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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A45830	Infants-baptism disproved and believers baptism proved, or, An answer to several arguments propounded in a paper by Mr. Alexander Kellie, minister at Giles Criple Gate London, and sent to Mr. Jeremiah Ives of the said parish and is now published for the general information of all, but particularly for the satisfaction of many of the inhabitants of the said parish who have desired it, wherein the arguments for infant-baptism are examined and disproved by the said Jeremia Ives.	Ives, Jeremiah, fl. 1653-1674.	1655 (1655)	Wing I1100; ESTC R31669	39,332	78

so far ingage them in the Christian Religion that all the Philosophicall deceits of men should never be able to turn them from it And where is so much as one word to your purpose I must needs say That out of all the Texts you have prest I cannot see water enough to sprinkle upon the face of one Child And whereas you tell me Mr. Kellie I Might have saved you this labour and my selfe too if I had minded the Books of Dr. Featly Mr. Marshall Mr. Gerce Mr. Church Mr. Cobbet Mr. Baxter Mr. Cooke Mr. Blake Mr. Fuller Mr. Sidenham besides many other excellent men who have written in Latine as Hossius Calvin Beza Bullinger and all the best lights in the Christian world full and clear against me Mr. Ive's TO this I Answer That you might have saved me a lobour if you had found out of all your Observations of these men but one plain Command or example for infants baptism and given it me at your house or sent it in your Paper which makes me think that either these men have said as little to the purpose as you or else that you have minded them but a little because you otherwise would have said more to the purpose then I doe perceive you have done But 2 I have not lived without some observations of if not all yet many of these mens works for I have not as yet taken up any Opinion wherein I differ from you or others but I have seriously weighed it in the ballance of the Sanctuary And I have not declined the way of these men you name nor any other but when I have upon serious examination found that they have declined the footsteps of the Primitive Purity either in Doctrine or Discipline And whereas you talk of learned men and fathers and best Lights in the Christian world that they are all against me I tell you that if God and his word be for me I care not who is against me And I tell you further that I had rather have one Testimony from the word of God for my practice then ten thousand of these Authors without it I Shall therefore shew you 1 Plain Scripture Proof for believers baptism 2 Plain Example for it 3 Plain Command and Example for the manner of the Administration of it 4 And lastly That the footsteps hereof since you talk of learned and godly men was not wholly defaced in the three first Centuries after the Apostles nor then neither Nay a man may make a shift to know this was the practice by those relicks of it that remained in the Church of England till the memory of man That Christ our Lord Commands this who we must hear in all things or else we shall be destroyed appears first from Mat. 28.19 Teach all Nations baptizing them c. Which most of your own Authors doe acknowledge * See Mr. Baxter in his plain Scripture proof for Infants baptism p. 15. as I have shewed should be read Make Disciples baptizing THEM and not the Nations as you would somtimes have it Though at your house you granted the Text ought to be so Translated as I have now rendred it therefore you proceeded from hence to prove infants Disciples which you could not have done but by granting what I have said The next Text is Mark 16.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved c. Acts 10 48. And he Viz. the Apostle commanded them to be baptized with water who were converted by his Preaching in the name of the Lord Jesus Mark 1.4 John did Preach the baptism of repentance which could not be infants baptism Acts 2.38 Peter said Repent and be baptized every one of you Acts 22.16 Arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins Secondly We have plenty of Example of this in the Scripture Rom. 6.4 We Viz. believing Romans are buried with him in baptism Mat. 3.6 They were all baptized of John in Jordan confessing their sins Mark 1.9 Jesus was baptized of John in Jordan Mat. 3.15 Acts 2.41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized c. Acts 8.12 When they did believe Philips preaching the things concerning the Kingdome of God they were baptized both men and women Acts 8.38 when the Eunuch profest faith Vers 37. 't is said Vers 38. that Phillip baptized him Acts 9.18 Saul when he was converted the Text saith He arose and was baptized The Jaylor Acts 16.33 when he and his house believed the Text sayes He and all his were baptized Acts 18.8 And Crispus the chief Buler of the Synagogue believed on the Lord with all his house And many of the Corinthians hearing believed and were baptized Acts 19.5 When they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Thirdly Command and Example in plain words for the manner of it which was by dipping the person all over in the water and not by sprinkling water upon the face as the manner of the Nation is This appears by the Command Make Disciples for so it must be read of all Nations dipping them into the name of the Father Son and Spirit for that is the English signification of the word And I desire you to shew me where baptizo signifies aspersio in all the Bible And the like Command you have Mark 16.16 But that you may know that dipping and not sprinkling was the Command of Christ and the Practice of the Primitive times however it is now laughed at appears by the Practice of Christ himself Mat. 16.3 Jesus when he was baptized went UP OUT of the water c. Mark 1.5 They were all baptized of him in the River Jordan c. John 2.23 John was baptized in Aenon near to Salim because there was Much water there and They Came and were baptized Acts 8.38 39. 't is said Vers 38. that They viz. Philip and the Eunuch went both downe into the water And when Philip had baptized him it is said Vers 39. That they came out of the water I shall appeale to all unbiassed men whether baptizing men and women in Rivers upon their professing faith in Christ doth not better accord with these Scriptures then sprinkling water upon the face of infants Besides Fourthly This was the Practice of the Church long after the Apostles as appears first by what Socrates Scholasticus in his Ecclesiasticall History reports of Constantine the Great That though he was the Son of Hellena a zealous Professor of Christ lib. 1. cap. 13. yet he was not baptized till he was 65 years old which was after he had left Constantinople and Helenopolis and came to Nicomedia where dwelling in a Mannor without the Town-walls he was baptized into the faith of Christ in which baptism he greatly rejoyced lib. 1. cap. 26. Again the same Author saith That in Alexandria the Holy Sciptures were read and interpreted by the UNBAPTIZED which he cals Cathecumenists aswell as by them that were baptized which saith he was contrary to the Custome of

