Fourthly the precedents of the Anabaptists doe teach vs what an vnbrideled thing the people is where they take the sword to worke reformation with And that if the Anabaptists which condemne warres went about by force to establish their heresies that much more these factious mates cōpounded of diuers sortes of heretikes and schismatikes rebellious persons putting such glory in armes would assuredly haue made a great stirre if they had not bene repressed Fiftly their threatning wordes which God would not suffer them to conceale did bewray their wicked purposes Martin threatneth force against those that maintaine the state The author of the demonstration denounceth great troubles towarde if they may not haue their will and sayeth That the discipline shall come in by a way that shall make all our heartes to ake And another of Martins 1 Mart. se◠whelpes braggeth of a hundred thousand handes and threatneth that they will strike a great stroke in the setting vp of discipline And therefore seeing both by their doctrine and wordes and deedes they doe declare themselues and their meaning In vaine doeth this lunatike scribe babble that they entend no rebellion What should I beleeue wordes when wee may see deedes to the contrarie yea factes openly maintained in writing Adde hereunto the drift of T. Cartwrights Penries Martins bookes to moue a dislike in mens mindes of the present gouernement and nothing will appeare more notorious then the bad meaning of these mutinous libellers But saith the libeller Whereas the aduersaries doe take as a principle that whosoeuer writeth to worke a discontentment in the mindes of the subiects doe entend rebellion that is a most vntrue assertion and sophisticall paralogisme so little doeth hee vnderstand either what is vntrueth or what is a paralogisme for the trueth of the assertion I haue alreadie clearely demonstrated and well doeth it appeare that hee vnderstood not his Logike termes Arist elench 1. that maketh one proposition a paralogisme for a paralogisme is a sophisticall syllogisme consisting of diuers propositions but this assertion is neither syllogisme nor sophisticall assertion conteining a very plaine trueth which nowe themselues haue iustified by their actions and alwayes politikes haue taken it as an vndoubted trueth for no man writeth to moue mens mindes to discontentment with the present gouernement but hatcheth in his owne minde the seedes of rebellion First the papistes wrote diuers seditious pamphlets against religion and the state afterwarde they put on armes and rebelled So first came forth Martin and diuers pamphlets of like argument afterwarde rose vp king Hacket the great emperour of the disciplinarian faction and his prophets the onely fault was that their patriarkes were not readie to followe them or could not followe them for the multitude of boyes that gaped and gazed vpon them Secondly he saith they write in an humble loyall and dutifull sort Of which let Cartwrightes Martins Penries bookes beare witnes for pride and spite and disloyaltie I neuer read bookes that matched them Thirdlie Hee would defend his clyents with the example of Christ that discouered many abuses and Peter that stroke off Malchus his eare a seruant or pursiuant as hee saith of the high priestes Percase hee would haue his compagnions to cut off the pursiuants and the Queenes messengers eares yea and head too if they could So little can he cōteine himselfe that in the defence of force and rebellion hee doeth nothing but breathe force and rebellion And is still talking of killing and cutting But the case is vnlike for Christ neuer spake against the lawes these say that we haue an antichristian gouernement Christ condemneth not the office of priestes these condeme the office of Bishops and the ecclesiasticall state Christ sought not to erect any new Consistorie or gouernement in dispite of gouernours these doe nothing else Peter strake off Malchus eare which Christ healed these would cut mens throates for to haue their consistorie and so leaue them In fine these neither are like Christ nor Peter nor good Christians but raile reuell conspire and raise mutinies They doe not speake to the gouernours where they may haue redresse of disorders but mutter in the eares of the people as if they meant to renew a new massacre or make the 1 Vespres Siciliennes Mach. Histor Fiorent lib. 1. Sicilian euensong which was euidently declared by that blasphemous wretch Hacket Neither may it excuse them which the libeller alledgeth That the burgesses of Parliament are thither sent by all the people which cannot vnderstand what to desire vnlesse they be taught before For if they meant onely to obteine it by parliament and not by force and faction of the people it had bene sufficiēt to teach her Maiestie or the parliament or any one burgesse for so lawes are framed And as those that speake against the lawes and ciuil gouernment in euery place before the people cannot auoide the name of rebels albeit the same be afterwarde motioned in parliamēt no more can these excuse thēselues of disloyaltie in all places declaiming against the present regiment albeit they woulde haue the same altered by parliament Further hee saith that if they pretended rebellion then they would rise vp and reforme things themselues rather then write bookes to that purpose As if it were not madnesse to rise before they had prepared the peoples mindes to rebellion Nay first a side must be made and then matters must bee executed So that it appeareth that his complices did take the direct way to rebellion and that this course could not bee taken before that men were moued to discontentment by villeinous bookes like those of Martin and his whelpes Fiftly he commendeth his clyents for teaching true obedienee and that with greater Zeale and sinceritie then the bishops But the vanitie of this obiection appeareth by the generall doctrine of their chiefe patriarkes for killing of princes raysing of force and rebellion is simple proofe of true obedience And albeit these latter doe not so directly teach it yet Fenner whome 1 He calleth his doctrine 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 caelestis Canaan T. C. doth highly magnifie doth allow inferior Magistrates to bridle and depose princes and giueth authoritie to the people to reforme religion from which opinions not only all bishops but all good subiects are very farre Sixtly hee 2 2 Pag. q. 43. that euer his consortes eyther by writing words or acts went about to make any stirres for the bringing in of their new discipline This man wil percase denie that the sunne giueth light at noone day if it make for the cause of the consistory for the sunne is not more cleare then the leud practises of these sectaries Their doctrine doth wholly tende vnto trouble and rebellion 3 De iure magistratuum in subditos Beza in his booke of the power of magistrates doth arme the subiects against the princes in these causes The author of the booke which is intituled Vindiciae
eyes and therefore hauing vndertaken to answere others of the mans bold assertions and forged accusations of the ecclesiasticall state I thought it not amisse withall to touch his bolde demeanour against Iudges and presumptuous censure of their proceedings Not that I meant to make priuate men Iudges of their superiours but that you may see the boldnesse of them that spare none that are not of their humors and reuell both at the Clergie and Iudges If the proceedings of magistrates were not iustifiable yet is this course which these men haue taken very lewd and offensiue How much more offensiue then will it seeme when it appeareth that the Iudges haue proceeded according to lawe and done not onely Iustice but shewed great mercie and fauour to the partie And how wiselie doeth this man seeme to haue pleaded for his client when I thinke himselfe will not denie but that hee liueth rather by mercy then demerite that he was most fauourably dealt withall all that were by will witnesse and himselfe I thinke will not denie if he should very many arguments would conuince him For first whereas diuers seditious Sermons might haue bene obiected against him he was onely endited for his seditious practises in making and publishing the booke of Demonstration of Discipline as they lewdly call it Secondly whereas Chatfield could haue spoken diuers things very materiall against him yet was he not forced to come to testifie Thirdly being by diuers witnesses and great euidence sufficient to induce any Iury to passe against him conuinced yet had he this fauour to be asked for satisfying the Iury and clearing himselfe if he would take it either vpon his conscience yea or credite that he was not the author of that booke and might percase haue escaped if he durst haue denied so plaine a matter Seeing he would neither affirme vpon his conscience nor credite his innocencie what reason should the Iury haue had to take that vpon their conscience which the partie himselfe would not take either vpon his conscience or credite Lastly although the sentence of law be passed vpon him yet is the execution of lawe differred Wherein if he doe not acknowledge himselfe fauourably dealt withall all men will acknowledge that he deserueth litle fauour The obiections and exceptions brought by the Libeller are most false and friuolous He saith that there is no offence in writing that booke committed against the statute of 23. Eliz. cap. 2. Wherein he crosseth the sentence of the Iudges and most wise men of this lande and speaketh most euident vntrueth For if railing against her Maiesties Ecclesiasticall lawes and gouernment and seeking the subuersion of it be no offence these fellowes challenge to themselues great impunitie and licence He auoweth that it was not prooued that one man made the booke and the Epistle before the booke which is not materiall for if he writte the wordes conteined in the enditement then was the enditement truely found Besides the same is vntrueth for it is absurd to surmise where a man publisheth a booke that another setteth to the Epistle and he that made the Epistle doeth in termes auowe the booke Neither skilleth it that some haue thought that Penry had his hand in it for that doeth not hinder but that Vdal might also be a doer in it But what neede we other argument to prooue this withall then that Vdal would not disauow either Epistle or booke or what neede any dispute about the difference of the Epistle and booke seeing the enditement compriseth both vnder the name of booke and both doe followe the title That which he saith that he was conuicted for the Epistle and the euidence brought for the booke is vntrue for the euidence was brought for both And very improbable it were that any should be condemned for matter without the enditement or that there should in the enditement be made a difference betwixt the booke and the Epistle These things considered let all men iudge whether it be likely that Iohn Vdal should be condemned guiltlesse and whether the bare affirmation of a man lying desperately should be taken against the deposition of witnesses recordes of the Court verdict of the Iury and sentence of so graue and religious a Bench especially the man being so guilty and the case so plaine His very friendes condemned him and his owne conscience accused him Chatfields deposition Chatfield deposeth that he sawe papers in Vdals Studie conteining libellous matter which himselfe wished Vdal to make away and confesseth that Vdal saide to him in choller that the Bishops had best to take heede howe they stopped his mouth for if they did he would fall on writing and giue them such a blowe as they neuer had in their liues Which blowe could not be vnderstoode but of that whereof he was conuicted In his Sermons he fell often vpon the argument of his booke which considered with other circumstances may shewe him guiltie yea and so guiltie that being demanded by the Bench he could not deny it no though he might haue saued his life by the deniall and renunciation of the booke Seeing then all this notwithstanding the mans innocencie is in a booke publikely diuulgued defended against such notorious euidence and vpright proceedings who doeth not see that I haue reason to detest the notorious presumption of such censors If any deserue blame not they that speake in defence of iustice but those that traduce it are to be blamed That therefore which was well meant without iniurie to any receiue with fauour and if in this matter thou wilt shewe signes of displeasure let not the innocent but such as presumptuously reprehend and by faction seeke to ouerthrowe lawe and iustice feele it Faultes escaped IN the Epist dedicat pag. 5. lin 7. reade valued pag. 13. l. 16. aldermen pag. 18. l. 22. neuer was pag. 20. l. 5. wisdome and learning pag. 22. l. 1. contrarie pag. 25. l. 1. themselues line 11. doubt not pag. 31. l. 17. learned line 18. dele mar pag. 82. line 27. bring him vnder pag. 84. l. 18. say it nor pag. 85. l. 2. worthie councellour pag. 92. l. 28. thinke pag. 95. l. 23. now denieth it pag. 107. l. 20. reproches pag. 134. l. 33. they are nought in lawe after their death or cession if they pag. 141. in margine reade Rescius page 155. l. 5. that there is no reason that Th. Cartwright pag. 167. l 22. too wise pag. 167. l. 23. as these are pag. 181. l. 4. as good fellowes as his deacons pag. 90. l. 20. sinne but.
