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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A70229	The Quakers appeal answer'd, or, A full relation of the occasion, progress, and issue of a meeting held in Barbican the 28th of August last past wherein the allegations of William Pen in two books lately published by him against Thomas Hicks, were answered and disproved, and Tho. Hicks, his quotations out of the Quakers own books attested by several as being appeal'd unto.	Hicks, Thomas, 17th cent.; Kiffin, William, 1616-1701.	1674 (1674)	Wing H1924; ESTC R2772	24,153	49

19 That some of their Friends have excused some of their Villanies by pretences to the innocent Life Dial. 3. Epist Concerning these three last I propose this unto the Quakers that if they will chuse six sober and disinterested persons I also will do the like And if I cannot give sufficient Reasons for what I have Objected against them I will contentedly submit to what those twelve men shall determine VVe whose names are hereunder written doe certifie that the aforesaid Quotations are truly recited out of those Books to which they refer VVitness our hands My occasions calling me from the meeting before the ending thereof but since having perused the proofs by comparing them with the Quakers Books whence they are cited I find them to agree Witness my hand William Kiffen Dan. Dyke Han. Knollys John Gesnell Tho. Paul Henry Forty John Norcot Tho. Wilcocks Robert Snelling Maurice King Jonathan Jennings Thomas Plant Joseph Morton Owen Davis John Hunter John Snelling William Dix John Vernon Edw. Noble Rob. Maton John Singleton Dr. James Baron There are many more both Ministers and others who are ready and willing if occasion serve to attest the same Note also That those Instances in the foregoing Margents were added since the Meeting for further proof A Postscript to the Reader HAving seen William Pens complaynt wherein after his idle Excuses He is pleased to propose for a publick Meeting To which I answer That such a Meeting never was refused but often hath been desired by me provided That the matters in controversie betwixt us might be the subject of the Debate Accordingly I did long since send Six Questions to G. Whitehead promising to meet him in the most publick place I could procure so be it he would comply with these Conditions 1 That I might have liberty to produce their own Books to be read openly for the clearing matter of fact 2 That we might agree upon a Rule by which our Discourse may be determin'd 3 That he would speak directly and plainly to the Question 4 That but one at a time should speak and Lastly That any who would might write after us The Questions were these 1 Whether the Light in every man be God 2 Whether the Light in every man be the true and very Christ the Scripture speaks of 3 Whether Christ hath not a personal Being without men 4 Whether the Soul be part of Gods Being without Beginning and infinite 5 Whether none of those things which God hath given by way of Command to others be a Command to me 6 Whether the speaking of the Spirit in the Quakers be of greater Authority than the Scriptures G. Whitehead would not accept hereof though I told him These were some of the things which the Dialogue objects against them But if William Pen will engage in the Disquisition of these Questions upon the Conditions aforesaid and also That no more than three of each side be allow'd to Debate and but one of those three to speak at a time equal liberty being granted on each side to those persons nominated and allow'd upon notice of his willingness He shall God willing be attended But if he refuse 't is expected he give sufficient Reasons why he doth so Forasmuch as these are some of the principal matters in difference every Question having its Foundation in their own Books as the foregoing Narrative will abundantly manifest whereupon I conceive he ought not to decline them yet nevertheless if he shall rather choose to insist upon other matters of less importance giving his Reasons why these and not those before propounded Then let him send me the particulars thereof subscribed with his own hand and I will give him a speedy answer I have now a few things to add respecting matter of fact which were not spoken to in the Publick meeting aforesaid 1 That they the Quakers make use of the Scriptures only to silence them that plead for it as their rule see Dial. 1. p. 24 25. Will. Pen accounts this a Forgery Reas ag Rayl