other Age or that I have since said that any continue the same practice he would but deceive Men for it is nothing so And p. 74 of Postscript My Book was written 1649. A little before common uncontrolled same was that not far from us in one place many of them were Baptized naked c. So that all this being laid together he would have us think that this respected only some in the first rise of the Sect as common fame gave it a little before he wrote his Book in 49 but in no Age or time ever since But how little Truth or Honesty there is in this shuffle let the Reader judge For 1st It is manifest that Anabaptisme had not its rise about this time as he seems to insinuate for not to mention the Anabaptists in H. the 8th's time and Queen Elizabeths also as exprest at large in the Treatise of Baptism p. 306. c. There were divers Churches of Anabaptists in the Nation many years before this so that if he respected the beginning of the Sect he is far less competent to report common fame for so long before than Mr. Fisher to deny it 3 years after But 2dly it is manifest that the Book it self that reports it doth not give it as a hear-say of something past and practiced by a few but of the known practice of their Sect at the time of the writing thereof his words are as before remark'd viz. My 7th Argument is against another wickedness in their manner of Baptizing which is their dipping persons naked as is very usual c. viz. as they practiced at that time of the writing of his Book by such naked Baptizing or next to naked not a word of Common Fame of some people before that time as now he would be thought to intend but their known practice at that present Falshood 1 Thirdly His next Subterfuge to which he flies for some relief is from the place where then he would be thought to intend it was so practiced having it seems now found out a particular place near them wherein to center it and by which he would be understood not to mean it to be universal His words are these p. 74. Postscript Common uncontroul'd fame was that not far from us in one place many of them were Baptized naked reproproving the clothing way as Antiscriptural And therefore tells us He applyed to Mr. Tombes himself and to divers of his Church who denyed it not And p. 75 Gives one reason why Mr. Haggar and Fisher were not competent Judges of a matter of Fact far from them viz. Mr. Fisher in Kent and Haggar in Staffordshire and Mr. Baxter and Mr. Tombes in Worcestershire and the place intended â—ear or not far from Kedderminster But whether this Fig-leaf will afford him any more cover than the former will easily appear For First it is clear the Book it self reporting it doth not confine it to any such place in their Neighbourhood but detects it to be the ordinary practice of the Anabaptists to Baptize naked or next to naked And Secondly His More Proofs tells us the fame hereof was so universal that it was the common consent of that present time and that to deny it would be to take all sorts then living for Lyars But Thirdly it appears he has very much miss'd his Mark and ill layed his matters together to make the Anabaptists in his Neighbourhood who own'd Mr. Tombes to be their Pastor and Administrator as now he affirms to have been the most interessed persons p. 75. and most principally concern'd in this matter of Fact since at another time he confesseth Mr. T. was of another Judgment so that if very many of them did so usually practice the naked Dipping it must be without their Admiministrator But Fourthly to put the matter out of Doubt his own words in his More Proofs will rectify him and at least discover to him that he has an ill memory vix p. 282 where he tells us That in 47 and 48. He lived near Mr. Tombes in a Countrey where some were and within the hearing of their practice in other parts of the Land and that in that their beginning the common fame of Ministers and People was that in divers places some Baptized naked and some did not So that here the common fame it seems respected not only one place in their Neighbourhood but divers places throughout the Land and therefore assigns common consent at that time and all sorts then Living to affirm it And the Original Book as before That it was the usual and ordinary wicked practice of the whole party at that time to dip naked or next to naked which was much as one in his account Falshood The Fourth shift he makes is respecting the evidence he yet stands by to make it good viz 1st The Positive Testimony viz Common Fame 2dly The Negative or Circumstantial Testimony viz. The non-denial of any no not the most interessed persons themselves To the 1st His More Proofs p. 282. assirms it to be common fame and common consent and his Postscript common uncontrolled fame And again in these words viz. And in a matter of Fact if that fame be not credible which is of things late and near and not contradicted by