obiections of the errors of Popes and Councels refuted So can I whensoeuer you shall instance any such particular refutation which may ease you of some paines if it be so sufficiently performed referre you to some of the authors of our side where the same reasons haue been with no lesse sufficiencie handled and replied to assuring my selfe That neither any of you haue or can make any obiections against the doctrine we professe that hath not beene already obiected and likewise by vs answered And if any will shew me the contrary I will be beholding to him neither will I shut mine eyes against the trueth If this which I haue sayd may any whit preuaile with you to make shew of that great learning whereof in your Letter you haue boasted by your liberall vndertaking to proue so many particulars which hitherto as great Clerkes as your selfe haue failed in I shall be ready and willing to performe whatsoeuer I haue herein promised Otherwise I pray you returne the booke as you receiued it and you shall see that some such course shal be taken as shal make you blush to haue censured so rashly Your friend in Christianity and Charitie T. V. A briefe view of the weaknesse of the Grounds of Popish Religion as is euident by these seuerall Obiections and Answeres following Protestant 1WHereupon doe you ground your Religion Papist Vpon the word of God interpreted by the Church which cannot erre Protestant 2 What do you vnderstand by the Word of God Papist The Scriptures and Traditions Protestant 3 What doe you vnderstand by the Church Papist Stapl. princi doct l. 7 ca. 10. l. 11 ca. 5 Hervaeus de potest pap R. Cupers Petrus de Palude de potest papae Aâ— 4. The Church is sometimes taken for the auncient Fathers sometimes for generall Councels Sometimes we preferre the head of the Church the Pope before both Protestant 4 Well that we may procéede orderly in the handling of these particulars Doe you receiue all the bookes of the Old and Newe Testaments with equall authoritie Papist No but following the Tradition of the Church we distinguish betweene the Canonicall and the Apocrypha Protestant 5 Which are the Bookes which you call Apocrypha Papist Wee hold as Apocrypha The prayer of Manasses the third and fourth booke of Esdras Also others that are not vsuall in your English Bibles as an Appendix to the booke of Iob The 151. Psalme A preface to the Lamentations of Ieremie The third and fourth booke of Maccabees Protestant 6 Well we agrée with you in the reiection of these Bookes And we likewise consent with you That all the bookes of the New Testament as they stand are to be receiued of all for Canonicall Scripture What are then the Bookes that are in question betwéene vs Papist There be 7. Chapters of Hester certaine Stories annexed to Daniel as Of Bel and the DragoÌ„ Of Susanna Of the three childreÌ„ Also the Epistle of Baruch ioyned to Ieremie Then the books of Tobie Iudeth The Wisedom of Salomon Ecclesiasticus Two bookes of the Maccabees These we repute as Canonical both by the testimony of the Fathers and by the authoritie of the Church Protestant 7 Well Since I shall haue cause hereafter to speake of the Church I wil but briefly giue a touch to the reason of the refusall of these Bookes All Canonicall Scriptures in the old Testament were written by the Prophets We haue a sure word of the Prophets 2. Pet. 1.19 saith Saint Peter And Saint Paul calleth them The Scriptures of the Prophets Rom. 16 2â— But none of those Bookes afore named of Tobias of Iudeth and the rest were written by the Prophets Therefore none of those Bookes are Canonical All the Bookes of the olde Testament that were Canonicall were acknowledged of the Iewes and Hebrewes and written in Hebrew But the Iewes receiued none of these Books into the Canon of the Scriptures though to them were committed the Oracles of God as Saint Paul sayth neither were they in the Hebrew tongue Ergo they are not Canonicall But to the end you may sée how well the Church of which you boast agrées with the testimonies of the Fathers both ancient moderne Hier prol galeat Eâ—i ad Pauli in praefat â—i Reg in praefat in â—ro Salom. I wil giue you this taste briefly S. Hierom saith The Church readeth those bookes but receiueth them not amongst the Canonicall Scriptures The summe of all which is confirmed by these testimonies following whose particular spéeches to this purpose for breuitie sake I omit referring you to the places themselues as they are here following set down As Rufinus in his exposition vpon the Créede Cyril of Hierusalem in the 4. of his Catechisme Athanasius in Synop. Sacr. Scriptur Nazianzen in Carminis Epiphan li. de Mensur ponder Cyprian vpon the Créed Damasâ—en ca. 49. Hugo de Sanct. Victor de Sacram. in prol li. 1. ca. 7. Radulphus in Leuit. li. 14. c. 1. Lyra in prol in li. Apocry Hugo Cardina in prol Iosu All these contradict the opinion of the Papists in this controuersie yea Arias