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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A86420	Fourteen queries and ten absurdities about the extent of Christ's death, the power of the creatures, the justice of God in condemning some, and saving others, presented by a free-willer to the Church of Christ at Newcastle, and answered by Paul Hobson a member of the said Church. In which answer is discovered, the extent of Christs death, the nature and truth of election, the condition of the creature both before and after conversion, &c. Published in tenderness of love for the good of all, especially for the Churches of Christ.	Hobson, Paul.	1655 (1655)	Wing H2273; Thomason E1492_4; ESTC R208520	40,720	127

over all which is manifest in his language commanding of them but the peculiarity of his love is not to be judged by the extent of his authority but by the application or making good of his mercy which work or privilege is but to some and is solely his work as we shall afterwards shew you Fourthly though faith be required in the declaration and is the way to enjoy the manifestation yet a want in faith doth not nor cannot make any alteration in the foundation which is clear from these Scriptures 2 Tim. 2.13 applied to v. 19 2 Sam. 23.2 3 4. Minde well now it is clear that the foundation is Gods unchangeable love and grace which if it were to all upon the condition of faith giving a propriety in the foundation then any want in faith would work some alteration which is contrary to the forementioned Scriptures Fifthly in the fear of the Lord consider this Scripture John 17.4 where CHRIST says to the Father I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do Now if CHRIST was ordained or appointed of the Father to satisfie for the sins of all and to purchase life and salvation for all then he hath finished it and they must be saved or else CHRIST doth not speak truth which were sad to aver but you see and must know all are not nor shall not be saved therefore it was not given him by the Father to do Now if any shall say that CHRIST hath finished the work of eternal life for any who will believe in him I answer the work cannot be finished if it depend upon any thing else and especially upon that which is so mutable as creatures minds whether to receive or not to receive as you affirm therefore without controversie CHRIST speaking truth the work is fully finished as the pardon of sin purchase of salvation and eternal life by him faith doth not make up the work but it is a fruit that floweth from it which is the next thing we shall enter upon and so I shall say no more to this fourth thing to wit That the great design of God in Christ was to satisfie for all sin and purchase salvation and eternal life for the elect and none but them The sixth thing is that faith which is required of all them that enjoy him is not a Cause but an Effect of the forementioned Privilege that is to say It is not the cause but an effect of election and that I shall punctually prove three ways 1. From Scripture 2. From the nature of causes 3. From the nature of the thing First from the Scripture see Acts 13.38 When the Gentiles heard they were glad and glorified the Lord and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed Which clearly shews that Ordination is before faith and this order and form CHRIST declares when he saith to his Disciples John 15.16 Ye have not chosen me but I have chosen you They had chosen CHRIST that is to say loved him and by faith embraced him but his intent is they were first chosen by him and that is the cause the Apostle saith 1 John 4. We love him because he loved us first And for your further satisfaction minde these Scriptures Rom. 8.30 chap. 9.11 2 Tim. 1.9 Ezek. 16.6 Hosea 14.8 Secondly consider the order of Causes and you will finde that Henry Hagar who is a man I very much honour out of whose Book I see you have drawn your Absurdities if you do there but see how he decyphers Causes you will there finde that he makes no distinction of essential meritorious instrumental and final Causes but jumbles up all together without distinction Dear Friend it is not a form of words that will make things orderly in Gods sight unless there be divine wisdom to rectifie the judgment making man to deny his own natural wit when he goes about to decypher or discover Gods great design in CHRIST Again if you will say though he sets down successive causes yet he doth not set down the cause of Election in any of these seven causes he mentions neither can he unless he can discover a cause of him that is the Cause of Causes For my part I am of his judgment in these Particulars c. 1. That Gods love was the cause of his sending of his Son to die for sinners 2. That Christ's dying and rising is the cause of the Gospel being preached 3. The Gospel being preached is the cause of mens believing 4. That mens believing is the cause of justification but then it is justification in conscience and not justification before God in Christ which is the fountain and this in conscience is but the stream 5. That our knowing our selves justified by faith through the bloud of Christ is the cause of our love to Christ 6. That our love to Christ is the cause of our obedience to Christ But then the seventh cause which is That our obeying Christ is the cause of his giving us everlasting life that I deny And if you view these Scriptures he brings to prove it is will not make it good Mark 16.16 Revel 22.14 Heb. 6.9 He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved and blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter in through the gate into the City and Christ being made perfect through suffering he became the Author of everlasting salvation unto all them that obey him these Scriptures are truth and declare that they that obey Christ shall have eternal life but they nor no other Scripture declare anything contrary to this position that obedience is the way to life but not the cause of life if yea look upon causes either essential or meritorious but if you look upon it instrumental that is to say as the meanes or way to such an end then it is true and so is faith and so is prayer according to these Scriptures Philip. 1.19 1. Peter 1.5 Phil. 2.10 Heb. 12.14 Now when I tell you I do approve of these six causes successively before mentioned it is also with this restriction to put a diference between causes for the first cause which is Gods love that is the efficient cause 2. cause which is Christs death is the meritorious cause the 3 4 5 6. causes he spoke of are the instrumental causes and if you speak of these things in themselves and as they are to us then they are causes but if you speak of them all as they relate to God who is the Cause of Causes then they are but effects CHRIST'S death is but the effect of Gods love the preaching of the Gospel is but an effect of Gods love faith in him is but his gift and our love to him and obedience do all flow from him as the Fountain according to these Scriptures Gal. 5.22 Ephes 6.23 Heb. 12.2 James 1.17 18. they cannot in that sense be called causes but fruits Further consider what that Friend

still in the state of wrath or damnation as in John 3.18 But now to the meritorious cause of condemnation which God goes upon is not the creatures neglect in the exercising of a power to receive CHRIST but for exercising darkness in rejecting CHRIST John 3.19 which truth I have fully made good before from Scripture Query 5. I have answered in my Answer to the third Query wherein I have shewed you the ground and cause why all are exhorted to repentance and to believe and how clearly God is justified in it and how eminently his grace and love is discovered by it Quer. 6. Whether hath not Christ given out power and ability to all men to believe on him That I have fully answered by shewing you that the work of God is beyond the improvements of nature in the highest sense and is not common to all but peculiar to some and yet there remains power in all as I have shewed you to do more than most creatures at present do yet in the highest improvement the work of Faith is above it Query 7. It is one with the sixth Query and that which doth answer the one doth fully answer the other for I have in the discovery of the work of believing on CHRIST and salvation by CHRIST discovered how things are between God and us wherein you will see if you reade them over where the stick lieth and that in all God and CHRIST are just Query 8. Whether unbelief be not the condemning sin That I have answered in answering the second and the fourth Query and that Particular doth very fully answer this especially if you consider first what I have said as to the distinction of causes Secondly what I have said as to the meritorious cause of mans condemnation Query 9. Whether God hath not appointed all to be saved To that my Answer hth been very full first in shewing that there is a general salvation that every man partakes of Secondly shewing you that there is a peculiar people ordained before the world was unto a special salvation which is peculiar unto some not to all and yet God eminently abides just not onely upon the prerogative of his will but upon the exercise of his power and justice in condemning creatures not for want of what they have not but for the ill exercising of what they have Query 10. Whether Adam was in a state of grace before his fall To that I answer Where the Scripture wants a mouth let us want a tongue besides you do not express what you mean by grace if you meant by grace 〈◊〉 grace is under stood in a Gospel sense relating to faith in Christ that the Scripture doth clear up that Christ was not discovered till man fell and there was no imployment for faith in that sense before Query 11. Whether insants by generation are in a state of damnation or in a state of salvation As to that I have fully answered by shewing you that man by nature consider him in himself in which every man is to be considered till God is pleased to bring forth