any one we must surcease humane converse But what this signifies let all men judge It is true when I call'd upon him for satisfaction for this groundless slander he tells us 26 years after That he had it by common fame of Ministers and People and by common consent at the present time and to deny it was to take all sorts then living for Lyars and again common uncontrolled fame But is it not very strange that if it had been such a common uncontrolled fame at that time that no man should mention it but Mr. B. The Anabaptists having many bitter Enemies who then and before that time wrote against them and was it not much that none of them should meet with that common fame but he for surely if they had we had heard of it from other hands besides his own Though as to that kind of Evidence viz. common fame I had thought I had inserted enough from Mr. B's own Pen out of his Christian Directory for ever to have prevented his insisting on it any more which tells us It is the most common Cloak for the most inhumane lies and Calumnies c. And was not that the Testimony which made the Waldenses such Villains Paul such an Heretick and put Christ to death c. But to put the matter out of Doubt the ground you will find that first he assign'd for the matter of Fact was not common fame bear-say or bare words which as he heretofore own'd was so uncertain a thing yea so great a Lyar but known experience as his own words evidence viz. p. 138. plain Scrip. But in both these Cases viz. That of Murder and Adultery by dipping naked in cold water we dispute not against bare
of his shameful Billings-gate Language so unbecoming either a Man or a Christian p. 259. Wherein if I am found tardy I shall willingly submit to the just censure of the faithful Examiner If not I hope it will be judged but reasonable that Mr. B. should hear the blame and shame of such Temerity and Injustice 3. The 2 Iâ—stances insisted on 3dly As to these 2 Particulars he is pleased to pick out of the bundle and to give his exceptions against notwithstanding the uselesness as he pleased to tell us of enumerating Particulars I shall punctually and particularly reply to and the rather because it must be supposed since he vouchsafes to mention any that they are of the greatest moment and by which he would have the rest judged he doth not mention 1. About Baptizing naked The first and that upon which he lays the greatest stress is that about Baptizing naked telling us in these words p. 74. That he finds but one thing in the Book that needeth any other Answer than to peruse what is already written and that is about Baptizing naked And therefore he is pleased in 2 Pages to give us several new shifts to avoid the dint of the evidence that seems to gall his Conscience instead of such an honest owning of his guilt and taking the shame that such notorious slanders and opprobrious evil-dealing calls for tending as you 'l find rather to heighten and aggravate than to lessen or extenuate his crimes And which for method-sake are gathered up to you vnder the following Heads viz. First About what he saith relating to the Report it self 2dly The time when 3dly The place where 4ly The evidence he yet stands by to justifie himself therein Falshood 1 First as to the Report it self he now denies That he ever affirmed it to be our ordinary practice to Baptize naked His words are these p. 75. The truth is that 3 years after mistaking my words as if I had affirmed it to be their ordinary practice as you may read in them which I never did nor thought They vehemently deny this And such heedless reading occasioneth many of Mr. D's accusatioms Insinuating thereby that his accusations and reflections respected only some of the Anabaptists but not their party and way and therefore those that had mistakingly opposed him denyed that it was their ordinary practice so to Baptize which he affirmed not But what truth there is in this shift let the Reader Judge For you 'l find in his plain Scripture Proof the Book wherein the accusation is where he principally designs to render the Anabaptists and their way odious and ridiculous he gives 8 Arguments against their way of Baptizing and puts this Title to the Head of those Chapters viz. Arguments to probe the Anabaptists way of Baptizing sinful All respecting the whole party of Anabaptists not some of them only Then in p. 136. comes to his 7th Argument VVherein he thus expresseth himself viz. My 7th Argument is against another wickedness in their viz. the Anabaptists manner of Baptizing which is their dipping persons naked as is viz. at that present not was very usual with many of them or next to naked which is usual with the modestest of them and in p. 137. if next to naked the difference is not great And then from their usual or ordinary custom of Baptizing naked or next to naked which in his esteem is much as one thus argues p. 136. If it be a breach