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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85311	The answer of Giles Firmin, to the vain and unprofitable question put to him, and charged upon him by Mr. Grantham, in his book, entituled, The infants advocate : viz. whether the greatest part of dying infants shall be damned? : Which advocate, while he shuts all infants out of the visible church, and denies them baptism, opens heaven to all dying infants, justifying those of his party, who admit them all as he doth, into Heaven without regeneration.	Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697.; Grantham, Thomas, d. 1664. Infants advocate.	1689 (1689)	Wing F954A; ESTC S122452	14,558	22

I never spake it I never wrote it I never thought it It was never the Question Those which I treated of were Quest I. Whether God Regenerates any Infants 2. Whether God Circumcise the Hearts of any Infants Which your Disciple said true come both to one Both which were denied by two of your Sect and the latter denied by your self * Against Mr. Petto p. 51. I proved if Infants be Saved they must be Regenerated 3 Joh. 3. They must be Sanctified Heaven is an Inheritance only for Sanctified Persons 20 Act. 32. and 26 chap. 18. They must be made meet for it 1 Col. 12. I am sure they are not meet for it by Nature But whether God Regenerates all Infants or the greater or the lesser part of Infants I wrote not one word How should I know what God hath not revealed 29 Deut. 29. How could you then charge such a Doctrine upon me in your Title-page In the Conclusion of your Book you tell your Reader Mr. Firmin seems displeased at the multitude which shall be saved if my Opinion be true all dying Infants are saved c. I shall answer you very briefly That you might shew your self to be a Learned Man in the Arminian Controversie which I gave you no occasion to meddle with you tell me Presump p. 8. This strange Doctrine of damning the greatest part of the World and that before the World was makes God the Author of all sin c. To the first part I only answered by Christ's words 7 Matth. 14. As for Huberus and Caelius Secundus Curio they were of your side But mark your own words Mr. Grantham the damning of the greatest part of the World not the greatest part of Infants I hope the World and Infants are not the same then as yet you cannot fasten this Cruel Doctrine upon me As for the words of Christ 7 Matth. 14. Few find it you answer me quoting 2 Pet. 3.9 c. That the far greater part will despise the Riches of God's goodness c. But I say if they do so finally they are damned and this is strange Doctrine with you As for Infants say you they are in no danger by this Text they may be you should say they are not may be all saved and so the number of the saved be much greater by them For none of them walk in the broad way therefore they must needs go the way which lead to Life But I pray is the number of them that are saved so much greater by them that the words of Christ Few find it are not true Else you do not take of my Answer You Confute not me but our Lord the words are his not mine As for your proof David saith 58 Psal 3. The wicked are estranged from the Womb they go astray as soon as they be born speaking lies The Apostle tells us 1 John 5.19 The whole World i. e. all that are not born of God lieth in wickedness Infants are a part of the World tho' not the whole World. The corrupt Nature in them do biass and incline them to walk in the Broad Way not in the Narrow Way Betimes we see their little Feet i.e. their Words and Actions stepping in the Broad Way So that our Lord's Words may be true tho' the greater part of Infants be saved As for the Hellish Torments you speak of so much Bellarmin * Tom. 4. p. 144. ● Militissima omnium poena Aug. tells the Pelagians who are your Friends and Catharinus allow Infants Eternal Life and Natural Blessedness without any pain other Opinions you may read in him if you please But where the Scripture is silent why should we speak Having named Pelagius and charging you in my Answer to your Book with Pelagianisin I will here consider your Outcry against me p. 28. where you tell me what you have written in your Book which you call Christianisinus Primitivus I never saw any of your Book nor did I ever hear of your Name till I saw your Book against my self there I found you did own Peccatum Originans but not Originatum So I told you But for all your great Words in that Page I still say Mr. Grantham is a Man very corrupt in the Doctrine of Original Sin or he must grosly contradict himself For First Against Mr. Pet. p. 27. Twice in one Page you tell us Infants are not guilty of any Sin of their own Then they have no Sin of their own It is impossible to part Sin and Guilt tho' God pardon the Punishment If Infants have no Sin of their own Circumcision was Instituted before Christ 1923. Bucolc then the Administration of Circumcision to Infants of eight days old almost two thousand years was a vain Administration In a Sacrament there is the Sign and the thing signified What was signified in Circumcision 10 Deut. 16.30 Deut. 6.4 Jer. 4. 