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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10699	A Catholicke conference betvveene Syr Tady Mac. Mareall a popish priest of VVaterforde, and Patricke Plaine a young student in Trinity Colledge by Dublin in Ireland VVherein is deliuered the certayne maner of execution that was vsed vpon a popish bishop, and a popish priest, that for seueral matters of treason were executed at Dublin the first of February, now last past. 16ll. Strange to be related, credible to be beleeued, and pleasant to bee perused. By Barnabe Rych, Gent. seruant to the Kinges most excellent Maiestie.	Rich, Barnabe, 1540?-1617.	1612 (1612)	STC 20981; ESTC S115901	41,203	61

Church hath thus decreede and a good Catholicke should admit of nothing else nor neuer seeke further Pa. You were best to sticke fast to that ankerholde for if the authoritie of your Pope be not able to countervaile both Peter and Paul yea and to waigh vp Christ himselfe your whole religion is but Idolatry superstition and hypocrisie Ta. I tell you for the approbation of our religion although we had no Scriptures to helpe vs yet we haue such other circum stances whereby to confirme it as I hope the proudest Protestant in all your Colledge will be ashamed to make any doubt in the matter Pa. Our Protestants in the Colledge would be ashamed to make doubt of any thing that is apparantly true Ta. But they must haue scriptures for their confirmation I am sure they doe looke for that Pa. If it be for doubts in religion for matters of faith or for thinges that doe concerne our saluation they will beleeuc nothing but what is testified and to be approued by the Scriptures Ta. Then they stand vppon good securitie and so a man may trust a Dogge with a shoulder of mutton but these are vnbeleeuing Apostles that will not acknowledge Christ to be risen vnlesse with Thomas Dydimus they may feele the print of his woundes with their owne fingers but blessing light on them that haue not seene and yet will beleeue the Reuelations that haue bin sent the Visions that haue beene seene and the Myracles that haue bin wrought to the comfort of Catholickes and the confirmation of their religion let all the Diuines that be in your Colledge that doth so much impugne our Catholicke religion bring foorth but one Myracle that doth make for them and we will drop ten for one against them for the approuing of ours Pa. Indeed we bring no Myracles whereby to fortifie our religion but such as were performed by Christ and his Apostles many hundred yeares sithens Ta. And they be old ande ouer worne but we haue them euerie day spicke and span newe Miracles vppon Myracles one in anothers necke and those most admirable and strange to be reported Pa. And I thinke no lesse incredible to be beleeued Ta. For the certainety of them there is none will doubt but heretickes and now if I should speake but of halfe the Myracles that are expressed in our Catholicke hystories I might easely find matter wherewith to begin but neuer finde time when to make an ende I will therefore ouerpasse our Golden Legend a whole volume of Miracles extant in Folio besides many other that are contained in one holy booke of Conformities where mention is made aswell of birdes as beastes that came flocking together about Saint Francis to heare him preach and howe the Nighting gales and other singing birdes woulde come helpe him to sing Masse but these are of an old date I will therefore come to new matter what Myracles haue beene lately performed by our Lady of Hall set downe by Iustus Lypsius a most learned Iesuite who now but within these very few yeares write two learned Bookes full of Catholicke doctrine in the prayse of two Images the one of them called our Lady of Hall the other by the name of our Lady of Sichem both of them the Images of our blessed Lady the Virgine Mary the which two Images as Lypsius affirmeth haue performed greater myracles then the scriptures do testifie were done by Christ himselfe There is mention made of ten seuerall persons that were deliuered in a great extremitie from the danger of death but by thinking of our Lady of Hall Seuen others that were already dead were restored agayne to life being but layed before her Image now for curing of all maner of diseases as to make the dumbe to speake the deafe to heare the blind to see the lame to goe they are common things matters of small account shee dooth them with ease and great dexterity But amongst a number of other Myracles I will deliuer one for the comfort of Falconers Lypsius confidently reporteth in this foresaide booke that an angry disposed Lord would haue hanged his Falconer for loosing of his hawke and when the rope was about his necke and hee ready to bee executed hee did but call to his mind our Lady of Hall and at the very instant of his thought the hawke came flying and lighted on his shoulders and so saued his life I thinke I might weary the wisest man in Ireland if I shoulde set downe all what Lypsius hath reported of these two Ladies Pa. Doth your Lady of Hall vse to take no money for these cures you speake of doth she all these