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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A42357	Protesters no subverters, and presbyterie no papacie; or, A vindication of the protesting brethren, and of the government of the kirk of Scotland from the aspersions unjustly cast upon them, in a late pamphlet of some of the resolution-party, entituled, A declaration, &c. With a discovery of the insufficiency, inequality and iniquity of the things propounded in that pamphlet, as overtures of union and peace. Especially, of the iniquity of that absolute and unlimited submission to the sentences of church-judicatories that is holden forth therein, and most unjustly pleaded to belong to the being and essence of presbyterial government. By some witnesses to the way of the protestation.	Guthrie, James, 1612?-1661, attributed name.	1658 (1658)	Wing G2264; ESTC R221886	66,607	126

20. 2 Tim. 3. 16 17. Therefore it cannot be given to the Judicatories of the Kirk and to give it inferreth their infallibility and exposeth our Government to the calumnie of Sectaries who say we make Synods as infallible as the Word of God 10. This argueth the Scriptures of imperfection and setteth up the necessity of humane traditions because every warrantable subordination and submission due to the Judicatories of the Kirk must be given of Christ but no where is it written in the Book of God that a Generall Assembly hath power given of Christ to teach and enact such Points and Doctrines and inflict such Censures as no man may or ought lawfully to counteract or contradict Therefore c. 11. This submission doth infer That if a Generall Assembly lawfully conveened should enact the Masse and all the heresies of the Councel of Trent we may not preach nor write the contrary for that is to counteract and contradict But this is absurd Therefore c. 12. Sentences of Kirk Judicatories that are for the ground of them unjust and repugnant to the Word of God are in themselves null because all Church-power and Authority is included in the Word of the Lord and to be regulated according thereto Isa. 8. 20. 2 Corinth 13. 8 10. and what is null in it ●…elf cannot bind unto submission and subjection Therefore When Kirk-Judicatories act not in subordination to Jesus Christ from and under whom they have all their power they may lawfully be contradicted and counteracted 13 This submission is prelaticall and introduceth a lordly and absolute power and dominion in the Church of God over the Flock and Ministers of Jesus Christ It is indeed the very image and likenesse of that subjection and submission that was required by prelates of Intrants to the Ministery Bishop Spotswood in his S●…rmon at Perth Assembly telleth his hearers That the sentence of superiours as long as it hath the force of a constitution though haply otherwise established then it can set forward Godliness and Piety and that we be perswaded that such things are not right nor well appointed yet ought to di●…ect us and is a sufficient ground to our consciences for obeying Narrat of the proceedings of Perth Assembly by Doctor Lindsay page 29. And in the same place he gives this as the reason of his judgement Except this be saith he there can be no order and all must be filled with strife and contention The same thing that our Brethren now tell us that they do not see how without this submission Unity and and Order can be continued in the Kirk Doctor Lindsay also himself afterwards Bishop of Edinb in his Epistle to the Pastors and Ministers of the Church of Scotland prefixed to his book of the proceedings of the Assembly at Perth telleth us That where a man hath not a law his judgement is the rule of his conscience but where there is a law the law must be the rule And in the Oath which was ministred to the Intrants to the Ministerie in this Church by the Prelates they make the Intrants to swear That they shall live peaceable Ministers in thi●… Church subjecting themselves to the Orders that therein are or shall be established that by all meanes that they can use they shall procure others to the due reverence of the same which things saith the intrant in that oath if we shall contraveen as God forbid we are content upon triall and cognition taken by our ordinary without all reclamation or gainsaying to be deprived of our Ministery and be reputed Infamous and Perjured Persons for ever And to the same purpose there is in the Book of Canons and Constitutions Ecclesiasticall for the Government of the Kirk of Scotland ratified and published by Authority 1636. A Canon appointing That if any person in holy Orders lawfully Suspended or Deposed that is in their sense Suspended or Deposed by his ordinary for transgressing any of these prelaticall Cannons Shall presume to exercise any Ecclesiasticall Function during the time of his suspension or after he is degraded let him be Excommunicated and delivered to the ●…y-power as incorrigible Just so our Brethren will have the Protesting Brethren to engage and promise absolute submission to the Sentences of the Judicatories of the Kirk whether just or unjust and because they do refuse it charge them with breach of their Engagements at their entrance to ●…he Ministery and as subverters of the very being ●…f the Government And what they would do if ●…hey had the Civil-power to concur is but too apparent from