other Countries and Churches who did not suffer any to doe so till they were baptized Socrates lib. 5. cap. 2● Which plainly shewes that infants baptism was not a tradition of the Apostles for if it had this Church of Alexandria that had for the space of some hundred years been converted to the faith of Christ would by this time if all believers had baptized their infants as the Church of England and others doe now adayes one Generation after another have been without any that were able to read and interpret the Scriptures before baptism as we see the Nation of Engl now is a few Anabaptists Children so called excepted otherwise where are your Oathecumenists that are able to read understand the holy Script before you baptize them And that they in those times did follow the way of Christ in baptizing and not your Bason way appears for the same Socrates lib. 7. cap. 4. speaks of a Jew which was baptized by Soticus Bishop of Constantinople who saith he as soon as he was TAKEN OUT OF THE WATER his Palsie left him Can it be said so of any that you baptize that they are taken out of the water The same Author further saith lib. 7. cap. 17. of a Jew that was to be baptized upon his profession of faith by Paulus the Novatian Bishop that all things were provided for his baptism among which he saith The Bishop did provide him a linnen Garment which was to no purpose if he had not been to dip the person in water And Bellarmiue himself acknowledges that in old time they had women in the Church whom they called to the Office of Deaconnesses to attend upon the women that were baptized with baptizing cloaths And Jerome Translating the Lamentation of Origen saith That Origen lamented and bewailed the Vow that HE MADE WHEN HE WAS BAPTIZED in that he had now by sin walked contrary to it However Origen is himself thought to favour this practice afterwards yet those things are but the supposed works of Origen and it 's hard to say whether it was his or no. Again Eusebius who writ the Ecclesiasticall History of the first 300 years after Christ though he tells us of all the most observable passages of those times yet he doth not so much as mention the baptizing of one infant but doth often times mention things in favour to the baptizing of men upon profession of faith as appears lib. 7. cap. 8. of his Ecclesiasticall story where he relates of a man that heard the Questions that was by the Minister asked of persons to be baptized and THEIR ANSWERS TO THEM fell down and wept at the Ministers feet because the baptism that he had received of the Hereticks was not like the baptism THAT WAS IN USE THEN which plainly sheweth That at this time the Churches did not receive men to baptism but upon profession of faith and also that it was no Apostolicall Custome to baptize infants Further Beza himself upon Acts 17.3 saith That they professed in baptism the doctrine propounded by John And besides this how often have Mr. Tombs and Mr. Den and others produced sufficient proof that this practice of baptizing infants was not so much the Custome of the Primitive times as you imagine That memorable instance of Gregory Nazianzen whose father was a Bishop and his mother a vertuous woman yet himselfe was not baptized till he came from Athens where as Socrates saith lib. 4. cap. 21. he had spent much of his time in the study of Rhetorick Again That other instance of Mr. Tombes out of Hugo Grotius in his Annotations upon Mat. 19.14 That even Chrysostome though born of Christian parents was not baptized till he was 21 years of age The same Grotius adds That the Canon of the Synod of Neosesarea held in the year 315 determined that a woman with Child might be baptized because baptism did not reach the fruit of her womb because in the confession made in baptism EVERY ONES FREE CHOICE IS SHEWED He adds further That many of the Greeks to his time did defer the baptizing little ones till they could themselves make a confession of their faith Again Was not the Image of this Custome to be seen in the practice of the Church of England when they asked What was required of persons TO BE BAPTIZED and the answer was Repentance whereby they forsake sin and Faith whereby they believe the Promises of God Which afterwards by changing the Command of God into a Tradition of their owne they did use to ask the God-fathers and God-mothers a conceit that was never heard of till the Churches had apostatized from their Primitive Purity And as for the manner of baptizing by dipping the Person in the water however it is now laught at you see it was not onely that which as I have said Christ and his Apostles Commanded and Practiced but it was used in the Church for a long time after the Church of England did look upon it as a more commendable way in as much as they in their service-Service-Book did place dipping before sprinkling and therefore they said the persons DIPPED or sprinkled c. Now may I not better say That if you had looked over the Command of Christ and the Practice of the Apostle and traced the foot-steps of the Primitive Practice in this Point for 300 years after you might have saved me a labour and your self too then you could say I might have saved you a labour if I had looked over the writings of a few men that you have named who have not in all their Books cited either a Command or Example for infants sprinkling but onely some far-fetched non-sequitors which most of your Paper is filled withall I shall now conclude leaving what I have said in Answer to your Arguments for your Practice and the plain Scripture I have urged for my own Practice to your judgement and the judgement of all to whom this shall come and desire that like the Bereans you and all others that shall peruse this would search whether what I have said in the premisses be of God or no and if in your Conscience you or any else doe so fied it to be take heed then what you do in opposing of it least you be found sighters against God And what hath fallen from my pen that is not according to Gods word I shall desire that you or any else would shew it me either in word or writing and it shall thankfully be received as a favour by SIR Your Friend to Serve you JER IVES FINIS