thinges gratis without any further consideration Ta. What miserable wretch would be so vngratefull as not to bestowe an offering of the mother of mercy Pa. Then I see it is not out of kinde for Ladies to take offerings but doe you call your Lady of Hall the mother of mercy Ta. Patricke be not an enemy to thine owne destruction doe but consider of this that followeth and vse thine owne iudgement This booke thus published by Lypsius of the Myracles that were performed by our Lady of Hall was contradicted by a Protestant minister of the lowe countries whereuppon Clarus Bonarscius a famous and a most learned Iesuite that was abiding in Antiwarpe but within these three or foure yeares which worthie champion of the Church of Rome incountered this deprauing Protestant this lowe countrey minister writing a booke agaynst him which he intituled The great Theater of the Iesuites honour in which booke amongst a great deale of other Catholicke matter in a most eloquent and learned manner he inveyeth and bitterly rageth against Protestants in generall forbearing to disgrace neither prince nor pesant that are not deuoted to the Catholicke Church of Rome and was not ashamed to detect and reprooue some Protestant princes particularly without any respect either to their estate or dignitie hauing thus clarkly rayled and raged against them he spendeth a little time to speake of his friend Lip sius whom when he had highly extolled for his Catholick zeale in writing of those 2. bookes he composeth an excellent poeme in the honour of our Lady of Hall the which he dedicateth to her selfe and to her young sonne In this Poeme amongst other Catholicke matters he confidently affirmeth the milke of our Lady to bee equall in comparison with the bloud of Christ and that our sinnes are cured aswell by her milke as by his bloud That God hath diuided his king dome with our Lady reseruing iustice to himselfe and yeelding mercy to her That a man may appeale from God to our Lady and that sins are sooner forgiuen by her intercession then by the mediation of Iesus Christ. Pa. But is it possible Syr Tady that any such booke shoulde be extant as you report wherein should bee published so horrible blasphemy Ta. Are you not ashamed to vse any such tearmes or to aske any such question I tell you there

the light which we haue receiued from the scriptures your holy father can neyther merchādize the soules nor emptie the purses of so many men as he was wont to doe Ta. I tell you it is not necessary that the vnlearned and ignorant people should either looke into the Scriptures or vnderstande our prayers Pa. Nor may they not heare them reade when they come to Church Ta. Wherefore should they else come to church but to heare both Matins and Masse Pa. Then these words Beati qui audiunt verbum Dei et custodiunt ipsum is thus to be vnderstoode Blessed are they that heare the word of God and knowes not what it meaneth Ta. Our doctrine is very curious not for all to vnderstand Pa. Pray God it be not as dangerous for any to followe Ta. If there be any danger in the seruice of the Church it must be amongst Protestants where euery blinde minister may goe vp into a pulpite and teach what he list Pa. Indeede the Protestant ministers haue not halfe so manie trickes and turns whips and slips mops and moes as your priest that is at Masse Ta. Euery vnlearned Catholicke doth knowe his time when to stand vp when to kneele downe when to adore when to say Amen when to come and when to goe Pa. Indeede vse doth worke misteries and long practise hath taught them to keepe their Row to kneel when they heare the Sance-bell ring to adore when they see the Hoast ouer the priests head to stand vp when he is walking of his statiōs from the one ende of the Altar to the other but may this knowledge serue thinke you for saluation Ta. Doe you make doubt of that if the people but know this and when to say Amen it is enough Pa. How vnwise was Saint Paul then not to foresee this method for as it should seeme by his Epistle to the Corinthians the people were as good to say Amen when the Sance-bell ringeth as to the priest when he mumbleth vp his Liturgies which neyther himselfe nor they vnderstande Ta. I will not speake of the peoples knowledge but I say hee is but a sory priest that doth not vnderstand asmuch as is contayned in his Portes Pa. It is an easie matter indeede for a priest to say Masse out of his owne booke but to vnderstand what hee readeth it were a goodly matter to finde one amongst tenne that could doe it Ta. To reade well and distinctly is as much as we require wee are not so precise as your puritan Protestants Pa. Yet none more ignorant then your puritan papists as one of your Catholicke priests approued himselfe at the Christening of a childe Ta. I neuer heard of the name before nor I beleeue your selfe did euer know a papist that was a puritan Pa. Ireland is full of them where we may find more precise folly amongst the papistes of that country then is to bee founde in Italy or Spaine Ta. Your country-men I perceiue are little beholding to you but out with your ta●e of the christening of a child wher you say a