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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A33973	A reasonable account why some pious, nonconforming ministers in England judge it sinful for them to perform their ministerial acts, in publick, solemn prayer by the prescribed forms of others wherein several of their arguments are modestly propounded, opended and justified against pretended answers given to them, either by Ireneus Freeman, or Mr. Falconer, in his book entituled Liberitas ecclesiastica, or others : the strength also of the several arguments brought by them, for the lawfulness of forms to be used universally by ministers, in their publick ministrations, is fairly tried.	Collinges, John, 1623-1690.; Freeman, Ireneus.; Falkner, William, d. 1682. Libertas ecclesiastica.	1679 (1679)	Wing C5330; ESTC R14423	97,441	180

But then saith a Reverend person for a child or scholar to use a form which is prescribed by his Father or Master would be unlawful Let us turn it into a form What is not unlawful for a child or scholar we will add to advantage the argument or save our selves labour of more words or a private person that hath not attained to the gift of prayer or such whom the church is enforced to use in publick ministrations for want of persons better qualified to do in prayer That is not unlawful for ministers to do ordinarily to whom God hath given the gift But to pray by the prescribed forms of others ordinarily in private or publick is not unlawful for children or grown persons or such ministers Ergo. The Assumption is granted but the Proposition is unquestionably false sincerity is accepted not according to what a man hath not but according to what he hath We do believe many an honest hearted minister in the beginning of reformation who never preached nor yet was able to do it was accepted of God in reading good Homilies But we do not think That any who were able to preach otherwise was also accepted We trust He that hath ten talents must improve them all though it had been enough for him that had but one if he had not laid it up in a napkin but improved that for his masters glory and advantage This Argument therefore onely proveth That forms of prayer are not in themselves unlawful to be used not that they may not be so to some persons whose circumstances vary Our question is onely about Ministers to whom God hath given the gift or who onely want it through their own default or negligence § 8 But Sixthly A great Doctor and that in a publick Sermon as well as diverse others in their printed discourses tell us That there is a command for Prescribed forms of prayer to be used in the church under the gospel 1 Tim. 2. 1 2. 1 Cor. 10. 13. A text urged weakly enough by the author of the book called Pulpit conceptions Popular deceptions and Mr. Falconer p. 109. tells us That many have thought that the Apostle had a special eye to the composure of such forms of prayer agreable to what the Baptist and our Saviour prescribed to their disciples in commanding Timothy the Governour of the church That amongst the things which concerned his behaviour in the church of God Ch. 3. 15. First of all prayers intercessions supplications and giving of thanks should be made for all men c. For this he quotes Dr. Hammond in loc And addeth Though the phrase 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may either signify That prayers be put up to God or that they be composed in this place it may well intend both c. It is enough for us that our Reverend Brother justly alloweth That 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Prayers be made doth not necessarily signify That church Governours should make Liturgies for all Ministers from whence it followeth That this text will afford no cogent argument for such an institution Nor will any other text give relief in the cause coming in as an auxiliary to this It is indeed a plain command for Timothy in his publick ministry himself to pray and to enjoin all inferiour ministers to do the like but we have produced other and those plainer texts enough directing ministers how to perform their ministerial acts by ministring their gift according to the grace given Stiring up not neglecting their gift c. And because our reverend Brother is a little critical with the verb 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 we shall onely tell him that he knows that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 a Poet comes from it and we know him so much a scholar as he would judge him but a miserable poet That should onely read or recite copies of verses composed by others If indeed prayers intercessions supplications giving of thanks could not be made for all men unless superiors prescribed or ministers used the prescribed forms of others there were something in this text But it is an observable vanity that when men are possessed of some singular notion hard to be made out they fancy every verse almost in Scripture to be for their purpose The Doctor saw the word Prayers here and he fancieth it must be a Liturgy or prayer-Prayer-book Just like another who meeting in the epistle of Peter with a phrase of Offering up Spiritual Sacrifices to God runs away with as much confidence of a new 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 for a Liturgy though there be not a word for it near the text Yea and in his heat runs down the Puritans arguments in his way like durt But with this discretion That though it is like he saw some better forces of theirs standing by then any which he tried his skill upon yet he thought fit rather to pursue the chase of the left wing of Pigmies then to stand to hazard a battel with some other men of war that faced him all the while § 9 The Author of the Pulpit conceptions hath he thinks found out some other express Scripture 1 Cor. 1. 