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A41591 An amicable accommodation of the difference between the representer and the answerer in return to his last reply against the papist protesting against Protestant popery. Gother, John, d. 1704. 1686 (1686) Wing G1325A; ESTC R201691 19,896 44

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them or no They profess'd a hatred to Image-worship in the beginning for the more plausibly turning the Papists out of doors when they pursu'd them with the Commination in their old Common-Prayer-Books of Cursed be all Worshippers of Images but afterwards succeeding to the Errors of the Papists as well as to their Revenues they no longer dar'd to curse the Worshippers of Images knowing the Curse would light upon their own Heads but instead of that reform'd their Prayers and have it now Cursed are ye Idolaters 4. They worship Saints and Angels For see Beloved besides the building Churches to the Honour of their Names and setting up their Pictures in them which are as great external Acts of Worship and Religion as can be they likewise set Days apart to honour them as God has his Day set apart they command their Vigils to be kept and have Prayers in their Honour not questioning but that they can Pray for as many as they know upon Earth Nay they likewise pray for and depend upon their Assistance Help and Protection but especially of the Angels as you may see in their Common-Prayer Books where on the Day of Michael they beg to be defended by the Angels as if God who is Almighty were not able to defend them that they should thus seek shelter under the Angels Wings Is not this to leave God and his Christ and to make Gods of Creatures Oh! such abomination as this is not to be endured 't is intolerable Beloved For these Churches in their honour Days in their honour Images in their honour and Prayers in their honour is paying to them Divine Honours 't is worshipping them as Gods For mark ye now all Civil Honour is terminated on the visible things of this World and we have no intercourse with the invisible Inhabitants of the other World but what is Religious now if all Worship of invisible Beings is Divine and Religious Worship what abominable Idolatry are our blind Brethren faln into who by this Religious Worship make as many Gods as there are Angels and Saints in Heaven 5. They practice Idolatry again in receiving the Sacrament for though they allow this to be only Bread and Wine yet they pay it Religious Worship and honour it as God by falling down to it on their Knees They may say they do not this to the Bread and Wine But what must we not believe our Senses in so plain a Case Do we not see them do it with our Eyes And let them pretend what they please their Practice is the best explication of their Belief 6. They use a Book of Prayers which is nothing but a ship of the Mass 'T was call'd a Mass-Book when it came first to light and tho' it has since reform'd its Name for the better imposing upon poor Souls yet the Nature of it is still the same The Epistles and Gospels and Collects and Litanies and Hymns are nothing but Terms of Babylon And pray now what are the Vigils Ember-days Rogation-days Ashwednesday Epiphany Sexagesima Quinquagesima Septuagesima is not all this the Language of the Beast Yea Beloved from the abundance of the Heart the Mouth speaketh as their Language is such is their very Heart and Soul they delight in an unknown Tongue and one may as well understand the Mass as this Language of the Common-Prayer Book Then look in the Calendar of the Common-Prayer and there you 'l find the Mass-Saints stand in their Order March shews you Gregory the Pope and Benedict the Monk April has George that kill'd the Dragon the follow Dunstan that catch'd the Devil by the Nose and stickl'd for the Celebacy of the Clergy and Augustin that brought Popery into this Nation and thus their Saints are listed as in the Mass-Book and as the Demy-Gods were in the Calendar of the Heathens Then if you listen to them in this their Devotion you will not think them to be an Assembly of Christians but rather a Confusion of Misbelievers of all sorts of Infidels met in a Club There you 'l hear them with the Persians crying out to the Sun with the Aegyptians to the Whale to all the Fishes and Beasts with the Chaldeans to the Fire with the Syrians to the Birds and with the Papists too to Ananias Azarias and Misael Dead Men Men that cannot hear them and this in all their Churches as if these their Saints were like God himself present in all Places And this Devotion is call'd the Canticle of Benedicite taken out of the Apocrypha which with them you may see passes for very good Scripture So that the whole Common-Prayer Book if not worse is nothing but the mass-Mass-Book in English And all the difference is that the Missal is of an Ancient standing us'd even in Basil and Chrysostom's time But our Common-Prayer Book never knew light till 't was devis'd under Edward VI. And how many Alterations has it had in this time Some made by King Edward himself some by Queen Elizabeth and several others since Nay have we not seen Prayers added to this Book in Thanksgiving for the Discovery of and Deliverance from a Plot which now every considering Man has reason to believe to have been no more than a Chimera and the Invention of Bad Men 