such authors argumēts as these fellowes as yet delay to answere As for Daneau and certaine pety compagnions defenders thereof their authority is of no weight speaking against such antiquitie and consent and reason The Libeller would also haue the ecclesiasticall state made odious for their misgouernment a very malitious and insufficient course for suppose that 3 or 4 should doe against lawe is it reason that law should be taken away or that many should suffer for a few mens faults how much more vnreasonable is it that the same should bee oppressed for supposed misgouernment That articles are ministred to parties conuented in law and subscription required to lawes is most consonant to lawes neither is any thing in the lawes of England or the statute 25. Henr. 8.19 there to the contrary The Libeller seemeth not to vnderstand himselfe nor others when hee talketh of bishops deuising articles and subscriptions and publishing them in their owne names for there can not be deuised a more absurde kinde of speach Subscriptions are required of others and not published and articles are obiected as priuate meanes to bolt out trueth not as lawes to be practised A course vsuall in all courts of chancery eschecker starrechamber but what reason had this fellowe to obiect to bishops that which they doe not when Th. Cartw. and his 2 At Warwicke Cambridge London c. the actes thereof are euidence sufficient fellowes contrary to the statutes and lawes of the Realme assembled in secrete manner made lawes and subscribed them and published them among themselues and yet are not punished for it They say that bishops appoynting speciall prayers vpon occasion of the inuasion of the Spaniards and other speciall causes doe contrary to that which they require in others but they mistake for those offend not that in euery point of the Communion booke obserue not strict order which the booke in some case aloweth but such malitious felowes as of malitiousnes refuse it and contemptuously oppugne it Neither is the vse of speciall prayers vpon occasion contrary to the vse of the booke of common prayer subscribed vnto with exclusion of all other orders of common prayers for both may stand together Neither did Byshops any thing in this behalfe without her Maiesties speciall commandement But these fellowes are of those that allow not her Maiesties godly orders nor any thing done by Gouernors nor any prayers but fond loose vaine and absurd babbling oraisons of Puritans and seeme to be sory that any should pray against the Spaniards They thinke also and the Libeller affirmeth that it is as lawfull for contentious persons to refuse the surples as for Byshops not to vse pastorall staues But it is most absurde so to say the vse of the surples being consirmed by law the vse of the pastorall staues not being required by lawe or custome But were pastorall staues enioyned by lawe is this a good reason because Bishops offend that euery lawlesse compagnion should passe without controlment That Cawdry was punished by order of lawe is apparant for that the statute doeth authorize the high Commissioners to proceede according to their Commission If any fault were therein cōmitted it was that he was vsed with so 1 His cause was almost two yeeres in handling his conformitie continually being exspected much lenitie Neuer was any more obstinate nor could any man haue more fauor especially without desert for neither had he learning nor other good qualitie nor was any more factious That felonies were examined before the high Commissioners Ec-Ecclesiasticall is a vaine cauill neither doeth it follow because vpon examinations of matters fellonious libels are found out that they proceede to the cognition and determining of felonies Neither do the Ecclesiastical Iudges contray to law either in citations or ministring othes in causes ex officio or punishing lewde factious perturbers of the state If this felow doe maintaine the contrary let him leaue his idle quotations and set downe the wordes of law enforce them by argument to his purpose Otherwise all men may see he goeth about rather to calumniate good men then to iustifie any accusation against his aduersaries If he prooue nothing let him be ashamed to cal his factious compagnions seekers of reformation their libels and friuolous pamphlets bookes of reformation and cease to impugne her Maiesties lawes sentence of Iudges against Iohn Vdall whose fact no man can defend but such as maintaine sedition faction nor praise but such as are enamored of senceles vnlearned hypocrites let him cease to charge the Bishops with seeking his life for they are not his parties nay next to her Maiestie he is to thanke some Bishops for his life for if they had bin as he saith nay if some had not entreated for him percase he had bin hanged all this controuersie taken vp and ended If he cease not percase the world will thinke that Vdall deserued rather more seueritie then is now shewed to him and that the libellers bolde demeanour may procure him to haue iustice for his foolish prating rather then fauour for any wittie reasoning Hitherto all the Libellers dispute is without sequele for admit some one or more shoulde teache falsely or doe against lawe yet is it no reason that euery base compagnion should with open mouth rayle against her Maiesties gouernement and Lawes and call them Antichristian and speake against the whole cleargie yea against Iudges and all that fauour the present gouernment Let those that haue taught falsely be refuted and those that haue done leudly bee punished That the state should be dissolued for the misgouernment of particulars no reason will admit That the platformers offer their liues to prooue their discipline which the libeller alledgeth to excuse thē is a sencelesse reason for no traytors nor felōs deale in any cause that they vndertake but they offer and venture their liues for it yea and Iacke Strawe Hacket offred their liues to prooue their reformation whereas these fellowes contrariwise are very loath to loose liues lands or goods for their discipline and loose nothing but with much grumbling and repining and come farre behinde the Iesuites and Papists in that poynt And so simple is their proofe that if they bee wise they will not venture any thing vpon it for the demonstrations of discipline stande confuted without replye and all their presbyteriall imaginations rest beaten without answere neyther is any argument in all T. C. his great confused Chaos of replyes left vntouched His multiplicitie of wordes wee leaue to factious Puritans that speake ordinarily without sence or matter to play withall To excuse his fellowes silence the Libeller pretendeth want of libertie Printers which cannot iustly be alledged for how can they want printers hauing Waldgraue in Scotland and others at Geneua Middleburg Leyden at commaundement beside their priuate presses Or how can they pretend want of liberty seeing none haue bene long imprisoned and many
probable nor euer did shee desire it nor can the Libeller proue it Onely she desireth that according to the lawes of God and the Realme as she and the learned iudges do interprete them and as the words doe signifie she may rule the Church This they doe denie and doe attribute this power to the factious Consistorie and therefore are factious Puritans Quaere Put-case Quest 13. whether the Archbishops of Canterbury should not rather be called Popes then Primates of all England seeing that a Cardinall gaue them the name of Primate as master Lambert saith and a Pope assigned them the name of Popes Heere I must also aske the Put-case a question or two viz. Answere why Tho. Cartwright is not called Tho. Wheelewright seeing hee would turne all round as a wheele and why W. Staw is not called Iohn Daw like reason is in both Names are giuen some by Lawe some gotten by vse And therefore seeing Archbishopsare called Primates euer since before the councell of Carthage great absurditie it is to dispute whether the Archbishop should be so called or no. And farre was master Lambert from his recknoning when he imagined the Cardinall Hugo to bee author of that name Neither can he shew that the Archbishop was euer called Pope by Vrban before the factious Puritans in their rayling vayne deuised that name for him in scorne But whatsoeuer was giuen sometime or nowe is in scorne cast on him hee renounceth the name Pope for the abuse of it and is farre from clayming the Papall authoritie If hee had the authoritie eyther of the Pope or of a meane Bishop yet durst not euery Sycophant play with his name and style neyther would such base fellowes so shamefully abuse him Hee ruleth by lawes he deriueth his authoritie from her Maiestie he can doe no man wrong he is vtter enemie to all papall authoritie Contrariwise the Lordes of the consistorie take on them like Popes to iudge in Christes seate to be Christes vicars to controll and excommunicate Princes to dissolue States to giue lawe to Kings to throwe to hell and no man may once speake against them where they rule without danger of their libertie and life These therefore are popes in deede and seeing they are so why may they not be called also Popes seeing they are dubbed with this name by diuers Quaere Put-case Quest 14. if Wickleffe Luther Caluin c. were nowe aliue and should speake against the Lordship of Bishops as they doe in their writings to which prison the Bishops would send them and whether doe bookes seene and allowed conteine matters of Felonie and diffamatorie to the Queene Quaere also Answere if the skie should fall where would bee best catching of woodcockes both questions are alike For as the skie wil not fal in haste so would not these learned men mentioned in this question euer open their mouthes against godly men or the state degree of bishops That is onely proper to the foulemouthed puritanes They speake against the tyranny and vanities of popish bishops with whome our puritanes doe not much meddle but rather treacherously strike good souldiers that fight against thē Our puritanes declaime against holy bishops of times past and preachers of the holy Gospel such as those learned men neuer condemned Let the libeller if he can bring forth one place which is not meant of papisticall bishops And therefore let them goe to the Fleete themselues as mutinous companions the fellowshippe of those learned men they cannot haue whose bookes although they bee allowed for diuerse good things found in them yet can it be no warrant for the platformers high stiled declamations nor any iustification for that which is euill For there can bee nothing more vnlike then bishop Latimers booke and Cartwrightes replies defacing the bishops Neyther are the wordes seene and allowed sufficient to warrant seditious writings For sometimes printers are too bold sometime the authors sometime the correctors and it cannot bee denyed but in Wickleffes bookes there bee faultes Chaucer and Reynold the Foxe are allowed to bee printed and many bookes moe for the good they haue not that any part of the leudnesse of them is allowed And therefore let the Putcase leaue pleading of seene and allowed seeing wee can neyther see his consortes much nor allowe them nor approoue whatsoeuer by their fauourers is printed though it be with seene and allowed Quaere why papists should finde more fauour Putcase Quaest 15. them the seekers of reformation and why they should not bee condemned as felons for their abominable doctrine If all should be punished Answere that maintaine abominable doctrine it would go very hard with the puritanes whose haeretical and leud opinions are very many and very abominable The particulers I haue in part touched before and shall if neede be lay them downe more amplie elsewhere Let not therfore this Putcase repine at her Maiesties clemencie wherin her special honor consisteth seeing they enioy it liue by it themselues let them not enuie it to others That papistes are more fauoured then puritanes is a bold and impudent assertion for it is wel knowen that diuers of them haue bene executed some as traytors some as felons others haue payde for it as recusants whereas none of this faction haue bene punished in like degree saue Hacket albe it they denie her Maiesties supremacie many of them refuse to come to church If there bee any that haue fauoured papists let them susteyne the shame of it for the ecclesiasticall state hath bene most diligent to suppresse them whereas contrariwise by entreatie fauour meanes made by puritanes by some one that hath his finger in this petition many haue bene dismissed First therefore I answere that it is vntrue that papists find fauour more then puritanes Secondly that the fauour which is procured for them proceeded specially from puritanes and their fauourers Thirdly that neither of them both deserueth fauour Fourthly that seeing her Maiesties pleasure is to shew them fauour for their liues they are not to repine at it nor malepertly to traduce her doings Lastly that the puritanes in termes do more maliciously oppugne her Maiesties proceedings ecclesiastical lawes then the most trecherous papists that are fled for the same out of the land And that therefore they are to quiet themselues and not to stirre in this their bad cause for the more it is opened the worse it sauoureth Quaere Putcase Quaest 16. if the bishops proceedings against men per ordinem inquisitionis doe not resemble the papall order in the time of crueltie Nothing is lesse like Answere for the Iudges now proceede by authority of her Maiestie and according to her lawes and yet are abused by euery base felow In times past they proceeded by other authoritie and by orders from the Popes then no man durst abuse thē These punish according to the Queenes lawes those according to their
