these five Years E. D. I do not doubt then but that you are a good Proficient by this time in our English Tongue F. P. Truly Sir I have nothing to boast of in this regard for whether it be the hardness of the English Tongue or the thickness of my Scull I know not but so it is that I can onely make a shift to speak some broken English E. D. Don't say so Sir methinks you speak very intelligibly and proper enough for a Foreigner I can understand you very well and if you please to enter with me for this is my House I shall be glad to have some further discourse with you F. P. Sir I accept of your kindness and if you please to shew me the way I shall follow you E. D. Sir you are very heartily welcome I am glad to see you here be pleas'd to take a Seat Pray Sir how do you like our Countrey F. P. Extraordinary well Sir and were it not for the unhappy Divisions that are amongst you especially in matters of Religion I should have reason to believe this with the adjoining Islands to be the Insulae Fortunatoe or happy Islands of the Antients E. D. I perceive Sir you are sensible then of the Divisions that are amongst us F. P. Ay Sir I am but too well inform'd of them and indeed very sadly concern'd to see that Protestants cannot agree amongst themselves which certainly casts a great blemish upon the Reformation E. D. So it doth indeed Sir and you may thank the Church of England for it F. P. Why the Church of England Sir E. D. Because 't is She has refused all terms of Accommodation that we Protestant Dissenters as they call us have offer'd to her F. P. I never heard that she had refused any But pray Sir be pleas'd to let me know what those terms are that you have offer'd her and she hath refused E. D. We have propounded to her the laying aside of the Common-prayer and parting with her Ceremonies and for other things we might probably comply with them F. P. But Sir are you sure that what you demand is reasonable and may justly be granted E. D. Without doubt she may and she ought and she can do no less for us than to wave her Popish Common-prayer-book and cast off her superstitious Ceremonies F. P. Pray Sir let me beg of you to acquaint me what you have to object against the Common-prayer and afterwards if the time gives leave I shall be glad to hear what you have to alledge against our Church-Ceremonies E. D. That I will Sir and shall do it the more freely because I should be glad to undeceive you for I perceive by your discourse you are one of that Party F. P. To deal sincerely with you Sir I am a Member of the Church of England but withall a true friend to Dissenters and I hope you will be so too if in Answering your Objections I can convince you that the Common-prayer of the Church is very good and edifying and her Ceremonies lawfull and decent E. D. I shall consider what you have to say F. P. But Sir it lies at your door to begin by propounding your Objections against the Common-prayer E. D. I have many things to object against that Idol And in the first place I think it ought to be taken away because it is unlawfull to have a set Form of Prayer impos'd upon the Church F. P. Either you or I Sir are strangely mistaken in this point for I must own that my Judgment always hath been that it is not onely lawfull to have a set Form of Prayer in the Church but what is more that no Church can well be without one E. D. Pray how so Sir For if I be not greatly mistaken you speak now against the General sense of the French Protestants for I never heard that they had any set Forms of Prayer F. P. I perceive Sir you have been ill inform'd concerning these matters for the truth is we French Protestants have a common-prayer-Common-prayer-book which was compos'd by Calvin himself and therein we agree with the concurring practise of the Universal Church for I never read or heard of any Church in the World but had a set Form of Prayer so that for you to oppose it is no less than to deny the Authority Testimony and Practise of all the Saints of the Old and New Testaments both Prophets and Apostles and the express Command of our Saviour himself and in a word Sir you condemn the general sense and practise of Christianity and the Holy Catholick Church E. D. I hear what you say Sir and expect you should prove it F. P. Nay more than this you contradict the Example of our great Lord and Master the Founder of our Religion and the Author and Finisher of our Faith E. D. This is a high Charge indeed but pray be pleas'd to make it out F. P. That I will Sir First I say that you contradict the Authority and Practice of the Prophets in the Old Testament forasmuch as it is evident that they made use of set Forms of Prayer and had a particular Command so to doe to be convinc'd of this be pleas'd to reade the 26th Chapter of Deuteronomy from Verse 13. to 16. and the 14th Chapter of Hosea beginning at the second Verse Take with you words and turn unto the Lord and say unto him c. and the 2d of Joel Verse 17. Let the Priests the Ministers of the Lord weep between the Porch and the Altar and let them say Spare thy people O Lord c. Secondly You contradict the Command of our Lord and Saviour and the Practice of the holy Apostles which I prove from the 11th Chapter of St. Luke the 1st and 2d Verses where we reade that one of our Saviour's Disciples asked him in the Name of all his Companions to teach them to pray as John had taught his Disciples whereupon our Saviour addressing himself to all his Disciples said When ye pray say Our Father c. From whence I infer these two things First That the Apostles had a set Form of Prayer prescrib'd them by Christ himself for it is impossible to order any Form in more plain and express terms than our Saviour makes use of in recommending this Prayer to his Disciples Secondly I conclude from hence that the Disciples made use of this Form which will not be question'd if we consider the great desire they shewed to obtain this Form of Prayer from our Saviour and the readiness wherewith they always obeyed the Commands he laid upon them So that this cannot but be a sufficient proof to any thinking Man that when they prayed they made use of this Form or Prescription their blessed Lord and Master had at their request given them with this express Command When you pray say Our Father c. 3. You oppose the General Practice of Christendom and of the Holy Catholick Church because neither your self nor any
