Majesties people you should have taught your selfe not to have rayled upon the Rulers of the people for do you not know what is written in the 23. of Exodus Thou shalt not raile upon the Ruler of the people for whosoever doth so shall die the death And do you not know what is written in the 23 of the Acts where the Apostle Paul being before the High Priest called him a painted wall and being smitten by one of the high Priests Servants it was said unto him revilest thou the Lords high Priest to which Paul answered I knew not Brethren that he was the high Priest loe thus did he acknowledge his fault do you know these things Sirra Vda My Lord you know that we hold it not lawfull for a Minister to be a Civill Magistrate and there are at least 500. in this Land amongst whom I am the most unworthy that are of the same judgement in this point Jud. But how if the Queene doth give it them Vda They ought not to take it And my Lord if it please you I will answere to your proofes though I came not hither to dispute But in my answering my purpose is not to give any liberty to any man to raile upon any that are in Authority Now to your proofes I say my Lords that the place out of the 32 Exod. doth rather concerne your Lordships and such as are under her Majestie for Judges then any way to concerne the Bishops And touching the second place out of the 23 of the Acts where the Apostle saith Brethren I wist not that it was the high Priest the meaning of that place is as if he should say I thought there had not bin any high Priest now seeing Christ being come the high Priesthood was to cease so that the Apostle doth not acknowledge any fault in that his Speech for there was no lawfull high Priest of that time neither did he acknowledge any seeing they did end in Christ And thus do the best Divines expound the place Then after some further Speeches of this exposition the Judge returned to the matter of the Booke againe saying that the booke did concerne the State and sayd Iud. But Sirrah thou canst not so excuse thy selfe as though it touched not the Qu. and the State for is it not written in thy Booke that this saying will not serve their turnes the Queene and Councell will have it so whereby it is plaine that thou didst speake against the Queene and the State Vda My Lord the Author only meaneth this that when we are called before the Bishops they were often driven to use this argument when they had nothing else to say for themselves that they could be content many things were amended but it must be so for the Queene and Councell will have it so And surely herein me thinks they slander her Highnesse and we tell them that however they beare it out here before men yet before God that excuse will not serve their turne Iud. Thou canst not carry it away so dost thou not plainâ—ly say that they are not safe though they have humane Authority on their side but he that is on our side is mightier then they whereby thou both abasest her Majesty and also dost threaten them with some force and viâ—lence Vda It is true that whosoever doth unjustly is not safe in it though all the Princes in the world should desend him in it and that is the meaning of the Author But to say that force and violence is threatned them is furthest doubtlesse from his meaning for it is knowne to all the world that we desire by all good meanes to commend this holy cause of Reformation to her Majesty and the State and do not looke for neither that ever it should by any force prevaile but that it would please God to honour her Highnesse with the advancement of the same Jud. No no these are but excuses these malicious Speeches proceeded from thee and were the ground-worke of all these Lihells that have bin dispersed since and thou art known to be the ring-leader of this faction Vda There is no reason to charge me with other mens doings every man must answer for himselfe but as for me alas I am no body there are five hundred Ministers in this land of my judgement in these things the meanest of which I acknowledge to be far better learned then I am But by the way my Lords I pray your Lordships give me leave to say one thing which I being about to speake of before was interrupted and therefore seeing now it commeth into my memory I pray you to heare me though it be out of time concerning the Felony whereof I am accused it maketh greatly for me Iud. What is it let us heare what you can say Vda When I was before the Lords of her Majesties Councell at the time of my Commitment amongst other things that I alleadged against the taking of an oath to accuse my selfe I said that the thing was accounted criminall and therefore by law I was not to answer my Lord Anderson said that I said true if the case had concerned either the losse of life or limb whereby it is manifest that then my case was not esteemed Felony Iud. Though the Iudges had not then concluded it yet it was Law before or else it could not so be determined after the violent course of others since hath caused your case to be more narowly sifted Then the Iudge having spoken to the like effect also said to the Iury that they should not need to trouble themselves to find him guilty of the Felony but onely it was sufficient if they found him guilty to be the Author of the Booke for quoth he it is already determined by all the Iudges of the â—â—â—d that the Author of that booke was in the compasse of the Statute of â—â—â—â—ny and this quoth he was concluded before we came hither therefore you being ignorant of the Law and we being sworne as well as you are you are â—o heare us and to take our exposition of the law and after many other speeches the Iudges said goe thy way we will heare thee no longer get thee hence and shaking his hand hee called for the other Felons to heare their Causes Iury. Then the Iury said what can we finde Iud. Find him Author of the Booke and leave the Felony to us And after some other Speeches Mr. Fuller said to the Iury you are to finde him Author of the Booke and also guilty of a malicious intent in making it whereat Mr. Daulton said what have you to do with the matter Mr. Fuller to speake to the Iury Then there being some noyse at the Bar Mr. Vdall could not any more be heard yet as he was ready to depart hee said to the Iury you of the Iury consider this that you have not to consult about the life of a Seminary and Popish Priest but of a minister of the Gospell Then Iudge Clarke shewed the reasons
