as his fooâ—â—stool Psalm 98. Why should everie knee bow at the Name of Jesus For the word being but a sign of the thing signified is no better then an Image And why is the place on which the Name of GOD was written called the place of holy veneration Exod. 39. 29. Why do we honour the crown â—ob royal scepter and signs of royal authoâ—itie Why do we call our knights worship That is â— man deserving civil worship as Saints and holy things do religious Why do Protestants make their Fathers Grand-Fathers and Mistâ—ess-Images to keep their memorie rather then that of Christ and his Saints Why in end hate they Christs Image rather then that of Iupiter or dâ—y false God which they never challenge in any mans house Or why leave ye whole the Devils Image commonly painted at St. Michaels foot when they broke the Image of the Arch-Angel Who loves the person loves the Image Judge then whether Protestants love GOD or the Devil best their hatred being only against the Image of GOD and Saints not against these of false Gods and Devils To this your Rhetorication for it is no Reply I answere first That ye misreckon Prote ∣ stants Answer the Commandements of purpose that ye may make the second only an appendix of the first and curtaile it the more easily because it giveth such check to your superstitions worship but I will prove from scripture reason and antiquitie that the Commands should be distinguished as I said and tâ—e second is a command alone First It is clear from scripture that there be ten commandements Deut 10. 14. Secondly it is also clear that the tenth command Thou shalt not covet cannot mak up two because the Apostle Rom. 7. v. 7. maketh it but one 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Thirdly if ye will compare Exod. 20. 17. with Deut. 5. 21. this will also appear true for in Exodus the house is put before the wise But in Deut. it is said first Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours wife and so these cannot be two preceps otherwise the Pen-mâ—â— might be challenged of disorder for not keeping them distinct Would he have thus jumbled two different Commands who can believe it Fourthly Ye mistake the meaning of the tenth Commandment for it is not the inward desire of a mans wise by way of adultery wâ—iâ—her deliberat or not which is there intended That is forbidden in the seventh Command Nor is it the desire of a man his house or oxe by way of stealing that is forbidden in the eight Command but it is a covering of those by way of propriety which is equivalent to that Heb. 13. 5. Let your conversation be without covetousness and be content with that which ye have Now there being but one act in specie forbidden that last Command should not be parted in two Fifthly There be a waste difference betwixt the ultimate object of worship and the manner of worship which requireth two commands and make up the first and second one where of is Thou shalt have no other Gods The other thou shalt worship the true and living GOD without Images and this second Command is explained alone by the Pen-man in Deut. 4. 12. which is not usual in Scripture upon a part of a Command Sixthly The ancient Fathers generally so distinguished them your own Estius acknowledgeth on the 3. sent dist 36. that Clemens Alexandrinus lib. 6. strom distinguisheth them as we do and calleth Thou shalt not covet the tenth precept Athanasius de Synops lib. 2. reckoneth them also after this manner the second Non facies tibi simulacrum The Authour of the imperfect work on Matthew commonly said to be Chrysost hom 49. maketh this the second Command Thou shalt not make any graven Image Naziaz in Carmin Ambros on the 6. chapter to the Eph. Philo. on the decalogue so Josephus in the 3. boâ—k of Antiq are all for our division So we have reason to divide the precepts thus It is clear to any discerner ye take with the breach of the second Command and Vasquez granteth no less lib. 2. de adorat disp 4 cap. 4. It is true sayeth he our practise of worshiping Images cannot be reconciled with the second Command nor with Deut. 4. 12. but Illa legis Mosaicae prohibitio fuit juris positivi ceremonialis quae tempore Evangelii cessare debet Atque id quod alias jure naturali licitum est ut imagines depingere illis ettam uti ad adorationem in lege Evangelica locum habere debet i. e. That prohibition of the Mâ—saicall law was of positive and ceremoniall right which ought to cease in the time of the Gospel And that which otherwise were lawfull by natural right as to paint Images and also to make use of them for worship hath place in the Gospel law also So ye judge that Command albeit one of the ten Moral precepts which Moses calleth ten words ceremonial like the eating of Swins flesh This is short work Ye repeal the law because ye will not obey it Now you say It is not Idolatrie that it is set down in your Bible albeit not in your Catechism Where I observe a trick ye permit not the people generally to read the Bible it is a sealed book to them But because they read the Catechisms there must be castrat lest that Command should make them detest your Idolatrie You say It is not Idolâ—trie seeing ye worship not a false GOD. I return that according to the number of your Cities are your Gods By the vulgar practise ye have a tutelary Saint for your horse sheep corn cattel c. Ye pray for Geese to Saint Feriol for sore beasts to St. Agathâ— for children to St. Giles to St. Hubert for dogs to St. Otilia for the head-ach to St. Russia for madness to St. Valentine for the falling-sickness How then keep ye the first Command Is not he God in whom I trust and whom I do worship as appeareth from Rom. 10. 14. Further the worshipping of God by Images is expresly forbidden in the second Command as the worshiping of a false God is in the first And if Aarons calfe Micah and Jeroboams Images being worshiped rendered the transgressours Idolatrous ye are also guilty For they worshiped the true God in an Idolatrous false way Yea this was the sin of the Gentiles when they knew God thus they changed his Glory Rom. 1. 21. 23. For this it is that Iohn Monceius in his book entituled Aaron Purgatus dedicated to Pope Paul the 5. undertaketh to clear Aaron Micah and Jeroboam from the guilt of Idolatry because they did nothing but what Papists do Melchior Canus lib. de traditionibus cap. 3. acknowledgeth that the worship of Images is condemned in scripture And Cassander consult 21. confesseth that the adoration of Images was condemned in the Councill of Frankford as contrare to scripture So these two heads of my answer that Image-worship is contrare to the second
