of the catholyque faythe wyth warme wordes colde reasons oppugneth ¶ And finally for as myche as many good vertuouse folke began vpō that yll boke of dyuysyon to haue a ryght euyl opinyon of the maker him selfe `whom I for his playne confessyon of the trew faith toke take yet for a mā good catholike therfore I in many places of myne apology lay the faute fro the man hym self vnto some wyly shrewes that deceyued hym And so was myne apologye an answere also an a defence for y e person of the pacyfyer hym selfe And where he goeth about nowe for to confute yt there ys not in all the remanaunt of hys answere one pyece that any thyng appeyreth any poynte of myne Apologye How be yt of trouthe in thys poynte he goeth moste nere me For thys answere hathe he made in suche maner wyse that I shall haue nowe myche more a do then I than hadde to make any wyse man wene that euer hym selfe ment well And yet wyll I not leue yt so but styll wyll putte it from hym to some false wyly shrewes though the man do as he dothe saye contrarye therto hym selfe ¶ And the more the man denieth that thynge hym selfe the more he maketh yt lykely to be trew For when in the thynges that so playne appere so nought he rather taketh the mater all whole vppon hym then suffreth any parte to be layed from hym but if the man haue an importune pryde as by goddes grace he hath not elles is yt a sure sygne and a good token that he is suche a good symple soule as soone may be deceyued while we se that his wit serueth hym no better but that he wolde rather appere malycyouse then vnwyse ¶ But nowe that I haue proued hym that the name of Apologye may serue very well for euery pyece of my boke nowe wyll I somwhat se how the maters of his boke agree well wyth the name therof I mean not here hys boke of dyuysyon For of that boke the name and the mater agree to gether well but I meane of hys newe boke that we be nowe in hande wyth whyche boke as appereth in the fyrste fronte of the fyrst lefe ys named Salem and Bizance And therin of an hundred and syx leues for so many be in the boke there are scante fully fyftene that any thynge agree wyth the name ¶ Nowe yf he wyll saye that the communycacyon betwene Salem and Bizance ys but a bye mater besyde and that all the remanaunt bytwene they re talkynges ys the very boke thanne ys yt worse for then hathe hys booke neuer a name at all ¶ More ouer yf yt so were thenne sholde none of the thre laste chapyters bere the names that they do that is to wytte the .xxii. the .xxiii. and the .xxiiii. chapyter but lyke wyse as he calleth the begynnyng of theyr communycacyon byfore hys mater an introduccyon so sholde he haue called those thre chapyters after his mater an extraduccyon ¶ And yet I wote not well what I maye saye therof For in the begynnynge of the boke they re fyrste communycacyon ys called an introduccyon and so ys it intyteled vpon the leuys And yet in the very ende of that introduccyon byfore the fyrst chapyter the man sayeth hym selfe in the persone of Bizance that he hathe made as yet none introduccyon at all What he meaneth by thys can I not tell but yf he meane to make men wene that Salem and Bizance were two Englyshe men in dede and spake those wordes them selfe wythout any worde of hys ¶ But nowe bycause he sheweth hym selfe so connynge in greke wordes that vppon thys worde apologye he fyndeth the afore sayde faute wyth myne apology as though I were ouersene and obserued not y e nature of an Apology lette vs se howe well hym selfe that in the begynnynge calleth hys booke a dyaloge obserueth the nature and propertye of a dyaloge ¶ In y e thyrd lefe when Salē sheweth him self desyrouse to se the pacifyers answere Bizance answereth I shall cause yt to be wryten here after in this dyaloge worde for worde as yt is come to my handes and then thou shalt wyth good wyll haue yt And thou shalt vnderstande that hys answere begynneth at the nexte chapyter hereafter ensuynge and contynueth to the place where I shall shewe the that yt endeth ¶ Consyder good readers that this introduccyon he doth not bryng in as a rehersal of a cōmunicacyon hadde byfore but as a communycacyon present And thenne lette hym shewe me where euer he hathe herde in hys lyfe any two men in they re talkynge to gether diuyde theyr present cōmunycacyon into chapytres This is a poynte not onely so farre fro the nature of a dialoge but also from al reason that a very chylde wolde not I wene haue handeled the thynge so chyldyshely ¶ Also that Bizāce telleth Salem that the pacyfyers answere shall be wryten into theyr dyaloge that is to wyt to theyr communycacyon who sawe euer the lyke who sawe euer any thyng wryten into a communycacyon and wrytyng planted in among wordes spoken ¶ And what reason hath yt to tell hym where aboute in theyr communycacyon the pacifyers wordes shal begynne and where they shall ende◠as though Salem talkyng wyth Bizance hadde not the wyt to perceyue when Bizance speketh hym self and when he redeth hym the pacyfyers wordes wryten ¶ Also what a straunge monstrose beste maketh Bizance to Salem the pacifiers answere whyle he maketh as thoughe Salem coulde neyther perceyue the hed nor the tayle but yf hym selfe poynted hym to them both with a stycke More ouer where as Bizance sayth he wyll wryte it in to theyr dialoge y t is to wyt into theyr present◠talkynge as soone as it cometh to his handes so that at that word he had it not yet and than he wryteth it in euyn by and by and neyther goeth any where to fette it nor maketh any man come thyther to hym to bryng it is not this proprely deuysed ¶ Than stand they both styll there as they fyrste mete and that is in the strete by lykelyhed for there folke most comenly mete that mete at aduenture as they do and there is all the answere perused the readynge wherof standeth them at y e lest foure or fyue howres I trow How be it there I was a lytell ouersene For they stande not there styll aboute the readynge but there stande they styll both twayne all the whyle that Byzance is as you se into theyr talkynge and cōmunicacyō wrytynge it And that is but yf Bizance wryte fast I warraunt the wurke of a weke Now than at the wekes ende whan all the .xxi. chapyters are wryten Bizance in the .xxii. chapyter geueth Salem warnynge that there is the answere of the pacyfyer ended And this was by y e pacifier fole prudently deuysed For ellys wolde Salem wene that theyr owne talkynge together in the tother thre chapyters by mouth had ben styll
theÌ„ self toke y â— name euangelicall arrogantly to them self both by theuangelycall lyberty that they pretended as folke that wolde lyue vnder the gospell and vnder no mannes lawe besyde bycause they wolde also byleue nothynge ferther than y e very scrypture all which they take now vnder the name of the gospell For y e new lawe they take for nothyng ellys but for the declaracyon and perfeccyon of the olde ¶ Now whan they had taken thys name comeÌ„ly vpon them self the catholikes tellyng them y t they neyther lyued nor byleued accordynge to the gospell letted not yet to call them by the same name to that not to theyr prayse but to theyr rebuke shame And some turned in wrytyng y t name of theyrs in scorne in stede of euaÌ„gelicos wrote theÌ„ pseudo euaÌ„gelicos ¶ Now yf this man can not bere it that I call them as the old folke do though I wolde my selfe leue it for his pleasure y t wolde make ye wote well but a small chaunge For other folke wyll call theÌ„ styll yet by what name they lyst and neyther I nor he can lette them ¶ But to th entent he may be somewhat the lesse discontent with me for callynge heretykes by a good name he shal vnderstande that vpon suche occasyon such maner it is no newe begon thyng so to do For a certayne sorte there were of the heretikes that were y e Manicheis which were fyrst amonge them selfe called by y e name of Cathari that is to wyt pure and clene afterward the catholikes called theÌ„ by y e same name And so doth saynt Austayne also call theym in his wrytynge But yet he declareth bothe theyr false heresyes theyr secrete shamefull lyuyng for such that though he call them by the name of pure and clene as we call now these bretherne euangelycall yet he ment that they were neither pure nor clene in dede no more than these folke in lyuynge or bylyefe folow the very gospell in dede ¶ But than cometh he forth vppon me somwhat solempnly with a very foly and with a solempne lye For lo good readers these are his wordes I warraunt you wyse and trewe And now wyll I saye somwhat ferther concernyng thys mater and that is thys I meruayle mych how mayster More durste for offence of hys conscyence and for drede of the kynges dyspleasure and of the whole realme brynge vp such a slaunderouse name in this realme and put it in prynt that may lyghtly touche not onely many of the comon people but also of the greatest of the realme as well spyrytuall as temporall yf he and other of hys affynyte lyâ—te to call any of them one of the blessed bretherne or of the good brethern And in this poynt it semeth that he forgate the honour of the realme whyche he semed moch to regarde whan he sayd he coulde not thynke it to the honour of the realme that other realmes shuld wene that the whole clergye of this realme shulde be so farre fallen into the grudge and indygnacyon of the whole temporaltye as he sayth it is spoken to be in the sayd treatyse whyce he calleth the boke of diuisyon for certaynly it is more dyshonour to the realme to haue it noysed that the realme is full of heretykes than that the temporaltye grudgeth agaynste the spyrytualty and so he esheweth and fleeth the lesse sclaÌ„der though it were all true that he sayeth and renneth heedlynge into the greater ¶ And now wyll I saye somewhat ferther concernynge thys mater and that is thys I meruayle mych how this man durst for offence of his conscyence dyspleasure of god brynge vp suche a slaunderouse lye vppon me and wryte it in hys boke that I sholde wryte in myne apologye that the realme is full of heretykes ¶ If the case were nowe no better vppon my parte nor no wurse vpon his but that in myne apologye there coulde no suche sayenge be founden what rebuke were it yet vnto hym yf he were a man openly knowen by name as now the shame cleueth not on hys chekes but he soone shaketh it of whyle hys name is not at hys booke But nowe syth that in myne apologye I playnely wryte the contrary what wordes wyl there serue to saye to thys man the thynges that he were in this poynt wery wel worthy to here ¶ Râ—de good chrysten readers the xlvii chapyter of myne apology begynnynge in the .260 lefe and there shall you playnely se that I saye playne the contrary For where as thys pacyfyer dyd in hys boke of dyuisyon vnder the name of some other bylye of lykelyhed some of the spyrytualty than surmyttynge that they as of polycy noysed that the realme is full of heretykes more than it is in dede as he now bylyeth me here surmysynge that I do say the same ye shall there se that I shewe it to be vnlykely y t any polytyke spyrytuall man wolde so saye for polycy syth so to say were for them for the cause that I there shew very far agaynst good polycy And there I ferther shew y t some heretykes haue â—alsely made that noyse and there I tell for what cause And afterward iÌ„ foâ— 268. I shew y t for all theyr besy bragyng they be yet in dede but a few ¶ Now good reades whan I thus haue wryten there in both the places so open and so playne that the realm is not full of heretykes nor hath ther in but a few though y â— few be in dede ouer many growen mo also by neglygence in some parte than there hath bene in some late yeres passed how may this man fynde in his harte for shame to wryte in this wyse and as it were with such authoryte so solempnely chekke me falsely for writyng y t the realm is full thaÌ„ excuse his lyke fawte by myne yet in the coÌ„parison make myne the greater to But now is all the craft of y e comparyson dyscouered the glory of that argumeÌ„t defaced whyle you se y t his fawt is trew that myne he feyneth fyndeth not in myn boke but playn and expressely the contrary and that he spynneth that fyne lye without flex fetchyng it out of his own body as the spider spynneth her cobwebbe And thus is my fawte fayre wyped awaye hys lyeth styll in his necke and another now layed vnto it ¶ Now as thys was no lytell foly for hym to lese his credence with that openlye that myght be so soone and so playnely controlled and reproued so is his fyrst poynt also no lesse foly than that wherin he merueyleth so mych that I dare for my conscyence and for dyspleasure of my prynce of the whole realme brynge vp that slaunderouse name in the realme to call these heretykes the bretherne consyderynge that it maye lyghtely touche not onely any man of y e comen people but also of the greatest of the realme as well spyrytuall as temporall yf eyther
a man in London betwene this and Michelmas shold they neuer haue semed lyke vnto our mater by that tyme that I had ones declared them the dyfference ¶ These poyntes and happely mo to was I wheÌ„ I redde his answere halse mynded as I saye to haue brought in and dysputed wyth hym vpon this mater For I was waxen with y e readyng of his answere very mery and waxen me thought a yong man agayn and semed set at a vacacyon mote with hym in some Inne of the chauncery bycause of hys comen entendement and his proper casys of lawe ¶ But than I consydered that as I was in the redynge of his answere mery so was hym selfe I saw well in the wrytynge wery and other readers that were no lawyers wolde in the readynge waxe almost as wery Than sawe I also that whan hym selfe had all sayed he lyked not hys owne all the beste but after all hys payne taken in the answeryng seyng that his answere lyked hym not he was fayne to fall to another waye telleth me that there nedeth none answere to that poynte at all bycause that there is no frute he sayth in that obieccyon ¶ Now therfore yf thobieccyon be frutelesse and therfore thanswere nedelesse and verily frutelesse to nowe to reply thereto were labour halfe loste and more And therfore good readers for as myche as to the answere made by the maner no law putteth vs ferther to reply y e mater is at a demurrour in thys poynt and we at your iugemeÌ„t wherein ye may vse your wysedome and iuge it euyn as you fynde it Wherin the best that he can aske is but to be dysmyssed iudge that he ment not to preferre the state of chauntry prestes before the state of relygyouse persoÌ„s but ment as he now declareth his minde whiche very few folke coulde before as I suppose haue gessed that the varyaunce bytwen prestes and prestes that is to wyt bytwene seculare prestes and seculare prestes is more to be lamented than bytwene prestes relygyouse or bytwene relygyouse and relygyouse bycause y e varyauÌ„ce bytwene prestes and prestes is more marked and more notable than any of the tother bycause the prestes go more abrode Now yf this exposicyoÌ„ of his mynde may serue to quyte hym now which I am content it do it is all I promyse you that it maye do For it wyll neuer serue hym to recouer dammages For he can neuer blame no man that perceyued not that before that is skant credyble yet ¶ But yet bycause he so myche incusketh the lacke of fruyte in many of myne obieccyons and that they be no maters of no morall vertue I wyll not answere hym wyth the lyke and saye that in many of hys pretended causes of dyuisyon is no fruit at all nor no morall vertue neyther as in procurynge the people to byleue vntrewly that the prelates handle men vncherytably and for heresyes vexe them wrongfully geue occasyoÌ„ that some peryshe both in body and soule whyche yf the ordynaryes had handeled them cherytably had ben in bothe twayne saued and that it wylbe very harde to fynd so myche as any one spyrytuall man suche as hym selfe deuyseth and aduyseth that none but suche sholde be suffred to be iudge in heresye and laborynge also the good lawes of thys realme and of all chrystendome to be chaunged to the ease of heretykes y t haue ben made for the repressynge of heresyes wyth suche other thynges lyke that are in his boke of dyuysyon mo than I euer wrote worde of yet in whiche as I haue often sayd for as mych as I seÌ„ y t he professeth hym selfe to hate and abhorre these heresyes y t these folke now holde whom saynt poule calleth heretikes I dare not now for hym but whan I forget my selfe call theym by none other name I wolde with good wyll that men shold thynke he ment none hurt But in the wordes of the wrytynge taken after the comen vsage and acceptaunce of spekynge as he wyll in thys his .vii. chapyter haue me take them there is neyther morall vertue nor frute but full vnfrutefull vyce ¶ But as I sayd I wyll not in defence of myneâ— answere hym with y e fawtes of his For myne were neuer the better though his be nought to But I saye that myne obieccyons in myne apologye be not frutelesse bycause they defende the truthe make good folke ê‘ceyue both what harme it were to byleue suche euyll lyes what dammage it were to put awaye suche good lawes and how vnreasonable it were in other mennes fawtê to take small thyngê for very heyghnouse and great or for them that in a felesshyp are fawty not to bere dyspleasure onely to theyr persons but to be at dyuysyon in generall wyth the whole company And this fruitis there also that though that boke saye the contrary straungers such as are here and can rede englysshe whyche are not ye wote well a few many yet perceyue by playne proues in myne apologye that not onely there is no suche great generall causes of dyuysyon as the booke of dyuysyon sayth that there is but also that there is no such great generyll dyuysyoÌ„ thorow the realme in dede These fruytes are there in many of myne obieccyons agaynste hys booke in myne apologye ¶ Now where as some of myne obieccyons peradueÌ„ture say but eyther lacke of lernynge in hym or lacke of naturall wytte syth his name is not at his boke but he speketh hym selfe vnknowen this profyte is there in suche obieccyons that wythout hys rebuke or shame the readers may by those fawtes perceyue that the wryter was not of any such specyall qualytees as the booke wherin so mych euyll was conteyned sholde be mych lened vnto for credence and authoryte of the man ¶ Finally the very selfe obieccyon wherof he speketh in y t seuenth chapyter of his in his new booke sayth there is no profyte in that obieccyon and that therfore it neded none answere but he myght graunte me all that euer I saye therin and yet none effectuall mater were there for all that therto I saye that loke who so lyste what I saye therin and he shall fynde that yf this man graunte all y t he shal grauÌ„te in hym self mych more ouersyghte mych more lacke of lernyng to than were requysyte in hym that wold put out bokes abrode and therfore hys wrytyng the lesse to be regarded whyle hys person is vnknoweÌ„ where as yf his person were knowen he myght be peraduenture perceyued for all that for suche a specyall man by syde that hys approued wysedome and lernyng well knoweÌ„ otherwyse myght for thestimacyon of his boke more than countrepayse some suche ouersyghtes as at a tyme myght happely to scape a right wyse man y t wolde wryte by candellyght whyle he were halfe a slepe ¶ But than I say ferther yet that in that obieccyon was a mater of no lytell effect For takyng that he ment as