preparations thereunto Vda Let the Iury consider how that point is proved by it Besides it may be proved that this Boke was extant in mens hands before the conference betweene Chatfield and me therefore how can it be proved that this is the Booke that should give them such a blow Dault. But you cannot deny the second point that you had a pretenced malice for it is extant in your own confession Read his answer to those Articles of Mr. Chatfield Then the Clarke read his answer to this effect thaâ— if the Bishops put him to silence they would give him occasion and leasure to be imployed in writing against them Then said Mr. Daulton is not this most evident what can be plainer then it is Vda I pray your Lordships to give me leave to explaine these things Iud. Say on and be briefe Vda Mr. Chatfield told me that he was commanded to come to Kingstâ—n and be resident there of purpose that I might be put to silence and that there might not appeare any want of a preacher I being put downe Whereupon I said in effect as is above rehearsed but I pray you heare in what sence these words were uttered Iud. The matter is cleare and we see what you can say to it well enough proceed Mr. Daulton to the proofe of the second point Dault. And that you be the Author of this slanderous and infamous libell it shall be proved cleerely to the Iury before your face then said he to the Clerke read the answer of Niâ—holas Thompkins which was made upon his oath before her Majesties High Commissioners Then was read to this effect that Thompkins knew that Mr. Udall was the Author of that Booke called the Demonstration for he said that Mr. Udall himselfe told him so Also that he saw either in mr. Udalls house or in some other place in Kingstâ—ne a Catalogue of all the Bookes that Mr. Udall had made amongst which the Demonstration was one Daul You see here that this is cleare and a sufficient testimony Vda It carryeth some shew but it is nothing Iud. Doe you câ—ll the testimony of one being an honest man and upon his Oath before the High Commissioners to be nothing can you answer it Vda My Lords I answer it thus denying it to be his testimony for if it be why is he not present to verifie it face to fâ—ce according to the Law Iud. Puck It is verified to be his true Answer under the honâ—s of Dr. Auberie and Dr. Lewen the latter wherâ—of câ—nfirmed it before me upon his corporall Oath Dault. You can take no exceptions against that and will you say he is not an honest man Vda I am perswaded he was amazed and answered he knew not what for hee hath reported it so diversely that it seemeth â—ee remembreth not what hee said Iud. But the Oath of Thompkins is to be preferred before his bare repâ—â—t Ude My Lords I answer I protest unto you and will verifie it upon my Oath if it please you that he told me the day before I was committed at his Masters house that he could not say neither would he for a thoâ—sand pounds affirme any more then this tâ—aâ— he heard me say I would not doubt but set my name to that Booke if I might have indifferent Iudges And further if it please you my Lords here are some witnesses that upon their Oaths will testifie how diversly he hath reported of his confession to this thing if it please your Lordships to accept them And the witnesses offering themselves to be heard were answered that because their witnesse was against the Queenes Majesty they could not be heard And after other Speeches passing Mr. Udall said Uda My Lords the speech of the Catalogue is most vaine and hath no sence in it for can I have made so many Bookes as that I need make a Catalogue of tâ—em It may be my Lords he saw a Catalogue of the Bookes in my Study wherin if that were one it is â—ather an argumeâ—t that I made it not for men use not to put their own works in the Catalogue of those that they have in their Study Daul You of the Iury consider this that Thompkins was Mrs. Cranes man and one that was privy to all the Printing that was at her House and Mâ— Udall used to go often thither Uda All that is nothing to me what if I used to goe thither she is of my acquaintance I know her to be an honest Gentle woman what can you gather by any of these things why is not Thompkins here to dâ—clare his testimony and to say what he can Daul He is beyond the Seas about merchandises sent away by Mr. Gore who married Mrs. Cranes daughter Vda How doth that appeare he is no merchant but a serving-man and if he were what is that to me but it cannot be proved that Mr. Gore did send him so that here is nothing but bare papers to shew for evidence against me Then there was much said to prove that the testimony of a man absent was sufficient if it were proved to be his upon the oathes of others And then the judge said Iudg. VVhat say you did you make the booke Vdall yea or no what say you to it wâ—ll you be sworne will you take your oath that you made it not wee will offer you that favour whiâ—h never any indited of felony had before take your oath and sweare you did it not and it shall suffice Vda My Lords I pray you heare me to this if I would have done so before the Lords of Her Majesties Privie Counsell that committed mee I had not come hither but I neither then might nor may do so now whereof I pray you let me shew a reason to the Iury I and many more doe think the booke to be good for any thing wee can find in it and to be written in defence of a cause which we take to be most true Now the Author is sought for that he may be punished for some speeches that may be wrested in the booke therefore least he should be found if one after another that are suspected doe deny it it is thought best every one neither to confesse nor to deny yea though we suffer some punishment rather then the author being found out should suffer extremity Iudg. Nay this is but a shift I will goe further with you will you but say upon your honestie that you made it not and you shall see what shall be said unto you Vda My Lords it is all one I make a conscience of my word as of my oath for I must give accompt for both This is no direct course in this place Iudg. You of the Iury consider this This argueth that if he were not guilty he would cleare himsâ—lfe and consider well of it And then speaking to Mr. Vdall hee said doe not stand in it but confesse it and submit your selfe to the Queens mercy before the Iury find you guilty
but is now sorry for it Puck You should have alleadged this before it is now too late Vda It is alleadged too late to prevent the verdict but if there be any force in it it ought to be considered to stay the sentence I could alleadge it no sooner because I knew it not till after the verdict Puck We may not suffer you to proceed so to disgrace that which is passed already If you have any other thing to say speake on otherwise we must do our office Vda It is not my meaning howsoever you take it to disgrace any thing passed hertofore onely I pray you further to consider that Thompkins whose testimony onely carried some shew protested before my commitment that he would not for all the world affirme me to be the Author of the Booke Puck Why did you not pleade these things to the Iury Vda I did so and offered to produce sufficient proofe for it but your Lordships answered that no witnesses might be heard in my behalfe seeing it was against the Queene which seemeth strange to me for methinks it should be for the Queene to heare al things on both sides especially when the life of any of her Subjects is in question Puck The witnesses were then thought by the Iury sufficient to prove the matter which we may not now call in doubt therefore say on if you have any more Vda Then I spake according to the eight reason whereupon it was said Clar. I tell you you are not called into question for the cause as you call it nor for the body of the Booke but only for slanderous things in the Preface against her Majesties government and therefore you may let the cause alone Vda But it is for the hatred borne to the cause that I am thus entreated for had not it bin handled in the Booke such matter as is now made of the Preface had