Air that whore â—itteth on many waters if ye stand on the brink and â—ook long to these your head may take a round and ye fall into the deep Wherefore is it that there be such pompous schenick actings charming musick 〈◊〉 Casuists amongst Romanists if not for â—â—trapping those who go by An old noble man in this land who lived and died a good Protestant told me that when he was young he travelled to Rome and out of curiosity desired he might be admitted to see the Popish ceremonies monuments and rites which the Conclave at first refused but the next day Bellarmin being present who was absent in the former dyet it was granted by his mediation He in this was more wirry then the rest and did take the nearest way for ensnaring the Nobleman albeit it pleased the Lord to preserve him Abstaine then from all appearance of evil and knit not a snare to your self with your own hands The fume of that cup of fornication hath made some drunk make as quick dispatch as ye may home-ward some temptations are best overcome by resisting and standing it out Eph. 6. 14. 1. Pet. 5. 9. others are foiled better by flying nor medling as Idolatry Adultery Fornication 1. Cor. 6. 18. 1. Cor. 10. 14. Flee fornication flee from idolatry saith the Apostle Therefore carry in this as men in infected places come away quickly longe citâ— tarde and lingeâ— nor there lest ye be taken up in the snare Counsel fourth Be bussie in secret when the occasion of publick worship is denyed to you They who have nor the opportunity of a publick market saith one should be the more diligent to have nurseries or store at home In cases of this kind closing of the door and secret work is necessar then ye are called to spend the Lords-day in spiritual meditation prayer praises So was that divine man of GOD employed in the Isle Pathmos and received rich alowance from on high Rev. 1. 10. VVhen David was driven from the Temple he had Temple work alone in the wilderness of Maon the Lord was no wilderness to him When Jacob was retired â—e wrestled and prevailed he found the Lord at Bethel and there he spoke with us Hâ—s 12. 4. That is the fruit of that work and the examplaâ—y carriage of this tender Believer belongeth to the whole Israel of GOD much of the work of a Christian is transacted in secret and we under the Gospel have this priviledge which was not under the Law that the Christian sacrifice reasonable service may be offered every where lo. 4. 23. 1. Tim. 2. 8. it's men when a Christian hath fewest diversions may enjoy much of GOD and himself use greatest freedom have most accesse and word his particular cases best One saith that Jesus Christ is sweet company but frequently sweetest to the sense alone And what is more edifying for a particular Believer amongst Augustines works nor his Soliloquies Tâ—erefore in this exigence meâ—itat much on the Lords Word his Workes your own weakâ—ess wâ—nts receits experiments the excellency of Jesus Christ the bitterness of sin of death judgement eternity and how precious your souls are beyond the gold of Ophir Consider serâ—ously that no merchandise can avail you if ye purchase not the pearle of price who â—â—oweth the worth of that jewel None but he to whom the arm of the Lord is revealed In your secret retirements the Lord may acquaint your hearts with himself and give you songs in the night Baldwin in his cases propoundeth some directions page 206. how men shal be exercised when they are necessitated to desert the publick worship First If the administration of the Word and Sacraments be not embezeld nor corrupted contrar to the written word then none conscionably betake themselves to privat exercise in the time of publick worship because it is contrar to that Heb. 10. 25. forsake not the assembling of your selves as the manner of some is The publick hath more of the promise Matth. 18. 20. This by the context must be understood of such publick meetings as have power of binding and loosing Micah fell into a sin not only of Schism but of Idolatry when in that place where the Lord had called a Ministry he without a call set up privat worship in his house to the prejudice of the publick Iudg. 17. This is his first position which he layeth down as a foundation Secondly If the worship be corrupted as in Popery then Christians should call an orthodoxe Minister who is called of GOD to the work and hath the promise Rom. 10. 14. and go about their worship at home for this he citeth Luther Tom. 6. fol. 275. Thirdly If no Minister can be had in the place where the Lord casteth the lot of a Christian for the time then he should be diligent in reading and searching the Scriptures If his â—ands bâ—come weak here he should take help from conference eiâ—hâ—r with the dead who yet speak by their books or with the living If he be a Master of a family then he may pray read the word of GOD which is an ordinance Deut. 11. 19. and instruct his family according to his ability Now from these posiâ—ions this may be proportionably gatheâ—ed that when Merchants travelling in Popish Countreys stay there on the Sabbath they should be well employed on that day by doing the work of the Lord diligently with both their hands This is the way to be free of the power of teÌ„ptation throughout the week to make you prosper the better in your affairs Our successe in temporalls hath ordinarily a connexion with our through bearing in spirituals as appeareth from the case of Abrahams servant Gen. 24. 14. 