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book_n read_v see_v time_n 3,254 5 3.4751 3 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A15512 A modest briefe discussion of some points taught by M. Doctour Kellison in his treatise of the ecclesiasticall hierarchy. By Nicholas Smyth Knott, Edward, 1582-1656. 1630 (1630) STC 25779; ESTC S102767 83,544 218

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be_v avert_v from_o the_o sacrifice_n of_o god_n as_o s._n thomas_n avouch_v 8_o s._n thom._n 2.2_o q._n 184._o ●7_n 8_o religion_n to_o be_v the_o most_o perfect_a of_o all_o sacrifice_n a_o holocaust_n 7_o this_o treacise_n can_v ●e_v please_v to_o the_o holy_a sea_n apostolic_a from_o whence_o it_o have_v be_v good_a manner_n for_o we_o to_o learn_v what_o be_v by_o christ_n institution_n necessary_a for_o god_n church_n ingeneral_n &_o expedient_a in_o particular_a concern_v our_o have_v a_o bishop_n in_o england_n but_o to_o tell_v every_o man_n &_o woman_n in_o a_o language_n understand_v only_o by_o those_o who_o ought_v to_o obey_v and_o which_o can_v not_o serve_v for_o information_n of_o those_o who_o be_v to_o be_v our_o umpire_n that_o it_o be_v a_o divine_a commandment_n to_o have_v a_o bishop_n in_o england_n be_v but_o to_o lead_v man_n into_o temptation_n of_o disobedience_n in_o case_n his_o holiness_n shall_v ever_o put_v in_o practise_v the_o contrary_a and_o of_o condemn_v the_o judgment_n and_o fact_n of_o so_o many_o learned_a and_o holy_a pope_n who_o for_o diverse_a year_n deem_v it_o nether_a necessary_a nor_o expedient_a togrant_n we_o a_o bishop_n 8_o the_o great_a and_o better_a part_n of_o english_a catholic_n will_v be_v nothing_o well_o content_v with_o this_o book_n wherein_o they_o be_v plain_o enough_o tax_v of_o want_n of_o charity_n and_o obedience_n in_o not_o be_v so_o unite_v &_o subordinate_a to_o my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n as_o it_o seem_v m._n doctor_n think_v they_o shall_v they_o be_v also_o in_o effect_n condemn_v of_o mortal_a sin_n by_o refuse_v so_o long_o time_n a_o bishop_n against_o the_o law_n of_o god_n &_o for_o be_v occasion_n on_o their_o part_n that_o our_o country_n want_v the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n which_o according_a to_o m._n doctor_n be_v so_o necessary_a in_o time_n of_o persecution_n that_o neither_o any_o country_n ●_o chap_n 14●_n ●_o nor_o any_o one_o of_o the_o country_n for_o fear_n of_o persecution_n can_v oppose_v against_o the_o come_n in_o of_o a_o bispop_n though_o thereby_o only_o the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n shall_v be_v want_v avouch_v moreover_o all_o those_o who_o have_v not_o have_v the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n not_o to_o be_v perfect_a christian_n which_o be_v a_o say_n by_o he_o more_o than_o once_o repeat_v but_o how_o true_a it_o be_v i_o hope_v the_o reader_n will_v be_v able_a to_o judge_v by_o what_o shall_v be_v say_v in_o the_o follo●wing_a question_n as_o also_o how_o little_a probability_n his_o other_o reason_n carry_v for_o evince_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o bishop_n in_o england_n 9_o neither_o can_v my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n much_o like_o this_o book_n wherein_o the_o reader_n will_v find_v some_o passage_n by_o i_o note_v whereby_o my_o lord_n his_o ordmariship_n be_v quite_o demolish_a and_o other_o authority_n by_o he_o pretend_v either_o extenuate_v or_o make_v odious_a &_o dreadful_a to_o catholic_n 10_o it_o can_v be_v please_v to_o almighty_a god_n to_o treat_v of_o holy_a thing_n upon_o particular_a design_n and_o humane_a respect_n for_o i_o know_v not_o how_o devotion_n be_v lessen_v even_o towards_o