these hard representations they gave of them to the Civil-power in the year 1651. and ●…rewd hints and insinuations which they made ●…ereupon 14. This submission is so far from being any part of Catholick truth much less of the essence and being of Presbyterial Government that it seems to be a tenet purely Popish and Antichristian and pl●…ades for a Government that is not Presbyterian but Popish and An●…ichristian Who knoweth not that the favorites and Emmisaries of the Sea of Rome do with might and main plead for this absolute and unlimited subjection and submission to the Decrees and Sentences of the Pope wherein they are opposed by Protestant Divines Debe●… excommunicatus si innocens saith a Popish Author aliorum consortia fugere a sacris abstinere igitur vnproprte Christi instrumentum dicitur Papa cum aliquae illius actiones a Christo non impellantur nec acceptantur Andr. D●…valius in 22. part quest 8. He that is excommunicate saith h●… albeit innocent yet ought to sh●…n the fellowship of others and to abstain from holy things therefore the Pope is saith he improperly called Christs instrument because some of his a●…tions are neither impelled by him nor accepted of him So our B●…ethren will have a man that is suspended fro●…●…he Sacrament or deposed from the Ministery or excommunicated though unjustly to abstain from the Sacra●…ent and from preaching and from the fellowship of others and from holy things And whether this be in the dispencing of Church-discipline and Government to be the Instruments and Ministers of Christ or if it b●… not indeed to play the Pope and to set up Ministers and Servants above the Master of the house we leave it to sober and unbyassed men to judge 15. This unlimited submission leaves the Church destitute of all Ecclesiasticall remedies in the case of a general defection and doth open a wide door for making the Government of the House of God degenerate into Tyranny and in stead of being a mean of purging and preserving of Religion to be a mean of polluting and destroying the same and persecuting and bearing down such as desire to keep their garments pure whether Ministers or Professors What is Tyranny but when these that are in power will have inferiours without gainsaying or coun●…eracting to yeeld subjection to their dictates and commands though there be nothing but sic volo sic jubeo

design to subvert and destroy the established Government of the Church of Scotland by Presbyteries and Synods and that their practices do manif●…stly t●…nd ther●…unto The title and frontispiece of their Paper bear●…th them to be the Brethren who are for the established Government of the Kirk of Scotland And the other to be the dissenting Brethren which circumscriptions of the two parties in one sentence without terminating their dissent to any thing else is obviously liable to this construction That they do dissent from that Government In the beginning of the fifth page they say They did easily foresee that their way did manifestly tend to the overturning of the established Church-Government and a little downward in the same page That soon after and constantly to this day by their irregular practices contrary to all order they have bewrayed their small respect to the established Government and toward the close of that s●…ction that they expresly refused subordination and ●…ubmission to the Iudicatories of the Kirk a principle inconsistent with presbyterial Government in a constituted Church And having in the next page reckoned over some practices and proposals of the protesting Brethren they do thus conclude o●… them These projects say they we look upon as s●…tting up in esfect a new 〈◊〉 Iurisdiction and a Plant which is not of Gods planting and not only suspending the established Church-Government 〈◊〉 die but totally subverting it to make way for the projecters their domination in the Church and over their Brethren When we read and repeat these things we cannot but bemoan the blindnesse and weaknesse of the sons of men as they are now cloathed with corruption and a body of death Our Brethrens great quarr●…l and plea they professe to be from their zeal to maintain the Government of the House of God which to their apprehensions the other would subvert and destroy And if the protesting Brethren were to give an accompt of the grounds of their dissatisfaction with them in the proceedings wherein they have been forced to differ from them and to testifie against them or of these courses and practices which they call irregular and altogether disorderly and destructive to the Government We trust they can in the simplicity of their souls say That next unto the great End for which Government was appointed by Jesus Christ in His House to wit the edifying and building of His Body in those things that pertain to life and godlinesse the fear of the resolution Brethren their ruining of the Government of the Kirk of Scotland and other the precious Ordinances of God and the work of R●…formation by departing from the purity and genuine and primitive principles thereof and neglecting to improve the same to the ends for which they were appointed of God and abusing them oftentimes to contrary ends together with a de●…ire to preserve these things unto edification hath been and is the thing that most prevaileth upon them in all these m●…tters And what a sad thing is it