corrupt and counterfeit and with this you were put to silence and had not to answere only that you might probablie in shew conuince Luther of blasphemie you demaunded of our men their iudgment of this Epistle They cleerly answered that they accounted this Epistle of S. Iames as all other the Epistles and bookes of the new Testament to be Canonicall Affirming that all our Churches were of the same iudgement And from this you would conclude that Luther therefore was blasphemous because he had written that some probablie called the authoritie of this Epistle into question To this our men replied the consequence was naught from our reuerent opinion of this Epistle to inferre that whosoeuer made any question of it did blaspheme And heere you plainely yeelded For when you boasted of two other reasons that you had you produced none at all After this you came to the old Testament where you accuse vs to haue raced many bookes out of the true Canon The testimonie of Antiquitie was laid before you whence it was cleere that those bookes were not Canonicall Heere you preferred the late Councels and Fathers before the auncient which may not be permitted you And you set Austine in opposition against Hierom when it had been fitter you would haue reconciled them Augustine he affirmes these bookes to be Canonicall Hierome denies them yea expresly plainly and euidently For Augustine our men answered that he vsed the word Canonicall doubtfully or in diuers signification And that they shewed plainely out of Augustines owne words and Cardinall Caietans Augustine you shifted off and Caietan you audaciously reproached affirming that the Cardinall lost all his grace and elegancie when he once began to Comment vpon the Scriptures At length Campian you were forced euen in Gratian not without blushing to acknowledge this ambiguity of the word And whereas you could not be ignorant of auncient records it was a wonder to our men to see you write that we had of a sudden raced out these bookes Surely this word escaped you very vnlearnedly and inconsideratly we haue store both of auncient witnesses and of others succeeding them who will and can free vs from such imputation of Noueltie To passe by Origen and Eusebius Cyprian or whosoeuer he was that writ the exposition of the Creed we find among his workes after he had reckoned vp all the Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament he addeth These are those bookes which the Fathers haue included in the Canon Cyprian in expos Symbo where they would that all the grounds of our faith should haue their foundation Yet we must know that there are other bookes which were not called of our predecessors Canonicall but Ecclesiasticall as the booke of Wisedome said to be Salomons and another booke of Wisdome said to be Syrackes Of the same rancke is the little booke of Toby and Iudith and the bookes of the Machabies To him I will adde another later in time and yet he writ 400. yeeres agoe Hugo de sancto victore a very learned man and famous in his time If you haue not read what he hath written in this kind reade it if you haue read it remember it with me after he had reckoned vp by name the Canonicall bookes of the old Testament in the end he thus writeth There are besides in the old Testament Hugo de Sanct. victore in prologo pomi lib. de Sacram. cap. 7. certeine other bookes which indeed we reade but are not written in the corpes of the text or in the authentike Canon As the booke of Toby and Iudith and Machabees and the booke called the Wisdome of Salomon and Ecclesiasticus I omit others and many which I could produce in this kind and that of all ages out of which the constant iudgement of the Church touching these bookes may be discerned Which being so doth it become you Campian to be so iniurious vnto vs so boldly to affirme that we haue latelie crossed out those bookes out of the Canon or which of vs wil be afraid of you triffling so childishly please not your self too much with your wit neither abuse the gifts and parts which you haue gotten by nature or industry to defend falshood and to vphold the kingdome of Antichrist Lay your hand vpon your hart and know your selfe well and cease from that arrogancie with which your vaine sect hath puffed you vp leaue off your lying shake off that Iesuiticall light be hauiour of yours And as Augustine perswaded Hierome take to you the grauitie of a Christian and make recantation For it is no dishonor to recant an error but to persist in it But let vs againe come to your preface There remaineth only for me say you an account to be giuen of my fact and euidently to shew and as it were with the finger to point at those Chapters and fountaines which breed in me such confidence But we Campian can see no cause at all why you should promise so great things of your self or so trust in those fountaines which are as vaine as may be and light as water for these your ten heads which haue made you so headie and bould are so many guilded lies vpon which if you relie your case is farre more lamentable then of those Iewes whom the Prophet Ieremie reproues Trust not in lying words Jer. 7.4 saying The Temple of the Lord The Temple of the Lord. And what is your Euensong but this or that which is farre more foolish and desperate But you say You are able enough to proue that this Sunne shineth now at midday Your sufficiencie all men may see You are as wel able Campian to turne the day into night and to pull the Sunne out of the heauens as defend these heads Those vnusuall boastings and promises so vsuall with you argue a mind proud and swelling with arrogancie and not indued with sound knowledge and learning The emptier the vessels be the lowder they sound VVhat insolencie I pray you made you adde that of Roscius Supposition as if the things you defend were as manifestly true as it is impossible any man should run 700. miles in two daies I am ashamed Campian to see how vaine you be and full of boasting and arrogancy What dare you vndertake to conuince all the most famous and excellent Churches of the world of error as directly and plainly as it is impossible for a man to walke 700. miles in two daies If Campian you can compasse the world in three daies if you can outgoe the Sun if touch the heauens with your fingers if number the starres if drinke vp the sea you may demonstrate the truth of your cause to which you are so deuoted But if those things surpasse your strength then shall you neuer make this good no though the whole knot of Iesuits ioyne with you Now whereas you intreate vs to haue a care of our soules health we take in good part your desire and endeuour of our saluation And indeed
refuse life or death at our owne pleasure I am not so bound by the authoritie of this booke and testimonie but that I may appeale from his Apochryphall sentence to the tried Oracles of God Now for your booke of the z DVR No Church euer reiected the booke of the Macchabees WHIT. pag. 83. The Church of the Iewes did wholy and the Church of the Christians as I haue shewed before Yea Gregory the great who was Bishop of Rome in Iob. lib. 17. Cap. 16. denies them to be in the Canon And the Fathers though they cite them as he did yet so accounted them for no better DVR Augustine placeth them in the Canon WHIT. pag. 83. Yet Gregory vvho liued 200. yeeres after him denies them to be Canonicall besides Augustine so calleth them because the Church of Christians read them and did not reiect them so as the Ievves did August de ciuitat Deâ— lib. 18. cap. 36. August cont Gauden lib. 2. cap. 23. further Duraeus confesseth that they were neither written by a Prophet nor confirmed by a Prophet then certeine it is they are not in the Canon DVR Christians must be ruled by the iudgment of the Catholike Church WHIT. pag. 85. The Catholike Church cannot make those bookes which are not Canonicall to be Canonicall besides I haue shewed that the Catholike Church doth reiect them Macchabees I make far lesse account of it which Hierome Epiphanius Athanasius Cyprian haue hissed out and the Leodicene Councel hath reiected Moreouer that which is therein spoken of the sacrifice offered vp for the sinnes of the dead is meerely matter of supposall and forced into the text for neither in Iosephus is any such thing to be found in the Greeke neither in Iosephus the sonne of Gerion who yet writ the self-same history in Hebrew is there any mention of any such sacrifice neither had the a DVR The Iews Machzor sheweth that they do pray and offer sacrifice for the dead WHIT. pag. 85. I much â—egard not what the Ievves do now I affirmed that the old Ievves had neither precept nor practise for it Iewes either by precept or practise any such custome to offer sacrifice and prayers for the dead Lastly in the Greeke copy there is that inuersion and disordered placing of the words that you can hardly make any true sense or any whole sentence hang together View the place in the Greeke text and if you can fitly translate it so that all things may hang well together I will yeeld you are a better Grecian then I tooke you for Shall I be tied then by the authority and force of this booke place or sentence to offer with you prayers and oblations for the dead you are too too childish Campian to thinke such things can incline the Students of our Vniuersities to like your side other manner of matter must you bring and of more force if you will gaine our fauourable audience and good conceite for these things long agoe we haue distasted and spit out but who euer said your selfe excepted that this place of the Macchabees doth proue and confirme inuocation of Saints It is one thing to offer sacrifice for the dead and another thing to say that the Saints departed make intercession for vs. As for Iudas b DVR Many things were declared to the Prophets by dreames WHIT. pag. 87. Must I therefore beleeue euery dreame written in the Apochrypha bookes as diuine oracles neither did that dreame make the Macchabees pray to Onia or Jeremie but to the Lord only 2. Mac. 15.21 DVR The Ievves thought that Christ had praied to Eliah vvhen Matth. 27.47 he said Eli Eli Lamb. c. therefore praying to Saints vvas familiar and common vvith them WHIT. pag 87. It is plaine that the Iewes said this only to deriâ—e Christ whom they thought God had forsaken and therefore he fled to Eliah for helpe dreame touching Onia of which we read 2. Macchab. 15. I passe it ouer as a dreame but the matter is not great whether you vnderstand the intercession of the dead or oblations for the dead both is yours and both most false And heere againe you cry out with great vehemency Is it true indeed is there such frowardnes is there such presumption among men heere is neither the one nor the other Campianâ— we haue done nothing frowardly nothing presumptuously I wonder at your frowardnes and presumption that those bookes which God disclaimes as none of his which reuerend antiquitie hath put out of the Canon yet you in your horrible detestable frowardnes presuÌ„ption will bring into the Canon whether God wil or no the holy Fathers denying them the bookes themselues disclaiming it The Caluinists say you haue cut off from the body of the old Testament These are Baâ—uch Tobâ—as Iudâ—th Suâ—â—ent a. Ecâ—â—ejiasâ—icus tâ—â—o Macchabees Hâ—â—ron prae fâ—t in Ier. seauen whole bookes Why you shamelesse Frier did not Hierome a thousand yeeres before Caluin was borne race them out Why then slippe you ouer Hierome and quarrell with Caluin only when they are both in one predicament Heare yet againe what Hierome saith Whatsoeuer is besides these bookes is to be accounted Apocrypha but these seauen bookes which you reckon vp and calumniously auouch that we haue raced them out are besides those Hierome makes mention of they are then to be accounted Apochrypha For most of these we haue sufficiently answered For Baruch Hierome saith We neither reade it nor find it in the Hebrew all the other he casteth out of the Canon Hieron ad Domnion Rogatian and writeth freely Those bookes which are not to be found in the Hebrew neither are any of the 24. are tobe reiected of those who are of ripe yeeres and knowledge But you Iesuits are alway Children as the Egyptian Priest answered Solon touching the Grecians I wonder why you say neuer a word touching the third and fourth booke of Esdra it may be you are ashamed of them being bookes as Hierome writeth full of dotages yet your Church hath had them in great account and the Fathers often times haue alledged testimonies out of them why do you Campian suddeinly dash these bookes out of the Canon If you iudge they must be kept in the Canon why doe you not taxe the Caluinists who as all men know haue cut them out of the old Testament Why when you number vp all those sacred bookes cut out of the Canon by the Caluinists omit you these altogether Or if these be Apocrypha why should we deeme the rest to be Canonicall I am not a little desirous to know what is your iudgement of these bookes but you say further Epist. Iacob Ep ad Heb. Epist. Juda. Epist. 2. Pet. Epist. 2. 3. Ioan. The Lutherans haue cut off Saint Iames Epistle and for spite of it fiue others which somewhere else also were once called in question That these were once and elsewhere in question you cannot deny The
light and euidence of the storie hath wrung this from you But tel vs who made question of them Did heretikes onely Then account Eusebius Hierome amongst heretikes who haue reported to vs their owne iudgement of these Epistles with the iudgement of the Church Can you prooue that they were accounted heretikes in the first and pure ages of the Church who tooke out of the Canon these Epistles For the Epistle of Saint Iames I haue answered sufficiently we neither reiect that nor any of the other Epistles which you falsely accuse the Lutherans to haue cut out this is no fauit of ours whom you knowe to be farre from Lutheranisme quarrell then with them as for vs we neuer cunningly shifted off the testimonies and allegations of those Epistles Can you in equitie require any more of vs At length then forbeare to vpbraide vs with I knowe not what desperation frowardnes and presumption wee willingly admit receiue and allow of your owne bookes which your selfe make vse of in disputation to their iudgment will we stand if you can conuince vs by these you winne the field That which you adde of the booke of Ester and of almost three whole chapters of Daniel is nothing but cauilling The booke of Ester we account Canonicall as much as by Gods authoritie is written in b DVR As if the Hebrevv tongue were the rule of the Canon and of diuine authority WHIT. pag. 90. No booke is a part of the new Testament which is vvritten in Latin yet is not Greeke the rule of the Canon Hebrew but those fragments which commonly are annexed to that holy history of Ester we cannot so highly account of as for those three chapters they are none of Daniels of which read if you please c DVR Hicrome to Ruffinus seemeth to approue those three chapters of Daniel WHIT. pag. 92. Erasmus noted that Hierome delt craftely hauing in his preface shevved he thought othervvise Hieromes preface vpon Daniel And there you shall find that not the Anabaptists only but the auncient Iewes haue reiected and derided them But Campian why doe you trifle thus were you wont to build much vpon the authority of those bookes did you in these lay the foundations of your faith why then do you seeke to make vs odious by these bookes which if they were neuer so Canonical would further your cause neuer a whit the more Now you much commend Augustines modestie VVho August de doctrin Christ. lib. 2. cap. 8. say you hath made a Catalogue of the bookes of holy Scripture farre better then either the Iewes or Sectaries I could wish you Iesuits had a little more modestie that ye might be more like Augustine for all men speake and cry out of your male pertnes and insolency But Augustine counted those bookes Canouicall which we do not true I deny it not but what of that is not Augustine opposite to Hierome for Hierome expressely denies those bookes to be nuÌ„bred in the Canon And Augustine setting downe the whole Canon of the Scripture doth annex these to it It seemeth there is a great difference in their iudgements for those which Hierome denies Augustine affirmeth to be Canonicall both famous men and such as haue deserued well of the Church of God how then may we satisfie Augustine whom Campian obiecteth vnto vs No otherwise then as the truth is The termes of Apochrypha and Canonicall Hierome vseth in one sense and Augustine in another Hierome accounted all these bookes Apochrypha which were not written in Hebrew Augustine though in deed and in truth he differed not yet he gaue this name especially to those bookes which were not fraught with fables and lies such as those times afforded very many For so he writeth lib. 15. cap. 23. de ciuit Dei Though there be some truth found in the Apochrypha bookes yet they haue no Canonicall authoritie there being so many lies in them Therefore he names in the Canon the booke of Iudith and Toby and Ecclesiasticus other of that sort because there was more truth and sinceritie in them then in those common and diuulged fables Therefore Augustine vseth the terme of Canonicall Scripture more largely then Hierome and of Apochrypha more strictly vnlesse happily we will suppose that of set purpose Augustine would differ from Hierome in a thing of that moment Besides the Romish Cardinal Caietan in fine comenta in histor veter Testameuti of whom we spake before writeth that certeine Councels with Augustine accounted these bookes Canonicall because they were rules for manners not for faith and doctrine And what reason Augustine had to plead for the booke of Wisdome De predest Sanct. c. 24. least it should be turned out of the Canon let him looke to it himselfe this very booke Hierom whom you Iesuits vsually preferre before Augustine hath by name excluded and from the selfe-same place where Augustine confirmeth the authority of this booke euery man may gather that it was not commonly receiued in the Canon for when Augustine cited a testimony out of that booke He was taken away Wisd 4.11 least wickednes should alter his vnderstanding many of the brethren who were present cried out It was not alledged out of a Canonicall booke d DVR But you reuiue not Augustines ansvvere and hovv he obiected against them the consent of all Bishops faithfâ—ll Laitie c. WHIT. pag. 97. Augustine doth not accuse them of impudency or sacriledge for denying it nor reprouâ—s them much only he saith it is better then other treatises vvhich I acknovvledge And the consents of the former he alledged to proue that a sentence of this booke is not lightly to be reiected seeing many Churches did reade it though all did not receiue it as himselfe saith de ciuit Dei lib. 27. cap. 20. Now it is like they neuer would haue reiected the argument and testimony of this speech if the authoritie of that booke had been Canonicall in the Church And yet I denie not but that Antiquitie might thinke more reuerently of this booke then of other of the bookes of Apochryphaes For I obserue in Eusebius that c DVR Melito affirmeth this booke to be Canonicall WHIT. pag. 98. Be it so yet he reiectes all your other and what haue you got by it But by the name of Wisdome some thinke he meaneth the Prouerbs of Salomon Melita the Bishop of Sardis in a certeine Epistle written to Onesimus wherin he setteth downe exactly the number of the sacred bookes of the old Testament and accounteth this booke as one of the Canon yet he mentioneth not one of the others which we call Apochrypha neither Toby nor Iudith nor the Macchabees nor Ecclesiasticus nor yet any of the rest for which you striue so much yet he affirmeth that he tooke great paines to know exactly those auncient bookes and professeth that he fully attained his end Eusebius lib. 4. cap. 26. After saith he I had learned exactly what bookes belong to the old Testament I sent them here vnder written vnto