sacred_a thing_n when_o they_o be_v commend_v by_o exaggeration_n and_o for_o some_o private_a end_n as_o in_o this_o treatise_n m._n doctor_n do_v extol_v episcopal_a dignity_n above_o religious_a state_n urge_v the_o necessity_n of_o confirmation_n praise_v the_o secular_a clergy_n and_o enforce_v the_o obligation_n of_o have_v a_o bishop_n much_o more_o than_o according_a to_o true_a devinity_n he_o can_v and_o more_o then_o i_o fear_v he_o will_v have_v do_v if_o all_o mortal_a man_n be_v as_o free_v from_o emulation_n as_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n and_o as_o he_o have_v write_v of_o the_o hierarchy_n so_o perhaps_o we_o shall_v in_o ty●e_n see_v some_o print_a treatise_n of_o the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n and_o the_o general_a ambiguous_a speech_n of_o some_o ancient_a father_n or_o the_o particular_a opinion_n of_o some_o few_o divine_v misapply_v for_o the_o necessity_n of_o that_o sacrament_n or_o in_o proof_n that_o it_o can_v be_v administer_v but_o by_o a_o bishop_n or_o some_o such_o like_a subject_n &_o business_n 11_o as_o for_o the_o manner_n hel●_n by_o m_o doctor_n in_o prove_v his_o tenet_n i_o fear_v it_o will_v not_o correspond_v to_o that_o opinion_n which_o have_v be_v conceive_v of_o his_o learning_n and_o in_o truth_n except_v those_o point_n which_o all_o catholic_n believe_v there_o be_v no_o one_o thing_n in_o his_o whole_a book_n which_o will_v put_v a_o man_n to_o study_v for_o the_o answer_n 12_o against_o all_o good_a logic_n and_o as_o it_o may_v seem_v against_o prudence_n he_o proove_v his_o conclusion_n by_o principle_n more_o harsh_a and_o incredible_a than_o the_o conclusion_n itself_o for_o example_n to_o prove_v the_o necessity_n of_o a_o bishop_n in_o eng●and_n he_o serve_v himself_o of_o these_o strange_a &_o untoward_a proposition_n that_o it_o be_v de_fw-fr jure_fw-la divi●●_n a_o divine_a law_n for_o every_o such_o particular_a church_n as_o england_n be_v to_o have_v a_o b●●hop_n that_o without_o a_o bishop_n england_n can_v be_v a_o particular_a church_n that_o unless_o every_o ●●rticular_a church_n have_v be_v bishop_n or_o bishop_n the_o whole_a and_o universal_a church_n shall_v not_o as_o christ_n have_v institute_v be_v a_o hierarchy_n compose_v of_o diverse_a particular_a church_n that_o without_o a_o bishop_n we_o can_v have_v confirmation_n which_o whosoever_o want_v be_v not_o as_o m._n doctor_n say_v a_o perfect_a christian_n all_o which_o principle_n be_v worse_o than_o the_o conclusion_n and_o be_v by_o we_o demonstrate_v to_o have_v no_o ground_n at_o all_o 13_o he_o still_o do_v not_o aright_o compare_v religious_a with_o secular_a priest_n always_o reduplicate_v religious_a as_o religious_a but_o never_o secular_a as_o secular_a for_o example_n he_o say_v that_o religious_a as_o religious_a have_v not_o authority_n to_o preach_v govern_v the_o church_n or_o the_o like_a but_o never_o tell_v we_o whether_o secular_a as_o secular_a can_v do_v it_o as_o certain_o they_o can_v till_o authority_n be_v grant_v they_o which_o be_v grant_v also_o to_o religious_a they_o may_v perform_v the_o same_o action_n no_o less_o than_o secular_o as_o in_o due_a place_n shall_v be_v declare_v in_o other_o point_n likewise_o he_o speak_v not_o so_o distinct_o as_o a_o scholar_n will_v expect_v 14_o but_o the_o thing_n at_o which_o i_o most_o wonder_v in_o a_o man_n of_o his_o learning_n be_v that_o those_o father_n &_o school_v divines_n which_o he_o produce_v for_o witness_n of_o his_o doctrine_n be_v indeed_o against_o himself_o ●_o s●●_n quest_n ●_o 3_o ●_o as_o the_o reader_n will_v see_v in_o his_o allegation_n of_o s._n cyprian_n s._n clement_n sotus_n bamnes_n et●_n 15_o last_o i_o desire_v