and which he hath set downe in malitious Articles and interrogatories shall be answered neither doe I meane therein to omit any speach that shall seeme any way pertinent to purpose being loth he should say he was not answered Wherein if you see no colour or shew of reason for this newfound platformes or proofe of his accusation consider then I pray you first what indignitie hath ben offered by this libellor to the Church of God to her Maiestie and her lawes to the Ecclesiasticall state and such as liue in obedience of lawes and secondly what they deserue that haue offered this indignitie vnto so many and honorable persons and brought this scandale into the Church of God the common 1 Rescius iâ— ministromach aduersarie maketh profite of those shameles slaunders which those vnciuil and vnlettered authors of the Admonition haue vttered against the Church the aduersarie triumpheth to see this contention disordered companions take occasion of contumacie and rebellion when will the gouernors vse like diligence to represse them If then you loue religion her Maiestie and the state you will not suffer such notorious reuellors at lawes and gouernors if you be desirous of trueth you will no more be abused with vaine gloses H. Nicholas hath painted his booke with quotations as full as T.C. he vseth the same stile and seemeth to haue the same erronious spirit He saith as well as T.C. that for Sions sake 2 In euangel regni he will not holde his peace and yet nether of both speaketh to purpose nor to the edifying but rather the pulling downe of Gods Church and therefore seing both the authors and their dealings haue bene tried let them be both dealt with all and esteemed according to their deserts It may be these felowes looked for answere of her Maiestie and to say sooth the Magistrate were most fitte to shape aunsweres for such disordered petitions but in the meane while it may please them to accept of my answere they are no such high persons but meaner men then her Maiestie may answere them reason it is seing they put their petition in print they should also receiue a printed answere and seing they chalenge me they should heare my answere And let them not thinke but that howsoeuer their malice is repressed by lawe their fond assertions and cauils shal be refuted by reason That trueth may appeare I haue done my endeuour God is my witnesse I seeke for nothing but trueth and peace there rosteth then nothing but that trueth be embraced and lawe maintained for little auaileth it to knowe either if by faction mutinie lawes may be broken trueth oppressed to make trueth and Iustice knowen it belonged to vs to defend the same belongeth to Magistrates to wish the same to all reade therefore and iudge and seeke the maintenance of Iustice and trueth without which neither Church nor state can be well gouerned AN ANSWERE TO A CERtaine calumnious Petition and also to certaine Articles and Questions of the Consistorian faction CAP. I. Wherein is declared that the authoritie and state of Bishops as it is vsed in England is lawfull and the Petitioners cauils brought to the contrary answered ALmightie God when he gaue Magistrates and Lawes vnto his Church appoynted first and next vnder the soueraigne Magistrate one high Priest to haue the 1 Deut. 17. leuit 13. exod 28. nom 3. 4. superintendence of the affaires of the church and vnder him 2 1. Chron. 24. 25. diuers heads of their diuisions that things might be done in order And lest wee might suppose that this was but a ceremoniall constitution vnder the Law of nature the chieftie of the Priesthoode ouer all his was first in Noe then in Sem then in Abraham then in Isac and Iacob afterward in the 12 Patriarkes which for many yeres gouerned their whole families both in matters diuine and humane If equalitie of ministers had bene so profitable no doubt God would haue vsed that order in his Church The Lawe ceremoniall ceasing our Sauiour ruled his Church as soueraigne Bishop of our soules he adioyned no fellowe aldermen to himselfe Departing this worlde he gaue commission to his disciples within those places where they remayned to gouerne the church So we reade that they did excommunicate alone that they did ordeine ministers alone yea and did by superiour authoritie order both the affayres and goods of the church Paul did excommunicate 3 1. Timoth. 1. Alexander and Hymenaeus Peter as Beza confesseth by the swoorde of excommunication strooke Ananias and Saphyra alone Beza aduers Erast Paul ordeined Timothy and Titus and Timothy and Titus ordeined other ministers The Apostle Paul prescribeth orders and lawes to Timothy and Titus and their churches the populer gouernement which our platformers commend was not so much as in time of persecution vsed This was the practise of the Apostles successors likewise Saint Iohn writeth to the bishop of Ephesus to the bishop of Smyrna and likewise to the seuerall Bishoppes of other Churches to them hee giueth directions them he reprehendeth for bearing with the wicked which if they had had no authoritie aboue other Ministers had bene very vnfitting All Ecclesiasticall stories writing of that argument giue witnesse that seuerall Bishops succeeded the Apostles at Rome Constantinople Alexandria Ierusalem Antioche other famous Churches Saint Ierome and diuers other ancient writers testifie that Marke ruled Alexandria as Bishop which happened in Saint Iohns time All counsels giue preheminence to Bishops ouer other Ministers and to the counsels the fathers subscribe by infinite testimonies whereof it may appeare that excommunication ordination and the gouernement of the Church next vnder the prince did belong to Bishops the wordes I haue set downe heretofore in my English booke written against this counterfeite newe discipline Saint Ierome hath a most pregnant place for excommunication Ieronym aduers vigilant where hee wondereth that no one Bishop could bee found to excommunicate Vigilantius and if all the gouernement of the Church was committed to Bishops no doubt but that they disposed of these matters also When in our times religion began to be reformed the chiefe learned men that then liued and tooke paines therein In histor Apologia confess August protested in their publike writinges to the entent that all posteritie should knowe it that if Bishops would embrace religion they would most willingly submit themselues to their episcopall iurisdiction accompting in most godly and expedient for the Church Melancthon vseth many speeches to that purpose fearing that if the authoritie of bishops were reiected a greater tyranny would succede and Caluine likewise to Sadolete protesteth that he misliketh not Episcopal authoritie Neither can any thing bee deuised more absurd then that equalitie of ministers which is brought in to ouerthrow Bishoppes for no gouernement can be without superioritie neither can any thing bee well ordered where there is no speciall care in some one it
perceiue we shall haue a new booke of counsels to frame a new consistory withall to put the blame from himselfe he putteth it on Illyricus as true a quoter of textes almost as euer was Th. Cartwr his scholler but suppose that which 1 Catal. test veritat pag. 121. Illyricus hath of this counsell were true yet can not the wordes of the counsell be interpreted against bishops for suppose that a bishop may not be a King or Prince and that the callings be distinct yet may hee haue episcopall iurisdiction against which that counsell is alledged To helpe his aray of counsels hee bringeth in a supply of Fathers but very vnlike it is that they should speake against counsels being diuers of them chiefe doers in diuers counsels and therefore let him take heede least while hee mustereth the names of Fathers against bishops the men themselues doe not all fight against him That Cyprian is contrary to his allegation it is notorious for he establisheth the dignitie of bishops and vtterly ruinateth the cause of the new come gentlemen called Church-aldermen Hee subiecteth the whole 2 Lib. 1. ep 3. brotherhoode to the bishop and sayth that the same obedience is according to the commaundements of God The same authoritie is confirmed by the letters of the clergie of Rome to Cyprian Post Fabiani 3 Lib. 2. ep 7. excessum say they non est constitutus à nobis episcopus qui omnia ista moderetur He giueth to bishops the 4 Lib. 3. ep 9. succession of the Apostles and from no 5 Lib. 4. ep 9. lib. 1. ep 3. other roote doeth hee suppose heresies and schismes to spring then from contempt of the authoritie of Bishoppes So shamelesse is this Libeller to alledge Cyprian against bishops that in the places aboue named yea and in the 6 Lib. 3. ep 10. places by him quoted doth confirme their authoritie For albeit Cyprian doeth say that from his first entrance into his charge hee had determined to doe nothing but by the consent of the people and counsell of his Clergie yet doeth it not make against his superioritie nay it confirmeth it rather For with vs Bishops may doe nothing without lawe which is a most certaine consent nay good Princes rule by counsell and Lawes and yet they will not denie but that Princes in all places and Bishops with vs haue a superiour aucthoritie ouer those that are committed to them And Cyprian in that selfe same Epistle writing to the priestes and Deacons vseth these woordes I 1 Hortor mando exhorte and commaund yea further hee prescribed what was to bee done both concerning the poore and confessors and 2 Vice mea fungamini circagerenda quae religiosa administratio deposcit made a deputation to others that were to gouerne in his absence as much or rather more then bishops may with vs take vpon them to doe Likewise in the 14 Epistle of his thirde booke alledged also against bishops there are found manifest argumentes for their authoritie For hee reprehendeth the presumption of certaine Ministers too rash in reconciling those that had fallen and declareth vnto them that the Bishop is 3 Ep. 14. episcopus ipsis praepositus set ouer them and that their place is vnder the bishop of which 4 Loci sui immemores they were vnmindfull that the bishops duetie was to 5 Vt instructi à praepositis faciant omnia instruct them and their dutie to obey him It is euident that this author was not much acquainted with Cyprian that alledgeth him thus cōtrary to his meaning which is most childish and absurd quoteth the 27 epistle of Cyprians 3 booke where there are onely 15 epistles there In 6 Lib. 1. ep 9. another place Cyprian reprehendeth a certaine minister being apointed gardein to orphans executor of a testament but how the same may be drawen to make against the estate of bishops I vnderstand not for bishops among vs desire no such matter as that which Cyprian cōdemneth neither came it euer in Cyprians meaning to condemne the authoritie of Bishops as it is vsed in this Realme If hee speake against any it is especially against T. C. for albeit he be a Minister as he sayth himselfe yet refused he not the execution of his brother Stubbes his will no nor refuseth the gouernment of his Hospitall and therefore this fellowe seemeth vnwise thus deepely to lanch his deare brother T.C. whose purchases and purloynings hee hath taken on him to defend where in the meane while the state of Bishops for any thing Cyprian sayth standeth inviolable nay in the same place their iurisdiction is confirmed for Cyprian being a Bishop taketh on him to reforme Ministers and giueth bishops 1 Episcopi antecessores nostri censuerunt c. sacerdotum decretum authoritie to make ecclesiasticall lawes which pearceth the Church-aldermen that long for superioritie to the very heart Finally he taketh on him to punish disorders then which authoritie what can be greater 2 Dist 10. c. quoniā idem Gratian also extolleth Bishops aboue Princes so farre is hee from speaking against Bishoppes or their authoritie so that to alledge Gratian for proofe is as much as to vse corrosiues for pleasant medicines Neither doth it take away or diminish the authoritie and state of Bishoppes that by the Canons they may not encroche vpon the Princes authoritie in Ciuill causes for wee say that the vocation of Magistracie and ministerie is distinct and that Bishoppes in England doe not in respect they are ministers meddle with Ciuil causes but as they are subiects and are commanded Wherein they doe not shewe themselues busie in encrochments in taking on them charges imposed but shoulde shewe themselues disloyall persons at least no good subiects if they shoulde refuse them the consistoriall faction contrariwise doeth encroche both vpon Ecclesiasticall and Ciuill gouernours hauing authoritie from neither and intrude themselues where no man sendeth for them or admitteth them After Cyprian Tertullians 3 De ieiunio booke of fasting is by force drawen in by the imperious Consistorials for euidence against Bishops which I cannot but wonder at seeing they condemne both fasting in Lent other fasts which he alloweth and the degree state of bishops which he commendeth in his booke 1 Lib. de baptism of baptisme where hee giueth the chiefetie and praerogatiue of Priesthoode to Bishoppes expelling out the impudent Aldermen that nowe are crept in I knowe not by what strange concetie into Churchgouerment In the booke of fasting there is not so much as the office of bishoppes mentioned much lesse any speach against them there is order taken for their allowance which the sacrilegious consistorials that haue ruinated the Church in all places where they come doe denie them In the same place Tertullian doth construe the place 1. Timoth. 