never bin objected against me or any other Puck Well it is best for you to leave off all other pleas and submit your selfe to the Queenes Majesties mercy Vda I will do so with all my heart Puck But will you do it as you did the last Assises Vda Yea that I will And so I spake according to the last reason whereupon it was said Puck You confessed that you were justly condemned Vda I am not yet condemned Puck I meane convicted by the Iury then you acknowledged that you had offended her Majesty that you were sorry for it and promised that you would never do the like againe Vda My Lord it is not for me to oppose my word and credit which is nothing against yours I refer it to them that heard it onely I pray you give me leave to speake of it as I take it that it was First I did avow and so I do now and will do whilst I live that the cause handled in that Booke is an undoubted truth Clar. How often shall we bid you leave the cause and tell you that you are not troubled for it Vda But it is the cause that is sought to be defaced in my person and therfore I must and will still profâ—sse it and justifie it whaâ—â—â—ver disgrace I receive by it unto my selfe I pray you let me proceed Secondly I did protest that I never had any purpose to deface but ever to seeke â—o honour her Majesty and her Government Thirdly I professed that the course of Law against me was due whereby what I have meant you have heard Fourthly I said that I never had any purpose to do any thing to the advancement of this cause but keeping my selfe to the uttermost of my power within the compasse of Law Lastly I never confessed my selfe to be Author of the Booke Then my submission was this that if I had don any thing to the advancement of so holy a cause which had brought me within compasse of the Law or might justly offend her Majesty I was heaâ—tily sorry for it if this be not it let me have any other drawn wherein the former points are justified and I will set my hand unto it Puck But all this is nothing to your Booke in particular what say you to it Vda I say this that though I hold the matter in it to be a most manifest truth yet I confesse the manner of handling in some part to be such as might justly provoke her Majesties indignation Puck Because you stand so much upon the cause as you call it you provoke me so as I must needs say somewhat of it lest the audience should thinke some matter in it more then is Vda My Lord you understand my judgement therein I beseech you speake not against it unlesse you will give me leave to replie unto you Puck I may not do so you prâ—vâ—ke me to it your Discipline that you stand upon whereupon is it grounded forsooth upon the saying of Christ Tell the Church which never was expounded these 1500. yeares as you do within these few yeares Vda My Lord he did abuse you that told you so Chrysostome expoundeth it thus tell the Church that is the governors of the Church Puck He meant the Governors of the Iewish Synagogue Vda How can that be when he lived above 400. yeares after Christ Puck Was there never any that could finde it out before now if it were a truth Vda Yes it hath testimony sufficient if it might be received Puck And lest men should thinke that your matter were as good as you pretend I will tell you what I know It is written in one of your Bookes that without an Eldership there is no salvatiâ—n Vda I am perswaded that cannot be shewed Puck Yes it is in Theses Martinianae one writ that iâ— is time to number our hot Brethren Another Mr. Snape of Northampton by name wrote that the Bishops should be pâ—t down all in one day These things he did discourse of at large in an invective speech most bitter â—ending to perswade the people that we meant to rebell and set up the Discâ—pline and pull downe the Bishops by strong hand and went about to impâ—irâ— the Queenes Prerogative and patrimony After which with much adoe I got audâ—ence to this effect Vda My Lord I protest in the presence of God and hearing of all this people that neither I nor any of my brethren that ever I was acquainted with to my knowledge did so much as ever purpose or speake of any such means as your Lordships mentioneth to bring in the discipline but onely by prayer to God supplication to her Majestie and such other peaceable meanes this is my answer to your large invective And whereas my Lord you seeme to bee so hardly carried against the cause I would not doubt but if I might privately conferre with you with the blessing of God to perswade you to be a friend unto it And after some other speeches of other bookes and the aforesaid speeches in the bookes mentioned already Judge Puckering said Puck Nay I tell you
Chamberlaine in the name of the whole councell Whereupon I came thence Decemberâ—9 1589. in the forest weather that could bee yet through Gods mercy I and Christopher Applebie whom the Major appointed to conduct me came safe to London Ianuary 9 and upon the 13. being Tuesday I appeared at my Lo. Cobhams house in the Blackfryers before my L. Cobham my Lo. Buckhurst my L. Anderson the Bish. of Rochester Mr. Fortâ—scue Mr. Egerton the Queens solicitor Doctor Aubery Doct. Lewen Then was I called in before them whereupon my Lord Anderson said unto me Anderson How long have you bin aâ—Newcastle Vdall About a yeere if it please your Lordship Anderson Why went you from Kingston upon Thames Vdall Because I was silenced there and was called to Newcastle Rochester What calling had you thither Vdall The people made meanes to my Lord of Huntingdon who sent mee thither Roch. Had you the allowance of the Bishop of that Diocesse Vdall There was none at that time Roch. Then you should have gone to the Archbishop Vdall There was no Archbishop at Yorke neither Anders You are called hither to answer concerning certaine books which are thougâ—t to be of your making Vda If it be for any of Martins bookes according as my Lord Chamberlaines letters that fetched me import I have already answered and am ready so to doe againe Ander Where have you answered and in what manner Vda At Lambeth a yeere and a halfe agoe I cleared my selfe not to bee the author nor to know who he was Ander Is this true Mr. Beadle Beadle I have heard that their was such a thing but I was not there at it if it please your Lordship Aubery Lewen There was such a thing as my Lords Grace told us Vda I am the hardlier dealt withall to bee fetched up so farre at this time of the yeere I have had a journey I would not wish unto my enemy Roch. You may thanke your owne dealing in matters that you should not have medled withall Ander It is more then I heard that ever you were called to answer but you are to answer concerning other bookes Vda I hope your Lordships will not urge mee to any others seeing I was sent for about those Ander You must answer to others also what say you to those Bookes A Demonstration or a Dialogue c. did you not make them Vda I cannot answer thereunto Ander Why would you cleere your selfe of Martin and not of these but that you are guilty herein Vda Not so my Lord I have reason to answer in the one but not in the other Ander I pray you let us heare what reason for I cannot conceive of it seeing they are all written concerning one matter V. This is the matter my Lo I hold the matter propos'd in