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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	people_n	read_v	word_n	2,947	5	4.1038	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A44501	The Quakers proved deceivers and such as people ought not to listen to, or follow, but to account accursed, in the management of a charge formerly given out against them to that effect, by J. Horne, preacher of the gospel at South-Lin in Norfolke. Which charge was managed and made good by him against George Whitehead, in the chancel of South-Lin, before some hundreds of people, Jan. 13. 1659. to the great baffling of the said George Whitehead and his party, through the merciful and gracious hand of the Lord appearing for his truth and servants therein, as is known to, and witnessed by the generality of the audience of understanding. Published as a warning to all to beware of the said people called Quakers, and their erroneous principles herein also in part discovered.	Horn, John, 1614-1676.	1660 (1660)	Wing H2807; ESTC R221604	29,025	16

have we then to hope or look for G. W. denying this I. H. read their words out of their Book against him and T. M. their words are thus as for that coming of Christ spoken of in 1 Thess ●4 15 which these men would blindly put a sat off to a coming of Christ in a Body of flesh and bones the Apostle says wee that live and remaine tell the coming of the Lord. So that coming of Christ the Saints that were ●hen a live remained unto it Judge good people is Christ yet come are the dead bodies of the Saints raised and the living changed and all caught up together in the aire to meete him If those men be not such as we are to avoid and account accursed who be G. W. Thou readest out of a book and yet will not give w●y I should read out of thy Book M. H Here is not the same reason He ●s to prove you deceivers and such as are to be accounted accursed or to that purpose and therfore may produce Testimonies out of your books against you but you are not to prove against him but to defend your self J H What host thou to say to this argument G.W. I meant is not of that resurrection of the dead thou speakest of or to that purpose J H. Thou speakest of that coming of Christ mentioned in that Scripture and that Scripture speaks of Christ descending from Heaven to raise the dead in him I shall read it to you 1 Thess 4.13 14 I would not have you ignorant Brethren concerning them that sleept It s evident he speaks of those that sleepe in the bodyly death as it s sayd of St●phen that when he had said those words he fell a sleepe He would not have Beleivers mourne as those without hope concer●ing them For if we beleive sayth he that Jesus died and rose again even so then also that sleepe in Jesus will God bring with him for this we say unto you by the word of the Lord that we which are alive that is those of us of our body or society accounting beleivers of all ages but as one body and remain● to the coming of the Lord shall not revent th● that are a sleepe For the Lord himself shall dese●nd from heaven with a shout and with the vo●ce o● th● Archangel and with the Trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first and we which ●e a live and remaine shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meete the Lord in the ai●e and so shall we ever be with the Lord. What more plaine th●n that he speaks of the co●ng of Christ to raise the dead those that sleepe 〈◊〉 the grave and to change ●e living beleivers 〈◊〉 Now I appeal to you all whither those things were done in the time of those beleiv● before they dyed and if so what have we to ●ope for G. W. There is a twofold sleeping spoken o● there is a sleeping spi●itually or to that purpose such as is spoken of in the next Chapter Let us not sl●epe as do others but let us watch and be ●ober for they that sleepe sleepe in the ●ght and there i● a sleeping such as St●phen is said to fall a ●eepe in at death Now the Apo● there sp●a● of the first J. H. Nay he speak of the sleeped 〈◊〉 death the dead in Christ shall rise first G. W. Is it not sayd the howe is coming and no ●s that the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God and th●y that hear shall live John 5.25 J. H. Had not the Apostles and beleive●s heard that voice of 〈◊〉 Son of God raising them from death in sin before the Apostle wrote this or 〈◊〉 they that yet to looke for that in John speaks of men dead in sin and this of the dead in Christ G. W. Is it not sayd of those Th●ssalonian tha● they turned from dumb Idolls to serve the living God and to wayte for his Son from 〈◊〉 could they waite for a thing so far off was it not the revelation of Christ to their Soules or to su●h purpose was his Answer J. H. Had not those Th●ssalen●s a●evelation of christ to their Soules as to the knowledge of him before they turned from their dumb Idols to serve the living God G. W. Nay they had not the