of the 7th Commandment â—t must also â—e owned â—hat the sin â—f naked â—ipping was so very usual with many and not disowned by the â—est he night very well attribute it to the whole Thou shalt not Commit Adultery ordinarily to Baptize naked Then it is intollerable wickedness and not Gods Ordinance But it is a breach of the 7th Commandment ordinarily to Baptize naked Therefore it is intollerable wickedeness and not Gods Ordinance Upon which saith Mr. Fisher I perceive he takes it for a truth that we ordinarily dip naked and thereupon disputes against it as our usual practice And thereupon his own Quaere-man Mr. Barrott whom he commends so highly doth in his Book writ this present year called Good will to Men in p. 443. tell us viz. What Mr Baxter hath written of this practice viz of Dipping in our Circumstances p. 134 to 138 of his plain Scripture deserves to be well weighed for so far as I am able to judge he there clearly proves that our Dippers break the Commandment of God viz. the 7th Commandment here mentioned to follow their Tradition And pray you let Mr. Wills resolve us when he tells us That the Anabaptists Doctrine leads to Blasphemy and Immorality and refers us to Mr. Baxter for some proof thereof whether he doth not also intend this very passage So that I presume this figment that he did not intend us all will signifie little except it be more fully to detect his own unfaithfulness For first his scope and design is to reach the whole party herein 2ly His 3 Arguments fully take in the whole in every one of them 3ly The Instance it self in the 7th Argument most expresly doth it who are so wicked as he saith to dip naked or next to naked in their usual way of Baptizing 4ly The Argument it self whereby he would render us Adulterors and Violaters of the 7th Commandment is for our ordinary or usual Baptizing naked or next to naked 5ly You see others of his own Party have been so heedless as he calls it as well as our selves so to understand it 6ly That Mr. Fisher who especially opposed him for the same 3 years after doth not only deny it to be our ordinary practice to Baptize naked but that any that ever he heard did ever so practice it in this Nation that belonged to any of the Churches challenging him to produce but one Instance of any Maid or Woman that in any serious wise was so Baptized Falshood 2 Secondly His next shift that he hopes to get relief from as an Argument he meant some of them only and not the Party themselves is from the time when this was mentioned which now 26 years after he would perswade us respected only some in the first beginning of the Sect. His words ate these p. 282. More Proofs viz. That in the Year 1647 or 1648. when Anabaptistry began to be obtruded with more successful fervency I lived near Mr. Tombes in a Countrey where some were and within the hearing of their practice in other parts of the Land and that in that beginning the common fame of Ministers and People was that in divers places some Baptized naked and some did not And p. 283. Most Sects do in their height and heat at first that which afterwards they surcease with shame mentioning the Denatists Munster Anabaptists Ranters and Quakers And again If he would perswade the World that I wrote that of all the Anabaptists or of most or of any in any
words but experiences and known practices for their naked Baptizing is a known thing and the wickedness that hath followed on some and that some have dyed of it viz. of naked Baptizing not a word of common consent or common fame And thereupon saith Sam. Fisher Sith that I perceive he takes it for a Truth that we ordinarily dip naked and thereupon disputes against it as our usual practice And then not confidently only but of a certain relates to the whole World that it is no bare words nor any doubtful thing but an experience or known practice if he can clear himself let him do it who also summon him in the Name of Christ Jesus to prove it our practice ordinarily to Baptize naked or produce but any one Witness of any Woman or Maid c. And Mr. Haggar thereupon whilst he chargeth us to break the 7th Commandment lays him under the breach of the 9th for falsely accusing his Neighbour therein Falshood As to the 2d concerning his Negative or Circumstantial Testimony which he yet with so much confidence stands by viz. That none have to him denyed it no not those who were most concerned therein viz. Mr. Tombes and his Church his words are these p. 75. Post He now tells me That Mr. Fisher Mr. Haggar and Mr. Tombes did deny it Let any one read Mr. T 's Answer to me yea and that passage by him now cited and see whether there be a word of denial Mr. Fisher or Mr Haggar he never saw their Books he had seen but never read 2 Leaves to his remembrance of Mr Fishers nor all Mr. Haggars if he had he had not taken them for competent Judges of a Fact far from them and that 3 years after could