suche dyuysyon or not And after he sayth that in the tother place I confesse that there ys a dyuysyon and call yt there the late sprongen dyuysyon Lo nowe he forgetteth thys lytle shorte worde this monasyllable Suche whych he rehersed fyrste in bryngynge forthe my fyrste place and then by and by eyther of forgetefulnes or ellys of wylynesse leueth oute in hys illacyon that he maketh vppon the same wordes of myne ¶ Nowe good readers you se well that to saye there is a dyuysyon and to saye there ys no suche dyuysyon be nothynge contrarye at all For I dyd in dede not deny but that some dyuysyon there was that ys to wytte some lytle varyaunce in some place begonne and by some fewe naughtye folke blowne forthe to farre For a lytle waye ys to farre in suche a thyng But than meane I a dyuysyon such as yt ys not suche a dyuysyon as thys man by hys booke maketh yt I maye well wythoute contradyccyon saye to hym There ys a dyuysyon and yet saye that there ys no suche dyuysyon as he speketh of For yt is not all one to saye there ys a dyuysyon and â—o saye there ys suche a dyuysyon ¶ Nowe yf I wolde stycke wyth hym vpon tryflys I coulde proue hym that If dothe not alwaye purporte a doute as he sayeth that yt alwaye dothe but ys sometyme vsed to conferme a certayntye As yf a man say he that dyeth in dedely synne shal go to the deuyll yf goddes word be trewe douteth not of the trouthe of goddes worde but by the trouthe therof meaneth to coÌ„ferme the damnacyon of theym that dye in dedely synne ¶ But I saye not this as though yt sholde be lyke in myne For I do not in dede take If there in such fashion And therfore I wyll not do here by If as thys man doth by As in hys chapyter nexte byfore in heresyes spoken as of polycye vsynge y e sample of wordes spoken by a good man in reprochynge of hypocrysee to be lyke hys owne wordes spoken in the mynyshynge of they re blame that vnder suche pretexte of polycye wolde speke and sow aboute playne and open heresye I nede here no suche wayes for my wordes For here haue you sene your selfe by his owne wordes that there ys in my wordes no contradyccyon at all The .xiii. chapyter HIs .xiii. chapiter begynneth in the xxxix lefe and by y e rehersynge of diuerse wordes of his owne in dyuers other places of his boke here he declareth his mynde that he entended not in his boke of diuysyon to brynge in among the people any hatered agaynste the spyrytualtye ¶ Now in dede I do my self declare expressely in many places of myne apologye that what so euer wordes I speke therin yet I ment euer more th entent of hys boke and not of hys person And all though that in some places I say the pacyfyer here doth this or that to this euyll purpose or that yet I mene euer the dede his the malyce of the purpose some other wyly shrewys whyche not beynge fully of so good catholyke mynde as I thynke all waye this man is hym self which openly dysprayseth these new broched heresyes and with detestacyon of them reherseth them by name haue abused his playn simplycyte makyng him wene good sowle y u while he dyd put in of his own good mynde these good wordes whych he reherseth here and with them here there in some sondry places pretyly powder y e boke it coulde not be taken that there were any hurt ment in the hole worke togyther how euyll wordes and how malycyouse so euer the sotle shrewys made hym stuffe vp y e boke with bysyde Was not that a synful wily way of theÌ„ to begyle a good symple soule so For I wysse it is eth to se that yf the good man were not of hym self very simple playn those dowble wyly shrewes coulde neuer deceyue hym so as to make hym wene that these wordes whych he reherseth here in his .xiii. chapyter were any maner token that his boke of diuisyon ment not to brynge the clergye in hatered amonge the people ¶ For who were there that so intendynge wolde yet for shame vtterly say that there were none good and not rather to kepe his credence in slawnderynge the body wolde caste in sometyme an excepcyon of some In suche crafte is no great sleyght It is but a comen playne poynt and as easy to spye as a longe nose vpon a lytell face specyally whyle as clerely as he sayth that there be many good yet as you maye se folio .238 of myne apology he sayth playnely that it is harde to fynde any one with out that poynt that yf he saye therin trew the very beste is very nought and as badde as a very beste And for y e ferther profe of this point rede myne answere to hys .xvii. chapyter in thys boke ¶ And where he speketh here of the fere that he wold euery man sholde haue of the leste censures of the chyrche as though he therin ment myche the fauour of spyrytuall men consyder the place euyn here in hys new boke where he speketh of inquysycyons oâ— heresyes in his .xvii. chapyter and you shall well perceyue that they that made hym there put those wordes in ment lytell good to y e clergye For it is there layed in a mater full chyldyshly to theyr charge as though they wolde haue all the iustyces of the peace and all the iuryes of the realme accursed for enquyrynge of heresye ¶ But yet is it of all thyngê a vâ—ry specyall pleasure to se how he vseth here for a playne apparent profe of hys good mynde towarde the spyrytualty that he wisheth wel for them and prayeth god to sende them habuÌ„dauntely zele of sowles pitye good doctryne and deuowt prayour And sayth that than a new lyght of grace sholde shortely shyne c. and that he sayth also that it is great pytye and mych to be lamented that the spyrytualtye do not faste and praye and do other good dedes to ceace the dyuysyon withall but y t all that euer they do therin moste comenly is that they take it that they that fynde defawte at theyr abusyons and mysse order loue no prestes but do all of malyce that they do to destroye the chyrche and to haue theyr goodes and possessyons them selfe and that therfore the clergye thynke it a good dede to se them punyshed and therfore that is to saye for that same cause haue they punyshed many persons which mych people iudge to haue ben done of wyll c. And sayth also that they do coÌ„tinue styl after theyr old course preteÌ„dyng by coÌ„federacyes worldly polycye and strayte correccyons to rule the peple where he vseth these thynges whyche I haue here rehersed out of his .xiii. chapiter of this his newe boke and somwhat made them more playne with addyng therto his owne other wordes wryten in his diuysyon as you maye rede
rebuke of so many good worshypfull men make a boke of diuisyoÌ„ therin write euery lewde worde that any lewde folke or any false shrewes wolde tell hym Whose euyll tonges the spyrytualtye can neuer appease but yf to please theÌ„ they sholde dysplease god and without lettynge heresyes growe and go forth shold them selfe rather do euyll than let lewde folke speke euyll ¶ And now to th entent good reders that you may the more clerely se to how lytell purpose the pacifyer hath in thys poynt answered me ye shall vnderstande that my wordes in myn apology whiche he wold seme to answere well here were these fo 257. But yet is thys pacyfyer not so fauourable towarde folke suspected of heresye as to take away the power of the byshoppe for euer of arrestynge them and to dryue the ordynaryes for euer to sue cytacyons agaynst heretykes and processe of excommunicacyon but wyll haue he sayeth the bysshoppes power of arrestynge no lenger suspended thanne as longe as spyrytuall menne haue that great desyre to cause menne abiure or to haue theym punysshed for heresye as though he hadde well proued that they haue so bycause he sayeth that some men say so But now yf Some say be no sufficyent profe than is hys tale lost For than he sheweth no cause why that power of theyrs sholde in any case be more suspeÌ„ded now than in any time here before And on the tother syde yf some say be a good profe than the â—uspendynge wyll be as longe as a depryuynge for euer syth there shall neuer be any tyme in whyche there shall lacke one or other some saye to saye more than trouth ¶ Lo good readers here you se that vnto the secunde parte of these wordes of myne he answereth nothynge at all And than haue you sene before that vnto the fyrste hys answere is so feble that it had ben better for him to haue done therwyth as he dothe wyth the tother leue it vnanswered to ¶ But nowe goeth he ferther and saith Then sayth mayster More yet ferther that which is a lyghte suspycyon and whyche is a heuy and whyche wytnes be suffycyent and whych not must be weyed by the spyrytuall iudges and vppon theyr weyinge of the mater for lyght or heuy to folowe the arrest of the party or the leuynge of the arrest Now veryly in thys poynt me thynketh that mayâ—â—er More maketh a ryght good mocyon that is to saye that the mater shulde be examyned before the arreste For it hath ben sayd in tymes paste that in suche caâ—e the arrest hath many tymes gone before the examynacion Neuerthelesse vnder what maner the examynacyon and the arrest shulde be made in suche case I wyll make no deuyse at this tyme For happely mayster More wold anone fynde a defawt at it and therfore I wyll leane it to them that haue auctoryte to treate ferther of it and to dyuyse how to auoyde the mase that mayster More speketh of in hys sayd .xlvi. chapyter ¶ Now good readers this man maketh here as though I hadde geuen hym in my wordes some greate aduauntage to grouÌ„de some great mater vppon And therfore I shall reherse you what my wordê were that your selfe maye se how sore I ouersaw my selfe therin and what he meneth by the mase that he nameth here These are lo my wordes in myne apologye fo 257. yet is he content at the laste leste euery man myghte spye the perell of hys deuyce to temper hys deuyce in suche wyse that tyll the spyrytualty haue lefte theyr cruell desyre of abiurynge and punysshynge folke for heresye they sholde not be suffred to arreste folke for euery light suspycyon or euery complaynt of heresye How be it he graunteth that where one is openly and notably suspected of heresye and suffycyeÌ„t recorde and wytnes agaynst hym bysydes all that a dowte that he wolde fle wherby he myghte enfecte other than he grauÌ„teth it conuenyent that he shold be arrested by the body And therin he bryngeth in the Clementine and the statute by whcih the ordinaries haue power to arrest folâ—e for suspycyon of heresye and wold as farre as I perceyue haue the kynge reforme them after hys deuyce But yet syth whych is a lyght suspycyoÌ„ and whych is an heuy and whych is a lyght coÌ„playnt and whych is an heuy and whych is an open suspycyon and whyche but a preuy and whyche suspycyon ys notable and whyche is not notable and whyche wytnesses be suffycyent and which be not suffycyent be thynges that must be wayed by the spyrytuall iudges and vppon theyr wayâ—nge of the mater for lyght or heuy muste folowe the arrestynge of the party or the leuynge of the arreste we be come agayne as in a mase to the poynt where we beganne that be the mater greate or smale lest all the whyle they be cruell they shold iudge lyghte heuy and smale greate theyr arrestynge of any at all muste be susspended fro them and sende them to sue by cytacyon tyll men se that same mynde of theyrs of desyryng mennes abiuracyon and punysshement vtterly chaunged and ceace that is to say tyll there be no man lefte that wyll so mysche as saye that some men saye that they haue not lefte that mynde yet and make a lye agayne of theym than as those some haue done that haue so sayde all redy to syr IohnÌ„ some say now And longe wyll it be I warraunt you ere euer all suche folke fayle And therfore syth in the mean season by thys pacyfyers good deuyse hereâ—tykes maye go vnarrested I can not byleue that yf his way were folowed it wold be any good meane to make that wylful offenders in heresy shold not passe vnpunysshed as faste as bothe in the ende of thys chapyter the tother before also he calleth vpoÌ„ the kynges hyghnes and hys counsayle and hys parleament to loke vppon thys mater after his good aduertysement and neuer ceace tyll they brynge it to effecte ¶ Here you se good readers bycause thys man wyth hys deuyces bryngeth hym selfe into a mase out of whyche he can not se how to gete he wold now set other folke to study there about And wolde make theym very carefull aboute a thynge lytle nedefull For it hath well appered well ben proued to that the spyritual iuges haue yet hytherto in arrestyng for heresy ryght well examyned and considered fyrst bothe the cause and the necessyte haue ben rather therin many tymes to slow than any tyme ouer hasty And therfore I maye and wyll say here agayn as I sayd there that I lytell dowte but that yf the kynges hyghnes do as I dowte not but his hyghnes wyll do maynteyne and assyste the spyrytualty in executyng of the lawes euyn those y t are all redy made agaynst heresyes coÌ„maunde euery teÌ„porall officer vnder hym to do y e same for his part though ther were neuer mo new laues made therfore yet shall both innocentes be saued harmelesse