7. They make Gods of Men attributing to them a Power of Forgiving Sins the incommunicable Attribute of the Almighty and this is plain in their Liturgy in which their Priests are order'd to give Absolution to Sinners 8. They encourage a Death-bed Repentance permitting their Members to live as extravagantly as they please all the time of their Health and not a word of Confess and Repent but when Death is waiting for them at their Beds-Head They have a Power to give Absolution they say and their never enjoyning it but in the last Agony is Argument enough to conclude there 's no obligation of Repenting amongst them till Death looks 'em in the Face 9. They know not what their Belief is touching this Power of Absolution Some of their Divines affirm That the Sentence by which Absolution is given to the Penitent is an Absolute and Definitive Sentence judicially absolving him from the Guilt of his Offences Others of their Doctors say That the Form of Absolution is Declarative rather than Absolute and think it a rashness to pronounce a Definitive Sentence in Gods Name And thus tho' their Faith be all pretended to be according to the Word of God yet 't is wonderful hard to know what it is and whilst they thus disagree amongst themselves how can any embrace their Creed who know not what they believe themselves 10. They dispense with Vows and dissolve the Obligation of such as are made even to God himself Thus you see when any Priest Jesuit or Fryar comes over to their Church tho' they have solemnly vow'd their Virginity to God and promised to the Almighty never to Marry yet they are no sooner made a Member of this Reform'd Congregation
one thing and now of late 't is become another and if right then I wonder how it can be right now Thus you see their Church alter and change according to the Complexion of the Times And not only in these things but in a thousand others nay in the very Articles of their Belief The Apostles Creed had never more than Twelve Articles and the assenting to these were enough to make a Christian but to make a Church of England Christian at first 't was requir'd to Subscribe to Forty two Articles and then a little after something was bated and 't was enough to subscribe to Thirty nine and in these there was so much chopping and changing both in Words Expressions and Sentences that even the Bishop of Meaux's Exposition never had more before it came to perfection These are the Marks my Dearest ones of that Congregation to which you are so earnestly invited to joyn but let those joyn with her that can those that can find a way to dispense with all their Sense and Reason and admit of Prophanation and Superstition and Idolatry for the Word of God But for us We have the Scripture and our Reason for our Guides and we need no better and we have no surer way of avoiding the Teeth of the Dragon than to keep out of the reach of his Tail If a Zealous Brother I say should in this manner paint out the Church of England to his Flock and endeavour to imprint in their Minds an Idea thus Foul and Monstrous of her teaching and maintaining abominable Superstitions and Idolatries I would fain know of the Answerer Whether this would be Representing or Misrepresenting the Church of England whether 't would be a shewing her as she is or as she is not I know according to his Principles the Charges being not false as to matter of Fact and none being urg'd without some Reason this Character ought not to be Entitled The Church of England Misrepresented And yet methinks I cannot fancy 't will be thought like her But however it be I am resolv'd to compound and not quarrel upon this score If he will not have this to be Misrepresenting in its strict and proper sense I am ready to allow that the word Misrepresented as it stands in the Title of my Book is not to be taken in its strict and proper sense as it signifies Calumniating by Perjury only and Lies such as was the Story of the Pilgrims Screw'd Guns and Black Bills for the hanging of the Jesuits and that of Stifling Sir Edm. Godfrey with a Pillow in the upper Court of Somerset-House and Strangling him in the lower Court before the Stables with a twisted Handkerchief and laying it on the Papists But in a less rigorous Signification as it implies the Representing a thing otherwise than it is and putting on false Colours whether by Wry Interpretations False Inferences Malicious Applications Weak Reasonings or any such like Topick For by whatsoever Method the thing is made to appear otherwise than it is 't is all the Misrepresenting I desire and equally fit for my purpose And now I have so far comply'd with the Answerer I hope the Talk of Misrepresenting as he says will be over And yet if he has a mind to prove once more in other ten Sheets That Misrepresenting is not to be taken in its strict and proper sense let him do it 't is only Twelve-pence apiece more for the Curious The Judicious will think it only worth a Smile if so much But I am yet in Arrears and must not part thus For it seems the Answerer has a Complaint against me and 't is this pag 3. That in my last Reply instead of defending my own Misrepresentations which I so unjustly father'd upon them I have pick'd up new Misrepresentations for him to Answer And really I was much to blame to look out for new Misrepresentations when he had little to say against