out of Rome in the end when hee saw death approach hee made his confession to one of his Cardinals that he abused his Pastorall office that hee had troubled mankind with malice and mischiefe by the counsell of the diuell Tract It seemeth strange to me that the Cardinall should reueale that which the Pope confessed to him on his death-bed Guid. It may be he was moued in conscience to do it to the end that such Popes as succeeded might beware by his example Tract Well go on Guid. Pope Honorius was a Monothelite Confer R. 〈◊〉 H 90 Maister Harding himselfe doth not deny this and others of this matter haue written thus Then were two meetings of Byshops in Constantinople which doe beare the name of the fixt Councell the former vnder the Emperour Constantinus the fourth about the yeare of Christ sixe hundred and eighty the latter vnder his sonne Iustinian towards a thirty yeares after The former was assembled against the herisie of the Monothelites the Byshops of the West Church as of the East The Monothelites said that Christ had but only one will so by consequent but one nature were present and they with one consent did all condemn Honorius If you Maister Tractable be not acquainted with these matters you may reade more at your leasure of Boniface the eighth who is said to haue entred like a Fox raigned like a Lyon and to haue dyed like a Dog Conf R. H 229 240 and of Alexander the sixt which Pope is said to haue bought the voyce of many Cardinals c. His couetousnesse is called vnsatiable his ambition vnmeasurable Onuph in Alexâ— his eruelcy more then barbarous and that hee had a most feruent desire of aduauncing by what meanes soe-euer his children of whom hee had many c. Such a Serpent held the seate of Saint Peter for the space of tenne yeares vntill his owne venome killed him Rom. How I pray you Guid. I will tell you how I finde it set downe by others When he and his sonne heire the Duke of Valence had purposed to haue poysoned a Cardinall whom they were to sup with as commonly they vsed not onely their enemies but also their friends yea neerest friends which had riches that themselues might bee enriched with their spoyle the Duke had sent thither Flagons of wine poysoned by a seruant whom hee made not priuy to the matter but willed him to giue them no man The Pope comming into the Cardinals before supper time the weather being hot he thirsty called for wine Now because his owne prouision for supper was not come from the Pallace yet the seruant of the Duke gaue him of that wine which he thought his Maister had willed to bee kept for himselfe as the best wine of which while hee was drinking his sonne the Duke came in and thinking the wine to be his fathers owne he drunke of it too so the Pope was carried sodainely for dead home to the Pallace and the next day hee was carried dead after the manner of the Popes into Saint Peters Church blacke swollen and vgly most manifest signes of poyson Rom. If this be true I must needs say it was Gods iust iudgement vpon them But what were those heresies ye spake of before of Arrius and Nâ—storius Guid. Saint Austin saith Aug. de 〈◊〉 ad quod that the Arrians would not haue the Father Sonne and Holy Ghost to bee of one nature and essence c. Nestorius Vni Lyr. ad verâ—haer as Vincentius salth fayning to distinguish two substances in Christ on a sodaine bringeth in two persons and by a wickednesse vnheard of would haue two Sonnes of God two Christs c. Rom. If my cozen had made these things knowne vnto mee I thinke though diuers laboured to keepe mee from going to Church yet I should haue kept in some froward speeches as namely this that I would be torne in peeces with wilde horses ere I would come to Church Guid. I haue heard that many haue vsed that desperate speech but I would wish all those which minde not to prouoke Gods wrath to their own woe to aske themselues what should moue them so to say Doe they think that God will be offended with them for hearing the Minister say Enter not into iudgement with thâ—â— seruants ô Lord c. or the a sorrowful spirit is a sacrifice to God despise not ô Lord humble contrite hearts or that it is a sinne to make a generall confession of our sinnes to say the Lords prayer to heare the Psalmes and chapters read to pray in the Letany among other things that it would please God to bring into the way of truth all such as haue erred and are deceiued or to be present where all estates degrees are prayed for yea that it would please God to haue mercy vpon all men to forgiue our enemies at the end of the commandements to say Lord haue mercy vpon vs and write all these thy lawes in our hearts wee beseech thee Or when we come to the congregation to say kneeling O almighty God Father of our Lord Iesus Christ iudge of all men we acknowledge bewaile our manifold sinnes and wickednesse which we from time to time most griueuously haue coÌ„mitted against thy Diuine Maiesty by thought word and deed prouoking most iustly thy wrath indignation against vs we do earnestly repent bee heartily sorry for these our mis-doings c. After the Communion to heare the Minister reade any of the prayers containing thanksgiuing as in the booke are appointed or to sing with the rest of the thanksgiuing in Méeter which beginneth The Lord be thanked for his gifts And mercy euermore That he hath shew'd vnto his Saints To him be laude therefore The reading or finging of this thaÌ„ksgiuing doth edifie coÌ„mfort the faithfull humble coÌ„municant far more then the hearing of an 100 Masses in a strange tongue by which indeed the vnlearned hath no edifying at al. Mad. What say you to these things Mi. Romana is there any thing heere that should hinder you from praying with vs Rom. Aske my cozen Guid. Aske your cozen aske your owne conscience What if your cozen should tell you that Peter brought men to the worship of Christ by magicall Arts and bad feates as some fayned before S. Austins time who wrot more then 1200 yeares ago Aug. de ciuit li 18 c 53 54 would you beleeue it to be so if your cozen should say so Tract I would you should well know Maister Guide-well that I am so far from hauing that opinion of Peter that I hold him for a true Teacher and for that Shepeheard whom Christ appointed to feede his Sheepe Guid. If you meane by Sheepheards the onely Sheepeheard I may not yeeld to you vnlesse I should dissent from S. Austin who on the tenth of Iohn saith Et quidem fratres c. And verily brethren in that hee
all respects am farre inferior vnto him but the truth is I haue read it my selfe in Saint Augustine his 18 booke and 23 chapter of the Citty of God the first word of which chap-chapter is eodem and the last word scripserunt Chap. Are the verses you spake of set downe in that Chapter Salt Yes in Lattine Iudicij signum c. Chap. I would I had them in English Salt If you will haue them Englished in the best manner you must craue it at the hands of some other but if you will see the sence as I haue giuen it after the plaine fashion thus it is The earth it selfe shall sweat through feare To shew that iudgement doth draw neere The eternall king from heauen shall come In flesh to iudge at day of dome Faithfull and faithlesse then shall see The glorious God and Saints set free When earth vntilled shall bryars beare TheÌ„ soules with flesh that Iudge shall heare Reijcient simulactra viri cunctam quoque gazam Exuret terras ignis pontuÌ„que poluÌ„que inquirens c. Then shall men cast false Gods away With treasures rich and iewels gay The earth shall burne with fiery flame That shall search sea and heauenly frame The dores of dreadful diuels then Shall broken be in sight of men The bodies of Saints in light shall shine When wicked men in flame shall whine Things done in secret and by night Shall then be knowne and brought to light Then men shall cry alasse and woe And wayling gnash their teeth also The Sun and Moone shall loose their light The heauens dissolue no starre in sight The hils shall downe the vallies rise Each thing made euen in wonderous wise The course of all things then shall stay The earth sore crusht shall quite decay The fountaines then shall dry be found And Trumpets giue a dolefull sound Bemoning then mans misery When hell shall gape most horribly Before the Lord at that same hower Shall Kings be brought and men of power A fearfull fire from heauen shall burne With store of brimston for that turne Chap. In whose time liued that Sibyll Salt He that compareth the 23 Chapter of the 18 booke De Ciuitate Dei with the Chapter aforegoing shall finde that she was in the daies of Romulus and Ezechias Romulus was some 700 yeares before Christ but in the end of that Chapter hee saith some wrote that she was belli Troiani tempore in time of the Troiane warre Chap. Did she write such things so long before the Incarnation of our Sauiour Iesus Christ Salt It should seeme so by S. Austin but since your comming was not for Sibyl-Salt but for Salt Canonicall tell mee how much you will haue Chap. Marry friend Salter tell me first I pray thee what I shall say to these Atheists if they should aske mee how I know that this Salt which coÌ„meth from Bible-Spring doth passe all other Salt Hee which for that matter hath not the inward testimony of the spirit which is the chiefest must bee exhorted to seeke for some outward testimony in the fountaine it selfe whereof the first may be the maiesty of the doctrine euery where appearing in those sacred and Canonicall bookes Vide Whita in dis de sacr Scrip. contren 1. Qâ—aest 3. cap. 3. sect 5. The â—econd the simple pure and heauenly kind of writing neither Plato Aristotle nor Demosthenes nor Cicero nor any other that wrote so purely so holily and so diuinely The third is the antiquity of them