The debellacyon of Salem and Bizance THe Debellaâ—yon of Salem and Bizans somtime two great townê which being vnder y e great turke were byâ—wene Easâ—er and Michelmaâ— last passed thys present yere of our lord M.v. C. thyrty 〈◊〉 with a meruelouse metamorphosyâ— enchaunted and turned into two englyshe men by the wonderful inuentyue wytte and wychecrafte oâ— Syr IohnÌ„ Some saye the Pacifiar and so by hym coÌ„uayed hyther in a Dialoge to defende his dyuysyoÌ„ agaynst y e Apology of Syr Thomas More knyght But now beyng thus bytwene the sayde Mychelmas Halowentyde nexte ensuâ—â—â—e in thys Debellacion vaâ—â—â—â—shed they be flâ—dde â—ense and vanyshed are bycome two townys agayne wyth those old names chauÌ„gedâ— Salem into Hierusalem and Bizancâ— into Constantinople the tone in Grece y â— tother in Syria where they may se them that wyll wynne them that can And if the Pacifier conuaye them hyther agayne tenne suche other townys with them embatayled in suche dyaloges â—yr Thomas More hath vndertaken to put hym selfe in thaduenture alone agaynst them all But and yâ— he lette them tary styll there â—he wyll not vtterly forswere it but he is not mych mynded as yet age now so coÌ„mynge on warynge all vnwyeldy to go thider geue thassaulte to such well walled townys wythout some suche lusty company as shal be somewhat lykly to lepe vp a lytell more lyghtly ¶ The preface Syr Thomas More to the chrysten readers IF any man meruayle as I wene some wyse menne wyll that euer I wold vouchsaufe to bestow any time about makynge answere to the pacyfyers dyaloge consyderynge his faynt his feble reasonyng I can not in good fayth wel excuse my selfe therin For as I sodaynly went in hande therwyth and made it in a breyde so whaÌ„ I synnys considered how lytell nede it was I merueyled myne owne selfe and repented to that I hadde not regarded the boke as it was wurthy and without any one worde let it euyn alone ¶ How be it good reders what one thynge or twayne specyally moued me to make answere to it and how it happed me to fall in hand therwyth and to spende and lese a lytell tyme about it to make the mater the more playne vnto you that thynge shall I shew you ¶ As soone as myne apologye was ones come out abrode anone herde I worde that some were very wrothe therwyth And yet in my mynde had there no man cause neyther precher nor pacyfyer no nor none heretyke neyther For I hadde but spoken for my selfe and for good folke and for the catholyke fayth without reproch or reprofe to any mannes person or wyllyng any man any harme y t were wyllyng to mende And who so were wyllyng to be nought styll had cause to be wroth wyth hym self you wote well and not with me ¶ But all this wolde not serue me for very wroth were they wyth me Howbeit theyr causelesse anger dyd not gretely greue me For I was not so farre vnreasonable as to loke for reasonable myndes in vnreasonable menne ¶ But than herde I shortely that thykke threfolde the pennys went to wurke and answeres were a makyng diuerse by dyuerse very great cuÌ„nyng meÌ„ And of this trayuayle of such great mouÌ„tayne hyllys I herd myche speche made almoste euery weke so ferforth that at laste it was tolde me for trouth that vnto one lytell pyece one greate cunnynge man had made a long answere of twelue whole shetys of paper wryten nere to gyther and with a smale hande ¶ But in good fayth I coulde but laugh at that For as for that pyece I was very sure that the cuÌ„nyngest man that coulde come therto neyther in tenne shetys nor in tenne querys neyther wryte as nere as he coulde sholde neuer answere it well ¶ For that pyece was the answere y t in myne apalogye I make as you se there vnto certayne sermons wherin my dyaloge was towched for wrytynge agaynst Tyndals false translacyon And wherin was also defended agaynst my confutacyon Tyndals wyse chapyter in which agaynst my dyaloge he laboreth to proue that the worde was before the chyrche in all his chapyter neuer towcheth y e poynt and the sermon that defended hym walketh as wyde as he ¶ It was tolde me as I say that answere was made to that place and what shyfte there was founde to the remanaunt that coulde I not here But to the fyrst poynt I herde saye that there was deuysed ' that where as I reherse that the precher spake of poysoned brede I rehersed hym wrong For he spake but of moulden brede And this pyece it was tolde me that in y t new answere it was reasoned at length set forth very lusteâ—y ¶ But come the boke abrode onys I shall sone abate that corage For fyrst syth he taketh recorde y t he sayd but mouldy brede yf I brynge wytnesse also that he said poysoned bred than can his wytnesse stande hym in none other stede but for to proue for hym that he sayd bothe ¶ Secundly shall I proue that he sayd poysened brede by such meanes that men shall se by reason y t though the tother were possyble yet was it farre vnlykely ¶ Finally shal I ferther proue that though y e man had sayd not poysened brede but onely moulden brede yet shall I proue I saye that as the case stode that same not poysened brede but moulden brede was yet for all that a very poysened worde ¶ Heryng therfore that this gaye boke was made of the .xii. shetys of paper lacked but ouerloking that many mo were iÌ„ hand y e shortly shold come out lyke as an husband whose wife were in her trauayle herkeneth euery hande whyle and fayne wold here good tydynges so syth I so myche herde of so sore trauayle of so many so cunnynge aboute dyuerse answeres I longed of theyr longe laboure to se some good spede and some of those fayre babes borne that they trauayled on ¶ And when these great hyllys had thus trauailed longe from the weke after Ester tyll as myche afore Mycheâ—mas the good houre came on as god wold y e one was broughte a bed with sore labour at laste deliuered of a dede mouse The moder is yet but grene good soule hath nede of good kepyng women wote what caudell serueth agaynst her after throwes ¶ Now after that the boke was out and came into myne handes and that I sawe the maner and the fashyon therof two thynges onely moued me to wryte and medle wyth yt One that I sawe therin folowed and pursewed the selfe same shrewed malicyouse intent that was purposed in his fyrst boke of diuysyon that is to wyt to make thordynaryes with fere of slaunder and oloquye seue theyr dutyes vndone and lette heretyques alone and ouer that wyth an euyl newe chaunge of good old lawes labour to putte heretyques in corage and therby decaye the fayth ¶ This was in dede the very specyall poynte
not or that he wolde do so no more take all the mater for saufe and than say that he wolde not haue that order all waye kepte but onely in suche dayngerouse tymes as many folke wolde fall to thefte For than were yt good to spare theim and speke them fayre and suffer theym tyll they wolde waxe fewer of them selfe and than after that vse agaynste theym the lawis the old order again Wold not thys wyse waye trowe you do well in thefte For sothe yt were awaye as farre vnwyse as farre agaynst reason in heresy as eyther in theft or murder or any other maner cryme ¶ And surely me semeth y â— where he calleth this a dayngerouse tyme he vseth a very daungerous worde and to fere the ordynaryes wyth all wolde make the worlde wene that heretyques were here so many and so stronge that thordynaryes myght not nowe do they re dutyes in subduynge heresyes wythoute great daungeour Wherin there is as great daungeour yet and shall I dout not in the kynges graces days that now is and longe mote be as there ys in the parynge of an apple Howe be yt I wyl not denye hym thys inded but that yf suche daungerouse wordes of his dyuysyon may make thordynaryes aferd of they re owne shawdow a whyle yt may grow to some daunger at the laste ¶ But than goeth â—e farther with a nother remedye that I truste in god shall neuer nede For I truste in god there neuer shall in thys realme any suche great personage fall into heresye as thordynarye dare not procede accordynge to the law agaynste hym Howe be yt in case yt shold happenâ— than this good man prouideth for the remedy to say the trouth very wel that is to wyt that thordynary sholde haue recourse vnto the kynge that his hyghnes vppon petycyon made vnto hym and informacyon geuyn hym maye as no doute were there but he wolde wyth his royall assystence prouyde a meane suffycyent y t the course of the lawe myght ê“cede ¶ This is wel deuised And here in he plaieth the good kow geueth vâ— a good galon of mylke But thaÌ„ shal you se howe he playeth the shrewde know agayne and turneth ouer the payle euyn by and by wyth his hele For vppon this good deuise he forth with addeth this shrewd sayeÌ„g to yt But as longe as there is an opynyon amonge the peple that the ordinaryes theyr offycers wil geue lytght credence vppon informacyons made to theym of heresye and that they wyll noyse theym that be complayned on aâ— heretyques before dew examynacyon in that behalfe so long wyll the peple grudge and peradueÌ„ture the kynge not geue hys assystence so redyly to haue them attached as he wolde do yf he herde that the ordynaryes noysed no man to be an heretyque wythout dew examynacyon as is before rehersed ¶ If this good man had as myche wyt as I se wel he lacketh I wold wax euyll content with hym that he shold ones conceyue any such opynyon of the kinges graciouse hyghnes as that his grace wold any thynge be the more remysse to geue royall assystence vnto thordinaries about y e attachiÌ„g of such as are suspect of heresy as longe as hys grace herde that thordynaryes noysed that any man were an heretyque wythoute suche dewe examynacyon as this man afore rehersed For the kynges hygh prudence very wel perceiueth that if he sholde forbere tyl that tyme that he sholde here no suche thynge sayde by theym yt were almoste as myche to say as he shold geue no asystence agaynste heretykes tyl al heretykes were gone For neuer shall there lacke suche a false sedycyouse fame agaynste the ordynaryes as longe as there are heretyques here there to sowe it and suche sedycyouse bokes of dyuysyon with such vntrew Some sayes to blowe yt farther abrode The vntrouth of such false fame hath ben before the kinges honorable counsayle of late well and playnely proued all redy vppon sondry suche false complayntes by the kinges gracyouse commaundement examyned And all be it that this is a thynge notoriousely knowen and that I haue also my selfe in myne apologye spoken thereof and that synnys that boke gone abrode it hath ben in lyke wyse before the lordes well playnely proued in mo maters a fresshe and all be it that this water wessheth awaye all his mater yet goeth euer this water ouer this goosys backe for any thynge that any man can do no man can make it synke vnto the skynne that she maye ones fele it but euer she shaketh such playne proues of with her fethers of Some say and they say the contrary Is not this a prety proper way And therfore thus you se good reders that this maÌ„nes deuicys in his order to be taken with suche as speke heresyes be very vicyouse and haue they neuer so fayre a fleryng at the fyrste face yet whaÌ„ they be coÌ„sydered well they be founden farre worse thaÌ„ nought And yet was I not mynded as you maye se to haue examyned them so farre sauynge that euyn whyle I was in writynge of this chapyter and about to leue of worde was brought me that thys deuyce of his order for heresye was with some folke whom my self haue knowen so specyally well commended ¶ But yet wyll thys man say in effecte so he dothe mayster More wyll not say for all thys that euery thynge that a man speketh whiche yf he obstynately wolde holde he wâ—re an heretyke is inough to iudge euery such man an heretyke as doth in any maner speke it ¶ I wyll not at thys tyme varye with this good man for that nor dyspute with hym vppon the trouth of y e tale there be so many maner waies of spekynge For a man maye speke therof in dysprayse therof But this wyll I saye to hym That tale and such other lyke were they neuer so trewe were yet as me semeth mych better out of his englysshe prented booke than in it ¶ For yf he thynke it necessary to wryte it bycause of any folke whom he thynketh necessary to lerne it eyther he meneth that they nede it whiche are the spyrytuall iudges or els the comen people Now as for the iudges veryly I haue knowen and do knowe many of them yet knewe I neuer none so symple of wyt nor so farre vnlerned but for any wyt or lernyng that I perceyue in this man the wurste of theym wyste a greate dele better what perteyned vn to theyr parte and theyr dutye in suche poyntes as these are than doth thys good man here ¶ Than yf he saye he putteth it in bycause that though they knowe it they mysse vse it and do the contrary and so do therby misse handle the kynges people and put theym to cruell punyshement vniustely than I aske hym how he proueth that lye to be trew Therto ye wote well he wyll brynge forth for the playne profe of his playn trouth in the mater his old
not agree nor stande to gether And therfore me thynketh yt wolâ—e not be so lyghtly passed â—ueâ— as mayster More doth passe yt ouer For yt is a dangerous thynge to fall into the lefte censure of the chyrche ¶ There were two causes for whyche I answered hym not one a generall cause concernynge all hys maters of lawes of the chyrche wherin he fyndeth fautes of whych I shall speke afterwarde A nother specyall cause there was concernynge thys excoÌ„munycacyon And that was that me thought yet thinke that he spake therin so chyldyshely that I was a shamed on his byhalfe to medle with yt and to make open hys chyldyshe handlynge therof ¶ But nowe syth I se hym compte for so great a conqueste that he put me to sylence therin what purpose can he dyuyse for whyche I sholde haue answered any thynge to that poynt had I made any professyon to proue euery worde wronge that he sayd in all hys hoke he knoweth that I sayde not that I wolde medle but wyth those certayne thynges that I there speke of ¶ But now suppose that there were in that law such faute as he allegeth what could myne answere ameÌ„de the mater or his boke of diuisyon either If men were accursed as he mysse taketh it could my boke or his boke take away the curse No but we may put the parlyament in mynde to make a lawe His boke alone is as able to put theym in remembraunce therof as hys and myne to gether And yet for that poynte neyther nedeth myne nor hys neyther For the parlyament hath made all redy a lawe for these inquysycyons Whych yf thy myght lawfully make in such forme as they haue as I am sure they myght theÌ„ am I sure y t they fall not in excoÌ„munycacyon for it Now if they myghte not laufully make it therby fel ther in what could the parlyameÌ„t farther adde vnto it that might deliuer them of yt And therfore I can not in good fayth se to what purpose he wrote of that poynte hym selfe ¶ No but thys lawe is one great cause of dyuisyon betwene the spyrytualtye and the temporaltye That wolde I very fayne wyt howe For temporall men be not I wote well so farre ouersene as to be angry wyth the spyrytual men here now for that lawe that a pope made at Rome ere they were borne And the spyrytuall men haue also as lytle cause agayn of any grudge agaynst the temporaltye for the mater And therfore why he sholde put yt in hys boke of dyuysyon for a cause of diuisyon I can dyuyse no reason Foras for that that he wolde shold seme a cause here is to vnresonable where he sayth As long aâ— that law siddeth so vnrepelled sâ—me prestes that se yt wyll saye that they that do agaynste yt be accursed and so may lyghtly fall theâ—by into a wrongfull and vntrâ—w iudgement whych though yt be no great offence oneles yt be of pryde by dyspysynge of the temporall power in that behalfe yet yt wolde be eschewed And also yf they that be so noysed to be accursed here of yt they wyll be dyscoÌ„tented And so grudges and varyaâ—nces maye ryse and encrease by occasyon of yt ¶ Thys is a very colde tale as dede as euer was dore nayle For before hym selfe broughte in thys babelynge of his owne about that lawe whych babelyng is yet as I haue shewed you to no purpose at all I neuer herd any maÌ„ talke any such worde of that lawe in my dayes nor in good fayeth no more I wene dyd he neyther ¶ Nor I dare saye he hereth no where yet any prestes saye that the iustyces of the peace be accursed for enquyrynge agaynste heresyes none I dare saye but suche prestes as be heretyques And therfore thys whole tale of his saue for the malice that yt meaneth ys euyn a very tryâ—lynge ¶ For as for y e mocyoÌ„ y t he maketh so often to haue that lawe repelled bycause yt is he sayth agaynst the lawes of the realme excepte he mokke I wote nere what he meaneth For yf the realme here may repell yt theÌ„ by y t the law is here made to the coÌ„trarye yf yt were contrary as yt is not yt is repelled all redy And yf he thynke that the realme here can not reâ—ell yt thenne wereto wryteth he and prenteth that pyece in his boke of dyuysyon as a thynge for whyche the temporaltye the spyrytualty of thys realme sholde fall in varyauâ—ce for where neyther the makynge nor the repellynge lyeth in neyther nother of theyr handes ¶ But surely the repellyng though yt be the thyng that is spokeÌ„ of is not yet the thynge y t ys ment in thys mater as yt aypereth in these wordes And therfore me thynketh yt wolde not be so lyghtly paâ—sed ouer as mayster More doth passe yt ouer For yt is a daungeroâ—s thynge to fall into the lefte censure of the chyrche And yf yt be sayde that the sayde lawe ys voyde bycause the chyrche hadde no authoryte to make yt And that yt is therfore not to be fered And I wyll yet say therto that though yt were voyde that yet as longe yt standeth so not repelled yt were good to eschewe it and not to fal wylfully into the dauÌ„ger of yt and therfore yt were better to repelle yt then to lette yt stande styll and rather do hurte then good ¶ Here you may se good readers that where as otherwyse to repell that law then it is repelled lyeth not in oure handes yf oure lawe were agaynste yt and where as of â—routhe yt nedeth no repellynge at all but the lawe of the realme standeth ther wyth well ynough he maketh as though al â—he iustyces of peaâ—e were accursed there by as ofte as they geue the iuryes in charge to enquyre of heresye therfore leste they sholde wylfully fal into the censures of the chyrhe wherof as he sayth the leste is a dauÌ„gerouse thyng ye may playnly se that these wyly shrewes whych abuse his labour meane in all thys mater nothynge ellys but that they wolde not haue heresyes enquyred of And yet they nede not so greatly to care therfore for any great thingê y t by such inquisycioÌ„s are in heresyes presented But yet thus declare they theyr good wylles these wyly shrewes y t thus deceyue this good symple soule set hym so euyll a worke ¶ If he fere so myche y e ceÌ„sures of â—hâ— chyrche as he maketh for and vndâ—rstande and byleue Summa Rosella so surely as he pretendyth yt hadde ben better for hym to examyne well hys boke of dyuysyon and thys his seconde boke also by the tytles of Summa Rosella and se well why ther hym selfe varye not fro SuÌ„ma Rosella be by y e senteÌ„ce of SuÌ„ma Rosella fallen in the censures of the chyrche hym selfe by some such maner of wrytynge as hys sayde bokes haue ¶ But now cometh this good pacifiâ—r forthe wyth a goodly pyece to
