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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A35564	To J.S., the author of Sure-footing, his letter, lately published, The answer of Mer. Casaubon, D.D., concerning the new way of infallibility lately devised to uphold the Roman cause, the Holy Scriptures, antient fathers and councills laid aside	Casaubon, Meric, 1599-1671.	1665 (1665)	Wing C811; ESTC R3910	21,053	27

IMPRIMATUR May 29 1665. John Hall R. P. D. Epis Lond. á Sac. Domest To J. S. the Author of Sure-Footing his Letter lately Published THE ANSWER OF MER. CASAUBON D. D. Concerning The New way of INFALLIBILITY lately devised to uphold the Roman Cause The Holy Scriptures Antient Fathers and Councills laid aside LONDON Printed for Timothy Garthwait at the Kings-head in St. Pauls Church-yard 1665. SIR I Have by the help of a Friend lately received your Letter to me which you have published with some other pieces of yours Had I apprehended any difficulty in the business I could have found an excuse from my present indisposition of body which hath been upon me this long time But I think I shall not need much Study to answer you this Letter I mean I will not insist upon personal things which do not at all concern the cause it self no further than civility doth oblige me First you challenge me so I understand you of somekind of breach of friendship A great crime I shall acknowledge it if truly guilty But the truth is Now that you have put me in mind by those circumstances you mention I remember well when Bp. Morton of Reverend and Blessed memory lived in Durham-house which was at the beginning of the late Troubles there was a civil Gentleman in the House whether in the quality of Chaplain or Secretary I do not remember with whom I did walk some time but what our communication was about Religion or any thing else I can give no account It should seem by your Letter you are the Gentleman But whether this may be called Acquaintance or Friendship I know not For since that time so many years ago I never heard of you that I remember neither did I think my self by any Law of friendship such as this obliged to inquire If your memory of me and my name hath been more tenacious I wish you much good of it I have often grieved that mine is no better If it were your kindness to think of me when I did not of you I am beholding to you for it But how I should know 20 years after that S. W. the Author of SCHISM DISPATCHT now turned into I. S. in Sure Footing c. which I prosess I do not understand was the party whom I had seen in Durham-house especially after so much trouble of body and mind which those times did occasion I will leave it to your further consideration I protest to you seriously that neither by any information I have had from any body else nor by any suspition of mine I never had the least thought of any such thing Before I enter into the cause I will make an end of this business of our acquaintance You charge me at the end of your Letter that I was accessory to your change Truly Sir because I acknowledge we did talke together but can give no account of particulars in any thing that I think as my mind and my apprehension of things then was which I remember very well could possibly proceed from me so far I may and will in civility believe you But to believe that I said any thing to you wittingly and willingly which I knew to be false and fictitious contrary to my sense and judgement and this too to no end at all that is without any provocation or inducement but to do my self hunt when for ought I knew what I said to you might probably come to the knowledge of that Reverend Prelate a zealous Protestant and who entirely loved me you must pardon me Sir if I believe you not in this but absolutely deny it and offer my self to take my oath to the contrary But because I am not willing to believe that you willfully devise but rather that your memory hath deceived you I will see what I can do to help you First then you say I told you They were mad who read the antient Fathers and saw not that they meant Christ was as really in the Sacrament as in Heaven I remember it was once by a Jesuite laid to my Fathers charge publikely that he should write somewhere in the margin of a book written by a learned Protestant where he treateth of the Eucharist Omittamus Patres nam corum authoritate velle uti ad nostram sententiam confirmandam est exquisitissimo genere insanioe insanire Though the words might be justified being written hastily too if by nostram sententiam we understand them who make a meer figure of the Sacrament Yet I shall not need to fly to that in case it be granted these words were written by my Father For there was a time and I have acknowledged it in a book dedicated to King James that learned and religious King above 40 years ago when my Father who then followed other studies was very much set upon by Cardinal Perron in matters of Religion neither could he avoid it because it was by order from the King What opinion you or any others now have of the Cardinal I know not but he was then generally accounted the greatest Wit and most Eloquent man of his time And I can shew how at that time my Father did write many things from his mouth so expresly acknowledged by him for his remembrance