for the bookes of Moses are more ancient then the writings of all men other Writers were vtterly ignorant of the History he deducteth from the creation or had it from thence or else bee sprinkled with many fables The fourth testimony is the Oracles which confirme the authority of those books to be very sacred as the which must needes bee diuine for that in them are fore-told some things which came to passe manâ— ages after and names were put vpon somâ— men before they were borne certaine hundreth of yeares as in 1 Kings 13 Chapter the man of God which came out of Iudah by the commandement of the Lord cryed against that Altar in the presence of King Iereboam and said O Altar Altar thus saith the Lord behold a child shal be borne vnto the house of Dauid Iosiah by name and vpon thee shall hee sacrifice the Priestâ— of the high places this he spake more therâ— 300 yeares before Iosiah was borne 44.28 45. â— thâ—â— Prophet Esaie in like manner nameth Cyrus some 100 yeares ere he was borne Chap. How can you proue that Iosiaâ— and Cyrus were named so long before they were borne Salt I find in the 2 Chronicles 13 20. that Ieroboam in whose daies Iosiah was named by the man of God aforesaid being plagued of God died in the daies of Abijah who was then King of Iudah now he that will reckon how many yeares each King of Iudah from Abijah to Iosiah did raigne shall finde the yeares when he fetteth down the whole sumine to be more then 300. And as touching Cyrus named by the Prophet Isay know you that this Prophet prophesied in the daies of Vzziah Iotham Ahaz Isay 1.1 and Hezekiah Kings of Iudah now presuppose that the Prophet Isay named not Cyrus till the last yeare of Hezekiah his raigne and that Cyrus was borne in the 11 yeare of Iehoiakim about which time beganne the captiuity of Babilon if yee reckon the yeares of the raignes of the Kings of Iudah that raigned betwixt Ezekiah 2. Chro. 26.6 Iehoiakim you shall finde them as I said to amount to some hundred yeares lacking some nine monthes for Manasses who succeeded Hezekiah raigned 55 years Amon two yeares Iosiah 31 yeares Ioachas 3 monthes Iehoiakim 11 yeares Chap. Go on now with the rest of the testimonies for the authority of the Scriptures Salt The fift is the number of miracles Chap. What miracles if you meane such are found in the Scriptures assure your selfe that they which doubt of or set light by the Scriptures make little accompt of the miracles or any thing else contained in them though they were not faigned Salt If that testimony seeme weak take the sixt Do. Whitak in dis de sacr Scrip. contro 1 Qu. 3. ca. 3. sest 5 which is the enemies themselues who though they haue oft gone about to take away all the Scriptures from the sight of men yet they could neuer bring it to passe but by their owne paines and punishments vnderstood that it was the word of God that they oppugned The seuenth is the testimony of the Martirs which by their confession and death sealed the doctrine deliuered and set forth in those bookes The eigth the Writers themselues who wrote theÌ„ bring great credit vnto theÌ„ for if ye consider what manner of meÌ„ they were before they were stirred vp by the holy Ghost to take this vpon them wee shall finde that they were very vnfit for such
Rom 15 4 whatsoeuer things are written are written for our learning Tract But Sir Thomas Moores bookes and the Golden-legend and such like are written ergo for our learning Guid. Soft Maister Tractable you are too forward for you minor or assumption if I had bene disposed to make a sillogisme I would haue done it without your helpe if the Apostle had meant whatsoeuer was written in any booke you had concluded well but he meant not so for if he had then we should reade for our learning Huon of Burdeaux Beuis of Hampton all bookes of fables errours and lies whatsoeuer but he speaketh of the holy Scriptures for immediately after the former words he hath these that we through patience comfort of the Scriptures might haue hope And when hée saith as it is written I haue made thee a father of many Nations and againe now it is not written for him only Gen. 17.4.15.6 that it was imputed to him Abraham for righteousnesse but also for vs c. he meaneth writteÌ„ in Genesis And when he writeth to the Corinthians touching the Death and Resurrection of Christ our Redéemer hee saith 1. Cor. 15.3.4 that Christ dyed for our sinnes according to the Scriptures Exo. 12.6 7 Ps 22 15.16 17. and that he was buried and that hee arose the third day Esa 34 53. Zach 13 7 according to the Scriptures And Saint Peter writing to those that had obtained like precious faith c. saith Wee haue also a more sure Propheticall word to the which you do well that yée take héed as vnto a light that shineth in a darke place Dan. 9.26 Ionas 1.17 2. Pet. 1 19. vntill the day dawne and the Day-starre arise in your hearts not meaning that the words of the Prophets in themselues were more firme or of greater credit then the Gospell of Christ or that voyce of God the Father Math. 17.5 This is my beloued Sonne in whom I am well pleased heare him Tract Saint Peter saith hee heard that voyce when hee was with him in the Holy mount but he saith nothing of these words heare him Guid. No more doth hee mention his owne words spoken a little before that voyce came Rom. What words were those Guid. Maister it is good for vs to be here c. we may not thinke that Saint Mathew reporteth an vntruth because Saint Peter spake not all at once there was a voyce also from heauen when Christ was baptized but then neither Mathew Mark nor Luke mentioned those words heare him But to returne to the matter we haue in hand you sée by the places I cited that for the guiding of our faith and bringing of vs to the true knowledge of our saluation purchased by Christ we are sent to the Scriptures therefore Mistresse Romana and you Maister Tractable if you will build surely build your faith on the holy scriptures let no mens writings carry you any whither without this good guid If you would take as great delight in reading the Bible as you do in the books you speak of pray God heartily in al humility of spirit to giue you such mesure of knowledge as may suffice to bring true comfort to your soule and therewithall bee willing and diligent in hearing the Word taught which is a special ordinary means to plant in you a sound Faith in Christ our Wisedome Righteousnesse Sanctification and Redemption I doubt not but in short space you should sée how fowly you were deceiued in thinking you might go to heauen by obseruing mens Traditions stumbling in the darke without the word of God which the Prophet Dauid calleth a Lantherne to his feet and a light to his pathes Ps 119.105 Rom. If I should giue eare vnto you M. Guidewell and such as you are would you bring me to any other faith theÌ„ that which is called Catholike Guid. The summe of the ancient Catholicke faith to be receiued of all that will bée saued is set downe in the Créede called the Apostles Créed which beginneth thus I beleeue in God the Father Almighty c. And in the other receiued Créed Whosoeuer will be saued c. Which Créed is read diuers times in our Churches yeerely Rom. Is there no mention in that ancient Creed of praying to saints of going a Pilgrimage of worshipping of the Crosse and Images of Purgatory praying on Beades and such other matters as are receiued of vs which go to Masse Guid. Aske your Cozen. Rom. What say you Cozen are they Tract No what then shall we not vse Baptisme and the Supper of the Lord because they are not mentioned in that Creed Guid. Christ commanded the vse of them but not of the other yea rather hee forbiddeth the other for that they are repugnant to that which he commandeth and teacheth Mad. Most of your side M. Tractable are found to be far more forward in obseruing that which man requireth then that which the Almighty commandeth Many especially the ignorant sort talke much of the Catholike Faith but if one should aske them what is the true iustifying faith how it is wrought in vs to what end it is giuen vs I feare they would make but a simple answere Rom. If one should aske you Madame what would you answere Mad. Maister Guidewell is present therefore it is fit that he should answere Guid. Nay pray you let her heare what you can say Mad. This then vnder correction I say that Faith is a sure perswasion wrought in the hearts of the elect by the Spirit of God together with his word truly taught reuerently heard and well vnderstood by the which faith the soule beléeueth that it repenting and stedfastly cleauing vnto Christ her head and Sauiour hath all her sinnes throughly remitted and is reconciled to God to the end shee should bring forth the fruites of Repentance and in loue doe the workes of a sound faith to the glory of God the good example of others and the assuring her selfe of her effectuall calling and so of her election to life euerlasting Rom. I promise you Madam I take it to be farre more easie to kisse a Crucifixe to heare a Masse to goe to shrift to say dayly twenty Auo maries besides De profundis and to fast the Imber dayes from flesh hauing other good fare to serue the turne then to learne and practise this which you haue spoken of faith and workes I had thought you Protestants had shut good workes cleane out of your doores Guid. You and others are told many things which you should finde false if you would be one of our hearers for we teach that as that sonne which will dwell in his fathers house which is bought for him must go the right way vnto it So though Christ hath bought a resting place for vs in heauen with his blâ—ud yet if we will enioy it wée must walke the right way to it dye to sin and lead a new life 2. Tim. 2 19.