them al to be one but I would not be thought to handle it in that manner which the former Bookes doe and because I thinke otherwise of the latter I care not though they should be fathered upon mee Buckhu But I pray you tell me know you not Penry Vda Yes my Lord that I doe Buckhu And doe you not know him to be Martin Vda No surely neither doe I thinke him to be Martin Buck What is your Reason Vda This my Lord when first it came out he understanding that some gave out that he was thought to bee the author wrote a letter to a friend in London wherein he did deny it with such tearmes as declare him to bee ignorant and cleere in it Buck Where is that letter Vda Indeed I cannot now shew you for I have forgotten unto whom it was written Buck You will not tell where it is Vda Why my Lord it tendeth to the clearing of one and the accusing of none Buck Can you tell where Penry is Vda No surely my Lord Buck When did you see him Vda About a quarter of a yeere ago Buck Where â—id you see him Vda He called at my doore and saluted mee Buck Nay he remained belike with you Vda No indeed he neither came in my house neither did hee so much as drinke with mee Buck How came you acquainted with him Vda I thinke at Cambridge but I have beene often in his Company Buck Where Vda At divers places and namely in mine owne house whilest I dwelt at Kingston Buck What cause had you to be so often in his company Vda He being a Scholler Student in Divinity and one whom I alwaies thought to be an honest man your Lordship may easily conceive he cause Here was much to this same effect spoken about Mr. Penry and my being at Mrs. Cranes house at Moulsley and with her c. which I alwaies answered as in the like case concerning M. Horton of Richmond before the Archbishop Then Doctor Lewen reading my answers to those questions that had beene by the Archbishop propounded unto me concerning my papers in my study and namely the notes of my severall conferences with the Bishops and their Officer I was asked as I remember by Mr. Fortescue Fortescue Why did you pen such things and keepe them Roch. Because he and such like might apisbly imitate the Martâ—rs of former times and accompt themselves persecuted by us as those were by the Popish Bishops Vda The cause is this for that in the quicknesse of wit and readinesse of memory in youth those things may be spoken that in age will be more easily made use of in writing then otherwise the memory of man not being infinite Ander What say you did you make these bookes or know you who made them Vda I cannot answer to that question my Lord Ander You had as good say you were the author Vda That will not follow but if you thinke so I cannot do withall Cobha Mr. Vdall if you be not the author say so and if you be confesse it you may find favour Vdall My Lord I thinke the author for any thing I know did well and I know that he is enquired after to be punished therefore I think it my duty to hinder the finding of him out which I cannot do better then thuss Ander And why so I pray you Vda Because if every one that is suspected do deny it the author at the length must needs be found out Ander Why dare you not confesse it if you be the author of it dare you not stand to your owne doings Vda I professed before that I lik'd of the bookes and the matter handled in them but whether I made them or no I will not answer neither of any other book of that argument whatsoever goeth without name if you should aske me for the reason alleadged before besides that if I were the author I thinke that by Law I need not answer Ander That is true if it concerned the losse of your life Vda I pray your Lordship doth not the Law say generally No man shall be put to answer without presâ—ntment before Iustices or things of record or by due processe or
writ originall c. Aâ—no 42. Edw. 3. cap 5. Ander That is Law and it is on t Law Vda I understand you not my Lord It is a Statute which is in force if it be not repealed Ander I tell you by law you ought to answer in this case Vda Good my Lord shew me this favour to tell me in what booke of the Law I shall find it for I professe to understand the Latine French and English tongues wherein all the lawes be written Fortescue You are very cunning in the law I pray you by what law did you preach at Newâ—astle being fâ—rbidden at Kingston Vd. I Know no law against it seeing it was the official Doctor Hone who did silence me whose authority reacheth not out of his Arch-deaconry Fortescue What was the cause for which you were silenced Vda Surely I cannot tell nor yet imagine saving the secret suggestions of Mr Harvie Fortescue To bee ignorant of that is crassa et supina ignorantia Vda No Sir the action was crassa et supina injurta And. Well what say â—â—u to those books who made them and where were they printed Vda Though I could tell your Lordship yet dare I not for the reasons before alleadged Roch. I pray you let me aske you a question or two concerning your booke Vda It is not yet proved to bee mine but I will answer to any thing concerning the matter of the Booke so farre as I know Roch. You call it a Demonstration I pray you what is a Demonstration I beleeve you know not what it is Vda If you had asked me that question when I was a boy in Cambridge of a yeers standing it had beenâ— a note of ignorance in mee to have beene unable to answer you Roch. Surely it seemeth by the frame of the Syllogismes and reasons in it that you know it not if you be the author of that booke I read none of it late but in the Parliament time sitting in a morning in the house I read some of it and it seemed to mee in many things not to conclude probably much lesse demonstratively Vda I will shew you as I take it why the author called it a Demonstration because the reason which is usually brought to prove the conclusions is commonly drawne from a place of Scripture which hath more force in it to manifest the conclusion {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} then any of Aristotles proofes drawne as they say ex primis veris necessarijs et immediatis causis Roch. Indeed that which is proved by the Scripâ—ures is proved most Demonstratively but the proofes in that Booke are far from any such Vda Let that be the question and try it in some one Ander My Lord of Rochester I pray you let us make short worke with him offer him a Booke will you sweare to answer to such things as shall be demanded of you in the behalfe of our Soveraigne Lady the Queene Vda I will take an oath of Allegiance to her Majesty wherein I will acknowledge her Supremacy according to Statute and promise my obedience as becometh a Subject but to sweare to accuse my selfe or others I thinke you have no Law for it Ander Mr. Soliciter I pray you tell him the Law in this point Then Mr. Solliciter who had sitten all the while very soberly noteing what passed and if a mans mind may be knowne by his countenance seemed to mislike the course holden against me upon my Lord Andersons commandement stood up and puting off his hat unto me said Eger Mr. Vdall I am sorry that you will not answer nor take an oath which by Law you ought to doe I can assure you your Answers are like the Seminary Priests Answers for they say there is no Law to compell them to take an oath to accuse themselves