9 Jer. 26. tells us the Vncircumcision of our Flesh is joyned with our Estate dead in Sin 2 Col. 13. But if Infants have no Sinof their own then the thing signified was not there so that it was no Sacrament but the Administration of a Lye according to your Doctrine Secondly Ibid. p. 11. You tell us They need not any Laws to be written in their Hearts during Infancy Answ Infants are born either with that Image in which God Created Man or not If they be born with it then they never fell from God and so have no need of Christ If not so born then there is a Privation of that Righteousness which ought to be and a Position as in a Disease of that Vnrighteousness and Evil which ought not to be This Image is not restored but in Regeneration in which the Law is written in the Heart Thirdly Ibid. p. 13. You tell us Infants are innocent Answ Then they never fell from God. You could stich Innocency and Pardon together in your former Book now you stitch Innocency and Sin together You quote Dr. Taylor to justifie you But he does not stitch Innocency and Pardon together However I read Dr. Taylor 's words but he was neither a Prophet nor Apostle a very godly Man Mr. Anthony Burgess and as learned a Man as himself who traced him in his Writings gives this Character of him He is not meerly Pelagian Papist Arminian or Socinian but an Hotch-potch of all Like a Second Julian in triumphing Language with much boldness he hath decryed Original Sin as if it were but a Non Ens. Thus he We know sin in one sence is not Ens * As Ens convertitur cum Re. and that this Learned Man knew well Dr. Taylor 's Authority and yours are both alike to me Fourthly I suspect you from your Description of Original Sin. p. 23. p. 28. In both your Books you tell us Original Sin is that came Upon all even Infants This word Vpon I do not understand Paul calls it Indwelling Sin 7 Rom. 17.20 I was

THE ANSWER OF Giles Firmin TO THE Vain and Unprofitable Question put to him and Charged upon him by Mr. GRANTHAM In his Book Entituled The INFANTS ADVOCATE VIZ. Whether the greatest Part of Dying Infants shall be Damned Which Advocate while he shuts all Infants out of the Visible Church and denies them Baptism opens Heaven to all Dying Infants justifying those of his Party who admit them all as he doth into Heaven without Regeneration The Preface may be very Useful for the Children of Godly Parents Quo loco illud praefandum esse videtur Miserecordiam nostram erga parnulos jam defunctos nihil eis prodesse contra nihil eisdem obesse sententiae nostrae severitatem multum autem nobis obesse si ob inutilem Misericordiam erga defunctos pertinaciter aliquid contra Scripturas aut Ecclesiam defendamus Id circo non affectum quendam humanum quo plerique moveri solent sed Scripturae Conciliorum Patrum Sententiam consulere debemus Bellar. Praef. To. 4. p. 145. a. 2 Ephes 3. And were by Nature Children of Wrath even as others 3 Joh. 3.5 Except a Man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. 12 Heb. 14. Follow Holiness without which no Man shall see God. LONDON Printed for John Lawrence at the Angel over-against the Poultrey-Compter MDCLXXXIX THE ANSWER OF Giles Firmin TO THE Vain and Unprofitable Question put to him and Charged upon him by Mr. GRANTHAM In his Book Entituled The INFANTS ADVOCATE VIZ. Whether the greatest Part of Dying Infants shall be Damned Which Advocate while he shuts all Infants out of the Visible Church and denies them Baptism opens Heaven to all Dying Infants justifying those of his Party who admit them all as he doth into Heaven without Regeneration The Preface may be very Useful for the Children of Godly Parents Quo loco illud praefandum esse videtur Miserecordiam nostram erga parnulos jam defunctos nihil eis prodesse contra nihil eisdem obesse sententiae nostrae severitatem multum autem nobis obesse si