they fell on sleepe or rose vp and tooke it But to let this goe I wonder you or any other should be so fond to thinke that the blessed Virgin enioying the true light is honoured with lights of mans making she requireth no such honour The Angell bad Iohn worship God and our Sauiour sayth not that he is worshipped with setting vp of Candles but in spirit and trueth that is with a true Spirituall worship In a word we are not bid to make lights for God or the Virgin but while we haue light to beleeue in the light But I pray you tell me do you know how this carrying of Candles on that day came vp first Ro. No not I it may be my Cozen Tractable doth If you doe Couzen I pray let vs heare it Trac I am wearie now with sitting here so long If this company will come againe to morrow you shall heare what I haue read of it Guid. If it please you Madam let vs returne to morrow Mad. If it please God I will not so much to heare this as some other talke that you may fall into Mad. Howe where be you Rom. Who is there Mad. Here is a Fryer Rom. You are welcome Mad. Why because I come in the name of a Fryer I thinke the answere here is a Fryer so much vsed of those that knock at mens dores did rise of this that of all other men Fryers were most welcome in times past Guid. I thinke they were as welcome then as those which call themselues Iesuits haue of late been welcom to Recusants but I see no reason why they should be so welcome now seeing it is very likely they haue had a strong hand in this monstrous intended murder whereby some of their Schollers are fallen into the pit they made for others Their plot was by powder and powder to put them in minde of their sinne and to forewarne them of their fall as it is said scarred some of them in drying of it And as Senacherib was slaine by his owne sonnes so these by their owne plots wrought their owne woe When there is some speciall matter to bee noted the holy Ghost to the end of certaine verses addeth this word Selah the which word some Hebrew readers say is as much as O rem notatu dignam eleuetur hic vox O matter worthy to bee noted let the voyce be lifted vp here This word is vsed thrise in the 140 Psalm They haue sharpened their tongues like a Serpent Adders poyson is vnder their lippes Selah The proud haue laid a snare for mee and spred a not with cords in my path way and set grins for me Selah Let not the wicked haue his desire ô Lord performe not his wicked thought least hee be proud Selah Blessed bee God which hath deliuered our King and many others out of cruell Faux his bloudy iaw not suffering him to performe that wicked thought but marred all his mischeuous matches Mad. Amen Amen Truly mistresse Romana me thinkes if there were nothing else to draw you from your Popish superstition that same inherent cruelty which is in those that fauour it against such as will not play with puppets as they themselues do might driue you out of that bloudy Babylon and cause you to ioyne with such as embrace the glorious Gospell of Iesus Christ sincerely Tract You would haue my cozen and me to go from the Catholicks Was not S. Austin a Catholicke and were not all those against whom he wrote Heretickes Guid. What if it were so can you proue that we hold any opinions that S. Austin sodainly confuted by the Scriptures do you not know that the summe of the auncient Catholicke faith so much as is needfull to saluation is contained in that Creed Quicunque vult c. Whosoeuer will bee saued c. and that this Creed is read oft-times in our parish Churches yearely Rom. Come cozen come let vs sit down I pray you and tell vs how Candlemasse day came vp for that was your promise yesternight Tract Iacobus Passanantius in his additions to the Commentaries of Thomas Valois and Nicholas Treuet on the sixth booke of S Austin de Ciuitate Dei cap. 7. Guid. Stay a little Tell mee the first word and the last of that Chapter that I may know whether you haue read it your selfe or had it at the second hand Tract Doth euery one that readeth a Chapter remember at all times the first and last word of it I promise you I doe not yet I remember the first word of that Chapter is Reuocatur and the last Obscoenitas Rom. On Cozen this is but to trouble your tale This Iacobus sheweth out of Ouid that after Pluto the God of Hell beeing wounded with that dart which had the golden point had by violence taken away Proserpina the daughter of the Goddesse Ceres and placing her with him in his blacke Chariot had brought her to Hell and made her Queene of the same Her mother Ceres who could not stay Pluto with her out-cryes and piteous moane sought her Daughter euery where day and night with lights and fire-brandes which shee had in Mount Etna By occasion of this Fable faith he there sprang vp superstition in Rome For the women there representing this taking away of Proserpina by force and Ceres seeking her with lights in the Kalends of February which moneth was said to bee consecrated to the God of Hell Pluto which by another name was called Februus from whom the moneth was called February went about with lights ouer Hilles and Vallyes with Ceres seeking Proserpina Now to take away this superstition obserued in the Honour of the Queene of Hell the Church appoynted that in honour of the Queene of Heauen the second day of February to wit on the feast of the Purification the Faithfull people should carry in their handes lighted Candles And hence it is saith hee that that day is called Candelaria We call it Candlemas Guid. And so one superstition gaue place to another Cath. I perceiue this custome or tradition or whatsoeuer you call it is nobly descended and of a very auncient House Her Grand-mother was the Lady Fable her mother was a great Lady in Rome called Madame Superstition who was very fruitfull She hath brought forth many Sonnes and many Daughters many Nephews and many Neeces which yeerely after sheep-shearing giue her many golden fleeces Rom. Alacke for you are you come in with your néeces and fléeces all is but fables with you Tract I thinke in a while they will say as one sayd O quantum nobis profuit illa Fabula dech See the defence of the Apol pag. 273. printed 1570 Guid. Stay betimes Maister Tractable least you marre all for that is no speech of ours but a lesson that one of your late Popes as it is reported taught his Cardinalls Tract Whosoeuer taught it it was a wicked lesson for it was a naughty speech and sauoured of impietie Guid. You cannot for shame
merit hath set in this place for which a dangerous account is to be giuen are both Christians Rulers In that we are Christians wee are for our selues Phil. 2.21 So the samâ— Augustine also in Fol 21. tract 123. siâ—ut meas pasce non sicut tuas gloriam mearnin cis quere non tuam domimium meum non tuam lucra mea non tua ne sit in eorum societate quipertinâ—nâ— ad tempora periculosa seâ—psos amantes Tim 3. â— in that we are Rulers it is for you c. In the second Chapter hauing affirmed that be milke whatsoeuer is giuen of the people to their guides for temporall food he saith That albeit the Apostle had rather labour with his hands then to take the milk of the flocke yet he said he had power to take it that the Lord had so expounded that they which preached the Gospell should liue of the Gospell And in the end of that Chapter he concludeth that they are reproued which taking the milk and the wool neglected the shéepe In the third chapter he saith These be the two things which they that feede themselues and not the Sheepe do seeke the commodity of satisfying necessity and the fauour of honour and praise For by cloathing which couereth nakednesse may well be vnderstood honour such manner of honour saith hee a few lines after the same Paul had receiued from the good people of God when he said Yee receiued mee as an Angell of God I beare you witnesse that if it might be done you had pluckt out your eyes giuen them to me But when as so great honor was giuen vnto him did hee for this spare those which erred and went astray least perhaps it should be denyed him when he reproued them and he himselfe should haue lesse praise commendations if he should so haue done he should haue bene reckoned amongst those that feede themselues not the Sheepe and he would haue said within himselfe what doth this concerne mee let euery man do as best liketh him I shall bee sure of my mainetenance I shall haue milk and wooll enough let euery one shift for himselfe c. And a little after in the same Chapter the same Saint Augustine saith God forbid that wee should say vnto you liue as you list God destroyeth no man onely hold fast the Christian faith he will not destroy that which hee hath redeemed hee will not see those perish for whom hee hath shedde his bloud if you be disposed to delight your minds with shewes and sightes meaning such shewes De sin â—d catliÌ„ 2. ca. 2. as I take it as are spoken of by him in another place where chastity by their owne filthinesse is violated go your way what hurt is it goe celebrate those feasts which are frequented in â—â—ery Citty in the merry meeting of such as feast together at the common tables where men thinking to sporte and cherish themselues do rather spoile perish themselues the mercy of God is great which may pardon all crowne your selues with roses before they wither c. Which thing â—f we shall do meaning if by such spéeches we should encourage men in euill as if we should teach that Christ dyed to the end wée should not dye to sinne but liue in it still these not being the words of God not the words of Christs wee are saith he Shepheards feeding our selues and not the Sheepe In the fourth Chapter of that booke he saith De Pastor There be very few Sheepe that be fat that is sound in the word of truth vsing well the foode they haue by the gift of God but those had Shepeheards spare not these it is not onely a small matter with them to neglect the sicke the weake the wandring and lost Sheepe but therewithall as much as in them lyeth kil the strong and fat those fed Sheepe shall liue through the mercy of God yet those naughty Shepeheards kill them by their euill life and by giuing an euill example for shall we think that it was in vaine said to that seruant of God which was eminent famous among the members of the cheife Pastor * Aboue all things shew thy selfe an example of good works 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tiâ— 2.7 For euen the stronge Sheep for the most part marketh whether his naughty lyuing guide turneth away his eyes from the rules of the Lord or not and so looking vpon the man beginneth to say in his heart if my ginde feade this life what am I that I may not do as he doth If then hee kill a strong Sheepe what worke will hee make with the rest which by his euill life hath destroyed that which hee himselfe had not strengthned but perhaps found strong