Vda Sir If it be a liberty by Law there is no reason why they should not challenge it for though they be very bad ones they are Subjects and untill they be condemned by Law may require all the benefits of Subjects neither is that any reason that their Answering so should make the claime of lesse value for me seeing that herein we are Subjects alike though otherwise of a most contrary disposition Buck My Lord it is no standing with him thus what sayest thou wilt thou take the oath Vda My Lord I have said as much thereunto as I can Then they commanded me to goe forth and they consulted a little space and called me againe at which time almost every one of them used many words to perswade me to a confesse a truth saying the Queene was mercifull and that otherwise it would goe hardly with me to whom I said My Lords I know not that I have offended her Majesty when it is proved that I have I hope her mercy will not then be too late howsoever it bee I dare not take this oath Awbery Lewen You have heretofore taken it and why will you not take it now Vda Indeed you call to remembrance a good reason to refuse it I was called to Answer to certaine Articles upon mine oath heretofore which I voluntarily did and freely confessed that against my selfe concerning my iudgement and preaching of the points of Discipline which could never have bin proved and when my friends labored to have me restored to my place the Arch-Bishop answered that there was sufficient matter against me by mine own confession why I should not be restored whereupon I Covenanted with mine own heart never to be mine own tormentor in that sort againe And. Whatsoever be the issue of it you must do your duty and deale plainely with the Magistrate Vda I take my duty to be in this case not to answer nor the Magistrats to require it of me seeing the Apostle saith Receive not an accusation against an Elder under two or three witnesses which Semanca the Spanish Inquisitor alleadgeth to the same purpose Buck What you are an Elder are you Vda My Lord howsoever the word Elder be taken whether so largely as I and any Brethren that desire the Discipline do take it or only for a Minister of the word as our adversaries understand it I am an Elder Roch. It is true my Lord that an Elder in that place containeth all such as he is but none else Buck Yea but they would have other Elders to governe the Church which desire of theirs when it cometh to passe I will give over my Barony and become an Elder Vda If your Lorship understood what great paines and small worldly recompence belongeth to that office you would never say so Roch. The day is past and we must make an end will you take the Oath Vda I dare not take it Roch. Then you must goe to prison and it will goe hard with you for you must remaine there untill you be glad to take it Vda Gods will be done I had rather goe to prison with a good conscience then to be at liberty with an ill
Vda My Lord I answer that according to my inditement I am not guilty every point whereof must be proved or else the whole is false And I beseech your Lordships give me leave and I will be very briefe My conscience doth not accuse me that I have so much as offended her Majestie her Councell or the meanest of her people in any thing I have done concerning this cause for if I should of all other I deserved the least favour being one that professed to teach others loyaltie to her Majestie and love one to another and would you have mee to confesse a fault where there is none no I cannot doe it neither will I wherefore proceed in your course begun Daul We have yet more proofe then this though yet this were sufficient of it selfe wherefore read the other examinations Then was read the confession of Henry Sharpe of Northampton who upon his oath before my Lord Chancellor had said that he â—eard Mr. Penry say that Mr. Vdall was the Author of the Demonstration Vda Sharpe and I were never above once in company together to my remembrance neither knew hee ever any of my dealings This is nothing to prove me the Author of the Booke reports bee uncertain and if reports be true the Archbishop himselfe told mee that Mr. Penry made it which is more forcible for mee then any of Sharpes reports can be against me Daul You mistake the matter the force of the point resteth in Mr Penryes report who was one of your great acquaintance and familiars and you and Walgrave and he were at Mrs. Cranes house Vda Here is one mans saying that another said so let the Iury consider of what force this proofe is if you have any more let it appeare Iudg. Clarke You of the Iury have not to enquire whether he be guilty of the Felâ—ny but whether he be the Author of the Booke for it is already set downe by the judgement of all the Iudges in the Land that whosoever was author of that booke was guilty the Statute of Felony and this is declared abâ—ve halfe a yeere agâ—ne Vda Though it be so determined already yet I pray your Lordships give me leave to shew that which I have to say and I will be very briefe and it is to prove that though I were found to be the author yet it cannot be within the compasse of that Stature An. 23. Eliz. cap. 2. whereupon the inditement is framed Iudg. You shall be heard to say for your selfe what you can therefore say on Vda Though I bee not by Profession a lawyer yet I thinke I can shew it clearely by these reasons following First The intent of the law-makers which alwaies is to bee regarded in these cases is to bee considered which appeareth in the Preface of the Statute in these words To suppresse the malice of those that be evill affected to her highnesse Now I pray you consider this how can it be or how is it possible that a Preacher of the same Religion which her Majestie professeth and maintaineth who is known continually to pray unto God for her highnesse prosperity and happinesse both of soule and Body How is it possible I say that such a one should bee maliciously affected towards her Therefore it is evident that the Statute was made against the Papists who use to slander her Highnesse with the tearmes of Heretique c. and no way against us for I dare boldly say of my selfe and in the name of all my brethren Cursed is he of God and he deserveth doubtlesse to be hated of men that doth imagine the least hurt against her Highnesse Secondly the matter that maketh a man a Felon by that Statute must proceeed from a malicious intent against her highnesse which I or any such as I am can no way justly be charged with pattly for that which is said before and partly for that my course of teaching and living in this Country these 9 yeares saving this last yeere wherein I have been absent is known to have tended to no other end then the provoking and perswading of the people to like of and yeeld obedience unto her Majestie and the Religion received in her Dominions for the proofe whereof I referre my selfe to the consciences of all men in the Country that have knowne me And further it is likely that I who have bin trayned up in the Universities under Her Majesties protection and have alwaies bended my Studies to the advancement of the sincerity of the Gospell so that those small crums of learning which I have gatheted I doe acknowledge to have received by her Majesties meanes