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A72174 A briefe discourse of certaine points of the religion which is among the commõ sort of Christians, which may bee termed the countrie diuinitie with a manifest confutation of the same, after the order of a dialogue / compiled by George Gifforde. Gifford, George, d. 1620. 1582 (1582) STC 11846; ESTC S5348 72,465 187

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not go a great way of to buy his corne rather then starue Zelot He is a starke foole which wil not go a great way rather thē starue his body but he is not a foole which wil not once step out at his dore for to seeke the euerlasting foode of his soule Ath. Those are not alike wée must néedes séeke for to liue Zelot Noe you cannot see them for too bee a like you see well in thinges of this worlde but for heauenly thinges yee see nothing but to come to the matter it is great pitie in deede that there shoulde be such disorder as that men should runne from towne to towne to heare sermons Our Sauiour Christe pitied them when they came into the wildernesse for to heare him because hee saith they were as sheepe without a sheepehearde But you and your mates are not grieued with the same pitie yee are as like a malicious dogge as can ●ee which lyeth vppon the hay and will eare none neither will suffer the Oxe which woulde Woe bee vnto yee Scribes and Pharisees yee Hypocrites ye shut vppe the kingdome of heauen before men yee enter not in your selues neither doe yee suffer those which would enter Mat. 23 14. Ath. You say they goe to séeke foode for their soules and to learne for to know God but they doe it of vaine glorie Zelot There be alwaies some no doubt which doe not seeke of a syncere minde but of vaine glorie and doe abuse their knoweledge and are vainelie puffed vp in themselues with an opinion of those things which are not in them but will you giue sentence against all because some are such Is this a good argument men giue almes for vaine glorie men come to the Church and pray of vaine glorie Therefore almes and prayer are to be left for doubtlesse some doe those thinges for vaine glorie euen as our Sauiour Christe accuseth the Scribes and Pharisees Ath. But Christ biddeth vs doe those thinges Nowe will yee prooue that we are commanded to doe this Zelot I knowe no place which hath in plaine woordes Goe vnto other countreis or townes for to heare preaching and whie because the will of God is that they shoulde haue preachers come home vnto them and be appointed ouer them for to feede them I might alleadge examples of good men which sought after Christ whome he did not forbid Doe ye thinke when the Lorde commaundeth vs to seeke him so earnestlie and that in the mysterie of his Gospell that a few miles ought for to stop vs. Howe farre thinke yee men runne for a little earthly substaunce Howe far doe they run on heapes both men women vnto feasts maygames dauncings plaies bearebatings and other such vanities Ath. Youth will be doing ye must not blame them they haue time enough to bee holy hereafter I haue had as greate delight my self ere nowe in those things as one but nowe I waxe olde Zelot I was sure yee woulde allowe this kinde of running from towne to towne this is no disorder at all howe many are there of yee which crie out with open mouth against such as seeke after the woorde and seeke for to trouble punish them for so doing which once open your mouth against these foule abuses Whereas ye say youth will be doyng ye say true and so will many aged likewise but doth it followe therefore that they must be suffered to do the thinges which are euill In that yee say they haue time enough to bee holy hereafter therein you shewe yourselfe to be a right worldling a very epicure an ignorant man for thus your worldly Epicures doe speake youth will haue their race let them alone what shoulde young men and maidens doe with the scriptures cleane contrarie vnto that which God speaketh by his Prophete Wherewithall shall a young man clense his way euen by taking heede thereto according to thy woorde Likewise by Salomon in the booke of Ecclesiastes chap. 11. Remember thy creator in the dayes of thy youth But now a daies it is a principal point of diuinitie that youth may walke after the lustes of the fleshe so long vntill through custome of sinning they are so besotted and hardened in their wicked lusts their concupiscences are growen so strong that there can no grace enter into them so it seemeth for to be with you for I dare warrant you are able to tell a long tale of your youth trickes Ath. Well I am as I am you cannot make me better I trust ye shall make mee no woorse Ye speake as though none coulde be good but scripture men Zelot None can be good but such as feare God such as seeke for to obey him None feare God which set light by his ordinaunces and cast them behinde their backes None can obey GOD but suche as doe seeke for to knowe and followe those preceptes which hee vttereth in his woorde None are godlie but such as are clensed and guide their wayes by the woorde Hee whiche is of God heareth Gods worde Ath. If they be so good and godlie howe commeth it to passe then that there is so much debate among them for I knowe townes my selfe whiche are euen deuided one part against another since they had a preacher which were not so before This they gaine that whereas before they loued together nowe there is dissention sowne among them Zelot Nowe ye discharge your greatest ordinance I trowe yee haue nowe paide it home It is harde if Satan cannot with this engine ouerthrowe and beate downe Preaching But I pray you tell mee can yee put fire and water together but they will rumble Will yee haue light and darkenesse for to agree as companions together Ath. What is this to the matter Zelot Woulde yee haue God and the Diuell agree together woulde ye haue the godlie and the wicked for to bee at one this ye must do ye looke where the fault is to bee laide Ath. I thinke the fault must néedes bee layde vppon the preaching because they agréed before that came Zelot If their agreement together before had beene good then no doubt the preaching that should breake it could not be good for one good thing cannot destroye another But the former peace was not in GOD but in the fleshe neither was it so great as you would seeme for to set it foorth because that the worldlinges are alwayes at strife and one readie for to cut anothers throate but yet their hatred is so exceeding greate against the Gospell that in respect of the mind which they carrie towards the professors thereof they seeme among themselues to bee at peace and one to loue and make much of another Ath. Where is the fault then for to be layde Zelot Vpon the wicked which fret and rage against the word because it layeth open and discloseth their filthinesse and bewrayeth them For the light as S. Paule saith doth manifest all thinges They pretend other excuses as though they hated the professours