papist did showe himselfe a puritan Pa. If you will haue it for a tale let it passe for a tale a true tale it is and thus it followeth but yet within the compasse of memorie an honest townsman whose name was Browne had kept his eldest sonne so long to schooll that in the beginning of Queene Maries raygne being growne vp to mans estate for his great learning and clarkeship was thought fitte to be made a massing priest by the aduise of his friendes and his owne assent he tooke orders and where beefore hee was called by the name of Tom Browne by his priestly dignitie he had this adition and was cald by the name of Sir Thomas Tom Browne It was not long but he was inuested with a benefice and a childe was brought to him to be baptized our priest that had neuer christned before betooke himselfe aforehand to looke ouer his booke and reading till he came to Abrenuntias Sathanum et omniaopera at these wordes he began to blesse himselfe and making the signe of the Crosse on his forehead he called to his assistance the Clarke that stood fast by and demanded of him what those wordes might meane the Clarke that was as ignorant as master parson himselfe tould him he vnderstoode no latine and therefore coulde not satisfie him whereuppon Syr Thomas was strucke into a great amazement for he vnderstoode neuer a worde but Sathanum and that he was sure was latine for the deuill And for the diuelles name to be vsed in the christening of a childe hee thought was far vnfit for so godly an exercise thinking therefore the worde to bee mistaken would needes seeke out a better to supply the place scraping out Sathanum he put in Christum And thus where it stood before wilt thou forsake the diuell and all his workes Syr Thomas had in this sort mended the matter Wilt thou forsake Christ and all his workes to the which the gossips in the childes name must answer Abrenuncio I forsake them Ta. I thought your tale would tend to a good purpose but admit that this were true yet here was no puritāisme the worst you can make of it was but a little mistaking and that proceeded from a godly zeale and a religious intent Pa. If you had ioyned ignorance with your zeale you hadde shot something neare the marke but by this you may perceyue how necessarie it is that both priest and people should vnderstād what is reade and taught in the Church Ta. In our prayers we speake to God and not to men there fore I see no reason why euery man should looke to vnderstand what we reade or what we say Pa. But it is the people and not God that needeth the priests voyce in the Church prayer Ta. The priest is the mouth of the Church and therefore hee must speake for the whole congregation Pa If it be needfull for the priest to speake it is as necessary for the people to vnderstand Ta. It is needfull for the priest to speake and to make intercession for the people vnto God but in such a language as is acceptable vnto God Pa. God with whom there is no respect of persons hath lesse respect to tongues Ta. The Hebrue Greeke and Latine were all three sanctified in our Sauiours Crosse and therefore it hath beene long sithens decreede by the holy Church that God should be honored and serued in one of those three learned languages Pa. But who set vppe those learned titles was it Christ or Pylate Ta. What though they were set vp by Pylate those three languages were onely dedicated to the Crosse Pa. Then Pilates impietie that deliuered Christ to bee crucified proclaiming the sonne of God for a traytor and to aspire the Crowne of Iurie in Hebrue Greeke and Latine must prescribe a rule to the Church of God against the Apostle Corin. 14. Ta. It is enough to say that the

were two bookes first written by Iustus Lypsius wherin he deliuered the Myracles that were performed by our Lady of Hall and by our Lady of Sichem and for this booke intituled The great I heater of the Iesuites honour written by Bonarscius in the defence of Lypsius it hath beene thrice printed within these foure or fiue yeares now last past twice at Antiwarpe and once at Paris with alowance and authoritie in both places and for the better approbation of the matter one other learned father Possiuine a thirde Iesuite who in his Apparatus sacer hath giuen notice to the world that Lypsius did publish such awo●ke and giues him speciall commendations for his paynes taking in the Catholicke cause who would thinke now that these bookes could be thus published without controlment but that they are warranted by our holy father himselfe and by the whol Church of Rome for vndoubted truthes But what need I trauell to fetch home myracles from beyond the seas when Ireland it selfe doth so plentifully afforde them that in euery quarter of the Realme What Myracles are continually wrought at Saint Patrickes purgatory at the Holy Crosse at Saint Sondayes well and doth not all the north of Ireland admire the Myracles that haue bin wrought by Saint Colume Kell But let me drawe somewhat neare to your Colledge it selfe are you not eye witnesses howe euery 17. of March what flocking there is of men women and children to that same holy sanctified poole Saynt Patrickes well I hope you