These things considered how can it be that I should bee evill affected towards her Highnesse whom I protest I unfaynedly reverence And therefore the worst that the author can be charged withall is his overheat and to much vebemency by reason of his zeale against the abuses and not any malice against her Majestie or the meanest of her subjects Againe the matter to bring it within the compasse of the Statute must be false But this booke is written in the behalf of a most true cause Lastly the end of it must be either to the defamation of the Queenes Majestie or stirring up of insurrection sedition or Rebellion For the former I trust that the whole course of our behaviour both in our Ministery and conversation declareth it selfe to bee so farre from seeking to defame her highnesse as it tendeth to the uttermost of our powers to the advancement of her Honour For I am perswaded that there is none of us that would refuse to undergoe any paine whereby her Majestie might any way be the better honoured yea wee would not refuse if need so required to lay downe our lives for redeeming of the least aking of her majesties little finger wherewith shee might bee grieved Now for the second end which is the moving or staring â—p of Rebellion c. I pray your Lordships and you of the Iury to consider this There have beene since the first day of her majesties Raign learned men that have desired the advancemenâ— of this cause and many of the people that affected it and yet hath it never appeared that by occasion hereof there hath in all this time bin any in any place that have raised any Insurrection or sedition yea this booke which is now in question hath bin extant these 2 yeeres yet I trust neither your Lordships nor any here present can shew that any people in any corner of the Land nay it cannot be justly proved that any one person hath taken any occasion hereby to enterprize any such matter and therefore the making of this book cannot be Felony Besides all this if there had bin any such thing meant by the Author or received by the people as the Indictment chargeth me withall which is the defamation of her Highnesse government yet as I take it it should not be felony by that Statute for the whole course of it
declareth that it is onely meant of them that defame her Highnesse Person and not her Government as it is manifest by the last proviso wherein it is shewed that the whole Statute doth determine and end with her Majesties life and we may not thinke their wisdoms that made the Law to be so unadvised as to make a Law for the preservation of the Princes Government which is continuall to last no longer then the life of one Prince which is temporary Therefore it seemeth that the Statute hath no further regard then this that her Highnesse person might be preserved in that Honour and dignity which becometh her Royall Dignity and Estate And I do beseech your Lordships to answer me for I appeale to your consciences as you will answer to God for my life and I pray you tell the Iury whether you do thinke the intent of the Statute were in any sort meant against us and not rather against the Papists Iud. Puck Iudge Puckering said you do not well to charge us so with our consciences which God only is to know I answere you the intent of the Statute is against all for so the words are Vdall The words my Lord I confesse are so but is the principall intent so Iud. Yea it is so Iud. Cla. We have heard you speake for your selfe to this point at large which is nothing to excuse you for you cannot excuse your selfe to have done it with a malicious intent against the Bishops and that exercising that Government which the Queene hath appointed them and so it is by consequent against the Queene Vda My Lords I am perswaded that the Author did it not of any malice against them and for my selfe I protest I wish them as much good as I do to my own soule and will pray to God to give them repentance But the cause why the Author did so earnestly inveigh against them was this as it seemeth because he perceived them not only to execute an Authority which he taketh to be unlawfull by the word of God but also for that they do not the tenth part of that good even in those corrupt callings which by Law they might doe and I am perswaded that your Lordships know in your owne consciences that they doe not the tenth part of that they are bound to doe Iud. Clar. That is true they do not the good that they might do but yet that doth not excuse you for It is plaine in your Booke that you writ not against them onely but you writ against the State for is it not against the State when you say that it is more easier to live in England a Papist an Anabaptist of the Family of Love and what not yea you say I could live so in a Bishops house it may be these twenty yeares and never be much molested for it what is this but a plaine standering of the State and marke the words for you say you could live so in England And doth her Majesties Laws allow of Papists this maketh evidenâ—ly against you and it is so plaine that you cannot deny it Vda My Lords if it might please you to heare me a word or two I will shew the meaning of the Author of the Booke I beseech you to heare me and I will be very briefe I know that the Laws of England do not allow of any such as are mentioned in the Booke for there are godly Laws made for the punishing of them if they were put in execution But this I take to be the Authors meaning that it is not spoken in respect of her Majesties Government and Laws but in respect of the Bishops whom your Lordships know to be wholly imployed in finding us out and punishing of us not regarding in a manner the punishing any sinne else Iud. What Sirra will you not confesse any fault to be in the Booke you seeke to excuse all Vda My Lords I do acknowledge that there was never any worke of man so perfect but there have bin imperfections in the same and therefore there may be some fault in the manner but surely none in the matter for the Bishops themselves will confesse that they may faile in their actions and be partiall as they are men in the manner of handling of any thing so also the Author of this Booke being assured that the matter is without reproofe may erre in the manner in being over-zealous in the handling of it and this fault I will easily confesse to be in the Booke my Lords but I am sure the Author never had any malicious intent against her Highnesse or any of her Subjects Iud. Clar. This Booke hath made you to come within the compasse of the Statute though your intent were not so for I am sure there was Mr. Stubbs well knowne to divers here to be a good Subject and an honest man yet taking upon him to write a a Booke against her Majesty touching Mounseir he thereby came within the compassâ— of Law which he intended not in making of the Booke and I am perswaded that he did it of a good affection towards her Majesty and yet if this Law had bin made then which was made since he had died for it so you though you intended not to come within the compasse of the Statute yet the Law reacheth to your fact as that did to his Vda My Lords his case and mine is not alike for his booke concerned her Highnesse person but the Author of this Booke toucheth only the corruptions of the Bishops