the former except that they were not to be call'd Misresentations in a strict sense But where did I father 'em upon any body I laid them at no bodys door and if some appear'd so solicitous in clearing themselves that they were suspected to be Fathers they may thank themselves I pointed at none 'T is true for the shewing they were none of my own Childish Conceits I at length produc'd some eminent Protestants describing Popery with the same ill Features and worse than I had drawn it in my Character of a Papist Misrepresented and first the Archbishop of York And here the Quarrel is because I left out the Authorities mention'd by that Prelate And now the Answerer has inserted those Authorities what do they make to his purpose or against me Were they all exact and true which yet no Man will be able to make good is every thing to be set forth for the Faith of a Church which can be found in one Author as it is by him when he prefixes to them a He that is the Papist must believe Can the Church of England stand this Test Would it not be Misrepresenting her to Preface every extravagant Saying of her Members with She believes and She teaches What signifie therefore the mentioning those Authors when the Question is not What some Private Authors say but what the Church believes When the Archbishop therefore brings in the Papist professing his Faith with this solemn Protestation We must believe and then supports the Paradox with a single Authority or two as this was in him a piece of Artifice not justifiable amongst Friends so the omission of such Testimonies was beyond the possibility of being a Design unless it were of Consulting the Credit of the Prelate And tho' the Books mention'd were publish'd by Authority of Superiors yet from such Books cannot be fairly Represented the Faith of the Church and whosoever pretends to do it is nothing less than a Misrepresenter Nor will a Church of England-Man I fancy much question this Truth who I believe upon consideration will allow that his Church may be easily Misrepresented if every idle Opinion to be pick'd out of Books which come forth with an Imprimatur were to be inserted into the Character of her Faith And I cannot but wonder the Answerer should urge this Dispute now at this time when we have seen a Book Publish'd by Authority of Pope Cardinals and other Dignitaries and in a particular manner approv'd by them and yet question'd by some as not Representing the Faith of the Church aright Methinks when a Book of this Authority comes to be disputed as not truly Representing I cannot understand how every other Author with a petty Licence is a sufficient ground for a Representer But it must be so to drive the Business on When a Protestant shews forth the Church of Rome every thing that can be rak'd out of Books is authentick enough for him to put into the Character but when a Catholick Prelate Expounds the Doctrine of his Church all the Authority of Pope
Beloved out of the Swing of his Tail Oh he has a long Tail Beloved a long Tail and do ye mark me now there 's as much Poison in his Tail as in his very Teeth I must explicate to you this Mystery The Dragon's Seat is upon the Top of the Hills and the poor Papists lie under his very Nose There are some others who have had thoughts of withdrawing themselves from this Place of Iniquity and have stepp'd a little aside but could never yet bid Adieu to their Captivity and these are such who call themselves Men of the Church of England who tho' they have retir'd a little from the Top of the Hill and are got from under the Dragon's Feet yet they are not the half-way down but stick in the way and are as much under the Power of the Dragon as if they were under his very Belly For mark ye Beloved he has such a Sweep with his Tail that as many as are on the Sides of the Hills are still under his Command and breath nothing but the Air of the Dragon Smell to 'em a little my dearest Saints and you 'l soon perceive them rank with Popery and that their Delight is in the Fopperies and Abominations of the Whore and their Marks are the Marks of the Beast For see what they are behold their Character Beloved 1. They allow and maintain an intolerable Pride in their Prelates setling on them large Revenues and State contrary to the Example of the Apostles who were poor and humble and by the Work of their Hands got Bread for themselves and their poor Neighbours And these Prelates are verily nothing but Popish Prelates and are commanded by their Church to wear the Miter and the Crosier and the Cope the most solemn Rags of the Whore and tho' they generally dissemble this Popery in their Life-time excepting only on their Coaches so to try if they can gain us yet you may see their Claim to it at their Death there being scarce any of 'um buried but with the Miter and Crosier on their Tombs 2. They make Gods of Dead Men erecting Churches in their Honour and Dedicating them to their Names Nay they honour them more than God himself of the Hundred and thirty seven Parish-Churches of the Weekly-Bill of London there being only Five in Honour of Christ or the Blessed Trinity And how much they honour the Virgin Mary more than Christ you may see in the same Weekly Bills in which Mary has Nineteen Churches Dedicated to her Name and Christ only Three And is not this to place Mary above Christ and to