the_o reader_n to_o be_v still_o careful_o observe_v throughout_o his_o whole_a treatise_n that_o whereas_o he_o make_v profession_n to_o abstain_v from_o the_o main_n question_n betwixt_o my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n and_o other_o and_o further_o affirm_v in_o his_o fiftenth_fw-mi chapter_n num_fw-la 10._o that_o my_o lord_n can_v challenge_v no_o bishopric_n no_o not_o so_o much_o as_o the_o poor_a parish_n in_o england_n and_o whereas_o likewise_o my_o lord_n of_o chlacedon_n by_o his_o brief_n of_o delegation_n be_v to_o have_v no_o power_n in_o england_n or_o scotland_n till_o his_o arrival_n in_o those_o kingdom_n and_o then_o only_o over_o catholic_n and_o as_o long_o as_o his_o holiness_n shall_v think_v good_a all_o which_o be_v manifest_a argument_n that_o he_o be_v not_o ordinary_a as_o other_o bishop_n in_o catholic_a country_n be_v who_o although_o they_o shall_v never_o set_v foot_n in_o their_o own_o diocese_n yet_o they_o have_v true_a ordinary_a power_n over_o both_o catholic_n and_o heretic_n within_o such_o diocese_n and_o be_v ordinary_n both_o personarum_fw-la et_fw-la loci_fw-la of_o person_n and_o place_n both_o in_o fore_n interno_fw-la &_o extern_a and_o that_o not_o only_o add_v be_v placitum_fw-la but_o permanent_o as_o always_o in_o the_o church_n of_o god_n some_o ecclesiastical_a prince_n must_v be_v notwithstanding_o i_o say_v all_o this_o yet_o the_o argument_n by_o which_o m._n doctor_n will_v prove_v the_o necessty_n of_o a_o bishop_n in_o england_n either_o proole_n nothing_o at_o all_o or_o else_o more_o than_o he_o himself_o intend_v or_o my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n chall●geth_v namely_o that_o he_o must_v have_v authority_n also_o over_o heretic_n that_o he_o may_v lay_v claim_n to_o some_o or_o all_o the_o diocese_n in_o england_n as_o well_o as_o to_o that_o of_o chalcedon_n that_o he_o must_v not_o be_v only_o ad_fw-la beneplacetum_fw-la etc._n etc._n and_o ●o_o m._n doctor_n must_v be_v force_v either_o to_o arswere_v his_o
unless_o he_o do_v compass_v those_o pretence_n he_o will_v leave_v all_o which_o my_o lord_n a_o man_n of_o so_o great_a learning_n and_o zeal_n will_v never_o have_v utter_v if_o he_o have_v conceive_v the_o very_a receive_n of_o confirmation_n to_o be_v of_o so_o great_a necessity_n that_o for_o it_o alone_o all_o catholic_n be_v oblige_v to_o endure_v increase_n of_o persecution_n for_o if_o the_o matter_n be_v so_o that_o sacrament_n alone_o be_v likewise_o a_o very_a sufficient_a cause_n of_o my_o lord_n stay_v in_o england_n although_o other_o pretence_n shall_v not_o sucseede_v especial_o it_o be_v a_o certain_a doctrine_n of_o divines_n that_o bishop_n have_v great_a obligation_n to_o administer_v confirmation_n than_o people_n to_o receve_v it_o moreover_o see_v my_o lord_n have_v style_v himself_o ordinary_a of_o scotland_n doubtless_o he_o will_v extend_v his_o charity_n to_o that_o kingdom_n if_o he_o be_v of_o m._n doct._n opinion_n concern_v the_o necessity_n of_o confirmation_n in_o a_o country_n groan_v under_o a_o heavy_a persecution_n as_o at_o this_o present_a the_o catholic_n of_o scotland_n do_v and_o therefore_o stand_v in_o great_a need_n of_o that_o sacrament_n neither_o do_v i_o think_v m._n doctor_n will_v condemn_v of_o deadly_a sin_n the_o catholic_n of_o scotland_n for_o not_o seek_v to_o have_v a_o bishop_n to_o administer_v that_o sacrament_n or_o my_o lord_n of_o chalcedon_n for_o not_o go_v to_o administer_v it_o but_o now_o let_v we_o see_v what_o m._n doctor_n in_o his_o 14._o chapter_n where_o he_o handle_v this_o point_n do_v bring_v in_o proof_n of_o his_o doctrine_n 14_o his_o first_o argument_n be_v because_o without_o confirmation_n