the effects of election which is alone to distinguish and till then every man so considered as before is in a state of wrath or condemnation according to these Scriptures Ephes 2.3 1 Cor. 6.11 Query 11. Is one with the eleventh and the answer of the one may serve to answer the application of the other Query 13. Which doth arise from the unchangeableness of Predestination from whence you q●●●y For what end the Scriptures are set forth That I have fully answered in my answer to the third Query Query 14. Whose names they are that are written in the Book of Life whether they be the Elects or the Reprobates If the Elects whether they shall not be blotted out if they add or diminish from the Word of God Answer I know you are not ignonorant but you know that the Word presents the Book of Life in a several sense the Book of Life doth not onely hold out eternal Life but the visible Kingdom of Grace and God hath also provided a way and means that any that are received in shall as well be cast out if they appear to be such that walk in Doctrines contrary to that Gospel which was by CHRIST and the Apostles delivered if you can prove that by that Book of Life is onely meant election and that those that are elected may so add and be diminishers of that Revelation that John spake of and upon that from being elected to become reprobated then you had some ground to query or else your Queries are groundless as to what I judg you intend but I have at large shewed you the sad danger of drawing up forms from variety of faces in Gods outward declaration especially when fancy is the former which of necessity must be unless you distinguish causes and distinguish between Gods essential and declarative will and the difference between the general and the special exercises of Gods power understanding one Scripture with another all which I desire you in the fear of the Lord to consider of which is in full to all your Queries and now I shall shew ye the fallacy of your Absurdities Now as for your Absurdities though they must needs full with the Answer of your Queries and need no other return yet that you may see the fallacy of them more fully I shall briefly speak a word or two to them most of them depends upon the conclusion of Christs dying for all and doth arise from absolute denial of that now you may clearly see by what I writ that as to that which is the foundation of your Absurdities that I and others do not deny but with you hold that Christ tasted death for every man according to that Scripture in Peter which you mention in your sixth Absurdity and I in your first Absurdity and therefore your first Absurdity to wit that the Devil destroys not those men for whom Christ died which say you is contrary to that Scripture before mentioned I need say no more in answer to that Absurdity onely it is impossible for the Devil to destroy any for whom CHRIST died not because he died for all Absurdity 2. If Christ died not for all men then Despair is no sin in them that perish Answer Despair or Infidelity is a sin in it self Further consider that it is unknown that CHRIST did not die for them till the conclusion comes Further that which is appliable to every creature and to be believed by every creature is not in a Gospel sense believed by them that perish for they that do not in that sense believe one thing cannot in that sense believe any thing But further minde the want of ability doth not take off Gods authority nor change the nature of sin in it self therefore your Absurdity is absurd Absurdity 3. If Christ died not for all men then it were a sin for some men to believe that Christ died for them The Answer

saith in his Book he declares a cause in all the seven things yet he shews you no cause why God should love us Now election or chusing is so considered in the singularity of his love and doth so live in the bowels of it that there is no more cause for the one than there is for the other and he requires nothing without himself to beget or maintain that in himself for us And now the thing I would have you consider followeth Thirdly consider what we minde by election it consisteth in Gods foreknowledg wherein he was pleased from all eternity in the riches of his grace and love to pitch upon and make choice of some in a peculiar sense to be vessels of glory whom he elected in the election of his Son who was the publick person comprehending the whole and this prerogative of God and privilege to us is not to be decyphered or discovered like as other privileges are for the death of Christ and our faith in Christ these have the time of their rise reign and perfection but for the other privilege it is done in God and with God without relation to any thing without himself it onely depends upon the prerogative of his will and his good pleasure according to these Scriptures Rom. 9.16 18 21 22. Matth. 11.16 Luke 10.21 Therefore when we speak of causes we must make a distinction between what is done by God out of God and what is done by God in God and whatsoever is done in the last sense hath no rise but himself and his own pleasure and if you give not God this you must deny his Prerogative and prove that he may not do with his own what seems good unto him which is contrary to these Scriptures Matth. 20.15 Exod. 33.19 Rom. 9.15 16 18 20 23. Now besides what hath been already said to prove that faith is but an effect and not the cause of election minde these Reasons First if election be before men have faith then faith cannot be a cause but it must be an effect but election is before we have faith Ergo. The Major is not to be questioned The Minor which is that election is before faith is proved from these Scriptures Acts 13.48 1 Tim. 1.9 Ephes 1.4 5. Reason 2. God is the first cause of causes and whatsoever doth take its rise or is immediate from him hath no other cause the truth of that you will see from the Scriptures before mentioned therefore faith must needs be an effect But besides all the Scriptures and Reasons I have brought Do but consider that election is not capable of being caused by any causes out of God for we are elected in the election of Christ and Christ did not merit his own election for his Death is not the cause of election though it be the meritorious cause and Gods great way to accomplish life and salvation If so be that faith is a cause of our election then election is subject to a cause and if in the lesser then in the greater but we know that in the greater which is the election of CHRIST in which general all particulars are comprehended it is not caused nor depends upon no condition or causes out of God but immediately flows from him and all other works and acts of grace and mercy done by God in CHRIST for us or by God in us towards CHRIST are the fruits of this fountain I mean Gods love in which Gods owning or chusing is so involved in it as it is one with it and both arise from one and the same fountain which is his own will and pleasure Now there being some that make Objections against this truth which peradventure may be the cause of your stumbling I shall in faithfulness to CHRIST and love to your soul mention some of them and give my answer to them First some there are as Henry Hagar in particular that do acknowledg this truth from these places of Scripture Ephes 1.4 where it is said that God hath chosen us in Christ before the world was And also the same in 1 Pet. 1 2. 2 Thess 2.13 Now though they acknowledg these words yet they endeavour to evade or turn the meaning another way by giving this answer from Rom. 4.17 where it is said that God declared unto Abraham that he hath made him the father of many Nations And in Rev. 13.8 CHRIST is said to be a Lamb slain from the beginning of the world Now from thence they reason thus The Apostle in Rom. 4.17 declaring the promise of God to Abraham saith that God calls those things that are not as though they were for saith he Abraham at that time was not the father of Isa●● in whom the Nations should be blest and yet God saith I have made thee the father of many Nations but saith he It was not so for the Apostle doth declare it saying he calls things that are not as though they were and so CHRIST is said to be a Lamb slain from the beginning of the world though he was not slain many thousand years after So saith he are we to understand election for the Scripture saith that he did chuse and elect us before the world was yet it was not so onely God calls things that were not as if they were therefore men saith he are not elected till they are called Now dear friend in the fear of the Lord as you tender the information of your own soul seriously consider what an evasion here is without any way in truth discovering what the Apostle intends in these expressions for without controversie when God said I have made thee a father of many Nations he spake truth without any such evasion as our carnal wits will prompt us to believe But that I may give an Answer to this Objection judging that if that cover were removed the truth would lie naked I desire you to minde in Answer to it these Particulars First in every action there is these three things to be considered 1. The life or virtue of the Act. 2. The fruit of the Act. 3. The form of the Act. The life of the Act is that which produceth the form the fruit of the Act lives in the life and is spoke out or brought forth by the form had not this bin so the sin of Adam could never have brought a curse upon his posterity for the life of his act was in unity in all that were comprehended in his person and the evil fruit of his act took place upon all in that sense when it took place upon him but the manifestation or execution of this took place successively as Creatures were brought forth and so it appears the form of the act was to be made manifest according unto the succession or appearance of forms in Creatures but the life of the act from whence the denomination of the act comes was really acted and executed in Adam so in the promises of God to Abraham you are to look upon the life