and therefore not the person of her Majesty Iud. But I will prove this booke to be against her Majesties person for her Majesty being the supreame Governor of all persons and causes in these her Dominions hath established this kinde of government in the hands of the Bishops which thou and thy fâ—llows so strive against and they being set in Authority for the exercising of this Government by her Majesty thou dost not strive against them but her Majesties person seeing they cannot alter the Government which the Queene hath laid upon them Vda My Lords we are not ignorant of this that her Majesty hath a care that all things might be well and in that respect hath given them often in charge upon the considerations of these controversies to see to it that nothing be amisse and because she hath a good opinion of them for their gravity and learning she believeth them when they say all is well and in good case whereas if they had the grace to looke into these things and to make them knowne as they be indeed her Majesty and the State I doubt not would quickly redresse them and therefore was it that the Author did so charge them Then the Iudge proceeding further in the booke to prove him to have offended he tooke occasion by the same to speake against railing against Magistrates and speaking to Mr. Vdall he said in effect thus Iud. Cla. Sirra you that should have bin a teacher of her
State and yet I assure you that your booke had bin passed over if there had not come forth presently after it such a number of slanderous libels as Martin marre-prelate Martins Epitome Martin Iunior or thesis martiane Martin senior and others such like of which your Booke was judged to bee the Ring-leader Vda My Lords those that are learned and doe maintaine this cause doe Iudge this booke to be written very indifferently howsoever it bee hardly construed But for Martin and the rest of those Bookes that you have named they were never approved by the godly learned And I am fully perswaded that those bookes were not done by any minister and I thinke there is never a minister in this Land that doth know who Martin is And I for my part have bin inquisitive but I could never learne who he is Iud. Clar. You will not acknowledge your selfe faulty in any thing and therefore it is in value to stand any longer with you Vda I will easily confesse that in manner the Author hath offended for no man can handle a cause so well but there will fault appeare in it as appeareth by Iob who having a good cause handled it weakely It is easier to handle an ill cause cunningly then a good one well Iud. Nay but you have maliciously offended in publishing this Booke which tendeth to the overthrowing of the State and the moving of Rebellion Vda My Lords that be farre from me for we teach that in reforming things amisse if the Prince will not consent the weapons that Subjects are to fight withall are repentance and prayers patience and teares Iud. Yea you had done well if you had used these weapons rather then to have made this Booke Vda God forbid but that wee should give unto her Majestie that Honour which justly is due unto her for we have not taught the people to reforme the State without the Prince and our practice hath proved the same for wee never taught any of her subjects to goe before her but to leave that Honour as belongeth to her Majestie Iud. Well will you submit your self or not for else I must proceed to iudgement and I have no authority to favour you neither will I stay sentence of death according to my Office what my brother hath I know not and therefore shortly submit your selfe or else am to pronounce sentence of death Vda And I am ready to receive it For I protest before God not knowing that I am to live an houre that the cause is good and I am contented to receive sentence so that I may leave it to posterity how I have suffered for the cause But my Lords the cause excepted I will submit my selfe in any thing Iudg Let the Cause alone and tell us no more of it but acknowledge your selfe to have offended the Queenes Majestie Vda I may not in any case yeeld in the cause I have almost ever since I was a Preacher of the Gospell professed it and therefore I cannot bee at this time changed Iudg. Let I say the cause alone and say what you will doe Vda I must needs professe it and mention it lest it should bee thought that I have started from it but for any thing that I have done in the manner against Law I am heartily sorry for it more then this I cannot say do with me what you will Iudg. But are you sorry for offending her Majestie and her laws and be you contenâ—ed to amend and to live in obedience as becommeth a good subject Vda I am content to seeke the advancement of this cause by no other meanes then that which may stand with the lawes of this Land and the duty of a good Subject Iud. I come not here to intreate you to submit your selfe but you shall doe it willingly upon your knees and crave her Majesties mercy Vdall Then Mr. Vdall kneeling downe said I refuse not any kind of submission to Her Majestie And I intreat your Lordships to be a means to her Majestie for me And if I were worthy that my poore papers might come unto Her Majestie or to her Honourable Councell I would write thus much unto them Iudg. Nay will you write thus much unto us that wee may first see it and commend it to her majestie Vda I willingly doe it Thus they dismissed him And this is the sum of that which I with the helpe of others could remember having not any intent to leave out or enlarge any thing further theâ— the meaning of the Speakers did intend notwithstanding many more things were said on both sides especially the set Speeches of both the Iudges and of Mr. Daulton to the disgrace of the desired Reformation which could not well be expressed in particular and therefore I have left them Also many other things Mr. Vdall purposed and begun to say which they stopped so that they could not be perceived The Assises being thus ended Mr. Vdall was returned to the prison of the White-Lyon againe where he continued till the Sessions in Sâ—utâ—warke begining the 18. day of February 1590. during which time he wrote a supplication or submission to the Queenes Majesty as followeth To the Queenes most Excellent Majesty MOst Gracious and dread Soveraigne The present lamentable estate wherein I stand being found guilty by verdict to be Author of a Book intituled â— Demonstration of Discipline and being without your gracious pardon to die for the same I humbly prostrate my selfe at your Majesties feâ—â— submitting my selfe in most humble manner as becometh a dutifull Subject to such order as it shall please your Highnesse to appoint to whom God hath given so high and Soveraigne a power as is able both to kill and to quicken to bring to the gates of death and to cause to returne to the comfort of life againe Before whom standing thus convict I am not to pleade my innocency yet I most humbly desire it may not offend your Excellent Majesty that I protest of the truth whereof I call God to witnesse who knoweth all secrets and will judge both the quick and the dead that I had never any thought or imagination to publish write or doe any thing maliciously or tending to the dishonour or slander of your Majesties Royall person or Princely estate under whose gracious government I have attained to so many benefits and blessings amongst which I most highly esteeme the true knowledge and â—â—aâ—e of God in regard whereof I have bin alwaies ready even to adventure my life for the preservation of your most Royal person and defence of your Princely estate and the same have also taught unâ—o others as a thing â—pecially commanded by God notwithstanding feareing the severity of justice unto death I flie for life unto your Majesties most gracious mercy most humbly desiring your Highnesse of your mercifull compassion for reliefe of my poore and miserable estate to grant me your gracious and comfortable pardon whereby I may be discharged both of the offence and