we_o can_v be_v perfect_a christian_n see_v according_a to_o s._n thomas_n by_o confirmation_n we_o receive_v our_o perfect_a growth_n to_o this_o i_o have_v already_o answer_v &_o now_o only_o wish_v the_o reader_n to_o be_v mindful_a that_o according_a to_o s._n thomas_n confirmation_n and_o consequent_o the_o effect_n thereof_o for_o example_n perfect_a growth_n and_o whatsoever_o else_o may_v be_v have_v without_o a_o bishop_n and_o so_o if_o m._n doctor_n will_v stick_v to_o s._n thomas_n his_o opinion_n must_v go_v down_o 15_o then_o he_o allege_v s._n clement_n epist_n 4._o say_v thus_o omnibus_fw-la ergo_fw-la festinandum_fw-la est_fw-la sine_fw-la morarenasci_fw-la deo_fw-la &_o demum_fw-la consignari_fw-la ab_fw-la episcopo_fw-la id_fw-la est_fw-la septiformem_fw-la gratiam_fw-la spiritus_fw-la sancti_fw-la percipere_fw-la quia_fw-la incertus_fw-la est_fw-la uniuscuiusque_fw-la exitus_fw-la aquavitae_fw-la quum_fw-la autem_fw-la regeneratus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la per_fw-la aquam_fw-la &_o postmodum_fw-la septiformis_fw-la spiritus_fw-la gratia_fw-la ab_fw-la episcopo_fw-la confirmatus_fw-la quia_fw-la aliter_fw-la perfectus_fw-la esse_fw-la christianus_n nequaquam_fw-la poterit_fw-la etc._n etc._n all_o therefore_o must_v make_v haste_n without_o delay_n to_o be_v regenerate_v to_o god_n and_o then_o to_o be_v consign_v by_o the_o bishop_n that_o be_v to_o receive_v the_o sevenfold_a grace_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n because_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o life_n be_v uncertain_a but_o when_o he_o shall_v be_v regenerate_v by_o water_n and_o afterward_o confirm_v by_o the_o bishop_n with_o the_o sevenfold_a grace_n of_o the_o spirit_n because_o otherwise_o he_o can_v be_v a_o perfect_a christian_a etc._n etc._n to_o this_o authority_n i_o answer_v 16_o first_n m._n doctor_n shall_v not_o have_v ground_v so_o hard_a a_o doctrine_n upon_o a_o epistle_n which_o i_o suppose_v he_o know_v not_o to_o be_v so_o authentical_a as_o to_o settle_v thereon_o a_o doctrinal_a point_n as_o he_o may_v see_v by_o bellarmine_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr scriptoribus_fw-la ecclesiasticis_fw-la second_o i_o may_v answer_v out_o of_o estius_n in_o that_o very_a place_n which_o m._n doctor_n cite_v out_o of_o he_o for_o the_o necessity_n of_o confirmation_n in_o time_n of_o persecution_n and_o it_o seem_v not_o fair_a deal_n to_o bring_v estius_n as_o far_o as_o he_o seem_v for_o his_o purpose_n and_o not_o so_o much_o as_o take_v notice_n or_o confute_v what_o in_o the_o same_o author_n in_o the_o same_o place_n and_o to_o the_o same_o purpose_n he_o find_v against_o he_o estius_n therefore_o observe_v that_o the_o father_n when_o they_o say_v that_o without_o confirmation_n faithful_a people_n be_v not_o perfect_o or_o full_o christian_n do_v general_o allude_v to_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n which_o signify_v anoint_v &_o therefore_o they_o deny_v that_o they_o be_v full_o christian_n who_o have_v not_o receive_v episcopal_a unction_n namely_o have_v reference_n to_o the_o word_n christian_n as_o s._n augustinel_n 17._o civet_n cap._n 4._o say_v that_o all_o who_o be_v anoint_v with_o chrism_n may_v right_o be_v call_v christi_fw-la christ_n by_o this_o be_v clear●_n on_o what_o sense_n the_o word_n of_o clement_n cite_v by_o m._n doctor_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v thus_o far_o estius_n who_o m._n doctor_n high_o commend_v for_o a_o learned_a and_o holy_a man_n &_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v how_o direct_o he_o do_v not_o only_o answer_v m._n doctor_n argument_n but_o also_o say_v that_o it_o be_v clear_a in_o what_o