5.17 against these men for hee onely vnderstandeth by Elders that rule
vs with their consistoriall presumptiō and yet did we not deale against their churches For that I wrote against the presbyterie I did it in respect that the same was obtruded to our church by a certaine vnlearned bold Italian that I wrote in Latine the cause was the Italians and Bezaes dealing for their presbyterie in Latine and also to let others vnderstād that our cause is such as we are able well to defend against Beza and all consistorials whatsoeuer and therefore seeing we meane not to obtrude our gouernement to them and so professe in our bookes let thē keepe their consistorie to thēselues and make much of it that it fal not to the ground for it is in very weake case Bezaes simple discourse doth yeeld it no comfort If any doe come forth to reply I do protest it is he that maketh the stirre and not I. and therefore for cōmon ease it were best for al to keepe silence but if they meane to prate of the glory of the consistory which our platformers esteeme as an idoll they must expect an answere and let not Beza thinke that his fond disputes against vs in his late three halfe penie pamphlet shall passe for oracles To returne to the libeller I answere that neither is it true that we handle the matter doubtfully for we are all resolued in our positiōs against thē nor that they hold their opinions resolutely for neither concerning the institution partes authoritie nor office of their consistorie doe any two of them agree neither doth it seeme probable that euer they wil agree they are at such contention among themselues for neither doe they knowe what they would haue nor wherefore Secondly I say that this argument is most simple and mishapen for suppose that two or three should handle the cause of the Church simplie it were no reason for the ignorance and simple dealing of two or three that the Chuch should be ouerturned and that new lawes and lordings shoulde come in place yet this is his wise conclusion because all doe not agree in all pointes that the matter must be called in question and bishops be displaced that certaine coate cardes in short ierkins may come in place to rule all either by their diuine inspiration or else according as Th. Cartw. the oracle of discipline shall determine which reason if it were admitted then howsoeuer we reteine the present gouernement yet shall wee for euer be discharged of the consistorie the patrons whereof contrarie one another most absurdly in infinit places write most irresolutely and strangely Lastly to bring the ecclesiastical state into question He alledgeth first that our lawes expect a further reformation that such as haue written against papistes puritans haue found imperfectiōs in our gouernemēt Which if he meane in the frame of our discipline or in respect that we haue bishops or want consistories he is abused they neither expect such a reformatiō nor auow any such thing by a certaine statute of K. Henry 8 power was giuen to 32 persons to gather into one body such lawes ecclesiastical as were nether repugnant to the lawes of the realme nor prerogatiue royall That they had as the petitioner saith authoritie to correct good lawes or to make new lawes is the first vntrueth The second vn trueth is That D. Cranmer other learned men did collecte the lawes into one booke for the booke that came forth with the title of Correctio legum Angliae was gathered not by D. Cranmer but by D. Haddon and that very simply without iudgemēt insomuch as al men of iudgemēt disliked it afterward himselfe also was ashamed of it nay contrary to the authoritie giuen him by statute he tooke vpon him not to gather lawes together but to gather a packe of new fancies together and to make new lawes coontrarie to the Ecclesiasticall lawes of the realme yea contrarie to equitie and reason as I shall iustifie if any will challenge me for it The lawes of nursing of children and marriages will verifie all that I say yea and his owne testimonie giuen of it Last of all the lawe whereby this collection of lawes was authorised is now repealed and not necessarie For albeit all doe not yet some knowe what is lawe but suppose ecclesiastical lawes that are in force should begathered together doeth it therefore followe that ecclesiasticall lawes must be all changed howsoeuer it is let not the aldermen bragge of these lawes for therein the authoritie of Bishops is confirmed churchaldermen not so much as mentioned they must therefore looke in some other place for in this booke their Consistorial conceites are not to be found In the booke of Common prayer there is a Commination prescribed to be vsed vntil an order of discipline practised in the primitiue Church should be restored But what maketh that for the establishment of the consistoriall discipline which was neither in the primitie Church nor in the cogitation of the authors of that booke the meaning of the booke is onely that the commination there mentioned shoulde be vsed vntil such time as in the time of Lent offenders might be brought to humble themselues as they did in the primitiue Church and that more fauour might be giuen to the execution of ecclesiastical lawes which is that discipline which they desire these felowes withstand and therefore hereafter I thinke wil not call for discipline for if the same were once executed then would not euery contentious person degorge his malice against lawe nor libellers and scismatickes be suffered to declaime against the state nor euery vnlearned mate be suffered to preach false doctrine and reuell at all antiquitie Neither doeth it followe because in the ordination of Mininisters it is saide take thou authoritie to preach the worde of God that euery Minister is apointed a preacher and that none are to be appointed Ministers but such as can preach which is that they desire And this libeller affirmeth for the exception which doth abbridge the lawe is 1 This practise is condemned by the law inciuile est ff de legebus cautelously and malitiously left out wherein he sheweth that his cause cannot stand but by forging and forcing the wordes are Take thou authoritie to preach where thou shalt be so appointed These fellowes disdaine appointmēt would runne before they be sent but vnlesse many had more learning and discretion it were better that some of those that take on them to preach were set to reade and such as runne so fast were made to sit still In Flaunders according to the rules of this discipline they would needes at the first haue euery one to preach but when they sawe the great inconuenience that came of it they put them to reade Caluins homilies on Iob. but suppose that in the point of discipline of Lent or in the number and qualities of preachers we haue not that we desire doeth it therefore followe that the Ecclesiasticall state
established doth not follow Wherefore vnlesse the author his partakers haue better supply of reasons then he hath brought here there is no cause he should desire conference or disputation If he desire to shew his skil in writing why doth he not take those bookes that haue bene written in this argument in hand and confute thē frō point to point why doth not T. Cartw. answere in the defence of his consistorie If he say that imprisonment hath hitherto bene an hinderance vnto him yet will not that excuse serue the rest that were neuer in prison why doe not W. Tr. Will. Ch. D. Sp. and others confirme their demonstrations of discipline wherein all their reasons stand confuted hauing so much worke to doe why shoulde he desire more belike this petition was made to bragge men downe but if he thinke he can do it he deceiueth himselfe for as farre as her Maiestie and lawes will permit they shall find a number readie in all sortes to encounter them but the libellers meaning is not to dispute as I thinke for no man hath worse grace in disputing nor more simple facultie in writing by hiding his head he seemeth rather to be ready to flye then fight his talke therefore of aduised writings is idle for both T. Cartw. and he hath written many things vnaduisedly and both flye the hammering of their cause only his purpose is to slander the state by libels to lurke in corners to haue all ecclesiasticall lawes and gouernement left without defence so that euery man might speake against them without eyther feare of punishment or controlment which neyther is good nor commendable for it would be most absurde if 3 or 4 difformed platformers should be suffered to dispute in schooles that her Maiesties authoritie is vnlawfull that our lawes and gouernement is wicked that the state is to be changed As for the course that Doctor Rainolaes vsed against Hart it was lawfull he being thereto authorised percase fitting for him might better be suffred being in poynts of religion resolued then in gouernement doubted of yet was it long and without effect but this course of priuate conference by writing which the libeller desireth in this cause is leude being against her Maiestie the lawes and state it would bee a way to rebellion it would make more contention it would bee infinite tedious and to no purpose the godly and Christian Emperors of Rome were of a contrary mind to this libeller for in diuerse expresse lawes they vpon great penalties forbid any to call in question the confession of faith of the Church 1 Cod. de sum trinit fid cath forbidding vt nemode capublicè contendere audeat neither doth the 2 Admonit de de lib. concord author of the admonition to the Churches of Saxonye allowe any such course as the libeller desireth nay his desire is that matters may bee discussed in some synode of learned men what shame then is it to deuise leude meanes to trouble the Church and falsly to impute them to those that neuer vsed them nor thought them conuenient the libeller therefore may do well hereafter to leaue to the wisedome of her Maiestie and the rest of the gouernors of the Church common wealth the composing of matters which is best wrought by good lawes and sharpe punishment that such as will not be answered with reason may like dizards bee corrected with rods wherein if he thinke himselfe dealt withall vniustly let him come forth when he will eyther in aduised or vnaduised writing his cause shal be prooued wicked and his consortes facts auowed punishable CAP. II. That there neuer was any gouernment by Church aldermen or supposed Ecclesiasticall Consistorie eyther vnder the lawe or in the Apostles times or after nor can without great iniurie to the Church of England to the Magistrates and others be admitted ALthough this positiō hath bene so fully 1 In the booke de presbyterio proued that neither T. Cartw. nor his schollers nor the whole packe of our aduersaries haue as yet made answere yet because the booke where the discourse is cōteined is in latine which percase thou vnderstandest not the argumēts lie dispersed so that