Man else can give an instance of any Church in the World from the Apostles times to these our days but what had a set Form of Prayers for though all have not used the same yet there is no Church but has used some Form or other 4. You condemn the Example and Practice of our dear Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ himself for it is evident that he himself made use of a Form of Prayer Matt. 26. v. 44. E. D. I will not undertake now to return you a particular Answer to what you have here alledged but shall onely say that Praying by a Form has by experience been found a hindrance and obstacle to true fervent Prayer in the Spirit and to deal plainly with you this seems to be one great reason why the Ministers of the Church of England are so dull and ignorant in this point and so little acquainted with spiritual Prayer F. P. I am not a little surpriz'd at this your Answer for having but just now proved to you that the Prophets and Apostles the Holy Catholick Church and Christ himself made use of Forms of Prayer you after all this come and tell me that Praying by Forms is a hindrance to Praying by the Spirit which is as much as to say that neither the prophets Apostles the Catholick Church nor Christ himself prayed by the Spirit because they made use of a set Form which is a near step to Blasphemy E. D. I did not design to say so much neither though I must confess that Praying by a set Form seems to me for I find it so by experience to be a great Obstacle to true spiritual Prayer F. P. Though it may seem so to you yet your Charity should lead you rather to question your own Judgment than to pass so rash a Censure upon the Saints of the Old and New Testament yea upon Christ himself besides you ought to be very wary of exposing your self to the derision of all men by supposing your self wiser than all the Prophets and Apostles than the whole Christain Church and Christ himself since it is most certain that they made use of Forms and not onely so but our Saviour himself prescribed a Form of Prayer to his Disciples commanding them when they prayed to use the same which he would never have done had it indeed been so great a hindrance to servent Prayer by the Spirit as you pretend E. D. If it be not a hindrance to others I am sure 't is so to me F. P. I hope I shall understand you better if you please to explain to me what you mean by praying by the Spirit E. D. I suppose no true Christian can be ignorant of what Praying by the Spirit is and therefore I can't see any necessity there is of explaining a thing so obvious to the understanding of all F. P. Since you seem unwilling to give me your meaning I am very free to give you mine to pray by the Spirit is as I take it to pray by the help and assistance of the Holy Ghost so as to have our hearts and minds deeply affected with the sense of our wants and all our Faculties and Affections inflamed with the Love of God and stedfast Faith in his Promises E. D. I perceive we do not disagree at all in the meaning of the words F. P. I am glad we are so far agreed for it is evident that according to this meaning of the words a set Form of Prayer is so far from being a hindrance that indeed it is a great help to fervent praying by the Spirit and on the contrary Extemporary Prayer must needs be a great impediment to it To convince you of this I desire you would consider that when we pray by a Form we have more time to study the import of our Requests and to weigh and examine every Petition with greater attention we have more leisure to understand and discern our wants and to present them before God we can the better prepare and dispose our selves for so holy a Duty and in a word we can be more intent and recollected to improve the motions of the Spirit having nothing else to doe but to fix our mind wholly on God whilst we are praising of him and have our hearts suitably affected with the things we pray for Whereas in Extemporary Prayer the mind of the Minister or whoever else it is that prayeth is taken up in hunting for expressions to utter his thoughts and for fear of being put to a stand he is forced to follow not the motions of the Spirit or the dictate of his understanding but the fluency of an acquired habit of Praying and by this means doth often begin where he should end and end where he should begin And those very men that speak so much against the necessary and edifying Repetitions that we use in our Common-prayer do very frequently in their Extemporary-prayer repeat the same things over and over again though it may be in different expressions And as for the People that hear a Minister pray an Extemporary-prayer as they do not know before-hand what he will say they must first attend to what he saith in the next place they must consider whether what he prayeth be according to the Word of God and fit for them to join with but whilst the Hearer is thus employ'd he that prays is got to another thing and leaves his Hearers behind to overtake him as they best can which according to my apprehension makes the way of praying extempore so difficult and uneasie that it is morally impossible for both Minister and People to pray so devoutly or at least so understandingly as they ought to doe If you please well to weigh and consider what I have here offered I question not but you will be convinced that a set Form of Prayer is so far from being a hindrance that it is a great furtherance to zealous praying by the Spirit whereas the Prayer you are so much taken with is indeed a great obstacle to it E. D. However Sir I suppose you will grant me that it is this tying themselves up to a Form that hath made the Ministers of the Church of England so dull and devoid of the Gift of Prayer that they cannot pray without Book and may rather be compar'd to those Dumb dogs whom the Prophet reproves than be look'd upon as Ministers of the Gospel F. P. Though I am a Stranger here yet I have very good reason to believe that I am better acquainted with the Ministers of the Church of England than you are and am better inform'd of their parts and abilities than you can be for I have made it my business to be acquainted with them not maliciously to slander and abuse them but to the end I might the better understand and value them and profit by them And if you will give me leave to speak my Judgment which is not grounded upon hear-say but upon good knowledge of and converse with