that made me wryte yet agayne And yet founde I so lytle reason in hys reasonynge that me thought yt sholde not nede For thys wyste I very well that who so euer had wyt and wold conferre and compare to gether the wordes of hys answere wyth the wordes of myne Apologye sholde sone perceyue that hys answeres were euyn very dull and dede ¶ But thenne was there a nother thynge that I consydered in yt whyche poynte vnprouyded for myghte soon deceyue the reader For all be yt the pacyfyer hath in some places put in myne owne wordes where yt pleased hym yet hathe he for the moste parte vsed a prety crafte to mysse reherse my mater and leue my wordes oute Ye and besydes this the man hath in some places lefte oute some of his owne mysse rehersed them to make the reader wene that in the reprouynge theym I hadde wryten wronge ¶ Now had I supposed to remedy those thingê make him an answere in thre or foure leues wyth onely poyntynge the reader to the places wyth wrytynge in what lefe he shold fynde the mater For the wordê ones redde the trouthe sholde shewe yt selfe ¶ But whyle I was thus mynded and went there about hys answere in his dialoge had fouÌ„den such a way wyth walkynge to fro kepynge no maner order and therwyth makynge me seke so longe for some one place y t I saw wel I shold soner answere hym all new then fynde out for many thynges the place that I sholde seke for ¶ I made therfore in few daysâ— this answere that you se. And some suche places yet as I had happed to finde I haue remytted the reader vnto in myne apologye where for his redye findyng I haue noÌ„bred himâ—the lefe And yet haue I for some folke done somwhat more to For I se wel surely many men are nowe a dayes so delycate in readynge and so lothe to labour that they fare in other bokes as womeÌ„ fare with theyr primer which though they be content to saye some tyme y e fyftene psalmys ouer y t the psalmys of the passyon to yf they fynde them al fayre lette out in order at length yet wyll they rather leue theym all vn sayde then turne backe to seke theym out in other partyes of theyr prymer ¶ And therfore leste some readers myghte happe in this boke to do the same some places of thapologye myche necessarye and not longe that wyth myche sekynge I fortuned to fynd out to ease the reders labour make all open vnto hym I haue put in also into myne answere here Ye and yet ouer thys in the thynges of moste weyghte I haue put into thys boke hys owne wordes to And so shall you good readers wythout any payne of sekynge haue all the mateâ— playn and open afore your yien that ye shal well se that I loue the lyght no lesse thenne thys pacyfyer wolde fayne walke in the darke For as the darke is in this mater all hys auauntage euen so ys veryly the lyghte in lyke wyse myne And where as there are some that coÌ„mende his answere for the compendyouse breuite therof and shortnesse I nothinge therin enuye the mannes prayse For lyke as no man can make a shorter course then he that lacketh both hys legges so caÌ„ no man make a shorter boke than he that lacketh as wel wordes as mater And yet when by the places conferred well to gether the feblenesse of his answere shall appere then shall he lese the prayse of shortnesse to For when yt shall wel be sene y t he sayth nothyng to the purpose then shall euâ—ry wise man thynke hys boke to longe by all to gether And that ye may wel perceyue that so it is in dede let vs now leue of the preface and fall vnto the mater The fyrste chapyter IN his fyrste chapyter he toucheth thre thinges One that I haue deceyued hys hope in that I haue not in myne apologye dyuysed some conuenyent wayes to reforme and redresse the dyuysyon betwene the temporaltye and the spyrytualty to whyche poynte I wyll answere after in the touchyng of hys seconde chapyter The tother poynt is that syth he neuer found any faute in any worke of myne of whyche for other â—ettis he neuer redde none he merueleth mych therfore that I make such obieccyon agaynste his and namely in that worke whych I wolde name an apologye whyche name sygnyfyeth as he sayth an answere or a defence ¶ Now where this good man declareth what thynge an Apologye ys and sayth that yt is an answere or a defence for whych cause he the more meruaileth that I wold in that boke wryte agaynste any treatyse of hys who neuer hadde any thynge wryten against any worke of myn as though that therfore my wrytynge agaynste his worke wold in no wise agre with the name of my boke I myghte answere hym that the touchynge of his boke was but an incident as I shew in the .100 lefe of my sayde boke and not my pryncypall mater and therfore of many noughty thynges I touche there but a fewe and suche as were in no wyse to be dissembled But now meruaile I myche more wherfore he shold so meruayle that I wold in y e worke which I name an answere or a defence wryte agaynst his worke which nothynge wrote agaynst myn For if the thynge that I wryte agaynst his wordes be an answere or a defence in dede thenne though it be not a defeÌ„ce for my self yet is the cause of all his meruayle gone For in that boke that is called myne apologye yt is not requyred by y e nature of y e name that yt be any answere or defence for myne owne selfe at all but if suffyceth that yt be of myne owne makynge an answere or defence for some other And as these titles Caluicium Sinccii Moria Erasmi be names conuenyent for those bokes of theyres though the maters in those bokes sygnifyed by those names do not onely pertein vnto Sinecius Erasmus or peraduenture to neyther of theym both at al so may my boke well bere the name of an answere or a defence yf it be an answere or a defence made by me though yt were all made for other folke and not one pyece therof made for me ¶ So is yt now that myne apology is an answere and a defence not onely for my formare bokes wherin the new brethern began to fynde certayn faâ—tes but ouer that in the self same parte wherin I touche the boke of dyuysyon it is an answere and a defence for many good worshyppefull folke agaynst the malycyouse slaunder and obloquye so generally sette forth with so many salse some sayes in that sedycyouse boke ¶ The selfe same pyece ys also an answere and a defence of the very good olde and longe approued lawes bothe of thys realme and of the whole corps of chrystendome which lawes thys pacyfyer in his boke of dyuysyon to thencoragynge of heretyques and parell
nothynge ellys but onely Bizances wrytynge and els wold also Salem haue thought that his owne wordes of exhortacy oÌ„ agaynst the great turke and his own rehersynge of that exposycyon of the apocalyps had bene styll the pacyfyers wordê agaynst myne apology ¶ And finally in the very ende to shew that he could write not in onely prose he endeth all the whole booke in this wyse with a gloryouse ryme And thus the gloryonse trynite haue in his kepyng bothe the and me and maketh Bizance praye for no mo but for theym two after the maner of the good manne â—ryme a mustarde maker in Cambrydge y t was wont to pray for hym self and his wyfe his chyld grace to make good mustarde no more ¶ And thus you se good readers y t where this man is so cuÌ„ning in greke wordê y t he can shortely fynd y e fawt where I fayle in y e nature of an apologye hym selfe in his own dyaloge so well coÌ„serueth the propertye of a dialoge expresseth it so naturally y t it could neuer be done more naturally not though he that wrote it were euyn a very naturall in dede ¶ But where he semeth to haue meruayled whan he redde myne apology that I wolde make obieccyons agaynst his wurke whyle he neuer wrote any thynge agaynste no booke of myne in good fayth yf he had I wolde neuer haue bene the more hasty but somwhat peraduenture y e lesse leste it myghte haue semed that some desyre of reuengynge myne owne dyspleasure had excyted me therto where as nowe no worldely profyte growynge to me thereby there is mych lesse cause for any good man to thynke that I wolde take the labour to wryte agaynst a wurke I wyst not whose but yf that it had at the leste wyse semed to my selfe that there were suche thynges therin as god wold geue me thaÌ„ke to geue meÌ„ warnynge to be well ware of them ¶ And where he sayeth he wyll not touch euery thyng partycularly but take an other order all out of order in answerynge therunto I can not let him iÌ„ his own boke to vse what order that beste maye serue his purpose But me thought and yet thynke that I my selfe toke a very playne open way whan the chapyters of his whiche I wold answere to I perused al waye euery thynge in order Whiche order while he foloweth not with me how you shall fynd it your self shall good reders iudge vpon y e ende But yet in the meane whyle at the fyrste face it semeth not that wyth lepynge out of order he meaneth to make you the mater very playne ¶ Nor all he sayth he wyll not answere neyther for auoydynge of tedyousnes And of trouth yf he haue as he semeth to signyfye any other bysynesse I thynke it be somwhat tedyouse to hym to answere all to gether ¶ Finally where he saith that he supposeth to make it appere as by hys answeres and by his consideracyons and his declaracyons that myne obieccyons are lytell to be pondered fyrste for his argumentes made agaynste the lawes wherby the fayth is preserued and heresyes kept vnder those argumentes all his answeres wyll neuer be able to mayntayne And as to y e remanaunt in good faith the better that he maye make you his innocent mynde appere the gladder a greate deale wyll I be therof nor nothynge purpose I therin by thys present booke to do ferther than to make you clerely perceyue that how well so euer hym selfe here declare hys good menyng my selfe was not causeles there moued to fynd fawte in his wrytynge The .ii. chapyter IN the .ii. chapyter begynnynge in the fyfth lefe he bryngeth forth y e fyrste consyderacyoÌ„ whiche is that I in the 89. lefe of myne apology confesse that murmur and discensyon agaynst the clergye was thaÌ„ all redy farre gone onwarde in hys vnhappy iourney that afterwarde in the .106 lefe of the same boke I bryng in a very darke senteÌ„ce wherby it appereth that I mene that the dyspleasure grudge bytwene them is in dede neyther so greate as he maketh it and yet growen to so greate as it is but euyn now of late But who so loke there in that place shall I suppose fynde it nothynge darke but yf it be suche a man as lyste not to vnderstande it ¶ And where I saye there that this dyuysion such as it is whyche is no thynge such as this man maketh it is not growen to so greate as it is but synnys that Tyndalys bookes and Frythys and frere Barons bygan to go abrode therin he wold seme to saye the contrary byddeth me loke better vppon the mater and I shall fynde it otherwyse And in dede with better lokyng theron I fynd it somwhat otherwyse For I fynde y e tyme of such encreace as I speke of mych shorter than I there assygne that by a greate deale For it was groweÌ„ the greater by thoccasyon of the selfe same boke of the diuysyon though y â— maker as hym selfe sayth and as I truste to intended it not of purpose And therfore where he saith that sith I confesse that there was diuysyon at the tyme of the makynge of myne apologye it appereth that I haue no mynde to haue it ceaced bycause that I seke not out the causes and deuise the remedyes veryly good readers I neuer toke accoÌ„pted my self for a man mete able to make a reformacyon of such two great partes as the spyrytualtye and the temporaltye of this whole realme be And veryly yf I knewe some suche great causes as thys man setteth forth for trewe whych I knowe for false and that I than knewe the wayes to reforme them to I wolde vse other wayes towarde it than sedycyouse slaunderouse bookes For as I haue expressely declared in myne apologye neyther neuer dyd I nor neuer entende to do put out abrode in prente vnder colour of reformacyon fawtes that were hatefull and odyouse to here eyther of the tone parte or of the tother and specyally so many at onys as yf they were all trewe were not all lykely to be remedyed at ones but the more parte for the whyle remaynynge lytell remedyed sholdâ— but make eyther parte to the other more odyouse and bothe partes more infamouse amonge suche other yf any suche any where be as wold be gladde and reioyce to here mych euyl spoken of them bothe ¶ And thys I saye all though that all were trewe And now wolde I mych lesse vse that maner in makyng rehersall of those thynges wherof many be false and vntrew and many other also very tryfeles the very chyefe thynges that thys pacyfyer desyreth to haue reformed be lawes all redy well made whyche he wold haue made wurse For where they haue ben by wyse men well deuysed for the repressyng of heresyes some by perleament in thys realme some by the generall counsayle of chrystendome those deuyseth he so to be chaunged now as the chaunge whyche he desyreth
I saye in those places that the pacyfyer mysse sayeth the people and that the people be myche more reasonable that to take yt so And therfore here he belyeth me agayne ¶ And also let hym shewe you forth any one place in whyche I say that all the whole faute or the pryncypal faute eyther is in the teÌ„poraltye and than byleue hym the better in a nother mater And in the meane whyle tyll he brynge it forthe or ellys that you fynde yt your self ye may with reason at the lest wyse in this mater byleue me better thenne hym and I wil neuer desyre you to byleue me one day lenger For I haue neyther sayde the pryncypall faute in the tone nor y e tother And thus hath he made you of me thre lyes in one chapyter The .iiii. chapyter IN his .iiii. chapyter begynnyng in the .viii. lefe he fyrst sheweth a diuersyte betwene the sample that I put in y e .94 lefe of myne appologye of a pacyfyer betwene a man and hys wyfe and the thyng that I there resemble it vnto that is to wytte hys owne boke that maketh a lyke pacifycacyon betwene the temporaltye and spyrytualtye ¶ But surely the dyfference that he putteth semeth to my pore wyt greatly to a payre his parte For yf it be as he sayth yt is that where as the husbande wold be loth to heare any euyl spoken of his wyfe and therfore wil can suche a pacyfyer no thanke that wyll tell hym suche tales of her before his neyghbours the temporaltye wyll be glad to heare harme spoken of the spyrytualtye then was yt so myche the worse done to wryte openly to the temporaltye suche thynges of the spyrytualtye to fede and nuryshe any suche euyll delyte or openly to the spyritualtye beynge as he sayde lyke wyse affectyonate the fautes of the temporaltye eyther Howe be yt I can not in good fayth saye but yf I shold belye hym that on that syde wyllyngely he greatly passed his boundes but of ouersyght vnware he hath in some thynges slaundered y e temporalty to ¶ Then sheweth he farther wherfore he wrote those thynges in englyshe though IohnÌ„ Gerson wrote theym but in laten wherin to say the trouth he layeth a cause suffycyent wherfore that IohnÌ„ Gerson wrote them in latyne But whyther he laye cause suffycyent wherfore hym selfe shold not rather haue let them alone then wryte them in englishe agaynst the counsayle of IohnÌ„ Gerson hym selfe as I touched in myne apology that I leue your self good reades to coÌ„syder For I wil not myche stryue agaynste his excuse For I greatly shall not nede I thinke syth al his excuse amounteth to no more but that he ment that some laye men redynge the prestes fautes in englishe myght put them in remembraunce to mende them specially bycause he sayth euen in the same chapiter a litle afore that the temporaltye so myche delyteth to here of theym TheÌ„ goth he farther in y e same chapiter where as in his boke of the dyuisyon he wold haue semed betwene the teÌ„poraltye and the spyrytualtie to haue spoken indifferently to haue told them theyr fautes on both partiâ—â—gally here in the second syde of the x. lefe he telleth vs the cause wherfore he dyd not so saith in this wise I haue spoken of defautes and abuses in the spyrytualtye more then of defautes in the temporaltye bycause the spyrytualte oughte to be the gyders and gyuers of lyghte by they re doctryne