without difficulty they cannot be gathered I wil here make a briefe of thē So shalt thou see what a cleare trueth this wise disputer thinketh to batter with vaine shew of mens opinions and be better resolued of the notorious vanitie of the consistoriall discipline That the Iewes had no meere ecclesiasticall consistory distinct frō the benches that handled ciuil causes these reasons may ascerteine vs. First there is no place of scripture where the institution of it may be found Those iudges that are mentioned Exod. 18 Deut. 17 are of an other sort for they heard all ciuil causes yea causes of blood inflicted ciuil punishmēts vpon offenders Those that are founde in the 11 of Numbers were of the princes counsel And other sorts of Collegiat Elders and Iudges are none found Let them shew them if they can the place of Leuiticus toucheth onely priestes in particuler and matters concerning their only office Further there appeareth no cōmission to haue bene giuē to any bēch of Iudges to determine ecclesiastical causes seuerally neither are there any lawes prescribed in Gods word to direct them by so that if any Iudged in such causes they proceeded both without authority and also direction which were very absurd to thinke for if God had appointed any such order of Iudges hee would no doubt haue giuen them authoritie and directions There appeareth not the lest step of any act of any such eccle siastical cōsistory through the whole scriptures or stories of the Iewes there is no memory found of thē in the time of Moses nothing vnder the iudges or kings or in the decay of the Iewish state not so much as the Sanedrin that condēned Christ to death is any precedent of the ecclesiastical cōsistorie whatsoeuer Beza can say to the cōtrary for it was the only remainder of the Iewish pollicy succeeded in the place of the counsell Numbers 11 and of the Iudges appointed Deut. 17 as is apparent by examination of the authority and acts of it All that authority which this ecclesiastical consistory is supposed to haue was either in thepriests or princes The princes in the time of Moses of the iudges kings made lawes and gaue souereign directiōs The priests iudged of things cleane vncleane executed caused al ecclesiasticall orders to be obserued 2. Chron. 19. exod 18. The priests Leuites appointed by the prince iudged of right wrong consecrated others to the functions of priesthood where was thē the ecclesiastical chimerical consistory all this while or how could it be supposed that others would encroch vpō the priestsoffice being debarred by Gods law not being mentioned in scripture or histories Neither are the ecclesiastical consistories commended for wel doing
sicke cannot bee prooued eyther by scriptures or fathers In Geneua the Deaconship is turned into a vaine office of Proctorship for the poore managed by men of base trades Why then doth he accuse others that is guilty himselfe Article 29 The Deacon must reade the Gospell in the day of his ordination putting on a tunicle but this vesture is scarcely knowen at this day Answere The booke of ordeyning of ministers printed Anno 1559. and confirmed by parliament hath no such matter And therfore vnlesse hee can shewe his author for his tunicle let him weare the tunicle together with his foure elbowed iacket himselfe But admit some piece of apparell were omitted in deacons yet is the fault not great nor to bee ascribed to any but to those that commit the same Article 30 The bishops at the ordination of ministers do tell them the weight of their charges and what labour they ought to take yet most of them are neuer resident Answere If they labour not as they shoulde doe let them bee punished If they bee absent for lawfull causes and at times why are they more blamed then the skittish puritanes that notwithstanding their charge are like malecontent and mutinous persons still wandring vp and downe to places where they haue nought to doe rather to trouble the state then to edifie the Church and rather hinder others labours by spreading of false doctrine and nouelties then helpe by teaching faith and maners Article 31 The lawe woulde haue them giue themselues to their function yet many attend ciuill and worldly affaires Answere If ciuill and ecclesiasticall causes bee so repugnant as is pretended why doe ministers gouerne their families or colledges or what hath T. Cartw. to meddle with the charge of his hospitall a matter meere ciuill and wherein he hath done more good then in ecclesiasticall causes For he hath bestirred himselfe so that what by rewardes what by auailes of his hospitall and pinching those that are committed to his charge and what by buying and selling the man is growen fatte and rich Of his ministery wee see no fruit but contention and trouble Percase hee will say hee is no minister But why then doth hee meddle with the ministers office like to him are his followers men verie stirring and busie in all matters of state howsoeuer this man misliketh them therin Contrariwise for subiectes to execute the commaundementes of the prince and to see their ministerie also discharged is commendable and not onely allowable The lawes of God and the lande allowe it Wherefore then shoulde hee maliciously condemne that which hee cannot disprooue Article 32 Bishops only excommunicate and suspend yet by the booke of ordering ministers euery one is to administer the discipline of Christ And Christ hath giuen the keyes equally Answere The lawe is misreported and misinterpreted For the words are that ministers shoulde minister discipline as this Church hath receiued it and so they doe And by discipline is admonition publicke and priuate and preaching and executing the ordinaries sentence vnderstoode That euery minister by law shoulde excommunicate or suspend others equally cannot bee prooued the keyes were giuen to the Church yet euery one doth not vse them equally the priests of the lawe were all partakers of the priesthoode yet might not all doe all things All were not Iudges nor gouernours nor looked to all things But these fellowes would haue an Anabaptistical equallity brought in that such as haue no merite to mount higher may bring downe others lower make them equall to themselues Both the wordes and practise of the lawe make against the libeller besides all this it woulde bee infinitely inconuenient and absurde if such armes as the Church censures were put in euery cockebrayned fellowes handling and such odde fellowes as the puritanes are made gouernours of the Church equall with the best Article 33 The Bishops Chapplaynes and Doctors vse not priuate admonition in their Cures Answere Many things the libeller affirmeth and prooueth nothing So that it should seeme he taketh pleasure in talking and calumniating But suppose they did not folow the course of puritanes in priuate and parlour admonitions paraphrases is not the office of the minister publike not priuate must he as these puritanes do creepe into womens closets or must he put his feete vnder euery marchant mans table their shriue them such admonitions as the office of ministers and lawes require they do vse The course of puritanes in their priuate exercises and paraphrases they take neither to be commaunded by law nor to bee suffred in reason for the manifold abuses of it and much more credite were it for the puritanes if they had neuer begunne their table sermons nor secrete conference and catechizations of other mens wiues and daughters Article 34 The bishops admit not preachers to preach without licence and make vnpreaching ministers and ordeine ministers without Cure and preach out of Apocrypha against law Answere Neither doe they herein against lawe nor reason For albeit ministers haue by their ordination power to announce the worde by reading yet is it not fitte that euery one should expond it but such as haue learning that is knowen by long experience and must bee testified by writing And good it were that many that take vpon them to preach were turned backe to read For they marre and abuse many good texts of scripture fill the peoples eares with nouelties and want discretion to profit them either in faith or maners Secondly they make none vnpreaching ministers but giue euerie one licence to announce the worde by reading and priuate admonition albeit not by publique exposition Neyther if they shoulde make ministers such onely as can breake the worde aright and are answerable to Saint Paules rules should they finde many such among the conceited sort that preach not Gods word but their owne conceits Thirdly it is not vnfit nor against lawe that men learned should be made ministers though presently they haue no cures nor doth the booke of making ministers condemne it For albeit the word congregation bee vsed yet nameth it no speciall congregation Finally it is not vsuall for any to chuse textes out of the Apocryphall Scriptures yet if any do so the offence is not great seeing for maners they are to bee read and hauing confirmation of Canonicall scriptures are to be receiued That which he saith of bishops that they take away letters of orders vpon euery supposed misdemeanour is vntrue For neither doe they offer it nor may they doe it by lawe Article 35 Seldome doe bishops at the time of their consecration vse Coapes and neuer vse they pastorall staues yet both required by law Answere Neyther Coapes nor pastorall staues are by lawe enioyned to bee vsed The booke of ordering ministers printed Anno 1559. shall witnesse with mee that I say trueth yet in mine opinion it were not amisse to vse pastorall staues if for none other cause yet to beate such
mouthed Libellers and enemies of the Ministerie professed doe call honest men it is not materiall I know none marieth but such as haue allowance sufficient of their choyce If they haue not let the offenders be corrected and not innocents be disgraced for others offence why they should be called forward I know not seing none is so forward in marrying as the Puritan sort of whom I knowe none that hath the gift of continencie but would they cease to disgrace others I could for my part be contēt they should vse their libertie prouided alwayes they make not too great post haste nor without regard and consideration of their future wiues qualities leape into sodaine mischiefe Article 44 The clergie people goe not in their habits and square caps Answere What do the Puritan people forsooth they square it out for the most part in new fashiond conceited apparel are all clad in Satin veluet and costly apparel and braue it like people of a new gouernment some for humility sake goe in flat caps others go like clownes in russet clokes well they may for their religion is a russet religion good for none but russet cotes such as fauour populer gouernment fitting none but our rusticall platformers whose maners are rude vnciuill that men go not more orderly this faction is cause which maketh warre against the ministery and by all meanes seeketh to offer them scorne Article 45 The Bishops Officials allow none to be absent from their owne parish vnlesse they will pay a Marke for a licence yet law suffreth men to heare Sermons other where Answere Law restraineth men to their owne parishes but lust would be gadding abroad to see what is done elswhere for which if any officials graunt licence contrary to lawe there is law to correct them but why this man should be so offended with taking money for licēces I see no cause seing his deare friēds yea himselfe too vseth more taking then giuing and considering that Pettifoggers Scriuanoes such as the authors of this booke seeme to be liue by taking take without licence and contrary both to licence and law and haue wonne more by taking then others by long seruice and for all their pretended hypocrisie will neither spend nor loose commoditie for their puritane cause why men should not be suffered to frequent factious sermons there be diuers causes it is the way to faction sectes heresie and tumults and diuers other disorders Article 46 Songs in Churches should be distinct and modest Answere So they are but the Libellers eares were percase so out of tune that he could not iudge when he heard them for how can his eares be in tune whose wits not long since were in so great discord In the opinion of all wise men that can iudge and haue skill our church musicke is distinct modest and graue and farre passing the discordant tunes of Puritans Article 47 None of the Queenes subiectes should call one another hereticke nor scismaticke but we are so called and Puritans too by certaine Libellers Answere Yea and that very iustly too if you mayntaine this Libell and your newe booke of prayers and their most seditious and hereticall pamphlets of T. C. and others neither are they Libellers