them I must render them this true and unbiass'd testimony That of all the Clergy I ever was acquainted with they are the most Learned and Godly E. D. You are a French man Sir and therefore I suppose that much of this may pass for Compliment F. P. I am indeed a French-man by birth but yet I value my self upon this account that in heart and affection I am a hearty true English-man And fince you are pleas'd to look upon my judgment of the English Clergy no better than a Compliment I challenge you to tell me what Nation in the World can boast of having such great and worthy Divines as we have E. D. Pray how comes it to pass then that they cannot pray F. P. Who told you they could not Sure I am that they both can and do pray and that so excellently that as they surpass those of other Nations for Learning so likewise in Devotion and the Gift of Prayer and if you had taken time to peruse their Books of Devotion you would never have told me as you do That the prescribing of a Form of Prayer has been the occasion why the Ministers of the Church of England are become so dull and ignorant even to that excess that they cannot pray E. D. However I think they are much to blame for that in their Pulpits if they pray at all they dispatch them in so few words that any one that hears them will be apt to conclude they cannot pray but should you once come to our Meetings ay there you would hear Praying indeed F. P. I will not deny but that commonly our Clergy in the Pulpit use onely a short Prayer before Sermon but don 't at all deserve to be blam'd but rather to be commended for so doing if we consider first that our Clergy chuse to make use of a short Prayer onely before Sermon because they have found by wofull Experience that long extemporary Prayers have begot in most People a dislike of the Common-prayer and consequently have been the occasion of those unchristian Animosities Schisms and Divisions that are so rife amongst us And I think you have no just reason to blame this pre-caution of theirs till you have made out first that the People doe well to undervalue and despise the Common-prayer and that the Aversion they have for it is a sufficient ground for Schism and Division A second reason why the Ministers of the Church of England use such short Prayers is that by this means they may condescend to the weakness of the People lest an over-long Prayer should weary those who have already attended upon and join'd their hearts and voices with the publick Prayers offer'd up to God by the Church And in the third and last place we shall find that there is nothing good or usefull for us which the Minister hath not already prayed for nor any thing evil or hurtfull which he has not deprecated in the publick Prayers appointed by the Church which methinks might at least lessen the fault of our Clergy in your sight and somewhat allay the bitterness of your Censure against them And as for your Meetings where you tell me there is Praying indeed I must freely tell you that though I never was at any Meeting in my life yet I have often had an opportunity of hearing your Ministers pray but forasmuch as my temper doth not incline me and my Religion much less to pass any offensive Reflexion upon any sort of People therefore I humbly crave leave to be excus'd from giving you my opinion of them E. D. Though I cannot but approve of your Modesty in this regard yet I should be glad to have you speak out and therefore I desire you to tell me freely from your heart what you think of them and whether they do not pray very well F. P. Because you urge me I shall in compliance with your desires tell you and that with all the truth and sincerity imaginable that I am so far from liking their unpremeditated extemporary Prayers that I altogether disapprove them and above all am much offended at their way of praying E. D. Sure you don't speak from your heart now as I desired you would for if you did you could not say so since it is certain that they pray incomparably better than any of your Church-men one of their unpremeditated Prayers being far beyond all the Prayers that are in your common-prayer-Common-prayer-book F. P. Good Sir I must entreat you for once to lay aside all your Prejudices and to make use of your Reason so far as to consider whether it be not morally impossible that men who never were brought up in an University and scarcely ever had the full instruction of a Grammar-school which may be said of the most of your Ministers should without any premeditation pray incomparably better than our Church-men who have had the best means and opportunities in the World to improve their parts and abilities And whether an extemporary Prayer whined out I beg your pardon if that word offend you by an illiterate man should infinitely surpass all the Prayrs of the common-prayer-Common-prayer-book which have been compiled by some of the wisest and most Judicious Divines that ever England could boast of E. D. How strangely you talk now as if it were impossible for any man to pray well that hath not been bred at the Universities F. P. You mistake me Sir this was none of my assertion I onely said it was morally impossible that illetrate men should pray incomparably better than those that have been brought up at the Universities whose whole business and employment it is to understand the Scripture and to be conversant in those studies that most conduce to true Godliness which surely are the best means to teach them to pray also E. D. But the Apostles you know were simple illiterate men and yet they could pray infinitely bertter than all the Rabbies and all the great Doctors of the Synagogue F. P. I grant you that but withall desire you would consider that though the Apostles were illiterate men yet were they extraordinary men call'd and sent by God in an extraordinary manner to bring about an extraordinary work yea a Work greater than that of the Creation it self they were by their Ministry to change and renew the face of the whole World to pluck the false Gods from their Temples to beat down their Altars to silence their Oracles to abolish their Worship to root out their Customs to overcome their Prejudices and to oppose and defeat a Religion of as long standing as the World it self a Religion that was in full possession of the Spirits of all men and which by consequence could engage for her defence whatsoever was authoritative great or powerfull amongst all Nations They were to be the Planters of a new Religion in the World to brave and challenge all the power of Princes to stand the shock of the Sophisms of Philosophers and the Politicks of States-men