but because he was forced to follow a fellow that rode a wilde goose chase The benefit of which epitomie may be this If you reade the summe of euery answere before you reade each particular answer it will well prepare you to conceiue of the answere it selfe if after which I could wish also you would doe then it will present to you the whole as it were in a mappe When you haue read both and the whole booke if at any time you remember some thing you would see more particularly and can but tell or make some nie coniecture in what answere it is laid downe with reading of one page you may finde in what 〈◊〉 of the 〈…〉 be found Finally let it incourage you the â—â—ther to reade this Treatise because you shall finde in it whatsoeuer is by our late Papists in their Pâ—â—phlets and Treatises which they haue audaciously sent abroad in these few last yeeres when the lawes haue been laid asleepe and the iust seueritie of them greatly qualified I say whatsoeuer is in them either obiected against our Church and doctrine or spoken in their owne defence is here to be found and a solid answere giuen vnto them if any thing would giue them satisfaction If you bee but well exercised in this one booke out of it you may gather some smooth stones as out of a brooke by which though you should not be enabled to hold any long warre with a cunning Papist yet you may smite him in the forehead and fell him groueling to the earth 1. Sam. 17. as Dauid did the vncircumcised Philistine The Apostle exhorts that we earnestly contend for the maintenance of the faith Jude vers 3. which was once giuen vnto the Saints A naked and vnarmed man may well contend but shall neuer be able to maintaine any thing committed to him but it will soone be taken from him so may I say for the truth it is not words but weapons and weight of diuine reason that must defend it therefore must euery Christian souldier that thinkes to haue the crowne take to him such armour as Gods Armourie will affoord him Now those weapons if so be you cannot fetch so readily in the word of truth it selfe because of your infirmitie they are here brought to your hand and you withall are led by the hand to the particular places where they are in the word it selfe Now the Lord of hosts strengthen you in the truth and arme you with his grace that you may be able to stand against all the enemies of your saluation 2. Tim. 4.7.8 and that you may fight a good fight and finish your course and keepe the faith that you may obtaine the crowne of righteousnes which the Lord the righteous Iudge will giue at the last day vnto all those that loue his appearing Yours euer in the Lord Richard Stock The summe of the answere to the first Reason which is holy Scripture 1 PApiste account themselues disarmed if they must fight onely with the scriptures Page 24. nota 2 Of the number of the Canonicall scriptures that Luther and Caluine and their followers haue put out none which antiquitie and the purest Churches haue receiued Page 26 3 Campian was an Apostata not Luther Page 26 4 Luther onely thought not basely of the Epistle of S. Iames but antiquitie also Page 27 5 All Protestants highly reuerence this Epistle of S. Iames. Page 28. 30 6 Luther neuer writ so contempteously of the Epistle of Saint Iames as Campian affirmes Page 29 7 S. Paul and the Fathers haue taught iustification by faith alone Page 30 8 The place of S. Iames expounded and prooued not to be contrary to the doctrine of iustification by faith onely Page 31 9 Not Protestants of late but the Fathers of old haue put out of the Canon Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of Machabees and diuers other bookes Page 32. 33 10 The Papists cannot defend the Articles of their religion by the Canonicall scriptures but are forced to flye to the Apochrypha Page 34 11 Duraeus contrary to the Councell of Trent denieth traditions to be of equall authority with the scripture Page 34 12 Protestants haue denied no one booke or word of any booke of Canonicall scriptures Page 35 13 Angels do defend the elect but their hirarchy and degrees are without warrant of the word and their worship flat against the word Page 35. 36 14 Man hath no frâ—â—will by nature Page 37 15 The bookes of the Machabees are reiected by diuers Fathers and the Laodicene Councell ibid. 16 Neither prayers to the dead nor for the dead are lawfull Page 38 17 Seâ—â—en bookes of the Apochrypha were put out of the Canon by Hierome a thousand yeares before Caluine was borne Page 39 18 The 3. and 4. bookes of Esdra sometime were highly accounted by the church of Rome Page 39 19 Protestants haue not cut out of the Canon sixe epistles of the new Testament but honour them much neither haue the Lutherans Page 40 20 Augustine and Hierome in their difference for the number of the Canonicall bookes reconciled Page 41. 42 21 Meliâ—o Bishop of Sardis though he put the booke of Wisdome in the Canon yet he excludeth all the rest Page 43 22 The Laodicene Councell forbiddeth the reading of those bookes which are without the Canon and alloweth only the reading of thâ—se which we put in the Canon of the old and new Testament 43.44 The Councell of Carthage allowed them only for manners nota for three hundred yeares these bookes were not in the Canon so confesseth Duraeus nota Page 43 23 The Councell of Carthage denied the Pope to be vniuersall Bishop Page 43 24 The Papists crueltie farre surpasseth the Protestants iust seueritie Page 45 25 The scriptures haue in themselues many proofes that they are the word of God but the certaine infallible and sauing assurance is from the spirit of God Page 46. 47 26 Campian scorneth the iudgement of the spirit in respect of the iudgement of the Church as if they were contrary Page 46. 48 27 The Church can make no writing Canonicall neither doth the authority of it depend on the Church It hath in it selfe his owne authority Page 48 28 Without the spirit a man may haue some knowledge of the scripture but no faith The testiments of the spirit as not 〈◊〉 confute others but confirms our selues Page 45. nota 29 The Lutherans did not onely surde somewhat lacking in the Apocalyps but ouen antiquitie receiued it not you reâ—ected it Page 50 30 Luther preferreth the Gospell of S. Iohn and Paules Epistles before the other Gospels and why Page 50. 51 31 What a Gospell is and who especially is an Euangelist Page 51 32 Campian slandereth Luther as touching S. Lukes Gospell Page 52 33 Beza hath no more offended in charging S. Luke with a solecisme then Hierome did in charging S. Paul Page 53 34 The words of institution in the Supper of the Lord a little examined
we our selues do giue all diligence we can to attaine true sauing health to which seeing there is but one way and that plainely laid downe in the Scriptures we againe beseech you that renouncing all humane inuentions and forsaking those innumerable fictions of Poperie wherto for these few yeares past you haue bin addicted you would also with vs labour for that eternall saluation which the Scripture hath propounded to all Christians and to as many as are desirous of eternall life For what profiteth it to wish for saluation and miserablie to erre in the search of it Wherfore Campian we pray and beseech you to returne from these your wanderings and errors tending to death into the plaine and straight way of saluation For this know so long as you remaine a Iesuite you neither can be saued nor indeede can desire it And heere you say you are the briefer because you will deale with vs in a Treatise following Therefore now let vs heare your discourse REASONS OF CAMPIANS CHALLENGE RENDRED AND GIVEN TO THE Students of the English Vniuersities EDMVND CAMPIAN My principall reasons are ten 1. Holy Scriptures 2. True meaning of the holie Scriptures 3. Nature of the Church 4. Generall Councels 5. Fathers 6. Sure ground of the Fathers 7. Historie 8. Paradoxes of the Aduersaries 9. Sophismes of the Aduersaries 10. All manner of witnesses The first reason which is holy Scriptures WHereas there are many things which euidently open the Aduersaries mistrust in the cause yet nothing so much as the maiestie of Gods bookes by them most filthilie * It is false for we haue corrupted no part of the Bible corrupted For they who after that they haue reiected the voyces and testimonies of all other witnesses and are neuerthelesse driuen to so narrow shifts that they cannot defend their cause to be good except they lay violent hands vpon the holy Scriptures also assuredly shew themselues to be in great distresse and all other helps failing and fainting must now trie the last and vttermost shift What cause had the Manachies to cancel a Aug. lib. 28. contra Faust cap. 2 de vtilit cre c. 3. S. Matthewes Gospell and the Acts of the Apostles Desperation for they were tormented with these bookes both because they had denied Christ to be b Matth. 1. borne of a Virgin and also had falsely affirmed that then the holy c Act. 2. Ghost came first downe from heauen amongst Christians when their d Manes Paraclete that most wicked Persian leapt out What made the e Jren. lib. 1. cap. 26. Ebionits to abandon all S. Paules Epistles Deâ—peration for so long as these kept their authoritie Circumcision is abolished which they had brought backe againe What enforced f Praefat in Epist Iac. vide etiam lib. de capt Babyl centur 2. Luther that most wicked Apostata to call the Epistle of S. Iames * This is most false for Luther greatly approueth of this Epistle neither euer did he call it a contentious swelling barren or strawne Epistle contentious proud barren rushy and iudge it to be vnworthy an Apostolike spirit Desperation g Iaco. ca. 2. For by this Epistle that miserable caitife affirming our iustification to be by faith * This is false for the place maketh nothing at all against Iustification by faith only only is vtterly confuted coÌ„founded what incensed h Bibl. Geneu Luthers whelpes on a suddaine to put out of the * It is false thâ—se bookes were neuer accounted part of the true Canon true Canon of Scripture Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Macchabees in despight of them many other i Of the old Testament bookes vnto which they picked the like quarrell Desperation for by these heauenly k Tob. 12. Eccles 15. 1. Macha 12 1. Machab. 15. Oracles they be expresly conuinced as often as they dispute against the defence of Angels as often as they dispute against Free-will as often as they dispute against praying for the dead as often as they dispute against praying to Saints Is it so indeed Is there such frowardnes is there such presumption amongst meÌ„ when they had trodden vnder foot the authority of the Churches CouÌ„cels * Seas Fathers Martyrs Emperours People Lawes Vniuersities Histories all Monuments of Antiquitie holines had openly proclamed that they would haue all controuersies decided by the written word of God only would they then haue dismembred the very same word which only remained by cutting out of the whole body so many so good and so excellent partes therof For the Caluinists haue cut out of the old Testament l Baruch Tob. Iudith Sapient Eccles Macha dâ—o seauen whole bookes besides certaine other small peeces which I let passe vnspoken of The Lutherans likewise haue cut off S. Iames Epist for spight of it m Epistol ad Hebr. Epist Jud. Epist 2. Pet. Ep. 2 3. Iohannis it a censent Luth. in praefat Mag. Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap 4. Kem. in exam con Tri. Ses 4. De doct chr lib. 2. cap. 8. Ses 4. vide Mel. Can. lib. 2. de Loc. Theol. cap. 9.10.11 de praedest Sanct. cap. 14. fiue others which some where els also were once called in questioÌ„ To these also do the late Geneuans adde the booke of Hester a great part of the third chapter al the two last chapters of Daniel which the Anabaptists their school-fellowes had a little before coÌ„demned laughed to scorne But how much more modest lie delt S. Austine who making a Catologue of the books of holy Scriptures tooke for his rule neither the Hebrew Alphabet as the Iewes do nor yet his owne priuate spirit as Heretikes vse to do but that spirit wherewith Christ quickneth the whole body of his Church which Church being not Lady as Heretickes do cauil but only keeper of this gage hath by old * This is false for the Laodicene Councel doth so number the bookes of the Scriptures as we do and not as the Councell of Trent doth auncient Councels openly challenged this whole and entire treasure of the bookes of Scripture which the late CouÌ„cell of Trent also hath embraced The self-same S. Augustine intreating particularly of one parcell of Scripture could not perswade himselfe that the booke of Wisdome should by any mans rashnes or secret false suggestion be thrust out of the Canon of Scripture which euen in his time by iudgement of the Church processe of time testimonie af auncient writers and instruction of faithfull men had kept his authoritie as a sound and Canonicall booke what would he say if he were now liuing vpon the earth againe and should see the Lutherans and Caluinists to be Bible makers who with their sine and smooth stile haue raced both the old and new Testament and put out of the Canon of holy Scriptures not only the booke of Wisdome but many bookes more also so that
boulder then a Iesuite being newlie come out of your den or cabbine where you haue lurked these diuers yeeres to proclame warre against vs all and challenge to the combate the most valiant of vs that you saie was the euident apprehension of our distrust and diffidence in our cause But what manhood is this for so valourous a man as you make shew to be to prouoke and with sharpe warre to pursue so timerous aduersaries who are readie to betake themselues to their heeles not daring to stand to it but distrusting their owne strength But tell vs in what things our distrust hath bin so sensible There are many things say you which euidently bewray the aduersaries mistrust in the cause Verelie if boldnes in oppugning and withstanding Religion were of as great force as vsually it is in making of warre and scaling the enemies walles and racing his townes we might well feare your furious and desperate attempts for whatsoeuer could be compassed by rage furie and crueltie that hath not in this combate and contention been wanting But such weapons cannot dare religion and truth neither can they displace it Let it be graunted we haue not been so cheerefull and readie in the defence of a good cause as we ought and as the cause it selfe well deserued neither haue we put to flight your forces so soone as we ought to haue vanquished theÌ„ yet we neuer gaue ground we neuer turned our backs vpon you neither euer sled out of the field a DVR You boats much of your valour but vvhether thinke you is he valorous or fearefull vvho dare not othervvise buckle vvith his aduersarie but vpon condition he may forbid him what weapons he list and choose for himselfe vvhat he list Now here is your valour you forbid vs the vveapons of the Church Councels Fathers You only leaue vs the weapons of the Scriptures WH Pag. 4. He that will ouercome in this cause must onely vse those weapons which are allowed in this kind of sight For it is not lawfull heere as in warre to take any weapon by which you can wound your enemie But weapons must be fetched out of the armorie of the Scriptures and the spirit of God or else there vvill be no foyling of an aduersary And this is that which the Scriptures doe warrant and Constantine commanded the Fathers of the Nicene Councel to vse against the Arrians and to end controuersies the bookes of the Euangelists and Apostles and the oracles of the old Prophets Theodoret. lib. 2. cap. 6. And the like teacheth Hillarie de Trinit lib. 7. August Epist. 3. and contr liter Petil. Donat. lib. 3. cap. 6. and in diuers other places Why doe you then repoue this thing in vs Tell me vvhose cause thinke you is best vvhether ours vvho are content vvith the Sâ—riptures alone and being armed vvith them can defend our ovvne and refel others or yours vvhich in no case can be safe if the cause must be tried by the Scripture only Therefore at the fiâ—st you are forced to confesse that you must come into the field vnarmed and naked if no vveapons vvill be afforded you besides the Scriptures For tell vs Campian if you can and remember the bypast times Did we euer cuÌ„ningly auoid any disputation did we euer refuse any combate did we euer shift off any of your offers and challenges But how often haue we publikely entred the combate with you how often haue we refuted your oft iterated Sophistications what writing of yours is yet vnanswered by vs or what course of disputation haue we not yeelded to Are not all those disputations held at Wittenberge Ratesbone Augusta Spire Wormes Bearne Possia London Cambridge Oxford most plentifull and pregnant witnesses with what spirits with what learning with what truth we defended our Religion what shew or signe of feare or diffidence found you amongst vs nay rather how true and singular confidence did there appeare in vs you it is and not we when it comes to a trial indeed that begins to sweat chaunge countenance tremble euery ioynt of you and bewray your deepe distrust and the naughtines of your cause Wherefore Campian take it from me if you thinke our distrustfulnes will helpe you any thing you much deceiue your selfe for if we haue with courage stood against your predecessors so far surpassing you we will not yeeld a haire to you nor feare your manner of conflict being so childish in the iudgement of all men But this diffidence you so cast in our dish tell vs what it is and how it appeares so clearely Forsooth we distrust our hold in the Scriptures and the maiestie of Gods bookes we haue most filthilie corrupted This indeed is a very great crimination you obiect to vs and an vndoubted proofe of our distrust for they who are not able to maintaine the Religion they professe vnlesse they lay violent hands vpon the Scriptures and impeach the sacred authoritie of those heauenly bookes the cause on their side must be very naught and desperate indeed Therfore I graunt vnto you that it was very fearefull desperation which made the Manachies renounce the old Testament wholy and cancell part of the new the same also made Ebion reiect all Paules Epistles and other heretikes to do so too for there was nothing fitter for them to vphold those their monstrous opinions then by denying those bookes of holy Scripture But I pray you Campian let vs see how these things make for your purpose or what it is wherein we are so like those forenamed Heretikes Me thinkes it little beseemeth your learning and eloquence to slaunder vs and to pinne vpon our sleeues such odious crimes of auncient heretikes so vndeseruedly If we haue shaken hands with the Manachees if with the Ebionits tell vs wherein But if we are culpable of no such thing the Lord shall iudge your outragious and bold slaunders and maintaine our vprightnes and innocency For who euer thought and spoke more honorably reuerently and with more due regard of the Scriptures then we who haue receiued and imbraced all Scripture giuen by inspiration as the very voice of God himself holding it for the only mysterie of our faith and religion and so resting in it as that we desire no other helpe as necessary to saluation which if we had not with more diligence and deuotion defended then you euer did long ere this the glorie of it had perished and it had bin counted as a dead letter For what haue we done for these many yeeres with more endeuour and diligence then maintaine the maiesty and excellencie of the Scriptures which you haue so vnworthily violated And yet you blush not to match vs with the Manachees and Ebionits who haue violently laid most impure and villanous hands vpon those sacred bookes But say you Luther that most wicked Apostata called the Epistle of S. Iames a contentious swelling barren and strawen Epistle and iudged it vnworthy the spirit of an Apostle still