10. That you all speak the same thing Rom. 15. 6. That you may with one mind and one mouth glorify God And he is hugely confident That the first mentioned text is not to be forced into a contrary interpretation Ridiculous Is there in that text a word concerning Prayer Is that the Theme the Apostle is there treating of Were the Divisions for a Remedy as to which he gives this advice about Prayer It not the Apostle both to the Corinthians and Romans giving Catholick directions And will not then this Argument prove that not onely Liturgies But the same Liturgies verbatim must be used in all churches to the end of the world But let us turn this into an argument That the Doctor may see we will deny him no just advantage which his learning may have upon us more then we are aware of Those who are to speak the same thing and are with one mouth to glorify God may lawfully or must use set forms of Prayer But Christians are to speak the same thing and with one mouth to glorify God Ergo. The Major is to be proved and when he hath proved it let him consider whether the same argument will not prove That in all families and closets also the same form must not be used And whether such another learned Topick will not prove That all ministers must use the same syllables words and sentences in preaching Yea and in all their more private religious discourses Certainly sober persons ever thought that by these expressions the Apostle intended onely an unity in the matter and substance of Religion not in words and syllables expressing their conceptions about it either to God or men But to do the D r. right he lays his Argument from these texts in a little different form we will not conceil it from our Readers Valeat quantum

very Argument the Popish Abby-lubbers Monks and Priests used to persuade the Pope to appropriate to Covents Abbies the tythes belonging to many Parishes and the Racovian Catechism de Eccles c. 11. hath it plain enough Postquam igitur Doctrina Christi secundum consilium Dei patefacta confirmata fuit abundè iis personis quae eam patifecerent confirmarent nihil amplius loci in Ecclesiâ relictum And the Arminians agree much with them Episcopius Disput 28. determineth preaching profitable but not necessary But blessed be God the number of these men in England is not great all men almost acknowledging Preaching a great Ordinance of Christ an ordinance not onely to make men Christians in name and outwardly but Christians inwardly and indeed changing their hearts and turning them from all sin and lust to serve the living God It was the unhappiness of England to have three or four Prelates of great power who thus depretiated the greatest ordinance of the gospel But as they are gone and ere this know whether they in this thing did well or ill so there are not many that approve their sayings or will rise up to call them blessed We therefore take it for granted that Preaching may not be suppressed and are little affected with a Critial Authors witin distinguishing betwixt Preaching and Teaching and essays to prove it is not the ministers duty to Preach but to Teach In short we think that Critick had need himself be taught before he either preacheth or teacheth § 2 Our onely question is Whether it be in the power of man to suppress the gift of preaching in a minister of the gospel We think it is not because of the frequent commands in Scripture to ministers To stir up and not to neglect that gift and to minister it 1 Tim. 4. 14. 2 Tim. 1. 6. 1 Pet. 4. 10 11 c. And to us nothing can be more absurd then to fancy That God should have given abilities and gifts to men for so great a work as the work of the ministry and given them an heart to desire the imployment and the church should have approved of them as furnished by God for his work and sent into it and after this it should be in the power of men to suppress the use of these gifts and appoint them in stead of it to readsome discourses of others to the people § 3 The onely doubt then can be about the Minor Proposition which stands upon this foundation That God hath given unto man no farther liberty to stifle and suppress one ministerial gift then another Nor can any sufficient reason be given of their farther authority in the one case then the other and therefore our wise Reformers seing a necessity to make a provision for that most sad state which our and other Reforming-churches were in in the beginning of Reformation at the same time provided ministers both a book of Homilies and a book of Publick prayers and Homilies at first just proportioned to the Number of sermons they willed to be preached every year That was 12 on each month Well knowing That if they had Authority to do the one they had Authority to do the other And those who had need of the one had an Equal need if not greater of the other The Doctor Respondent therefore within these few years at a Commencement having given the lawfulness of Imposing and using forms of prayer for his Question and being pressed by one