to stem the violent torrent of the Mobile and to hold out against the Persecutions of all the wicked Now that they might be qualified and capacitated for this strange and wonderfull undertaking God was pleased to indow them with many miraculous Gifts and Powers as of Prophecying speaking all sorts of Languages working of Miracles c. in order to which the Holy Ghost who is the true and alone Spirit of Prayer came down upon them in a visible and miraculous manner Which things being so for you to fetch an Argument from the Example of the Apostles either in respect of their Person Mission or extraordinary and miraculous Gifts and apply the same to your Ministers is every-whit as improper as if you should go about to prove that you or I can stop the Sun in his Course because Joshua did so E. D. I never intended by producing the Example of the Apostles to prove our Ministers equal to them as to their extraordinary gifts and graces neither do I suppose will you dare to compare the Coiners of your Liturgy or Common-prayer with those holy Men the Apostles of our Lord and Saviour F. P. I never did I onely said that the Compilers of our Liturgy were some of the most Pious and Learned men that ever England did afford E. D. They were no better than bigoted Papists F. P. How can that be when it is known that they suffered Perscution nay Martyrdom it self in the defence of the Protestant Religion and sealed and ratified the common-Common-prayer they had composed with their Bloud E. D. But pray Sir who gave them the power to compose the common-prayer-Common-prayer-book F. P. They had their Power and Authority from God and the King E. D. I shall be glad to hear you prove it F. P. That I will Sir for it is no such difficult matter as you may suppose I say therefore first that they had their power from God for they being Bishops and Governours of the Church had an unquestionable Power and Commission by virtue of their Charge and Office to redress and reform whatsoever was amiss in the Divine Service and forasmuch as in some foregoing Ages the Prayers of the Church had been corrupted and adulterated by inserting doubtfull Stories and Legends with a superfluous multiplicity of Responsals Prayers to the Blessed Virgin and other Saints Frayers for the Dead vain Repetitions Commemorations and Synodals c. they very wisely and prudently cast away all that was Popish and Superstitious retaining onely what was sound ancient and edifying and added fâ—â—â—e Prayers that were truly Apostolicâ—â— and Primitive And besides they had a special Order and Command from King Edward VI. authorizing them so todoe E. D. I find all your Discourse comes to this that the Compilers of your Common-prayer-book onely chop'd and chang'd the Romish Liturgy and out of it with some Additions of their own patch'd up the Liturgy which is now used by the Church of England and which you do so much admire Now you know the Popish Liturgy is no other than their Mass-book which I think might to much better purpose have been quite laid aside than reform'd and patch'd up again F. P. I am not of your opinion and the Reasons that hinder me are these First Those Holy Men we are speaking of had no Power or Authority committed to them to plant or institute a new Religion but onely to reform the Abuses that were crept into the Church and the Corruptions of the pulick Worship of God which is the chiefest part of the Christian Religion now in this case it is evident that it was none of their duty or office to take away the whole publick Service or Liturgy which indeed at that time was very corrupt though not to that degree but that some good was still found amongst it but onely to change what was amiss to supply the defects of it and cast away whatsoever was corrupt or superfluous Secondly It was great wisedom in them to observe the mean between two extreams by shunning on the one hand a Spirit of bitterness and hatred against the Party they reformed from and on the other hand avoiding a sinfull compliance with the corruptions of those who were so unwilling to part with their Idolatry and Superstition And farther to illustrate my Argument I must tell you that the Reformers of our Church acted according to this commendable Maxim of Christian Charity and Moderation viz. That in love and condescention to the Church of Rome we ought not to reject any thing used by them but what is found contrary to the Word of God whereas the Reformers of your Party proceed according to this Rule That in hatred and detestation of Popery we ought not to admit the least thing the Papists make use of in their Divine Service and onely for this reason because they use it Now I would fain know of you which of these two you take to be the most Christian and Charitable method and whether the Principle our Reformers went by be not preferable to that of your Party The Reason is evident beyond dispute because our Reformers by retaining what was good and of primitive Purity in the publick Service of the Romanists and rejecting onely what was manifestly corrupt and superstitious they left a door open for them and as it were friendly invited them to leave their Adulterous Church and to enter into our Communion E. D. But pray tell me what great or good effect this Condescension did ever yet produce for I never understood that this their moderate and designing way of Reforming the Church has been a means to persuade the Papists to leave their Idolatry and Superstitions and to become Converts to their Church F. P. If I should grant you that the number of Popish Converts to our Church is not very considerable will it follow from thence that the means used for so good and charitable and End were undue or unlawfull For though God hitherto hath not been pleased to bless these good means with the greatest success that might be wish'd for yet we know not how soon he may especially considering that we had never more reason to expect the total downfall of Popery which according to outward appearance can no way so probably be brought about as by the Papists embracing the Protestant Religion Let us therefore take heed of deriding as you seem to do those lawfull moderate and Christian-like methods the Church of England hath made use to facilitate the Papists Conversion E. D. I find then you take your Common-prayer to be a lawfull moderate and Christian-like method or means to facilitate the Conversion of the Papists F. P. I do so and I question not but in due time it will prove very effectuall that way to the stopping of the mouths of all gain-sayers E. D. Ay you may look for it long enough I suppose and if by great chance it should ever prove to be an effectual means I dare say for all that