you And this it may be induced Augustine to attribute the more to this booke and yet it cannot be proued hence as you would haue it that this booke was Authenticall and Canonicall by the account of the Church for Augustine himselfe witnesseth that it was not allowed as Canonicall by the iudgement of the Church neither indeed if the Church would haue giuen it all the allowance she could could she haue made it Authenticall except it had before it owne Authenticalnes in it selfe from aboue But you who glory so greatly in Antiquitie in the voice of the Church in Councels what will you answere to the Laodicene Councell Concil Laodic Canon 59. which forbids the reading of those bookes which are without the Canon and commaundeth the reading of those only which are of the Canon of the old and new Testament f DVR It hath been answered a thousand times that as yet in this age all the bookes vvere not receiued into the Canon WHIT. pag. 102. Then by your confession for 300. yeeres after Christ these bookes were not in the Canon it skilleth not much what the latter Churches haue affirmed when the purest and most auncient Churches affirme the same wedo DVR The Councels of Carthage Florence and Trent haue allovved them for Canonicall WHIT. pag. 102. We acknowledge not the two last to be lawfull Councels the first allowed it for manners not doctrine and faith and if the authoritie of it bee so great with you then you may not call your Pope vniuersall Bishoppe for that Councell denied it to him Carthag 3. cap. 26. distinct 99. prima sedis But which are they are all those which the Tridentine Councell hath put in the Catalogue nothing lesse but those only which our Church doth hold Canonicall If Campian you will stand to the iudgement of this Councell neither the booke of Wisdome nor any one of the other shall haue place among the Canonicall Scriptures Now then whatsoeuer Augustine should say if he were aliue doth not much trouble vs for whatsoeuer he should say in this kind he could speake nothing against vs but it would touch the Fathers of the Laodicene Councell whose decree in this point touching the Canonicall Scriptures either he had seene or at least might take notice of it Now for the things which follow you shew much colour but little reason You call this a horrible and detestable shift Then doe you Campian if you can driue vs out of this hold Me thinketh it is so safe and well fortified that it will easily beare off and repell all your assaults Though say you their armes be blased neuer so far abroad by their owne disciples though they buy and sell benefices though in their sermons they cry out against Catholikes though they procure them the sword racke and gallowes yet are they ouercome naught set by horrible in mens sight and quite ouerthrowne But yet young Frier â—ow thus much by Gods blessing we hitherto stand vpright on our seete neither euer were we soyled at your hands but haue long agoe by the helpe of God scattered ouerthrowne and put to flight many of your armies And the whole huge forme of your pontificall and glorious synagogue hath long since tottered and in short time will fall to the ground as Dagon before the Arke vnlesse you Iesuits manfully vphold and susteine it for it is impossible for vs to be vanquished of you in the defence of this cause Therfore with good courage and cheerefulnes we pursue this flight nothing doubting but that the Lord in the end will represse you and all the enemies of his name and glorie and make you his footstoole And for that you write touching buying selling of benefices if any be yet amongst vs it is but the reliques of your wicked practises heretofore among vs. For you know the custome of the Romish Court you know their filthines their auarice their Simony yea you know how the whole world crieth out and that continually of your most gainfull Marchandizes Haue you now leisure since you left Rome to prie into our carriage are all things so wel at home that you can without shame find faults abroad Suppose you were now become honest and holy yet you shall neuer bee able to cleere your Church of those filthie blemishes wherewith it hath bin desiled in former times And if there be any yet amongst vs that vse so foule a trade they are well worthy to heare such reproaches from you as such practises do deserue But I maruell the lesse that you obiect to vs buying and selling of Benefices when you complaine of our crueltie Now good God are we so cruell and you so mild what shall I say to it or what answere may I make sure it is there is nothing more inhumane then cruelty or more opposite to a Christians vertue for the disciples of Christ ought to be gentle clement and meeke master-like what then are we more cruell then you I will neuer deny this triall that their cause should be iudged the worst whose cruelty appeares to be the greatest I call to witnes all the people of the Christian world who haue yet any sense of humanity and equity remaining in them Let Italy speake also Germany Spaine Fraunce and our England It were tedious to recite the horrible murders the fearefull burnings and exquisite punishments you exercised amongst vs. Your cruelty is knowne and is yet fresh in memory neither shall euer be buried in obliuion what like to these did we euer practise or wherein is our cruelty so great was it because we suffered not our throats to be cut by you nor receiued your weapons into our bodies nor laid our neckes vpon the block nor willingly gaue vp our liues that we might giue you leaue to liue as you list This is it indeed you wished for for this you labour and goe about we poore wretches are accounted cruell because we liue and liue to withstand your proceedings But I doubt not but all indifferent men do sufficiently discerne g DVR Campian himselfe had experience of your cruelty WHIT. pag. 105. If Campian was by publike proceeding condemned for treason and put to death who will accuse our cruelty and not the greatnes of his offence yea and that he suffered not for religion appeareth thus others who were condemned with him at the same time and for the same offence when they renounced the Popes authority of deposing of Kings and freeing of subiects from obedience were not put to death as he was how iniuriously you lay this crimination vpon vs for these things which you name as the sword the racke the gallowes and fier are the instruments of your cruelty and had it not been for these your Church had been ouerthrowne long agoe for by these weapons it was first founded after increased and is now maintained if once these faile you questionlesse it
AN ANSWERE TO THE TEN REASONS OF EDMVND CAMPIAN THE IESVIT IN CONFIDENCE WHEREOF HE offered disputation to the Ministers of the Church of England in the controuersie of faith WHEREVNTO IS ADDED IN BRIEFE MARGINALL NOTES THE summe of the defence of those reasons by IOHN DVRAEVS the Scot being a Priest and a Iesuit with a reply vnto it WRITTEN FIRST IN THE LATINE TONGVE BY THE REVEREND AND faithfull seruant of Christ and his Church WILLIAM WHITAKERS Doctor in Diuinitie and the Kings Professor and publike Reader of Diuinitie in the Vniuersitie of Cambridge AND NOW FAITHFVLLY TRANSLATED FOR the benefit of the vnlearned at the appointment and desire of some in authoritie into the English tongue by RICHARD STOCKE Preacher in London IN THIS TREATISE MOST OF THE Controuersies betwixt vs and the Church of Rome are briefely and plainely handled THE PRINCIPALL THINGS IN EVERY ANSWERE are gathered into a short summe and are set downe after the Epistle to the Reader Imprinted at London by FELIX KYNGSTON for Cuthbert Burby and Edmund Weauer 1606. TO THE RIGHT HONOVRABLE WILLIAM LORD KNOVVLES BARON OF GREYS TREASVRER OF HIS MAIESTIES Houshold and one of the Lords of his Maiesties most Honorable priuie Councell RIght Honourable the Religion or more truly the superstition of the malignant Church of Rome hath two speciall priuiledges aboue any religion in the world that either hath been or is The one that the professors of it may eate their God in the Sacrament the other that they may kill their King in their discontentment not only when he is an Heretike but as the law saith It is the reason giuen why Pope Zacharie deposed Hilaerike King of France and set vp Pipine in his place in Gratians decree part 2. caus 15. c. 3. Alius when he is Inutilis not for their turne and to their mindes The former hath bin the cause of the spilling of much blood in the daies of Q. Mary the latter of deposing of so many Kings and murthering of them in France and other places of Christendome and of the manifolde treasons in the daies of Queene Elizabeth of blessed and happie memorie And of two attempts against his sacred person and state in these three yeeres space The first was but a smoake the latter should haue been a sire the first was but the lightning the latter should haue been the thunderclap if he that is the God both of lightning and thunder had not gratiously preuented it Now the former of these points they defend euery where but the latter they a little blush to heare of not that it is not in their hearts but because their hands want power to effect it Yet that it is their doctrine and constant opinion hath been prooued in a small treatise which I presented to â—our I honor some few moneths ago And that so apparantly that they are at a default as the Councell was Act. 4.16 What shall we doe to these men for surely a manifest signe is done by them and is openly knowne to all them who dwell in Ierusalem and we cannot denie it So with a little change it may bee said by them What shall we say to these things for surely a manifest truth is told by them and it is openly knowne to all them who dwell in England and wee cannot denie it For though they haue endeuoured to answere it yet they haue not bin able to denie any thing in it Only these Charmers of the spirituall Egypt haue endeuoured to doe in like manner with their inchantments Exod. 7.11 But as all the Sorcerers miracles were not true but onely sleights and trickes by the helpe of Satan so are not these for the most part but only Iaglings and not able to deceiue any but fooles children either the ignorant or the seduced alreadie And in many things in effect they say as Iudah Gen. 44.16 How can wee iustifie our selues God and man hath found out the wickednes of vs all But not to digresse further at the time of my presenting of the foresaid Treatise to your Honour it pleased you to shew me Campians tenne Reasons lately taken in a Papists house translated into English wherewith many were peruâ—â—â—ed and others made to stagger in the way oâ— truth because of the goodly shew of truth that such gilded lies haue put vpon them by such cunning Orators Your Honour was then giuen to vnderstand that they were answered by diuers especially by that worthie and excellent Instrument of Gods glorie and one of the most glorious lights of our English Church Doctor Whitakers The book was shewed you but being written in the Latin tongue you wished for the m re benefit of the generall that it might be turned into English Your will was a commaund vnto me who professe I owe much dutie to your Honour and haue had lesse opportunitie than will to shew it for these few yeeres space I haue been towards you and now as soone as I could for my publike seruice of the Church in my poore ministerie I haue effected it Touching which if I may bee bold to deliuer what I thinke in few words thus much I say for Campians reasons I account him bold in all foolish in many things yet wise in this that in the beginning he tels vs they are his tenne chiefe Reasons Herein he is like to the foolish Painter who when he had made two pictures of two small beasts which after they were made nothing resembled those which he intended writ ouer their heads This is such a beast and this such an one So he hauing composed these tenne Rhetoricall speeches being so without reason which he intended they should haue had he calles them reasons lest the reader in perusing should haue mistaken them as he he had done in writing Doubtlesse at a conclusion Campian is an excellent fellow and if he could haue furnished as good premises as he hath enhaunced and amplified the conclusion he would haue put the answerer to much trouble But now we may say of them as Hierom said of the bookes of Iouinian Hieron aduers Iouinian lib. 1. It is harder to know what he holds Multo difficilius est nosse quam vincere 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Portenta verborum descriptionis dedecus Vel per fâ—brem somniare vel a reptum morbo phrenetico Hippocratis vinculis alligandum Hieron cont Heluid cap. 3. Ne respondendo dignus fieret qui vinceretur Quia loquacitatâ—m facundia existimat Quia maledicere omnibus bonae consereatiae signum arbitratur Obscandalum fratrum qui ad cius rabien mouebantur than to confute his opinions not for any deepnes of matter but because he is as Hierome calles Iouinian one that loues to speak darkly For he hath as he speaketh bumbasted words deformed discourses and he that reades him aduisedly would thinke him either dreaming in some distempered fit of an Ague or perhaps rather sick of a frensie so that he had neede
her purer times Hieron ad Laetam de institut siliae epist. 7. it held the foundation which now it hath quite ouerthrowne Hierome I meane whose counsell I would make the ground of my aduice fitting our times He directing Lata for the education of her daughter for this point aduiseth thus Let her first reade the Psalmes that by such heauenly hymnes she may withdraw her selfe from vaine delites Then the Prouerbes of Salomon that thence she may haue excellent instructions for the gouernment of her life Then Ecclesiastes that by it she may learne to conteÌ„ne al worldly things After these the booke of Iob that she may follow the examples of vertue and patience let her proceed to the Gospels and neuer lay them out of her hands the Acts and the Epistles of the Apostles let her studiously reade and make them the delite of her heart And when she hath furnished the storehouse of her soule with these riches let her heedfully reade the Prophets the fiue bookes of Moses the bookes of the Kings and Chronicles and the small volumes of Ezra and Hester And in the last place the Song of Songs lest if she reade it first of all she may happily be wounded while she is not able to vnderstand the spirituall marriage Song set out vnder carnall words But let her take heed of all the bookes of Apocrypha and if at any time she will reade them not for the truth of doctrine but for the reuerent resemblance they may seeme to haue with the holy Scriptures let her take this instruction withal that they were not written by those whose names they carrie and that in them also there are many corrupt things scattered here and there and therefore it is a speciall point of wisedome to cull out the gold from the drosse Let her haue with her the bookes of Cyprian let her runne ouer the Epistles of Athanasius and bookes of Hilarie without feare of error Let her delite in their writings and â—its in whose books is deliuered the sound doctrine of faith Other mens workes let her so reade that she may rather censure them than be tied to follow them Thus farre Hierome Which direction of his as touching the forepart of it the Scriptures and Apocrypha if any think they could better aduise let them for me enioy their conceit vnder their correction I will subscribe fully to it In the latter part because he speaketh of Authors not in our naturall tongue in stead of them I would commend these vnto you written originally in our owne tongue For matter of controuersie Doctor Bilson now Lord Bishop of Winchester his true defence betweene Christian subiection and vnchristian rebellion against the Iesuites Doctor Fulke his answere to the Rhemist Testament and diuers other of his workes and Doctor Willets Synopsis For matter of conscience the Workes of Master Greenham and Master Rogers For matter both of conscience and soundnes of faith the Workes of Master Perkins Many other particular Treatises of speciall things there are written by good and learned men which you may reade as occasion may offer it and the aduice of discreete men may encourage you Now with the bookes of the first kinde would I commend this particular book which at the commanding request of an honorable person I haue both reduced into one booke written by seuerall Authors in seuerall Treatises and translated into English for your benefit In which the greatest part of the controuersies betwixt vs and the Church of Rome you shall finde in some part touched The state of the question plainly laid downe and some manifest short and pithie answere or resolution of it Two Papists are the opponents Campian an Englishman and Duraeus a Scot one Englishman and a famous light of our Church hath answered them both The answere to the first was more sparing because the aduersaries obiections were either slender or sleightly vrged But there is so full a supplie made thereof by the answere to the second that he had little stomacke or abilitie to make a reioynder The whole worke I assure you if you dare take my iudgement will be very profitable if so be you will be attentiue diligent readers For besides that good which is in it self it will be a notable introduction to all other Treatises of controuersies that with more ease and facilitie you may reade them and with more profit be conuersant in them The text as I may so call it is Campians and Doctor Whitakers the marginall notes are composed of Duraeus his obiections in defence of Campian and the Romish errors and the replie of Doctor Whitakers in defence of the truth and his owne answere Duraeus is noted thus DVR Doctor Whitakers thus WHIT. I haue as fitly as I could placed euery obiection with his answere neere vnto that which is excepted against and if any thing happen by the ouersight of the Printer or length of the note to bee not so aptly placed take a little paines to looke ouer the precedent and subsequent pages I confesse I haue in Duraeus omitted many things because they either were not pertinent for the defence of Campian or but the multiplication of many testimonies out of the Fathers which haue their full answere in the generall or answered in some other place before The number in euery answere noteth the page where it is to be found in Doctor Whitakers his replie that any man may turne and reade the answere at large if he vnderstand the tongue and receiue more contentment Yet this know there are seueral impressions of the bookes which also differ that which I followed was imprinted anno 1583. For the most part I haue onely in quotations set downe the booke chapter and verse both of the Scriptures and Fathers and seldome recited the whole words because the margent would not beare it but when the substance of the answere consisted in theÌ„ and therfore you must both helpe me your selues in vsing your Bibles to peruse the places The superiours directing you to what place euery note belongs are the letters of the Alphabet If there be sometimes a note and no superiour you must conceiue it belongs vnto the former note where the superiour is And if the number be somtimes omitted you must so vnderstand that the answere is in the second page where the former is noted The obiection you shall often finde to haue diuers parts and particulars in it and so also the answere semblably Therefore you must take paines for your profit to compare one thing with another and one part with another If you follow these directions you shall reade the whole with no small fruit to your selues And yet to make it more profitable vnto you I haue in reading the sheetes ouer as they were printed gathered the summe of euery answere and the chiefe matter in it not in any order I coÌ„fesse which had bin a thing impossible because no method is in it not from any error of the Answerer