p. 158. my answer is That I have given an instance and that of no ordinary Quaker By whom words of such an import were spoken and withall plainly intimated to whom he so expressed himself see Dial. 3. pag. 36. Another particular which Will. Pen in his wonted modesty calls a lye Is that Instance concerning Nicolas Lucas Dial. 2. p. 71 In this also I have been cleared and vindicated Inasmuch as the person from whom I had the relation who heard him speak the words hath Attested it to Nicolas Lucas before witnesses And whereas t is said in the Append. to Reas against Rail p. 12. That it was refer'd to Henry Stout to witness that charge Reader I doe assure thee that no such matter was refer'd to him The next thing which Will. Pen in his haste hath branded for a lye and slander Is this That I should say The tendency of all the Quakers reasoning about Instituted Religion is to Debauch mankind and to teach men to live in rebellion against God Dial. 3. p. 65 In answer hereunto I shall produce Will. Pen himself for my compurgator Who concerning the ordinances of water Baptisme and breaking of Bread writes thus I would not have any so sottish as to think That Christ came to abolish the shaddows of the Jews And Institute others in their room He came to remove and abolish the very nature of such ordinances I affirm circumcision is as much in force as Water-Baptisme And the paschal Lamb as Bread and Wine They were both but shaddows and both Elementary and perishable And though the latter were more Immediately forerunning and Introductory of the substance it self yet not to be perpetuated For a continuance of them had been a Judaizing of the spiritual and Evangelicall worship The Gospel would have been a state of Figures Types and shadows which to assert or practise is as much as in us lyes to pluck it up by the Rootes The Appellation Ordinances of Christ I therefore Renounce as unscriptural inevangelical Besides the spirit of whoredom from God Gross Apostacy Superstition and Idolatry yea a spirit of Hypocrisie persecution and murder and all manner of wickedness has got them and covered it self with them And we can testifie from the same spirit by which Paul renounc'd Circumcision That they are to be rejected as not now required And the Lord will appear to gather people out of them but never to establish or keep people in them Thus Will. Pen Reas against Rayl p. 108 109. Now whether I have not sufficiently discharg'd my self from those things whereof William Pen hath accused me I shall submit to the Judgement of all impartial men And since the Quakers have appealed whether they ought not to be concluded by their judgement to whom the Appeal was made especially this position of Will. Pens Being considered viz. That to which an Appeal is made must be capable of giving an infallible Judgement and so a true

Jerusalem a type a figure a shadow that is past away What have you to do with Christ at Jerusalem Have done with him Both these Instances are attested by Mr. Nath. Robinson Minister at Southampton The next particular Opinion which I charge the Quakers with is this 4. That Christ redeems himself This I draw as a necessary consequence from their words see Dial. 1st p. 47. William Pen. This is a stumble and a gross perversion of our words Reas against Rayl p. 62. Tho. Hicks Whether this be a perversion or not I shall refer you to their own words Few are come to know what it is that wants Redemption and that the promise is to For there is a seed to which the Promise of Redemption is Ja. Naylor love to the lost p. 47. Christ is the Election and the Elect seed Ibid. pag. 32. The Promise of God is to the seed that hath been laden as a cart with sheaves by the sinner which seed is the hope Christ G. Fox Gr. myst p. 324. We doe assert the Redemption of the seed Will. Pen. Reas against Rayl p. 62. T is no wayes absurd that we affirm That the end of Gods manifesting himself in the flesh was for the Redemption and deliverance of His Holy life that was in a man as a small seed even the smallest of seeds that had been long vex'd grieved and press'd down by sin and iniquity Will. Pen Ib. p. 63. This seed was and is pure for ever Ib. p. 64. That which was lost is still in mans heart and there it must be sought for it remains still in the house that is mans heart this is the thing to be sought This Christ came to seek and to save And all his ministers preach'd people to this the lost in man a lost God a lost Christ * G. Keith