before I say vnto your charity though the Sheep liue and be so strong in the word of the Lord holding fast that which they haue heard from the Lord do as they say but not do â—s they do yet hée which is a bad liuer in â—he sight of the Lord as much as in him is Math. 23.3 â—illeth him that hath an eye to his life Chap. Saith he nothing of the weak â—icke 34.4 and the rest spoken of in the fourth â—erse Salt Yes in the fift chapter of the said â—ooke he saith the Sheep hath then a weak â—eart when he beleeueth not that tentations â—hall profite him and when such a weake â—â—e doth so beleeue the negligent Pastour â—oth not say vnto him sonne come to the â—eruice of God stand in righteousnesse and â—eare and prepare thy soule vnto temptation And a little after hauing set down what Christ hath suffered for vs he citeth other â—laces of holy Scripture as he thought fit â—o strengthen the weake and such as be reaâ—y to fainte in afflictions All that wil liue godly in Christ shall suffer persecution 2. Tim. 3. hee scourgeth euery sonne whom he loueth God is faithfull and will not suffer you â—o be tempted aboue that which you are â—ble to beare c. Chap. Doth he make any difference in â—hat Chapter betweene the sicke and the weake Salt Yes he saith Such as seeme to be feruent in good workes but yet not willing or not able to beare imminent passions are infirme and weak such as loue the world and by some euill desire or lust are called backe from good workes they languish are sicke Chap. Haue not others besides S. Augustine expounded that place of Exekiell Salt Yes diuers and namely one Nicholas de Lyra many of whose exposi ions are approued of the learned Chap. I pray you let me heare what he saith of this matter Salt He calleth the Pastors which be there reproued Princes meaning euil Prophets and false Prophets and saith that they then feede themselues when they so set their mindes on carnall delights that they care not for such as be commited to their charge that they eate the milke cloth themselues when they
the vnwilling saith the same book improue rebuke exhort with all long suffering and doctrine Chap. Is it with all long-suffering or with all long-silence Salt The word in the originall is Macrothumia which some translate lenity some patience and some long suffering but why do you aske Chap. If it be long-suffering then I gather that though the Shepheard should see many things that grieue him or that hee liketh not yet he must not cast of his burthen then but beare and beare long to Salt It should séeme so but let me go on without interrupting you shall now haue some Peter-Salt which if your Shepheard and all others lay to their soules they shall haue lesse cause to feare the Salt-peter men which can but kill the body The Elders or Priests as some translate which are among you saith Saint Peter I beseech 1. Pet. ◠which am also an Elder and a witnesse of the sufferings of Christ and also a partaker of the glory that shall bee reuealed Feed the flocke of God which dependeth vpon you caring for it not by constraint but willingly not for filthy lucar but of a ready minde not as though ye were Lords ouer Gods heritage but that you may bee an example to the flocke And when the chiefe Shepheard shall appeare you shall receiue an incorruptible crowne of glory Chap. Stay there this shall suffice for this time now tell mee what I haue to pay Salt I will tell you anon but first you shall haue some Salt for aduantage which may be profitable both to your selfe and your Shepheard also and that is this Obey them that haue the ouersight of you Heb. 3.17 and submit your selues 18. for they watch for your soules as they that must giue accompts that they may do it with ioy not with griefe for that is vnprofitable for you Pray for vs for wee are assured that wee haue a good conscience in all things desiring to liue honestly So much for the vantage now for the payment Wish your Shepheard from mée not to set light by this Salt in regard of my rudenesse which haue shakē it forth according to my homely manner but to consider who made it and to what end my desire is it may do him good and this is all the payment I looke for Chap. I thanke you Guid. Let God haue the thankes for the Canonicall Salt is his and not mine come now who is next Chap. Nay stay a little and answere me to one question more ere I go I had forgot to aske you who they were and where they dwelt whom Saint Peter besought to feede Gods flocke did any feede Christ his Sheep while 3. Peter liued but himselfe Guid. Yes all the rest of the Apostles for Christ our Sauiour meeting them on a mountaine in Galilee before his ascending into heauen Math. 28.16.18.19 said to the eleuen Disciples All power is giuen to mee in heauen and earth goe therefore and teach all nations c. Chap. Why is there mention made but of eleuen Disciples where was the twelfth Guid. The twelfth which was Iudas the fraytor hauing throwne downe himselfe head-long brast asunder in the middes and all his bowels gushed out Acts. 1.18 and Matthias was not chosen in his roome till after the Ascension Chap. But who were they to whom Saint Peter wrot and beseeched to feede the flock of God Guid. Saint Peter himselfe calleth them to whom hee wrot strangers which then dwelt here and there throughout Pontus Galatia Cappadocia Asia and Bithinea among whom no doubt but there were some that could or should feede 1. Pet. 1.1 for the Apostle would neuer haue besought them to do that which belonged not to them Chap. So now I pray let mee haue some of that Salt as is good to cleere the sight of our Shepheard that stumbleth so often in his going The fift Chapman Salt The very heathen may bee one Schoolemaisters as in many other things so in this also and namely Cicero who saith qui sibi hoc sumpsit vt corrigat mores aliorum c. He the hath taken vpon him to correct other mens manners and to reprehend their faults who will pardon him if in any point he faile as not regarding his duty these and the like spéeches of Heathen men if there were none other might bee motiues to stirre both my selfe and all other spirituall Salters to take heede our life bee not offensiue for the which matter among others-that be not Heathen but godly learned Christians In his Epist to the chiefe gouernor of the Schoole of Argent set before his comment on thei udges Though hee excludes workes from iustification which is free yet hee requires a pure life holy actions in him which is iustified thereby liuely to expresse God himselfe c. Peter Martyr séemed to bée very carefull who as he himselfe saith reasoned thus with himselfe If vnto all men beeing iustified onely by the mercy of the true God through Iesus Christ our Sauior not vndoubtedly by works but freely receiuing forgiuenesse of sinnes there remaineth no other thing in the course of this short life then that hauing obtained the holy Ghost and nature being somewhat relieued from his proper corruptiō they should by pure life and holy actions liuely expresse God himselfe their regenerator and Christ their redeemer The same thing without coubt is much more required of men of my profession whom the Ecclesiasticall Spirit hath appointed to administer liuely doctrine vnto other men that whilst they teach vprightly by their euill deeds they deface not the waight and authority of their doctrine which thing if they do meaning if they haue a care to liue wel they shall in the darknesse of this world most brightly giue light vnto others and cause them to lift vp the eyes of their minds vnto God the chiefe fountaine head and beginning of all good things and to honour him with praise and most vpright religion But though the Salt of Cicero a wise man among the Heathen and also this of Peter Martyr a godly and learned Diuine among the Christians be holsome and fit to season yet sithence you came for Salt Canonicall take this Therefore the sin of the yong men was very great before the Lord 1. Sam. 2.17 for men abhorred the offerings of the Lord. Chap. Who were those yong men Salt The sonnes of Eli who were called wicked men and such as knew not the Lord. Chap. So now go on Salt Wherefore the Lord God of Israell saith that thine house and the house of thy fathers should walke before mee for euer but now the Lord saith it shall not be so for them that honour me I will honour and they that despise me shall be despised and vers 30. 30 There shal not be an old man in thy house And this shall bee a signe vnto thee that shal come vpon thy two sonnes Hophni and Phyneas 1. Sam. 3◠4
and this sanctified commendation moued a learned Shepeheard â—â—ilâ— con â—es â—a paâ— 365. yet liuing in this land to say a figure of Christ erected by Gods owne commandement and seruing to put all Israels posterity in minde of the wonders which their fathers saw in the wildernesse when it was abused defaced and the fact allowed by Gods owne mouth And herein hee agréeth with another famous Shepeheard more ancient then hee by more then twelue hundred yeares who speaking of the same Serpent amongst other miracles saith Aug. de â—iuâ—e Dei l. 10. â— 8 Quem sane serpentem propter facti memoriam reseruatum cum â—upulus postea errans tanquam idolum colere caepisset Ezekias Rex religiosa potestate Deo seruiens cum magna pietatis laude contriuit which Serpent surely being reserued for a remembrance of that which was done when afterward the people erring beganne to worship it as an idoll King Ezekiah seruing God with a religious power brake it in peeces with great commendation of piety But sith you haue put mée in minde of some spéeches of that learned Shepeheard which yet liueth in the land giue me leaue to call to minde what the same man in the same booke vnder the name of Theophilus saith to Philander touching such as would subdue mens consciences to that which was flat against the expresse word of the eternall God we must not rebell saith hee and take armes against the Prince as you affirme wee may but with reuerence and humility serue God before the Prince and that is nothing against our oath And againe hee saith if you can excuse vs before God when you mis-leade vs we will serue him as you shall appoint otherwise if euery man shal answere for himselfe good reason he be maister of his owne conscience in that which toucheth him so néere and no man shall excuse him for and a little after hee hath these words The poorest wretch may bee supreme gouernour of his owne heart Princes rule the publique and externall actions of their Countries but not the consciences of men Chap. But the words of that reuerend learned Pastor are not so be taken as if hee thought it not lawfull for Christian Princes by lawes to vrge such as haue beene mis-led in superstition and Idolatrie to be hearers of Gods word which ought to guide our consciences and by which they may bee better instructed