beate with roddes their tongues you pulled out of their mouthes their hands you burned off with Torches you tormented crucified hanged and beheaded them you burnt them aliue and tosted them at a soft fire yea the Infant leaping out of the mothers bellie you receiued vpon the speares point and cast it into the flaming fire To conclude whatsoeuer barbarous crueltie could inuent that you were not wanting to put in execution against them And if your crueltie had ended with the liuing and had terminated in their deathes it had been lesse but so raging was your tyranny that you tooke vp the bodies of Saints interred in the earth you arreigned them vpon a day accused them at a barre condemned them to death and burned them at a stake euen exceeding those old tyrants in furie and crueltie Can you name any one such sauage fact amongst vs or what was he that was put to death amongst vs whom euery good man that heard of him iudged not worthie of death threefold more then life Wherefore Campian acknowledge your owne crueltie and accuse not ours which if it were as great as you would make men beleeue yea if any at all you would not haue so easilie and speedily obeyed your Principall commaunding your returne hither But proceed to tel vs after your comming what you did least peraduenture say you I should haue been caught before that any man heard what I had to say forthwith I writ downe my determination and purpose why I came what I sought for what manner of warre and against whom I purposed to proclaime it The end then of your comming was to proclaime warre against vs. But neither he that sent you was an enemy for any iust cause on our parts neither haue you duly performed an Heralds office for you no sooner set your foote vpon English ground but you hidde your selfe in corners that we could enioy no sight of you If this be to discharge your commission iudge you Beleeue me this so tymorous and foolish proclaiming of warre made little for your honestie or the honor of your holy Father that sent you The first draught of writing say you I kept still about me that if I were apprehended it might be found with me A copy thereof I left in keeping with a friend of mine which vnawares truly to me was shewed vnto many other men and by them copied out How true this Narration of yours is let others conceiue as they list for my part I giue no credit at all to it For if you came as you say to proclaime warre against vs shall we thinke those letters of defiance were published without and against your priuitie Besides your letters of challenge which your fauorites spread abroad were so cleerelie written that they foretold not of an enemie comming on but pointed at him as alreadie come and readie to pray vpon vs so that after I saw your glorious and maruellous challenge I made full account to see you shortly after in the middest of our Vniuersities either Oxford or Cambridge But why did you set downe your determination in writing except your purpose were to publish it you say that it might be found with you if you were taken What is that we heare from you Campian came you to lurke in holes and to betake your selfe to your hecles or came you to dispute I find no truth in your words nor liklihood of truth in this tale I would I could find you had either iudgement or memorie Hanmer and Charke saie you haue answered my challenge verily these two worthie men now named haue so intertained your most vaine and more then intolerable bragging schedule and Libell as it well deserued and haue passing well abated your Iesuiticall and childish triumph But why I pray you haue you slipped ouer that answere of learned M. Charke and made no reply to it you refute all they bring against you in one word saying All that they alledge is to no purpose at all An answere soone made and not vnsutable to Campians carriage but tell vs why for say you they can make no answere to the purpose but this we accept your offers her Maiestie hath promised safe conduct come let vs conferre how childish is it to expect such an answere which if they should promise it is not in their power to performe Though Campian perswade your selfe if this liberty were graunted vs it should be as acceptable to vs in deed as it is to you in shew If her excellent Maiestie and her wise Counsell did thinke it fit and for common peace that publike disputation should be held about Religion are you so sillie to thinke you should haue none to encounter with you or you should carrie the day without blow or bloodshed I am not comparable to Charke Hanmer nor infinit others who are either professors in the Vniuersitie or haue a charge in the Church yet I should not thinke my selfe fit to liue if I feared to buckle in any controuersie with you for if you be the man Campian whom we heere some weekes past in a great concourse discoursing what you could and disputing your best I see not any cause why any one of vs should feare to ioyne with such an Aduersarie in any controuersie For how did you acquite your self that day you were dealt withal by our men in some parts of your pamphlet wherin it is likely you could easilie giue euery man satisfaction and least you should complaine you were iniured if any new thing had been propounded to you And wheras in the entrāce you bitterly inueighed against Luther writ that in some desperate mood he called the Epistle of Iames a swelling barren cōtentious strawen Epistle The booke was brought you where you feigned such things were written and you were willed to shew the place when you saw you were taken tardy you would faine haue put off the imputation of a slaunderer and inuented a shift worth all mens obseruation for say you the preface where it was is purged of it and yet it is very manifest that there was neuer one word changed in it At last you made this answere which made all men laugh exceedingly and indeed it was very rediculous that you would send to the Emperour and to the Duke of Bauaria who should certifie her Maiestie that Luther had written such things But yet in another booke of his you think you haue gotten some matter of triumph For Luther in his booke written of the captiuitie of Babylon hath this saying that many with great probabilitie auouch This Epistle to be none of S. Iames nor to be answerable to the spirit of an Apostle heere you cry out oh horrible blasphemie Answere was made you that Luther did not say it himselfe but brought others in probablie affirming it Doe you suppose there is no difference betwixt these two yet you still vrged the point and clamorously obiected blasphemie Eusebius was shewed you who in plaine words calleth this Epistle
the fatte would be in the fire Campian if you had not one fit of rayling at Luther for this is to shew your selfe a right Iesuite as indeed you are shamelessely and audaciously to breake out into rayling and specially to teare Luther with most bitter reproches This is your facultie and profession this you haue vndertaken to do whatsoeuer youâ— leaue vndone surely he is an happy man whom the Lord thus honoreth with the enmitie and hatred of such wicked men for he cannot chuse but be an excellent man whom wicked men do so deadly pursue But you obiect against Luther his Apostasie look to your selfe Campian if you may not bee more iustly accused of this crime for doubtlesse you are either an Apostata or you were a cunning hypocrite But if it be Apostasie to forsake Apostataes then was Luther such an Apostata For hee abandoned theeues heretikes Apostataes and separated himselfe from that Curch in which that daily Apostasie from religion 2. Thess 2.3 which the Apostle did foretell was now come to the height they then who would not be Apostataes must flie from the Apostasie of your Church But say you Luther spake not so reuerently of the Epistle of S. Iames as was fitting It is well all you can challenge him with is touching this Epistle only he neuer did by any one word impeach the Gospels of Matthew Marke Luke and Iohn neither the Epistles of Saint Paul or Saint Peter only a little he taxed the Epistle of Saint Iames. Is Luther alone in this crime hath all Antiquitie receiued this Epistle of S. Iames Luther only reiected it vndoubtedly no neither was Luther ignorant what censure the auncient Church gaue of this Epistle * Lib. 2. c. pa 23. Eusebius adueÌ„tured to write expresly of this Epistle thus b DVR But Eusebius onely saith that this Epistle vvas thought of diuers not to be vvritten by S. Iames and denies not the canonicall authoritie of it For after hee saith It was receiued of many Churches WHIT. Pag. 12. You wrest both the words and sence of Eusebius for he alleageth not other mens opinions but his owne direct iudgement But if wee admit that you say it must the rather bee counterfeit for if Saint Iames did not write it and yet hee calleth himselfe James the seruant of God and of our Lord Iesus Christ must it not bee forced â—aue the pen-men of the Scripture vsed to take other mens names vnto them If you deny it to bee written by Saint James you must needes confesse it to be Apocrypha and so after your sense Eusebius hath reiected this Epistle which thing to him that readeth Eusebius will manifestly appeare And that hee saith many Churches receiue it and not all must needs proue that he thought it was not Canonicall Be it knowne to all men that this Epistle which is fathered on Saint Iames is counterfeit what can be written more plainely it may be you will except against Eusebius But tell vs why therefore not to stand with you Hieronym in Catalogo will you heare what Hierome saith who as you well know was an Elder of the Church of Rome The Epistle of Iames is held to haue been published vnder his name by some other The one saith it is counterfeit the other writeth that it was thought to be published not by the Apostle but by some other Why then are you angrie with Luther whom you see not vnaduisedly and rashly to doubt of the authoritie of that Epistle but therein followeth the iudgement and censure of the auncient Church for from hence it is very cleare c DVR Doth hee therefore doubt of the authoritie of this booke what shall vve then say to Caluin vvho hath plainely denied that the Epistle to the Hebrues vvas vvritten by Saint Paul and if you had not been a deceiuer you vvould haue alleadged Hierome vvholy for it follovveth Though by little and little in succeeding ages it obtained authoritie WHIT. Pag. 16 He that saith It is thus held and neither dislikes nor refures such a suspition sheweth he not himself also doubtful of it Caluin had some reason because that Epistle was not published in the name of Saint Paul as this was of Saint Iames. What comparison is there in these two the Epistle of Saint Iames hath his name in the beginning of it as the author of it so hath not the other the name of Saint Paul so that hee that denies that to bee written by Saint Iames must needes make it counterfeit But no such thing here Therefore may this be held to be canonicall though it be denied to be written by Saint Paul If you had read but a few lines more you should finde that I vsed no deceite neither had you causâ— to be so bitter And these words of Hierome prooue directly that the authoritie of this Epistle was sometimes doubted of that the first age of the Church doubted somewhat of the credit and authoritie of this Epistle But you will say it was afterwards receiued and Hierome witnesseth as much I inquire not how iustly that might be receiued in a succeeding age which once was reiected that the credit and authoritie it had not in the beginning it might gaine in time by mens calmnesse in iudging neither will I contend about the authority of this Epistle Let it be as great as euer any booke had we verily receiue it and put it in the Canon of the Scriptures for whatsoeuer Luther or any other may conclude touching this Epistle or lessen the credit of it any way yet all our Churches willingly imbrace it and iudge it written by the Apostle or some Apostolike man and in it do vndoubtedly acknowledge the doctrine and spirit of an Apostle * Caluin in argument in Epist. Iacob I saith Caluin willingly and without controuersie receiue this Epistle because I see no iust cause to reiect it Therefore obiect no longer vnto vs other mens sharpe censures and hard speeches whereof we are no wayes guilty for what is it to vs what other men thinke of this Epistle who dispraise no part of it neither detract any thing from the authority thereof But where I pray you writ Luther any such thing which you make mention of let vs see the place that we may perceiue how faithfully you deale You tell vs of a Preface he writ vpon the Epistle of S. Iames such as I thinke few men know for it is no where to be found amongest Luthers workes yet by accident I light vpon that preface and read it from the beginning to the ending in which not any of those things is to be seene which you mention so that we may easily coniecture what we are like to find of you in the sequell when in the beginning you are not ashamed to lye so palpablie For Luther begins his preface thus The Epistle of S. Iames though reiected of Antiquitie I much commeÌ„d hold very fitting profitable And in
this booke of the Babylonish captiuity he thus writeth of this Epistle I passe ouer that which many probablie affirme that this was not the Epistle of S. Iames the Apostle nor agreeing with the spirit of an Apostle These things very grauely and modestly hath Luther written concerning this Epistle of S. Iames d DVR Jf you had seene the copie printed at Jena you should see that Luther thus speaketh of this Epistle WHIT. p. 22. I acknowledge that Luther in a most auncient preface published by himselfe at Wittenberge 1525. called it a strawen Epistle in comparison of the Epistles of Saint Peter and Saint Paul but finde not that you affirme any where neuer culled it as you affirme a contentious barren swelling or a strawen Epistle though I deny not but Luther was of that opinion that he greatly called in question the Author and Argument of this Epistle And it had been your part who condemne his opinion to haue confuted his reasons Erasmus euidently writeth that this Epistle hath no tast of Apostolike authoritie so that Luther iudged more tolerably of this Epistle then Erasmus But howsoeuer the case stand Luther in his iudgment is not without the consent of the e DVR Jf he agreed with the first and purest Churches you differing from him doe dissent from them WHIT. I call them the purest Churches not for their sincere iudgement of this Epistle but for that they flourished in the best and purest times first and purest Churches And yet to let Luther passe we haue no other opinion of this Epistle then your selues haue and honor it as much as you thinke it deserues And let me promise and anow this for vs all whatsoeuer in this combate which you haue vndertaken you proue out of this Epistle we will most willingly imbrace and not shift it off as you suspect we will All the sentences of this Epistle we allow of and reiect not any one For as for that instance which you giue of sole faith it is but a sillie and lame tricke of your sophistry our doctrine of iustification by faith only is most true holy which S. Paul also clearely teacheth though he doe not f DVR Saint Paul neuer in plaine words hath affirmed our iustification by faith onlie WHIT. pag. 27. When S. Paul saith we are iustified by faith it is as much as by faith alone because faith respects onely mercy and withall excludeth workes Rom. 3.28 cap. 4.5.6 cap. 3.20 Gal. 2.16 and lastly he saith we are freely iustified by grace Eph. 2.7.8 Rom. 3.24 then he affirmes that faith only doth iustifie expressely vse these words Rom. 3.24.28 Faith alone And the auncient do so expound and interpret S. Paul Ambrose saith g DVR Ambrose by his sole faith excludeth only the workes of the ceremoniall law and so he speaketh in that place WHIT. pag. 33. It is enough that he affirmeth that this is S. Paules position we are iustified by faith only And when he excludeth only the workes of the ceremoniall law in that he is against the iudgement of Augustine and Hierome and himselfe also in lib. 2. cap. 2. de Iacob vita beata They are iustified only by faith it is the gift of God h DVR Basil excludes only those workes which are wrought by the sole power of freewill WHIT. pag. 38. Basil excludes not only the workes wrought by the power of freewill but euen those which proceed from faith and grace for he produced S. Paul and Saint Peter whom he denies to haue been iustified by workes yet had they both faith and grace Basil saith They are iustified by faith alone in Christ. i DVR Nazianzene excludeth only that high knowledge of diuine mysteries WHIT. pag. 41. Nazianzene excludes not only that high knowledge of diuine mysteries but also by it all other workes for seeing it is the most excellent and so excluding the greatest he must needs exclude the lesse Nazianzene saith Righteousnes consisteth in faith only Why should I recite any other sayings of other of the Fathers of the Church This doctrine is both Euangelicall and Apostolicall contrary to this if Iames or an Angell from heauen should preach let him be held as impious wicked and accursed But you will say S. Iames denies iustification by faith only yea affirmes that we are iustified by workes We answere that the Apostle speaketh of a k DVR Saint Iames speaketh not of a faigned faith for how can be theÌ„ speake of Abrahams faith how is it fayned to beleeue that God is WHIT. pag. 42. S. Iames speakâ—th of a fayned faith as is plaine vers 14. for it is in words only vers 15.16 it giueth nothing when reliefe is required verse 17. it is without workes and dead vers 18 only that is true faith which can be shewed by workes heere no workes vers 19. It is only such a faith as the diuels haue so a fayned and dead faâ—th pag. 44. And Augustine thus expoundeth it De fide oper Cap. 14. in Psal 31. in Praefat. and pag 45. Though Abrahams faith was a true faith because it shewed it selfe by true fruites and true workes that proues not but their faith is fayned who haue no workes Of which Saint Iames speaketh pag. 46. faith is not the lesse fayned and vaine because it beleeues that God is seeing Saint Iames affirmeth the diâ—els beleeue as much feigned dead idle and counterfeite faith which many boasted of and falsly perswaded themselues they were iust by it This faith which we may more truly call a carcase of faith Saint Iames denieth to be sufficient for saluation to any and he that is iustified he teacheth must be iustified by workes that is must be proued and declared to be iust for it must needs be that faith be liuing fruitfull and accompanied with good works that all may clearely perceiue and discerne you are indued with true faith And so doth S. Iames very fitly accord with S. Paul while he disputes from the effects when as S. Paul argueth from the cause The principall immediate cause of our iustification S. Paul makes faith S. Iames writeth that a man is iustified by workes that is euery man by his workes as by most pregnant testimonies is l DVR It is ridiculous to thinke that Saint Iames should teach men how to shew themselues iust and speake nothing of true iustice WHIT. pag 47. We say not that Saint Iames teacheth only how a man may obtaine the opinion of iustice with men but how he may shew and declare himselfe by certaine proofes and arguments to be indued with true iustice And that this place toucheth the declaration of true faith by workes and so the demonstration of our iustification not we but your owne men do so teach Thomas Aquin. in Iacob 2. Glossa-Ordin in Iacob knowne and acknowledged iust while his inuisible faith is witnessed and declared by his visible workes
Therefore you see there is no reason why for this cause Luther should either find fault with or feare the Epistle of S. Iames. And thus Augustine hath reconciled these two Apostles Iames and Paul that you may see that we are not broachers of any Noueltie Wherefore saith m DVR Augustine maketh nothing for you but against you WHIT. pag. 50. Augustinâ— affirmâ—th directly that S. Iames speaketh of a vaine and fayned faith which is as much as we here produce him for Augustine Aug. quaesâ— 85 quaeâ—t 76. the iudgements of the two Apostles S. Paul S. Iames are not contrarie each to other when the one saith a man is iustified by faith without workes and the other saith that it is a vaine faith which is without workes because S. Paul speakâ—th of workes which goe before faith Saint Iames of workes which follow faith at S. Paul himselfe sheweth in many places Therefore the Apostle S. Iames would not neither ought to detract any thing from the doctrine of iustification which Luther learned from S. Paul Yea all Papists and Iesuits shall sooner be torne asunder then this iudgement of Luther touching faith alone shall either quaile or be ouerthrowne From Luther you turne the edge of your speech to the whelpes of Luther for so you as an vncleane dogge terme men famous and flourishing with all good qualities But why you should so call them I well conceiue not vnlesse it be for that they neuer cease barking against your Bishops and Monkes and other Church robbers like your selfe But let vs heare what heynous thing those whelpes haue committed They haue on a suddaine put out of the true Canon of the Scripture Tobias Ecclesiasticus the two bookes of the Macchabees and many other bookes Say you of a suddaine Campian Is it true indeed that you are such a stranger in the writings of the auncient Fathers that you know not that long agoe these bookes were raced out of the Canon Looke I pray you into Hierome and out of him call to mind what antiquitie hath done That we may know saith n DVR Hierome saith that the former Churches did not receiue these bookes for Canonicall but denies them not to be Canonicall WHIT. pag. 52. Hicrome affirmeth not only that these bookes were not receiued of the fore-going Churches for Canonical but himself oâ—ten times denies them to be such and plainely cals them Apochâ—ypha bookes which he wâ—uld neuer haue done if the Church then had taken them for Canonicall yea and as Duraeus confesseth they were not so taken vntill â—lmoâ—t 70â— yeâ—res afâ—er Christ Hierome Hieron iâ— Prologo Galiato Whatsoeuer bookes are more then these they are to be accouÌ„ted among the Apochrypha Therefore Wisdome which commonly is called the Wisdome of Salomon and the booke of Iesus the sonne of Syrach and Iudith and Tobias and Pastor are not in the Canon Will you that are but a Frier put these bookes in the Canon which Hierome following the iudgement of the auncient Church and the truth it selfe denieth to be in the Canon marke well his owne words They are not in the Canon You say that we haue dashed them out and why should we not so doe For saith Hierome they are not in the Canon Desire you any further testimonies Epiphanius saith as much as Hierome who after he had recited diuers bookes which you say we haue put out of the Canon he thus writeth as Cornarius renders his words out of the Greeke These bookes verily are profitable and helpefull Epiphan in lib. de mensur Ponder but they are not reckoned in the number of those which are receiued Therefore they are not to be found in Aaron neither in the arke of the Couenant But see out of Hierome more manifest and pregnant things Hieron praefat in lib. Solomon As therfore the Church readeth the bookes of Iudith Tobias and Macchabees but accounteth them not Canonicall Scripture so also these two bookes he meaneth Wisdome and Ecclesiasticus it reades for edification of the common sort not for confirmation of any doctrine of the Church If Campian you be ignorant of these auncient testimonies you are but a young souldier in that kind of fight where you would be thought a well experienced Captaine but if you know them you are too vniust and iniurious vnto vs to obiect to vs I know not what desporation because wee admit not those bookes in the Canon of the Scripture which Antiquitie tels vs directly were neuer admitted neither are to be admitted Caietan in cap 24. Mattb. And verily Cardinall Caietan feares not to auouch that he that writ the booke of the Macchabees in a certeine prophesie of Daniels was a lyer but the holy Ghost was neuer wont to be deceiued in the interpreting of the Scripture Now wheras you imagine that we are conuinced by those Oracles as often as we dispute against the defence of Angels as often as we dispute against freewill as often as we dispute against praying to Saints You must fiâ—st before you can conuince vs proue that an argument will conclude necessarily out of those bookes to confirme the doctrine of the Church which Hierome demeth and you shall neuer be able to proue though you call all the Iesuits to a consultation And seeing you obiect desperation to vs see hoâ— you bewray your owne miserable â—esperation who cannot establish the Articles of your faith by the Canonicall Scriptures but you she to the Apocâ—ypha whose authority hath bin and for euer shall be doubted of in the Church The Lord hath commited his Will and Woâ—d to writing and commended it to his Church Those writings with all diligence and piety we receiue and reuerence we are content with them and we maintaine theiâ— sufficiency let goe then these questionable obscure and Apochrypha bookes and out of these contend with vs about religion But your religion long agoe hath passed beyond the bounds of the sacred Scripture and hath broken forth into many superstitions And hence it is that you doe the thing than which nothing can be more malapert and intolerable that is make of like authoritie with holy Scripture not only the Apochrypha bookes but euery o DVR Pag. 5â— â—â—e do not affâ—me Traditions to be of the same authority with the holy Scriptures WHIT. pag. 59 Though Duraeus heere denieth it yet the Councell of â—rent doth with the like holy affection and reuerence receiue and honor them as it doth the bookes oâ— the old and new Testamâ—nt See Decâ—et 1. Sess 4. vnwritten Tradition whersoeuer you come by them at the second or third hand But what do I telling you of these things who shamefully haue aduentured long since to violate and infâ—inge all the lawes both of God and man Take this from me if you can demonstrate that we haue condemned or reiected any one booke or any p DVR Pag. 64. You haue raced out these words out of S. Iohn Euery spirit