in so calling you nor doeth the Iniunction protect factious mates but quiet and good subiects such as you will not shew your selues to be rayling and reuelling at Lawes and gouernours in most shamefull sort and therefore disdayne not to be called by your names nor wonder if you be beaten with your owne weapons Article 48 Bishops and their Chapleyns seldome make a legge at the name of Iesus vnlesse it be at the reading of the Gospell nor remember Iesus but when they lustily sweare by Iesus Answere All Puritans vtterly mislike this bowing at the name of Iesus this semypuritan and demychristian misliketh the omitting of it therein condemning all his companions as contumacious lawbreakers and not proouing any matter against his aduersaries for which both one and other haue cause to mislike him but especially for lying and slaundering of Gouernours wherein hee sheweth his full malice and choler in charging them and want of matter in conuincing them The Puritanes speake nothing without protesting doe you not call that swearing no it is forswearing for when they protest deepest then commonly they dissemble most and performe least yea many of these seeme with the Priscilianites to haue litle regarde of othes as appeareth by their examinations If he knew any of his aduersaries that offendeth in swearing I doubt not but they shoulde heare it Article 49 The Queene accompteth them good subiectes that acknowledge her Maiestie to be sole supreme gouernour ouer all her subiect in all her Dominions The Bishops doe not Answere If nothing els were to bee respected but this poynt then were all lesuites and Seminarie men and other traytors good subiectes for they doubt not to giue her the title of sole supreme Gouernour ouer all her subiects but that she hath authoritie to make Ecclesiasticall lawes and iudge in Ecclesiasticall causes and to appoynt Iudges and officers to iudge therein that no other hath power ouer her Maiestie neither Iesuites nor Puritans will confesse therefore vnlesse they acknowledge all the rest of her Maiesties prerogatiues and shewe more obedience to Lawes then hitherto they haue done they can not so easily scape the notes of disloyaltie Article 50 The Bishops haue not punished offendors against Iniunctions but are onely carefull to vrge subscriptions othes ex officio c. Answere If the Bishops haue not done their dueties why doest not thou make thy selfe party and accuse them they stand vpon their defence why commest thou not foorth in thy likenesse to charge them In the meane while take this answere that offences must first bee knowen and then punished and secondly that bishops haue suffered as fewe knowen offences to escape vnpunished as any other officers thirdly that those offences that tend to the ouerthrowe of the State are most narrowly looked vnto and lastly that he is a lewde mate that doeth picke quarrels with others for not executing those Lawes which himselfe doeth mislike As concerning their vrging of subscriptions and conuenting those that are disobedient to law the Bishops haue offended in nothing more then that they haue not bene more peremptorie in vrging them no State nor Gouernours euer suffered such notorious disloyaltie so long vnpunished Article 51 Bishops take extraordinarily for licences to preache contrarie to their owne aduertisements of licentious Preachers no licence is required Answere Shewe who they bee that take so much and who these licencious Preachers bee or els men will esteeme thee a licencious Libeller for mine owne part I knowe none more licencious then thy selfe and thy consortes which with all impunitie speake against Lawes and take to themselues libertie both to liue and beleeue as they list and for taking surpasse all other takers taking both from Church and
al men of learning 56 In the rules of French discipline it is enacted by the Synodicall assemblie that no Minister shall possesse landes houses or tythes wherein they declare that Ministers must liue on almes and their wiues and children be turned on begging what man then hath not good cause to detest this odious discipline that doeth not onely ouerthrowe the Ministerie but the mariage of Ministers also by a necessarie consequent 57 Finally to shut vp all in one Article these men if they be not looked into will ouerthrowe religion her Maiesties authoritie the honour of the state the rewardes of learning the studie of artes and diuinitie both the vniuersities the hope of vertue the lawes of England and many priuate mens interestes I woulde say the Church also but that euery man is desirous that the same may hee ruinated but let them that seeke the spoiles of others take heede that they be not afterwarde made a spoyle themselues It is a common saying 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and oftentimes the spoylers are spoyled If I shoulde prosecute the whole course of their proceedings and lay it downe in Articles as the Libeller hath begonne I shoulde but wearie you with needelesse repetitions as the Libeller hath done alreadie this is sufficient to shewe vnto you that we want not Articles against these fellowes whensoeuer their cause shall come to audience yea Articles materiall and concludent and farre vnlike to the friuolous and ridiculous Articles deuised by the Libeller His Articles haue no sequel Iudge I pray you and consider of them all of them tend to this ende to shewe that some of the Ecclesiasticall state haue offended against lawes in small trifles and are to be punished which were it granted yet doeth it not followe that a new gouernement is to be embraced and the state altered which is his principall desire and seeking Contrariwise our Articles doe shewe that both their gouernement is vniust and disordered and their opinions lewde and fantasticall and their practises seditious and therefore neither to be tollerated which is that which not onely we desire but the peaceable maintenance of the state requireth and enforceth And I doubt not but all those that giue themselues to the studie of lawes or other learning or fauour the state considering these matters will hereafter discerne who they are that would ouerthrowe her maiesties lawes and that not in vaine diuers haue gone about to withstand their lewd proceedings Hauing made an end of his Articles he declareth That his purpose was onely to redeeme her maiesties lawes from captiuitie of the clergie But he abuseth first his reader for his whole booke declareth that his purpose was rather to ouerthrowe lawes then to establishe them secondly the whole Ministerie of of the Church whom he chargeth with suppressing of lawes when all men knowe that their onely desire is that lawes may be executed He would also make them more base and odious and yet nothing can be more contemtible miserable then they haue made the whole ministerie by their odious practises For wealth and riches marchants artificers husbandmen commonly goe beyond thē Fewe leaue any thing behinde them they pay foure times more to her maiestie thē any state of mē that are most charged pay it most willingly They are wronged of euery man what would these men haue more vnlesse they seeke their liues how thē did he not shame to say that the clergie keepeth her maiesties lawes in captiuitie or how shamed he not to speake of captiuity seeing not they but the Lords of the cōsistorie keepe lawes ministers subiectes yea princes in captiuitie Trauers in his booke against Bridges doeth vaunt that they had alreadie brought diuers princes vnder their yoke and excommunicated them They say as the Pope said that they haue power to giue ouer all princes to satan to bring in their constitutions they would ouerthrowe all lawes their onely will against all lawes must preuaile He further calleth the Cleargie carnall worldlings He I say whose workes are fleshlie whofe consortes are swollen with surfet and whose portion is in this world calleth others carnall worldlings and as if he were in a bedlem fitt cryeth out in his lunatike stile O England England how long wilt thou endure these carnall worldlings A strange matter that such presumptuous companions should either dare or daring be suffered to raile against the whole Ministerie or that any that is in the Ministerie or toward it should fauour this faction that bendeth all their force against learned men and Ministers or finally that any should either imagine that these men did entend reformation or endure to heare such lewde companions to call themselues authors of reformation can malicious libelling seditious practises counterfect hypocrisie notorious crueltie exceeding pride and vanitie stand with reformation no no. and therefore let this libeller that desireth to haue faithfull true English hearted men to examine these things obteine his purpose and let them examine both the ecclesiasticall state and these hypocriticall pretenders of reformation what bribes they haue taken what extortion they haue committed what tenants they haue racked what they haue purchased what they haue spent in ryote what landes they haue receaued from their ancestors what they haue left to their successors what offices they haue borne what wrōgs they haue done I doubt not but all the factious sorte will soone repent them of this course especially when it shall be shewed that their heartes are scarce English that misliking all English lawes embrace a packe of outlandish vanities that they seeke nothing but the desolation both of church countrie the ouerthrowe of her maiesties lawes honor and the confusion of the vniuersities and all men of learning And thus much sufficeth to haue answered concerning the petitioners articles resteth nowe that I answere also his interogatories and questions that hee may bee the better satisfied and you may the better conceiue of the mans ignorance and malice If diuers things bee againe repeated and rubbed ouer blame not me but blame the babbling fellowe that drewe me to it seeing he obiecteth I could doe no lesse then answere you that haue heard his demaundes with patience heare I pray you my answere hee calleth himselfe Putcase vnder the name of Putcase you shall heare the summe of his demandes and questions CERTAINE QVESTIONS AND INTERROgatories Putcase drawen by a fauourer of reformation c. Wherein he desireth to bee resolued which the Printer hath thought good here to annexe THe course is very odious and not to be suffered Answere for if euery leud questioner might frame cases against religion or lawes neyther shall religion nor lawe maintaine due credite And if euery libeller might lawfully make demaunds sounding to the infamie of gouernours and magistrates and their doings bee traduced by infamous interrogatories it would worke in short time great hatred and confusion His first fault therefore is this that hee
curiously enquire if they were not too curious they woulde no more meddle with vs then wee doe with them At least they would remember that all Churches are equall if they say true As for the learned men that are named and others they may speake what they please of Popish apparell it concerneth vs nothing But that they haue condemned the apparell of ministers nowe vsed in Englande it cannot bee shewed of the most learned Nay the opinions of Bullinger Bucer Gualter and others are to bee shewed to the contrary Of the rest the authoritie is not so great as may weigh downe the orders of our Church without reason Finally what is seemely what not neyther Beza nor his followers are any iudges in matters concerning our Church In this Church this apparell is thought decent and therefore let the newfangled Disciplinarians weare their Flat-caps and Russet clokes and goe disguized like good fellowes that come from the Cart or from the market and so content themselues Why wee should refuse our ancient orders or followe them in their newe fooleries as yet wee see no reason Quaere if Maiors Bailiffes Stage players and others Put-case Quest 5. may not as well be forced to subscribe to the Bishops three Articles by the statute of 1. Elizab. c. 1. as Ministers seeing the Statute vrged by Doctor Bridges to that purpose doeth reache to them as well as Ministers This is a Question put to disgrace subscription Answere by a man that neyther alloweth the Queenes supremacie nor Cōmunion booke nor Articles of religion And therefore he iumbleth bishops maiors stageplayers together setting forth his follie as it were on a stage for which if he had his desert he would be brought to play a part on another kind of stage Why ministers not these should subscribe the reason is for that they teach others must be knowen to be sound of religion the others teache not And the same is confirmed by diuers lawes and practise of all Churches neyther doeth Doctor Bridges