good exaÌ„ples to the teÌ„poralty if theyr light be derkenes where shall the temporaltie then fetche theyr lyghter trewly I wote not where And I doute that then they both shall walke styl in derkenes And therfore yt is that IohnÌ„ Chrysostome sayth vppon Matthew the xxi chapyter That yf prestehode be holle sound all the chyrch florysheth and yf yt be corrupte the fayth and vertue of the people fadeth also and vanyssheth away Lette thye therfore as to thys poynt be the fynall conclusyon for thys tyme that who so euer proueth defautes to be in the temporaltye he proueth also defautes to reygne in the spyritualty therefore the defautes in the temporaltye wyl neuer be auoyded tyll the defautes in the spyrytualtye be fyrste reformed and therfore haue I fyrste spoken of some defautes that be in the spyrytualtye ¶ Surely good readers I like wel these wordes For they be very good they proue very well very trew yt is nor I ueuer sayd the contrary but haue in myne apologye playnely sayd the same y t euery faute in a spyrituall man though y e thyng were of it self al one is yet by y e differeÌ„ce of y e person farre worse and more odyâ—ouse both to god and man then yt ys in a teÌ„porall man But yet the worse that euery pryuate spyrytuall maÌ„nes faute is so myche is yt y e more harme to dyffame the corps of the spyritualtye openly in the face of the temporaltye in suche maner as the boke of dyuysyon doth of whyche I haue proued those that are weyghtye false and could yf I wold now lese tyme about yt whyle that that I haue touched ys suffycyent shewe the substaunce of al the remanaunt to haue lytle substaunce to ¶ And therfore the wordes of saynt Chrysostome whyche he sayeth for his boke were in part the very cause that made me wryte agaynste hys boke For surely as saynte Chrysostome sayth yf the presthed be corrupt the fayth and vertue of the people fadeth and vanisheth away whyche is wythoute any questyon very trouth for though saynt Chrystome had neuer sayde it our sauyour sayth as myche hym selfe ye be sayth he to the clergye the salte of the erthe if the salt waxe ones freshe and we ryshe wherin shal any thyng be well seasoned And you be the light of the worlde And therfore yf the lyghte that ys in the worlde be darke howe darke shall then the darkenes be yt selfe ¶ But now say I syth that y e prestehed beyng corrupted yt muste nedes folowe that the fayth and vertue of the people fadeth and vanysheth awaye and vppon Chrystes wordes yt muste folowe that yf the spyritualtye be nought the temporaltye muste nedes then be worse than they theruppon I conclude vppon the tother syde agaynste the pacyfyers boke that syth this realme hath as god be thanked in dede yt hath as good as faithfull temporalty though there be a fewe false brethern in a great multitude of a trew catholike meÌ„ as hath for y e quantite any other couÌ„trey cristened it must nedes I say folow y t the clergy though it haue some such false noughtye brethern to is not in suche sore maner corrupted as the boke of diuysyon goth about to make meÌ„ wene but as good for theyr part as the temporaltie for theyrs ¶ A therfore in lyke wyse I saye that vppon the selfe same wordes of saynt Chrysostome and of our sauyour Chryste the sayde boke of
in myne apologye fo 158. in the .xxvi. chapyter and answered there at length in the same chapyter and diuerse other in order there ensuyng of which this man hath answered to some very lytell and to the moste parte and the chyefe parte no thynge now is he so symple that he vseth the same thynges for a profe that he bereth the clergye very good wyll and mindeth not to brynge them in obâ—oquy whyche he wold we shold take for a thing playnely proued bycause he pytyeth lamenteth theym therin and so bytterly prayeth god to make them good and amende them ¶ Thys good man many tymes taketh recorde of his owne conscyence that he meneth well in suche thyngê as his wordes make many good men wene that he ment very nought And therfore wyll I now be bolde in thys poynt to take recorde of hys owne conscyence whyther hym self yf one that knewe hys name wold wryte suche a worke so to wchynge hym as hys wurke of dyuysyon toucheth there the clergye and wold therin vnder so many Some sayes say that he were as euyll as he saith there that they be for worse coulde lyghtely no man saye wolde hym selfe hold hym satysfyed and thynke that y e wryter ment hym none harme bycause he powdered hys shrewde slaunderouse some sayes wyth lamentynge and pityenge that the man is no better And wold he wene by his trouth that the wryter ment not to cal him gracelesse bycause he prayed god habundauntely to sende hym grace nor to call hym witlesse bycause he prayeth god send hym wyt Surely yf he can thynke so than shall he well shewe hym selfe so simple a sowle as men may well se that some wily shrewys begyle hym And on the tother syde yf he be wyser than to thynke so thaÌ„ he well sheweth hym self more wily in thys same .xiii. chapyter of hys than to meane so well in his wurcke of dyuysyon as he wolde here make men wene ¶ Now where he saith these wordê Also I saye not in all the sayde treatyse that the spyrytuaâ—tye make confederacyes agaynste the temporaltye but I saye that they contynue styll after the olde course in not doynge good dedes but pretendyng by confederacyes worldely polycye straight correccyons to rule the people Who coulde wryte thus but eyther he that were a man of very innocent symplenesse or he that entendeth to mocke of a shrewd wily dowblenese For sauynge that hys worde pretendyng signifyeth not in dede the thyng that he for lacke of language pretendeth here therby to go aboute not to do good to the people but by confederacyes with wylynesse and strayght correccyons to rule the peple what thynge calleth he this but confederacyes agaynst the people ¶ How be it syth thys chapyter goth but to the dyschargynge of hys owne personall entent that he ment not hym selfe malycyously what so euer hys booke speke I wyll not therfore wrestle agaynst it mych but wolde he were well byleued in that thynge But yet yf you rede the places of myne apologye and compare them with such partes of hys boke as I there speke of ye shall well and clerely se that though the manne in his own mynde ment it not him self yet the thynge that I saye was the menynge of hys boke The .xiiii. chapyter HIs .xiiii chapyter begynneth in the xiii lefe In the begynnyng therof he laboreth to proue that he dyd not as I in myne apologye saye that he dyd go about in his boke of diuysyon to make men wene that the spyrytual iudgê in this realme handeled men for heresye so cruelly that all the worlde had cause to wonder and grudge therat which thynge that I shold so say this good man myche meruayleth at For I sayed no more sayth he But that it were pitie it sholde be so and that it sholde be trewe that is reported that there sholde be such a desyre in spyrytuall men to haue men â—biure or to haue men haue extreme punyshement for heresye as it is saydeâ— that there is ¶ Rede good reders the .xlv. chapyter of myne apologye begynnyng fo 243â— and than shall you fynde this answere of his a very bare naked thing This maÌ„ answereth here as though he trusted that all the worlde were woodcokkys saue hym self and that hys fayre fygure of some saye were so wylyly founde that men had not the wytte to se therby what his booke meneth what wurke it goth about But this I dowte not but that yf eyther hym self or such another man wolde deuise me suche another boke eyther agaynste the nobylyte of the realme or agaynste the iudges of the same or agaynste the hygh court of perleament it self which were soone done yf a man in lyke wyse lyste to slaunder to bylye them nor it could not I wote wel what so euer he sayd therin be lyghty wurse or more false thanne that booke of hys dyuysyon concernynge the poynt that we speke of that is to wyt thys false slaunder of the spyrytuall iudges in mysse handelynge men for heresye as it hath ofter than ones before the lordes of the kynges most honorable couÌ„sayle vpon lyke false bylles and coÌ„playntes of partyculare persons by good examynacion ben proued and than if he that wolde make I say of the nobylyte the iudges or the perleameÌ„t suche another boke wolde brynge in all his false talys agaynst them vnder the selfe same fayre fygure of some say and many say they saye and than say that hym selfe wold say no piece therof but onely that it were pytie that it sholde be trewe that it were so as many folke reportei is so and than preche and pray god send them the grace that they do not so I dare be bolde to saye that there is no wyse man but he wolde bothe soone se and saye that the man wyth suche false lesynges went about to dyffame and slaunder them and make the people wene that it were so ¶ Than after this thynge so fetely skused he declareth hys wordes agayne whyche he spake in his dyuysyon of spekynge heresyes of lyghtnesse or of a passyon And bycause I answered hym in myne apolygye y t yf such thynges shold be excused by lyghtnesse by passyons than myght there passe by myche lewdenesse and myche myschyef to the begynnynge wherof groweth of lewd lyghtnesse of euyll passyons herin he sheweth that there is dyfference in dedys and y t some be more some be lesse And bycause I did put for samples manslaughter and aduowter whiche he thought was to high to be lykened to spekyng talkyng heresye he bryngeth it somwhat agayne to bace and putteth other saÌ„ples of one spekyng an angry worde yet wolde not kyll one one y t hath a passion of aduowtry yet doth not the dede sayth y t his treatise ment not obstinate dedely passyons but passyons of ignorâ—unce of frayltie done for lacke or good aduisement ¶ As for his passyon of ignoraunce he may put
thre wurshypfull wytnesses whiche stand yet all vnsworne that is to wyt Some saye and They say Folke say And than hath he now brought forth other two whome he maketh as me semeth bothe as wytnesses iudges to that is the good sely sowle Symkyn Salem and his ryght honest neyghbour brother Byzance Well I am content I y t all his fyue wytnesses be sworeÌ„ wel examined how they know the thyngê that they reporte than those spyrytuall iudges of whom they shall so speke and proue set it be layed vnto theyr charges And yf you fynde of suche so many and theyr dealynge so cruell or vniuste as this man maketh it or any thynge well towarde it than am I content that ye shall for them byleue all the remanauÌ„t the wurse And yet is y t I wysse somwhat with the most And than am I content that you byleue also that this man had for that cause a necessary occasion and a profytable to put y t tale in his bate makynge boke ¶ But in the mene whyle I laye agaynste hym for y t point and agaynst all his fyue wurshypfull wytnesses to the dede the reporte of y e gretest and the moste honorable temporall lordes of the kynges most honorable counsayle and other ryght wurshypfull temporall men of the same with them whiche by the gracyouse commauÌ„dement of the kinges hyghnesse haue examyned dyuerse suche complayntes at the suit of y e partyes theÌ„ selfe and theyr frendes haue theruppon founden the same complayntê false that thordynaryes haue done them but ryght and that wyth great fauour to ¶ And therfore as for thys poynte the treuthe beynge so substancyally proued vppon this syde by all hys fyue forenamed wytnesses on the tother syde sette I not fyue strawes And therfore good reders as for this poynt his puttynge of that pyece in hys boke of diuisyon had neyther necessyte nor profyte excepte it were eyther necessary or profytable to sow a euyll sede agaynste good folke of vntrew reprouable slaunder in hys owne wrytynge vnder the colour of some other meÌ„nes vnproued wordê ¶ Than resteth there as farre as I can se but one cause byhynde y t shold excuse hym And that is that it was a thynge profytable for the people to know that though a man of a lyghtnesse or of a passyon growynge of ignoraunce or of frayltye speke and â—alke heresyes at lybertye yet but yf he defende it opinatyuely he shold not be taken for an heretyke therby Deryly good readers yf thys tale were trewe yet wolde I wene as I sayde this tale vnto the people as good vnwryten as wryten a great dele better to ¶ As for thys good man or any man ellys I can not let theym to wryte what they lyste and saye they thynke it good be it neuer so badde in dede But I durste in my conscyence no more vse thys fashyon of wrytynge concernynge heresye than I wolde vse it in wrytynge any boke wherof I wolde speke of eyther treason or any other felony excepte some other necessary occasyon sholde happely dryue me therto as no good occasyon in hys booke of dyuysyon droue this good man therto ¶ If I were agayne to reade in Lyncolns Ine there were in hande wyth a statute that touched treason and all other felonyes I wolde not let to loke seke out and reherse whyther any heyghnouse wordes spoken agaynst the prynce were for the onely spekynge to be taken for treason or not ¶ Nor I wolde not let in lyke wyse to declare if I founde out any casyâ— in whyche a man though he toke an other mannes horse agaynst the law sholde yet not be iudged for a felon therby And this wolde I not onely be bolde there to tell them but wolde also be bolde in such french as is peculiare to the lawys of this realme to leue it wyth them in wrytynge to But yet wold I reken my selfe sorâ— ouer sene yf all suche thynges as I wolde in that scole speke in a redyng I wolde in englysh into euery mannys hand put out abrode in prent For there is no such necessyte therin as is in the tother For in y e places of court these coÌ„panies must nedes be taught it oute of whyche companyes they must after be taken that shal be made iudges to iudge it But as for the comon people to be tolde that tale shall as farre as I se do many folke lytell good but rather very great harme For by perceyuyng that in some thinges were no thynge the perell that they ferede some may waxe therin more neglygent and by lesse ferynge y e lesse dayngeour may soone steppe into the more And therfore haue I wyste ere thys the iudges of a great wysedome in great open audyence where they haue hadde occasyon to speke of hyghe mysseprisyon or of treason forbere yet the sayenge of some suche thynges as they wolde not haue letted to speke among them selfe ¶ If any man wold happely thynke that it were well done that euery maÌ„ were taught all and wollde aledge therfore that if he know surely what thynge wolde make hys behauour hygh treason or heresye than though he wolde aduenture all that euer were vnder that yet wold he be peraduenture the more ware to kepe hym selfe well from that as many a man though he byleue that he shall abyde greate payne in purgatory for hys venyall synnes dothe for all that no greate dylygence in forberynge of them and yet for y e feare of perpetuall payne in hell taketh very greate hede to kepe hym selfe frome those synnes that he surely knoweth for mortall ¶ As for suche venyall synnes as folke of fraylty so comenly do fall in that no man is almoste any tyme wythout theym though the profyte wolde be more yf men dyd wene they were mortall so that the drede therof coulde make menne vtterly forbere theym yet syth it wyll not be that men wyll vtterly forbere them the knowlege of the trouth is necessary for them leste euery tyme that they do suche a veniall synne in dede wenyng that it were mortall the doyng of the dede wyth the conscyence of a mortall synne myghte make it mortall in dede ¶ But of any such kynde of veniall synnes as be not so mych in custume and may be more easyly forborne I neuer founde any wyse man to my remembrauÌ„ce that wold eyther wryte or teche the comune peple so exactly as to say though you do thus farre yet is it no dedely synne but wyll in suche thynges syth the veniall synne it self is a drawyng toward y e dedely rather leue the people in dowt and in drede of dedely synne and thereby cause them to kepe them selfe farre of from it than by tellynge theym it is but a venyall synne make them the lesse aferde to do it and so come so myche the nerâ—r to mortall synne and assaye how nere he canne come to it and not do it tyll he come