â—hich diuideth Christis not of God â—nd the historie of the adulterous woman Iohn 8.3 WHIT. pag. 65. We haue not raced it out of the â—cripture for it is not to be found in the moâ—t auncient Greek copies but as we read it 1. Ioh. 4.3 Cyprian also l. b. 2. cap. 8. testim contra Iudaeos so reads it and Augustine also ad Poâ—â—ent lib. 2. cap. 7. reads bo h. The history of the woman taken in adultery we race not out though some of the auncient haue done and Beza though he demurred about it veâ— neuer dashed it out part and portion of any booke which appeareth to haue bin written and confirmed by diuine authoritie I will neuer contend any longer but yeeld you the day and giue vp our weapons to you But if we haue euer most faithfully kept the whole corpes of the Scriptures and haue seuered the true bookes from false and haue defended the heauenly truth of God and preserued it vncorrupt why doe you poore silly Fâ—ier cry out of our desperation when your selfe is so farre plunged in desperation it selfe that there is no certainty of your saluatioÌ„ but by the deprauation and corruption of the holy Scriptures Now in that you affirme we are conuinced by those oracles As often as we dispute of the defence of Angels of freewill of praying for the dead and of praying to Saints they are thing which we haue discussed a thousand times and haue exactly determined them out of the true oracles of God The defence of Angels is taught vs in the Scripture where we are taught that God hath set his Angels ouer certaine people Dan. 10. 12. â—sal 91.11 places and men and of this in general we nothing doubt but that Angels haue that commission from the Lord that they must prouide for mens safety and saluation So that we deny them not some kind of ministration yea we attribute as much to them as the Lord hath taught vs we should And as for your q DVR Denys â—as S Pauls disciple and he hath manifested such mâ—â—teries WHIT. pag 68. Why did not S. Paul who waâ— rapt vp into the third heauen and saw such great things declare vnto vs the hierarchy of Angels did he burâ—e it in silence and his disciple tell it abroad But Denys was not the disciple of S. Paul as shall in another place be proued Hierarchie and manifold degrees of Angels we are willingly ignorant of them and no whit enuy your knowledge who haue had the reuelation of such great mysteries from your Denys who hath that I may vse the words of S. Paul aduaunced himselfe in those things whic he neuer saw But it is another patronage of Angels which you defend and hold that we ought to worship them and call vpon them which the Scripture in plaine words forbiddeth for r DVR Saint Paul forbids onely the offering vp of sacrifice to Angels and making of them nevv mediatâ—rs WHIT pag. 70. S. Paul foâ—bids all worshipping of them and so prayers a swell as sacrificeâ— they being a part of worship pag 71. Chrysost in Coloss 2. hom 7. in these words Occumen in Coloss 2. whom you alledge do not interpret them for you but for our opinion and as the truth is S. Paul condemnes Worshipping of Angels Coloss 2.18 And the Angell once and againe called S. Iohn from this kind of worship Å¿ DVR Saint Iohn did nâ—t worship the Angell but tooke the person of those who held that Angels were to be worshipped with sacrifices that he being forbidden they might be reproued in him WHIT. pag. 72. John did not as you say for neither offered he any sacrificeâ— neither affirmeth he that he dissembled but saith directly I fell downe to worship before him You on the coÌ„trary say he fell not downe to worship And your Thomas vpon Apoc. 19. saith S. John intended to worship with Dulia And vpon Apocal. 22. with Latria See thou doest it not Apoc. 19.10 22 9. Tob. 12. I am thy fellow seruant and one of thy brethren worship God As for Raphael in t DVR The auncient Fathers haue cited the booke of Toby aâ— Irene Cyprian Hâ—la WHIT. pag. 73. Then will it follovv thâ—t out of what booke soeuer the Fathers haue alledged any testimony it must be of the Canon â—o the 3 4. bookes of Esdra for Augustine Cyprian Ambrose cite them yet your Church reiecteth them DVR Hierome putteth them out of the Iewish Canon not of the Canon of the Church WHIT. pag. 74. It is strange those Fathers should make them Canonicall when iâ— Hieromes time long after them they were not no they were neither in the Canons of the Church nor of the Ievves Canon Hieron in Prasat in lib. Salom. DVR Your English Synagogues reade Toby very much WHIT. pag. 76. And other Apochryphaeâ— but accounteth them not in the Canon Tobie we passe not greatly neither do acknowledge those seauen Angels of whom he speaketh All that which was spoken of Raphael or which he speaketh of himself iâ— far differing from the holy Scriptures and it sauoureth strongly of superstition The place of Ecclesiasticus doth not much trouble me neither should I the sooner beleeue u DVR pag. 76. If you deâ—y free wilâ— to man by nature aâ—d that be cannot but sinne you establish the Fate of the Sâ—â—ickes WHIT. pag. 77. No more then vvhen vve say Angells necessarily doe good and diuels euer euill Againe vve deny not mans freewill to naturall and ciuill actions but to the duties of faith because till the sonne hath made him free he must needs be a seruant of sinne free will though he an hundred times should repeate that sentence Ecclesiast 15.17 Gen. 6.5 before man is life and death seeing that the x DVR The Scripture doth not teach that men haue lost free will by nature WHIT. p. 78. What then meaneth it 1. Cor. 2.14 If man cannot vnderstand the things of God and eternall life how can hee will them or doe them Phil. 2.13 The will and deede is wrought in vs by God Gen. 6.5 If hee can thinke nothing but euill where is free will Scripture teacheth that man lost his freedome by sinne the same thing teach the y DVR The Fathers doe not deny free vvill WHIT. pag. 79. August Enchirid cap. 30. Ambrose de vocat gent. cap. 9. Bernard de libr. arbâ—t doe deny it Fathers also and euery mans owne experience howsoeuer these words may be vnderstood of mankind as he was sometime in Adam For thus he writeth a little before Ecelesiâ—it 15. vers 14. He made man from the beginning and left him in the hand of his owne counsaile if he speake of the first condition and state of man and of his perfect and vncorrupt nature wherein he was created of the Lord he speaketh very true but if he made it now free for vs as we are naturall men to chuse or
cannot long continue But you now begin to presse your aduersaries somewhat more forceably and you demaund of them for example sake by what authority they maime and robbe the corpes of the Bible I answere we offer no violence to this body neâ—ther do we cut off any which doe appertain to the substance and perfection of it we dash out no part of it we pull away no member For to vse your owne words we do not cut out any true Canonicall Scriptures but cull out such as are not Canonical but foisted in and counterfeit But you would know who shal be iudge you make Caluin to answere for vs the holy Ghost and you suggesting that he giueth this answere to escape the iudgement of the Church if you enquire how we know these writings which we call Scriptures to be heauenly and giuen by the inspiration of God that is by what testimony we are perswaded that those writings are holy Scripture which are so called I would aske you with as much reason another question how know you the sonne is the sonne or how ye come not to doubt that God is God for we verely haue as much certeinty that thâ—se bookes are the sacred Scripture commended of the Lord to the Church written by the Prophets and Apostles proceeding from diuine authoritie as that the Moone is the Moone yea as wee are sure of any thing else which by vndoubted knowledge we are full assured of this answere Caluin also hath giuen you Iustit lib. 1. cap. 7. sect 4. cap. 8. toto writing that many things might be produced which would easily proue that if there be a God in heauen the Law the Prophets and the Gospell came from him yea and with many words at large he vrgeth it with most strong arguments such as may satisfie any reasonable man touching the authoritie and credit of the Scriptures There are in the bookes themselues proofes enough both certeine and perspicuous which will proue and demonstrate the credit of the Scriptures that no man need boubt of them But because the sense and reason of man is often times weake and easily distracted into diuers and doubtfull cogitations the inward and hidden testimony of the spirit must be had that men may firmely rest in the Scriptures For though outward testimonies will so conuince vs that for shame we cannot deny the Scriptures to be the word of God yet then only do we attaine a certeine and sauing ful assurance when the same spirit which writ and published them doth perswade our harts of the credit of them And this is that spirit which the Lord hath promised to his Church and which dwelleth in the harts of the faithfull and is as a seale vnto them he that hath not this spirit shall euer in himselfe be vncerteine and doubtfull though he heare the Church a thousand times What is the fault then you find Campian Caluin say you doth make the spirit Iudge thereby to escape the iudgement of the Church by whose authoritie all spirits are tried The iudgement of the Church ought not to differ from the iudgement of the spirit the same spirit gouerneth the whole h DVR What an absurd thing is this that you contemne the voice of the Church and allow your common people to iudge rather of the Scriptâ—res and giue all to the spirit when the Fathers haue obiected the Church against heretikes WHIT. pag. 109. We contemne not the voice of the first Church wherein these were written and from theÌ„ commended to succeeding Churches But pag. 108. we much regard not the voice of your Romish Church for as we know there is a God though it tell vs not so much so that the Scriptures are the word of God though it be silent and by the same grounds that your Church knoweth the Scriptures to be the Scriptures by the same proofes may euery priuate Christian know them pag. 111. If you know not that the grace of the spirit is necessary to discerne the Scriptures then reade these places John 14 26. 1. Iohn 2 26 27. 1 Cor. 2 14 10. Esay 51 16. Now the same spirit who wâ—it them seales them vp to vs without which some knowledge may be had of them bâ—t no faith we may acknowledge them but not certeinly beleeue them without the spirit And if the Fathers haue obiected the Church against heretikes in the like case we will do the same For the testimony of the spirit is not of validity to confute others but to confirme our selues Church and euery particular beleeuer But your Church knoweth not this spirit no maruell then if it dislike the iudgement of the spirit yet I would haue you take this for an answere once for all that the authority of the Scriptures doth not depend vpon the iudgement of the Church for let the Church iudge what it will yet can it neuer by all the authority it hath make the Canonicall bookes to be no Canonicall and that those which are not Canonicall should be had in reputation as Canonical The Scripture hath it owne proper authority in it selfe not borrowed froÌ„ another And as little can the Church add authority to the Scripture as it can to God the authour of it But say you how commeth it to passe that the Caluinists spirit alloweth six Epistles which the Lutheran spirit doth disallow you go in a ring making only the repetition of the same things without any proceeding Those Epistles the Lutherans i DVR That the Lutheâ—anâ— do not like these Epiâ—iles tâ—ey of Magdeburg Centur. 1. lib. 2. cap. 4. tell vs plainely WHIT. pag. 117. What is that to vs who thinke as honorablie of them as you do but if they by the example of auncient â—hurches haue spokeÌ„ somewhat hardly of those Epistles is there heere any such difference of â—pirits All things are not reueâ—led to all a like all haue not the like measure of the spirit If any be otherwise minded God will in his time reueâ—le â—t to him doe not reiect nor dash them out of the new Testament yea they acknowledge them they make vse of them in vnfoulding of controuersies they expound them in their schooles and churches and they reade them both priuately and publikely vpon many of them Luther hath written k DVR By the same reason if Luther should comment vpon certeine of Aesops fables and Illyricus vpon al then by their spirit they are certeinly receiued into the Canon WHIT. pag. 117. And why may not Aesops fables be in the Canon if your Church please seeing your VVolfangus Hermannus affirme the Scriptures are of no more authority then those fables without the authority of your Church But I adde if you would haue seene it that they vsed them in preaching in expounding Scriptures in deciding controuersies and did interpret them both priuately and publikely Commentaries Illyricus vpon all That of the authority of those Epistles in times past the Catholike Church made some doubt they
hasted into the Gourt hauing no promise from the Prince to rest vpon But Campian flie you rather to the Indians that you may take a suruey of your Popes new Prouince for our most wise Prince desires no such guests but banisheth you as farre as she can from her But now at length you returne thither whence you haue digressed and gloriouslie conclude this poynt concerning Councels saying The generall Councels make all for me the first last and middle You haue gotten an easie and speedie victorie I am almost perswaded that you are become another Caesar Vâ—ni vidi vici I came I sawe I ouercame but this is not to dart your Iaueling which you say is looped for the purpose I see words as it were tied together with strings or rather franticke speeches but as yet I discerne no speare either a Iauelin or a thongue or strength or which I rather beleeue all these are wanting vnto you Surely we of the Vniuersities Campian doe greatly desire to trie how skilfully you haue learned to tosse your speare and we hope it will come to passe that you being pierced with our darts will at length know and acknowledge your audacious temeritie and slothfull ignorance of this fight EDMVND CAMPIAN The fifth Reason which is the Fathers AS that famous Sirname of Christians increased first in a Act. 1â— Antioch so b 1. Cor. 12. Ephes 4.1 Cor. 14. Doctors that is very deepe Diuines and Prophets that is most famous Preachers first flourished there Our Lord himselfe prouided for his flocke in time to come such a sort of c Matth. 13.23 Scribes and wise men as were experienced in the kingdome of God bringing forth both old new things that is hauing God still both in Christ and Moses in the new and old Testament How mischieuous an act is it to expel with rebuke these men which were giuen vs by God for a speciall benefit The Aduersarie hath * This is false for we neuer hissed out any learned scribe expelled them For what cause for that if they had stood vpright he of necessity had fallen downe So soone as I throughlie perceiued that without any more adoo I desired to make not that flourishing fight which the common sort of people vse when they contend one with another in the open streetes but that seuere and sharpe combate by which we buckle one with another in your Philosophy schooles foot by foot man by man close ioyned together If we may once come to the Fathers the field is fought the wager wonne on our side For they are all ours assure as Gregory the 13. is a most louing Father to all the Churches children For to d S. Dion Areo pag. de quo vide Adon Treu. in Martyrel Adon. Turon Syng Suid. Metap omit diuers places which here and there dispersed being gathered together out of the auncient writings of the Fathers do very fitly and plainelie fortifie our faith we haue their whole bookes which of set purpose do expresly and copiously paint out liuely that selfe same Euangelicall religion which wee maintaine What orders of heauenly powers what sacrifices what solomne rites doth that two-fold Hierarchy of the Martyr S. Denys make knowne vnto vs That matter touched c Coment in 1.13 17. Deut. Item in cap. â—ab Luther so nigh the quicke that he affirmed this blessed mans writings to be most like to dreames and most pernicious f Dial. 5. 11. Caussaeus an obscure vpstart in Fraunce following the steppes of his Father Luther blushed not to tearme this Apostle S. * This Denys is counterfeice and forged Denys borne in a noble countrie an old dotard g Cent. 2. cap. 10. Inst lib. 1. cap. 13 num 29. The Magdeburgeans which lately set forth the Ecclesiasticall historie in Centuries were greatly grieued at S. * This Ignatius is counterfeite Ignatius so was Caluin also Insomuch that these bench whistlers pried out certaine foule blemeshes and vnsauorie speeches in his Epistles In these mens conceits also S. Ireneus writ one foolish toy and S. Clement who was author of the booke called Stromatum yeelded out of his works cockle and dregges And the residue h Cent. 2. cap. 5. vide Cent. 1. lib. 2. cap. 10. Seqq. of the Fathers of this age which were in very deed * They were Apostolike men yet they did not commit to writing all the things the Apostles did Apostolike men left vnto their posteritie blasphemous and monstrous doctrine In i Lib. de Prascript contra Haâ— Tertullian they greedily catch at that fault which being told therof by vs they with vs also detest But let them call to mind the booke which he writ de Praescriptionibus wherwith the heretikes of our time had so sound a blow was neuer hither to reprehended by the Church How sufficientlie and euidently hath * This Hyppolitus is counterfeite Hyppolitus k Orat. de consum Secul Bishop of Portua foreshewed the raigne of Luthers heresies which was a strong pillar in Antichrists building And for that cause they call him amost childish scrible a masker That l Iuel c. causs Dial. 8. 11. criticall French man Caussaeus and the m Cent. 3. cap. 4. Magdeburgeans do call S. Cyprian who was the flower and honor of Africke a blocke head a man cast out of Gods sight a deprauer of the true doctrine of Penance why what hath he done he hath writ for sooth one booke of Virginity and another of those that are Relapsed and certaine treatises of the vnity of the Church yea such Epistles also vnto Cornelius Bishop of Rome that except this blessed Martyr be disgraced Peter Martyr the Vermillian and all his confeder aâ—s must bee taken for worse then adulternous Church-robbers And lest I should stand too long vpon particularties aft the Fathers of that age are n Cent. 3. cap. 4. generally * This is false for none doe condemne or reiect the Fathers of this age condemned as men that haue corrupted wonderfully the sincere doctrine of Penance Hoâ— I pray you the Austerity for sooth of the o Canones Poenitentiâ— veâ—eres Canons which at that time was vsed doth highly displease this plausible sect which are fitter for Chambers then for Churches and is accustomed to tickle sensuall eares and to so â—cushions to euery elbow wherein I say wherein hath the next age offended forsooth S. Chrysostome and other Fathers of that time haue fouly darkened iustification by faith only S. Gregory Nazianzen whom auncient writers for honor sake haue Sirnamed Theologus 1. the Diuine by Caussaeus iudgement was but a q Dia. 6.7.8 brabler and knew not what to say S. Ambrose was bewitched of an euill spirit S. r Beza in Act. Apost ca. 23. Stancha li. de Trin. Hierome is as * This which concerneth S. Hierome is all false deeply damned in hell as the diuell himselfe