15. Câ—urselâ—ifth When ye are deprived thus of the publick worship regrate your mispent Sabbaths mis-heard sermons and that ye made so frequently that feast-day of the Lord a fast-day and starved your self without necessity it is the Winter-season and a providenced retirement to you which in denoâ—nced as a calamity Matth. 24. 24. Beside the sinnes and snares of your calling which are not few the evil use of ordinances at home may bring to your minde this much that it is just with the Lord morally to shut you up that ye cannot come forth Many Prophers and righteous men desired to see the dayes of the Son of man which ye did see and depretiated As in temporals fulness of bread procureth famine so in spirituals when men who have the occasion will not serve the Lord Deut. 28. 47. Spiritual famine is threatned to such Amos 8. Thereforâ— song much for a communion in publick Ordinances with your mother Church And when ye remember her towers bulwarks and how a high throne in the Sanctuary is for the Lord there then let your soul be poured forth in you Psalm 42. 4 and with these who did hang up their harps Psalm 137. by the rivers of Babylon lay bonds on your selves neveâ— to forget your Jerusalem the valley of vision and if the Lord return you home in peace spit not in her face who is the joy of the whole earth but glorifie the Lord in the house of his glorie upon his own day according to the prophecie Isai 60. 7. which now to us is a precept in the beauty of ordinances as in former dayes where the man amongst the myrtle trees cloathed with a garment down to the foot girt about with a golden girdle whose voice is as the sound of many waters shal be seen walking amongst the golden candle-sticks That is festus dies Domini saith Ambrose lib. 2. de Caâ—n Abel cap. 2. ubi perfecta virtutum gratia est ubi victor animus liber est a seculo Then ye dedicat a day to the Lord when ye worship him in spirit and truth thus Fill your heart in secret with fixed purposes to enter on this work at your home-coming seeing ye may better know the worth of Ordinances by the want of them Counsel sixth Pray much in secret for a discovery to Papists of their sinful worship the sight whereof is sufficient to confirm discerning men in the truth professed by us It is lamentable that so many knowing men should upon a secular interest for upholding the pompous Papacie detain the truth in unrighteousness When Ezekiel chap. 8. did see the image of jealousie he mourned and received with the rest of the mourners for the abomination of the place a mark of preservation chap. 9. so should ye do for these abominations Peccatum tuum est quod tibi non dispâ—â—cet said Augustin How shal your displacency be better attested unless ye were called to a publick confession Overcome their evil with good and pray for them who are ready to presecute you that the Lord would turne them from darkness to light and the power of errour to truth As also that he would enlarge the Gospell by the power of his own Arme that yet Rivers may run in that Deseâ—t and the Myrtle may grow where the Bramble is The zeal of the Lord of Hosts can performe this The times are like the latter dayes being so peâ—â—illous See Brightman in Apoc. Mr. Medes Synchronismus and concerning the Apostacie of the latter time Master Durrham on the Revelation then it is that knowledge shall encrease and Babylon fall if many mistake not his minde who governeth all Roma diu titubans variis erroribus acta Corruet mundi desinet esse caput Rome toâ—tering long possest with errours strong Shal tumble down and prime no â—ore ere long FINIS
the determiner of faith and manners First Because the chief and greatest Controversie is about scripture it â—â—lf viz What 〈…〉 scripture what not Now if it be the determiner of faith as you speak in 〈…〉 is the Catalogue of Canonical bookes 〈◊〉 How may it be proved against Luthâ—â— that St. Iames his Epistle is Canonical 〈…〉 against others that Nicodemus and S. Thomas Gospells are not Or if you reject Tobias Judith the bookes of Wisdom Ecclesiasticus and the Maccabees because the Synagogue of the Jewes did so why â—o â—ou not also deny Christ to be the Messias with them Answer This return is rather an evasion then solid reply and is satisfied in the resolution Protest Duply of the sixt Question to which in reason it ought to be referred yet seing tumultuously diverse things are here heaped together I shall sort and discuss them thus First There is no Christian Church which maketh it a Controversie at all whether scripture be the word of God so this is not the chiefest and greatest Controvesie for it is supposed amongst the principles of Christianity and if the Precognita of other science have ex terminis their own notoreiety We should not argument contra negantes principia against them who deny known principles how can this be denyed to Theology seing if we rest not on some principles we must run our selves out of breath and not know where to sist Basil †Basil on Psal 115. telleth 〈…〉 as in every science there be unqueâ—â—â—able principles which are beleeved withoâ—â—â—â—rther demonstration so in the science of 〈◊〉 Theology This is amongst 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 scripture is the word of God if any 〈◊〉 this controversall he is an Antiscripturiâ—â— and Paganish Secondly There be no Controversie betwixt us and the Papists in that wherein we are agreed but both are agreed that all the bookes which we receive for Canonicall scripture are the word of God Ergo this is no Controversie If all the bookes of scripture which we mantaine be the word of God our Adversaries being judges then iâ— must determine faith and manners or else our faith is humane for Bellarmine †Bel. de verbo Dei lib. 1. â— 2. sayeth that Scriptura est regula credendi tutissima certissima the written word is a most sure and certaine rule of beleeving So sayeth Aquinas †Aquinas in Tim. 6. This is sufficient for confirming the first Answere and refuting the first Exceptionâ— Yet to follow your impertineut digression from the power of the scripture-bench to the number of the books I Answere Secondly that the doctrine concerning the number of the scripture books or the names of all them who penned these if comparatively considered that is if you compare the present number with that of the Jewish and ancient Church in pâ—â—mitive times of Christianity is not expliâ—â—â— known and beleeved by all Fide divin◠〈◊〉 first but we come to the knowledge of â—â—e number which the primitive Church mantained as we doe to the names and number of other bookes seing the Catalogue of Canonicall bookes is not set down in scripture All this we attaine without the aid of Romish Councills For the Jewes to whom were committed the oracles of God Rom. 3. 