that both having the confidence to say that they are one in their end and do design the same thing that yet the one of them should so far mistake their own way as to choo●…e means destructive to ●…heir own ends or which is worse that they should dissemble and mock God and abuse the world with making profession of one thing whil●…st the contrary is designed in their hearts and act●…d by their hands But how shall we perswade the resolution Brethr●…n that the other do not dissent in the matter of Church-government but do own Presbyteries and Synods as an Ordinance of Jesus Christ and as the Government appointed by Him who is faithfull over all the House of God as a Son For to say that they do professe for it and preach for it and plead and print for it and that they own and acknowledge themselves members of Presbyteries and Synods and give obedience unto and put in execution their just Sentences and that they do not professe nor preach nor print nor plead nor act for nor subject themselves unto any other Church-government Though these things be clear and evident and such as have been confirmed by the constant tenor of their way now for many years and is well known in all these three Nations Yet haply it shall not ransom them in this point from the bondage of their Brethrens jealousie Shall they then open their hearts unto them and take God who knoweth them to record upon their souls that so far as they have obtained mercy to know themselves and their own judgement in that which concerneth Church-government they do judge Presbyterial Government as it is holden forth in the second Book of Discipline and in the Acts of uncontroverted Assemblies of this Church and sworn to in the National Covenant and Solemn League and Covenant to be founded upon and agreeable unto the Word o●… God and the only Government warranted and appointed of God by which He would have His House to be ruled under the New Testament and hath no thought nor design of subverting or destroying the same or introducing any other into the House of God but conceive themselves bound both by vertue of the Institution and Commandment of God and by vertue of the solemn Oath of both Covenants and many tyes besides to endeavour the preservation thereof in its purity and power unto the end of their lives and that it may be continued in the House of God amongst their posterity and the generations that are to come If after all this our Brethren will not believe we know not what they can do or what they are bound to do more to perswade them but all this they have done already and must therefore possesse their souls in patience and commit the cause unto God who knoweth their hearts and all the thoughts thereof afar off These things do haply prevail so far upon the apprehensions and thoughts of some at least of these Brethren as to make them allow the protesting Brethren more charity than to think that they have changed their judgements concerning the Government or that they do entertain formal and direct intentions and a stated design to subvert and destroy the same We know that they have alwayes had that candid construction in the hearts of some of them though they have just cause to complain of others that no professions nor protestations nor actions of theirs could since our late differences gain so much credit with them as to vindicate them from some s●…ated design against the Government Or if they have a testimony in their consciences to the contrary yet they have judged it wisdom and for the advantage of their cause and weakning of their Brethren by presenting them in such a figure to endeavour to make the Nation and the World believe that it is otherwayes though we know nothing that they have gained thereby unlesse it be to make themselves at last to believe what they would have had others to believe and

so in the end to make them run quite away from their old friends as men to be scarred at like children really afrighting themselves with the things which they devised to afright others But let us come to that upon which they lay the stresse and weight of all these harsh constructions to wit their actings and irregular practices as they are pleased to call them being such as in their opinion are contrary to all order and do clearly tend to the subversion of the Government Of these they do reckon a great many in their Representation published at London which as to that head which yet taketh up a great part of that Book is so fraughted with groundlesse alleagances and grosse mis-representations we shall abstain from our Brethrens word of foul slanders of matters of fact some of them feigned and others reported with all the distortion that a prejudiced mind can reach that we do profess though proportionable and correspondent assertions and carriages in their Agent and his industrious spreading of it did make us conceive that it might be his yet untill now that they have owned it in a publick Declaration we could hardly be perswaded that it was theirs But we shall leave th●… full answering of these things to its proper place and shall now only speak to those particulars tha●… are shortly repeated in their Declaration And i●… the entry do desire our Brethren seriously to consider whether they have done well by their departing from their former principles in order to the Malignant party and hugging them in their arms