In a meeting with me a few weeks since told me That he added these words viz. That they might find a lost God a lost Christ whom they had lost I then answered t is true those words were added yet were they no otherwise serviceable to him than as a blind to deceive his unwary reader For First By lost in his whole discourse in that book cited is intended of God and Christ which he there calls The principle Kingdom or Appearance of Christ by his light in mans heart And as Jesus Christ came to seek and save the lost so all his ministers preach'd people to this The lost in them Secondly The sence I put upon the word lost is no other Than what William Pen allows lost saith he As taken by Tho. Hicks is meant of mans lost condition And as there used by G. Keith is understood of God and Christ whom man had lost Rea. against Rayl pag. 61. Thirdly I further said that the sence in which I represented him was according to the opinions of others of his friends This was the sum and substance of their Doctrine G. Keith Immed Revel p. 75 76. When God created man He put his Image Christ the express image of himself in man He breathed into him the breath of life He lived in God And Christ the light of men was his life lived in him then the Lamb was not slain Christ the Lamb the life of man But when man sinned so the Lamb came to be slain in him from the foundation of the world That Holy meek harmless nature The Lambs nature was slain in him Now the bowels of the Fathers love stir'd in compassion to the work of his own hands that of the pure creation in man which though shut up in death yet it remain'd and perish'd not as to its being It did not become a nothing but remain'd a being And this is the lost which God sent his son into the world to seek and to save not to seek and save the old Adam that birth of the Serpents begetting but to destroy it for it is not capable of Gods salvation But that which Christ came to save is that of God which proceeded from him The seed of God in man * Judge Reader whether I have wronged G. Keith or not The seed of Abraham whereof Abrahams old decayed body as good as dead and Sarahs barren womb was a type G. Keith Immed Revel p. 44. 45 46. of this seed he elsewhere speaks thus what the seed and birth of God in us Iudgeth or discerneth or doth is ever infallible the eye of the seed alwayes seeth infallibly This Book Intituled Immediat Revelation G. Keith affirmed to me in the hearing of many credible witnesses that it was written by the immediate Inspiration of the Spirit of God Its ear alwayes heareth infallibly its hand alwayes acteth infallibly Ibid p. 23. This seed and birth of God in man is that which Geo. Keith saith Christ came to seek and save These instances considered I shall leave it with you to Judge whether my consequence was not proper from their words my next charge is this 5. That the Quakers do deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice unto Christians Proof We deny the Scriptures to be the Rule of Faith and Practice In honour to that Divine Light that was the Authour of them c. Will. Pen. Reas against Rayl pag. 48. There is nothing in the Scripture that is a duty upon me or which I am obliged to obey because there Recorded Whatsosoever is a Command to me I must not receive from any man or thing without me nay not the Scripture it self Yea it is the greatest Error in the world that ever was Invented and the ground of all Error to affirm that the Scripture ought to be a Rule to Christians Ben. Furly a noted Quaker in a Letter See Dial 1. pag. 79. He that perswades people to let the Scriptures be the Rule of Faith and Practice would keep People in Darkness For whosoever walks by the Rule without them and teach men so to do would make void the Covenant of Life and Peace Edw. Burrows works pag. 62. G. VVhitehead accounts it Idolatry to call the Bible a Means of our knowing God Dip. Pl. pag. 13. To such as say the Scriptures are the Rule G. Whitehead writes thus Poor men you have shewn your selves sufficiently herein And what an Empty Implicite Faith you are in and how void both of the Knowledge of God Christ and Salvation you are And how yet in your sins having denied Christ and his Light within to be your Rule and Way and Foundation as he is to his Followers And so you are walking by your Fancies and Imaginations who set the Scriptures in the place of Christ as your only absolute Rule and ground of your Faith and Knowledge Christ ascended pag. 11. Charge 6. 6. That the speaking of the Spirit in any is of greater Authority than the Scriptures See Dial. 1. pag. 28. Proved This Question was put to a Quaker as G. VVhithead confesseth Do you esteem of your speakings to be of as