revelation of Christ then before they turned from dumb Idols but they waited for it J. H. What was it turned them to God then was not that a frutie of the Gosple coming to them and doth nor the Gospel reveale Christ G. W. Yea there is a measure of the knowledg of Christ which if they be obedient they shall have more as they that obtained like precious Faith with the Apostles that had the sure word of prophesy as a light shining in a dark place did well to take heed to it tell the day dawned and the day Starr arose in the heart when that dawned and arose that was the coming of the day of the Lord. to such purpose was his answer but with more circumstances J. H. Had not the beleivers and cheifly the Apostles beare that further measure of light and revelation of Christ when they thus wrote or what is that to the purpose of this coming spoken in the Text is that with the voice of the Archang●l and the Trump of God and the dead in Christ all raised then and those a sleepe changed that is to one now and to another then and those that are in a living frame may prevent those that are in a sleepy posture such as the Apostle warns us not to be in Therfore that 's nothing to the purpose the Thessalonians had something of that spiritual revelation of Christ as the c●●se of their turning 〈…〉 to serve the living God G. W. There George 〈◊〉 r●n into a long circuling 〈…〉 a●ing the same over and over againe the s●m● of which so f●r as I could perceive was 〈…〉 d●●●●●ent measures of the revelation of the knowledge of Christ and that they that 〈◊〉 the least should have more to the perfect day J. H. Hears nothing but the same things over and over But did the Apostles receive the full revelation of Christ in the time of their live G. W. You ask whither 〈…〉 all the glory they should have before death Or whither they should have no more glory after death T. M. Nay we ask about th● glorious coming of Christ in which the dead shall be raised had they that before they dyed is there no other coming of Christ in glory for them and us to see then what they had or see while they lived Here he wrangled a little about the question and answered nothing to purpose but that they had greater measure before they died but as if they might have more glory after J. H. It s evident that the Apostle Paul did not remaine to that coming of the Lord there spoken of that I shall prove G. W. How do you prove

not answering any thing to the purpose divers called to him to answer to the business or else to own himself a Deceiver or to that purpose T. M. Answer then whether Paul was born then of God or believed Jesus to be Christ or to that purpose G. W. You are two to one T. M. We speak both but one thing we ask the same thing G. W. I came not here to satisfie unreasonable men Paul spake at a Jew to the Ju● J. H. Then he spake there false it seems of himself wilt thou say so He b●●ng p●zled about it J. H. said to him Ah George where is thy vaunting Language now as if thou couldst tread down all before thee and thy setting up thy self above God G. W. Thou be●●est me Did I set up my self above God See people how 〈…〉 or to that purpose J. H. Didst thou not set up thy self above God when thou didst reproach me by my G●d as if he would or could not carry me forth against thee He said If thy God will c●●ry thee forth by way of reproach Also I was informed that at Godney they said They would make us ashamed of our God Now if God be the true God as he is what but a setting up themselves above God was this let all judg J. H. Canst thou deny that Paul was born of God when an Apostle or that he believed that Jesus was the Christ G. W. Paul spake to the state of others when he said O wretched man that I am and groaned and waited for the Redemption of the body J. H. Did Paul then witness or experiment the Redemption of his Body from corruption before he dyed G. W. Yea he did witness it T. M. Witness it But Had he it was his body redeemed from corruption before he dyed G. W. Yea he had the Redemption of his body before he dyed J. H. Is not the body sown in corruption when it dyes It is sown in corruption it is raised in incorruption G. W. Yea but is not sin corruption J. H. How is it redeemed from corruption before it dye when it is sown in corruption when it dyes G. W. Corruption is sin Pauls body was redeemed from the Law of sin and Death J. H. But is all corruption sin There is a corruption of mortality th●t came in by sin G. W. All corruption is sin or came in by sin and take away the cause and the effect ceases Now we shall prove that he was made free from sin T. M. Answer plainly and prove it from the Scripture That the Redemption of the body that Paul waited for he had it before he dyed For you bring nothing for it ●et but your corrupt Logick in which one as weak as my self might discover its ●alsness G. W. Did I use any Logick what Logick T. M. Where there is freed me