brought to a more sound and pure worshipping c. Salt No he is rather to bee thought in this case to agrée with another learned pastor Meet Moâ—â—y 〈…〉 1. who speaking of such men saith WheÌ„ they are well instructed and taught the Magistrats must compel them to sound and pure worshippings which are prescribed in holy Scriptures for the Magistrate may not suffer his Citizens to liue without exercises of godlinesse for the end of ciuill rule is that the Citizens should liue both vertuously and happely and who séeth not but that godlinesse and the worshipping of God is the cheife of all vertues But peraduenture some will say if a Prince should compel those to the right vse of the Sacraments which are not perswaded of the truth he should driue them head-long into sinne so farre is it off from setting forward their saluation wherefore I thinke it good to make a distinction betweene that which is off or by it selfe and that which is at aduenture by hap or as they are wont to speake in schooles that which commeth per accident that is by chance the Magistrate in this thing which we haue now in hand setteth forth to his subiects that thing which is of it selfe right good and iust but that sinne thereby commeth that happeneth nothing at all by his default but rather by those mens incredulity or mis-beléefe whereof hée is not to be accused when as hee hath diligently laboured to haue his Citizens well instructed neither the Papists which at this day are suffered of Christian Magistrates are ignorant that wee ought to haue in vse the Sacraments instituted by the Lord wherefore they cannot iustly complaine of their Magistrates if they will haue them vprightly and in due honour ministred vnto them moreouer they which obiect these things vnto vs must diligently marke this that by the same way we may cauill against God for hee hath set forth vnto men his law which is most perfect to be kept of them shall we say vnto him we are weake and of a corrupt and vitious nature neither can we performe thy commandements as thou coÌ„mandest whether we do against that which thou hast commanded or whether we endeauour our selues to performe that which thou hast bidden we shall euer sinne because we shall faint neither can we obey as wee should do wherefore whatsoeuer wee dee wee shal not auoide sinne If a-any brâ—â—â—lingly should speake these things against God might not he by good right answere they be iust and right which I haue set forth vnto you to her obserued but in that you are séeble and weâ—ke it ought not to by counted a fault in mee for I haue excellently holpâ—â— your weakenesse which for your sakes haue giuen my Sonne vnto the death if you shall beléeue onely in him whatsoeuer you shall not accomplish in performing my precepts it shall not bee imputed to you to euerlasting death So also may a good Prince answere I require of you those things which are written in the word of God and which are decent and 〈◊〉 edifie wherefore if your opinion or conscience be against it that is not to bee ascribed vnto me which haue diligently laboured that you might not be ignorant of the truth and miserably perish for I haue diligently séene vnto that you should be taught and instructed in the truth and so will I still goe forward in exhorting admonishing and commanding you but reade you the holy Scriptures heare your teachers and pray vnto God to open the eyes of your mindes these things if the Prince shall say vnto those men which do so cauill against him I do not sée by what right or by what meanes he can be reprehended But it returne to the Shepeheards that refuse or at least bee loath to vse the white cloake which hath another name vsurped by car-men and carters when they put on their sauecoates I pray thée tel me are they married Chap. Yes neither is it to bee thought marriage beeing honourable among all men and the forbidding of it a point of diuelish doctrine that the Shepeheard doth mislike that onely he would haue them to make choyce of such as be modest and vertuous without greedy scraping or taking any mans house ouer his head or bestowing more vpon them then is decent and necessary that by their good carrying they may do what in them lyeth to stop the mouthes of such as swell against them as misliking their marriages more then any other Not any families of Beare-wards Tinkers Pedlers and Hog-heards so trouble the common-wealth
to come to the right washing Chap. Blessed be the Lord Iesus which hath loued vs Reue. â— and washed vs in his owne bloud Salt Amen and God giue the Iewes grace to repent of their errours which are set downe by Munster in Hebrue and Lattine before S. Matthew his Gospell in Hebrew dedicated to King Henry the Eighth The ninth Chapman I Pray you make an ende with him for I cannot stay long Sal. What would you haue Chap. Salt to season one that can not be perswaded that God suffereth the Wicked to prosper and florish at any time Sal. Hold heere is for him spill it not Among my People there are found wicked Persons 〈…〉 that lay waite as he that setteth Snares They haue made a Pitte to catch men â—â— As a Cage is full of Birds so are theire Houses full of deceite thereby they are become great and wax ritch 2â— They are waxed farte and shining they oueâ—passe the deeds of the wicked the excâ—ntâ— no iudgement no not the iudgement of the Fatherlesse yet they prosper though they execute no iudement for the Poore Wherefore do the wicked liue 〈…〉 and waxe olde and growe in wealth theire seede is â—stablished in theire sight with them and theire generations before theire eyes 9 Theire Houses are peaceable without feare and the rod of God is not vpon them Theire Bullocke gendereth and fayleth not theire Cowe calueth 10 and casteth not her Calfe c. And in Ecclesiastes we finde that no man heere vnder the Sunne can discerne by prosperitie or aduersity whom God loueth or hateth and therefore it is there sayde All things come a like to all Eccle. 9.2 He speaket not of their state in the life to come for the vnbeleeuers impenitent dy eternally and the same condition is to the Iust and to the Wicked â—o the good and pure and to the polluted and to him that sacrificeth and to him that â—â—crificeth not as is the Good so is the Sinner he that sweareth as hee that feareth an oath By Sacrificing heere he meaneth a religions and sincere worshipping of God â—or many bad men did fill the Lord with â—â—crifices Which he loathed seeing no â—â—â—dement Chap. Though the wicked many times â—â—â—rish heere as much as or more then 〈◊〉 righteous yet there shal not be one conâ—â—â—ion to them both afterward Sâ—l No neyther while the Body lyeth in the dust nor after the Resurrection for the Soules of such as depart hence faythlesse and fruitlesse are tormented with such torments as cannot of vs that liue heere be comprehended and therefore for our capacitie they are expressed by bodily paines as appeareth by these wordes Send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and coole my tongue for I am tormented in this flame Saint Augustine in one of his Bookes of the City of God sheweth by the example of the rich man in Hell who spake the foresaid words that the soule sometimes féeleth paine not in corporâ— constituta not being in the body as I shewed to the first Chapman Chap. Are not the bodies of the wicked tormented before the resurrection Salt The same Augustine writing on S. Iohns Gospell hath these words Habent omnes animae cum de seculo exierint diuersas receptiones suas 〈…〉 â—raâ—â— 49. habent gaudium boni mali tormenta sed cum facta fuerit resurrectio bonorum gaudium amplius erit malorum tormenta grauiora quando cum corpore torquebuntur All soules when they go out of this world haue their diuers receptacles the good haue ioy the bad haue torments but after the resurrection the ioy of the good shal hee more and the torment of the wicked more grieuous when they shall bee tormented with the body So that the bodies are not tormented before the resurrection there can be no paine where there is no feeling Chap. What saith the Salter and seasoner of all Salters touching the Resurrection for no mans Salt is to be esteemed if it fauour otherwise then his dooth Salt He sayeth The hower shall come Ioh. 5. â—8 1. Thes â— â—â— in the which all that are in the Graues shall heare his voice which voice the Appostle calleth the voice of the Archangell And they shall come foorth that haue don good vnto the Resurrection of life But they that haue done euill vnto the Resurrection of condemnation Chap. Shall all be condemned that haue done euill Sal. Heare what the sonne of God sayth to Idolaters vnder the name of Iesabell which laboured to deceiue Gods Seruants Aug in Apocal hom 2 to make them committe fornication and to eate â—eates sacrificed to Idoles Which Iesabell the Gouernour of the Churches doe then suffer sayth Austin when vpon the â—yotous the Fornicators and other ill â—oers they lay not the seueritie of Ecclesâ—â—â—â—icall discipline I gaue her space to repent for her fornications Reu. 2. â—â— and she repented not By which words we learne that euill not repented of bringeth condemnation Chap. So this shall suffice for that matter let me haue a little more of that Salt I came for and then I will giue place to an other Sal. Hold then I fretted at the foolish 4. Psal when I sawe the prosperity of the wicked for there are no bands in theire death but they are lustie and strong They are not in trouble as other men neyther are they plagued with other men Chap. Yet many times the Lord sheweth tokens of his wrath vpon the wicked in this life Salt They which marke not that marke nothing many ruffâ—nly swearers kill one an other and so do many drunkards Many Traytors make pittes to catch themselues Many filthy Fornicators are plagued with poxe and pining Many which haue deuoured others haue beene deuoured themselues and become starke Beggers Many which haue taken a pride in their beauty haue become so deformed that they haue hid theire faces for shame Many Theeues and Murtherers which haue bound and spoyled true men haue themselues in their most lusty time mette with Fetters and Halters So that though these vngodly Persons flourish for a time yet they wither away on a sodaine for they care not a Fly for this which God threatneth by his Prophet The bloud-thirsty and deceiptfull men shall not liue out halfe their dayes The tenth Chapman VVHo comes next Chap. I doe Salt For what Chap. For Salt to season one that is giuen to sloath sleepe and idlenesse Salt I haue heere that is fitte for him Chap. What do you call it Salt It is called Salomons Salt A slouthfull hand maketh poore but the hand of the dilligent maketh ritch He that gathereth in summer is the sonâ—â— of wisedome but he that sleepeth in harâ—â— is the Sonne of confusion He that tilleth his Land shall be satisfied with Breade â—â—ou 1â— 11 but he that followeth the idle is destitute of vnderstanding The Sluggard lusteth but his Soule hath
