Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	place_n	see_v	word_n	2,489	5	3.7412	3	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00791	An answer to a pamphlet, intituled: The Fisher catched in his owne net In vvhich, by the vvay, is shevved, that the Protestant Church was not so visible, in al ages, as the true Church ought to be: and consequently, is not the true Church. Of which, men may learne infallible faith, necessarie to saluation. By A.C.	A. C.; Champney, Anthony, 1569?-1643?, attributed name.; Sweet, John, 1570-1632, attributed name.; Floyd, John, 1572-1649, attributed name.; Fisher, John, 1569-1641, attributed name.	1623 (1623)	STC 10910.4; ESTC S107710	44,806	106

are these My spirit which is in thee and my wordes which I haue put in thy mouth shall not depart out of thy mouth nor out of the mouth of thy seede nor out of the mouth of thy seedes seede from henceforth for euer Againe Their seed shall be knowne in Nations and their branches among people all that see them shall know them that these are the seed which our Lord hath blessed Againe Thy gates shal be opened continually day and night they shall not be shut that the strength of the Nations and their kinges may enter into thee for the nation and kingdome which shall not serue thee shall perish You are the light of the world a Citty built vpon a hill cannot be hid Tell the Church c. He that will not heare the Church let him be vnto thee as an heathen and Publican Going teach all Nations baptizing them c. Behould I am with you to wit your selues and successors teaching and baptizing all dayes vntill the end of the world Conformable to which Scriptures are also innumerable plaine places of ancient Fathers which may bee seene in Coccius and among others S. Augustine who saith that the Church being built vppon a moūtayne cannot be hid Out of these and other plaine places of of Scriptures Fathers euident Reasons also may be deduced shewing that the Church must needs bee visible in all ages As for example that otherwise it cannot bee such a Church as Christ did institute nor could it performe those offices which Christ appointed it to performe nor could those which were in it be instructed by it nor those which were out of it be cōuerted to it nor Heretiques pretending to be the Church cōvinced not to be it Wherfore out later Pro testants being not able to sayle any longer against this ineuitable Scylla without apparent daunger to split their boate would needes rather then turne back to the safe hauen of the visible Catholique Roman Church aduenture vpon the Charybdis of contemning all Monuments of ancient histories and the plaine experience of their primitiue Protestant Patriarches hoping to escape by landing vpon the imaginary Iland of inuisible recordes supposed to haue byn written and after suppressed in the pretended Popes persecution of the visible Members of their inuisible Church in the Ages before Luther a shift very vnsafe and such as if it were good might serue any other Sect of ancient or present Heretiques as well as our moderne Protestants if they would pretend to haue had a continuall visible Church of their profession But alas who seeth not that these be meere imaginary Chymaera's or dreames For if any such people had beene practizing especially rites of their religion though neuer so secretly they could not euen with a Giges ring haue passed vnseene but eyther with their positiue profession of their owne doctrine which in some cases obligeth all true beleeuers or at least with negatiue profession of fayth by which all faythfull men and at all tymes are obliged neuer to make shew and profession of a contrary religion they or some of them could not choose but to haue beene noted And if for that cause any persecution were in that age as is supposed infallibly they would haue beene taken as others of other Religions in like cases ordinarily are taken and imprisoned or otherwise so punished as the world could not haue beene ignorant of their persons nor Historyes set out by friendes or enemies silent in setting downe as vsually is done their names conditions opinions punishments and persecutions in such tyme such place c. And if such recordes of such conspicuous things had been set down in historyes it is not possible that the memory of such notorious matters could be razed both out of bookes and out of the mindes of men who without booke do continually deliuer in words to their successors what they saw with their eyes or heard with their eares of their predecessors or read in books to haue byn don to such persons as professed such a Religion or to haue beene done to such bookes in which mention was made of such persecution made against professors of that Religion To say therefore that such persons were and yet no record in any booke or other memory of them or that once such Recordes were but after were by the Pope razed or burned and yet no mention made in any booke or other monument that such razing or burning of bookes was by such a Pope at such a tyme c. as we can yet out of good Recordes tell the bookes burned by Dioclesian the Grande Persecutor of Christians To say I say this is senselesse and plainely sheweth that these men who sought to auoyd the Scylla of an inuisible Church by this shift fal into the Charybdis of speaking against sense and experience and indeed runne backe vpon the Scylla of the same inuisible Church for auoyding whereof they deuised this sandy shift of inuisible Persecutours inuisible Persecutions inuisible Recordes of nameles supposed to be visibly persecuted members of the Protestant Church in all Ages before Luther O misery O madnes of our poore deceaued Protestants What Is it possible that Luther and Lutherans Caluin and Caluinists yea our owne Countrey-men prime Protestants conuinced with the cleere euidency of things in their own dayes and with plaine Recordes of all ancient Monuments for former ages doe confesse as you heare euen now that Luther was the first that announced or published Christ that he was the first Apostle of the Reformed doctrine and this so certainely that they do account it impudency and ridiculous to say That there were other visible Protestants in Germany before Luther that they proue by argument this to be impossible that they acknowledge themselues in this Lutheran Reformation to haue departed from all the world that at Luthers and Caluins comming no ordinary vocatiō of Church-men without which the visible Church cannot be was extant in any place that the Church both then and for many hundred yeares before was wholly latent and inuisible Is it possible I say that all this should be cōfessed by the primitiue Parents and prime Doctours of Protestancy and that now their professed children schollers and in respect of them Punyes in Protestant diuinity dare be so bold as D. Featly was in the late conference to controlle and contradict those his grand Maisters in not only affirming but offering to proue by a Syllogisme and by a Demonstration à priori that the Protestant Church hath beene in all Ages visible and O wonder so visible as the names of the particular men may be shewed in all ages out of good Authors and further offering to second this Syllogisme by a full Induction in which he vndertooke actually to set downe their particuler names in euery seuerall age Surely the aforesayd Protestants if they had beene present would haue wondered to see such boldnes and would haue censured this attēpt to

