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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	place_n	scripture_n	word_n	3,630	5	4.1781	3	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85699	A Welsh narrative, corrected, and taught to speak true English, and some Latine. Or, Animadversions on an imperfect relation in the perfect diurnall, Numb. 138. Aug.2. 1652. Containing a narration of the disputation between Dr Griffith and Mr Vavasor Powell, neer New-Chappell in Mountgomery-shire, July 23. 1652.	Griffith, George, 1601-1666.	1652 (1652)	Wing G1999; Thomason E675_10; ESTC R206748	20,287	27

of Divines for approbation By your favour if it were so the course was a little preposterous For examination and approbation should regularly go before Ordination And lastly allowed he was by the Parliament The Doctor took his word for his own story As for any other Ministers how they were gifted elected approved there was not a word spoken as either I or any of my acquaintance that were present can remember Whereby the reader may observe how M. Powell declined wholly both parts of his first comparative Question alledging nothing against the Ministery he hath so so long traduced and for amends making his own in nothing different from it And in that case he might well expect to meet no opposition from sober men Narrat As for the gifted men they were sent forth upon triall Animad It may be so The Doctor never troubled himself to enquire after them neither who they were nor yet how gifted It may be you mean The Smith Weaver Capper Souldier c. that are sent about and well rewarded to try what they can propagate Of them there was no more said in effect but this M. Powell asked whether it might not be lawfull for a man unordained to preach for triall It was answered that it was And it was usual both in the Universities and before other governours of the Church Ye● I have known a Bishop and he is still living that would not be induced to lay hands on any stranger before he had heard him preach But then the Doctor asked Mr. Powell how long they were to be Probationers how many Sermons would be sufficient for triall and who to judge or to that effect To which he received no answer The Tradesmen I now mentioned have been these two or three years upon their triall as it seemeth and are likely to be longer yet for all I know Narrat Severall Scriptures were urged for Separation and how they were necessitated to separate by reason of persecution and corruption in those times Anim. It is not urging Scriptures that will serve the turn never any Heretick so desperate but could make a shift to do so but proving by Scripture that vindicateth truths and makes them credible You would have the world beleeve you did so But it appeareth partly by your own difference that it was otherwise For if it had been so it would have bin well worth your labour to have acquainted the Reader with the particular Texts how applied to the matter in hand and how answered which because you have wholly omitted such is your exactnesse give me leave briefly to supply The first Scripture urged was Num 16 v. 26. or 24. It is not much materiall whether To which the Doctor answered immediately That that Scripture was nothing at all to the purpose which Mr. Powell alleadged it for being a peculiar case wherein the Lord in an extraordinary dispensation gave a speciall command to the innocent part of the Congregation to separate from the rest to the end he might execute his Justice in an exemplary unusuall way upon the guilty in that very instant By opening the story he shewed the hainousnesse of the sin the greatnesse of Gods displeasure against it and the extraordinary judgement thereupon And that extraordinary occasionall commands of God to that people are not to be drawn into example by us And for this particular the Jews case and Mr. Powel's were in no circumstance alike Mr. Powell said nothing to the contrary but went on to another Scripture and that was 1 Cor. 5 11. With such a one no not to eat The Dr. being weary of standing in the heat of their impertinencies staid not to presse him to apply the Text or form his argument out of it but presently answered That that Scripture was nothing to their purpose of Separation neither as might plainly appear by the scope and sense of the whole Chapter wherein the Apostle first proposeth the case of the incestuous person then blameth the Corinthians for what they did in that behalf directeth them to proceed to Censure against him to excommunicate him giveth the use and reasons of his Command and extendeth the Discipline to other scandalous offendors also Adulterers Railers Covetous Extortioners c. Such also are to be excommunicated according to the expresse command v. 13. Put away the wicked person from among you This Scripture speaketh of the Censure of the Church not of gathering Congregations of putting away corrupt members from the Church not of gathering a Church of severall Congregations This being said Mr. Powell made no reply but went on to a third place of Scripture 2. Tim. 3. 5. From such turn away The Dr. presently told him 1. That the relative such was to be referred to all the sorts of sinners whereof the foregoing verses gave a catalogue and the Moderator said they were nineteen in number and desired to know whom Mr. Powell charged to be so guilty 2. The charge there to Timothy a Governour of the Church is but turn away which is a signe of dislike or displeasure a command to shew no countenance to such but reprove them rather Not to leave his station and to go and gather a new Church but if the force of the word must be extended further to turn such out of the Church as he was invested with power being a Bishop so to do Mr. Powell replied the Doctor said rightly That the word such was to be referred to all that went before And then he went on to another place of Scripture Acts 19. 9. The Dr. without looking on any book all the while told him that Text answered it self by the circumstances The Apostles case and theirs was nothing alike The Apostle had to do there with hardned blaspheming Jews and idolatrous Heathen Infidels that set themselves against the Name of Christ and Profession of Christianity to persecute it It was time for him to separate and be gone when it was not safe to stay any longer Then Mr. Powell replied This justifieth my Separation for I was persecuted I do not well remember how long since The Doctor answered He was able to say nothing to things he knew nothing of heretofore For the present God be thanked they had no such cause to complain Master Powell then took occasion to acquaint the company with an affront a gifted Brother met with lately at Dolgelly in Merionethshire neer thirty miles off He was violently plucked out of the Pulpit and his blood drawne This was news to the most part of the company But since I hear the man was an unordained Tradesman sent forth it should seem for triall and this was part of it And this is all that was alledged for necessity of separation in case of persecution And this is all the commotion in Wales as I beleeve spoken of in the beginning of the Diurnall They want some pretence to bring the Souldiery againe amongst us Narrat When the Dr and Moderator perceived how all things were they had nothing to say against him and were quite silent Anim. You should have considered that the Doctor and Moderator came not there to oppose but answer and that they had done and expected either further opposition or liberty to be gone The Dr. might well be silent being grown so hoarse that his voice was hardly audible The Dr. faith indeed he had a purpose to have concluded with a short speech to the company recollecting the passages but wanting voice to do it he turned away in silence leaving the Reader now to do it for him Narrat There was nothing intended against the godly Ministers of England nor their People though of differing judgements Animad No what say you to the Dr. and his people are they not godly or was there nothing here intended against them Speak the truth or eat these words again or give your selves the lye The time was when the Commissioners for the propagation of the Gospel gave the Doctor this testimony tanquam à tripode I meane the Chaire man in the name of the rest that he was a man without exception and somewhat more which is not here so pertinent to relate And for point of difference in judgement Master Powell expressed himself more then ordinarily charitable saying he was perswaded that many that dissented from him in opinion of severall professions some Papists also might be saved What was done by the other party after their departure it cannot be expected that the Doctor or any of his company should give any accompt I was told indeed I cannot say how truly that a young man of Master Powel's company drew some people after him to the side of the Common and there inveighed against Learning and all such as professe it Doctors and others It may be it was not so But if it were it is no news amongst them The Doctor was told beforehand by a knowing friend what would be the issue of this businesse and he himself professed he expected no other but such indeavours to blast his credit as are here used in this Narrative well knowing that what Luther applied unto himself is indeed every good mans case Hos scio pro certo quod dum cum stercore certo Vinco seu vincor semper ego maculor This for a truth I apprehend Whil'st with a T I do contend Prevaile I or prevaile I not I am sure to take a spot I am confident the Doctor will give me little thanks for my Poetry who delighteth not in recriminations although interpretative And it is too apparently known whence all the dirt is taken up which they have endeavoured to fling in his face even from the sink of their own corruption So farewell Master Narrative and learn to be more faithfull and exact in your relation of the next Dispute FINIS