1. 2. whom holy Augustin on Ps 40. calleth Capsarios librarios Christianorum these who keeped the bookes of the old Testament for Christians and fulfilled as he saith that word in part The elder shall serve the younger divide the bookes of the old Testament according to the letters of their Alphabet into two and twenty sometimes into foure and twenty as Eusebius sheweth yet never added to nor Lib. 3. cap. 10. altered a book of the Canon only they would suÌ„me up now and then the book of Ruth with the Judges the book of the Lamentations with the Prophecies of Jeremy and at other times againe reckon them by themselves So they sometimes made but one book of Samuel one of the Kings one of the Chronicles in some editions the whole Minor Prophets were reckoned but one book by them As the scription and writting of the bible is and hath been diverse yet the doctrine contained therein is stil the rule under every character so the Canon of the old Testament finished by the Prophet Malachy was ever the same in the Jewish Church what ever way they calculated the number of these bookes Hierom translated the books of the old TestameÌ„t from the Hebrew and he did admit all the books admitted by us So did the Greek and Latine Church neither for ought we can learn from Authors was there any alteration or addâ—tion till the third Council of Carthage then Can. 47. they recoÌ„mended other books as profitable to be read which are Apocryphal The Canon of the New Testament was finished by Iohn the Evangelist who out lived the rest of the Apostles and the number we have not disclaimed In universa ecclesia Christiana sayeth Hierom ad Dardanum And according to the Councill of Laodiâ—â—a Can. 59. these books were numbered is Canonick only and appointed to be read in all the Churches of Syrla this Councill was holden Annno Dom. 364. Although Luther cast at the Epistle of James we receive it Secondly Luther by some Learned is said to have made a retractation of that errour Thirdly In his Preface to his works he desireth that men would read his books with some commiseration and remember that once he was a Monk Fourthly Your own Cajetan said as much against the Epistle of James as Sirtus Senensis telleth us Biblioth lib. 6. will it therefore follow that ye have no Canon Fifthly Stapleton saith Princ. doct lib. 9. cap. 14. in Defens Ecc. Author that it is not as yet peremptorily defined by your Church whither ye may adde moe books to the present number but we of the reformed Church are agreed in this that these books of the Old and New Testament number them who wil were the Canon received read and exponed in the Primitive Church and none can adde to or alter the doctrine therein contained under the pain of Anathema Rev. 22. 19. It is an admirable providence that the Jews such enemies to Christianity keeped these Prophesies of the Scripture uncorrupted So saith holy Augustin lib. de Consensu Evang. cap. 26. yet you deride that as if the Lord could not keep that holy Canon in the Jews hand which is a witness against them and testifies of him to their confusion Jo. 5. 39. so your consequence â—s bad and impertinent Answer Third Although the numbering or penning of the Scripture books comparatively considered be not simply necessary to be known or believed fide Divina But we come to the knowledge of these as to the number or penner of other books yet absolutly considered to any discerner the books of Scripture father themselves Lege in facie 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Divina read in the face of them divine approbation as in the
not to be thought that privat mâ—n should be barred from searching the scripture seeing it is contrar to that text John 5. 39. where if by searching the Scripture you mean the reading and interpretation of it that cannot be the sense of it For the Apostle Paul saith 1. Cor. 12. GOD hath set in the Church Prophets Apostles Doctors c. Then he addeth are all Apostles are all Prophets are all Doctors do all interpret Then this doth not belong to every man to read and interpret Scripture but to search the deep meaning and sense thereof from the Doctors of the Church For the Jews did search the scripture reading and hearing it read in their Synagogues and yet did deny Christ to be the Messiah which scripture doth clearly testifie Even as Protestants do read Scripture and in it the real presence the power to forgive sins granted to men justification by faith and good works anointing the sick virginity preferred to marriage and yet deny all this Wherefore as Christ exhorteth the Jews to do it with greater reflection and attention not superficially turning and shuffling it over as Protestants do so do I exhort them The word is the sword of the spirit upon which you inferre should any privat man be disarmed amongst his soes So let me tell you that the Apostle calling it a sword sheweth that it should not be put into a mad mans hand or in the hand of a fool i. e. Poor ignorants who as Peter saith wrest it to their own destruction and yet this is your consequence if it should be granted to all privat men Children and fools get not arms amongst their foes wherewith they might rather wrong themselves then their enemies but are under the protection of their Paedagogues and attendants And so the ignorant should not easily handle the sword of the word being ignorant and only capable of the letter but should