which afterwards upon further perusal and consideration himself in the same paper condemned and consuted I have at this time by me a very considerable Collection of such Notes and had them when I answered the Jesuite No wonder then if he had written such words at that time who afterwards at more leisure took infinite pains to satisfie himself about that matter having examined all the Testimonies of Antient Fathers and Records of all Ages of that Argument with great accuracy which Work of his had been published soon after his Exercitations if he had lived No wonder then I say However I had no reason to believe it then upon his report whom the Jesuite I mean before spoken of in other things I had found very bold and partial to say no more But afterwards it was my luck in the King now Charles the Second our Gracious Lord and Soveraign his Library at St. James's where for ought I know it is still to light upon the book and I do acknowledge I found the words there Now the thing being in a manner publick already though not perchance so publickly known it is possible I might say somewhat of it to you the word mad makes me think I did who probably being before resolved were willing upon very little ground as I conceive to make some advantage of it And how much less I pray as to the matter of the Eucharist doth Calvin himself say in that passage by me produced in the book you mention Substantiam vcri corports sanguinis Jesu Christi utì ex utero Virginis illam semel accepit Proesentem esse in cana tam sidelibus quàm infidelibus which passage is out of his Epistles But many other to the same purpose may

be collected out of his other works as that Idem Corpus quod passum est pro nobis and Substantia Christi manentis in coelig lo arcanâ vi nobis communicatur and the like So that you have no reason to except against Calvins interpretation of the reality except you deny God that power for Calvin makes it a great Miracle to exhibit the body and blood of Christ truly and really and yet spiritually which I think is not more incredible than a corporeal presence and yet invisible Sure I am and can shew it under his hand in more then one place my Father was well pleased with Calvins Doctrine in this point Judge you therefore how likely it is I should tell you your second objection that either Father or Grand-father did hear Calvin say He would willingly cut off one of his fingers on condition he had never written what he had written concerning that Sacrament or that kind of Reality But what say you if I can help you in this also I am very confident I can For this I can shew you or any body else written with my Father 's own hand that a Person of Credit and Integrity as he believed and one that had been very intimate with Mr. Calvin had heard him say Dolere sibi vehementissimè quod usus exhibendoelig Eucharistioelig morientibus esset sublatus Et affirmabat idem semel audivisse Calvinum orto super eâre sermone dicentem Optare se ut sibi unus è manu digitus esset proelig cisus et ille usus esset restitutus sed se reverentiâ earum Ecclesiarum quoelig usum bunc damnant impedirl quò minus de eo restitaendo cogitaret Here you see Calvin doth profess his grief wishes one of the fingers of his hand cut off on a condition gives a reason why he cannot help it All this you have Your mistake is about the Subject you say reality which was according to the true Relation the denying of the Sacrament to dying persons Sir you see how willing I am to save you from suspition of wilful falshood For otherwise I might have thought it enough absolutely to deny what you lay to my charge I might have done it with a good Conscience and I think my negative with impartial judges would have carried as much shew of probability as your affirmative The matter of friendship and private talk answered your next charge is that I have shewed my self an absolute stranger to Science and withal very uncivilly injurious without any need or provocation First an absolute stranger to Science if I mistake you not because I slight so much your way of infallibility in matters of faith which you so much extoll as grounded upon self-evidence upon principles of reason and nature so demonstrable that nothing in the world can be more Then secondly injuriously uncivill in what First in the harshness of the terms whereby I express my Judgment and secondly in wrongfully or standerously imposing upon you things or words which you never wrote you say Now sir will you please laying aside all passion as I shall endeavour in this answer to hear what I have to say my self and it may be you will be of another Judgement I will not tye my self to your order but as neer as I can I will not leave any part of your charge unanswered First then I say Your book Schism Dispatcht came to my hands from a learned Gentleman who desired me to look upon it at leisure intimating that it was much cryed up by some men of your side He was pleased to give it me and tied me to no time At last the time came I was at leisure You may believe me as you please I shall onely desire if you think it reasonable that you will not judge till you have read all I have naturally a great antipathy to Fanaticks and Fanatick opinions I look upon them as the great enemies of mankind that is of true religion