it will never be a lawfull one for to speak freely and without mincing the matter I am of opinion that though it may be lawfull to use some Form of Prayer yet it is altogether unlawfull to use that Form which is now in vogue amongst you F. P. Then I find you are not altogether irreconcilable to the Lawfulness of Praying by Forms but you are not satisfied with the Forms we use I shall be glad to hear the Grounds of your dissatisfaction as hoping by this means to have an opportunity offer'd me to enlarge my self more in the Praise of our Common-prayer than hitherto I have had occasion to do E. D. I know the humour of French-men is to be complaisant and complimental and so very probably you design in comliment to the Church of England to fall down to the Common-prayer the great Idol of the English Clergy as you have already express'd your great Respects for their dull and prophane Priests F. P. I beg of you sir let us discourse without Prejudice or Passion and be so kind as to tell me calmly and friendly what Objections you have against our Common-prayer-book in particular E. D. Before I give you the Particular Objections I have against the Common-prayer-book I shall premise this General Observation That your Common-prayer is so bad that there is nothing good in it no nor any thing that is so much as tolerable F. P. How strangely you and I differ in Opinion As for my part I really think there is nothing in it but what is very good E. D. If you can prove that as I desire you would Eris mihi magnus Apollo for indeed you will do more than all your Clergy-men that ever I discours'd with and more than all the Books that treat of this Subject have been able to do F. P. If the case be so indeed I should be loath to undertake the task For if none of our Clergy that you have discours'd with nor any of those excellent Books written in the Defence of our Liturgy have been able to convince you of the goodness and usefulness thereof it would be folly for me to attempt it for I am very sensible that my Parts and Abilities are far below any one of our Clergy that you have had to deal with and to speak the truth 't is from them and their Writings I have acquired the best part of that little learning and insight into these things that I have E. D. I hope you are as modest a Man as your discourse would import besides being a French Protestant you as such can have neither publick nor private Reason to bear any ill-will to our Party wherefore I look upon you as an unbiass'd Person without Prejudice or Partiality and consequently fit to be discours'd with about the matter in question between us And indeed all this makes me the more desirous to hear the Arguments you can produce for proving your Assertion That there is nothing in the Common-prayer-book but what is very good F. P. I thought all this while that you intended to propound your Objections against the Common-prayer and that my onely business would have been to Answer them E. D. I suppose we may do both these things at once for if you please to tell me what you find so extraordinary good in the Common-prayer I shall also on my part declare what I dislike in it F. P. Be it so And to the end we may proceed with some order let us cursorily reade over the Common-prayer-book which I have here with me E. D. This indeed will be a good way to enable us to judge the better concerning it and therefore I am very free to run it over with you onely must desire you not to take it ill if now and then I interrupt you with my Objections against any part of it F. P. What you desire is contain'd in our agreement for according to it I am to tell you what I approve of in our Liturgy and you are to tell me what you dislike in it by propounding your Objections against it E. D. Very well and in so doing we shall finely Anatomize these Relicks of Popery But it is your turn to begin F. P. The first thing I meet with in our common-prayer-Common-prayer-book are some Sentences of the Holy Scriptures of which the Minister is to reade one or more before he proceeds to the Prayers or Devotions which seems to me to be very proper and usefull for certainly we can never better begin God's Service than with his own Words Next follows an Exhortation wherein is represented to the People the End of their present assembling or meeting together which is as the Exhortation expresseth it To confess their Sins to render Thanks to God to set forth his Praise and to ask those things that be necessary either for Soul or Body and towards the end thereof we are informed and directed how to perform these holy and bounden Duties viz. sincerely and reverently with a pure heart and humble voice which caution is very necessary if we consider how prone Men are without any due preparation of themselves to rush into the presence of the great God who is a consuming fire and before whom they ought to appear with the most reverential awe and trembling as likewise how apt we are to utter any thing before him without considering that he is in Heaven and we on Earth and how negligent we generally are in disposing and qualifying our selves for the acceptable performance of the Sacred Duties of our Religious Worship E. D. So far all is pretty tolerable but by and by we shall meet with a great deal of stuff F. P. Not to insist now upon your plain contradicting of your self for whereas but just now you positively asserted that there was nothing so much as tolerable in our Liturgy you now plainly confess the contrary I shall onely desire you when we come to those places where your great deal of stuff lies that you would stop me for I shall be glad to hear the Objections you have against any part of it and in the mean time I proceed to speak of the Confession which is the next thing that occurs in our Liturgy The Minister and People having been thus stirr'd up by the foregoing Exhortation to compose their Thoughts and prepare their Hearts for a due offering up of their Morning or Evening Sacrifice the next thing they do is to fall down on their knees confessing in a solemn and humble manner their Sins unto Almighty God earnestly imploring his Grace and Mercy for the Pardon of them And this according to my apprehension is very proper and necessary in our approaches to God for since it is our Sins that separate between God and us and hide his face from us we can do no better than in the first place to beg of our most mercifull Father the Remission of them that he may utterly efface them and put them out of the way of