receive the sense thereof from the Church and her Pastors that it may be to them an arme of defence Pro. Duply 1 Answer first All this is answered fully in the return of the first question to which place I referre the Reader lest I make idle repetition If the rule of right reasoning had been observed nothing of this ought to have come in formerly but here in its own proper place I distinguished betwixt privat men and privat interpretations then betwixt the extraordinar gift of interpreting and the ordinar Thirdly Betwixt the priviledge and the exercise Privat men have the priviledge to search the Scriptures you say it should be by no other then doctors if that be true then the Lord Jesus did not direct the people who heard him to use prayer and meditation for knowing the Scriptures but to go to their rulers Scribes and Pharisees who did what they could to make the Scriptures testifie against him and all his I appeal to the conscience or reason of any if this exposition on the place can hold water Or if an indvidual act such as this being performed by another is an obedience to a command If this exposition be good then when the Lord pronounceth the man blessed who meditats in the Law day and night the sense of it must be if his Pastors do it for him it is enough Who will admit this But the one is as true as the other Secondly You contradict your self for once you say that privat men should not interpret Pro. An. 2 Scripture but take it from the mouth of the church then immediatly you exhort them to do it not superficially but with attention and we exhort to no more Thirdly You make all the people who are Pro. An. 3 privat men mad fools and Children by your coÌ„parison in whose hand the word of GOD should not be put then it must be taken from them and how agreeth this with the former exhortation What if this were told to the Kings and Queens who are Popâ—sh By the testimony of your doctors ye are all de clared unfit to rule others for mad men fools children caÌ„not govern In effect ye guide theÌ„ as such in divine matters for ye muzle and blindfold the people all this passeth under the notion of Paedagogy But sad is the case of such pupils â—f they knew what belonged to their peace Let ignorants be catechised and trained in the ways of GOD this may make them more discerning of the sense and meaning of the word of God Seneca telleth Coenant nobiscum quidam quia sunt docti alii ut sint doâ—li Some men suppe with us because they are learned others that they may be learned The testimonies of the Lord make wise the simple should they then be deprived of them Question sixth Ye agree not about the Pa. Qu. 6 rule for some cast at the Epistle of James others receive it Answer None of the pure reformed do Pro. Qu. so it was only rejected by some Lutherians in which we do not owne them Secondly The number of Scripture books is not the question but whither these mantained by all be the rule of saith Seeing all men are murable creatures and at their best state vanity Popes clash with Popes Councils with Councils Pulpits with Pulpits let any judge whither it be safest that the revealed will of God be our rule or the dictats of self contradicting men Reply You say none of these pure reformed Pa. Reply reject the Epistle of James and you disclaime the Lutherians who do so and they you for I am confident they will acknowledge none for pure reformers who take an Epistle for scripture which they hold to be none Then you say the number of Scripture books is not the question Sir you move questions as you please but hear Mr. Hooker one of your most learned Protestants lib. 1. Eccl. pol. Sect. 14. pag. 36. of these things necessar saith he the very chief is to know what books we esteem holy which is impossible for it self to teach Apply this to your only determiner of faith in your first answer And truely I think this should be the first question of all to the pure reformed according to the pure word of God as you cal them which are the books of the pure word of GOD Now if you answer these are mantained by all which you make the rule of faith how few books of Scripture shal be this rule if any at all For there be few or none whereof some have not doubted or flatly denyed Saint Augustin contra Faustum Manichaeum and lib. de mor. Eccl. cap. 1. Saith the Manichees did deny Moses and the Prophets the Jews did deny the New Testament What books of Scripture are mantained by all For by that you make the consent of all judge of canonical Scripture how then can you disclaim tradition and say immediatly after men are mutable creatures and at their best state vanity Seeing upon the consent of men ye take up your rule of faith and number of Scripture books I know other Protestants
to baptize Canon 100. ye allow it The Sacrament was administred in the primitive Church to all present and they who did not partake were appointed to remove Ite missa est exite foras qui non vultis accipere Sacramentum i. e. Go it is closed go forth ye that will not receive the Sacrament Now the words are muttered and administred before all They took with their hand and the bread was broken of old Now it is not for ye make whole wasers and put them into their mouth For fourthteen hundred years the Church appointed the Sacrament to be administred by bread and wine to the people all Christians of whatever judgement except Papists do so communicat as yet Petau de poenit pub lib. 2. sheweth that it cannot be denyed nisi ab homine insigniter supra omnem modum vel impudenti vel imperito i. e. Except by a man remarkably and above all measure either impudent or unskilful that this was the primitive practise yet the Council of Constance hoc non obstante and the Council of Trent decree the contrar The primitive Church heard nothing of the Popes universal supremacie or infallibility which now by you iâ— made Summa rei See Cyprian ep 55. â—â— Cornelius Bishop of Rome and how he stileth him fâ—ater c. and he saith that they were formerly chosen to officiat Non sine consensu plebis not without the Popes consent ep 68. Ipsa