by Bp. Bramhall and Dr. Heylin 't is very probable you shall receive Mr. S. his determination of your questions Till then he who thinks you have not vouchsafed to read that smal book which you pretend to answer profess magisterially to censure can not believe that you 'l find leisure to read his determinations of such questions And he hath not so much spare time as you to write and print books only for his own reading 6. Mean while I must tell you that one reason why I think you have not read over the Quaker disarmed is because you put a case and three queries in your 4th page which are answerd in the letter to Mr. E 35. Yet for your more abundant satisfaction I le answer them more particularly by asserting 1. That in your case the preaching of those shipwrackt men to pagans is no sin 2ly That in such extraordinary cases 't is lawfull for such a Congregation to choose their Teachers 3ly That such a Congregation may find fitting men full of faith to preach unto unbelievers especially if the shipwrackt men have recourse as soon as they can to the Church to ordein them as Frumentius and Aedesius did who are mentioned in the letter to Mr. E. afore-cited 7. But H. D. must give me leave to tell him that that man hath an ill mind who being in a ship well orderd usurpeth the Masters or Pilots place and takes to himself what portion of the fraight he pleases meerly because a vessell shipwrackt is sometimes thought a lawfull prey by the people on the shore And I wonder that these words should come from one that pretends to be a Minister of the Gospel unless he would imply that he hath an eager mind to shipwrack an entire vessell under faile 8. Whereas in your 5th page you fall foul upon Mr. S. for disputing with Quakers you must know that those your friends did not only challenge him and all the Clergy in England in print G. Fox's mystery in folio p. 19. preface but set up their bills of defiance upon the commencement and School doors Nay the Maiors Wife and divers other Quakers were importunate with Mr. S. to dispute who half an hour before the on set resolved to decline it and the Maior himself told Mr. S. that he was glad he would undertake them for he had oft said that they were so insolent because no man meddled with them And the case standing thus as Mr. James Alders and many others can witness I would gladly see your determination and what you have to say against S. Paul who saith 't is the duty of a Minister not only to exhort but to confute gainsayers Tit. 1. 9. 9. For the argument of three hees see p. 2. Mr. S. did not say that this was the only way of proof but that it was one He did not say that all three hee 's be three persons but that all hee s which be in Heaven are such You may see they were then speaking of the three that bear record in Heaven and I hope Mr. H. D. will stable none of his troop-horses in Heaven though they come into Pauls 10. In your 2d you would cleer G. W. from being a Papist because you say he would take no oath Ans. Others think that he will take an oath when 't is for his advantage as you may see in the queries and if that be true as Mr. S. hath reason to believe it I know no reason why he should refuse the oath unless he be a Papist Nor would Mr. S. I believe have mentioned that oath to him if he had not been assured that G. W. and H. D. are both alike bitter enemies to the old moderate way of tryal appointed by the Church of England and if you be so I am yet to learn what other way beside this oath he could have propounded 11. To your 3d. where you ask who can make sense of the story of the twelve Embassadours I answer any man but Mr. D. who is unwilling To the rest of this besides what you have been told before p. 2. l. 24. I reply that though the Father Son and H. Ghost are one essence and each of these three is every where yet that they may manifest the distinction of persons one having condescended to an incarnation whose human nature there appeared the other two did at his baptisme manifest themselves by sensible symbols Which three sensible manifestations Almighty God was pleased then to make unto mens senses in three distinct places though each of the three persons be in all places that we who are in divers places might have some apprehension of the distinct personalities 12. In your 4th you tell Mr. Smith of Luther Calvin Zuinglius as the Romanists are wont As if all those who protest against the Church of Rome for pretending to infallibilty were thereupon necessarily obliged to place the same infalibility in every Protestant Doctor And whereas you ought if you would say any thing pertinently to prove what the Protestants of the Church of England answered you tell us what the Papists in other Nations object whether truely or not I shall not now stand to examine 13. But I am glad to meet with a man that hath read ALL the books of Papists in those times and ALL their Histories I