your old Latine Edition and in other places of the New Testament so in the psalmes And comming at last to the nintie psalme hee saith Sunt huius Psalmi versus septemdecim c. There bee seauenteene verses in this psalme and I dare bee bolde to say there bee more faults in the Translation of this psalme then there bee verses in the psalme And in the same Chapter he saith Itaque vere dici potest non esse hos Dauidicos Psalmos quos illi in suis sacris lectitant atque cantitant sed Graci Latinique interpretis errores Therefore it may truely bee said that the psalmes which they vsually reade and sing in their Seruice are not Dauids psalms but the errours of the Greeke and Latine Interpreter It were heere too long to recite all the faults he setteth downe in the twelfth chapter of that second question where hee noteth many places of the New Testament corrupted in the Latine Edition Towardes the end of the Chapter hee saith hee hath chosen a fewe out of manny if hee should set downe all hee should make a Volume If you list to buy the Booke it is Intituled Disputatio de sacra scriptura c. Tract Did not he which wrote that booke finde fault with them Pag. 118. which put ipsa for ipsum in the third of Genesis verse 15 Guid. Yes for finding Hu in the Hebrew and Autos in the Greeke He saw there was no reason why it should bee translated ipsae she as if not Christ but the blessed Virgin had broken the Serpents head Speake your minde M Tract did she or our blessed Sauiour dash the Diuels power Tract She brought forth him that did it Guid. We all agree in that and therefore she may be wel called blessed being preferred through the fauour of God to such an excellent office Mad. Me thinkes learned men that agree in this that the holy Scriptures are penned by the holy Ghost and contain such things as are true should leaue publishing one anothers ouersights or whatsoeuer you list to call it and ioyne together in Christian and louing sort to set forth a sound translation It is an easie matter to espy here and theee a broken quarrell in the windowes of a great building yea and of a little house too But to builde the whole house and so to build it as it may please euery mans eye that hath skill in building is another maner of matter Guid Yea Madame if charity had once so possest our hearts as to moue vs in a brotherly sort to seeke for the truth and to worship the fountaine of our life light as he might bee pleased with vs we might sing Ecee quam bonum c. Behold how good Psal 133. c. Rom. Before wee come to singing let mee heare what men of your side say of Baptisme Guid. A reuerend Father of this Land in one of his bookes saith thus Since Children be defiled by Adam B. B. if they may not be washed by Christ the disobedience of man shall be mightier to condemnation then the grace of God and the obedience of Christ to iustification which the Scriptures reiect as a wicked absurdity Wherefore the Church absolutely and flatly may not assure saluation vnto children vnbaptized lest they seeme naturally innocent or generally sanctified without baptisme albeit their parents desiring and seeking it Note if they be preuented by naturall necessity we must leaue them to the goodnesse and secret election of God not without hope because in their parents there wanted not will but an extremity disappointed them And in the Children the let was weakenesse of Age not wickednesse of heart And so the Sacrament omitted not for any contempt of Religion but by strictnesse of time In which cases Saint Augustine saith the want of baptisme may bee supplyed if it please God c. Tract Doth not your allowed Catechisme hold Sacraments generally necessary to Saluation Guid. Yes for that which is ordained by Christ to confirme our faith c. may well bee counted needfull to Saluation generally Tract What saith your Caluin is he of no request with you now Guid. I know in what request hee is Iust cap 15. But thus hee writeth touching the matter wee haue in hand No small wrong is done to the Couenant of God if wee doe not rest in it as though it were weake in it selfe whereas the effect thereof hangeth neither vpon Bapstime nor vpon any other Additions There is afterward added to it a Sacrament like a seale not that it bringeth effectualnesse to the promise of God as to a thing weake of it selfe but onely confirmeth it to vs. Whereupon it followeth the Children of the faithfull are not therefore baptized that they may then first bee made the Children of God which before were strangers from the Church Note Not by â—aâ—ure but by promise but rather that they bee therefore receiued by a solemne signe into the Church because by the benefite of the promise they did already belong to the body of our Sauâ—our Iesus Christ c. And in the sixteenth Chapter hee saith Baptisme besides this that it is a signe to testifie religion before men sheweth first the cleansing of sinne which we obtaine of the bloud of Christ then the mortifying the flesh which standeth vpon the partaking of his death by which the faithfull are regenerate to newnesse of lifâ— receiued into the fellowship of Christ Further he saith whatsoeuer agreeth with Circumcision agreeth also with Baptisme 1. The foundation in both is one to wit Christ 2. The promises whereupon the power of the signes consist are one namely of the fatherly fauour of God of the forgiuenesse of sinnes of life euerlasting 3. The thing figured is all one in both to wit regeneration Tract What else haue you of his Guid. Fateor oblatam scandali occasionem Epist resp si infans c. I confesse there is an occasion of scandall or offence offered to all the godly if by thy slackenesse or negligence the infant depart without Baptisme Wherefore not onely are they not to be borne withall which neglect baptisme but they also are not to be allowed which through a certaine boasting and for ostentations sake do long protract the administratioÌ„ of an holy thing But the infant by that meanes is depriued of the signe of health to with Baptisme yet I deny that his state is any thing the worse before God for albeit Baptisme be a seale of our adoption yet we are writteÌ„ in the book of life both by the grace of God and also by his promise For tell mee for what cause our children are saued but by that word Ego sum Deus seminis tui Gen 17.7 I am the God of thy seed and except that word did appertalne vnto them they were not to bee admitted vnto Baptisme Now if their saluation stayeth it selfe on the promise of God and that foundation bee fit of
it selfe wee are not to thinke that all children doe perish that depart this life without Baptisme for so vnder the commendation of that signe of the grace of God God himselfe should be wronged and reproued and wee should derogate from his truth as if our safety propped with his promise weare not sufficiently â—orne vp Sith then there is no contempt of Baptisme found in thee the want thereof could not hurt the infant which deceased before thou couldst conueniently offer it to Baptisme Tract Then belike he would not forbid such to bee buryed among Christians but saith hee nothing of baptizing of the children of those whom hee calleth Papists Guid. Yes I remember in a certaine Epistle to a friend of his touching that matter he saith The promise not onely comprehendeth the issue of each faithfull man in the first degree Pag. 322 in Folio but is extended to a thousand generations whereby also it commeth to passe that the iuterruption of piety which was rife or had spred farre in the Papacy hath not taken away the force and efficacy of Baptisme for the originall is to bee regarded and the nature of Baptisme is to bee esteemed by the promise Wee therefore doubt not that the progeny of great grandfathers which were godly men doe belong to the body of the Church though their grandfathers or fathers were Apostataes These be the speaches of that Caluin whose doctrine Deane Gifford calleth psuedneuangelium a false Gospell and saith that in many points it is worse and more wicked then the Alcoron of the Turks See the exact disou pâ—inted sidce the fift â—f Nou. 1605. pag. 2. 3. but whatsoeuer any of them say of this reuerend learned man if you list to reade any of his workes you shall finde that hee goeth not about to draw men to like of this or that point of doctrine with shew of words onely but setteth downe his reasons also Tract If he should not do so his doings were but dotage in the iudgement of Saint Austin who saith Verba iactare nihil probare Cònt lit petil li 2 ca. 34. quid est nisi delirare To brag with words and proue no iote What is it else but euen to dote Rom. I pray you one word cozen sith you haue named Saint Austin tell me whether he were of this minde that all which are baptized are saued Tract I know hee thinketh hardly of such as depart this life without it vrging much these words Except a man be borne of water and the Spirit c. taking the word water in another sense then some doe but what hee saith touching your question is now out of my head therefore I leaue it to M. Guid-well Guid. Writing against Chrestonius hee saith Baptismus est sacramentum nouae vitae ac salutis aeternae quem multi habent non ad vitam aeternam sed ad paenam aeteruam non bene vtentes tanto bono Rom. I pray you English it I am neuer the neerer for the Latin Guid. What be you the better then for hearing a Latine Masse or a Latine Mattins Rom. It may bee we haue it in English now Guid. If you haue you may thanke the Protestants which haue so oft vrged that of Paul Let all things be done to edifying 1. Cor. 14. and againe yet had I rather in the Church to speake fiue words with mine vnderstanding that I might also instruct others c. Tract Come I know what D. Harding saith of that matter but let that goe and English S. Austins words Guid Thus it is Baptisme is a Sacrament of new life and eternall saluation the which many haue not to euerlasting life but to euerlasting paine not well vsing such an excellent thing And in his first Booke against the same man Aug. cont Cres gram li. 1. ca. 34. he saith these words Quod licet sanctum sit neque vllo modo praetermitendum quoniam sacratissima significatione praepollet quam multi cam tamen accipiunt non solum boni qui secundum propositum vocati sunt conformes imagini Filij Dei sed etiam ij qui regnum Dei non possidebunt in quibus sicut dicit Apostolus ebriosi auari numerantur The which thing speaking of visible Baptisme although it be holy and by no meanes to bee omitted because it hath a most sacred signification yet very many take it not onely the good which are called of purpose conformed to the image of the Sonne of God but also such as shall not possesse the kingdome of God among which as the Apostle saith are reckoned both drunkard and the couetous In the twentieth one booke of the Citty of God he asketh what it auaileth any man to be baptized if he bee not iustified Did not hee which said nisi quis renatus c. Except a man bee borne againe of water and of the spirit hee cannot enter into the Kingdome of God say also Except your righteousnesse exceede the righteousnesse of the Scribes and Pharisies yee shall not enter into the Kigdome of heauen Cur illud timendo c. why are many through feare of the first speach carefull to be baptized and not many through feare of the latter carefull to be iustified and writing against Petilians letters he saith Li. 2.19 Cont. lit Pet. that Baptisme being but one the iust haue it to saluation the vniust to destruction Rom. Inough of that now tell mee I pray you if hee affirme any to haue had the holy Ghost before Baptisme Guid. Hee affirmeth so much of that as he hath warrant from the Canonicall Scriptures for in the saide second Booke Ca 39. against Petilian he saith In Centum viginti homines Acts 1 15. 