and civil government You know what this Kingdome hath lately suffered by them and how neer it came to utter destruction When I had read your opinion of Orall Tradition a thing as you explain it I had never met with nor heard of before upon which you would have us to ground our faith and without which you acknowledge no right Christianity I profess I took you for either a right fanatick or one who cunningly did endeavour to undermine all religion But of the two rather I thought a fanatick Whether I had any just ground for such an opinion or suspicion rather I shall by and by further satisfie you in the mean time think of me as you please I could not but think the worse of you too for handling that pious worthy man against whom you write so unhandsomely An ingenuous man would love worth and a good Christian piety even in an enemy I know you give him some good words in your first Chapter but in your Preface in you book generally and at the end of your book where you pretend to reckon his faults truly Sir though confidence I know and high language goes a great way with them that cannot judge and might be proper enough to your end such scorn such petulancy did not become you These two considerations without any particular grudge or provocation made me I confess somewhat beyond my ordinary straine or genius to express my self in delivering my judgement I should now in the next place give you some reasons for my Judgment But I will first see how I can acquit my self from imposing upon you and mis-relating your words Before I wrote what I have written where you are mentioned I had read in part for it is a great book you know Dr. Hammond his answer intituled The Dispatcher Dispatched I supposed he had read you more at leisure indeed I never did but here and there by parcels than I had done Besides I found some others to whom you referr us and from whom you profess to have learned mentioned by him and their words often quoted and compared with yours I had them not never saw them much less read them That he would or could mistake or misrelate you or them so candid and judicious a man as he was I had not the least suspicion This made me less heedfull whether I used your own words precisely and in your own order or method so as I set down nothing but what was your sense and meaning clearly to be gathered from your own words Sure I am I intended it no otherwise and I am yet very confident if I have laid no more to your charge then Dr. Hammond hath done to you and to those others which concurr with you in the same opinion I have done you no wrong For as I take it the question is not Whether you protest against your absurdities sometimes and seem to disclaim them in words which is ordinary enough to writors especially when they have an uncouth opinion or assertion

hath been observed by which they endeavour to this day to just fie their infidelity I cannot say it is the way of the Mahametans as yet they have somewhat else to plead for themselves Success and Multitude But this I can say whenever it shall please the Mahumetans to make use of this way who now can plead above a thousand years Oral Tradition you leave us no way how to deal with them how to confute them And have not you well deserved of Christianity But again do not we see that a great part of the Christian world the greater part I may say if you allow them not Christians who are not under the Pope where once Christianity flourished hath already failed notwithstanding Tradition Those flourishing Churches of Asia of Africa those Apostolical Sees where are they What security have you from principles of Nature which you onely allow of that the same may not befall these Churches also supernatural pleas of Divine Promise or Providence being laid aside as you would have them Sir be not offended I pray with my plain dealing I have no desire to anger you What I thought of your Opinion before I have told you But since the reading of your Sure footing what I did but suspect before seems now to me very apparent and visible First I consider your language such as this for example Seeing by this time that my Discourse by stooping from my first principles while I applied them to my business seem'd immerst in matter and by the blunder of many more and more particular Terms then were in the meer Principle forcibly taken in began to look with a contingent Face though indeed I still perch'd upon the specifical nature of things and so never flagg'd below the sphere of science therefore c. Then secondly your Confidence as though if your opinion should not prove true the whole course of Nature were in danger to be turned back and the Elements to return to their original Chaos for to this purpose you often express your self And then I fear not the gates of Hell for which you choose rather to trust to the strength of your own wit than to Christs Promise and Hence I set TRADITION on her Throne and the like Thirdly and lastly your Science certain sense self-evidence intrinsecal mediums connexion of causes demonstration principles of Nature and the like which you inculcate in every page as though science and demonstration were meat and drink and sleep to you and you lived by nothing else Whereas let me be accounted mad I am willing if it be not true all that you ground