punishment which the law hath said upon me Other hope then this have I none but the trust I have in God according to his promises that your Majesty by a speciall gift of God is gracious and mercifull and have vouchsafed to shew mercy even to such as were not only by imputation of law but indeed malicious and mortall enemies to your Highnesâ—e and therefore I hope that the same goodnesse of so Princely a nature may be moved and will shew forth it selfe in like gracious compassion on my behalfe which gracious pardon on my knees I most humbly crave your Excellent Majesty to grant unto me by which speciall favour being raised as it were from the dead I promise and vow to leade the rest of my life in all humble and dutifull obedience unto your Majesty praying continually for the preservation of your highnesse precious life and happy government to the honour of Almighty God and the comfort of all obedient and dutifull Subjects A Declaration of that which passed betweene the Judges and Mr. Vdall at the Assises in Southwarke Febru. 19 1590. BEcause you are â—â—sirous to understand of me the particular things which passed betweene the Iudges and me the 18 19 and 20. daies of â—â—b 1590. Albeit I had rather you should learne it of others yet seeing the ground of all dependeth upon some things that passed between them and me in private I am the rather induced to satisfie your request praying that it may be kept secret amongst those friends that may have good by it and not given out unto any such sort as may aggravate this heavy burthen that is already â—aid upon me Being called the first day of the Assises in the afternoon Sergeant Puckering said Puck We do not meane now to deale with you only I must put you in mind that you have made a Petition wherein you promise to submit your selfe to such order as her Majesty shall appoint consider of it and looke that you â—â— it for â—â—an tell you it is looked for at your hands Vda I know not my Lord what you meane I made a Petition but to her Majesty and will willingly performe any thing promised therein Puck Well advise well with your selfe and looke that you do it I tell you aforehand Vda Unlesse you meane that I know not your meaning Justice Fenner dwelling inâ—urre sat on the Bench and said Mr. Vdall I must needs say something unto you I have heard much good of you and that you are learned it were pitty you should do otherwise then well I pray you take heed that those good things which are in you be not marred for want of humility I tell you humility is a speciall vertue in a man of your Calling the want whereof marreth all in them that what iâ— I pray you stand not in your own opinion too much I have heard that you have don much good let not humility be wanting c. Vda My Lord I acknowledge that humility is a vertue generally required in men of my Calling without which all other gifts are nothing for God resisteth the proud and giveth wisdome to the simple and I desire that the same vertue may be found in me but I trust your meaning is not thereby to perswade me to deny the truth which I trust the Lord will keepe me from whatsoever befall me Fenner I speake to you of good will I would not have you stiffe in your own conceipt Puck Remember what I said unto you And so I was carried into a Chamber to be conferred with by some of the Bench c. And when that promise which the Judge so much spake of came to be examined it was nothing but a sentence in my submission to her Highnesse the meaning whereof is as the words going before it and immediately following it do declare that I professed my selfe willing to live or die according as that power which God hath given to her Majesty shall appoint I having bin dealt withall to this effect the first day of the Assises by certaine of the Bench in private as also the second day by some of them to this effect that I would make such a submission as would condomne the Booke in question and justifie the Hieraâ—chy and perceiving that I was not to be heard till the last day I intreated Sir William Moore and Mr. Bowyer to be a meane to the Judges for me that for asmuch as my case was rare and I had as I was perswaded sufficient to alleadge why notwithstanding the verdict against me Judgement ought to be stayed I might be heard over-night that so according to that good councell given by them unto me to advise with my selfe and to consider what I would do also they migâ—â— have a night to thinke of what I had to say and the next day to do with me as God should move them Hereupon I was â—etcht forth before the Judges in private immediately after dinner who using many perswasions to draw me to relent which being in private I will not expresse told me that they sent for me for that they understood I desired to be heard over-night which they were willing then and there to do I answered My Lords my meaning was not to desire private but publique hearing seeing I have nothing to say but such as would prevent my selfe and disappoint my publique speech if I should utter it in private yet because they told me their other affaires would not permit them to have any time with me till the latter end of the Assises I was rather willing that I should be prevented then they should be constrained to determine on a suddaine upon so weighty a matter whereupon I did draw out a paper for each of them containing these reasons following I humbly pray your Lordships to consider whether these reasons ought not in conscience to move you to stay the sentence notwithstanding the verdict against me and to be meanes of my release 1. It seemeth that my case is not esteemed Felony by the Judges of the Land seeing they do usually sit in the High-Commission Court where the printing and dispersing of the same and such like Bookes are usually enquired after as transgressions of another nature 2. No judgement in Law ought to be given in case of Felony but upon a party first found guilty thereof by verdict of twelve men but I am not so for proofe whereof I pray you it may be remembred that your Lordship gave the Jurie in issue onely for the triall of the fact whether I were Author of such a Booke and freed them from enquiring the intent without which there is no Felonie 3. I humbly pray you to call to minde by what meanes the Iury was drawne to give that verdict they did whether they were left wholly to their own consciences or were wrought unto it partly by promise assuring it should be no further danger unto me but tend to my good and partly by feare as appeareth in