interrupting the free course of his gracious and benign Communications and Influences If I regard saith the Psalmist iniquity in my heart the Lord will not hear my prayer Psal 66. v. 16. Moreover it is very reasonable before we beg any favour from God to entreat for a removal of those Evils we groan under viz. the guilt and punishment of our Sins E. D. I suppose you did not observe this method in the Common-prayer the Protestants use in France F. P. Yes but we did Our Ministers always begin Divine Service with a Sentence of the Holy Scriptures and I shall not scruple to tell you that it is expresly the same with which the Roman Office of the Mass beginneth and yet we have had the good luck never to be censur'd as Popishly affected upon this account and in the next place they proceed to exhort and invite the People to accompany them to the Throne of the heavenly Grace repeating after them a Confession of Sins in substance much the same with that in the English Liturgy E. D. But your Ministers did not reade these Prayers out of a Book as the scandalous and lazy Clergy here in England do F. P. I find you make it your business to affront our Clergy at every turn and suppose the most abusive and scurrilous Language to be good enough for them yet question much whether you would take it well to be paid in the same coin however I cannot but tell you my thoughts which incline me to believe you have learned these ill manners from your own Minister E. D. What I hope you will not accuse our Minister of being unmannerly For I dare say he is as courteous and civil as affable and obliging and in a word as much a Gentleman as any Man I know of F. P. He shewed himself to be so indeed when the other day being in his Pulpit thought fit to interrupt the series of his discourse to give the lye to a person entring into the Meeting who it seems had reported something as he conceiv'd to his disadvantage E. D. Ay this is a fine story forg'd at pleasure by some of your Clergy-men to expose and make our Ministers odious F. P. 'T is so far from being a story that I am ready to justifie the truth of it by many credible Ear-witnesses But to return to the matter in hand though first I must tell you in answer to your question that our French Ministers always use their Books in repeating of their common-Common-prayer reading it word by word and yet have been so happy as to escape the Censure of being either scandalous or lazy upon that account E. D. I onely ask you this question by the bye But let us see what follows F. P. After the Confession which is the last thing we have spoke of follows the Absolution wherein the Minister declares and pronounces to all those that truly repent and unfeignedly believe the holy Gospel the Absolution of their sins and no doubt supposing our Confession to have been sincere and hearty the Minister has good reason to declare our Sins are absolved upon these two Evangelical conditions of Faith and Repentance But to the end no scruple may be left in this matter be pleas'd to observe that the Minister doth not here Absolve in his own name but publisheth a Pardon in Nomine Domini in the Name and Authority of the Lord God He doth not say I but He pardoneth c. E. D. This Form of Absolution as being onely declaratory may pass well enough for as I understand it now the Minister onely declares that Pardon may be had and on what terms All this may be born with and therefore you may go on F. P. The Lord's-prayer follows next and that if I be not greatly mistaken very properly First because having hitherto prepared our selves by Confession and Absolution we may now more freely take the boldness to call God our Father and address our selves to him in that perfect Form of Prayer which his Beloved Son has taught us Secondly the Lord's-prayer being the ground-work and foundation on which all our Prayers and Petitions should be built we can never do better than to begin our Prayers with this which was composed by the onely begotten Son of God and indited by Wisdom it self to be a pattern and model to all our Devotions E. D. But you cannot say that you make use of the Lord's-prayer in the first place and before your other Petitions since you have already used several before it F. P. Whatsoever has been hitherto performed either by Minister or People is rather a Preparation for Prayer than Prayer it self for if you E. D. You need say no more for indeed it is no great matter whether you use it first or last the Question onely is whether it ought to be us'd at all I own it to be a matter of great moment which therefore ought not to be rashly determin'd though for my part I am more inclinable to take it as a directory for the matter of our Prayer than for a Form and the rather because one of the Evangelists seems to intimate as much by ushering in the Lord's-prayer with these words of our Saviour After this manner therefore pray ye Luke 6. v. 9. F. P. I fear your Minister is not so cautious as you are in this matter for in some of his Sermons he hath if not rashly at least very positively asserted that the Lord's-prayer is not to be used as a Form of Prayer but onely as a Direction and consequently takes great care not to make use of it in his Meeting though as I have been informed from very credible hands he useth it in his Family-prayers but how to reconcile P with B in this case P when he is in his Meeting and B when he is at home I leave to your consideration I onely wish there be not some worldly interest at the bottom that sways him And as for what you alledge that one of the Evangelists saith after this manner c. I answer that these words do not forbid or oppose the using of it as a Form or the repeating of it in the self-same words for he that repeats the same words saith after this manner though every one that saith after this manner do not always repeat the same words So that he who saith the very words themselves hath two Evangelists to warrant and justifie him whereas he that does not hath but one I shall onely add that the Lord's-prayer is used by the Church of Christ all the World over and it cannot but be very comfortable and beneficial to us to bear a part in this great and Universal Consort E. D. But suppose I should grant you that the Lord's-prayer may be us'd in the Morning yet you cannot but allow me that it ought not to be us'd at Night because it is ridiculous to beg our daily Bread of God when we have eaten our Supper and are ready to