plebs habet potestatem c. Is not this far from your imperious pompous way of Monarchy how then can you so boldly averre that ye have the unanimous consent of Councills and fathers for you when indeed ye do not regard them so much as we Hear your own Cornelius Mus †See Dâ—lleus ubi supra ep Biâ—ont in ep ad Rom. cap 14. Ego ut ingenue fâ—teâ—r plus uni summo pontisici crederem in his quae fidei misteria tangunt quam mâ—lle Hieronymis Augustinis Gregoriis Credo enim scio quod summus Pontifex in his quae fidei sunt errare non potest quia auctoritas determinandi quae ad fidem spectant in Pontisice residet i. e. That I may ingenuously confesse I would give more credit to one Pope in tâ—e things which belong to the misteries of truth then to a thousand such as Augustin Jerom or Gregory For I know certainly that the Pope cannot erre in these things that belong to faith because the authority of determining matters of saith resideth in the Pope yet ignorant people are made to believe that Papists have the consent and practise of the primitive Church along with them and Melchior Canus lâ—c Theol. lib. 7. cap. 3. num 10. Sequi majores nostros per omnia in illorum vestigiis pedes nostros figere ut pueri faciunt per lusum nihil aliud est quam ingenia nostra dâ—mnare judicio nos privare nostro facultate inquirendae veritatis i. e. to follow our ancestors in all things and to â—race their footsteps and fixe in them as children use to do in play is no other thing but to condemn our own wit and to deprive our selves of our own judgement and faculty of searching the truth Salmeron in cap. 5. epist ad Rom. disp 5. asserteth quo juniores eo perspicaciores sunt doctores and citeth Exod. 23. follow not the multitude viz. of ancients This is sufficient to prove that as the Papists are jealous of Scripture so are they of the Primitive Church her consent But it is alleadged that ye have the word of God for your warrand Matth. 16. 18. Matth. 18. 18. 1. Tim. 3. 15. To this I answere that the first Text is meaned of the collective body of the Church which fall not away this is clear from the context for it is the Church builded on that confession mentioned by the Apostles and an house so builded cannot fall because it is builded on a rock Matth. 7. 25. Yet it will not follow that there be no drops in it for particular beleevers cannot totally and finally fall away but that they are infallible who can say see Iohn 10. 28. and comyare it with 1. Cor. 13. 9. Iames 3. 2. beside your own writters interpret it so see Melchior Canus lib. 5. de loc Theol. cap. 5. and Panormitan on the place The second Text Mat. 18. is to be understood of a particular Church which you grant is not infallible so Chrysostom interpreteth the place and it is further clear from the Connexion for it is the Church to which appeals should be made in prima instantia this undoubtedly is a particular Church But admitting that it is meaned of the universal church your Pope nor your Church is not it The third Text 1. Tim. 3. 15. holdeth forth no more then what is granted in the answer to the fourth question or if you please to take learned Cameron his exposition who knitteth these words with the 16. verse you may do well But what ever be the priviledges of the true Gospel Church which is the Bride of Jesus Christ Rome hath forefaulted all these and is but a leprous part of the universal Church you grant that the church of Rome is but a particular church Why plead you then for the whole priviledges of the universal Church Is not this absurd arrogance Nor doth Calvin Hospinian Luther or White speak absolutly as ye alleadge but assert that the generality for a time was leavened by Popery which is truth But what then followeth That the mysterie of iniquity did arise by degrees and over-runne all for the most we grant so did the Arrian heresie therefore was not Athauasius and such as adbered to the truth right in their way The whole world in the Apostles time did ly in wickedness 1. Iohn 5. 19. Therefore were they not Sons of truth who endeavoured a Gospel reformation Your last hold is tradition and you say we are commanded to hold them 2. Thes 2. 15. for this you cite Aug. Cyprian St. Dennis Epiphanius To this I answer we are not against Apostolick traditions nor Church history in matters of fact We make use of traditions there mentioned But for your Legends we deny that they are such and disclaim them Have you Sir learned Logick Why do you argument so a genere ad speciem affirmative Is this a good argument Est annual ergo est homo he is a living creature therefore he is a man Can this be better there were traditions delivered to the Church of Thessalonica ergo yours are these Credat Judaeus Appella Secondly If there were unwritten traditions why do you dare to writ these things which the Apostles would not writ Thirdly Will that argue the Scripture of imperfection You may as well argue the Minister writteth a book the summe of which he hath preached to people Ergo his book is imperfect You have then to prove for your end that these traditions mentioned 2. Thess 2. 15. were
Rome is it We allow Ministerial helps for expounding Scripture but do not renounce the judgement of discretion in Christians And concerning interpretation of Scripture infallibility of Pope or Council and the priviledges of the universal Church enough is formerly mentioned And these your so often repeated cavils are aboundantly refuted and what you say you did in your Reply to my sixt Answer is refuted by me in my Duply thereto For this is Crambe recocta Lastly You cite some Fathers of the first 3. ages against our negatives and would hold is in hand that they mantained them as Articles of their Creed But ye cite spurious Authours as Origens Threni or Lament Cyprian de Coena St. Andrew St. Dennis c. some of which your own writters call in question see Bellurmin de Script Eccl. pag. 83. de Euchar. lib. 2. cap. 9. Iustâ—n Martyr †In his Apology to Antonius the Emperour is brought for transubstantiation which is a manifest untruth For the words of