upon your principles as you apply them your reasons your consequences are so ridiculous and childish and senseless that a man may with as much probability undertake to reduce all Story all Truth all Religion to Esops Fables as to reconcile your Doctrine to Sense and Reason Believe me Sir these be shrewd Arguments of a distemper which is not ordinary I could tell you of pregnant instances but I doubt you would not thank me But above all things Mr. White whose Scholar you have acknowledged your self Dr. Hammond doth tell me in this new Device let his case awaken you and make you if it be not too late sensible of yours It cannot be unknown to you I believe but because this Answer as your Letter may come to the hands of others who know it not give me leave to set it down here This good man then a rational man otherwise it cannot be denied what he hath written against Apparitions and false Miracles not to speak of his other Works which I have not seen shew him to be so being it seems highly conceited of his parts and performancess fell into a conceit That God himself by immediate inspiration had inspired him in all he had written of Religion especially and moreover that God to the end all men should know and believe he was indeed inspired and by what they now saw might judge of his other Works by him published had wrought a great miracle upon himself visible and apparent able to satisfie any rational man I say miracle Yet true it is and I must take notice of it lest I hear of it afterwards as a Calumniator that Mr. White where he doth begin his story to prevent somewhat which he cunningly foresaw might be objected doth say somewhat to decline the presumption of a miracle as not so proper in this business but how agreeably to the rest of his tale and to his conclusion Quod superest tibi consule ostentum à coelo ad te delapsum ne contemnito let the indifferent Reader judge Now the miracle or ostentum which you will as himself relates it is That whereas neither by Books nor by Masters he never had applied himself to the study of Geometry so as to think himself or to be accounted by others a man of skill in the Art of Science God on a sudden had made him a perfect Mathematician so perfect a Mathematician that he took upon him to resolve greatest doubts in that Art which had posed the wits of greatest Mathematicians in all Ages as particularly the Quadratura Circuli With what success I will not take upon me to judge but one of his own profession in point of Religion hath told him and others in an Answer titled Querela Geometrie who pag. 40 41. doth conclude in these words That whereas Mr. White aimed to be accounted a person whom Almighty God particularly designed to use as his instrument for the governing of his Church in this present conjuncture and to this effect to have received great light and infused knowledge from him as we heard him speak in his Preface he hath now given such a Character of himself that it is impossible any man should be so simple c. Who also for the Readers further satisfaction hath reprinted Mr. Whites whole Preface to his Book titled Tutela Geometrica both in Latin at it was written and in English translated by himself where the Reader if he please may find such expressions of deepest Enthusiasm or Infatuation as can scarce be parallelled out of any Book now extant and written by a Christian that I can at this present call to mind Of any Book I mean written and published by the Author or Enthusiast himself For otherwise stories of Enthusiasts their high language great brags and confidence yea actions and deportment suitable to their words even unto death we have good store Whether Mr. White since that become to himself again as to this particular I mean For a man may be out of reason out of his witts I will not say in some one particular through much intention who yet in other things may be very sober and rational it is a known case among Physicians or indeed whether alive or dead I know not you do I suppose Me thinks this example should be a warning to you to make you sensible of your case more then those great

I know not But all this granted yet it is but little that you grant to Popes and Prelates For you say they are a part and the eminentest members that is somewhat but you add and indeed could not avoid it by your grounds pag. 333. in proportion to their number and what is that among so many millions of other men The fifth Injury I charge your way or Doctrine with many Chymerical suppositions and impertinencies I have said enough to this which I shall not need to repeat I shall onely add I understand by you some body is appointed to answer you You know what Dr. Hammond hath done already whom I think you never answered But by your Sure footing first and second part I perceive you or rather indeed your disease or delusion hath made a great progress If therefore it should so fall out that you have been mis-informed and your dreams are not thought so considerable as to deserve an answer pray for my life and health for it may do you good and I look upon you still as an ingenuous man however this hath happened to you and I will promise you very mathematically and scientifically as great an enemy as you take me to science to examine all your grounds and to make it