greater Authority as any Chapter in the Bible To which his Answer is That which was spoken from the Spirit of Truth in any is of as great Authority as the Scriptures and Chapters are and greater G. VVhithead Serious Apol. pag. 49. Charge 7. 7. That is no command from God to me which God hath given by way of command to another Neither did any of the Saints Act by the command which was to another Every one obeyed their own command See Dial. 2. pag. 59. I prove this That is no Command from God to me which he Commands to another Neither did any of the Saints we read of in Scripture Act by the Command which was to another c. They obeyed every one their own Command And thou J. Turner or any other who goes to Duty as you call it by Immitation from the Letter without which were Commands to others in your own VVills and Time your Sacrifice is not accepted but is an Abomination to the Lord. Edw. Burroughs works pag. 47. You take up a Command from the Letter and Imitate the Apostles in that Mind and Nature which in the Apostles was Crucified and you say Christ Commands it when the Letter doth but declare it you say in such a verse of such a Chapter Such a Command is not having received the Command by the same Spirit Here you are proved to be them which use their Tongues and say He saith it when God hath not spoken to you but as you read it without you As the False Prophets may do the words of the true Prophets And thus you are in the VVitchcraft Edw. Burroughs works pag. 105. These words Edw. Bur. gave out as he himself saith by Order and Authority given to him by the Spirit of the Living God the 31 th day of the 10 th Month in the year of the worlds Account 1655. about the 4 th hour in the Morning when he was upon his Bed in Kilkenny City in the Nation of Ireand Given under my hand and Sealed by the Spirit of the Eternal God who lives for ever through a Servant of the Lord. Edw. B. see his works pag. 96. Charge 8. 8. That Justification by that Righteousness which Christ fulfilled for us wholly without us is a Doctrine of Divels Dial. 1. pag. 38. Proved And indeed this we deny viz. Justification by the Righteousness which Christ fulfilled in his own Person for us wholly without us And boldly affirm it in the Name of the Lord to be a Doctrine of Divels and an Arm of the Sea of Corruption which doth now Deluge the world VVill. Pen Serious Apol. pag. 148. Charge 9. 9. That the Quakers hold Justification by works See Dial. 3. pag. 2. And I now add by works in the strictest Notion Proved God accepts not any where there is any failing Or who do not fulfill the Law and Answer every Demand of Justice Edw. Burroughs works pag. 33. In answer to the 14 th Query VVas not Abraham Justified by works VVe must not conceive that his Personal-Offering was not a Justifying-righteousness But that God was pleased to count it so Nor was there any Imputation of anothers Righteousness to Abraham but on the contrary His personal Obedience was the ground of that just Imputation Therefore that any should be Justified by anothers Righteousness Imputed and not Inherent in him is both Ridiculous and Dangerous VVill. Pen Reas against Rayl pag. 80. Charge 10. 10. That Christ fulfilled the the Law only as our pattern See Dial. 2. pag. 52. Compared with Sand Foundation p. 26. Will. Pen. If he can find the word Only there Or such an Answer to such a Question or the Matter strictly contained in that Question he hath not wronged me But sure I am there is no such Question and as sure The fulfilling of the Law was not the subject Treated on And very certain the word Only was not there Therefore a Forger c. Will. Pen Reas against Rayl pag. 78. Tho. Hicks Let the Book and Page referred to by me be read and then Judge whether Will. Pen was advised thus to answer For not the Hearers of the Law are just before God but the Doers of the Law shall be justified Rom. 2.13 From whence saith Will. Pen how unanswerably may I observe unless we become doers of that Law which Christ came not to destroy but as our Example to fulfil we can never be Justified before God Nor let any Fancy that Christ hath so fulfilled it for them as to exclude their Obedience from being requisite to their acceptance but Only as their Pattern VVill. Pen. Sand. Found p. 26. Judge now whether the Law was Treated on or whether the word Only be there Both which Will. Pen you hear denies Again let it be noted That this very Argument is Printed in Will. Pens Reas against Rayl pag. 94 95. VVhereby you may be ascertained that he had his Sandy Found by him when he charg'd my Citation from it with Forgery Charge 11. 