Iustin Martyr are these 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 c. i. e. That sanctified Food wherewith our blood and flesh by conversion is nourished iâ— that which we are taught to be the Body and Blood of Christ If it be food wherewith out blood and flesh is nourished then where iâ— your Transubstantiation There it is bread in substance and the Body of Christ in signification and Sacramental relation If you please by this you may be convinced of your errour ignorance and boldness It is as untrue that Cyprian said or meaned so except in a Sacramental sense for in his 63. epist he saith Invenimus Vinum fuisse quod Sanguâ—nem suum dixit i. e. We find that it was the winâ— which he called his blood and in his 76. epist he saith quando domâ—nus appellat panem corpus suum vinum sanguinem populum nostrum quem portabut indioat adunatum i. e. When our Lord calleth the bread his Body and the wine his Blood he signifyeth that we being many are one lump of bread As for the proof of the Mass from St. Andrew I can find no such book and amongst all the Ecclesiastick writters in the first 300. years there was no mention made of him If he making for your behove could be produced as an Author it is strange how Bellarmâ—n hath forgotten to name him So I cannot take this authour off your hand But this is sure Eusebius lib. 8. Dem. Evang. in fine calleth the Bread 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the memorial of his Body the Image of his Body Then it is no sacrifice nor corporally the Body And seeing it is really relatively and symbolically such we would not have it now abused by negligence Origen saith no more hom 13. on Exod. we say no less For Purgatory you cite Tertullian in the second Age and Cyprian in the third neither of which were for it For Tertull. lib. de Patien saith Christum laedimus cum evocatos quosdam ab eo quasi miserandâ—s non aequanimiter accipimus As if they who are called hence and be with Christ were in a pityful state having obtained their desire Phil. 1. 23. and Cyprian de immortalitate saith Ad refrigerium justi vocantur ad supplicium injusti câ—piuntur velocâ—uâ— tutelâ— sidentibus persidis poena i. e. The just aâ—e called to refreshing resâ— the wicked are taken to punishment safety cometh very swiftly to Believers and punishment to unbelievers And Cyprian saith lib. adversus Demetrianum Aevi temporalis fine completo ad aeternae vel mortis vel immortalitatis hospitia divdimur Et ibidem Quando illinâ— excessum fuerit nullus jam locus poenitentiae est nullus satisfactionis â—effectus ad mortalitatem sub ipsa morte transitur i. e. When men depart out of this world there is no place thereafter for repentance no effect of satiâ—faction at death men pass over to immortality It is true they grant Probatory afflictions and the siery tryal here Some of them also deny full fruition to the Elect till the day of judgement But for Purgatory till the sixth Age it was not known then Gregory the first mantained it Dial. lib. 4. cap. 39. Neither can that prison Matth. 5 be understood of Purgatory as shal be afterwards proved I shal close this point with Iustin Murtyr resp ad Orthod quest pag. 75. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. After the departure of the Soul out of the Body immediatly there is a separation of the just from the unjust for the souls of the righteous are brought to Paradise and the souls of the wicked are taken to hell Then you prove Prayer to the dead from Clemens epist 1. de Sancto Petro and Tertul. de cor mil. I shal not insist on that Apocryphal Epistle but for Tertullian he and others prayed for a joyful Resurrection to them And hence are some Panegyricks concerning them which were rather to profit themselves then the party deceased as Augustin telleth us in Enchir ad Laurentium they were Consolationes vivorum You offer also to make out by St. Dennis that they in primo primitiva Ecclesia prayed to Saints and Angels As for the first citation to you who professe to believe the Scriptures of GOD and do yet stumble weak ones with thornie questions concerning their authority it will not be unexpedient for me who cannot find such a writter in the second Centurie for you cannot mean Dionysius the Areopagit who lived in the 1. Centurie nor Dionysius Alexandrinus who lived in the 3. Centurie To enquire I say of you whither was there such a Saint And if that be made out whither did he writ any book at all And if so if this be the book which you call his I will not take the Popes word for it nor yours seeing both Hierom and Bellarmin leave him out of their history When these questions are answered I shal prepare an answer for his testimony But it is more strange that you cite Origen who writting against the Pagan Celsus in this point of prayer to Saints and Angels lib. 8. pag. 432. 433. saith expresly to whom we give the first fruits to him we send our prayers to the great high Priest Jesus the Son of GOD who is entered into Heaven This is like your testimonie from Dudithius if that be Origen you cite for Origens Threni or Liment to be spurious some judicious do averre as Erasmus so Barronius tom 2. ad annum 253. here is a retractation Your own Salmeron telleth us to more purpose the reason why in the primitive times there was no invocation of Saints and Angels Quia occasio daretur gentibus put andi sibi exhibitos multos Deos pro multitudine divorum disp 8. iâ— 1. Tom. 2. As for the sign of the Cross it is true Tertullian is for it in these places named and it was in use amongst Christians when they had to do with Pagans and some who are not of your communion make use of it