appear clearly to your self if possible but to all men that have but eyes and ears to use your own expression that nothing can be more contrary to the course of Nature and to Reason and Providence grounded upon certain and approved experience of all Ages than what you ground upon What you may think of it I know not but I do not conceive that there is any thing of bragging in this undertaking else it would not become me and I should be sorry for it In that which followeth by Ours and Yours I know not what you mean whether Poepists and Protestants in general or whether you and me particularly but I think and it is more probable Papists and Protestants in general However it is apparent you do brag and vapour egregiously as if you intended to put your adversaries out of countenance by calling them cowardly rogues and by telling them what brave things you have done when in very deed it is but a dream and pure imagination Put this is as all the rest Tradition on its Throne and the gates of Hell c. it is no good sign But I have said or indeed suspected I say no more but I will not stand upon that you are no friend to ancient books or learning Truly Sir I think a man may gather so much by your own words and profession What mean you else when you so often tell us of wordish learning aicry descants and discourses knacks of humane learning Grammar and Criticisms bookishness and much reading and the like But if it be granted all this may come from a man that is a lover of true learning but impatient to see how much it is wronged by many false pretenders which is true enough yet if Fathers and Mothers of Families who I think generally do not pretend to much learning are able and sufffcient nay the onely sure means appointed by God to preserve truth in matters of Faith and Religion what further use have we of all books ancient and late that have been written on that subject You know Sir that ancient Fathers and Councils and other Ecclesiastical Writers their Translations and what hath been written upon them by sundry learned men will make a great part of that which we Divines at least call Learning that such Books in greatest Libraries take up most part of the room It is not enough to say a man may read them for his recreation if he will and we are not bound to burn them You need to say no more but that there is no need of them what will follow should you be believed generally by men in Authority any man may foresee without the gift of Prophesie in this age especially so much addicted to new knacks and inventions so fiercely set to disgrace and cry down whatsoever former ages have most esteemed and reverenced Your division of Books into several Classes and sentiment of them so divided I have no mind to quarrel at or examine because it is not much to the purpose or main business That many deserve no better then to be burned even of them that fill Catalogues and Libraries I should easily yield so it were done by them that could judge of Books indeed not by self-conceited men or by men addicted to one kind of study who are apt to think all needless that comes not within the verge of their cognisance or capacity But I do not like your counsel of abridging for that hath been the destruction of best Authors in all Ages and hath brought many a curse upon the Abbreviators Among them that deserve to be burned it would not much trouble me if Dr. Dee's tedious Legend about his Spirits were one And because you tell me of him I am very willing to take this occasion to acquaint others in case this paper be ever printed how I came to have to do with him I know I have said enough elsewhere but because many have heard of the Book by relation who never saw it and because somewhat is come to my knowledge since which I did not know then I hope it will not do amiss here When I lived at Sir John Cottons where besides the comfort and honour of that truly noble and learned Gentlemans company I had the use of a choise Library as any England for the number doth afford in his Father Sir Thomas then living his house at Westminster I had not been there many months but Sir Thomas did mention these papers of Dr. Dees unto me adding that my Lord of Armagh had seen them and wished them printed not for their worth or exellency but because he found in them so much of the humor and language of the times as that he thought many would be convinced by the book from whence either Canting language and affected Sanctitie did spring When I had perused them my answer was I was very fully satisfied of the reality of those things w ch the book related that I knew Dr. Dees hand very well I did know it because I had divers books which had been his among others a Simleri Bibliotheca where Dr. Dee had written in the margines the names of divers Manuscript books in England Greek and others w ch he had seen in several places I know not how I came to part with it as I did with many others for which I have been very sorry since and was sure it was his hand and made no question but the Devil or deluding spirits whom he thought to be good had appeared to him in that manner as is there related But for the printing I doubted scarce any man would adventure upon it because it was such mad uncouth stuffe for the most part So the business rested halfe a year more