conscyence they thynke hym any other is well worthy to do some panauÌ„ce for that maner of byhauour wherby he geueth al other men occasion to take hym for so noughty ¶ Now good readers where thys man taketh me that I say a man may be dreuen to his purgacyon wythout offence you se well I say not so but I say that he doth a great offence well wurthy were to be dreueÌ„ to his purgacyoÌ„ to do penauÌ„ce to if he be not able to purge hym selfe but haue vsed hym selfe so lyke an heretyke in all good folkes opinioÌ„ y t he can fynd no good folke y t dare in theyr coÌ„scieÌ„ce swere that they thynke other wyse This saye I is a great offence and worthy to dryue hym to this poynte And this good man sayth that I denye not but that he maye by the law be dreuyn to it without offence ¶ And where as he sayth I denye not that he may be dreueÌ„ therto without wytnesse wherfore not I praye you For the suspycyons beyng proued by wytnesses to be notable and vehemeÌ„t wyll they not be cause sufficyent to dryue hym to pourge hym selfe of that infamy or els to do penauÌ„ce for bryngyng hym selfe therin to but yf there be wytnessys of hys expresse heretycall wordes No sayth this good man meruayleth y t I could thynk this any reason But why he sholdÌ„ so meruayle at y â— mater or why I shold be ashamed to thinke so therof telleth vs this good man no tale at all but onely sayth Truely thys is a meruelous persuasion that a man sholde be put to his purgacyon bycause hys neyghbours dare not swere that he is none heretyke ¶ Meruelouse god where was this mannys mynde whan he wrote these wordes do I say y t he shall be put to his purgacioÌ„ bicause his neighbours wyl not swere with him nay I say y â— whaÌ„ there be by wytnesses sworen byfore his face suspicions of heresie ê“ued vpoÌ„ hym thaÌ„ may thordinary put hym to such purgacyon to proue whyther they wyll swere wyth hym or no. For whan they wyll not but refuse it what mad man wold say that he shal be put to that purgacyon thaÌ„ whan he hath fayled therof and yt all redy paste This man speketh here as one that perceyued no pyece of the mater ¶ For where as I declare that he is in great offence y t so vseth hym self y t none of his honest neighbours dare swere that in theyr conscyences he is any other than an heretyke this maÌ„ taketh it as though they that sholde swere wyth hym in his purgacyon sholde precysely swere that he were none heretyke where as theyr othe shall not be what he is in dede but what them selfe thynke of hys othe they shall not swere that he is none heretyke but that they byleue that he hath sworen trew in denyeng tharticles sayd vnto hys charge Lyke as in the wageour of a lawe they shall not swere that the defendaunt oweth not the money but that they byleue that he swereth treuth ¶ I meruayle in good fayth y t thys good man handeleth thys mater in this maner without any tellynge why meruayleth so mych y t I wold thynke that law reasonable But surely though he coulde make me a proper reason for his part and my selfe another for the same syde also yet wolde I thynke my selfe ryght vnreasonable yf I shold vpoÌ„ his reason myn aduise counsayle this realme in a mater concernynge the conseruacyoÌ„ of the fayth to alter and chaunge that law that was made by so great aduyse by an whole generall counsayle of all chrystendome wherin there were I dowte it not men that had as good zele to kepe innoceÌ„tes out of trouble as any of vs twayne and mych more reason also than we both haue to But that point that I shewed hym in my apologye that the same prouisyon that is made in y e saw ad abolendaÌ„ was also made in a generall counsayle y e tale he letteth go by as though he herde it not ¶ But than he cometh forth wyth a worde or two of a ferther fawte in the law which eyther the man vnderstandeth not what in meneth or ellys is it herd for any man to thynke y t he meneth wel These are his wordê so And veryly the law is that theyr othe in that case shulde not be accepted for the sayde chapyter Ad abolendam is that yf a man be notably suspected of heresye that he shall purge hym selfe after the wyl of thordynarye or be accursed and so the purgacyon of hyâ— neyghbour wyll not serue Lette euery man therfore consyder whether the sayd law be indysferent or not And yf it be not lette them put to theyr hande to haue it broken And thynke veryly they shall deserue great thanke of god yf they tourne it to a more indyfferent waye then it is at nowe For vnder thys maner the moost innocent man that is may of malyce be reported to be suspected of heresye and be not so in dede and so be dreuen to hys purgacyon or be accursed and then there is another law that yf he in that case of an indurate mynde stande so accursed a yere he shal be punished as an heretike and that is by the law Extra de hereticis ca. Excâ—municamu◠¶ This prouysyon good readers y t he speketh whyche is in the lawe ad abolendam recited in the .v. boke of the decretalis in the tytle de hereticis y t such as were suspecte shold purge them selfe at the arbitrement discrecion of thordynary was as I before haue sayed afterward loked vppon alowed in the generall counsayle called consiliuÌ„ latranense as euery man may soone perceyue that wyll well consyder the paragraffe excoÌ„municamê° afterward in the same tytle For where as y e law there saith Qui inueÌ„ti fuerit sola suspitione notabiles nisi statim innoceÌ„tiaÌ„ suaÌ„ congrua purgatione moÌ„strauerint these wordê congrua purgatione be referred vnto the tother law ad abolendaÌ„ therof made byfore as bothe appereth by such doctours as wryte vpoÌ„ y e lawes also to hym y t wyl coÌ„sider it wel it wel appereth by y â— self text For in y e paragraf ExcoÌ„ be rehersed part of the very wordes of the lawâ— ad abolendam wherby we may se y t the counsayle there loked vpon that lawe And so was I saye that prouisyon which this man calleth so vnreasonable not onely made by pope Lucius the .iii. but after also made agayne by ratificacyoÌ„ by pope Innocent y e .iii. in an hose generall couÌ„saile And rede the stories who so wyll and he shall fynde bothe by Platiua and Cronica cronicaruÌ„ to that both this pope Lucius and thys pope InnoceÌ„t were very vertuouse men And here had it ben reasoÌ„ now therfore y t this good man sith he fyndeth in this point so gret a fawt in y e wittê of both these good popes in
of gryefes some parte very tryfles and some parte remedyed before hys booke of dyuisyon made and some parte very folyshe some part for all hys some sayes vndowtedly very false ¶ He hath there two leuys in the ende of that chapiter which any wyse man that readeth them shall I suppose iudge a very dreamynge tale And therin it semeth that as he hath bygonne wyth the spyrytuall lawes so he wyll after procede in the teÌ„poral lawes to And fayne wold y e man make me so fonde as to be hys felow therin and saith yf I know any such made as the perleament had none authoryte to make or wheruppon the people haâ—e iâ—ste cause to complayn it wâ—râ— weâ—â— done that I shold shew them And so he thynketh verily that cherâ—tâ— shold coÌ„pell me to do seynge that I am he sayth lerned in y e lawes of the realmâ— Veryly yf I knewe any suche yet wold I not folow neyther this good mannys holy exhortacyon nor hys godly sample neyther to do in y e tone as he hath done in the tother but yf I lyked hys doynge a lytell better than I do ¶ And yf I be lerned in the temporall lawes the lesse wyll I folowe his counsayle For the better that I were lerned in them the lesse wolde I wene it wold become me to prent and put abrode amonge the people a slawnderous boke of them to shame theym ¶ And vnto this point good readers I haue answered and shewed my mynde in myne apologye byfore wherto thys man geueth a defe eare alwaye And here vppon a soughte occasyon with a fonde wyly chaunge of my wordes exhorteth me to the thynge to whyche I made answere all redy And what I before sayde therin that he dyssembleth and sayth not one worde therto But in myne apologye good readers the .159 lefe these were in this poynt my wordes Hys other murmours grudges that he sayth he can not now reherse he reherseth after many of theÌ„ in his other chapyters whych I wyll passe ouer vntowched bothe for that the more parte of them be suche as euery wyse man wyll I suppose answere them hym selfe in the redynge and satysfye hys owne mynde wythout any nede of myne helpe therin for that some thynges are there also therin that are very well sayed and some also that be they good or badde I purpose not to medle myche wythall as are the thynges y t towche any lawes or statutes all redy made be they of the chyrche or of the realme defende them I am coÌ„tent to do yf I thynke them good But on the tother syde yf I thinke them nought albe it that in place tyme coÌ„uenyent I wold geue myn aduice couÌ„saile to the chauÌ„ge yet to putte out bookes in wrytynge abrode amonge the people agaynste theym that wolde I neyther do my selfe nor in the so doynge commende any man that doth For yf the lawe were suche as were so farre agaynste the lawe of god that it were not possyble to stande wyth mannes saluacyon than in that case the secrete aduyse and couÌ„sayle may become euery man but the open reprofe and redargucyon therof may not in my mynd well become those that are no more spyrytuall than I. And sure yf the lawes maye be kepte and obserued without perell of soule though the chaunge myght be to the better yet out of tyme place coÌ„uenyent to put the defawtes of the lawes abrode amonge the people in wrytynge and wythout any suretye of the chaunge geue the people occasyon to haue the lawes in derysyon vnder which they lyue namely syth he y t so shall vse to do may somtime missetake the mater thynke the thyng not good wherof y e chauÌ„ge wold be worse y â— way wyll I not as thus aduised neither vse my self nor aduise no frend of myne to do And therfore I wyll as I saye leue some thinges of his boke vntouched whyther he say well or euyll ¶ Here you se good readers myne answere to thys poynt concernynge the fyndynge of fawtes and puttyng theym abrode in prente whiche answere he dyssembleth agayne prouoketh me to the same as though he had neuer herd it whyche answere I wyll therfore be had as repeted in euery place where he prouoketh me hereafter to the same poynte And thus you se good reders that where as he hath not in any one chapyter of hys brought forth any reason yet yet hath he brought forth leste in this hys .xviii. in whiche he bosteth moost For by thys hath he playnely declared that he neyther vnderstandeth the law vt inquisitionis that he alledgeth nor so mych as the pore summe called Summa rosella neyther For that good man y t made it vndowtedly neuer ment of suche inquisicions as ours are of whyche maner he hadde happely neuer knowen none And as for the law they very fyrste wordes therof to hym that vnderstondeth them and consydereth them well suffycyently do declare that that lawe forbedeth laye men to medyll wyth suche maner knowledge of heresye as sholde be a let and impedement to the ordynaryes or other the spyrytuall inquisitours not suche knowledge as we take by our inquisicyoÌ„s that onely serue to helpe the tothâ—r forth bringe y e mater to theyr haÌ„des ¶ And therâ—ore syth I se well that this man in the laten lawes and SuÌ„mes hath so lytell vnderstandynge I shall be the more content in his lawes his SuÌ„mys so mych the lesse to dyspute or medle wyth hym The .xix. chapyter IN his .xix. chapiteâ— he declareth what he meaneth by confederacyes of the spyrytualtye and sayth he meneth coÌ„federacyes wherby spyrytuall men pretende to mayntayne some suche lawes of the chyrche and some such constytucyoÌ„s prouincyall as are agaynste the kynges lawes and the olde customes of the realme and putteth for a sample the puttyng of â—restes to answere afore temporall iudges the statute made de Silua cedua and the statute of Mortuaryes ¶ As for coÌ„ueÌ„tyng of prestê before seculare iudges trouth it is y e one tyme thoccasyoÌ„ of a sermoÌ„ made the mater come in coÌ„municatioÌ„ before the kyngê hyghnes But neyther any tymes synnys nor many yerys afore I neuer herd y t there was any bysynes about it And yet was y e mater ceaced long before any worde sprange of this great generall dyuision that his boke maketh as though there were such in a maner generall thorow the whole realme ¶ And diuerse statutes haue there sinnys ben made coÌ„cernynge y e same poynt And many prestes conuented as they were wont to be byfore and no by synes made by the spyrytualty therfore y t I here of nor I trow him self neither ¶ And in lyke wise men cutte downe theyr woodê euery yere in one place other of the realme eyther is there not asked the tytâ—e agâ—ynst the statute or yf some person wold with good wyll gete it therfore aske yt he geteth yt not yet
neyther seeth assemblies nor can assygne and proue any conspyracy mutuall ê“myse in assystyng eche other about the procurement of any thynge at all good or bad For where as he sayth y t these be some of the confederacyâ—s that he ment I am sure no man douteth but that these be eyther all he coÌ„federacyes that he fyndeth or ellys at the leste wyse the greatest And thenne are those that he calleth here partyculare confederacyes so chyldyshe that in good faythe I myche meruayle that his herte could serue hym for very shame to speke of theÌ„ And theÌ„ the tother y t be taketh for generall coÌ„federacyes he neither seeth nor assygneth so mych as any asseÌ„bly about theym or promyse or abettement to procure and pursue theym And therfore though some prestes wold here or there speke of them as theyr owne affeccyon sedeth theym this is farre fro the nature and name of confederacye ¶ And yet when he hath al to gether done whyle he proueth nothynge at the vttermoste though all that he sayeth were as trew as yt is not but that they wolde fayne haue the tythe of tymber styll and that they wolde fayne haue the mortuaryes styll and that some wolde fayne haue greater wages and some wolde fayne haue more money at the beryalles then for all they re fayne wyllynge they can gete when they wold onely fayn haue yt and yet in dede gete nought of yt nor other folke nothynge lese to make now so great a mater of this and call yt an hyghnouse name of confederacyes ys as me semeth somewhat lyke to hym that wolde nedes haue an accyon agaynste his neyghbour bycause his neyghbours hoâ—se stode and loked ouer his hedge For he sayde that he sawe by hys countenaunce that he wolde haue eaten hys grasse yf he coulde haue goten to yt For as for that that the hedge letted hym was lytle thanke to hym for hys wyll was neuer the lesse And thus hys .xix. chapyter you se good readers howe lytle reason is in yt The .xx. chapyter HIs .xx. chapyter begynnynge in y e lxxvi lefe hath so lytle effecte substaunce in it and so faintly defendeth his formare mater whyche yt pretendeth to defende that I puroose to make no longe worke aboute yt ¶ For yf you rede fyrste his wordes as they lye in mine Apology fo 159 in the seconde syde begynnynge at these wordes And here me thynketh I myghte saye ye shal there good readers fynde that I reherse those wordê of his euyn whole wyth those wordes in them which he wold in the begynnynge of this his .xx. chapyter make men byleue that I had wythdrawen as though they were wordes of suche substancyall effect that I wold not haue it appere in my boke that he had wryten so piththely ¶ Afterwarde in a nother place where they be rehersed again fo 162 then preÌ„ter of lykelyhed left them out of ouersyght hast And surely they be not of so great weyght but y t if the authour had hym selfe left them out in his boke of dyuysyon yt had made lytle mater And yf he had ouer that left out the whole clause then hadde he lefte in hys boke one lye the lesse and hys boke the better by so myche For wherby proueth he that the spyrytuall rulers pretende theym selfe to be so clene and pure that there ys no defaute in theym but all in the people alone and in theym selfe no maner faute at all Where herde he euer any spyrytuall man saye thys by the whole spyrytualtye or by any one man therof ¶ They confesse theym selfe to be men and synners And they confesse and knowledge also that the very cause of thys chyefe myschyefe that nowe begynneth to make dyuysyon that ys to wytte the execrable heresyes whyche myschyefes thys good mannys euyll dyuyses with chaunge of good lawes were lykely to mayntayne yf men wolde folowe theym dyd bothe begynne and ys also sette forthe auaunced forward by those vngracyouse folke that are suche amonge the spyrytualtye as Iudas was amonge thapostles thys not in thys realme onely but in otheâ— countreys to As by frere Luther and preste Pomerane Otho the monke and frere Lambert frere Huskyn and Swynglius here in Englande Tyndale frere Barns George Ioy some other suche as with the sede of sedycyouse heresye haue so wen and set forth dyuysyon ¶ Thys thynge the spyrytualtye bothe knoweth knowledgeth And therfore they do not pretende as thys pacifier sayth they do that there hath ben no faute amonge theym but all amonge the people And therfore this good man where he sayeth that I lefte out thre wordes in that clause of his which yet I did put in indede hym selfe hadde somwhat amended hys mater with leuyng in of one lye the lesse yf he had left out the whole clause all to gether ¶ As to that y â— he sayth I chaunged his wordes in y e ende froÌ„ these wordê the syghte of grace that ys spoken of before wyll not appere into 〈◊〉 wordes the syghte of grace tha◠〈◊〉 spoken of byfore be wyth you noâ— and euer more amen therin he sayeth very trewe For syth â—e was fallen into preachynge I not onely in the fyrst place rehersed hym as he spake hym self but afterward also in the seconde place I toke the payne for hym to mende his collaâ—yon in that poynt make yt ende some what more lyke a sermoÌ„ with a good gracyouse prayour Then goeth he forthe and in the same lefe and the next folowyng he maketh a suspicyouse mater and can not tell what mynde I was of in chaungynge his worde spyrytuall rulers into this worde prelates But loke good readers vppon the place and you shal se that I dyd yt of good cause For I do not there saye that he sayth prelates but I saye there that peraduenture he wyll saye so And also besydes this that there yâ— no very great dyfference betwene these wordes the prelates and the spirytuall rulers the chauÌ„ge from this worde the spyrytuall rulers into this worde prelates semed me the more mete and more proper for the mater that the pacifier speketh in that place where he speketh of auâ—horite y t they pretende and obedyence that they clayme ¶ Howe be it rather then I wolde geue any cause of dyuysyon agaynst me to hym that vseth to make great dyuysyons vpon smale groundes I shall be content to geue hym his own worde agayne And therfore I pray you good readers euery of you meÌ„de your bokis in the stede of prelates in that place put in spyrytual rulers And wheÌ„ you so haue done y e chauÌ„ge shal for the mater not be very great yet so myche as it shal be shal more serue me then hym ¶ But yet to make me sory y t euer I was so farre ouersene as to take a way his gay golden worde of spyrytuall rulers from hym he begynneth as it were with a great thret â—