giue the least occasion for him to ground his doubt vpon him Surely a Stageplayer may easily shewe more wit and modestie then this pild Put-case Quaere Put-case Quest 6. whether Bishops vpon occasion prescribing certain prayers to be said besides the prayers in the Communion booke doe not offend against their owne Articles and the Statute of publike Prayer and ought not therefore to deale more mercifully with their brethren offending in like qualitie A profound question Answere yet of no man asked but of those that sinne of malice for who knoweth not that the statute of publike prayer prouideth against the malicious contemners of the Communion booke such as the Papists Puritans are who thinke they can conceiue extemporall prayers farre passing the reach of that booke and bring in newe Liturgies and not against such as allowe that booke defende it and vse it and onely adde some Prayers according to the diuersitie of occasions and tymes being also authorized thereto by her Maiestie and doing the same according to Lawe But this wicked fellowe is loath that any shoulde pray for the Queene or against the Spaniardes els would hee not condemne it Put-case Quest 7. Whether are not the Questions and Answeres at the baptizing of Infants in the Communion booke like to the questions of the Marcionites that baptized the quicke for the dead Chrysost in 1. Corinth 15. one answering from vnder the bed where the dead lay The last Interrogatorie was for the Communion booke Answere this is against it of so contrary pieces this worke is wrought But if the Put-case that framed this question meane to proue any thing he must shewe some better reason For there is not like reason in answering for Infantes for dead men Those are to bee baptized these not those haue sayth in habite these are passed Neyther is it strange if he that vndertaketh for the childes education doeth answere for it The Ceremonie is ancient and not lightly to bee esteemed vnlesse like to these newfangled Innouators wee meane to bidde warre to all Antiquitie and playnely with them to runne into manifolde new heresies Quaere whether with safe conscience Put-case Quest 8. a man may subscribe to the Communion booke that it conteineth nothing contrary to scriptures seeing the translation of the Psalmes differeth from the trueth of the Hebrewe in 200 places or more It is out of question Answere that the Consistorian faction denyeth not to subscribe to that booke because of the faults in the translation of Psalmes but for other matters which they would hide vnder this goodly glosse for by the like reason they might denie to subscribe to the Bible seeing the Geneuian Bible doth differ much from the originall text yet they vse and imbrace it and haue none other diuinitie then the Geneuian phrase Further I say that it is not the meaning of those that require subscription to confirme eyther errours of translation or of the print and therefore they doe but cauill without cause and obiect this without ground But suppose the intendment of subscription were strictly to tye men to the wordes of that booke whether they were well couched or not yet will it not fall out in reckoning that there are moe faultes in the translation of the Psalmes then in the Geneuian Bible Whether there bee or no this Put-case cannot tell for hee vnderstandeth not the tongue neither shall his companions euer bee able to iustifie either two hundred or one fault contrary to the analogie of faith Quaere whether it be agreeable to Gods worde or lawe Put-case Quest 9. to punish Libellers with returne of Libels Ribauldry c. and whether Martin offending in Libelling they offend not that made the Almond for Parrat Martins moneths minde c. Whatsoeuer those did that answered Martins ribauldry-bookes Answere they did it of their owne heads without either knowledge or allowance of their superiors and therefore let them answere themselues and I doubt not but they will answere reason for it is nothing so great a fault to answere as to make challenge And further they will say their bookes be very honest and ciuil in respect of Martins Atheistical Libels For he rayleth against lawes against gouernours and against men in authoritie they reuell onely against Martin and his barking curres and according to their reache doe speake for the lawes Hee wickedly sporteth with religion and matters of State these only play with Martins dizardry and his dizardlike companions If this Questioner reply and aske why are they not called in it may be answered that if he wil make himselfe party shew any thing in them against religion or law they wil be called in yea some of them haue bene called in and others of a more biting stile and nature haue bene stayed If he can shew no such thing it will be thought that this kind of vaine cōsidering the intolerable pride
haughtinesse of that faction is fittest to answere such scurrilous Puritans and so fit it seemed to me that if some had not thought otherwise I would also haue commended this Petition with the Articles and Interogatories annexed to their answering for such biting stuffe is to be answered by those that wil rebite againe First then I answere that the bookes which were written against Martin are more tolerable wittie then Martin although they were not allowed secondly that it is as absurd for Libellers to complayne of Libelling as dogges that byte of byting those that goe to warres in this sort must looke for blowes againe And lastly that not onely Martins madde deuises but also this Sycophantes writings are against lawe yea against common humanitie Quaere Put-case Quest 10. of Math. Sutcliffe who is alwayes carping at master Cartwrightes purchase why master Cartwright may not sell the Landes hee had from his father and buy other with the money as well as some of the Bishops who by Briberie Simonie Extortion Racking of Rent wasting of Wooddes and such like Stratagemes waxe riche and purchase great Lordships for their posteritie Seeing you aske of me this question Answere I take my selfe bound to answere you especially hauing vndertaken to answere many other questions as impertinent and bad as this Pleaseth it then master Put-case to vnderstand that I doe not carpe alway no nor once at master Cartwrights purchase Let him purchase and buy at pleasure I hinder him not I enuie him not Onely thus much I must tell him as I did once that Tho. Cartwright a man that hath more Landes of his owne in possession then any Bishop that I knowe and that fareth dayntily euery day and feedeth fayre and fatte and lyeth as soft as any tenderling of that broode and hath wonne much wealth in shorte time and will leaue more to his posteritie then any Bishop should crye out eyther of persecution or of excesse of Bishops liuings whose pouertie I might but I will not disclose Secondly that hee is a most happy man that with selling a cottage and so much ground as would scarse grase three goslings worth at the vttermost but twentie Nobles yeerely can purchase two or three hundred markes land and gladly would I learne that secrete Thirdly that seeing hee hath such authoritie with a packe of Sots that follow him that euery word of his should be deemed good lawe there is no reason why he should cōplayne of the superioritie that is in our gouernours and yet continue his bitter inuectiues against the State As long as he repenteth not himselfe of the wrong that hee hath offred to the church nor renounceth his fond conceits of discipline nor forbeareth to maintaine a confederacie to reuel against al such as are well affected to the State he must looke not onely to bee carped at but also to be launced if hee be not otherwise dealt withall If he keepe himselfe priuate and seeke not to aduaunce himselfe by pillage of the Church I for my part will let him alone neyther shall his Frierlike begging nor his couetous dealing with his Hospitall nor his disloyall dealing with his good friendes nor his Vsurie nor any other matters bee touched or carped at To the question therefore I answere that it is neyther lawfull for Tho. Cartwright nor for Bishoppes to waxe riche and purchase by Extortion and Briberie no nor Vsurie nor Friponnerie nor by any vnlawfull practise And therefore if hee knowe any Bishops that hee can charge with Simonie Briberie Extortion Racking of Rentes Wasting of woods c. let him name them I defende them not Onely thus much I say that for one whome hee can prooue guiltie among his aduersaries there will bee found twentie among his friendes most guilty viz. Pillers of the people Raueners of the poore and Spoylers of their countrey and among these certaine Quidammet companions liuing all by scraping of quilles that haue by force and fraude wonne great wealth besides other Pettifoggers and parasites that haue purchased more then any bishop in England and yet not so much as this Putcase for he may percase purchase to himselfe a gibbet for reuelling at lawes and gouernours at least hee may purchase shame for abusing men of honour so shamefully Quaere Putcase Quest 11. whether the Bishops that affirme it is vnlawfull to giue Liuings appoynted to Ministers to Lay men and Doctor Bridges affirming that a Priest is Lord of her Maiestie or Doctor Bancroft that affirmeth her Maiestie to be a Petit-Pope do not diffame her Maiestie and be not therefore Felons Answere The slaunderous and shamelesse reportes and opinions of the Puritans concerning the thinges touched in this question I haue refelled before Nowe it will bee sufficient to say that this Sycophant belyeth these good men and if hee bee not therefore a Felon yet is hee a lying companion and vnlesse hee vse the matter better hee will neyther cleare himselfe of Felony nor Treason For he and his companions are most guilty in those crimes which he would impute to others They teach that things once 1 Complaynt of the comminaltie c. 6. consecrate to God for the seruice of the church belong to him for euer Appropriations the spoyle of Abbey lands they call 2 Admonit p. 33. sacriledge Vnto the reuenues of the church they challenge immunitie impositions laid vpon them they call 3 Eccles disciple p. 87. impietie barbarisme Martin saith that they which challenge ecclesiasticall superioritie such as the Queene hath are Petie-Popes all of them doe teach that Princes are subiect to the iurisdiction of the Consistory which things how they may be taught by good subiects I do think our platformers wil take some large time to declare Quaere whether those that say Put-case Quaest 12. the oath of supremacie importeth that her Maiestie may deuise what gouernment she pleaseth be not malicious persons and those that yeelde to the oath with the exposition good subiectes Who be malicious persons Answere and who be good or disloyall subiects appeareth in part by this treatise but especially by the disloyall and malicious treatises and practises of Puritans and therefore this is a vayne and doltish question The Iniunctions surmisse those to bee malicious which thinke that a Popedome is attributed to her Maiestie by the worde of supremacie such are the Papistes and the Puritan hypocrites for both doe holde that we doe and may aswell giue vnto her authoritie to preach minister the sacraments as the poynts of her supremacie The law reputeth none for good subiects but those that acknowledge the seueral points of her Maiesties supremacy as power to make ecclesiasticall lawes to appoynt ecclesiasticall Commissioners so forth which the Puritans denie and therefore by lawe and the Iniunctions they are reputed malicious persons That any man did say her Maiestie might simply doe as shee list in gouernment of the church is not