make a Goddess of her Is not this to worship her more than God For what more Sovereign and Divine Honour can there possibly be paid to any than to raise Temples and Churches to their Names This is an Honour and Worship to which all others of Bowing Kneeling and Praying are much inferiour For these Actions we lawfully use to Creatures we Bow and Kneel to our Prince and by humble Petitions beg his Assistance But to build Temples and Churches to the Honour and Name of any Creature is Blasphemy and Idolatry 't is to make Gods of them and nothing better than an Imitation of the Heathens And therefore as they had their Temples Dedicated to their Demy-Gods Hercules Vespasian Trajan and Diana c. so amongst our Brethren you see one Temple rais'd to Martin another to Dennis another to Bennet another to Catherine For this the Papists were Idolaters and for this the Church of England are Idolaters and this Idolatry they inherit of the Papists for tho' these Churches were built first by the Papists yet the Church of England rais'd them out of their Ashes and rebuilt them with the same Titles Invocations and Dedications 3. They teach and practise Idolatry on another account and that is their Image-Idolatry For tho' they pretended an hatred to Images for some years yet that was only Dissimulation For now at last they speak plain and have given that Abomination a place in every Leaf of their Bibles They may pretend they do not honour and respect them as the Papists do but this is only before us Schismaticks for believe me my Flock in Christ they honour them in their Hearts more than the rankest Papist in the World For I appeal to you now be you Judges What greater Honour can there be imagin'd than to give a thing place even in the very Word of God You understand very well that to place an Image in the Throne of a King is to give it Kingly Honour and to place it in the Imperial Seat is to give it Imperial Honour What then Beloved is it to place Images and Pictures in the Bible in the very Word of God but to give them Divine Honour and to respect them as Gods For certainly the Word of God is of God and all Divine and to give any Image place there is the greatest Argument of Sovereign Honour and open acknowledgment of its Divinity But this is not all my Brethren for besides this Abomination of thus honouring Images and Pictures they likewise Pray to their Pictures as you may see them in their most solemn Devotion of the Common Prayer For they have them not only on the Walls in some Churches but look but over their Shoulders and you 'l see them in the very heat of their Devotion under their very Eyes in the Leaves of their Common-Prayer Books Nay their Altars have their Images too and this in a more prophane manner than the Papists for these have none but Images of Christ of the Apostles and their Followers and if any were tolerable it ought to be These at a Christian Altar but to throw down these of Christ and set up Moses and Aaron in the place is an Idolatry beyond all Excuse God hid Moses's Body and they set up his Likeness over their Altars And mark ye now Beloved how all this is in defiance to the Commandment of God For the Lord has said Thou shalt not make to thy self any Graven Image nor the Likeness of any thing in Heaven above or in the Earth beneath So that did they not honour worship or pray to these Pictures yet the very Making them is expresly forbidden by God And let their Intention be what it will in so doing 't is certain there 's no Intention can alter the Nature of Actions which are determin'd by a Divine Law For then Men might Murder or Steal or Forswear themselves and yet avoid the Guilt of such Actions by intending to do no Evil in them 'T is therefore a very prophane Absurdity Beloved to see the Commandments set up in Churches in order to the keeping them and yet with Moses and Aaron on each side which is a flat Contradiction to the very Second of them which says Thou shalt not make the Likeness of any thing in Heaven above c. What think you now my Brethren do these Men love Images and worship
but their Obligation is forthwith dispens'd with they are allow'd to take a Wife and wholly releas'd from their Vow And heark ye now my Chosen of the Lord if they can thus dispense with a Vow made to God what trust can be placed in them how can we rely on them since after this there 's no difficulty in pretending to a Power of releasing the Obligation to Veracity amongst Men 11. They are a Cruel Bloody and Persecuting Church and think nothing unjust which is for the Interest of their Cause for the Security and Propagation of their Doctrine You know how they help'd on this score the Low Countries to Rebell against their Lawful Sovereign and were the occasion of much Innocent Blood being Spilt and how they profer'd to assist the French in their Rebellion against their Prince What they did to that unfortunate Mary Queen of Scots you know likewise full well She took Sanctuary here and being Heiress of the Crown was made a Sacrifice upon the Scaffold for pretended Crimes but in good truth for nothing else but the Security of the Church of England Charles I. fell too upon the same account They lay this you know at Dissenters doors but how far that War was an Episcopal War the Lord knows For besides the engaging him to take up Arms on their account you know