of our Learned Prelates with this Argument That then it was lawful to impose and use forms of sermons too Like a wise man granted the Consequence and denied the Assumption And his hearers thought he answered well to avoid a publick baffle though he affirmed a falshood by denying the Minor we are sure some of us did judging the Consequence by no means to be destroyed by the Art of man § 3 Every considerate person will easily understand That if it be lawful for man to compose all forms of prayer and forms of sermons to be used by ministers and they may discharge their ministerial office by reading them both We shall neither need Grammar-schools nor Vniversities to breed up men for the Ministry Let us but make sure of good School-dames in every Parish to learn children to read and every parish will commence a Nursery of very able and sufficient Clerks that is Such as can read Primers Psalters and Bibles or any other books of reasonable good Prints If any will tell us that a Minister hath some other work We answer we know of no other But the administration of the Sacraments where God himself hath made the Form certain the Minister in those ordinances hath nothing farther that we know to do but to add the application of Prayer and Exhortation the two general acts of his office to that particular performance Let none tell us That he is to Convince gainsayers for that so far as it is the work of every ordinary minister it is by way of plain Scripture and ministerial reproof and for that too there are books enough in English So that we are confident That if St Paul had thought such kind of Discharge of the ministerial work would have acquitted Timothy's soul before God he would never have so called upon him as he doth 1 Tim. 4. 13. To give attendance to Reading to Exhortation to Doctrine Neglect not the gift that is in thee c. Nor have told him that such labourers in the word and Doctrine were worthy of double honour 1 Tim. 5. 11. Nor charged him To prove ministers was it whether they could read or no think we Not to lay hands suddenly on any Nor charged him as 2 Tim. 1. 6. To stir up the gift of God Nor called upon him rightly to divide the word of truth it had been divided to his hand he would never have called upon Timothy as 1 Tim. 4. 15. To Meditate on the Scripture To give himself wholly to that study that his profiting might appear to all § 4 But we find our old friend Ireneus Freeman here again opposing us not urging the lawfulness of Magistrates imposing and Ministers using forms of sermons but pretending a different Reason betwixt Forms of Prayers and of sermons which indeed may enfeeble our Minor Proposition we have onely to Examin what he saith whether it will amount to what he would have it For otherwise the strength of our Argument is evident enough to every deliberate Christian He begins with telling us That one would in charity think That these men were none of the Contrivers or Approvers of the Directory for these lamentable restraints both of sermons and Prayers are to be found there To which we answer That one would in charity also think That this Author a Scholar and Divine should speak truth And not abuse his Reader with a known falshood Surely he never read the Directory or hoped his Readers never would Who ever saw one form of

prayer or of a Sermon in the Directory Who ever heard any minister tying himself to the words there Doth not the name shew the matter of that book It onely directs the general matter which fourty other books do both as to Prayer and preaching and surely it is a charitable work Where doth it so much as direct much less prescribe a form of words or command the use of any such thing M r. Freemans Readers must take heed they look with their own eyes for never were more impudent imposings of that nature then some men are now hardy enough to make But possibly he goes on to more purpose I cannot saith he conceive them to be so unlearned as yet to learn why forms of sermons should not be imposed as well as forms of Prayer A mans mother-wit may prompt him with two Reasons We must confess we are so unlearned and ready to sit at this Gamaliels feet if he can instruct us in the case and onely fear his Mother-wit as he calls it not sufficient to instruct us or any part of the reasonable world in this point But let us hear his two Reasons for any thing of that nature shall be welcome to us His first Reason as he calls it he thus delivereth § 5 Because in the Sermon the minister speaketh what he thinketh is true if it appeareth otherwise the people may reject it But in prayer the Minister in the name of the people for he saith not I but we presenteth desires to God which sometimes happen to be quite contrary to the desires of some yea of all the people It may possibly fall out that the people cannot join with him in one expression whereby it comes to pass That both the Ministers Prayer is a falshood and that the people being in a praying posture do make a kind of Profession that they say Amen to those petitions which their souls Abominate Which makes it appear why there is more Reason that people should know beforehand what shall be prayed then what shall be preach which foreknowledge is the effect of forms To all which we answer That foreknowledge indeed may be the effect of forms provided that he who Readeth readeth them true at which we have more then once heard some very unhappy but the Question is what need there is That people should aforehand know the Words and Syllables by which their minds should be expressed to God more then the Words and Syllables by which Gods will should be declared unto them both duties must be done in the exercises of Faith Love Reverence Meekness Humility c. The pretended Reason now produced by this acute Author is Because in preaching the minister speaketh what he thinkes to be truth and if it be otherwise the people may reject it It is true That the Minister in speaking if he be not a very wretch speaketh what he thinketh to be true and that too in a Theological sense for he is the steward of the mysteries of God and of stewards it is required that they should be faithful he is the Embassador of Christ and God intreateth by him 2 Cor. 5. 