year and that not without blood to typifie Jesus Christ he spoke also in the vulgar language of the Nation And was not all their administrations in Hebrew their mother tongue How then can you say that any of their worship was in an unknown tongue As for that you adde of the 13. verse and verse 16. it is so dark nonsense â—hat to me now ye speak in an unknown tongue and deserves no answer He desireth them to speak with tongues and interpret them to the unlearned for the use of edifying that all might say Amen What can be more clear against you At last you come off this as formerly and yeeld the cause and say that the liturgie of the Catholick Church is interpreted to every one and the greatest part of the publick prayers translated to the people and set down in their own prayer books And this place of Scripture maketh not against us but Ministers who with their extemporarie prayers speak non sense which hath made one of your own Poets say fools do not understand us nor wise men you I am glad to hear that this point which was deryed at the Council of Trent is now granted and if it be so why jangled you so much formerly But I find it is not so for you are taught to equivocat And what your greatest part meaneth is unknown here it is certain your Masses Aves c. are yet muttered and worded in Latine ye are ashamed to owne it not without reâ—son For your reflection on our worship we are for reasonable service and lively work to a living GOD not for none-sense and would to the Lord your worship were as pure as ours is this day many souls might be edified thereby Thirdly Invocation of Saints and Angels is will worship Col. 2. 23. How can we call Inst. 3. on him in whom we do not believe Rom. 10. 14. or lay stress of belief on a creature Beside they know not what we say Abraham is ignorant of us and Israel acknowledgeth us not Isaiah 63. 16. To this your return is that I wrest the Papists Reply scripture Col. 3. which speâ—keth only of the duty of Masters and Servants and not one word against the worship of Saints or Angels And that place Rom. 10. 14. is concerning prayer to GOD only not about prayer to Saints or Angels Because we will supplicat men on earth in whom we do not believe And the text Isaiah 63. 16. cited by you is meaned of the knowledge of approbation as Hierom interpreteth the place According to which it will rather follow that tâ—ey did know what passed here below and disowned a degenerated multitude Answer I confess if I had cited that place which you mention upon this subject I had not only wrested but martyred Scripture Prote ∣ stants Duply You may believe it never entered into my mind to do so The place I cited was the 2. chapter of the Collâ—ssians verse 23. where worshipping of Angels is termed will worship And what can you say to that I would suspect that you purposely have omitted this scripture yet this might as easily be refuted by you as 1. Cor. 14. For he who said the one said also the other The 10. Rom. 14. you labour to interpret thus that it is meaned of prayer to GOD not of calling on men or Angels because we will call on men on earth in whom we do not believe The words are general and the interrogative is equivalent to a negative None can call on them in whom they do not believe You say we call on men on earth What do we pray to men The calling here is a part of religious worship which cannot be given to the greatest Potentat in the World Then you tell that the 63 of Isaiah is meaned of a knowledge of approbation like that depart from me I know you not id est I approve you not so Hierom expâ—undeth the â—ext and accâ—rding to this expâ—sition it wâ—ll rather follow that they did know wâ—â—t passed â—ere below and disowned a degenerated 〈◊〉 I â—nswere that exposition of Is â—â— is contraâ—e to the strâ—â—â—o Interpreters Yet to the connexion of the words For it is a prayer put up to God and the 〈…〉 to be this Thou O Lord knowest how â—o helpe us although Abraham knoweth noâ— what is become of us So it is an opposition between divine knowledge and that of Abraham Doubtless thou art our father c. But supposing Hieromâ— interpretation to be true it will not follow that they knew what was done on earth but only this that if Israel were on earth they were so 〈◊〉 degenerated that he would not know â—is posteritie I 'le close this with the testimony of your own Eckius in his Enchir. ch 15. there is no warrand for invocation of Sâ—ints â—r Aâ—gels from the scripture and that the Apostieâ— either by word or writ left any thing behind them to be done c. He might have said more there be warrand for the contrar Fourthly Your worshipping of Imâ—ges is Inst. 4 an express breach of the second Command which forbiddeth any sort of worship to any Image in Heaven or in Earth Ex. 20. 4. And ye Papists being conscious of your guilt herein have thievously stoln out the second Command and divided the tenth into two branches witness Bellarmins Catechism and your other writters To this you answer That the division of the Commands is not in scripture so we cannot know the second or third How then standing Papists Reply by scripture your only determiner shal we judge of tâ—is And if you come to authority or reason I appeal to your self whither it be Idolatrie to worship Images Seeing all Idolatrie is against the first Command It being the worship of a creatâ—re in the place of GOD. Therefore Bellarmin and others take what ye call the second Command for a further explanation of the first and so set down but the substantial words Thou shalt have no oâ—her Gods but me Yet take not the rest out of the Bible which is there set down at length But Protestanâ—s take away all the Commandments saying it is impossible to keep them For there is no Command where there is no obligation of keeping aâ—d Nemo â—enetur ad impossibile Then reason mâ—keth for dividing the tenth Commandment in two For as theft and adulterie are forbidden by two Commands so the inward desire of the heart after a mans wife and goods should likewise in reason be rather forbidden by two Commandments then Idolatrie alone by two But if making of Images kneeling before them or worshippâ—ng them not as Gods but as things which keep us in mind of GOD and his Saints as the seventh general Council saith as the holie boâ—ks Why did GOD make man to his own Image and obliedge us to honour him as his Image Why did he put two Cherubs on the Aâ—k before which the Jews kneeled Why commanded he the Jews to adore the same Ark