11. That the Doctrine of Christs satisfaction is Irreligious and Irrational Proof That this is true see Sand. Found p. 22. Where Will. Pen speaks thus Consequences that is from this Doctrine Irreligious and Irrational and concludes one of his Consequences thus O the Infamous Portraiture this Doctrine draws of the Infinite Goodness Is this your Retribution O Injurious Satisfactionists Thus VVill Pen. Charge 12. 12. That this Body which dies shall not Rise again Proof G. VVhithead asserted in the hearing of many Witnesses That this Body shall not rise again Such a Resurrection is Inconsistent with Scripture Reason and the Belief of all men right in their wits VVill. Pen Reas against Rayl pag. 133. For shame let us never make so much stir against the Doctrine of Transubstantiation For the absurdity of that is rather out-done than equalled by this Carnal Resurrection VVill. Pen. Ibid. p. 134. The Change which shall be is not of Accidents but of Bodies VVill. Pen. Ibid. p. 136. and in p. 138. He calls it a Barbarous Conceit From our denying the Resurrection of the Natural and Corruptible Body c. Will. Pen. counterfeit Chr. p. 32. I hope you are satisfied that I have not in any of these 12 Particulars either Mischarged or wronged the Quakers But If any should Question the Authority of the Books which I have Cited I desire That VVill. Pens Reas against Rayl p. 185 186. may be read VVe shall saith VVill. Pen among the many Books writ by us in general in Defence of our VVay we profess lay these few upon the Heads of our several Adversaries as containing much of what can be said in behalf of our Principle and Practices viz. 1. Priests and Professors Principles That is the Book Intitled The Gr. Myst by G. Fox 2. Edw. Burroughs his VVorks 3. Divinity of Christ by G. VVhithead 4. Immediate Revelation by G. Keith 5. Serious Apologie by G. Whithead and Will. Pen. 6. Christ Ascended by G. Whithead 7. The

Spirit of Truth Vindicated by W. Pen. These with our present Discourse that is Reason against Rayl Let them Answer Thus W. Pen. 2. Head or Matters of Practice That it concerns them to render their Adversaries as Ridiculous as they can and to make their Friends believe they do nothing but contradict themselves And if this fail to Insinuate by way of Question something that may be a Slander to them See his Dial. 1. pag. 72. VVill. Pen. This is a Forgery O horrible Impiety God our God Vindicate our Innocency from these Hillish Slanders Reas against Rayl pag. 138. 161. Were we what he Represents us to be in this very Matter the severest Plagues and Judgments of the Eternal God we might justly expect to be our Portion Ibid. pag. 4. Tho. Hicks Whether I have wrong'd them or not in giving such an Answer in their Names Let these Quotations be Read and Considered Our Ignorance of his Name deprives us of that Scope which we might otherwise have for producing perhaps as large a Catalogue of Doctrinal Mistakes in what he himself or those to whom he adheres have writ Perhaps also he was afraid of such Truth as may be seasonably told of him to the Discrediting of his Enterprise Thus Will Pen in answer to the Author of the Spirit of the Quakers tried Spirit of truth Vind. pag. 6. G. Whitehead in his Answer to Mr. Danson Insinuates a Slander upon him by way of Question He saith Whitehead stiles himself sometimes Minister of the Gospel at Sandwich But is not rather that Report of him true that there he was given to Gaming Bowls and Ninepins c. See Divinity of Christ written by G. Whitehead pag. 49. This Question was put by G. Whitehead not because Mr. Danson was guilty but meerly to Slander him will appear from what Will. Pen says in his Apology for his Friend Whitehead in this very thing Who knows not saith Pen That the Priests give themselves a Liberty of more than that What Game almost do they scruple to play at And if G. Whitehead to detect the Priest since others gave themselves that Loose did therefore make that Query Must it therefore be taken for granted that he concluded him such Spir. of truth Vind. page 137. Hear the Complaint of another who very well knows the Temper and Practices of the Quakers If any persons saith he Write or Speak their Grief that is at the Quakers Miscarriages that the Publick take notice of it they will Represent them under such Terms as may render them Odious And the more Effectually to weaken their Testimonies they will Fix upon them Scurrilous and contemptible Appellations And to prevent any Inquisition into the truth of the Matter they would make People believe that they are Envious Malicious Dirty Factious and Ranting Spirits Spir. of the Hat pag. 36 37. 