they say that no one ever did so Affirming positively That none ever denyed it to him nor did he ever read any that did deny it And in More Proofs p. 282. When Mr. T. answered my Book and those very Passages he never denyed the truth of the thing though he did not so Baptize himself intimating others might In answer whereto we must first observe to you his fallacious quibble herein viz That none ever denyed it to him But what did they not deny viz. That though they did not themselves so practice nor knew nor heard of any that so did yet they did not deny but some might because they did not know all things But how will this relieve Mr. B. It is true this might have been something if it had been all that Mr. B. had charged viz. That some in some place he knew not where might do such a thing But his accusation was far otherwise viz. That the Anabaptists Baptizing naked was a known thing and an usual practice of very many in divers places of the Land and next to naked by the modestest of them which was much as one and therefore brings the wickedness of Adultery therein to bear and reflect upon the whole party and way as their usual and ordinary practice which naked Baptizing Mr. Tombes Haggar and Fisher do all of them so positively deny as well they may it being the true purport sence and meaning of his accusation For otherwise let Mr. B. consider how ridiculous and foolish it would be for an Anabaptist hearing that some Presbyterian in some part of the Land did play some mad Pranks should thereupon charge Presbytery it self therewith and draw Arguments against the whole party and way for the same As Mr. B. would now be thought by this kind of arguing to charge the Anabaptist and their way And that Mr. T 's Answer to him as suggested had no other signification than what is before hinted take his own words in a Letter lately writ to me in Answer to one I sent to him since Mr. B's Postscript came forth confining the naked Baptizing to Worcestershire or their Neighbourhood thereabouts about 48 to 49. to know whether he ever heard of any such thing in those parts return'd to me as followeth viz. That he never heard or knew of any that Baptized naked in those parts and that if he did not deny they might be Baptized naked though he doth not remember that ever that Question was put to him by Mr. B. or any body else it was because he could not say there were none unless he were omniscient some in former times having done so as Vossius tells us And therefore Mr. B himself in his More Proofs p. 283. can tell me That in a Negative 25 years after I cannot possibly be a competent Witness no nor if I had written at that time for who can say that there was no such thing done beyond his knowledge Which is most certain it being therefore the affirmers part to prove and which being required from Mr. B. he cannot produce And as for what he saith That none denyed this slander to him it is notoriously manifest that both Mr. Tombes the same year Mr. Fisher and Mr. Haggar the 2 following years after denyed the same to him for they all wrote against him to detect his injustice therein and for his now saying he read but 2 Leaves of Mr. Fisher and not all Mr. Haggars is but miserable trifling for if Mr. B. write his mind in any thing and expresses it but in an Epistle to another Book his usual way of dictating or in some small Postscript or Pitance in any of his Numerous Volumes he expects all the World should take notice of it and if any that write against him chance to overlook it at their perils be it and of which they must expect to hear roundly And can it be thought that he who was the great Hector and Champion yea esteemed so much the Mall of the Anabaptists would pretend to answer their Arguments and not read their Books and that in the height of the controversie and especially wherein matter of Fact was concerned and that of so hainous a nature too And can it be though reasonable that Mr. B. should be so shamefully injudicious to recommend Fishers Book to the World to be considered in the Controversie as he did and not read the same Mr. Lamb and Mr. Allen who have both of them left us yet exceedingly as I hear blame Mr. B. for his broaching much more for his so defending this slander who cannot only testify to the seemliness of our Baptism but their utter ignorance of so much as the report of naked Baptizing among us But it is manifest in his own words That guilt is tender and self-love-strong Ep. before Dr. Tulley's Answer and therefore no wonder to see all these Shifts to save his reputation But whether such evil dealing not to repeat the same measure meated to the Vanists for which he has given no satisfaction doth not bespeak an an maimed either in his Morals or Intellects and without repentance and due satisfaction utterly unfit to write us Bodies of Divinity Christian Directories and Catholick Theologies is left to the