sense_n the_o word_n of_o s._n clement_n be_v to_o be_v understand_v it_o seem_v a_o hard_a case_n when_o m._n doctor_n be_v force_v to_o allege_v estius_n as_o his_o chief_a author_n for_o the_o necessity_n of_o confirmation_n as_o afterward_o we_o shall_v see_v who_o in_o the_o very_a same_o place_n destroy_v a_o main_a ground_n bring_v by_o m._n doctor_n for_o the_o necessity_n of_o the_o same_o sacrament_n three_o there_o occur_v a_o answer_n clear_o deduce_v out_o of_o s._n clement_n own_o word_n and_o i_o doubt_v not_o but_o will_v full_o satisfy_v the_o learned_a reader_n the_o common_a practice_n of_o the_o ancient_a church_n be_v and_o be_v yet_o in_o the_o eastern_a church_n and_o at_o rome_n when_o convert_v lewes_z or_o turk_n ar●_n solemn_o baptize_v together_o with_o baptism_n to_o give_v the_o sacrament_n of_o confirmation_n and_o so_o whosoever_o in_o those_o time_n be_v not_o confirm_v want_v also_o baptism_n &_o hence_o s._n clement_n may_v well_o say_v that_o he_o that_o be_v not_o baptize_v and_o confirm_v be_v not_o a_o perfect_a christian_n but_o this_o be_v far_o from_o prove_v that_o without_o confirmation_n as_o separate_v from_o baptism_n we_o can_v be_v perfect_o christian_n this_o sense_n be_v manifest_a if_o we_o ponder_v s._n clement_n word_n for_o have_v say_v all_o must_v make_v haste_n to_o be_v regenerate_v to_o god_n and_o then_o to_o be_v consign_v by_o the_o bishop_n he_o say_v not_o afterward_o but_o when_o he_o shall_v be_v confirm_v by_o the_o bishop_n because_o otherwise_o he_o can_v be_v a_o perfect_a christian_n but_o still_o join_v it_o with_o baptism_n and_o say_v but_o when_o he_o shall_v be_v regenerate_v by_o water_n and_o afterward_o confirm_v by_o the_o bishop_n because_o otherwise_o he_o can_v be_v a_o perfect_a christian_a still_o as_o i_o say_v repeat_v together_o both_o those_o sacrament_n because_o they_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v administer_v at_o one_o time_n and_o whosoever_o have_v or_o want_v one_o infallible_o have_v or_o want_v both_o of_o they_o &_o in_o that_o manner_n it_o be_v all_o one_o to_o say_v one_o be_v not_o confirm_v as_o to_o say_v he_o be_v not_o baptize_v beside_o s._n clement_n discourse_n all_o must_v make_v haste_n to_o be_v regenerate_v to_o god_n and_o then_o to_o be_v consign_v by_o the_o bishop_n because_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o life_n as_o uncertain_a make_v it_o clear_a that_o his_o speech_n be_v of_o baptism_n for_o howesoever_o necessary_a confirmation_n be_v yet_o certain_o it_o be_v not_o of_o so_o great_a haste_n as_o s._n clement_n urge_v yea_o it_o be_v che●fly_o for_o those_o who_o be_v to_o live_v &_o have_v occasion_n to_o profess_v there_o faith_n as_o s._n thomas_n allege_v out_o of_o pope_n melchiade_n 4._o s._n tho._n 3._o p._n q._n 72._o a._n 8._o 〈◊〉_d 4._o &_o therefore_o it_o have_v be_v a_o unfit_a reason_n of_o s._n clement_n to_o hasten_v man_n to_o confirmation_n because_o the_o end_n of_o every_o one_o life_n be_v uncertain_a for_o as_o i_o say_v the_o less_o certainty_n we_o have_v of_o life_n and_o more_o vicinity_n to_o death_n the_o less_o necessity_n we_o have_v of_o confirmation_n but_o for_o baptism_n his_o reason_n of_o the_o uncertainty_n of_o man_n last_o end_n be_v very_o fit_a and_o urgent_a &_o therefore_o it_o be_v clear_a s._n clement_n speech_n be_v refer_v to_o the_o sacrament_n of_o baptism_n my_o four_o answer_n be_v that_o s._n clement_n be_v not_o faithful_o allege_v by_o m._n doctor_n for_o s._n clement_n after_o he_o have_v say_v when_o he_o shall_v be_v regenerate_v by_o water_n and_o afterward_o confirm_v by_o the_o bishop_n with_o the_o sevenfold_a grace_n of_o the_o spirit_n because_o otherwise_o he_o