2.4 c. Vpon those hundred and twenty men the holy Ghost came without imposition of any mans hand But vpon Cornelius and those that were with him Etiam pruisquam Baptizarentur A 10 44 Euen before they were Baptized Tract By the Holy Ghost in those places may be vnderstood some guifts of the Spirit as to Prorhecie to speake with Tongues c. For in the 2. of the Acts the 4. verse it is saide They were all filled with the holy Ghost and began to speake with other tongues as the Spirit gaue them vtterance And in the tenth Chapter we reade that while Peter spake these words meaning those words in the verse 43. To him also giue all the Prophets witnesse that through his name all that beleeue in him shall receiue remission of sinnes with other verses afore going the holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word For saith the 46. verse They heard them speake with tongues and magnifie God Sith you are gone so farre in this matter I pray you Maister Guidewel tel me were are all the Elect baptized I meane since Christ his time for before they vsed Circumcision my Couzen saith Guid. I might tell you many things if I were one of Gods
Cornes that is bread without the very meale or very substance of the very Corne. I call it meale for their sakes who do not well vnderstand the difference betwixt the substance accidents although I know that neither the meale nor the bread is séene but ratione accidentis by reason of the colour c. Tract I grant it is Bread and Wine before the blessing and consecrating not after Guid. This answere will not serue your turne nor yet your saying It is done by miracle and power diuine which is your vltimum refugiuÌ„ your last refuge for Christ commended not his Body to his Disciples till after hee had blessed and broken as you may sée in that vulgar Edition which you chiefely regard Et manducantibus illis accepit Iesus panem benedicens hee vseth the present tense because Latine Articles haue no Participles Preters or Aorists as the Gréeke hath Fregit dedit eis And they eating or as they did eate Iesus tooke bread and blessing or hauing blessed hee brake and gaue to them Et ait sumite hoc est corpus meum And he said Take yee this is my body Where you sée that transstation leaueth out the word Comedite Eate yee Mar. 14.22 which Erasmus hath because hee findeth in that place of Saint Marke not onely 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but also 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Take yee eate yee Tract But I maruell Erasmus translateth Eulogesas cum gratias egisset Guid. It may be for that hee found the word Eulogesas hauing blessed but once to wit in Saint Marke Eucharistesas hauing giuen thankes Mar. 14.22 Mat. 26 26.27 Mar. 14.23 Luke 22.17.19 1. Cor. 11.24 some some sire times twice in Matthew once in Marke before the giuing of the Cuppe where your vulgar Edition also hath gratias ageÌ„s giuing thanks twise in Luke and once in Saint Paul I meane where all these speake of the Lords Supper Rom. I maruell why you call it the Lords Supper rather then the Masse Guid. Because it was instituted at supper time and that which Saint Paul calleth Curiacon Deipnon your vulgar Edition translateth Dominicam Coenam the Lords Supper Rom. Is that true Cozen Tract Yes Guid. He may not deny it no more then he may deny that Saint Austin saith Locutio de gen Multum haec locutio notanda est c. This maner of speaking is much to bee noted when some things signifying are called by the names of the things which they signifie Herehence it is that the Apostle saith 1. Cor 10.4 and the rocke was Christ hee doth not say the rocke doth signifie noting that to bee his meaning that the rocke doth signifie Christ though he said the rocke was Christ euen as though it bee said This is my Couenant Gen. 17 10. it is the Lords Passeouer Ex. 12 11 Gen. 41.26 The thrée branches are thrée dayes Gen. 40.12 Eze. 37 11 Reu. 1 20 Reu 12.15.16 The seuen Starres are the Angels of the seuen Churches The seuen Candle-stickes are the seuen Churches The ten hornes which thou sawest are ten Kings The waters which thou sawest c. are people multitudes The ten Hornes c. are they that shall hate the Whore The Woman which thou sawest is the great Cittie which reigneth ouer the Kings of the earth Yet by is and are is ment doe signifie Rom. But what do you bring out of any Fathers touching This is my Body Saint Augustine sayth The Lord doubted not to say Hoc est Corpus meum Cum signum darit Corporis sui This is my Body when he gaue a signe of his Body Tract I thinke you found these words in the conference had in the Tower with our Campion the 23. of September in the afternoone 1581. Guid. Though I haue seene that conference yet I found these words not onely there but in S. Austin his own booke against Adimantus a disciple of Manicheus chap 12 The Manichies as apeareth by the chapter would needs find a â—arre betwixt that place in the old Testament where bloud is forbidden to be eaten because it is Anima the life or the soule of the flesh and that place of the new Testament where we are forbidden to feare them the kill the Body but cannot hurt the Soule herehence they reason thus If the bloud be the soule how is it that men haue such power ouer it c. they cast it to Dogges to Foules they poure it on the ground they mingle it with dirt and mire They adde also this that the Apostle saith Flesh Bloud shall not possesse the kingdome of God Then if the bloud be the soule say they then no Soule shall be found able Regnum dei adipisci to attaine to the Kingdome of God To this cauill S. Austin answereth first in effect thus That they cannot shew in any booke of the old Law where the Soule of man is said to be Bloud And afterwards towards the middle of the Chapter he hath these words For of that which is written Sanguinem pecoris animam eius esse that the bloud of a Beast is the Soule thereof besides that which I haue said before the it pertayneth nothing to me Quid agatur de pecoris anima what becoÌ„meth of the soule of a Beast I may also interpet that precept In signo esse positum to be put in the signe or to be vnderstod of the signe as it S. Austin should say whereas it is forbidden in the lawe to eate bloud because it is the life or soule By saying it is the life he meaneth it is the signe of life Nonenim dubitauit dominus dicere hoc est corpus meum cum signum daret corporis sui For our Lord doubted not to say this is my Body when he gaue a signe of his body touching that other place Flesh and bloud shall not inherit the kingdome of God After he hath saide somewhat of the change which shall be in the resurrection where they marry not but are as the Angels he commeth at length to these words of the Apostle For this corruptible must put on incorruption and this mortall immortality Tract I should be more easily drawen to fauour this your opinion if I could heare that Christs Vickar did fauour it Guid. You talke much of Christ his Vicar Doe you receiue or refuse any doctrine according as this or that man of whome you haue a good opinion liketh or disâ—yketh it You should rather search whether the word of God whereon your faith ought to be grounded doth warrant it yea or no As all Kings so all Bishops of Rome are not of one minde in euery thing If you tye your faith to the Coach of mens opynions then when that Coach runs eastward your fayth must runne with it if that runne westward then your faith must runne with it if that runne westward then your faith runneth the way vp hill and downe hill turning winding as the
grownd in his sacke should put of his cap make a legge and thanke the mill and so take vp his sacke go his way neuer thinking on the mil-wright that made the mil or on the miller that set it on worke though I say these erred worshipping the creatures in steed of the Creator yet in my simple iudgement hee that reasoneth thus these things do mee good and were not made by men therefore they are Gods doth reason more wisely then he that saith Sun Moone and starres keepe their course giue vs light the fire doth heate mee the raine helpeth my corne grasse to grow these are not Gods therefore there is no mighty power that worketh by them How sayest thou Chapman doth not the first reason more wisely then the latter Chap. The reason of the first seemeth to haue more force then the latter yet I may not grant it to be wiser vnlesse the first were wise but I cannot grant the former to bee wise vnlesse I would therewithall grant that there is wisedome in worshipping the workes in steed of the worke-maister but I haue no more reason to grant that then to yeeld to the Atheist that religion sprang froÌ„ policy for if that were true the inuentors of it should be called fainers or lyars Salt Lactantius Deâ—lra dei cap. 10. versus finem an ancient and learned writer saith that opinion is false by which men thinke that religion was instituted by wise men terroris metus gratia * To keepe men in awe as the vulgar Atheist speaketh for terrour and feare sake through which the ignorant might abstaine from sinne which if it were true saith he then are we derided by ancient wise-men who if they forged Religion to deceiue vs and all mankinde they were not wise because a lye is not found in a wise-man but how wise soeuer they were how came they by so great felicity in lying that not onely they deceiâ—ed the vnlearned but Socrates also and Plato and so easily deluded Pithagoras Zeno and Aristotle the Authors of the greatest sects Chap. Howsoeuer others might fayne Lact. de falsa Religione c. 4. I do not thinke the Prophets were such Salt To haue a will to faine any lye saith the aforesaid Authour belongeth to them which be still raking of riches and gaâ—ing for gaine Ibid paulo ante which things without doubt there far from those holy men * which set forth one God and beeing guided by the spirit of the same God spake one thing who not onely had no gaine saith hee towards the end of the same Chapter but torments and death and he addeth this reason for the precepts of iustice are bitter to the vitious and bad-liuers and therefore after they had cruelly tormented such as reproued and spake against their sinnes they killed them Chap. What if any Pagan should say to vs that professe the Christian Religion you Christians haue fained that which you haue set forth and to the end men might more bee moued to giue credit you do with one consent write that all those things were fore-told long before Salt Saint Augustine vpon the 8. 