surmyseth y t this is This was lo y e cause that made me to speke therof whych cause this maÌ„ gaue hym selfe and therfore nedeth not to meruayle as he doth wherfore I spake therof ¶ And therfore thus haue I good readers now replyed to euery chapyter of his boke by row saue onely y e last thre which go about a good viage into the holy lande a great way farre of fro me And I haue not leped to fro now forwarde now bakward in such maner as he playeth in his answere made vnto me without eyther order kepte or cause apperynge wherfore saue onely the cause that euery man may spye that he wold not haue it sene what places he lefte vntowched Which is in a maner the moste parte of all togyther that in my boke towched the thre chapyters of his And I haue on the tother syde not lefte any one pyece vnproued that my selfe spake of before or that any thynge perteyned vnto me ¶ And therfore where as in the begynnyng of the .xxii. chapyter Symkyn Salem geueth hys sentence vppon the sayde answere to the sayde apologye and alloweth the sayd answere well me thynketh that yf he consydered not onely how myche he hath lefte vnanswered how mych of his owne wordes vndefended whyche he nothynge hath towched at all but ouer that how febly he hath defended those thynges that he hath towched here Salem beynge indyfferent had ben like to haue allowed it but a lytell ¶ For settynge asyde for the whyle all the remanaunt yf he go but to the very pryncypal poynt alone wherin he laboreth to chauÌ„ge and put awaye those good lawes y e chauÌ„ge wherof suche as he deuyseth the decaye of the catholyke fayth and the encreace of heresyes wolde folowe in that poynt alone I say we laye agaynst hym the comen coÌ„sent of this realm And he layeth his own reasoÌ„ agaynst it We laye agaynste hym the consent of y e generall couÌ„sayle And agaynst this he layeth his owne reason We lay agaynst hym the generall approbacioÌ„ of all chrysteÌ„ realmes And agaynst this he layeth his own reason And what is hys owne irrefragable reason that he layth agaynst all this Surely no more as you se but that by those lawes an innoceÌ„t may sometyme take wrong Agaynste this reason we lay hym that yf this reason sholde stande than agaynst malefactours there could no law stande We laye agaynst it also that by his deuyces yf they were folowed by the encreace of heresyes many innocentes must nedes take mych more wronge ¶ To thys answereth he that he wyll not answere that And nowe when Salem seeth that he can not answere that seeth that al the weigth of the mater hangeth vpon that than Sym Salem geueth sentence that he hath answered very well But surely yf suche answeryng be well I wote not whyche way a man myght answere yll ¶ And therfore where as Symkyn Salem sayth that yf this good man wyll he wyll cause a frende of hys answere all the remanaunt he may do this good man a myche more freÌ„dly tourne yf he make hys frende answere this better fyrst that this good man hath answered allredy How be yt yf they lyste thus to geue ouer thys and assaye what they can saye better to any other pyece let theym a goddes name hardely go to for me And yf they saye any thynge metely to the mater I wyll put no frende to payne to make them answere but at leasure coÌ„uenient shal answere them my selfe And where they say well I wyll not let to saye so And where they say wronge I wyll not lette to tell theym But on the tother syde yf they go no better to worke nor no nerer to the mater then thys man hath done I shall peraduenture let them euen alone and lette them lyke theyr wrytynge theym selfe and no man ellys ¶ But now lettynge passe all specyall y t poyntes I shall answere y e generaltyes y t thys good man speketh of Form in the lefe .xc. these are hys wordes And now shall I saye somwhat farther in a generalytye as mayster More hathe done and that yâ— tâ—is that al that I speke in the sayde treatyse was to appeace this diuysyon and not to begynne any neâ—â— coÌ„tynue yt And therfore how they can saue theyr conscyence that saye I dyd rather intende a dyuysyon then agrement I can not tell theyr one conscyâ—nce shall be iudge And I entended also somwhat to mâ—â—e that myght be occasyon to put awaye abusyâ—â—â— euyll examplys and heresyes and not to â—â—crâ—ase theym or maynteyne theym I dare boldely saye ¶ To this I answâ—re that yt neyther was nor is my mynde that men shold thynke y t he ment eâ—yl him self as I haue in many placê of myn apology testified But verily I thought yet thinke y t by some wyly shrewis his boke was so mysse handeled that yt ment nought though he ment wel For where as he sayeth that wyth hys boke of dyuysyon all hys purpose was to appease dyuysyon I wyll not contende wyth hym vppon hys owne mynde But surely thys wyll I saye that yf I hadde ben of the mynde to sow and sette forthe dyuysyon I wold haue vsed euen the selfe same ways to kyndle yt that he vsed as he sayth to quenche yt ¶ Thenne goeth he farther and sayth And farther as mayster More knoweth better then I mentire est contra mentem ire that is to say to lye ys when a man sayeth agaynste hys owne mynde in good fayth in all that treatyse I speke nothynge but that I thought was trew ¶ To thys I answere that in dede suche a thynge I haue redde and as I remembre in Aulus Gellius Whyche thynge though I haue now no leasure to loke for yet two poyntes I remembre therof One that yt ys there mentiri and not mentire whyche infynytyue mode in what boke of grammer this good maÌ„ hath founde I can not tell I was aferd yt had ben ouersene in the prentynge But I haue loked the correccyons and there fynde I no faute founde therin ¶ The tother poynte I remembre that there ys a dyfference putte betwene mâ—ntiri mendacium dicere that is as we myghte saye betwene hym that wyttyngly lyeth and hym that telleth a lye wenyng that it were trewe And here yt is sayde wittyngly not to tell a lye perteyneth to a good man And not to tell a lye vnware is the parte of a wyse man And surely syth the scrypture sayeth that he that shortely byleueth is ouer lyghte thys good man to byleue so many lyes so soon and wyth so many some sayes to set theym forthe in prent to the rebuke and slaunder of the spyrytual iudges and make men wene they mysse handeled men for heresyes though the mannys innocent mynde made the synne the lesse yet was the thyng at the lest no lesse then a very great lyghtnesse ye and also a great profe towarde the reprofe of
great grounde cause euer synnys founden so profytable for preseruacyon of the fayth and proued se necessary vpon thys mannes own deuyces that without great encreace of heresyes they can not be forborne nor neuer can be chaunged but eyther to the strayghter or ellys to the wurse to come now forth and for appeasynge of dyuysyon so we fyrste a slaunder that maye make dyuysyon and than labour to chaunge those lawes vpon none other grouÌ„d but onely that an innocent may happe to take harme by meane of false iudges and than proue not any wronge done but by false some sayes onely agaynste whyche false some sayes the trouth is proued contrary bothe by iuste examynacyon before the kynges counsayle and ouer that playnely by thys one poynte also whyche no man can denye that there ys no lawe prouyded agaynste so great a cryme by whyche lawe lesse people haue in thys realme be punyshed therfore to come nowe thus as thys good man dothe and procure the chaunge of these lawes so olde so good and so necessarye and to make theym more easy wherwyth heretyques wolde war bolde whyche thynge hym selfe as you se denyeth not in the ende what is this good chrysten readers but to procure that the catholyque chrysten fayth myght fade and fall awaye ¶ And yet as for thys man hym self to tell you for conclusyon what I thynke all be yt there are as you se ryghte euyll and perylouse thynges in hys bokes wyth deuyces that wolde make heresyes encrease yet syth he professyth so playnely the catholyque chrysten faythe and by his exhortacyon also towarde the conqueste of the holy lande declareth hys mynde zelouse and â—eruent towarde yt I rather byleue though hym selfe therto saye naye that in those thynges whyche he wryteth so perylouse and so noughte some wyly shrewes begyle the good innocent man than that hym selfe in hys own mynde meane all that harme ¶ But yet for as myche as in thys poynt without syght of maÌ„nes hart we can but go by gesse who so goth by gesse may be deceyued For as hym selfe sayth a wolfe maye loke symply lapte in a shepes skynne I shall therfore trust the best and leue the trouth to god And concernynge suche euyll wrytynges syth yt must nedes be that he wrote them eyther deceyued by some shrewys or ellys but of hym selfe I can no more do for hym but hartely praye for hym thus If shrewys deceyue hym god sende theym shortely from hym If he wrote them of his own mynde thanne syth the thynges be noughte he wrote theym eyther of euyll wyl or of ouersyght If he wrote theym of malyce god geue the euyll man more grace If he wrote theym of folye god geue the good man more wytte ¶ And thus I beseche our lorde sende vs euerychone bothe the spyrytuall and the temporall to bothe wytte and grace to agre to gether in goodnes and eche to loue other and eche for other to praye and for those y â— of both partes are passed into purgatorye and there praye for vs as we praye here for theym that they and we bothe thorowe the merytes of Chrystes bytter passyon maye both wyth our own prayours and the intercessyon of all holy sayntes in heuyn auoydynge the eternall fyre of hell haue pyty powred vpon vs in the very fyre of purgatorye whyche in those two places veryly burneth soules And fynally for our fayth and good workes whych his grace workynge wyth the wylles of thoses y e wytte haue geueth eche good man here good geue vs in heuen to gyther euerlastynge glorye ¶ Prynted by w. Rastell in Fletestrete in saynte Bridys chyrch yarde the yere of our lorde 1533. Cum priuilegio The fautes escaped in the pryntynge of the fyrste part of thys boke fo pa. li. the fautes the ameÌ„demeÌ„tes iii. ii xxii in tenne shetes in .xii. shetes nor    nor in tenne in .xii. v. ii vi oloquye obloquye viii i. ii thre two x. i. x. an a ano a xii ii xii wyt to wyt into xiii ii xvi fole full xv iâ— i. appere â—â— by appere by xviii i. vii fayle whyche fayle to fal which xx ii xxi in conteyneth it conteyneth xxii i. x. that than xxv ii ii of a trew of trew xxv ii xi A And xxxiii ii xix all also xxxix i. xv wordes wordeâ— were xl ii x. yf but yf xlii ii v. pouerty and pouerte nor wold them no lesse then they haue and xliiii ii v. hycausâ— bycause xlv ii xvi iudge iudged xlv ii xviii persons prestes xlvi i. i. betwen prestes betwen other presteâ— xlvi i. vi the prestes the seculer presteâ— xlviii ii xx folke prestes â—â— ii ix therto therwyth lxi ii xxiiâ— iâ— to the is the lxvii i. vâ— no more I no more lxx i. xiv noneces no neces lxxxiii i. xvi aduowter aduowtry lxxxv i. iiii all talkynge all such talkyng lxxxv ii xiii founde fonde lxxxvi ii xii as ys lxxxvii i. iiii wolde they wolde lxxxvii ii xxxiii ther farther lxxxviii i. xxii proued prouyded ci i. xxii thys hyâ— The fautes escaped in the seconde parte fo pa. li. the fautes the ameÌ„demeÌ„tes iiii i. xix playne so playne v. ii i. certayne a certayne v. ii iiii setted setteth v. ii vi hys ground his foundacyon is thys All thys muste be in the great letter vii â—i xi vs therto vs viii i. v. Be By xxi ii xiii in hys hath in hyâ— xxvii i. vii admonicula adminicula xxviii ii iii. made is made xxxvii i. viii meaneth meaneth not xxxvii ii xii hadde it dyd it xli i. iii. it prouyded it was prouyded xlvii i. xxiii dyaloge opologye xlviii i. v. sheweth shewed xlix i. xix so to some to l. ii ix was was not lvi â— viii them then lx ii xxi proueth proue yet lxii j. v the contrary wythout some the coÌ„trary that is to wyt that he wil not trust a iuge so well thys can he not sayâ— wythoute some lxvii j. xviii felony for felony or for lxxi ij vii Almayne of Almayne lxxii j. ii Chryst with all whose Chryst with all whose lxxii ii xxi laâ—ys lanys lxxiiii ii viii But For lxxv ii xiii yf yâ— lxxviâ— ii viii than that lxxx i. xxii If he If we lxxx ii xiiii vp vppon lxxxiii ii xv xvi testyfye be testyfyed lxxxvii ii ii reason that reason xcv ii v. though thought xcviii ii xxiii an englysh englyshe ciii ii xxiiii haue any loâ—e haue loâ—e ciiii ii xi them then cxi j. xi that I and I cxi ii xxii founde fonde cxviii j. iii. doute not also dout also cxviiâ— ii xviii examynacyon excoÌ„munycacyon cxxvi j xviii xix xviii cxxxi j. x. so double double cxxxv j. xx purâ—ose purpose cxxxix ii xii be hygh be so hygh cxlvi j viii than doth than he doth cl j xv ble tably clii j. iâ—ii all thyng euyl all thynge well clii j. v. I fyrste fynysh I fynyshe â—lix j. xiii boldenesse and
of Excommunicato capiendo and so to be brought forth out of the kynges gayoâ—e to anâ—were And it foloweth in the sayd .viii. chapiter thuâ— but surely as it is somwhat touched befâ—re in the .vii. chapyter it semeth that the churche in tyme 〈◊〉 haue done what they coulde to brynge about that they myght punysh heresy of them self wythout calâ—ynge for any helpe therin of the â—ecular power And therfore they haue made lawes that heretykes mâ—ght be arrested and put in pryson and stockes yâ— nede wâ—re as appeâ—eth in Clementinis de hâ—reticis Cap. Multorum querela And after at the specyall calâ—ynge on of the spyrytualty it was enacted by parlyament that orâ—ynaryes myght arest menâ— that precheâ— holde teche or enforme other in heresye there prâ—hâ—â—â—yte or that therof holde any â—onuentycles or â—châ—â—ys For â—â—me men thynke that the sayd Clementine was not of effect in the kynâ—es lawes to arrest any man for heresye But yf a man were openly and notably susâ—ected of heresye and there were suffycyent recorde and wytnes agaynste hym and there were also a dâ—uâ—te that he wolde â—lee and not appere wherby he myght infecte other it â—â—meth coÌ„uenyentâ— that he be arrested by the body but not vpon euery lyght complaynt that full lyghtly may be vntrue And that it wyll be â—yght expedyent that the kynges hyghâ—es and hys consayle â—oke â—pecyally vpon thys mater and not to cesse tyl it be brought to moore quietnes then it is yet and to se with great dylygence that pryde couetyse nor worldly loue be not iudges nor innocentes be punysshed ne yet that wylfull oâ—fenders go not wythâ—ut due correccyon And when maysâ—er More in his apologye hath recyted the sayd wordes of the sayd treaâ—yâ—e then he endeuoyreth hym selâ—e very moch to make it â—ppere that the mocions that he made in the sâ—â—â— treatyse in the place before rehersed be vnreasonable can not be brought aboute or els that yf they weâ—e brought aboute they sholde do hurte and 〈…〉 And to make hys sayenges the more acceptâ—â—â—â— he laâ—eth sometyme defaâ—te in my sayenges and sayth thaâ— I therby defame the iudges spyrytuall where I defame them not but say onely that it is â—â—pedyent that the kyngeâ— hyghnes and hys counsâ—yle se that pryde couetysâ— nor worldly â—one be nâ— iudges And whether thoo wordes amount to that effecte that maysâ—er More sayth they do that is â—â— saye that I defame all spyrytuall iudges it appereth eâ—â—dentely they do not ¶ Now good readers to the entent that you may the more playnely perceyue both the good mynde of thys good mannys fyrst boke of dyuysyoÌ„ and also his