because he was iniurious to the Apostle a blasphemer a naughty man a wicked fellow Gregorie Massonius esteemeth more of one Caluin then of an hundred Augustines a hundred is but a few Å¿ Lib. cent Henrie 8. Reg. Augâ— Martin Luther careth not a button if there were against him a thousaÌ„d Augustines a thousand Cyprians a thousand Churches I thinke it will be to no purpose to wade any further in this matter for who may maruell if they that thus raile against these worthy men haue also been saucy against Optatus Athanasius Hilarius both Cyrils Epiphanius Basill Vincentius Fulgentius Leo and Gregorie the Romane And yet if there may be any iust defence of an vniust cause I do not deny but the Fathers haue wheresoeuer you reade in their workes such matter as may cause the Aduersarie to take pepper in the nose so long as they follow their owne humours For they that cannot away with prescript daies of abstinence how is it likely that they can abide S Basill S. Gregorie Nazianzene S. Leo and S. Chrysostome who haue set forth in print g zâ—ch 13. Praef. in cent 5. very godly sermons concerning Lent and Ember daies as things vsually at that time obserued among Christian people Can those men chuse which haue sold their soules for riches bodily pleasure daintie fare and fine apparrell but beare deadly hatred to S. Basill S. Chrysostome S. Hierome and S. Augustine whose excellent bookes of the order rule and vertuous life of * But these Monkes were most vnlike to ours Monkes are vsually in euery mans band May they that haue intruded seruill will into man that haue cut off all Christian funerals that haue set on fire the reliques of Saints continue friendship with S. Augustine who hath penned three whole bookes of mans * But in these bookes he doth not establish freewill freewill t Lib. 22. de Ciuit. Dei cap. 8. ser de diuers 34. sequent one booke of care to be taken for the dead one long chapter of that his noble worke De ciuitat Dei concerning miracles wrought at the Churches Chappels and sepulchers of holy Martyrs and certaine Sermons of the same matter Can such as measure faith by their own captiousnes refraine from anger towards S. Augustine of whose penning there is extant a notable o Cont. epist Man quam vocant fundam c. 4. Epistle against Manachie wherein he confesseth that for his faith he will cleaue vnto * Yet in that very place Augustine preferred truth before all these Antiquitie vnity continuall succession and to the Church which by prescription alone challengeth amoÌ„g so many heresies the title of Catholike u Li. 1. cont Paâ—men Optatus * This Optatus is an old Father newly printed Bishop of Miletan confuteth such as tooke part with Donatus by the Catholike coÌ„munity Their wickednes he accuseth by the decree of the Pope Melchiades he reproueth x Lib. 2. their heresie by the succession of the Bishops of Rome He displaieth their y Lib. 3. madnes by their dafiling both of the blessed Eucharist and also of the holy oyle He abhorreth their z Lib. 6. sacriledge in breaking downe of holy Altars whereupon Christs body is laid and also in polluting of the Chalices which contained Christs blood I would gladly know what they thinke of Optatus who is commended by S. a Aug. lib. 1 cont Parmen De Vnit. ca. 16. lib. 3 de Doct. Christ c. 40. Augustine as a worthy and Catholike Bishop not inferiour to S. Ambrose and S. Cyprian and whom S. b Fulgent li. 2. ad Monim Vide epist. Synod Alex. ad Feli. 2. Fulgentius also recordeth to haue been an holy man and faithfull Interpretor of S. Paul not vnlike vnto S. Augustine and S. Ambrose They reade S. Athanasius Creed in their Churches Do they for all that beare him any good will who hath highly commended as an auncient writer in an exact booke S. Antony that hermite of Aegypt and also hath humbly appealed with the Councell of * A counterfeit Epistle Alexandria vnto the Sea Apostolike of S. Peter How often doth S. Prudentius in his Hymnes pray vnto the blessed Martyrs what Hymnes doth he endite in their praise how often doth he worship the King of Martyrs at their ashes and bones will they allow of this man S. Hierome in the defence of Reliques and honor of Saints writeth against Vigillantius and for the preheminence of virginitie against Iouinian will they tolerate this An high solemne feast was kept by c Vide Epist de Ambros ad Epist It al. Fom 3. Silâ—â— tiusdem Amb. Epist. 85. Item Serm. 91. S. Ambrose in the honor of his Patrones Geruasius and Protasius to the great reproach of the Arrians which act the holy d August lib. 22. de ciuie Dei cap. 1. Fathers haue highly commended and God himselfe adorned with many miracles will they be friends with S. Ambrose c Gregâ—r Tur. lib. de gloria Mar. cap. 46. Metaphrast S. Gregorie the great that Apostle of * Gregorie the great was neither our Apostle nor an Apostle at all ours is flat on our side and for that title is hated of our Aduersaries whom Caluin in his fury doth deny to be brought vp in the f Iust. lib. 1. cap. 11. n. 5. schoole of the holy Ghost because hee called holiâ— Images the books of vnlearned people A whole day would not be enough for me to reckon all the Epistles Sermons Homilies Orations Treatises and disputations of the old Fathers wherein of set purpose both grauely and eloquently they haue confirmed our Catholike doctrine So long as these bookes of these Fathers shall be sold at the Stationers shop in vaine are the hauens and sea coasts watched so narrowly to no purpose are houses coffers and chests straightly searched to no end are penall proclamations set vpon so many gates For none of our late writers neither Harding nor Sanders nor Allen nor Stapleton nor Bristol do more vehemently inueigh against these their new found dreames then those Fathers do whom I haue named which things when I well considered my courage began to rise I had a desire to fight in which conflict on which side soeuer the aduer sarie shall start except he yeeld due honor vnto God he shall haue the foyle if he allow of the Fathers he is caught if he disallow of them he is no body Thus it fell out when I was a yong student at Oxford * This word Bishop Iewel did neuer eat neither wil we euer renouÌ„ce Iohn Iewel the captaine of English Caluinists challenged in most bragging sort all Catholikes at Paules Crosse in London vrging and alledging like an hypocrite all the Fathers that euer flourished within sixe hundred yeares after Christ. Certeine worthy men which then for religion liued as banished men in the Vniuersity of Lonan thoug through the iniquity of the time they
gainsay that this Denys cannot be the partie you report him to be You then haue no reason to be angrie with Luther or Caussaeus if they handled this a DVR You say that Denyâ— is counterfeite but proue it by no reason But Origen Nazianzene Zophâ—ine Archbishop of Hierusalem Damascene Nicephorus Euthemius Dionysius Archbishop of Alexaâ—dria acknowledge his bookes him to haue been a disciple of S. Paul WHIT. pag. 357. But I say that Antiquitie was altogether ignorant of his bookes which could not be if they bad been written of Denys Arcâ—pagita for Eusâ—biu diligently searching out and setting downe all auncient writers and all thâ—â—r bookes and Epistles which they writ mentioneth not â—im nor his workes neither doe any 〈◊〉 the Greeke and Latin Fathers speake of him But who can thinke that the bookes of a disciple of Saint Paul should be vnknowne and not highly esteemedâ— of all in those daies Besides he citeth the Epistles of Igâ—â—tius as also the Gospell and Reuelation of S. Iohn which must needs be written diuers yeares after the death of Denys Arâ—â—pagita hee writeth an Epistle to Polycarpus and calleth him a ruler of the Church when at his detah Polycarpus must needs be very yong for Denys was slaine Anno Dom 96. Polycarpe died 1â—6 being but 86. yeares of age he calleth Timothy his sonne who was conuerted before euer that Arâ—â—pagita vvas he acknowledgeth that his maisters had their learning from the Apostles doth he not thereby deny himselfe S. Paules scholer finally the Church Hierarchie and all the names of the officers reckoned vp by him were neuer knowne in the Apostles time For your authors they are all new and late writers but two The first Origen whom Erasmus denieth Annot. in Act. 17. once to haue made mâ—otion of him in all his writings neither euer doth Nazianzene counterfeit somewhat roughly and censured him freely Where you say Caluin and the writers of the Centuries were offended with Ignatius Ignatius I confesse they had iust cause of offence If heretikes alleaged him to bee a patron of a wicked and detestable opinion Caluin might with reason and discretion reiect him how aptly and truly he was by them alleaged I cannot tell let them look to it Howsoeuer it be the truth ought not by his authoritie to be borne downe whose credit is little if any at all you are not ignorant what the iudgement of all the learned is those Epistles of Ignatius Eusebius indeed makes mention of some of his Epistles and Hierome of others but now many more goe vnder his name which they haue not mentioned Hierome b DVR If diuers of those things there cited out of him bee not to bee found hovv follovveth it that those works of his vvhich are extant bee forged and noue of his WHIT. pag. 360. From thence verely it will follow that his works are not perfect yea many things are found in his Epistles which are incredible to haue been taught in those daies as the strict keeping of Lent and fasting vpon the Sabbath daies yea it was but latelie that these Epistles were printed and published and so of the lesse credit and authority also reports a saying of his Hierâ—n Dial. 3. con Pel. Theod. Dial. 3. and Theodoret another which are not found in those Epistles which are caried about what would you haue more Gratian himselfe fauours not ouermuch this your Ignatius You see then of how obscure suspected and vncertaine reputation are these two which you place in the forefront of your armie You are offended that the Censors as you call them vpbraide Irenaeus as in some thing fantasticall We vse not to speake reprochfully of Irenaus whom we confesse to haue been both holy and learned but what is this to the purpose If Iraneus haue written something foolishly must be therefore by and by be wholy yours And if some where we haue noted his opinion as not true and sound doe we therefore reiect all his works Is this your manner of disputing Campian is this your skirmishing are you of opinion that neuer any word passed from Irenaeus vnaduisedly or which might iustly be tearmed vnreasonable Then tell c DVR You that acknovveledge and admit nothing but the Scriptures can by no argument confute this errâ—r WHIT. p. 362. What may worse beseeme a liuine then thus to speake What thinke you of these places Christ when he began to preach the Gospell was about thirtie yeares of age Luke 3.23 After his Baptisme Iohn maketh mention of three Pasleouers and that in the third he was put to death Is not the time then very plainely set downe and indeede what can be more plaine and casie Hence we may obserue that the Fathers haue plainely erred where you would hardly beleeue any man could erre me Campian Lib. 2. cap. 39.40 how Christ preached onely one yeare yet was baptized the thirtieth yeare of his age and died the fiftieth what shall we beleeue that Christ taught onely one yeare and that the fortieth yeare will you denie this to be a very new strange and almost franticke noueltie Besides that many write Irenaeus to haue been one of them whom the Fathers call Millenaries thinke you that was not a franticke opinion And can you doubt of Clemens whether hee hath sometimes sowne Tares what call you that where he denieth that Christ indeed did either hunger or thirst Againe that Christ taught but one yeere which he had of Irenaus Againe Clement Stromat lib. 3. idem lib. 1. idem lib. 5. that the Philosophers in hel expected the comming of Christ being taught by owne mouth beleeued Wil you deny those to be Tares and many of this kind are his to be found in the worthiest writers of that age If you denie it bring me one whom I will not conuince to haue erred by your owne iudgement You dare not say Tertul. we haue wronged Tertullian But you will vs to remember that the book of Prescriptions was neuer taxed which for ought I remember neuer was though I confesse that writing which you name is notable in which many things are written very diuinely against your Church d DVR But you tell vs not any one particular whereby this may appeare WHIT. pag. 365. I suppose you neuer read this booke or else you would not make doubt of it Is any thing more against your traditions then that hee pronounceth a curie to them that shall bring any doctrine but the selfe same which the nations receiued from the Apostles and they from Christ himselfe And that men cannot be otherwise perswaded of the things of faith then from the writings of faith when he gathereth from Christ sending of his Apostles that no Ministers are else to be receiue but such as Christ hath ordeined when whatsoeuer is later brought is forraine and false when he wâ—â—â—eth that faith must be built and borne vp vpon the writings of the Law and of the Prophets
the Euangelists and Apostles I wonder you are not ashamed of Hippolytus of whom Harding himselfe was almost ashamed Hippolyt Thinke not that we are ought moued with e DVR VVhy do you reiect this booke of Hippolyte as counterfeite Hierome affirmeth that he was a Bishop and hath written many Commentaries vpon the Scriptures WHIT. pag. 367. Will it therefore follow that this booke is not counterfeit nay it is the rather forged because Hierom doth not number it amongst his bookes Hyppolitus was a very worthy man of whom Eusebius Hierom Theodoret Nicephorus haue made verie honorable mention But this booke is childish in the beginning and in the whole altogether vnanswerable to his eloquence and iudgement authors of so small credit so lately drawne but of darknes as they scarse yet haue learned to looke vpon the light For what was this Hippolytus He writ you say of Antichrist But how worthily that foolish booke of Hippolytus which a certaine man I know not who of late daies published gesseth that the Diuell is Antichrist and faineth many other things which neither can be true nor were euer esteemed for true And yet you marueile we set him so light whom no man regards or reads or almost knowes I can giue you good leaue to recken him for your owne and if you will let him haue a better note in your armie The accusation concerning Cyprian Cyprian is more haynous whom all men reuerence for his singular faith and excellent learning But Caussaeus tearmeth him senselesse and without God They of Magdenburge call him a corrupter of penance Shall I be tied to take vpon me and defend euery speech which any man hath at any time vttered This Caussaeus I neuer saw nor before this euer heard of him But in as much as you so odiously accuse him I suppose him to bee some learned and godly man Vnto that he saith of Cyprian I answere that which I remember I haue read in f DVR That Cyprian which Nazianzene speaketh of was not our Cyprian the Father of the Church WHIT. pag. 367. Nazianzene certainely speaketh of the same Cyprian for see how hee describes him He did not only gouerne the Church of Carthage and all Affricke but the vvhole VVest and almost the East the Southerne and Northerne parts how thinke you is it not the same Cyprian Nazianzene viz. that he was in his youth dissolute and giuen to much vice and worshipped Diuels and vsed the helpe of Diuels He was saith Nazianzene a worshipper of Diuels and after a disciple of Christ. Nazian de Cypri Your vnreasonablenes forceth me to mention those things which I had rather haue concealed For in the Fathers imperfections you sticke fast like a burre and cease not to rub vp the remembrance of those things which you should doe better not once to touch If these things which Nazianzene reporteth of Cyprian be true then Caussaeus might say that Cyprian at that time was foolish and godlesse For I cannot thinke that Caussaeus would write so of him but in regard of those times or that any man would conceiue so iniuriously of that godly Martyr whereas they of Magdenburge complaine that hee corrupted the doctrine of repentance therein they forge against him no new accusation but rather disclose that which all men know to haue been too true Cyprian wrote some thing of Repentance very vnseasonably and vndiscreetly and not he g DVR O singular impudencie O intollerable arrogancie what haue all the Fathers in that age erred so sousely in so great a matter As if they were ignorant that the works of repentance had any vertue any where else but from the merits and blood of Christ. WHIT. pag. 369. What neede all this heate It had been your part to haue shewed that the Fathers who then liued haue spoken nothing vnfitly of repentance so had you confuted that I charge them with which your heare will not cure And what if the Fathers haue thought that mens works haue all their vertue and power from the merit of Christ will it thence follow they haue spoken nothing vnfitly of repentance and works As if Christ by his death had onely merited that we might by our works and merits deserue eternall life or that they who hold the foundation may not build timber or haie vpon it alone but all the holy Fathers of that time were tainted with that error For being desirous by seuere lawes to limit and restraine the euill manners of men they made the greatest part of Repentance to consist in certaine outward disciplines which they appointed which seuere censuring of sinne sharpe punishing of wickednes might happely be borne withall but when they thought the punishment of sinne to be discharged Gods iustice satisfied freedome from sinne and certeine forgiuenes with righteousnes hereby to be procured herein they diminished the power of Christs death they attributed too much to their owne inuentions and in a word depraued the doctrine of repentance because our sinnes are clensed and remoued by no offices or workes of ours but only by the blood and passion of Christ And so your obiection of Repentance is answered We doe not for all this deny the workes of Cyprian nor reiect the bookes of any Father of that age as you falsely affirme seeing both he and they agree with vs in the greatest questions but this is the priuiledge of you and your fellowes that you euen greedily hunt after and pursue whatsoeuer is faulty in any author as if all the Fathers errors serued to make vp the body and faith of your religion Something you say Cyprian wrote to Cornelius which if we giue credit vnto then Peter Martyr and his cōfederats must be held for worse thē adulterous sacrilegious but what that is I cannot so much as couiecture I know that Cyprian sent many letters to Cornelius but none of them accuse vs either of adultery or sacriledge neither can you out of those letters alleadge any thing to our preiudice or your aduantage but this is euer your manner to proue nothing clearely and distinctly but only to name the Fathers and from their names to raise certaine rouing vncertaine suspitions That which you write of Chambers and pillowes I passe ouer as nothing else but scoffing and reproachfull taunts such as is common in euery varlets mouth Now you come to the next age and heere you mention Chrysostome Nazianzene Ambrose and Hierome But to what purpose I pray you Chrysostom for what if Luther do censure Chrysostome sharply because by too much aduauncing our works and merits he obscureth the righteousnes of faith what though Caussaeus find some thing fabulous in Nazianzene Nazian h DVR You freely graunt that Chrysostome Nazianzene Ambrose and Hierome are on Campians side and yet you pleasantly demaund are these Fathers wholy yours we who are then true sonnes doe not challenge them as halfe Fathers but wholy our Fathers WHIT. pag.