one Archbishop changed his Rochet for a Coat of Mail and the greatest number of the Convocation-House of what Church were they 12. They practice Cruelty again in persecuting us for not obeying their Church when they at the same time are as great Dissenters as we For look you now Beloved are not their Ministers commanded by their Church to enjoy but one Benefice And yet how many of them possess two or three They find no difficulty of being dispens'd in this Duty if they can but make a Friend to speak for them and Forty pound for the Fees Are not their Prelates commanded by their Rubrick to wear a Scarlet Robe a White Rochet and Corner'd Cap their Ministers an Albe and Tunicle and who is there complies with this Order Do's not their Church command all of their Communion to Fast all Lent the Ember-days Rogation-days and all Fridays in the Year and yet who of them satisfies this Precept Do we not find the contrary every where practis'd And not only in this but in a thousand other Instances of the like nature And yet while they themselves thus frankly trample the Commands of their Church under feet is it not a most malicious Cruelty that we should be persecuted for not satisfying her Precepts So that tho' we are Members of their Church we can by their good will enjoy no Peace amongst them They spare us our Lives indeed but without Liberty or Property the only Comforts of Life 13. They teach Absurdities and Contradictions First in requiring us to submit to the Authority of their Church and punishing us for refusal and then charging such as follow them from all such Submission and giving them liberty of embracing nothing that is propos'd to them but what they themselves shall judge consonant to the Word of God And thus we must be oblig'd to go to Church and yet when we come there the Appeal is made from the Pulpit to the People and we need not believe what we hear unless we think fit our selves Then the Authority of Councils we must like wise allow and submit to and yet after all their Examinations and Determinations we need not receive what they Decree unless in our own private Judgments we think it conform to Reason and the Law So that we must not be allow'd to do what we think best and guide our selves and yet when we follow them we need believe or do no more than we think fitting Which is to take them for Governors and Directors and then afterwards go alone by our selves 14. After all this Liberty left to their Followers 't is yet the Belief of their Church That whosoever will follow her must shut his Eyes stifle his Sense and Reason and be led only by the Nose And therefore we poor Schismaticks must not reform any Abuse or Superstition which our Reason assures us to be contrary to the Word of God without the Thunder of Excommunication forthwith breaking upon our Heads but if their Church in Parliament and Convocation makes any Reformation there 's no Appeal to be made to Sense or Reason but 't is immediately to be receiv'd as the Sense of the Word of God by all her Members And therefore says one of their Divines let them in the Name of God Reform on if they proceed according to due Course of Law and Act with Authority For as to What and How and How far things are to be Reform'd such as you and I are must leave it to the Wisdom and Pleasure of Governors So that we must lay aside our Reason if we intend to enter their Congregation 't is only going on blindly without fear or care and relying confidently on their Infallible Governors and we shall be forthwith True and Substantial Churchmen And what think you my Brethren do's not this smell of the Infallible Chair 'T is e'en so But such is the Church from which you are happily gone out Thus teach her Divines and thus are her Members allow'd to believe For you cannot doubt but that all of them are allow'd to believe that which any Man among them is allow'd to teach 15. By this means they are a wavering and unsetled Church subject to continual Variations and turning as many ways as their Governors please to wind them and yet still all is according to the Word of God In the first Common-Prayer-Book of Edward the Sixth 't was requir'd that Water should be mingled with the Communion-Wine and that in the Consecration of the Elements the Minister should sign them twice with the Sign of the Cross And that the Communion-Bread should be unleaven'd and round Baptismal Water was likewise appointed to be bless'd with the Sign of the Cross The Minister was commanded to Exorcise and Conjure out the unclean Spirit from the Infant to dip him thrice in the Water to Anoynt him with Ovl upon the Head and put on him the White Vesture call'd the Crysome and make the Cross on his Breast and Forehead In Consirmation the Bishops were order'd to Cross the Children on the Forehead In the Visitation of the Sick the Minister was to Anoint the Sick Person on his Forehead or Breast making the Sign of the Cross And there was no Command to receive the Sacrament Kneeling This was their Church then as Establish'd by Law and the Pleasure of Governors and conform to the Scripture but now their Scripture and Governors say otherwise and condemn what they then approv'd 'T was then according to Scripture to Pray for the Dead as in the same Book of Edward VI. Now the Scripture forbids it The Form of Ordination was then and many years after