hope you would not cite them all as fitted with matter for your purpose unlesse you had read them all I entreat you to cite not all of them though the more the merrier but only one if you can in all your vast historical readings I say one Protestant of those many thousands that have defended the Church of England who hath made such an Enthusiastical answer as that of G. W. 14. In your 5th you fondly imagine T. S. stark mute divers times As first upon your saying that the first Protestant Bishops had no ordination but what they mutually gave themselves and one another Ans. If you mean by mutually as common sense requires that the Ordained did ordain the Ordainer Bishop I beseech you to prove it for 't is as false as 't is evidently known that the four Bishops-Ordeiners were Bishops before the beginning of Q. Elizabeths reign of which time onely you make this question and scruple 15. Secondly you fancy T. S. mute again upon your asking who gave them commission to make Math. Parker Arch-bishop of Canterbury Ans. The Bishops in King Edward VI's time did give them power and so commission for all Bishops have commission when fit occasion and due circumstances occur to make Mat. Parker Bishop and I doubt not but Mr. Smith as mute as you conceive him and impertinent in Manuscripts is both able and ready to show you in his own private library besides what he hath in the publick some antient records wherein you 'l find it evident that Mat. Parker was a true Bishop if you think there can any evidence arise from the testimony of a peevish adversary who lived in Matthew
an argument than if he should prove that there have been no Jesuits in England of late years because though divers have been apprehended none have been brought to Tryal 50. Concerning the Franciscan at Bristol the oath of G. Cowlishaw Ironmonger in Bristol is upon record and printed in Mr. Pryns Quaker unmaskt edit. 2. p. 3. who p. 34 c. answers to what H. D. here objects to clear the Franciscan Besides him at Bristol I could tell Mr. Denne a strange story of his Father Whitebread saying Mass about London and of another disputing for the Quakers and presently proved a masked Papist at Wolverhampton but I had rather he should have these things from others who have more leisure When he shall have considered these and other like relations which will shortly be printed at large I will desire him to tell the world whether they be groundless and unproved calumnies 51. To the next words wherein he sayes No mans innocency will be able to protect him against suspition I answer That it is not fit any man should judge how hardly Mr. Denne shall be dealt with by any suspitions further then may appear by those propositions of his which are recollected in the close of this address 52. In the very next line H. D. saith that he for his part does very confidently assure himself that if an oath were tendred to ALL the Papists in this Nation they would willingly swear that neither they themselves nor any that they know did ever use any such practise or ever thought it lawful to dissemble their Religion Wherein H. D. expresses questionlesse a greater confidence in behalf of the Jesuits then either Clark or Watson would of Robert Parsons the Jesuite or the secular Priests at this day will for the body of that Society as appears by their books which for these sixty years they have writ one against another So that H. D. is a closer friend to the Jesuites then many Romish Priests be 53. This 15th begins thus we all know 't is a fallacious way of arguing to proceed a posse ad esse as they speak at Cambridge Do not they speak so at Doway and St. Omers too and yet no better is the Argument of the Papist's Adversaries in this case Here he blames some persons under the name of Popish Adversaries sure he means to exempt himself from the number And before he is gone to the middle of this page he falls again to undertaking for the Principles of Popery and passes his word that their principles contain nothing which allowes dissimulation in Religion 54. But in the last page he will needs have Mr. S. to be a Papist for asserting that we receive the Canon of Scripture upon the Authority of the Church of all Ages and the pure spouse of Christ I would fain be told by Mr. Denne what reason he can give to his brethren Anabaptists and the Quakers why the song of Solomon should be Canon and other usefull books which bare his name Apocrypha why the Revelation of St. John should be put into the Canon 300. years after Christ and some gospells bearing the Apostles names left out but the authority of the Jewish Church for the Old and of the Christian for the New Testament But I would have him remember that to talk of the pure spouse of Christ and the Church of all ages and exclude the 12. Apostles and the first Century out of it is a discourse not becoming Mr. Dennes profession 55. Sure H. D. never saw Dr. Cosin