and bringing them into the Judicatories of State and Kirk against a publick solemn Vow and Engagement sworn by the whole Land to the Lord to the contrary and by abusing the Government and turning the edge both of Doctrine and of Discipline from off them and against their Brethren and many of the Godly in the Nation to tempt them to cast at the Government and to fall upon means of defence that haply might have been prejudicial thereunto We do professe we do judge it a special mercy to this whole Church that these things have not prevailed upon the protesting Brethren to the designing and doing of that really wherewith they are unjustly charged and if God had not instructed them with a strong hand to the contrary who knows but corruption meeting with great provocations and strong temptations might have turned them aside to such unhappy purposes It shall be our Brethrens wisdom if they desire to preserve the Government to improve it to edification and for the comfort and encouraging of the Godly and purging of the House of God otherwise all their professing and pleading and appearing for it will do but little to commend it to men's consciences and if it have not a root there it is not like long to subsist in outward professions The first particular is as they call it The declining the Authority of the supream Church-Iudicatories of this Nation once and again They mean the Protestations against the two late pretended Assemblies at S. Andrews and Dundee and Edinburgh in both which the Government of the Church by Presbyteries and Synods National and Provincial is clearly asserted and an honourable testimony given thereunto by the protesting Brethren with distinct and full profession of their purpose and resolution to adhere thereunto Nor is there in ●…ny of these Protestations nor in any thing of theirs that hath been w●…itten or published in defence thereof one tittle that strikes against any thing that relateth to the intrinsecal constitution and being of the Government of the Kirk of Scotland but all the reasons of the Protestations against those meetings are upon the undue qualifications of and prelimitations made by persons assuming the exercise of Government with such other things as are altogether extrinseck to the Government it self they have learned to distinguish betwixt the Government of the Church and the male-administrations and Corruptions of the Church-Governors and not to condemn the one when they are necessarily called to give a testimony against the other Yea the duty and care they owe to the preservation of the Government constraineth them to testifie against the abusing and cortupting of it So did our fathers of old whose Protestations against corrupt National Church Assemblies are upon record to this day and so far have they been by men of sound judgments from being judged because thereof to be against the Government that they are honoured amongst the greatest patrons and preservers thereof The protesting Brethren do not acknowledge these two Meetings to be any of the supream Church-Judicatories in this Nation nor to have any Authority belonging unto them but look upon them as unfree and corrupt Assemblies for the reasons long ago published to the world that have not upon them the stamp of any of the Courts of Jesus Christ neither do they think that testifying against the corruptions of many of these that are now in the exercise of the Government of the Church is to dissent from or to do injury to the Government it self And we cannot but say whatever be our Brethren's intentions in studying some way to wrap up the Authority of these two Meetings and of that part of the Ministerial Church which is of their judgment as it were in the very being of the Government for this they seem to hint though it be not directly spoke in that word of the established Government and Iudicatories of this Kirk which they set in the frontispiece and carry along in their Paper as if the Government could not be owned nor subsist the Authority of these two Meetings being denied and the corruptions of men discovered and acknowledged We say whatsoever they do herein to please themselves and to amuse the ignorant yet the protesting Brethren do not so judge and the other by doing so make moe adversaries to the ●…overnment than there is just cause ●…he second particular which they alleage is Their planting of Congregations in a tumultuous and disorderly way without respect to the Iudicatories of the Kirk or to the just interest of the People of the Congregation and counteracting to the resolutions and determinations of the Iudicatories when any of them are pleased to be dissatisfied therewith To carry on the great things of God that do concern the Kingdom of His Son Jesus Christ and the eternal state of souls in a tumultuous and disorderly way though there were no more were a fault great enough but to do it upon no better foundations than meer pleasure and for no better ends but for serving of our own lusts were a very grievous and hatefull sin But let us see what cause there is ●…or this great charge The resolution Brethren did by those Resolutions of theirs taken in an occasional meeting of the Commissioners of the General Assembly many of that number receiving either no advertisement or else such as was out of time to keep the meeting in the year 1651. give their judgment