is and try whether yee can repent nowe it ye cannot what moueth yee to thinke that yee shalt be able then Ath. I hope I doe repent now and shal doe at the ende Zelot Repentance is a returning home vnto God from all euill vices and corrupte desires which are in the flesh and in the heart To be renued by repentaunce cannot be but where a man is renued in knowledge for that is one part of the image of GOD which must be restored in vs Reade in the 4. Chapter to the Ephe. from the 17. verse forwarde If a man continue in darkenesse he doth not repent He which committeth his foule sinns still although it bee but in the desire of his heart hath not repented He which doth not feele sorrowe and griefe and hath not a broken and contrite heart and a sorowfull spirite hath not repented hee which doth not eschue euill and doe good hath not repented All these are taught by the worde for that is it by whiche wee must clense our wayes and therefore yee may boldly say that he which learneth not out of Gods woorde to repent cannot repent for although if it were possible hee coulde repent for all other sinnes yet this one sinne to set light by the instruction of the Gospell will make still worse then they of Sodome as our Sauiour doth tell vs Math. 11. Ath. Will you condemne those whiche call for mercy at their ende whiche neuer repented before Zelot Wee may not pronounce vppon any one man because GOD onely seeth what is in man But yet wee may boldely goe so farre as the worde of God doeth leade vs and by it wee may see what GOD requireth and what God doeth condemne We may see that the common and generall repentaunce which all professe at their ende is not so muche as a shadowe of true repentaunce repentance cannot be in a man especially vppon a sodaine but he must needes feele a wonderfull chaunge in hym selfe he must needes bee able for to say I haue repented I knowe and feele that I am a newe man and therefore because I knowe most certainely that there is repentaunce in mee I knowe most certainely that I shall be saued for GOD promiseth saluation vnto euerye one whiche doeth repent In the common repentance men feele no such thing But are stil as they may be well enough in doubt of saluation Ath. Shall not all such as call vppon God be heard surely I dare not but thinke they shall Zelot I am sure because the Lorde doth speake it That whosoeuer doth call vppon him shall bee saued But yet yee must put this in that then they must pray in fayth as for the prayers of a wicked man which doth not repent and therefore hath not the true faith they are no prayers before GOD although hee crie lowde or call neuer so often for vnto such the Lorde speaketh in the first Chapter of the Prophete Isaiath When yee stretch forth your handes I will turne away mine eyes from yee Also if yee multiplie your prayer I will not heare Likewise the holy Ghost saieth by Solomon in the Prouerbes that the sacrifice of the wicked is an abhomination And in the same booke it is said He that turneth away his eare from hearing the lawe euen his prayer shall bee abhominable and therefore in the latter ende of the fourth Chapter of Ecclesiastes he aduiseth men when they come into the house of GOD to take heed to their fe●ete and to bee readier to heare then to offer the sacrifice of fooles For saith he they knowe not that they do euill Nowe ye shall finde many m●n ●rye in their miseries and make great confession of their vngodly life but yet without true repentaunce as it is manifest for so soone as the prosper againe yee shall see them returne to their olde by as if they had truely repented then shoulde it euer continue with them manie that liue in malice so soone as they be daungerously sicke will be readie to aske forgiuenesse and to forgiue all the worlde They knowe it booteth not to beare malice anie longer but so long as they be able to craulle out of their bedde and to stande vppon their legges yee shall see their olde withered malice as it seemed spring a fresh againe which is a strong proofe that they neuer truely repented howsoeuer they thought they did And euen so is it in all other sinnes they seeme vnto men for to repent they aske GOD forgiuenesse but yet the hearte abideth still the same that it was before God there is no chaunge in them before God they haue not put of the sinnefull bodie of the fleshe there is no chaunge in them before God howesoeuer they seeme to be chaunged before men This counterfet repentance maketh men bolde all their life to despise the holy worde of God which shoulde instruct and guide them it causeth them at their ende not to feare the wrath of God no● the vengeance to come because they thinke GOD is satisfied with this repentaunce and also because they knowe not their sinnes they suppose that they are but ouer the shoes when as they are drowned in the goulfe of vncleannesse ouer heade and ●ares Ath. God helpe vs if it bée thus how shall poore men doe then Zelot Men must applie them selues all their life to seeke for the knoweledge of GOD to increase in saith and repentaunce that when they come to their ende they may haue a testimonie of conscience that they haue feared God Likewise when yee come to a sicke man and aske howe hee doeth if he can but say as it pleaseth GOD yee aunswere that is enough neighbour holde yee there If he say I haue offended GOD and I praye GOD haue mercie vppon mee there needeth no more as you thinke Yee shoulde teache them the Lawe that they may see howe they haue offended God yee shoulde shewe them the fearefull curse and horrible ●●●●gea●●●● due vnto sinne that so they may 〈…〉 ken with remo●●e and sorrowe yee shoulde shewe them also the glad tidings of the Gospell and what Christe offereth vnto the penitent sinner yee shoulde teache them what holines GOD requireth at their hande howe they may come vnto it what promise they haue made vnto GOD of it in baptisme Yee shoulde instruct them in all the principall pointes of the fayth That so they may haue the renewing faith which shal iustifie and saue them Ath. What difference can you shewe betweene those whiche are taught as you woulde haue them and such as haue knowledge they can no more but repent call for mercie and beleeue And this doe they aswell as the other Zelot You thinke there is no difference but there is this difference that the one part doeth beleeue and repent in deede and the other but in woord as our Sauiour Christ Matth. 15. alleadgeth the saying of God by his Prophete This people drawe neere mee with their mouth and honour me with their lippes but