20. It is as true That it is possible that a ministers words may be otherwise What Remedy hath the people They may reject them he saith that is not believe them 2 They may if he goeth on complain to the church who are to say to Archippus Take heed to thy Ministry If yet he will go on in such kind of preaching they may and ought to remove him Is it not the very same case as to Prayer should not he who prayeth petition for such things as he believeth to be according to the will of God Suppose he doth not May not the people at the time withold their Amen May they not complain of him to the officers of the church Should not they admonish him And if he go's on remove him from his station What shadow is here of different Reason But he saith In Prayer the minister speaketh in the name of the People for he saith not I but we Pitiful And when he is preaching doth he not speak in the name of God Is he not in Christs stead 2 Cor. 5. 20. We would have the reader but consider Which ought more warily to be done Is there a fear that the minister in Prayer should beg of God something which the people would not have him ask which indeed as to many of the people who have no mind to be purged of their lusts he doth every time he prayeth as he ought to pray And is there no fear that in preaching the Minister should declare something which God would not have him declare And is not this full as ordinary and a thousand times greater error For it is not the peoples willings that is our Rule in prayer but Gods will on the behalf of people And we think The same reveiled will of God is the rule of our preaching too as well as Prayer And we would fain know Why the people may not withold their Amen in Prayer as well as in Preaching And their faith and Assent in hearing Are not these subtil ratiocinations for one to Domineer over his brethren with He saith It may sometime so happen that a Prayer may be put up and the people cannot join in one Petition That surely is a rare case And it may be it is nothing but the error and lusts of their hearts hinder them but that in the same prayer they may join in every petition the Prayer for all this may be for things according to the will of God and in the name of Christ which is the ministers rule not the peoples sentiments and lusts But let us now compare Is is not possible also That a preachment or Harangue may be made in a pulpit in which the people cannot find one entire proposition which they can give assent to How many discourses of late years have we had in Pulpits pretending to prove Men have a natural power to things Spiritually good That we are not justified by the imputed Righteousness of Christ but by our own works How many perfect Satyrs Raillerys and Evomitions of the lusts and choler in the Preachers hearts Such as people could not assent to one Proposition nor in hearing exercise the least Faith Love or Reverence but according to Gods will they have abhorred and abominated But he saith The people being in a praying posture do make a profession of assent to the Petitions which they abominate Doth their posture do it in prayer will not their presence and sitting still do the same in hearing May they shew their dissent in preaching by turning their backs and departing and may they not do the same in Prayer if they see cause So as this first pretended Reason signifieth just nothing Nay it may be improved to an higher advantage for us See the Commissioners Accompt of their Proceedings p. 20 21. It is known that in Preaching a man hath far greater

speak particularly § 7 Mr. Freeman assumeth in the third place what is false viz. That we are continually to pray for the same things Certainly we have neither the same sins at all times to confess nor the same wants at all times to begg a supply of nor the same receipts of mercy at all times to give thanks for and therefore forms of prayer will no more fit us then forms of preaching where neither have we any new gospel or doctrine to preach Witness that known Ipswich story Where an eminent son of the church not being able out of the Liturgy to fit the case of the man that was goared by an Ox with a thanks giving was put to it to read in his case The office for churching women We must profess we tremble at the force of the consequence of this Argument so horrid a thing do we look upon it to establish a power in man at his pleasure to smother and totally to suppress ministerial gifts The great means which God hath thought fit immediately to give and by his word to appoint for converting and perfecting souls and make them wholly useless That we stand amazed that any understanding