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A54177 The new witnesses proved old hereticks, or, Information to the ignorant in which the doctrines of John Reeve and Lodowick Muggleton, which they stile, mysteries never before known, revealed, or heard of from the foundation of the world, are proved to be mostly ancient whimsies, blasphemies and heresies, from the evidence of Scripture, reason and several historians : also an account of some discoourse betwixt L.M. and my self, by which his blasphemous, ignorant and unsavory spirit is clearly and truly manifested, in love to the immortal souls of those few, who are concern'd in the belief of his impostures / by a living true witness to that one eternal way of God, revealed in the light of righteousness W.P. Penn, William, 1644-1718. 1672 (1672) Wing P1326; ESTC R15258 38,470 64

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so span the Heavens with a great Hand and rid with a mighty Body upon the Circle of the Earth which how ridiculous and false soever it is is as true as Reeve's or Muggleton's Conceit Thus far indeed they would be in the right by such a Consequence That Almighty God would have a Body but they would grosly lye in the dimensions of it who say 'T is no bigger then a middle statured man Thus much If not too much upon this piece of old vain Anthropomorphitism That this idle Opinion is against that Understanding which God has given Men to judge of the Difference of Things we also prove First If God were a Person of mans stature it would destroy his Ubiquity or Omnipresence which is one of his most divine Properties rightly attributed to him For how is it possible so inconsiderable a Body can be at all places at one and the same time by which to see and understand all things or to administer Strength and Comfort to his scatter'd Flock throughout the World Secondly If they would say he is present by his Spirit as read Reeve's Epistle to his Divine Looking-Glass I affirm against all Muggletonians upon Earth That then not that Body but that Omnipresent Spirit is the truly in infinite God Thirdly But I would fain know how God and his Spirit can be divided or separated Can any man be truly such whose spirit is absent from him What Body is a living Body without a spirit any more than Faith can be living without Works How then can God's Body no bigger then a Mortal Man's be contained in Reeve's and Muggleton's conceited Heaven and his Spirit every where Where God's Spirit is God is he can never be divided from his own Life and Spirit for God is that Spirit or that Spirit is God they are synonimously or equivolently to be taken This the Apostle believed when he told the Athenians That God was nigh to every one of them and in him they lived moved and had their Beeing Fourthly How was it possible for Reeve to hear God speak with a Voice of words from beyond the Stars as one Body speaks to another and no Body hear besides himself nor the visible Firmament or Air to receive any Alteration or Disposure as ever was when Voices of Words have been uttered whether to Moses or of Christ or otherwise If any say It was a spiritual Voice such talk sottishly no Carnal Ear can hear a Spiritual Voice as Reeve himself teacheth page 47. T.S.T. concerning which something may be fitly hinted else-where Fifthly But I would add from their wicked Principles That if Man be God's Image in reference to his Body then because Reeve and Muggleton declare that a select number of men's Bodies and Souls are pre-ordain'd to be eternally damned therefore God has decreed his own Image to everlasting Vengeance and that to glorifie himself too which one Horrible Impiety I desire all to weigh and then there needs no farther undertaking to his Confutation That this OLD and also Exploded HERESIE I prove This wonderful dark Secret is to be read in Theodorus of Heresies the 4th Book and 10th Chapter where he speaks of one Audaeus who lived in Coelosiria in the time of Constantius the Emperor and grounded his Conjecture upon these words Let us make man after our Image Also several Monks inhabiting Aegypt conceited the God that made Heaven and Earth to be no bigger then a Man Of which Opinion with Muggleton was one Theaphilus of Alexandria they were called Anthropomorphits as may at large be seen in Eusebius Pamphilus his 6th Book and 36th Chapter also in Socrates Scholasticus his six and seven Books this was about the Year after Christ 403. and One thousand two hundred sixty nine years since Secondly THeir second Secret is That God did not create the Heavens and Earth out of Nothing but the Substance was with God from Eternity T.S.T. p. 12. That this also inconsistent with SCRIPTURE we prove First In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth and the Earth was without form and void Gen. 1.1 2. If they were created before they were formed as saith the place then Creation and Formation are not one and the same thing as Reeve and Muggleton assert in their Transcendent Spiritual Treatise p. 16. so that either the Authority of Scriptures must be denyed or else Creation is first a bringing forth of the Chaos or rude Substance and Formation the Disposition of it into such Parts and Designation unto such Ends or Services as that all wise Creator might think most befitting his great Work Enough might be said on this one particular to confute all with whom the Scriptures remain of any force Secondly Hearken unto me O Jacob and Israel my called I am he I am the first I also am the last my Hand also has laid the Foundation of the Earth Isa 48.12 13. To be first and to have laid the very Foundation of anothers Beeing supposeth that thing neither to be before it nor so much as in time equal with it and therefore denotes priority and superiority Wherefore thus I argue If God was before so much as the Foundation of the Earth was laid then was neither the Earth nor Foundation of it from Eternity with God But the Text affirms That God was first or before the very Foundation was ever laid therefore neither the Earth nor Superstructure as to its Form nor yet its Foundation or first material Principle was Co-eternal In short Nothing can be said to create any thing that is equal in time with it because such Creation supposeth the one to receive its being from the other and since God gave its Foundation or first bottom the very material Principle it follows there could be no Co-eternity betwixt them Thirdly And the Word was God All things were made by him John 1.1 13. If all things were made by him then both Heaven and Earth because they are part of all things were made by him but the place says all things or whatever has beeing were made by him therefore a●● Co-eternity of Earth or Heaven with the Everlasting God is excluded and refuted To this answers that Passage of the Apostle Paul in the Acts God that made the World and all things therein c. Fourthly To c●nclude this Head For by him were all things created and 〈◊〉 before 〈◊〉 things and by him all things c●n●●st Collos 1 16.17 And thou Lord in the beginning hast laid the Foundation of the Earth and the Heavens are the Works of thy Hands Heb. 1.10 That which had a Beginning which was made and which was and is upheld by another neither can have been contemporary nor co-eternal with that from which it received its Beeing but that did the Heaven and the Earth and from Almighty God as the place proves Therefore not Co-eternal with him Nor can their idle shift any wayes secure them from the dint of these Scriptures nor the Arguments built