directions Neither is the inquisition which we haue deriued from the pope but vsed of al nations contrariwise the inquisition of the cōsistorie is like to the Spanish inquisition the papal proceeding For as in the Spanish inquisition so in the consistorie a man is called knoweth no accuser and whether hee confesse or not hee is sure to abide the order of the consistorie and what they command the ciuill Iudge performeth And therefore if all must away whatsoeuer is borowed from the pope away must the consistorie goe and their excommunication of princes and their absolute tyrannie Quaere if Christ were before the bishops should answere Putcase Quaest 17. beeing demanded of his doctrine I spake openly c. Aske them that hearde me whether he should be committed as M. Bambridge M. Iohnson and other godly ministers This question touching Iohnson and Bambridge concerneth the ecclesiasticall state nothing at all Answere For their cause was heard and ended at Cambridge before the Vicechanceller and his assistants so that it should seeme to bee a case put besides the cause in handling But in the same wee may see that these fellowes meane no lesse to ouerthrow the state priuiledges and iurisdiction of the Vniuersities then of the bishops Marke it therefore you my masters of the Vniuersities These fellowes whom you foster in your bosomes meane to touch your freehold also neither can they conceale their malice against all men of learning To answere this absurd question I say that I cannot chuse but wonder that any shoulde bee so blasphemous and wicked as to compare Christ Iesus the sonne of God vnto Iohnson a factious companion and a wicked heretike Out of Cambridge hee was expulsed for his mutinous Sermon and other leude behauiour From thence he went to Middleborough a retrait of such kinde of fellowes There hee declined into Barrowisme wherein hee now continueth hauing augmented his opinions with many newe fancies of his owne Bambridge a man somewhat wiser then Iohnson yet neyther to be compared with Christ nor any verie discreete or modest Christian Christ neuer declaimed against the state of priests nor did hee spreade newe doctrines nor did he spurne against gouernours These haue done al these things and it is the cōmon practise of all such as bee of this sort Christ did not refuse to answere directly and confessed that he was the sonne of God These stand not vpon their innocencie but vpon tearmes of lawe Neyther doth the example of our Sauiour fit them For hee being asked of his doctrine in generall coulde not otherwise answere then in generall These refuse to answere in particular poyntes which he did neuer and therefore iustly were committed A matter iustifiable both by the lawes of God also the lawes ciuill canon and common If being to answere in the Starre Chamber or Chancerie vnto certaine articles they shoulde answere That they deliuered nothing but publikely and will the examiner to aske them that heard and saw they would bee sent to other places to aduise vpon the matter Further I say it will not fall out in proofe that those men which haue bene conuented before the high Commissioners in causes ecclesiastical are either godly or wise or ministers therefore false it is that he affirmeth them to bee godly ministers and very scandalous to the state whom he setteth forth as a state persecuting Christ Iesus whereas in deed these men by defacing the Church and the gouernours thereof by teaching of erronious doctrine and by raising of stirres about a new gouernment which was neuer heard of in Christs Church do shew themselues enemies of Christ of his Church and of his Gospel and therefore together with Iohnson of whom themselues are now ashamed to bee cast out of the Church vnlesse they shew more signes of amendment Quaere Putcase Quaest 18. if by the iudiciall lawes by the Court in Chauncerie or Starre Chamber any man be forced to sweare before hee knowe the cause at least in generall whereunto he is to take his oath Suppose a man should graunt so much Answere albeit the vse be not alwayes so what will he conclude That the high commissioners proceede contrarie to lawe His purpose is so to doe but his argument will not so conclude vnlesse he shewe that they doe not also declare in generall the summe of the matter to which euery one is to answere But that he cannot doe and therefore I returne him backe to his prompters to frame his case better and doe reiect him as alledging matters not concludent In the meane while let him vnderstand thus much that the proceeding of Ecclesiasticall courtes in exacting of othes is not onely confirmed by all lawes but also by the practise of Geneua the patriarchall sea of puritans Quaere whether Bishops be not bound to confirme children Putcase Quest 19. aswel as Ministers to marrie with a Ring And whether may not popish young men not being confirmed refuse the Communion He would conclude Answere that because Bishops neglect some part of their duetie it is lawfull for his consortes to breake all lawes but the sequele is naught That children are not confirmed the fault is in parents that bring them not of these seducers that preach against confirmation not in Bishops And therefore if any refuse to receiue the Communion it is no reason he shoulde receaue benefite by his owne negligence but rather be punished for both faultes In that he ioyneth popish young men together with fantasticall young Ministers which refuse to marrie with the Ring he doeth not amisse for they doe both consent in oppugning the state and therefore are both to be punished neither will the pleading of the Bishops negligence if any be serue either of them Quaere Putcase Quest 20. whether an Ecclesiasticall Iudge may punish Bristowe for writing that our Communion booke is an apish imitation of the Masse-booke seeing the statute giueth onely that authoritie to Iustices of peace and whether Bristowe deprauing the Communion booke may be depriued of all his spirituall promotions for his first offence c. Item whether the lawe doeth not fauour the puritan as much as the papist The case is absurdly put Answere for it supposeth matters vnprobable as that Bristowe should haue certein spiritual promotions in England had onely offended in speaking against the Communion booke whereas the man did wilfully flye out of his countrie for his mislike of the state and practised diuers treasons and for the same being apprehended committed to prison died there Onely this thing is herein commendable that puritans papistes are very fitly ioyned together in this case Both deny the supremacie alike both depraue the gouernmēt-alike both rayle against our Communion booke alike and therefore that all may be alike both deserue to be vsed alike To the question I answere That the lawe accepteth not of persons but whether Th. Cartwright or Penrie or Bristowe or Allen
tooke for the establishing of theirs 51 Quaere whether T. Cartw. and his fellowes haue not assembled in synodes and conuenticles 2 Examinations in the starre chamber and their own confessions there enacted and decreed certaine rules and orders contrary to her Maiesties lawes and subscribed them and procured others to subscribe them and by all meanes possible gone about to put the same in practise and to discredite and disgrace the lawes of her maiestie and ancient gouernement of the Church Quaere whether in their saide 3 Disciplina sacra orders which they call holy discipline all authoritie in Church causes is not taken from the Christian magistrate and giuen to their assemblies in so much that the magistrate is not so much as mentioned when they talke of their new gouernement and how the sufferance of these proceedinges may stand with the maiestie of a prince or with good gouernment 53 Quaere whether they doe not 1 T.C. pag. 162 163 417. discours of eccl discip pag. 148. 174. holde that the authoritie which they challenge to their elderships and synodes by their said platformes of discipline is neyther increased nor diminished whether the prince bee Christian or heathen and teach not that the authoritie of a Christian and heathen prince is all one in ecclesiasticall causes 54 Quaere 2 That is in part euident by their confessions in the Starre chamber whether Cartwright and his adherentes haue not put the greatest part of their discipline in practise without her Maiesties consent and authoritie and without the sayde authoritie haue not both made secrete meetings and established diuers orders and broched new opinions all contrary to the doctrine confession and gouernement of the Church of England 55 Quaere by what presumption he durst do these things and why hee is not to bee brought publikely to submit himselfe for his faults 56 Quaere whether the same seditious proceedings bee not condemned in certaine actes made in the parliament holden Anno 1584 at Edenborough 57 Quaere 3 In his examinations in the Starre chamber whether Th. Cartwright sware truely in the Starre chamber when hee affirmed on his oath that hee neuer affirmed or allowed that in euery Monarchie there ought to bee certaine magistrates like the Spartaine Ephori with authoritie to depose the king c. seeing the same poynt is in Fenners booke of diuinity which one Th. Cartwr in his Epistle printed before the booke doth highly commende as a profound piece of diuinity and heauenly axiomes and doctrine and whether if some other had so sworne they should not haue bene accounted periured persons and whether by the rules of discipline it bee lawfull for the edification of the consistorie to sweare falsely 58 Quaere 4 Examinations in the Starre chamber published whether haue not T.C. and his fellowes confessed on their oathes that notwithstanding all the care that hath beene taken for the perfecting of their platformes of discipline they are not yet resolued vpon diuers poyntes and whether they did wisely to subscribe such orders or duetifully to animate certaine gentlemen of meane vnderstanding in diuinitie to present such a confused platforme of gouernment to the parliament that it might bee confirmed and receiued throughout the whole Realme and finally whether wisedome will permit men to dissolue a state alreadie setled and to embrace a gouerment whereupon the authours themselues are not yet resolued nor I thinke neuer will bee and wherein others see notorious absurdities imperfections and iniustice 59 Quaere 1 Ibid. whether T.C. and his companions doe not say vpon their othes that they meant to haue bene suiters to her Maiestie and the parliament for the approbation and receiuing of their draught of discipline before mentioned and subscribed vnto by them as a perfect plat of Church gouernement commanded by Gods worde doe not vtterly disclaime by a most necessarie implication her Maiestie to haue any preheminence and authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes by the word of God seeing they doe not giue any authoritie in their perfect platforme to the ciuill magistrate but yeelde all that power to their synodes classes and consistories 60 Quaere whether Cartwr and some of his fellowes and followers were not acquainted with the conspiracie of Hacket 1 Conspiracy for reformation Coppinger and Arthington and whether they knewe not that these fellowes or some of them pretended to haue an extraordinary calling which mooued them to attempt matters which might proue very dangerous to themselues whether also they knew not that the actions which they purposed to attempt by vertue of their calling did tende to their deliuerance out of prison and to the aduancing of the holy cause as they tearmed it and thereupon at Coppingers motion did holde a puritane fast wherein prayers were made to this effect that God woulde giue successe to all such meanes as shoulde bee attempted for the deliuerance of the Saintes of God and for the setting vp of their discipline and whether T. Cartw. and the wiser sort of them did not vnderstand whereto the foresaid allobrogicall and outlandish propositions of extraordinary callings did tend and finally whether all these points being such as in part haue and may fully bee prooued against them they haue not bene mercifully dealt withall and farre aboue their desertes that they haue not hitherto bene called therefore in question 61 Quaere whether Cartw. and his fellowes challenging to their eldership authority to excommunicate princes are not like to prooue as dangerous subiectes as Sanders Parsons or Card. Allen are in maintaining the popes excommunication of her Maiestie and whether it is not likely considering the inconstancie of their discipline and resolutions that although some of them pretend now to holde that excommunication doth not take away ciuill subiection they will notwithstanding for their aduantage teach contrary to their present resolutions 62 Quaere whether some one of the reformed 1 Buchanan de iure regniapud Scot. pag. 70. brotherhood haue not mainteyned in bookes printed that princes standing excommunicate may bee put to death and that when princes will not reforme religion subiects ought to do it and that saint 2 Buchan ibid. pag. 56. 57. Paules precepts of obedience to tyrants bind no further then vntil such time as the people is strong inough to resist be able to master them by force of armes 63 Quaere whether Sanders Rosse Allen and other papistes doe not in the behalfe of poperie maintaine the very same poyntes of rebellion together with Goodman Whittingham Knoxe and their teachers Beza Hotoman Buchanan and whether both factions haue not made princes subiect to the people and populer furie and taught the same doctrine of the beginning of the authoritie of princes the papistes seeking to erect their papacy the disciplinarians endeuouring to set vp their papall presbyterie 64 Quaere whether some of the doctors of this new discipline doe not mislike with the