Christian should agree to it § 8 But we hear some saying That they do not agree to any such power though they think they shall not sin in obeying such a command yet they think the superior sinneth in commanding To which we answer We must grant that there are many things which the superiour cannot command but he must sin yet the people may without sin obey if they be commanded And in requital to us for this concession we are sure the most wise and sober of our brethren will grant to us That there are thousands of other things which can neither lawfully be commanded nor obeyed if commanded The question is in which order of things The ordinary discharge of our Ministerial acts in prayer by the prescribed forms of others is Or whether in neither of them but such as may both be universally commanded also used Our Brethren we believe judge the last but for advantage against us Suppose them in the first order we think them in the Second order Because Prayer is a divine institution Praying and Preaching are both so and great means in order to the conversion edification and eternal salvation of souls and that in order to both of them God hath furnished his ministers with gifts Man saith you shall not use that means but another mean in the performance of those acts which I judge more accommodate to this end then your own gift To say no more Those who think That obedience in this case is not a disobedience to God seem not to have that Reverence for God which we desire that our souls may be possessed of to judge his wisdom paramount to the wisdom of men § 9 When we could relieve our selves by thinking But there is yet no such thing required of us or ordinarily to perform our ministerial acts in preaching by reading sermons made to our hands We find we cannot because our consciences tell us we grant the Principle That it may be done and if commanded we are obliged no more to dispute such command In granting man a power to suppress or smother one ministerial gift we yeild him a power for him to impose upon us as to the other and oblige our selves to obey We must profess let others think what they please we cannot but judge That those who can swallow this and stumble at a Ceremony do but strain at a gnat while unwarily they swallow a camel This is more to us then a thousand surplices or rings in marriages But we have said enough to establish this argument which we cannot find any where answered in the All-satisfying Mr. Hooker CHAP. VII The Sixth Argument Stated and Justifyed Whether the precept for ministerial Vocal prayer includes not the use of our own gifts The precept for preaching ordinarily so interpreted There is in all languages a difference betwixt the words that signify to Read and those by which the Action of Prayer is exprest § 1 WE proceed to a Sixth Argument which we thus form To pretend to perform an act of Divine worship and at the same time not to do it is sinful But for ministers furnished by God with the gift of prayer to perform their ministerial Acts in prayer by the prescribed forms of others is to pretend to the performance of an act of Divine worship and at the same time not to do it Ergo. The proposition will be granted by all who will be so just as to acknowledge It is sinful both to mock God and to deceive our own souls so as all we have to prove is the Assumption and that depends upon the resolution of this single question Whether the Precepts for Vocal ministerial prayer doth not imply the first forming of the petitions in our hearts which we utter with our lips Where we desire our Reader to observe That the question is not about the precept for Prayer in the general but about Vocal prayer when we are to express the desires of our hearts by the words of our lips such is all Ministerial prayer The case is quite otherwise when we onely pray but do not minister in prayer We know Hannah may pray and her voice not be heard but we also know That a minister in his publick ministry must not so pray as we hope all will grant Now we profess we do very much incline to the affirmative part of the question That is we think wheresoever God hath commanded his ministers in their Publick ministry to pray The meaning is That they should first in their own hearts form such petitions as they judge according to the will of God both on their own behalf and their peoples and then to express such conceptions and desires by their own words and we are induced thus to judge from these reasons § 2 The whole world almost the Christian world we mean thus interpreteth for Preaching No sober Divine that ever we met with ever said that a minister of the gospel could discharge his ministerial office in preaching no not in one Individual Act by reading or reciting another mans sermon Mr. Perkins Dr. Amer two of our Protestant Casuists determin the quite contrary and tell us That To Read or recite another mans sermon is not to preach and therefore a late hypercritical son of the church took himself concerned in a book printed some few years since to distinguish between Preaching and Teaching and took upon him to learn us a new lesson That a Minister is not bound to Preach but to Teach And that if we may believe him he may do By reading anothers Sermon or good book By writing a good book By setting another to teach By living a good life c. But none we know off ever affirmed That to read or recite another mans Sermon was a lawful discharge of the