out of good Authors And therfore as he had heard the Roman Catholiks made no difficulty to produce out of good Authors the Names of their Pastors people in all Ages so he much desired to heare whether the Names of Protestant Pastors and Preachers in all Ages could not also be produced out of good Authors for if they could he meant to remaine a Protestant as he had been all his life time but if they could not he thought it necessary to leaue the Protestants and to adhere to the Roman Church to learne of it Faith necessary to saluation By this appeareth that the sense and meaning of the Question could be no other then that which M Fisher explicated in the Conference viz. Whether the Protestant Church was in all Ages so visible especially in the Ages before Luther as the Names of Protestant Pastors and Preachers in all Ages may be shewed out of good Authors And further that in case the Protestant Disputant should vndertake as he did tooto boldly vndertake the affirmatiue part saying and offering to proue in generall that the Names of such Pastors and Preachers of Protestāt Religion may be shewed in all Ages out of good Authors it should further be required as M. Fisher required of him that he should actually name in particular in euery seuerall Age such Pastors and Preachers as he thought he could proue and defend to be Protestants For if the Question had not been thus vnderstood it should not haue been answerable to the occasion and end aboue sayd Neyther could the Protestant Disputant sufficiently satisfie the doubt of the old Gentlemā being chiefly caused in that he had heard that no Protestant could name Pastors and Preachers of his profession in all Ages out of good Authors So as to satisfy this doubt it was not sufficient only to say nor only in generall to proue by such Syllogismes as D. Featly made which were such as the old Gentleman I dare say did not vnderstand that the Names of Protestants in all Ages may be shewed but as M. Fisher had shewed him a printed booke in which Roman Catholike Pastours and people were in particuler named in all Ages so he expected Protestant Pastours and people of all Ages to be named in particuler and after proued and defended to be Protestants as M. Fisher was ready to proue and defend whom he would in particuler name to be Roman Catholikes Furthermore although it may seeme to some not much materiall whether the Protestant Disputant hath begun to name first those of the first Age next of the second and so downward vntill Luther or cōtrary wise to beginne with Luther and so vpward till the Apostles and Christ yet both the words of the Question the doubt of the old Gentleman had byn far better satisfied and the Tergiuersation which D. Featly vsed in the first age auoyded if M. Fisher had vrged him as he might first to beginne with the Age immediatly before Luther a confessed Protestant and so go vpward vntill Christ the confessed Fountayne of infallible perpetuall vnchanged Truth for then it would haue been cleerly seene euen by the Confessiō of learned Protestants particularly Luther himselfe and others that those who eyther are named or can yet be named by D. Featly after he hath sought as I am told he went to seeke Records in the great Library in Oxford were not visible Protestants but of a different Profession Fayth and Religion and so different as that they cannot be iustly deemed members of one and the same Protestant Church with Luther after his Apostacy from his Religious Order and reuolt from the Roman Catholike Fayth For proofe wherof I for breuityes sake do refer euery one who desireth full satisfaction in this point to what is largely related and proued in the Protestants Apology in diuers places but particularly tract 2. cap. 2. sect 11. subdiuision 3. And will only content my selfe to cyte these few testimonyes for their sakes who haue not commodity to see that booke First therefore Luther himselfe sayth We dare boast that Christ was first published by vs. Wherefore the Latheran Conradus Schushelburg sayth It is impudency to say that many learned men in Germany and the like is of other Countreys before Luther did hould the doctrine of the Lutheran Ghospell And another of them not only sayth in effect thus much but proueth it by this argument If there had beene right beleeuers that went before Luther in his office there had beene no need of a Lutheran reformation Another sayth It is ridiculous to thinke that in the tyme before Luther any had the purity of doctrine and that Luther should receaue it from them not they from Luther considering sayth he it is manifest to the whole world that before Luthers tyme all Churches were ouerwhelmed with more then Cymerian darkenes and that Luther was diuinely raysed vp to discouer the same to restore the light of true doctrine And least this may be thought to haue beene only the conceipt of Luther and Lutherans who yet could better tell then D. Featly D. White and such other new Maisters I will add heereunto what is sayd first by Caluin who doth acknowledge That in this Lutheran reformation there was made a discession or departure from all the world Secondly by Bucer who calleth Luther the first Apostle of the reformed doctrine Thirdly by Beza a principall Caluinist who teacheth that at this tyme ordinary vocation of the Church-men was no where extant and consequently teacheth that ther was at that tyme no visible Church and so if any Church at all it was only inuisible as is affirmed euē by our owne English Protestant Deuines namely M. Iewel who sayth The truth was vnknown and vnheard of when Martin Luther and Vldericke Zuinglius first came to the knowledge and preaching of the Ghospel And M. Perkins who sayth We say that before the dayes of Luther for the space of many hundred yeares an vniuersall Apostacy ouerspread the whole face of the earth and that our Protestant Church was not visible to the World I might adde many more testimonyes of others who eyther in expresse tearmes or in effect affirme the Protestant Church to haue beene in many Ages before Luther latent and altogeather inuisible which indeed was the common opinion of Protestāts at their first vprysing who on the one side thought they could with shiftes bettter answere places of scripture which made often and honourable mention of the Church then they could answere the euidence of Histories and of their owne experience shewing that no visible Protestants were extant before themselues But now of late diuers plaine places of Scripture and Fathers hauing beene produced and such euident reasons deduced out of them prouing ineuitably that the true Church of Christ of which all sorts must learne infallible sayth necessary to saluation must needes be visible in all Ages as to omitt others