ob inutilem Misericordiam erga defunctos pertinaciter aliquid contra Scripturas aut Ecclesiam defendamus Id circo non affectum quendam humanum quo plerique moveri solent sed Scripturae Conciliorum Patrum Sententiam consulere debemus Bellar. Praef. To. 4. p. 145. a. 2 Ephes 3. And were by Nature Children of Wrath even as others 3 Joh. 3.5 Except a Man be born again he cannot see the Kingdom of God. 12 Heb. 14. Follow Holiness without which no Man shall see God. LONDON Printed in the Year 1689. THE ANSWER TO HIS PREFACE THE Preface is more considerable than his whole Book there being something in it which concerns our Practice In it he justifies himself in his scoffing at me for the experience I have found of the benefit of Abraham's and my Baptismal Covenant when an Infant Let the Reader take it shortly thus The Covenant I mention is as I said that Covenant which God made with our Father Abraham and his Seed 17 Gen. 7. which Covenant holds * I gave him six Scriptures to prove it but he not one on the contrary still with Believers and their Seed and shall hold so long as there are Believers in Christ Abraham's Seed 3 Gal. 29. upon Earth unless the Anabaptists can shew us where God hath expresly Repealed that Covenant as he hath done other Covenants To which I have spoken † See Scripture Wor. p. 8 9 10. 17 Prov. 16. My Father then being a Son as my Mother a Daughter of Abraham this Covenant ran down to his Seed He could plead this Covenant for us and when I came to Understanding I did plead it for my self Here was a Price in my Hand and I resolved to improve it Besides this Covenant I read other Promises made to the Seed of Godly Parents as 20 Exod. 6. 30 Deut. 6. 112 Psal 2. 20 Prov. 7.43 Isa 3. c. The Spirit of God did not inspire these Penmen to write these Promises to fill up Paper that we should only read them and not make use of them let Children of such Parents look to this These Promises this Covenant I believed I highly prized I begg'd the fulfilling of them many Years being willing ‖ Nos volumus sed ille facit ut velimus August to have Abraham's God to be my God as he was His and my Father's God and I willing to be His as Abraham and my Father were And since he had promised Blessings several times but did not specifie what Blessings I chose my Blessings to wit All Spiritual Blessings in Christ Jesus 1 Ephes 3. without which I esteemed nothing to be a Blessing Non Entitie being a state far better than all other Blessings without them And whereas I was for several Years troubled about Legal Preparations and Qualifications of Promises * As 11 Matth. 28.61 Isa 1.19 Luke 10. c. which I do not wonder tho' Mr. Grantham and his Sect are never troubled about being Active not Passive in their own Begetting † Regeneration and Conversion differ I found in this Covenant and these Promises a great help Here God offered yea Covenanted to be my God would I take him for my God and give up my self to him this I found my Heart willing to do And whereas upon this Covenant-Interest my Parents did dedicate me to God in my Baptism when I came to understand my Baptismal-Covenant what was contained in it I blessed that God who was aforehand with me I owned my Dedication and for many Years followed God that he would please to fulfil his part of the Covenant and in the strength thereof I would endeavour to fulfil mine And in these Covenants have I found Relief under many yea many many Temptations This is the Sum of what I wrote Plea from page 63. to page 72. To this Mr. Presump p. 6. Grantham answers It would make a well Man slck to see what work he makes of it for after all his shifting from Post to Pillar he only gets Stomach to reject the Councel of God against himself 7 Luke 30. If this be not scoffing let the Reader judge and that not only a scoffing at my Experience but at that Duty which is incumbent upon all Baptized Children under Abraham and their Baptismal Covenant But in this he justifies himself The next thing you charge me with Is eating of Blood contrary to the Decrees of the Apostles and Elders 15 Acts. I say with B. Austin Tho' the Ceremonial Law be dead yet it is fit it should have a comely Burial And having been buried so many hundred Years that I may profess my Faith in these Truths viz. That the Blood which makes the Atonement for my Soul is shed 17 Levit. 10.11 with 1 Col. 20. 2 Ephes 13.14 Secondly That Christ hath broken down the Partition-Wall in which Wall Blood was one Stone between Jew and Gentile 2