of the Canon of Scripture nor Hooker's Ecclesiastical policy nor heard of St. Augustines non Crederem Scripturis nisi me moveret Ecclestae authoritas If Mr. S. be a Papist for this he hath these and a multitude of such good Protestant-company Popish with him 56. You ask what other Church was there in all ages but the Roman I answer unless you and I agree now upon the terms of the question we must end where we should have begun therefore first I must desire you to tell me what you mean by the Roman Church Which I shall scarce know till you answer the 20. questions that Mr. T. S. puts in the close of his preface to Daille's apology But that you may not pass without one answer I pray tell me what other Church was there in all ages but the Greek Church and those that agree with her in all or most part of what she holds particularly in believing no infallibility or Soveraign jurisdiction over all in the Bishop of Rome for which among other good doctrines the present Roman Church refuseth her Communion 57. And here you mend all at last for you no sooner hear talk of a pure spouse of Christ the Church of all ages but you apprehend it can be understood of none but the Roman Church and say plainly that to talk of a pure spouse of Christ and the Catholick church in the creed the church of all ages for those are the words in the letter that you cite is doubtless in effect to justifie the church of Rome to be a pure church 58. Thus having examined Mr. Hen. Dennes new book and Religion I shall only recollect a few positions publisht by him and his friend George Whitehead the Quaker whom he would prove to be no Papist and therefore that no Papist is a Quaker and then leave Mr. D. to turn over his Aethiopick Testament all the books of Papists and ALL their histories and leave the Reader to judge how good Protestants this fit couple be H. D. and G. W. George Whitehead besides those particulars which are mentioned in the Queries hereto annexed especially p. 14. and 16. maintaines these seven following Romish doctrines 1. That justification is by inherent righteousness and so saith no Protestant but so saith Bellarmin l. 2. de justificat c. 3. 2ly That a man may perfectly keep the law without sin so saith not Protestants but Bell: l. 4. de justif. c. 11. 12. 13. 14. 3ly G. W. denies the imputed righteousness of Christ for justification so Bell: l. 2. de justif. c. 7. 4ly G. W. affirms that Scripture is not the supream rule for trial of spirits so Bell: l. 3. de verbo Dei c. 4. 5ly G. W. hath writ an whole book against Mr. Clapham to prove that the written word is but a dead letter and carnal So saith Costerus in enchyridio p. 44. 6ly G. W. pretends to immediate Revelations and pretended miracles see Clapham and the century of queries so do the Papists unchurching them who pretend not to them as triall of a Church 7ly G. W. and the Papist both alike place much of their holiness in their beggarly apparrell in going openly with sackcloath and barefooted which I find taxed by the ancient Fathers of the Church Thus far G. W. 59. Now for Mr. Hen. Denne I hope the Reader hath ere this observed that though this book of his before us be entituled for the Quakers as I am
satisfaction if possible After you have answered the letter in Quaker Disarm'd taking in the enclosed printed paper entituled a Gag for lay-preachers which you may have neer the Little North-door of S. Pauls I shall entreat you to know because you complain of your books lying unanswered and therein a scandall and prejudice to the Protestant cause that there is a multitude of considerable books writ by Protestants in folio and other volumes against the Church of Rome which have been 20. or 30. years unanswered and are like to lye forty more 42. I shall name some first for your reading a new gag for an old goose by Bishop Mountague Bp. Franc. White and Bp. Laud and Bp. Chappell against Fisher Spalato's 3. tomes Bp. Hall Birckbeck Crackenthorp Bp. Mountague against Bullinger Dr. Tho. Jackson Chillingworth tho your friends the Jesuites have attempted to answer his pamphlet as they call it divers times and Mr. Knot was 19. or 20. years about one Then in a smaller volume so many that a bare catalogue of them would make a big book as Dr. Cosins Dr. Jer. Taylor Dr. Fern Dr. Featly Dr. Heylin Dr. Hammond of infallibility and his dispatcher dispacht These all new beside old ones Not to mention the heaps of excellent pieces of Forrainers Dailleus Moulin Blondell Calixtus Bochartus Placeus c. each of them as famous and considerable as your Jesuites 43. And yet you and they be the men that clamour against the Protestants as if they could say nothing for themselves when 't is as clear as the sun at noon that neither you in this apology nor they in their other writings have a word to alledg against us but what hath been unanswerably refelled by the forementioned Authors and others 100. times And