as a Confirmation and further assurance of the Absolution of our Sins and now we repeat it as the ground and foundation of our following Petitions Besides the frequent repetition of it ought not to be called vain since as hath been before observed Christ himself prayes thrice using the same words and certainly the best of Prayers cannot be used too often E. D. But I dare say if so be the Protestants in France made use of the Lord's-prayer at all yet they did not repeat it so often as you do F. P. I have taken notice before that you are very ready to entertain false Notions concerning our French Protestants and the same befalls you in this particular for certain it is that we always had so great a veneration for the Lord's-prayer that we believ'd all our Prayers whether publick or private were deficient and imperfect without it and therefore we did always both in the Church and at home conclude all our Prayers with the Lord's-prayer adding most commonly the Apostle's Creed and concluding all with the Solemn Blessing E. D. But when your Ministers used it in the Church I suppose they did not repeat it often as you do but were content with saying of it once onely F. P. You are still mistaken for our Ministers do repeat it most commonly thrice and sometimes more before they come down from the Pulpit and according to the Discipline or Canons of our Church they are bound so to do E. D. This I confess seems strange to me But let us proceed to what follows next and that cursorily too for I begin to be tiâ—ed with speaking so long to no purpose for I find ready at hand to dash my Objections F. P. That I may not tire you altogether I shall dispatch what remains in as few words as possible The next part of the Liturgy that offers it self are some interlocutory Petitions taken out of Holy Scripture both Ministers and People in these short and devout Ejaculations striving by turns who shall most move God favourably to incline and hearken to their Petitions and after these the whole Congregation do in a humble posture with united hearts and voices supplicate our heavenly Father for his grace and favour for his help and aid for his safeguard and protection for the acceptation of their Prayers and his Divine Blessing not onely for themselves but also for the King and Queen and Royal Family for the Church both Clergy and People and lastly for all Mankind and this in few words is the design and contents of the following Collects But I must not forget to observe to you that upon Wednesdays Fridays and Sundays we reade the Litany E. D. Pray waht is the use of this Litany or what is it good for F. P. I must not it seems for fear of trespassing upon your patience enlarge my self too much in representing to you the Excellency of this Prayers and therefore shall tell you as briefly as I can the substance and import of it there is no Vice nor Lust which therein we do not pray to be deliver'd from nor any Grace or Virtue but we desire God to bestow it upon us and in a word whatsoever is fit to be pray'd for or deprecated in publick is contained in this Prayer After which follow some Prayers of Thanksgivings to be used upon particular occasions being extreamly well suited to those pious Ends they are intended for as for Rain Fair-weather c. E. D. But I am sure there is more than this contain'd in your common-Common-prayer and therefore pray do not shut up your Book so soon F. P. There is something more behind I confess but because I am loath to abuse your patience I hope you will think this general account to be sufficient What remains unmentioned are the Collects Epistles and Gospels which you cannot but like as to the matter because they we the Word of God And as for their Order it is admirable as being to well suited to the particular Days they are appointed for that by means of them the Mysteries commemorated upon those days are unfolded the History represented or the Example applied to the great benefit and edification of those that truly fear God and desire to improve themselves in saving knowledge and are willing to imitate the holy Examples of those faithfull Servants of God who are departed this life in his Faith and Fear E. D. Is this all then F. P. No for besides all this our Liturgy contains a Form for the Administration of the Lord's-Supper another for the Publick Baptism of Infants another for such of riper years as likewise a short Catechism the Order of Confirmation a Form for the Solemnizing of Matrimony the Order for the Visitation of the Sick with the Form of Administring to them the Holy Communion the Order for the Burial of the Dead and the Thanksgiving of Women after Child-birth and lastly a Commination of God's Anger and Judgment against Sinners E. D. Ay here 's a multiplicity of Forms indeed but I am confident if you would speak sincerely and from your heart you will grant me that all these Forms are very useless and unnecessary F. P. If I should grant you this I must not onely speak against my Judgment and Conscience but also condemn our French Reformed Churches since it is most certain that they also have Forms appointed for most of the foresaid occasions For instance we have set Forms for Celebrating of the Holy Communion for the Baptizing of Children for the Solemnizing of Matrimony c. And lastly I should condemn and oppose the general sense of our French Protestants who have always had and still have a great respect and veneration not onely for those Forms last mentioned but for the whole Body of the English Liturgy E. D. You are pleased to say so F. P. And you will be forc'd to say so too if you please onely to take the trouble to reade Dr. Durel's Treatise in Defence of the English Liturgy for there you will meet with unquestionable Records of the Opinion and Judgment of all the ablest and most learned Divines amongst the French Protestants who have in all times and upon all occasions as far declared themselves for the English Common-prayer and spoken as highly and favourably of it as any of the Divines of the Church of England ever did E. D. I have not Dr. Durel's Book and therefore cannot satisfie my self by perusing of it but if you will be pleas'd to inform me what he saith concerning the Judgment of your French Divines with respect to our English Liturgy I shall be glad to hear it F. P. Dr. Durel amongst other Testimonies produceth a Letter of the Reverend Monsieur de l' Angle at that time one of the Ministers of the Reformed Church of Roan a Person of great Worth and Fame wherein upon occasion of the happy Restauration of King Charles II. he saith Taht his heart leaped for joy when he was told that