offended with Basil Naziancene Leo and Chrysostome which haue published excellent Sermons of Lent Christ ordeined no set and ordinary fasts in the Gospell k DVR Who hath but so much as saluted the Fathers and knoweth not this to be salfe for the obseruation of Lent is most auncient and ordained by the Apostles WHIT. pag. 371. I deny it not to be most auncient but not instituted by the Apostles for Apollonius writeth that Montanus first made lawes for let and certaine fasts and Tertullian when hee was become a Montanist writeth as much in his booke wherein he defendeth the fasts of Montanus Againe the Apostles neuer put any religion in choise and change of meats Rom. 14.17 Coll. 2 16. Tit. 1 1â— and so ordeined not Lene Lastly the Churches of the Apostles differed much in this fast both in their times in their kinds of meat as Eusebius â—ocrates record which would neuer haue bin if it had bin Apostolical at least as Papists do affirme who take in for a truth that those Churches would faithfully persist in the Apostles decrees Lent was appointed long after and the manner of obseruing it in those times was not one the same in all Churches We both allow and vse publike and Christian fasts which are fitted to the time and the Churches occasions as for your appointed and yearely solemne fasts we do with good reason reiect them because they are full of superstition and iniurious vnto Christian liberty Our iudgement of fasting is the same which Augustine hath taught August Epist 86. I find it not set downe in any Commandement of the Lord or his Apostles what daies we ought to fast what not Augustine then knew not these your set yearely ceremonies of fasting not your Lenten fast which hath a certeine time and number of daies prescribed Further you say they that haue set their soules to sale for gold lust excesse and worldly ostentation how can they be but most opposite to Basil Chrysostome Hierome and Augustine whose bookes of the profession of Monkes are in euery mans hands what will you censure all to be couetous lustfull gluttonous or ambitious that are not Monkes backe with that foot you were best for feare of your head for neither the Pope nor his Cardinals and Bishops hold it either necessary or conuenient for them to lay aside their abundant wealth continuall pleasures their dainty fare their kingly honor and thrust themselues into a Monasterie whosoeuer liueth after their fashion cannot be well affected to Basil nor any man that is holy l DVR VVhen you are ouercome by the truth you slander our liues and speake euill of our persons WHIT. pag. 377. I do not slander you nor detract from you the world hath vnderstood long agoe what manner of men you vvere If you be grovvne better I should be glad of it But I knovv men haue iudged othervvise of this order and such as did not hate your Monasticall life For the Romish Cardinals and Priors did vvrite thus to the Pope himself There is another abuse amongst the orders of religious men for many are so deformed and out of order that they are a great scandale to the people and hurt much by their example VVe thinke that all orders ought to be abolished For they are altogether so drowned in sensuality and excesse making themselues drudges vnto their ambitions banquets and delights And to conclude in the whole course of their liues so behauing themselues as becommeth better sensuall and voluptuous persons proceeding out of the gardens of Epicures then graue teachers out of Christs Schoole Who knoweth not that the whole world crieth shame vpon you and hath done continually and most deseruedly you for all that blush not to lay those things to our charge which are well inough knowne to bee your owne fault your Prelates and Monkes whose goodly order and straite rule of seuere discipline you report differ as much from other men as the Tarrentines were wont to affirme that they excelled all others who giuing themselues wholy ouer to pleasures while the most tooke great paines and alwaies did something whereby to liue thought their life the only true life Such is and hath bin your life that others must seeme not to liue if that be to liue which you haue esteemed But what need I answere you any more of fasting and Monkish orders which haue not one Monke in your whole Church any thing resembling those of auncient time neither do you obserue the old manner of fasting but you goe on and vpbraide vs with fouler matters They that haue brought a bondage vpon mans will which haue taken away Christian funerals which haue burned Saints reliques can they say you be well pleased with Augustine we Campion haue wronged no Saints we haue neither burned their reliques nor taken away their funerals m DVR Therefore you haue taken away the reliques of the Saints and the funerals of Christians as superstitions and iniurious to the maiestie of God WHIT. pag. 370. Are you so vvithout iudgement that you cannot distinguish betvvixt things and the superstitious vse of them It is not these not any comely buriall vve dislike but Popish pompcions funerals and impious vvorshipping of reliques only we could not suffer any prophane superstition iniurious to the Maiestie and glorie of God and for this we haue the direction of God himselfe being our patterne whom we follow and Augustine also herein consenteth with vs But we haue captiuated the will of man and then you say how can we be well affected vnto Augustine well inough why not for say you he writ three bookes of free will A most witles and ridiculous collection Augustine writ three bookes of freewill ergo Augustine affirmeth that men haue freewill If that reason be currant then this also Augustine writ a booke of two soules against the Manichees also a booke of lying another of the quantity of the soule ergo Augustine defendeth two soules in a man ergo he praised lying ergo he attributeth greatnes quantity to the soule I pray you what difference is there I graunt Augustine writ those bookes you mention but they ouerthrow not our opinion who affirme that the will of man is in bondage if euer you had perused those bookes you would neuer haue affirmed it nor once named the bookes in this matter Augustine writ these bookes against the Manichees wherein he disputeth not of mans freewill which is the point in controuersie but of the cause of sinne which proceeded from freewill and he entituled those bookes of freewill because in them he intendeth to shew that the originall and beginning of sinne is to be found in mans freewill not in God This you might easily haue learned out of his retractations for thus he writeth Retract lib. 1.1 q. The discourse was vndertaken for them that deny sin to haue his originall from the free action of our will affirming that from this
would follow that God himselfe the author of nature is culpable And so proceedeth vtterly denying that he had any purpose in those bookes to speake of that will which is made free by Gods grace And whatsoeuer in these books passed his pen which seemed to fauour the Pellegians then Patrons of freewill as you are now all that he carefully collecteth out of the whole worke and cleareth it from their cauils Haue we any cause to be offended with Augustine which in this question is not against vs And that you may plainly perceiue how indiscreetly you alledged these bookes of free-will marke what hee writeth of the will of man in those same bookes n DVR Wherto tendeth this but to bewray your ignorāce all Catholikes beleeue that the will of man though free is able to do nothing to merit heauen by but by the grace of God And you are ignorant that the freedome of will consisteth in this that by no necessitie it is carried to either part WHIT. pag. 382. Pelagians in former time beleeued as much But as Pelagius affirmed that the will was only helped with grace and not made good by grace so you teach that no new will is infused but the natural is helped and as it were vnloosed by grace which is not much from Pelagianisme for both of you defend that the liberty of wil remaineth in mans corrupt nature that it need not be giuen him from aboue but only by the helpe of grace to be drawne out of certeine difficulties in which the corruption of sinne had left it And as for my ignorance I confesse it and thinke it more learned then your knowledge for if those who do things necessarily do them not freely then neither God nor the diuel worketh not freely for God worketh well and the diuell euill necessarily So you see necessity is not opposed to freewill for not necessity but force and compulsion taketh away the freedome of the will Hold thou fast saith Augustine this principall of piety Delibere Arbit 61.2 cap. 20. that no good thing happens vnto thee either when thou thinkest or vnderstandest or any way imaginest which is not from God And this was Augustines constant opinion of freewill after that being stirred by the Pellagians he throughly vnderstood the question viz. that he iudged it to be vtterly lost and gone o DVR The meaning of the place is this that man so lost his freewill that be lost himselfe yet so as no man in his right wits will deny but he is a man still WHIT. pag. 384. You graunt as much as we desire for as man lost himselfe and yet remained a man but not such as he was good iust holy indued with perfection but cleane changed so the free will of man was lost not that no wil remained but that it was changed from good to euill for we say not there is remaining no freewill at all but no good wil as we affirme not there is no man at all remaining but no good man Man saith he by abusing his free-will lost both it and himselfe Enchir. 3. But yet further you vrge Augustine against vs for say you they that make their captious deuises the rule of their faith must not they bee offended with Augustine which hath an excellent Epistle against Manicheus An Epistle Campian do you call it it was euer accounted a booke but what is there in that Epistle as you call it against vs in which he professeth himselfe to agree with Antiquity vnity perpetuall succession and with that Church which alone amongst so many heresies hath attained vnto the name Catholike by prescription We also agree with that Church which hath all these And yet to these must be added as Augustine saith in the same place sincere wisdome and truth else all the other bind vs not for they are of no value without that wisdome but this wisdome and truth though without these is of it selfe to bee preserred before all things so saith Augustine Cont. Fundam cap. 4. if the truth appeare manifestly so as it cannot be doubted of it alone is more to be esteemed then p DVR Augustine affirmeth that these cannot be without the truth WHIT. pag. 387. Nay Augustine sheweth the contrarie for if truth cannot be separated from these he had spoken very vnfitly when he said he preferred the truth before all these If you can take or rightly challenge the possessiō of truth in the next place you may inquire of Antiquity Vnity Succession all those reasons that keepe me in the Catholike Church Thus then Augustine setteth more by the truth it selfe alone and sincere wisdome then all those things you mention Antiquity Vnity Succession and we perceiuing this truth and wisdome so manifestly in our Churches that none that will see the truth can doubt whether we hold the truth or no do willingly giue you free liberty to bragge whilest you list of antiquity vnity succession without the truth There is then as you see no cause why we should be angry with Augustine either now or before But at length you leaue Augustine and call out Optatus Bishop of Miletum of whom you say you desire to know what our opinion is I verily thinke he was a good Father and very like vnto Augustine and I take the things to be true which many worthy men haue said in his commendation But he disproued the Donatists by the communion of the Catholike Church Why should he not or what doth that cōcerne vs Augustine also obserued the same course and it was a good motiue that the communion of the Church should be obiected to the schismaticall Donatists which seditiously without cause separated themselues from the Church But wee deny your Church to be Catholike and therefore you cannot thus conuince vs though Optatus might therby confute the Donatists It must first appeare that it is the Church before we can be conuicted of schisme The q DVR So indeed Caluin answereth but it will not serue your turne for Opratus proueth himself to be in the Catholike Church because he ioyned himselfe to Saint Peters chaire WHIT pag. 388. And what call you Peters chaire the externall seate or the succession of Bishops you shall neuer proue it and the contrary I cen easily obiect out of Optatus himselfe Optatus calleth Syritius Bishop of Rome his fellow and the companion of other Bishops who held a sound and Catholike iudgement With all those Syricius agreed in one society and fellowship by their letters sent one to another as witnesses of their consenting in doctrine and lawfull ordination Optatus then proueth that he was a Catholike because he kept the Catholike confession and coniunction with Syrrcius and other Bishops Finally his argument was good against the Donatists who did separate themselues from the communion of the Catholike Church while they consented not with these Churches where the doctrine of the Apostles and a lawfull ordination of Bishops did
the Iewes â—innikeâ— and Idolaters but out of the schooles of Christians which may not be polluted with Images the schoole of the holy Ghost nor found y DVR You shevv your ignorance or impudency vvhen you knovv not or deny that vvhich is euery vvhereto be read among the Fathers as in Theodoret Domasen Augustine Gregory Nissen Metaphrastes Athanasius and others WHIT. pag. 399. These testimonies do rather shew your rashnes desire to deceiue for they are partly faired as that of Gregory Nissen and Athanasius partly not to the purpose by them I vnderstand that Images were made but they proue not that they were placed in the churches worshipped Your reason concludeth not There were Images among the ChristiaÌ„s before the times of Gregory therfore they placed them in their churches to teach the people and to be worshipped of them with holy worship it in the books of the Fathers that were before him and thus at length haue you finished this longe catalogue of the Fathers The reason I would faine know that moued you to go thorough them on this manner For what are you so blockish your selfe to thinke or hope you that any others will like of this kind of reasoning viz. Luther Caluin and their confederates doe write that Irenaus Tertullian Cyprian Chrysostome Augustine Hierome Ambrose Gregory Basil and Naziâ—â—zen do otherwiles erre in some questions in this or that booke and they saw not the true meaning of some Scripture but were sometimes deceiued that is they were men therefore they banish reiect and condemne all these Fathers Is this your meaning Campian why then do you your selues being verie often by plaine authorities of the Fathers coÌ„uinced deny flatly that you are tyed to the authority of any father and from them you appeale to the iudgment of the Church Would you not thinke your self hardly dealt withal if hence I should inferre that you disallow the Fathers whole volumes But this is the issue of your disputation and the marke whereat all this your discourse aymeth namely that because we dislike some things in the Fathers which in their writings cannot be defended therefore we violate all we offer great wrong and reproach to the Fathers we commit a hainous and vnhard-of wickednes Thinke not Campian our Vniuersitie to be so childish that they cannot discerne the indifferencie of our proceeding herein from your vniust calumniation The Fathers wee esteeme highly wee peruse them daily we commend them to the reading of all such as exactly and diligently studie Diuinitie By this meanes we encrease our knowledge and are better furnished with armour of defence against you You are afraide to want time and therefore you omit many things Epistles Sermons Homilies Orations Works Disputations of Fathers by which the Catholikes opinions are confirmed Some fragments perhaps say you throwne in corners which without much paines and wearines you could not collect yet your fellowes of late yeares haue diligently sought out and published Whilest they say you are to be solde at the Stationers so long our mens bookes are in vaine prohibited we are sorry you should write such things as we must of necessitie restraine your bookes are such as it behooueth vs to stoppe their passage vnlesse we would suffer the State to be stirred to sedition the Church in danger of heresie and mens minds filled with cursed opinions For if Magistrates ought carefully to preuent lest the infection of the plague be from other places brought into their cities much more care is to be had that pestilent and pernicious bookes bee nor openly spread abroad out of which simple and vnlearned men doe sucke poyson of deadly error Neither are we the first that haue taken this course You may remember in Queene Maries time that they proceeded by marshall law against all those with whom any of our bookes were found If this were in vs a matter worthie of death so that we were by and by drawne to punishment as men guiltie of high treason and that without any iudâ—â—â—al proceedings small reason haue you to looke that your bookes now should haue such free libertie to bee euery where publikelie solde We take order that the bookes of the holy Fathers are brought vnto vs from euery matte we buie them we haue them in our priuate studies and publike Liberarie a woâ— place them in open view that they be knowns nor onely by face but by dailie familiaricie Where you affirme that neither Sanders nor Harding nor Allen nor Stapleton nor Bristol doe more â—â—gerly inneigh against those dreames then the Fatherd before mentioned you haue added this saying as an ouerplus to the things that went before These your old souldiers haue imployed in this case whatsoeuer either reading or leysure or cunning or wit or diligence or malice could supply vnto them and for all this haue gained nothing and hope you that are not worthy to be compared with these to performe that wherein they haue failed yet you said that thinking of these things your courage increased and you desired the combate I bewaile Campian your rashnes and foolish hardines which will needs take vpon you the patronage of a desperate cause with the vndoubted losse of your credit and safety and I wish that the day may once come wherin you may make triall of your strength in the combate which you desire Iohn Iewel say you challenged the Catholikes when you were a young student calling vpon and desiring the helpe of the Fathers as many as flourished 600. yeares after Christ That worthy man did that he knew himselfe able to performe he had read ouer all the Fathers with speciall iudgement and diligence hee saw how you deceiued the ignorant he had a care to preserue his countrimen from your dangerous error And hereupon without any boasting as you would haue it but trusting only in the power of God and the truth of the cause he calleth forth all the generation of Papists vnto this triall viz. if they could confirme their opinions by the holy Scriptures or by the witnes of Fathers and Councels they should ouercome if they failed they should confesse themselues were vanquished Certeine renowmed men say you liuing as Exiles as Loâ—ane entertaine thâ— offer and allow of the condition Harding was the captaine of these he aduentured himselfe hand to hand in this combate but how worthily performed he the condition Iâ—wel calleth for Fathers Harding produceth certeine Clements Abdies Martials Hippolyes Amphilochytes and others of this rancke Fathers of worshipfull antiquitie If all the auncient Fathers of the Church be as you bragge of your side why should Harding turne his backe so cowardly bringing in for witnesses in a most waighty cause wherin we demaunded the iudgement of antiquitie a company of vpstart bastards I know not fromwhence whom no man before had saluted seene or heard of passing by of purpose the knowne and truly noble Fathers Is this the reuerend antiquity you talke of must wee haue these