doe not thinke the wholl multitude that doe so yearely frequent the place to bee starke mad to come running thither so thicke if they did not finde somesanctitie in the water I warrant you they are not so arrant fooles as a nūber of those that do vse to take Tabacco that wil be stil stuffing thēselues with smoak but vpō a vaine conceit But is not this a miracle especially to be admired to see so many women Tauerne keepers that for conscience sake wil eate no flesh on Frydaies that some of them do not ride in a Cart on Saturdayes Pa. Syr Tady if these myracles bee any confirmation to your Romish religion I could furnish your store with such like as for the reuerence of the Reader I shame and for the honour of God I feare to speake of But this is a myracle in our eyes to see that the papistes should affye themselues in a religion that is but propped vp with such stuffe as this we do asmuch wōder to see their blindnes that wil be drawne from the truth of Gods word to beleeue such grosse and palpable follyes lyes fables and fantazies of their owne deuising but that the Apostle hath giuen vs this caueat And therefore God shall send them strong delusions that they should beleeue Lyes that all they might be damned which beteeued not the truth but had pleasure in vnrighteousnes 2. Thes 2. Ta. Do you callthese fables lyes fantasies I cannot tell what that are thus fortified and confirmed vnder these authorities Pa. I say we may boldly pronounce your Romish religion to bee accursed that would bring that blessed Virgin in comparison with God and Iesus Christ thereby eclipsing the glory of Gods mercy and the worthines of Christes satisfaction Ta. If you fall a cursing of those that doe giue honour to the Queene of heauen her selfe what will you pronounce against those that doe both honour and worshippe to the Image of our Lady Pa. Doe not you thinke that the worshipping of Images is flat Idolatry Ta. Yes if you meane the worshipping of the Idoles of the heathen Pa. I meane the Images of the virgin Mary of Peter of Paul or of Christ himselfe Ta. Doe you call the Image of Christ an Idoll Pa. If it be worshipped it is an Idoll and the burning of Incense vnto it is flat Idolatry Ta. Dare any damned hereticke auouch this Pa. It is approued by the second commandement Thou shalt not make to thy selfe any grauen Image nor the likenes of any thing that is in heauen aboue or in the earth beneath Ta. But doth this precept touch the Image of Christ or our blessed Lady Pa. It toucheth any thing that is made with handes that is worshipped bowed or kneeled vnto Ta. This can not bee vnderstoode of the Image of the true God for if the Images of Princes may be reuerenced and no Idolatry committed much more the Image of God Pa. Earthly similitudes of mans owne making must not controle the heauenly preceptes of Gods owne giuing the Images of Princes of those meaner personages may well bee tollerated and yet to bowe the knee to lift vp the hand or to doe worshipp to such an Image there is no doubt but it were Idolatry God hath commaunded and that directly that no grauen Image should be made now if any grauen Image of God might be worshipped why might it not bee made since it cannot bee worshipped before it bee made Ta. O monstrous abhomination what an heresie is this that the Image of the true God should be accounted for an Idoll Pa. The Image of the true God being made with handes is a false God and no likenes of his but a lewde and a foolish imagination of those that would so imagine it for what resemblance hath a dead stocke or a stone fashioned like a man and painted or gilded ouer to the glorious inuisible and infinite maiesty of the euer liuing God and how dare any man defend the worshipper of such an Image when God himselfe hath accursed the maker Ta. Idolatries be those when they be done to the Images thēselues but our worshippings are not such for wee worshippe not the earthly matter or shape but rather the things that are represented by them Pa. So did the Israelites when they set vpp the golden Calfe to testifie their thankfullnes for their deliuerance out of Egypt they erected an Image vnto God their deliuerer and proclaymed a holy day not to the Calfe but to the Lord. Ta. May we not giue some reuerence to the Image of Christ though he be in heauen aswell as you do to the Thrones and Letters of Princes when themselues be not present Pa. What grosser Idolatry may be committed if wee may not worship the creatures thēselues that are the workes of Gods handes and yet will adore and worship those Images and Idols that are but the workes of mens handes Ta. Is is not acceptable vnto GOD to haue the shape of his Sonne alwayes before our eyes that we may the rather honour him in our hearts Pa. And sith without Images we must remember the Father that made vs which cannot be resembled to any similitude why should we forget the Sonne that hath redeemed vs but wee must haue an Image at our elbowe to put vs in remembrance Ta. It is testified that the Apostles themselues did both make and worshippe Images Pa. It had neede be a stronge testimonye that should confirme that for a certayne