2. I accuse the Quakers for calling such as ask them Questions Reprobates And saying they are in the Sorcery and Witchcraft VVill. Pen. This is a great Lye Reas against Rayl pag. 154 156. Tho. Hicks Be pleased to read Edw. Burroughs his Answers to Twenty serious Questions and you will find that which is sufficient to clear me from Lying His words are these Thou Reprobate and child of darkness the Light condemns thee and thy Generation eternally We witness thee to be in the Sorcery and Witchcraft Thou art Darkness it self Thou Dragon thy Queries are Conjured in the Black-art out of the bottomless Pit Thou Diviner we witness thee to be the Beast which wars with the Lamb Thou Antichrist which looks at Christs Death at Jerusalem alone Thou art seen with the Light and with it condemned for ever Thou blind Pharisee and Blasphemer Thou Jesuite art pleading for a Christ afar off thee Thou art under the Wo and from that Wo thou shalt never flee Let all People see whether thou be not a blind Ignorant Sot Here thou Repliest thy Sottish Queries concerning the Body of Jesus as the Devil did about the body of Moses Thou disobedient one upon whom God will render Vengeance in flaming Fire Thou art accursed Thou Beast to whom the Plagues of God are due upon whom the wrath of God must be accomplished Thou art shut out from God for ever Thou blind Hypocrite Thou Cain Thou full of Subtilty VVith the Light thou art seen and with the Life thou art Judged and Condemned Thou dead Beast thou art unredeemed from thy vain conversation and so art not Justified nor never shalt be Stop thy Mouth thou Sorcerer The same that justifies us shall condemn thee Eternally The manner of Christs being in the Saints thou knowest not who art a Reprobate and shalt find him to thy Eternal Condemnation O thou dark Beast and Conjurer Querying with thy conjured words Thou Blasphemer thou Serpent thou dark Sottish Beast c. † Ed. Burroughs blessed God that had discovered the Querist saying thy Queries are answered lovingly and plainly in Scripture Language and Terms Ibid. p. 34. Edw. Burroughs's works pag. 29. to 34. 3. That VVill. Pen by the sence of the Eternal Spirit doth declare That those Cursing Railing and Lying Answers of Edw. Burroughs were the only fit Answers to the Priests Trappaning Questions See Dial. 3. pag. 80. Will. Pen. Oh ungodly Slander the Lord rebuke thy Foul spirit Counterfeit Christ pag. 44. Tho. Hicks These are William Pens words with respect to the Answers Edw. Burroughs gave to the 20 Questions before hinted I warrant it saith Pen from God and by the sence of his Eternal Spirit do declare That it was the Portion and only fit answer to be given to those Trappaning questions † O horrid Excuse of such Raylings which is far worse than the Answers given And had Edw. Burroughs gone into a Familiar opening unto his Vulterous Unclean Serpentine Eye all the deep things of the Spirit of God and Mysteries of Holy Kingdom who was in that Nature that Crucified the Lord of them Edw. Burroughs had brought the wrath of the Eternal God upon himself instead of the Priest Will. Pen Reas against Rayl pag. 164. 4. Another Evil I accuse them of is Preferring their Pamphlets before the Bible This was proved from the Titles they give to their own books and the Titles they give to the Scripture viz. The Voice of Wisdom Breathings of true Love Shield of Truth A Spiritual Glass Light risen out of Darkness These are the Titles given to several of their books But the Scriptures are called Letter Dead Letter Paper Ink and Writing Carnal Letter c. 'T is easie to judge by these Titles to which the preference is given 5. They bid people follow the Light within and if they do not they load them with bitter Revilings Will. Pen calls this a great Lye Reas against Rayl pag. 154. 156. VVhereas the truth of this is so notorious that it needs no proof Witness their Railings at such that in Conscience oppose them and their Errors 6. They say