from the cause the effect ceases Now that Paul had freedome from sin the cause of corruption before he dyed is that you w●nt about to prove and so to get from the Question J. H. Yea that is Logicall but will not alwayes hold the effect may last when the cause is goue as a house may stand when he that built it is dead but is not that corruption which is in death in which the body corrupteth and did not Paul wait for the Redemption of his body from that G. W. Yea that death that came in by sin but what death was that that cameth by sin he said he asked the Question before I asked what follovvs though I do not remember that he did I. H. What Death came not in by sin G. W. What death came in by sin I. H. I asked thee vvhat death came not in by it G. W. I ask thee a question and thou ansvverest me by asking me an●ther Ansvver my Question I first asked thee I. H. I did not hear that thouaskedst that Question first but thou saidst That death that came in by sin and I asked thee what death came not in by sin G. W. Nay I asked thee first What Death came in by sin and thou refusest to ansvver my Question Is this fair I. H. pe●ceiving he sought occasion to vvinde out from the business in hand by starting another Question if he did first ask it or whensoever he started it replyed I remember not that thou didst ask me that first but however 't is not my business now to answer thy questions that may lead us from the matter in hand My business is now to prove my charge against thee if thou wilt own that that is done I will answer thee thy question G.W. pulling out a book writ by J.H. and T.M. about their former Dispute with him and S.F. would fain have diverted to it and said He would prove J.H. had there bely'd him J.H. Thou hast answered that Book in print the people may see what thou sayst against us there and we shall give it an answer God willing ere long what have we to do with hearing thee read in that book now G.W. I will prove here that J.H. hath here contradicted himself or to that purpose and would fain have been reading J.H. If thou wilt grant I have proved my charg we will hear thee read but if not let me do what I come about Answer me and prove that Paul had the Redemption of his body there spoken of before he dyed G.W. urging yet to read the people told him That was to go from his business and bid him answer to what he was charged with or say the Charg was proved J.H. Did Paul prove the Redemption of his body before his decease for which he waited as he sayes Rom. 8.23 G.W. Yea he did before his decease J.H. Prove that G.W. In Rom 8.2 He sayes The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the Law of sin and death And in another place I can do nothing against the truth but for it J.H. What be these to the purpose Paul said He was made f●ee from the law of sin and death before he said He waited for the adoption the redemption of the body For he sayes that in Rom. 8.2 and yet speaks of waiting for the Redemption of his body after that in ver 23. Therefore what he sayes about his being free from the Law of sin and death could not be the redemption of h●s body that he there mentions for why should he wait for that yet if he before had it did he wait for what he had already Here G.W. was wholly driven from that proof so as we heard no more of it and to help himself betook him to the other G.W. But he sayes in the other place he could do nothing against the truth but for the truth J.H. Could he then do something against the truth when he said He waited for the Redemption of the body The which also T.M. asked G.W. Yea That which waited for the Redemption could for he cryed out Oh wretched man

it J. H. Because he diad and is dead wheras had he remained to that coming of the Lord he should only have bin changed and caught up into the aire I appeale to all the people whither my charge be not herein made good against thee G. W. Nay it is not J. H. Thou nor I must not be judges in our own causes let the people judge G. W. Nay that of God in the people must be judge J. H. I appeale to that of God in them all whither the coming of Christ there spoken of be over and past while the Apostles lived are the dead in Christ raised the living changed all together caught up into the aire to meete the Lord c G. W. Would needs read something out of J.H. book being not able to make good his saying which J. H. charged as contrary to the Apostles Doctrine about the coming of Christ And began to read something of John Horn's granting and bewayling the too much of that of the Prophet Isaiah 56.10 was too true of to many Ministers of England as that his watch-men are blind they are dumb doggs which he going about to turne upon I. H. I. H. Replyeds Nay George thou dost not finde us dumb doggs we are made able blessed be God to worry thee thou seest and put thee to the worst G. W. He is in the nature of a dog it seemes then wheras Christ sent not out his Apostles a● dogs the Lyonis said vorare of which the word worry comes but as lambs amongst wolves I. H. But the Lamb of God is a Lyon too George and maks Israel a Lyon too as in Gen 49 9. as a Lyon amongst the beasts of the Forrest as Mica 5.8 9 and it s in his strength and power that we are inabled to teare and worry thee for all thy great brags I. H. And some others of his Friends laughing at the Quakers and at G. W. to see some of his confusion in some passage G. W. Thou art in Ishmaels nature or we may see Ishmael in you or to such purpose I. H. Nay 't is Isaac's nature Isaac had his name of laughter and it is said the righteous shall see them and laugh them to scorne And we rejoice to see the Lord strengthen us to baffle you and to make manifest your folly c. G. W. Art thou righteous then I. H. Why not compleatly righteous in Christ though in my self I acknowledg sin G. W. See how he contradicts himself 〈◊〉 be compleat in Christ and yet have sin in him I. H. Though that be out of our way and from the businesse in hand yet I shall prove that those two will stand together The Apostle says Coloss 2.10 In him yee are compleat and yet in the same Epistle to the same people he says Chap 3.5 Mortifie these therfore your members that be upon Earth fornication uncleannesse c. If these were not in them how could they be called their members upon Earth and why should they be bid to mortifie them if they had no life in them too G. W. The Apostle sayes of those that were compleat in Christ In whome also yee are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands the putting off the the body of the sins of the flesh I. H. He doth so and yet bids them Chap. 3.8 Put of all those things still anger wrath malice c. They had put them off as to their purpose and bent of heart and yet had need to put them off in their dayly practic and conversation G. W. The Apostles writing to the Churches writ to diverse States Some of them were compleat in Christ and others were not but had their members to mortifie c. I. H. The Apostle makes no such distinction he says not some of you are compleat in Christ but says it without limitation to some in him yee are compleat and so he gives the other counsell to all of them yea he gives it upon supposition of their being raised with Christ and are not those that risen with Christ compleat in Christ Col. 3.1 5. what do you think that the Apostle writ one Chapter to one part of the people and another Chapter to another After this returning to the businesse of Christs coming to raise the dead being past before the Apostles dyed and nothing further being answered to it but that Paul spake of a spiritual coming to mens spirits we slid upon that of 1 Kings 8 46. I known how that there is no man that sinneth not G. W. Wilt thou affirme that of all men living now I. H. Nay first wilt thou grant it of all men living let us agree first of what was then and then come to the times now G. W. I say no man that was in that State sinned I. H. The word are there is no man that sinneth not There is no mention of any State in some in which all sinned distinct from some other state in which some men firmed not G. W. It is said if they sin for there is no man that sinneth not I. H. It is absolutely said a● the reason why Israel might be supposed to sin that there 's no man that sinneth not I M. It is not said if they sin then thereis no man that sins not but for there 's no man that sinneth not G. W. There 's no man in that State I. H. There 's no limitation to any state but there is no man that sinneth not Ah George dost thou go up and down prea●ing to men to look to the light and dost thou despute and plead against the light in thee dost thou not see the Scripture is against thee G. W. There is no man in 〈…〉 that sinneth not I H. Is there any man in 〈…〉 that is not a man if he be a man he sinneth for there is no man that sinneth not G. W. All in that state sin But 〈◊〉 thou say there is no man now that sinneth not I. H. 〈…〉 is no into living 〈…〉 not or hath not sin in him now Jesus Christ excepted G. W. then there is a 〈…〉 sinneth not Then it s not true of all men I. H. Jesus Christ is 〈◊〉 God with us God-man and so more then a man T. M. 〈…〉 Christ is included in the 〈…〉 sinned against If they sin against thee He is that one and only man that good because he is God and therfore he must needs be excepted To 〈…〉 was the discourse between I. H. and G. W. We have here given the substance and scope if not also the very 〈…〉 the Answers and the very words and forme so much as could be remembred After which the Church 〈…〉 M. H. with other Friends seeing I. H. much spent with speaking so long and so much and fearing he might 〈…〉 therin desired him to give the people some short exhortation and conclude Accordingly I. H. minded the people of what had hin proved against them and warned the people to take heed of