fathers themselues For after you had said what you could remember touching the fathers that you might shew you esteemed their sayings as diuine Oracles because you saw that was too slender and that no man would iumpe with you in that point you now indeuour by certaine foundations to fortifie and strengthen the authoritie of the Fathers Now the strength and as it were the bond and sinewes of this disputation is this a DVR Campian doth not dispute so but say he do what reproue you for he speaketh not of one Father but of the consent of all vvho flourished in one age whom Saint Paul saith Christ hath made Pastors and teachers of his Church Eph. 4.11 WHIT. pag. 408. Then as you confesse I swarued not much from his sense But thinke you the reason is of force The auncient Fathers haue diligently read and searched the Scriptures therefore they neuer erred in their interpretation If iâ— hold in the Fathers why not in others vvhich do search the Scriptures as vvell as they vvhich if you once grant you ouerturne your owne cause And though they were Pastors of the Church yet vvere there many other Pastors and teachers of the Church vvho either vvrit nothing at all or their vvritings are perished so that vvhat they deliuered vve possibly cannot knovv vvhat a vaine thing is it then to bragge of the consent of all vvhen you can hardly name tvventy in the most flourishing age that euer vvas vvhose bookes came to our hands Besides the consent of all in one age in no controuersie can you bring against vs except it vvere in the most corrupt ages Lastly the Pastors Christ gaue to his Church vvere men such as might erre and vvho had no promise to be kept from error if at any time they turned aside from the Scriptures The Fathers haue searched the Scriptures most diligently they haue heaped vp store of testimonies out of the holy Scriptures they haue attributed the chiefe place to these therefore wee ought to bee content with their exposition of Scriptures and without sinne wee may desire no better This either is the sense of this place or else there is no sense in it And verely I professe you haue laid these things downe so faintlie and looselie that I can hardlie discerne their scope for what I pray you can bee spoken more loosely The fathers haue diligently laboured to vnderstand the Scriptures therefore in their exposition of them they haue neuer erred But we find many strange differing and dissenting expositions in the Fathers which all may well be false but more then one of them cannot be true I will giue you one example for a thousand b DVR VVe confesse euery Father may errâ— but we deny that all the Fathers of one age did euer fall into any error which vvas contrary to faith WHIT. pag. 412. As if this vvere not a matter of faith vvhether S. Paul lyed or vvhether he ingenuously reproued S. Peter as he professed he did For if S. Paul did it dissemblingly then may it be lavvfull for vs to dissemble and after confirme it vvith a lye both vvhich are contrary to sound doctrine But particular dissentions you stand not vpon you desire to see some generall vvhen you grant euery particular may erre vvill it not follovv that all may But see an example In the Councell of Constantinople held vnder Leo the Pope the Fathers there decreed to abolish Images out of Churches But the Nicene Councell vnder Iren. condemned this Canon yea and by a third Councell held in Germany this decree vvas againe condemned One of these certeinly must needs be deceiued Againe haue you forgotten that Augustine vvith Innocent the Bishop of Rome other Bishops of the Church did thinke it necessary that the Eucharist should be giuen to Infants vvhich error continued a long time in the Church Thinke you these are not points of faith S. Paul writeth Gala. 2.11 that at Antioch hee withstood Peter to his face what a kinde of opposition this was you would know but cannot of your selfe find it out You wonder that Paul would oppose Peter one Apostle another and happely you suspect some mystery may be hid in it you goe to the fathers you enquire of Hierome August Hieron in Epistol and of Augustine two very famous lights of the Latine Church What do they tell you Augustine thinke that S. Paul spoke ingenuously and as he thoughte Hierome that he spoke fainedly If you approue the one you must needs reiect the other for you cannot consent with both Sixe hundred of this kind I could propound vnto you I know how sayth Hierome otherwise to account of the Apostles then of other writers Hieron in Epist. ad Theophilis They euer spâ—â—kâ— the trâ—â—â— these as man haue erred in some things Yet they read the Scriptures they were conuersant in them and spent themselues wholly in meditating vpon them From these you may discerne how your accusation is most vniust and our defence most equall and iust I desire not to diminish the fathers due and worthy commendations so you will confesse they are men extoll them with all the prayses you can to the very heauens where they are now free Denizens I could wish that that which they constantly did either you would do search the Scripture or suffer vs to do then I doubt not but this fight would haue a good issue But the Scriptures which Christ ratified with his owne voice and commended to our diligent search you flie from and abhorre as theeues doe the gallowes you abandon them out of mens sight and yet you haue neuer done searching for you compasse sea and land to find out old traditions and customes long ago dead and buried mens inuentions decrees of Popes the corruptions of Churches fained and forged bookes diriges scrappes dreames and fables but the holy Scripture you touch not at all lest as I suppose they would make against you At length for shame cast away those your trifles which you so busily hunt after and search the Scriptures c DVR VVe allow all to read the Scriptures as many as can vvell and safely do it And then vve account the search good and sound vvhen men are able to interpret them not out of their ovvne heads but by the authority of the auncient Fathers WHIT pag. 415. You shew your good nature that you will not reproue that which is well done But may none else reade the Scriptures but men qualified as you write then very few must spend their labour in them But Christ commanded to search the Scriptures not the opinions and exposition of the Fathers yea and he commaunded all whosoeuer to seeke eternall life and desire to know Christ Joh. 5.39 and not the learned only as Christ hath commaunded Origen in Isas hom 1. and the ancient fathers haue done And would to God as Origen writeth we all would doe that which is written Search the
new Sacraments new sacrifice and new doctrine of religion There hath not been found any one Historiographer either Latin or Greeke neither abroad nor at home which hath vouchsafed so much as to make a little note in his bookes of so notable a matter though it had been neuer so slenderly Wherefore this is a matter manifest enough if the Historie which is a faithfull witnes of antiquity and the life of memory do in many and sundry places copiously entreate and spoake of that faith which we professe and if no History at all since the creation of the world do affirme that that faith which the aduersaries do thrust vpon vs was 〈◊〉 allowed in the Catholike Church then are all the Historiographers on our part and the inuasions of the aduersaries are not friuolous and such as can make no man afraid except it bee first granted that all Christians throughout euery age haue fallen to grosse infidelity and consequently into the deepe pit of hell vntill that Frier Luther committed aduoutrie with the Nunne Katherine Bore WILLIAM WHITAKERS The answere to the seauenth Reason which is the Historie NOw you call vs to Historie the witnes of times and reporter of Antiquity and all that haue taken paines in publishing the Ecclesiasticall Historie their names you set downe and like dumbe showes you carry them in great pompe as though Campian the particular naming of all that haue published any Historie were sufficient for the remembrance and searching out the monuments of Antiquitie What insolent new kind of Logicke is this to recken vp the Historians of the whole world and of particular countries and then conclude they are your owne Haue you of late from aboue procured this priuiledge that whatsoeuer you lay your hands vpon shall by and by become yours we haue long since perused the auncient Chronicles wherein the beginning and proceeding of the Church is set downe and we find not that they fauour you more then vs. If in them be some things against vs many moe and more waightie testimonies they haue against you and such as giue you a deadlie wound else would wee neuer haue collected the Histories of the auncient Church so accuratelie and diligentlie penning them exactlie and distinguishing the seuerall ages and times neither would wee haue published them in the world if they were so contrarie vnto vs as you surmise for who haue taken more paines to finde out or more faithfullie restored the Ecclesiasticall Histories then our men without whose labours many monuments of Antiquitie had been buried in darlinesse We therefore will neuer denie this triall of Antiquitie and seeing you appeale to auncient Histories wee condiscend yet with this caution that we be not tied to those things which were apparantly blemishes in the auncient Church Especially seeing that writers of Histories intending to make a natration of things done doe not so much teach vs what ought to bee done but haue an eye to that which was then performed and by that meanes set downe many things worthie of reprehension rather than imitation and for the most part it happens that Historiographers are possessed with the errors of the times wherein they writ and euer the later writer the more corrupt But here you exclaime that wee seeke euasions and very peruersly you slaunder vs that because wee doe not allowe all wee refuse all They that reforme what is amisse doe not blame the rest that is not faultie Striue while you list Campian and crie out of mazes and labyrinths at length will you nill you by the cares must wee bring you to the iudgement of the Scriptures And herein Campian you very much a DVR And vvhy may not Campian trumph for what impudencie is this to cry out that the Church of Rome is full of innumerable heresies and yet you cannot tell vvhen one of them euer began in vvhat Popes time by vvhat meanes hovv it increased in the Church WHIT. pag. 477. A good cause would be defended by reasons not raylings But doth it follow that the Church of Rome is not corrupt because wee cannot tell the moment of time when it began to be corrupt but being so manifest as it is what need we search the Histories to shew the beginning what I pray if you see a man sicke of the pestilence a citie corrupt with riote and wickednesse a house ruinous and readie to fall a shippe sincking will you deny all these vnlesse one can tell you the time when he began to be sicke the meanes how the city grew corrupt who vvas ovvnet and in vvhat yeare the house grevv ruinous and in vvhat daâ—e the shippe began first to leake And vvhat is the force of your reason and demaund other then this But doe not your owne Histories tell vvhen and by vvhom innouations and corruptions entred see a fevv of them Hee that first vsurped authoritie ouer other Churches vvas Pope Victor after him Zozimus Boniface Celestiue and theâ— successura Pope Syricius first foâ—bad Priests marriages The Manichies first denied the Cup to the people The Nicene Councell first ordained vvorshipping of Images Pope Nicolas the second first taught the bodie of Christ must carnally be handled broken and eaten Pope Jnnocent the third first established the doctrine of Transubstantiation Boniface the third that the Pope vvas the head of all Churches Gregorie the great taught Purgatorie first for a certeine truth The Florentine Councell that the Pope was aboue Councels Jnnocent the third brought in auricular confession If these vvere not sufficient I could produce sire hundred more triumph when you demaund at what time vnder what Bishop by what way and proceeding was a new religion spread ouer the Citie of Rome and the whole world and doe not doubt but that if any change and declining had been many writers would haue made mention of it or diuers or one at the least It is hard for vs to answere at what time neither is it necessarie to set downe the very instant of time All things were not at once ouerturned in the Church of Rome sinne and wickednes came to his height by degrees and by leisure to ripenes the haires of our head are not all gray of a suddaine neither doth any thing suddainely come to his maturitie and the growth of euery thing appeareth long after This is manifest in such things as hauing small beginning goe on forward vnto a greater quantitie vntill they come to perfection you cannot deny but there was a great alteration of Religion in the Church of b DVR It is not hard to knovv the heresies of the Ievves for Philastrius Epiphanius Iosephus haue vvritten of them WHIT pag. 484. It is as easie to know the heresies of Christians being more in the Christian Church then euer vvere in the Church of Ierusalem and of these also haue many bookes been vvritten Ierusalem what then was the change all at once shew vs then how those nouelties entred into the Church what time what way who
that the Diuels do certainly knovv vvhich is as much as you Papists doe beleeue by your ovvne confession and so you confesse your selues to bee void of true faith But the faith the Apostle speaketh of doth not only beleeue those things are true in themselues but that they are partakers of them Therefore he saith it is the ground of things hoped for because it enioyeth those good things vvhich are prepared for another life by a certaine an approued hopes and the euidence of things not seene because it novv beholdeth things that are hid from our eies The perseuerance then of the faithfull is so certaine that they may thinke they haue the possession of those things vvhich they shall receiue in another vvorld Novv the faith S. Paul speaketh of is not a iustifying faith but only true and sound doctrine of vvhich Hymâ—naeus and Alexander had made shipvvtacke ground of things that are hoped for the euidence of things that are not seene Now how are those things extant which bee hoped for or demonstrated which are not seene if faith bee not perpetuall But they which are endued with this faith they doe now after a sort enioy those good things which are yet hoped for they do contemplate those things which cannot be seene with mens eies So that faith admits vs being aliue here and as the Apostle saith 2. Cor. 5.7 walking by faith and not by sight into the very possession of heauen so as because vve are n DVR 1. Cor. 10. He that standeth let him take heed lest he fall Phil. 2. vvorke out your saluation vvhich feare the like Heb. 4. WHIT. pag. 633. 1. You haue falsified 1. Cor. 10. for Paules vvords are he that thinketh he standeth let him take heed lest hee fall Wherein you go against euen your ovvne authenticall Latin translation Blush you not at this 2. The very Saints themselues are diligently to be admonished to flie carnal securitie to be ware of Sathans assaults and to be in coÌ„tinual care And yet this hindâ—eth not but that they are in the meane vvhile most certaine of their saluation For although Paul Act. 27 sayling did not doubt a whit whether he should come safe to land yet he let passe nothing vvhich it behooued a man carefull of his safetie to care for and to do certaine that wee shall one day bee there wee seeme now after a sort to liue and conuerse in heauen But all these things would be fading and light if saith could not perseuere Therefore o DVR Will you say that the Apostle speaketh in the person of all tâ—e elect WHIT. pag. 629. The Apostle proueth it speaking â—n their person vvhat shall separate vs not me only from the loue of Christ And againe I am persvvaded that nothing shall separate vs not me only from the loue of God which is in Christ Iesus Therefore he speaketh of all those vvho are predestinated Paul had a most certaine perswasion that neither life nor death nor things present nor things to come nor any other creature can seperate vs from the loue of God which is in Christ Iesus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Rom. 8.38 But such as doe not perseuere they may be separated but these cannot bee separated therefore they perseuere And for this cause the pledge of our adoption euen the holy Ghost himselfe is giuen to vs who assureth vs most certainely that we are the sonnes of God so as now we do not doubt to call God Father Cal. 4.6 But how dare such a one call him Father who thinketh that he may be sometime not his sonne for the Saints may professe with the Apostle 1. Ioh. 3.2 we know that we shall bee like him Knowledge is certaine consisteth on assured principles to doubt is the property of opinion not of knowledge Heare Cyprian Cyprian de mortal Let such a man feare to die who not being borne againe of water and the spirit is thrall to the fire Let him feare to die that thinketh not hee hath his part in Christs Crosse and Passion Chrysost cap. 5. ad Rom. Chrysostome vpon these words of the Apostle Into this grace wherein we stand writeth thus The grace of God hath no end it knoweth no full point but it maketh progresse vnto greater And anone after saith he we must be fully assured not only of things giuen but also of things to be giuen as well as of things giuen alreadie And Augustine August in Psal 88. because therefore saith he the promise is firme not according to our merits but according to his mercy no man ought with fearefulnes to preach the kingdome of Christ in his Saints whereof he ought not to doubt But Augustine is wholy ours For as you did lately conclude that Augustine did allow free will because hee wrote three bookes of free will so may I reason after the same manner that Augustine did thinke of perseuerance as we do because he wrote one booke of the good of perseuerance To this I will ioyne Bernard whose golden words these be Bernard in Can. Ser. 61. My conscience is troubled but it is not ouer troubled because I will remember the wounds of the Lord. But I will alleadge no more testimonies Faith is either perpetuall or else it is none at all either it perseuers to the last breath ot else that which is esteemed for faith is but some fancie As for that that you alleage touching Luther who you say affirmeth that a Christian though he will cannot lose his saluation vnlesse hee will not beleeue this Luther neuer affirmed either in that booke or any where els For if you shall turne ouer all Luthers writings which you haue not saluted nor I beleeue so much as seene yet you can finde this sentence no where The Fathers of Trent haue condemned this proposition and worthily for it is impious and to bee reckoned among the chiefest paradoxes But whose soeuer it was certainly it was not Luthers But say you Luther wrote so in his booke of the captiuity of Babylon That is false yet he wrote some such thing I will tell you what it is and that in a word Luther reproueth the Papists for that they thought that the grace of Baptisme is quite lost by sinne and withall they brought in Penance a new Sacrament which they terme a second boord wherby the grace of Baptisme might be recouered Therefore he denieth that the power and grace of Baptisme can so bee lost by sinnes but that it may bee repaired by faith which thing he proueth by many and mighty reasons In that therefore Luther taught that the grace of Baptisme cannot be lost vnlesse one will not beleeue and this the Fathers of Trent and our countriman Campian do so interprete as if hee had said that which these men obiect that a Christian though he will cannot leese his saluation vnlesse he will not beleeue Why should I confute so vnsauoury an imagination