwaies spake of such a sentence as though it were vniust was yet of validity as this can not bee which commaunds sinne and may be plainely condemned of a nullity See then how the whole dicourse of Gerson is built in the ayre And he which translated it brought it to light to teach the Venetians to dispise the Popes sentences being iust and of validity shewes himselfe to bee more fraught with malice then iudgement For the better expressing the meaning of Gerson Frier Paolo and declaring the truth it is very necessary ouer and aboue thaâ— which we haue saide before that it is no hard matter to finde sentences which are to bee feared yet not obeyed to proceede with the same distinction the author vseth that a sentence must either commaund a thing which is manifestly good or plainely bad or that which is doubtfull And as for the first part when the thing which is commaunded is manifestly good and equitable wee hold with the Author that it is to bee obeyed For the third part which imports a doubtfullnesse for feare of his equiuocations wee must distinguish this worde doubt as wee haue done before into that which goeth before an orderly admonition and that which followes after The first doth not tie vs to obedience but to take counsell onely and then if vpon consultation the doubt can not bee ouercome wee agree with him that the subiect is then bound to follow the opinion of his superior and not his owne And I would craue pardon of the Reader in that I so often repeat this doctrine because the author comes out so often with his equiuocations to make Châ—istians runne blindly forward in beeing led by other mens passions In the second case when a bad matter is comaunded vpon paine of excommunication and a time set down for the fact or els the excoÌ„munication to take effect this sentence hath two parts the one which commaunds obedience to the iniunction within the time prescribed and the other which commaunds forbearance from the Communion if it bee not obeyed before the saide time be expired As for the first part I say it is sinne to feare it as the author requires and he that feares it in that sort doth commit sinne and here that which he alleageth is properlie verified nolite timere eos qui occidunt corpus but for the second part which is forbearing the Communion it is more then the subiect is bound to but if hee will doe it of himselfe beecause hee will not transgresse the other iniunction hee doth not offend And thus saith Gerson in these wordes which the author must needes haue reade because in some cases they may bee feared by timorous consciences yet notwistanding they are not to be obeyed for there is great difference in saying they are to bee obeyed and they are to be feared to obey a sentence of excommunication is vnderstood by Gerson to execute the iniunction either by that meanes not to incurre the sentence of excoÌ„munication or if it bee incurred yet to be absolued But to feare an excommunication Gerson takes that to bee to forbeare the Communion A sentence of excommunication ioyned to an iniunction which commaunds an vniust act hee which obeyes it doth sinne whereas he that feares it only sinnes not though he be not bound to feare it Wherefore there is great diffrence in saying Our sentences though they be vniust ought to be feared because this signifies a forbearing of the Communion for the reuerence is had of them and the Commissary speaking in this sort had failed no otherwise then in saying ought in steede of may but when he said they ought to bee obeyed he committed a greater fault because they not onely not ought but further not so much as can be obeyed without sinning yet may they be feared though that be more then needs And this is the fourth part expressely declared by Gerson which the author saith is not to be found though it may easily be found both in Saint Gregory and Gratianus by any that will enter into consideration of the matter without affecting contradiction But the author as it seemes not well assured before of what the Commissary spake yet here as if he spake vpon better ground saith neither in this yet hath the Commissary erred because he euer spake of an vniust sentence yet such a one as was of validitie as this is not which commaunds sinne which enforceth mee to make a little digression to declare the fact which is the subiect of this booke Before the councell of Constance and about the yeare 1399. Henry the sixt king of France called an assembly of the Clergy Scholemen of his kingdome where amongst other thinges it was concluded that the Romish Buls of reseruatioâ—s and papall prouisions should not be admitted but that electiue benefices should be conferred by election and the presentations of others should be made by the Ordinaries which decree that it might be the better obserued was many times renued within the twenty yeares following as well by other decrees made by Churchmen of that kingdome as by acts of Parliament which were often renued and reuiued notwithstanding all lets and impediments which were laid in the way by Briefes and Commissions from the court of Rome against the obeying of them Now it plainely appeares in the second proposition that Gerson spake of a Commissary which went into France vpon some such occasion and that the time in which Gerson wrote was in the Popedome of Martinus Quintus may bee seene in the same Proposition where it is said that for 20. yeares space the king held a councell of Prelates which councell as Guagninus reports was first assembled in the foresaide yeare 1399. And in the third proposition when Gerson spake of the Sonne of Charles the sixt he vsed these words To his lawfull sonne now Regent who as Francis Belforest doth testifie tookel to him this title in the yeare 1418. So as by all these circumstances it is to bee gathered that