whether young or old Kings or Subjects Nobles or Commons in prosperity or adversity in a wealthy and comfortable or in a pinching and afflicted condition and they are proportioned with that exactness to these several circumstances as if they had been made on purpose to express and represent every one's particular state and condition E. D. I must own there is somewhat of truth in what you have said concerning the Psalms but one thing I find that spoils all which is your silly way of reading them by turns the Minister reading one Verse and the People answering another which certainly is a consus'd if not a scandalous way of praising God F. P. What you are pleas'd to call confus'd and scandalous is in my opinion very edifying and heavenly and my opinion is grounded upon Reason for this way of reading or singing Psalms by turns as hath been partly already hinted is extremely well suited to excite each others Affections and to encrease our Emulation making us as it were to strive to outvie each other in Zeal and Devotion and to contend who shall worship and praise God with most earnestness and fervency Now this holy Emulation cannot but be very profitable and edifying yea and Heavenly too because it comes nearest to the Pattern of Heavenly and Angelical Adoration for thus we reade that the Seraphims cry to each other by turns Holy holy holy Lord God of Hosts c. Isai 6.3 E. D. Well but I have another Objection against your way of reading the Psalms and that is that at the end of every one of them you repeat the Gloria Patri Glory be to the Father and to the Son c. which certainly is a very vain repetition F. P. I am not of your opinion for if you observe this Doxology is not applied twice to the same subject for though we repeat it constantly at the closing of every Psalm yet because they most commonly differ and vary in their subjects for you will hardly find two Psalms together of the same Argument some being Psalms of Doctrine and Instruction some of Confession of Sins some of Profession of Faith some of Supplication and Prayer some of Praises and Thanksgiving And forasmuch as every one of these Arguments contain sufficient and powerfull motives to stir up our Hearts and Affections to bless and glorifie God therefore the closing of every Psalm with this Doxology Glory be to the Father c. cannot be judged vain and improper but rather very proper and edifying After the reading or singing of the Psalms we proceed to reade the Lessons the one out of the Old Testament and the other out of the New which order affords this great conveniency amongst several others that by this means the Old Testament is read over once and the New Testament thrice every Year E. D. This is a great mistake of yours whether wilfull or no I shall not enquire for the Book of Chronicles is never read as well as many particular Chapters of some other Books F. P. I confess the Books of Chronicles are not read but the reason of it is plain and evident because for the most part they are but a repetition of the Books of Kings which are read in their course and if any Chapters of other Books be omitted 't is either because they contain little else but a repetition of what is gone before or because they treat of the Genealogies Ceremonies and Laws of the Jews which chiefly concern'd them as being now antiquated and of little use under the Gospel E. D. Pray why do you reade the Apocryphal Books then which certainly are of as little use and concern as those Books and Chapters you omit in the course of your Lessons F. P. I don't think so for though they be not Canonical they are such as may be read with Profit and Edification in that they contain many true and pious Histories or Relations of the Lives and Actions of several great and excellent Persons whose worthy and glorious Examples are very proper to affect our Hearts and raise up in us an ardent Desire and holy Emulation to imitate their transcendent Virtues to express their untainted Innocence and copy their unshaken Constancy Courage and Magnanimity Moreover we find there most exquisite Precepts of Morality directing and informing of us in the Practice of all vertuous Actions teaching us how to order our Lives Manners and Conversation and recommending to us the loveliness and excellence of Vertue as well as representing the deformity and misery of Vice and Wickedness E. D. But if I be not mistaken you do not reade the first and second Lesson immediately one after another F. P. True for after the first Morning Lesson we say or sing the Te Deum We praise thee O God c. or the Benedicite O all ye works of the Lord Bless ye the Lord c. both of which are the most excellent and heavenly Hymns that ever were fram'd by Men each of them being a most complete Form of Thanksgiving Praise and Adoration After the second Morning Lesson we repeat the Song of Zacharias or else the 100 Psalm both of which are not onely Divine and unquestionable but also extremely proper to inflame our Hearts with Love and Gratitude to God for all his unutterable Goodness bestowed upon us In the Evening Service after the first Lesson the Church appoints the Song of the Blessed Virgin or the 98 Psalm and after the second Lesson the 67 Psalm or the Song of old Simeon all which for the Reasons just now mentioned cannot but be acceptable to God and edifying to those that attend his Worship E. D. But what probable reason can you give for inserting and intermixing these Songs of Praise with your Lessons F. P. The Church has appointed the Repetition of these Sacred and Seraphick Hymns to be us'd as a solemn Form of Thanksgiving for those unspeakable Mercies and heavenly Blessings and good things revealed and promised to us in his Word newly read to us and it is but fitting and seemly that after we have heard God graciously speaking to us we should in gratitude eccho forth our Praises and Thanks to him and this we do in the Hymns now mentioned E. D. Some of these Hymns I think might be allow'd but there be two thrust in amongst them which seem to me very improper and that is the Song of the Virgin Mary for bearing Christ in her Womb and that of Old Simeon for seeing Jesus Christ in the Flesh and holding him in his Arms Now since these are extraordinary Cases which reach none of us therefore I conclude the use of them somewhat strange and extravagant F. P. To begin with your first Objection I readily own that we have not the same occasion to use this Hymn as the Blessed Virgin had for God the Word his taking Flesh in her Womb was a priviledge peculiar to her alone Yet pray consider that when we in all humility with Obedience and