〈◊〉 Iohn saith Tract 45. that against such Pagan enimies the should so say we haue haue the testimonies of other enemies proferimus codices a Iudaeis we bring forth bookes from thâ— Iewes wee answere both they you arâ— enimies to our faith therefore are they dispearsed amongst the nations that we may conuince one enemy by another Let the booke oâ— Esay be brought forth by the Iewes let vs seâ— if I do not read there Isay 53.7 He is brought aâ—â— sheepe to the slaughter Chap. 53. Chap. Are there none that write oâ— this one God but the Prophets and other holy men named in the Scriptures Salt You forget your selfe you told mâ— you would haue Canonicall Salt for your Atheist why then doe you aske for other belike you meane to giue him a preparatiue before you giue him a quicke purge whom do you meane The Fathers that wrote after the Apostles time or some other among the heathen before Christ his incarnation if you meane these last-named then know you that Lactantius setteth downe some spéeches of Trismegistus De fal relig ca. 6. and the Sibylls touching one God Chap. What was that Trismegistus and those Sibylls Salt Cicero bringeth in Cotta disputing against the Stoicks touching religions and the varieties of the opinions which are wont to bee concerning the Gods there were saith Cotta fiue Mercuries whereof the first was he that slew Argus and so fled into Egypt and deliuered vnto them lawes and letters This man the Egyptians call Thoth Some of our Prognost say they call Iuly Thoth Prog. 1610. of whom the first moneth of their yeare that is September is named c. This man being furnished of all kind of learning was for his great knowledge sur-named Trismegistus thrise greatest as some with vs by such as dedicate bookes to them are called thrise Noble thrise vertuous c. Chap. Well what saith that great learned man Salt 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. But God is one Lact. de fals relig ca. 6. Lact de verâ— sap ca. 6. and one needeth no name and againe saith he 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. The Lord and Creator of all things whom we thinke good to call God c. Chap. Now to the Sibylls what were they and what say they Salt Varro who as Lactantius saith was as learned a man as euer liued among the Greekes and Lattines De fal relig ca. 6. affirmeth that the Sibylline bookes or workes that beare the name of Sibilla were not made of one Sibylla but were so called because all Prophetesses in time of old were called Sibylls either from the name of one Sibyll that was at Delphis or for the denouncing the counsaile of the gods For in Arolikes speech they call the gods 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and counsell not 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 but 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Now there were tenne of these Sibylls whereof the fift was Erythraea shee in the verses that were brought to Rome hath these words 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 One God which alone passing all magnitude vncreated These Sibylls haue written many things touching our Sauiour Christ his miracles sufferings resurrection and comming to iudgement as is to be séene in the said Lactantius out of whom Saint Augustine citeth many spéeches of the said Sibylls especially of Erythraea the first letters of whose Greeke verses touching Christ his comming to iudgement make these words in Lattin Iesus Christus Dei filius saluator Iesus Christ the Sonne of God our Sauiour Chap. Haue you read these words in S. Augustine or do you finde them in Phillip of Morney his booke Salt What if I had read it in any of his bookes will you not giue as much credit vnto him as vnto me which in
snátch away their goods to maintaine their owne diet and rayment that they kill the fat when they lay heinous matters and capitall crimes to the charge of the richer sort that so they may come by their substance that they feede not the flock by example of good life with the word of sound doctrine that they strengthned not the weake when they laboured not to hinder those which are prone apt to vice the they healed not the sicke when they did reuoke call backe such as were accustomed to euil the they bound not vp such as were broken through impatiency wheÌ„ they did not kindly comfort them that they caused not such as went astray to returne when they brought not againe to the true worshipping of God that which was driuen away from it by idolatry that they sought not that which was lost when they did not raise vp such as despared by promising them parâ—on through the mercy of God that they ruled them with cruelty when they laid such burthens vpon them as they were not able to beare that the Shéep were dispersed without a Shepheard when they were scattered through diuers vices wanting good gouernment teaching that they were deuoured of all the beasts of the field when they became a prey for diuels cruell aduersaries such as were the Assirians and Chaldeans Chap. I see diuers men haue diuers expositions Salt They may so and all profitable so long as they swerue not from the Analogy of that faith and doctrine which is taught in holy writ but if you will haue any more 〈◊〉 Ezechiels salt here it is Thus saith the Lord God Eze. 34.10 Behold I come against the Sheepheards and will require the sheepe at their hand and cause them to cease from feeding the sheepe Chap. Stay salter stay Salt Why so Chap. Tell mee I pray thee why doth the Lord say hee will cause them to cease from feeding if they feede themselues and not the flocke they need not be stayed but rather spurred Salt If one should take vpon him to make you a watch which when you haue tryed it you finde to bee starke nought would not you say this man shall make me no more watches Chap. Yes Sal. But your meaning is hee should marre you no more for though he tooke vpon him to make a good one yet hee made 〈◊〉 had one and that is marring Chap. True Salt So many stand in the place of watchmen which winke when they should wake and many in the roome of féeders which rather serue then féede the meaning therfore of the Lord is this he wil not suffer them to féede his Shéepe in such sort any longer Chap. Answere 〈◊〉 to one question more then I wil trouble you with no more questions In the foresaid Chapter as I remember the Lord saith And yee my sheep the sheepe of my pasture are men are all men the Lords sheep Salt Hearken what hee himselfe hath said by the mouth of his onely Sonne Io 10 27 28 My sheepe heare my voyce and I know them and they follow me Chap. No doubt but it shall go wel with such sheepe Salt Marke what followeth And I will giue vnto them eternall life and they shall neuer perish neither shall any man plucke them out of my hand Chap. I see then if one will bee a true member of Christ and enioy life euerlasting he must heare Christ his voyce and follow him But what if some Iudas preach must I follow him Salt Sée you forget your selfe you told mee you would trouble mee with no more questions take heed you be not one of those that are more forward in asking questions then obeying precepts They which heard Iudas were not to follow him in treason Math. 10.4 Mat 14.17 he wrought to his owne condemnation but in the doctrine he taught for their saluation for he was sent 〈◊〉 â—â—ch as well as Peter Math. 6.16 who was not to be followed when hee cursed and sware that hee knew not the man but in confessing Christ to be the sonne of the liuing God Chap. If Peter bee not to bee followed when he did euill why should wee follow any man that is a Deputy for the Diuill If any man dispensed with this late pestilent practise with powder hee deserueth rather to be called a searcher for salt-peter then a successor of Peter and not a Vicar of Christ but an aid to Antichrist but let these Salt-peter-men goe or rather shut them vp lest they worke our woe and let me haue some more of that salt for which I came Salt You shall I will giue you pastors according to mine heart Iet 3 15 they shall féede you with knowledge and vnderstanding happy are they friend Chapman that haue such Pastors These are not like those watchmen and Pastors which are pictured by the Prophet Isaiah Isai 56 10. where hee saith their Watchmen are all blinde 11 they haue no knowledge they are all dumbe dogges they cannot barke they lye and sléepe and delight in sléeâ—ing and these gréedy dogges can neuer haue inough and these Shepheards cannot vnderstand for they all looke to their owne way euery one for his aduantage and for his owne purpose Chap. If any man in the feare of God in a charitable sort should cast this salt vpon any to season them being drowsie dumbe and too greedy ought any man in anger to call him barking dogge and to reckon him in the number of those whom the Apostle meaneth when he saith Beware of Dogges Salt To this I answere that I feare me there is too much doggishnesse euery where For God for his tender mercies sake giue vs more charitable hearts one towards another Loue which is the badge of Christianity is lost wee had néed make haste to séeke it lest the anger of God take vs away before we can finde it Chap. You say well but let mee haue a little more Salt Take heede therefore vnto your selues Act. 10 2â— and to all the flocke whereof the holy Ghost hath made you ouerseers to seede the Church of God which he hath purchased with his owne bloud Let no man despise thy youth but be vnto theÌ„ that beleeue an example in word 1. Tim. 4 1â— in Conuersation in Life in Spirit in Faith and in purenesse Till I come giue attendance to reading to exhortation to doctrine take héede vnto thy selfe vnto learning continue therein for in so doing thou shalt saue thy selfe and them that heare thee Chap. If it bee so it is good for a Pastour to bee painefull and carefull to bring men to Christ which saueth but go on Salt I charge thee therefore before God and before Iesus Christ 2. Tim. 4. â— which shall iudge the quicke and the dead at his appearing and in his Kingdome Preach the word be instant in season to the willing saith the former booke de Pastoribus and out of season that is to