this worke of Gersons was written after the yeare 1418. and before 1422. when Charles the sixt dyed If then Martinus Quintus was elected in 1417. it is plaine the booke was written in his Popedome beside that Gerson himselfe in the fourth proposition doth nominate the councell of Constance as then past Then must it needs bee that the Commissary commaunded the execution of some Papall prouision contrary to the orders set downe by the foresaid conuocation which according to Gerson was to commaund an vniust thing and did therfore conteine intollerable errors against publicke iustice and in his opinion did tend directly to an vndue vsurpation All which if it had beene obserued by our author hee had surely forborne to say that the Commissary spake of vniust sentences but such as were of validity seeing plainely in the fourth proposition that this Commissaries sentence is a protestation made against the foresaid actes and decrees and for this reason Gerson held it of no validity This Commissary if he had beene a man of conscience could not haue held his own seÌ„tences vniust but like one that how euer the world went would be obeyed to ease himselfe of trouble in iustifying his mandats writ in a common processe that his sentences whether they were iust or vniust were to bee obeyed If vniust sentences might suffer a distinction of such as were of validitie and such as were not of validitie hee had not freed himselfe of all difficulties because hee might yet bee encountered with the question of validitie and therefore the Commissary endeauoured in one ambiguous word to include the generall that necessary it was to obey all his sentences and by this meanes thought to purchase obedience to that which hee particularly intended not much vnlike to this present occasion wherein many distrusting their own abilities in shewing the iustice of the Popes mandats to the common wealth of Venice say that the Pope is to bee obeyed though hee commaund vniust things Surely I cannot but much wonder how the author treating of a question which is grounded vpon a thing in fact should conclude coÌ„trary to the truth of the story See then I pray you how all Gersons discourse is built in the ayre And now as if in the eight propositions following Gerson had swerued from his purpose and treated of another matter the author saith Bellarmine To this discourse Gerson doth add certain propositions to shew that which the most Christian king was both able and ought to do in defence of the liberty of the French church of which propositions it is not very necessary to discourse in this place First because they are all grounded vpon this principle that the authority of a councell is aboue the Popes authority for vpon no other reason will Gerson haue it that the Pope cannot change the auncient Cannons vpon which the French Church did then ground their liberty but because hee did belieue that those Canons which were made by the councel could not be subiect to the Popes will and authority Now that this principall is declared to be false let vs not belieue that the Venetians can hould it for true Secondly because that since Gersons time In the councell of Lateran vnder Leo the tenth that pragmaticall act was abrogated which the French churches defended agrement was made betwixt Pope Leo and the most Christian king so as now there is no more talke of the liberty of the French church in preiudice of the Pope But the most Christian king and all the Bishops of France are at peace and vnitie with their mother which is the church of Rome and likewise with their Father which is the Pope Christs vicar Saint Peters successor Thirdly because this liberty of the French church which Gerson writes of hath no sympathie with that liberty which is now pretended by the state of Venice because that was founded vpon auncient Canons and this is contrary as well to the ancient Canons as the moderne â—rier Paâ—â—o Gerson hauing intention to demonstrate in eight propositions that which the most Christian King was to doe in defence of the liberty of the french Church defending it from Buls of reseruations and Papal prouisions and other abuses of the court of Rome vsed in those times sets downe eight propositions which the Author doth wisely obserue to bee better dissembled and past ouer then handled seeing plainly that to endeuour to confute them were to confirme them and to establish that which before he contradicted That Princes both ought and might oppose themselues to such commandements of Prelates as were exorbitant and vnlawfull and therefore excuseth himselfe from treating of these eight propositions for three causes First because they are grounded vpon this principle that the authority of a Councell is aboue the Popes authority and this he saith he hath declared before to bee false But he might haue added that notwithstanding his declaration it is both held and maintained by the Vniuersities of France of which Nauarra and others giue sufficient testimony Secondly because that in the Councell of Lateran vnder Pope Leo that pragmaticall Act was abrogated so as at this day there is no more talke of the liberty of the French Church The Author takes vs here to be very simple and ignorant in matter of history as if we knew not that the liberty of the french Church of which Gerson speakes was one thing and the pragmaticall decree another The one being before Gersons time but the decree was made by Charles the 7. about the yeare 1440. long after this booke was written in which his father Charles the 6. was mentioned as then liuing But why saith he not here as wel that vpon the annulling of this pragmatical decree by Leo the Vniuersity of Paris made an appeale to the next councell Hee presupposeth furâ—her that wee doe not so much as know what is a pragmaticall decree and what a particular order and whether this latter doth abrogate the former in the whole or in certain parts onely But the most bold and wilfull part of all is to belieue that we are lockt vp in a prison and know not so much as the present occurrences of the world and are ignorant whether in France there be dayly appeales from ecclesiasticall sentences to the Court of Parliament tanquam ab abusu and whether that Court doth take knowledge of them Surely the Author would be well content we were meÌ„ of this sort and that we knew no more of the world then what stood with the benefit of Church-men onely and blinded in extreame ignorance wee should hold them in admiration iust like Gods and Oracles The third cause which he alleadgeth for not touching the eight propositions of Gerson is because the liberty of the French Church which Gerson writes of was grounded vpoÌ„ antient Canons and this of the Venetians is contrary both to the antient Canons and those of latter time What truth there is in this last saying of his