secunde boke here in defence of y e same take y e labour to rede the .xlvi. chapyter of myne apologye fo 232. And than shall you thynke I suppose y t all hys defence is so faint that I lytell nede to reply ¶ For fyrst where he sayth that I saye that in those wordes he dyffameth the iudges spyrytuall I wold he had rehersed my wordê with whiche I saye so For I am sure inough my wordê be no larger than y e treuth But that is hys vsuall crafte to leue out for the more part both my wordê the place bycause meÌ„ myght wene it were iÌ„ some part of my boke though they remember not where ¶ But now bycause he sayeth that it is euydent that those wordes of his do not amounte vnto the dyffamacioÌ„ of the spyrytuall iudges I haue shewed and proued in dede in one or two places of myne apologye that aâ—l the great mater of his complaynt vppon the crueltye of the spyrytuall iudges in handelyng men for heresy syth there hath bene very fewe troubled therfore in any dyocise in Englande or Walys by y e space of these xx yeres or .xxx. laste passed except onely Lyncoln and London and that therfore the false complaynt of mysse handelynge could haue lytle colour any farther then those two dyoceses and yet to saye the â—routhe neuer complaynt broughte forth by any suche man but in London dyocese nor yet not but in London and some pyece of Essex alone and the complayntes vppon examinacyon hadde by the kynges honorable counsayle alwaye founde causelesse and false syth thys is I saye so clere that no man can saye the contrarye but that thys is trew I declare and shew in my sayde appologye that where wyth hys false some sayes he defameth and laboreth to brynge in obloquye of the people all the spyrytuall iudges in the realme of wrong and cruell handelynge men for heresye all the men y t his false some says if they were trew dyd touche were yet in dede so few that he myght in a maner as well speke of theÌ„ by name And in very dede so few they be For they be as few or fewer then are the iuges eyther of the tone benche or the tother ¶ And therfore wheÌ„ he cometh now forthe vnder shadowe of a shrewed some saye and sheweth that the spyrytualle men haue a great desyre to put men to abiuracyon and to haue meÌ„ noted of heresy and that therfore tyll they leue that condycyon it were well done they sholde haue lesse authorytie that yt wyll be ryght expedyent that the kynge and hys counsayle loke specyally vppon thys mater and to se wyth great dylygence that pryde couetise nor worldly loue be not iudges nor innocentes punnyshed nor yet that offenders go not wythout dew correccyon ys not this a lewde colored slaunder and wythout any such thynge proued a shame lesse dyffamacyon ¶ If thys good man wold in lyke wyse wryte and put in prent a nother boke and there in speke fyrst of iusâ—yces in generall as it myght sâ—me to touche all the iudges of euery base court iustyces of the peace to and then by some certayn cyrcuÌ„staunces restrayne it in such wyse â—hat euery maÌ„ may se that he meaneth onely the kyngê iuges at wâ—stmynster â— say y t some say that specially of laâ—e the maters of comen plees be euyll haÌ„deled by the iudges and y t in writtes oâ— errour in pleâ—s of the crowne the iudges mysse handle the people sore and do mych wrong that some say that they haue this euyl desyre y t y t tyl they haue left them it were wâ—l done that they had lesse authoryte And theÌ„ after such a false folyshe some sayâ— com forth with his sayeng in approbacyon of his other sayng conclude saye thus myche farther it wyll be ryght expedieÌ„t therfore that the kynges hyghnesse and hys counsayle loke specally vppon this mater and to se wyth great dylygeÌ„ce that pryde couetyce nor worldely loue be not iuges c were this wyly folyshe handelynge no false dyffamacyon at all ¶ And nowe when he handeleth the spyrytuall ordynaryes wyth lyke wordê for heresye and his somesays false ymagyned lyes and though hys boke of dyuison laboreth to draw that false suspicyon farther yet hym selfe seeth by
experyence that whyle there hathe in long whyle but in two dyoceses very fewe bene punyshed for heresye the slaunder that he soweth toucheth some very few no lesse theÌ„ though he wrote in theyr names How caÌ„ he therfore for very shame saye that yt is no dyffamacyon Weneth he the reders of his worke were all such folys that he myght auoyde his playne open dede wyth his bare bolde worde where he sayth yt appereth euydentely nay where euery wyse man that readeth yt seeth well hym selfe that yt well appereth euydently yes ¶ Nowe goeth he farther wyth a nother pyece and sayth Nor yet my wordes proue not that I wolde haue al spyrytuall iudges chaunged For the spyrytuall iudges that be nowe maye be iudges styll and haue al the propertyes before rehersed as well as other for any thyng that I haue sayd And yet mayster More taketh yt otherwyâ—e and sayeth I wolde haue such iudges as haue no spyce of any of the sayd poyntes And he sayth that tyll suche iudges may be founde heretykes may make mery for a lytle season whyâ—e men walke aboute and seche for such iudges which he weneth wyll not be done in a wekes worke ¶ Here he leueth oute agayne the place of myne that he toucheth For when that is ones redde all hys gay tale is gone For there shall you se that I consyder hys wordes and declare two wayes that the good man myght meane of whyche twanne he taketh here the tone and the tother he letteâ—h slype And yet in takynge his wordes as he wolde nowe seme my wordes whyche he dyssembleth here turne vppe aâ—l his tale and that the man sawe full well and therfore wynked of theym But I shall brâ—nge theym in agayne here and repeâ—e theym for hym Lo good readers in y â— .xlvi. chapiter fo 253. after hâ—s wâ—rdes rehersed at length thus I 〈◊〉 myne owne Iâ— thys processe lo good readers this pacyfyer declareth that he wold haue the kynges hyghnes and hys counsayle so specyally loke vppon thys mater that neyther innocentes sholde be punyshed nor yet wylfull offenders go wythoute dewe correccyonâ— who could ende and coÌ„clude all hys mater more frutefully But now the specyall ways wherby he dyuyseth that the kynges hyghnesse and his counsayle sholde bryng this thynge about be twayne The tone is yf they prouyde that neyther men that be proude nor couetouse nor haue any loue to the worlde be suffred to be iudges in any cause of hâ—resye The tother ys that the byshoppes shall arreste no man for heresye tyll the desyre that spyrytuall men haue to cause men abiure heresyes and to punyshe theym for heresyee be ceased and gone And surely I thynke that his two dyuyses wyll serue suffycyently for the tone parte that ys to wytte that none innocentes shall be punyshed But I fere me very sore that they wyll not serue halfe so suffycyently for the tother parte that ys to wytte that wylfull offendours go not with oute correccyon For now to begynne with his fyrst dyuyse that none be suffred to be iudges in cause of heresye y t are proude or couetouse or haue loue to y e world yf he meane of suche as haue none of these affeccyons wyth notable enormyte then tyll he proue theym that are all redy worse thenne he proueth them yet that is to saye tyll he proue yt otherwyse by some of they re outragyouse dedes in the dealynge and myshandelyuge of men for heresy y t he here defameth them of theÌ„ he hath yet proued and that he proue they re cruell wrongful dealynge otherwyse then by somesayes or by hys owne sayenge the kynges hyghnes hys counsayle can se for all hys holesome counsayle no cause to chaunge those iudges that are all redy but to leue them styll and them serueth that dyuyse of nought And on the other syde yf he meane that the kynges hyghnesse shal suffer none to be iudges in cause of heresye that hath any spyce at all eyther of pryde or of couetyse or any loue at all vnto thys worlde heretykes may syt styll and make mery for a lytle season whyle men walke about and seke for such iuges For yt wyl not be lesse then one whole wekes worke I wene both to finde such and to be sure that they be suche ¶ Here haue you herd good reders a resonable cause why that I sholde take hym that he wolde haue the spyrytuall iuges such as shold haue no spice of pride couetouse nor worldly loue For either he must meane so or elles as I sayde he must meane on the tother maner which I reherse fyrste and whych he wold now seme to mean But then as I haue sayd yf he ment in the fyrst fashyon as he wolde now seme all his tale is ouer turned For then hadde he no cause of any suche complaynte For he nâ—yther hadde hym selfe when he wrote nor any man elles preued by any of theym the contrary And then neded he not to spende oute hys profounde wysedome in makynge suche exhortacyons to the kynges hyghnesse and his counsayle to se with so great dilygence as though they had be so long neglygent to the thyng that him self could not say nay but y t it was metely well ynough all redy And thus you se good reders that he lefte oute and dissembled that fyrst part of my wordes bycause he wysâ—e nere what to saye therto And therfore syth except he meÌ„t in the fyrst maner which he could not do without the marryng of all his mater you se well that him self droue me to thynke that he wold haue the kynges grace and his counsayle se dylygently that there shold be no spyrituall iudgê but they y t had no spice of pryde couetise or worldly loue at all And then myghte heretyques as I sayd whyle suche iudges were in sekynge make mery for a lytle whyle And I kepte my selfe metely well wythin my boundes For where I sayde yt wolde be a wekes worke to seke theym I wene yt wold he fourtenyght ful ere we founde them ¶ But then gooth he farther somewhat aboute to shewe that I haue mysse handeled his wordes wyth ioynynge myne owne vnto his haue made yt seme that he sayeth myche worse by the spyrytualtye then he eyther sayde or ment But when you haue herde all hys tale and myne to you shall well se good readers that he shall neuer whyle he lyueth conuey this gere so clene For these are fyrste his wordes here And he sayeth that yt wyll be the more harde to â—ynde suche iuges For he sayth that I haue putte that mater oute of doute that where no men wolâ—e haue wende â—oneste to haue founde theym that there I saye yt wyll be meruaylouse harde to â—ynde any one of theym eyther prelates seculere prestes or relygyouse persons For he saythe that I saye playnely that haue they neuer so many vertues besyde that yet I saye yt wyll be harde to fynde any one spyrytuall man
declare hym selfe indyfferent and to shewe also a great ouersyght vsed vppon my parte thus the good man Some say sayth And therfore yt semeth ryght expedyent that the sayd law be repelled And in lyke wyse it were good to repelle all suche lawes spyrytuall as be made coÌ„trarye to the kynges lawes and the custome of the realme And yf yt be sayde that yt were good also that suche statutes and lawes as be made and vsed by the temporall power to the grefe of the people were also reformed and that yf I were indyfferente I wolde make some mocyon so to hâ—uâ— yt And so it semeth maysier More doth parteâ—◠〈◊〉 that I ought to haue done to haue founde 〈◊〉 defaute in the temporall lawe as in the spyryâ—â—â—ll lawe How be yt bycause be wolde beare n◠〈◊〉 of the temporall lawe in that mocyon yt sâ—mâ—th that he somwhat mytygateth hys sentence 〈◊〉 and sayeth that yf I do so and that then I 〈◊〉 theym that ys saye the temporall lawes and â—ynde defautes at them as trewly as I do at theseâ— that is to saye at the spyrytuall lawes that then I shulde make two lyes for one and yet as I suppose I haue assigned some defautes in the spyrytuall lawe whyche mayster More can not tell howe they shulâ—â—â—e excused ¶ As to hys repellynge I se as I haue sayde no substaunce in hys wordes For we repell theym as farre as I se we can when we kepe theym not but make our owne lawes to the coÌ„trary And therfore as farre as I se all that he speketh of these repellynges saue onely for settynge forth of his dyuysyon is ellys but a very vayne tale ¶ But nowe where he sayeth that I wolde haue hym and seme to moue hym to fynde fautes in the temporall lawe to I wote nere whether his wordâ— haue herein more falsed or more foly but surely they haue both twayn and eyther the tone or the tother double ¶ For fyrste euery man maye se by his owne wordes euen here that I moue hym not to vse as for indyfferâ—ncye to fynde fautes in the temporall lawes as he hath done wyth the spyrytuall lawes when hym selfe here sheweth that I saye that yf he so dyd he sholde make double lyes This sheweth that he vseth in thys saynge playne and open vntrouthe And syth hys owne vntrouthe appereth vppon hys owne shewynge thys sheweth also that he vseth open foly ¶ And where he sayeth that he hath assygned some defautes in the spyrytuall lawes which I can not tel how they sholde be excused I answere hym agayne that vnto all lawes or all maters that he lyste to bable of am I not bounde to medle wyth but of these spyrytuall â— lawes that were made for the repressyng of heresyes wyth whyche oure temporall lawes are also conformable and concurrauÌ„t wyth whyche â— thys good wyse man for the ease of heretyques hath now founden suche fautes as a wyse man maye be ashamed to speke of I haue clerely declared that they nede not to be excused but that for the fyndynge of suche fautes hys foly to be myche accused Thys haue I proued so playne that he can fynde no great cause of glorye when he lokath backe vppon yt ¶ But nowe to th entent you maye good readers se that eyther this man is not so symple in hym selfe as he semeth or els that some wyly shrewes shamefully do deceyue hym I beseche you consyder a lytle eyther the foly or the crafte that the man vseth here ¶ He hathe brought you forth wordes of myne whych I speke he sayth of the lawes where as of trouthe I speke theym not of the lawes at all as your selfe shall well se. For though he dyssemble the place bycause he wolde not haue you reade yt yet haue I soughte yt oute for you in the .99 lefe of myne Apologye and there lo these are my wordes And thys pacyfyer aggreueth as myche as in hym lyeth the clergye of Englande for vse of the lawes not made by theym selfe but be commen lawes of all chrystendome If he wyll saye that he blameth but theyr abuses therof the trouth appereth in some place otherwyse in hys boke And yet syth he proueth that poynte but by a some saye he myght wyth the same fygure lay lyke fautes in the temporaltye concernynge the lawes of thys realme and proue yt in lyke wyse wyth a greate Somme say to And therin he sheweth him self not indyfferent whan he bryngeth in the tone and leueth the tother out And on the tother syde yf he brynge in the tother to than shall he make two fawtes for one For yf he handle them as truely as he handeleth these than shall he make two lyes for one ¶ Lo good readers consyder here I bysech you the maner of thys good man To the fyrst piece of these wordes of myne in whyche case is also the law that we be now in hand with al vt inquisitioÌ„is wherwith he wold in hys boke of dyuysyon aggreue the clergye of this realme whych neuer made the lawe he answereth not in all his boke one word And yet in his such maner of aggreuynge he vseth a very synfull and in hys not answerynge a very shamfull waye ¶ Than in the remanaunt you se good readers your self that I speke not of the lawes For whan I saye thus yf he wyll say that he blameth but theyr abuses therof yet syth he proueth that point but by a Somsay he myghte by the same fygure laye lyke fawtes in the temporalty to concernyng the lawes of this realme is it not here playne that I laye blame in hym for hys bylying of the mynistres of the spyrytuall lawes vnder a figure of Somsay as though they abused the spyrytuall lawes in myssehandelynge of heretykes wherof I speke more aftâ—r And I saye that by a lyke figure of Some say he might dyffame all the temporall mynisâ—res to and brynge theym in grudge and obloquy of the peple wyth lyke lyes of abusyng the temporal lawes to ¶ Now consyder good readers eyâ—ther how faâ—sely thys honest man hath hym self or ellys how folyshly he hath suffered false shrewys to make hym turne and chaunge the sentence of my wordes fro the men to the lawes to brynge in his maters vppon and say that I moue hym to fynde fawtes in the temporal lawes and put them in prâ—nâ—e abrode as he doth in the tother whâ—re as you playnely se I speke not of the lawes but of the mynisâ—res nor yet aduise hym to vse suche fasshyon wyth the temporaâ—l mynystres neyther leste he make two lyes for one ¶ Is not now thys chaunge of my sentence that he maketh here a very shamelesse dealynge eyther of hym selfe or of some shrewed counsayle of hys ¶ And now knytteth he to this handelynge the remanaunt of the sayde .xix. chapyter and sheweth that he speketh fyrste of the spyrytuaâ—tye bycause the causes of the dyuysyon specyally be growen by theym and layeth forthe a sorte