yet you are so wise as to complain of our silence and the Jesuites for whom you here plead put forth books consisting only of questions to the same men insteed of giving them so much as one answer to their many demonstrations made against you and though some of them as Mr. G. Dr. H. c. never declined any meeting with the ablest of you and the Jesuites but attend the business as diligently as if they had nothing else to do and have been oft declined by you and them and can bring witnesses to depose where severall Romish Priests have appointed dayes and houres and at the very hour appointed sent a flam to prevent the meeting 44. But to come closer to you Mr. Denne For your part besides this scandalous false printed relation of your own here mentioned one may to use your own words guesse at the conscience and honesty of Mr. Hen. Denne by his saying not one word in his book of a publick conference held by him and the same person upon the same question at Castor in Northamptonshire But I suppose you 'l publish that when you print your publick dispute with Mr. Weller of Immanuel Colledge before the Committee at the Bear in Cambridge 45. Besides all this a reasonable man would think that Mr. Gunning having taken such paines when you disputed with him at S. Clements Church to keep the Auditors from hissing Mr. Hen. Denne quite off from the desk and dispute as divers who were there tell me they will witnesse deserves to be excused if he takes no paines to consider your pamphleting afterwards 46. The mentioning whereof minds me of your blaming Mr. T. S. for Arabick c. In answer to which I am told that though he ownes the dispute as a true matter of fact and so far his yet 't was penned by one of the auditors who took it in short-hand and then it was no absurdity to say Mr. Smith was doing that which all the University knowes he was appointed by the Vice-chancellour to do in reference to printing a Catalogue of all the Manuscripts in Cambridge which is now ready for the Press But suppose all this to be false yet it will be hard if Mr. T. S. who was deputed by Mr. Wheelock when he left Cambridge without hope of returning under hand and seal Arabick professour and hath taught that language to divers have not more skill in that tongue then you have in the Aethiopick who cannot read it and yet cited that and all other translations of the N. T. in the publick conference that you boast of at St. Clements Church without Temple-Bar saying you would stick to the AETHIOPIC And your respondent asking you whether you brought your argument from the Aethiopic copy or the Latin version You replyed with some smartness from both from both Sir Which passage together with your saying that Children cry because they are unwilling to be baptized though they neither will nor nill with divers others which you are so faithful a relater as to pass over in silence having made those thousands of people which heard you very merry might have remained buried in silence if looking into your two Books I had not met with your Aethiopic as well as Arabick 47. But now leaving your languages I returne to your Apology where 13. you say you can not see any great reason of fear or danger from the papists questionlesse your bare warrant shall secure all English men from Powder-plots hereafter 48. Your 14th you thus begin in their defence I am to say something concerning those common Brutes which are raised against Popish Priests and Jesuites as if they did secretly insinuate themselves into the Congregations of different professions in Religion To which I answer that Mr. Pryn Mr. Baxter and the rest whom you call Bedlams p. 6. 19. may cry you mercy for the report of secret insinuations for me thinks 't is open enough now or let the World judge by this book of yours 49. But let us hear what he reports these bedlams and bookmakers to say by the way did H. D. never furnish the tobacco-shop with wast paper They tell quoth H. D. of an idle fellow one Ramsey c. I wish Mr. Hen. Den were such an Idle fellow that he be likely to have the tithe of his Scholarship though he live as long again What this Mr. Ramsey is and was I desire Mr. Denne may learn from a book printed by some of very good repute in Newcastle and the depositions sent up by the Mayor of that Town with Mr. Ramsey to London some years before Mr. Prynne could hear any thing of his conference at Cambridge so that he was not imprisoned upon a bare suspicion as Mr. D. saith How he got out of the Gatehouse and what he did in Cambridge I had rather he should hear from Mr. Ratcliff and Mr. Griffith of Christs Colledge divers of St. Johns and other Colledges whom he taught Hebrew than from me who am confident I know his Religion design from other Reasons besides his frequenting Milton neer Cambridge But sure H. D's concluding that because Ramsey came not to further tryal therefore he was no disguised Papist is no better