Montanus a chiefe Papist in his Hebrew Bible writeth in the forefront principal leafe of the booke There are added saith he in this Edition the bookes written in Gréek which the Catholike Church following the Canon of the Hebrews reckoneth amongst the Apocrypha The Councel of Laodicea Can. 59. Constantinop in Trul lo Can. 2. allured by a general Councel of Constantinople in Trullo did set downe the same Canon of the scriptures which both the old Church had our church doth hold commandeth Ne aliqui praeterea legantur in auctoritateÌ„ recipiaÌ„tur That none besides be read receiued into authority I omit many seueral contradictions in al or most of the books which we reiect they allow wherby they may be conuinced not to be written by the spirit of God which is alwaies one the same Sée the 4. Esdras 10.20 2. Maccab. 2.4 1. Mac. 1.6 8. touching Antiochus yea we wil confesse with Bellarmin Bellar. de ver Dei li. 1. cap. â— That the scriptures may be proued to be the Word of God by the constant perpetual truth of the Prophecies By the wonderful harmony consent of the holy writers of the Scriptures By the Spirit of God which is a principall witnes vnto vs By the scripture it selfe 2. Tim. 3. Lastly by the many great miracles wrought by the Prophets Apostles which do testifie for the truth thereof To the which touchstone if the Scriptures whith wee reiect were brought to the triall they would easily bee conuinced to bee but drosse and vnworthy to stand in the rankes of those that are Canonicall But how doe you knowe which are the Scriptures and in them which be Canonicall which be Apocrypha Papist I knowe by the testimonie of the Church which be the Scriptures and in them
Q. 14. par 1 And this later allegation of the 29 Chap. conuinceth the Author to be but a yong Father in respect of S. Basil For this bastard Basil in the same chapter mentioneth Meletius as a Bishop of ancient memorie dead long before his time Basi despi Sanct. ca. â—9 Insuper Meletium illum admirandum eadeÌ„ fuisse sententia narrant quicum illo vixerunt Sed quid opus est vetera commemorare Immò nunc qui sunt Orientales c. Moreouer Meletius that admirable Bishop was of the same opinion as they that liued with him report But what need I repeat ancient times The East Bishops which are at this day c. Now the true Saint Basil not only liued at the same time with Meletius but was made Deacon by him Socr li. 4. ca. 26. Basilij epi. 56 57 58 89. Socr. lib. 5. ca. 8. and wrote many letters to him and departed this life before him as the Church story witnesseth affirming Helladius S. Basils successor and Meletius were both present at the second Generall Councell at Constantinople vnder Theodosius and that must néeds be when Saint Basil was dead I wil yet enlarge this part out of the Rhemes Testament because I know you highly esteeme the booke and thinke it impossible that so many learned Diuines would abuse their Readers with counterfeit Fathers to confirme their doctrine Anot. Phe. Test â— Tim. 4. sect 13. Your Rhemists alleage a counterfeit Epistle of Alexander to prooue Holy water to be 1400. yéeres olde and it beareth date when Traianus and Helianus were Consuls which was neuer which prooueth it to be a counterfeit Anot. Rhe. Test 1. Cor. 11. sect 10. You alleage Chrysostome and S. Iames Masses for putting water into the wine in the Sacrament and that these Masses are forged are thus prooued Bals in Can. 32. Conc. Constant 6. First Balsamon Patriarch of Antioch saith That the Liturgie of Saint Iames was not extant in his time And in the Liturgy that beareth the name of Chrysostomes Masse as it is set foorth by Claudius du Sanctis There is a prayer for Pope Nicholas and the Emperour Alexius whereof the one was néere fiue hundreth yéeres the other 7. hundreth yéeres after Chrysostome For extreame Vnction you cite Augustin de visitatione Infirmor and Austin de Tempore Anot. Rhe. Test Cala. 4. sect 2. The first place is prooued a counterfeit by the censure of Louain In Censur general Tom. 10. as I haue shewed in the first example of these counterfeit Fathers and the other place de Tempore by the same warrant Oper. de Aug. Saint Augustine or as some thinke Anot Rhe. Test Acts 1 sect 7. Fulgentius is alleadged by your Rhemists to prooue prayer and preises to the blessed Virgin Marie saying Who can be able worthily to prayse or thanke thée Receiue our prayers obtaine vs our requests for thou act the speciall hope of sinners by thée we hope for pardon of our sinnes and in thée O most blessed is the expectation of our rewards c. What greater blasphemie can there be then to attribute that to the creature which is onely due to the Creator This is not to honor but to dishonour that blessed virgin in giuing those attributes to her which to proper and peculiar to our Sauiour Christ Now for proofe that this is a counterfeit Austine he addeth the tehimonie of Isiodorus who liued 200. yeeres after S. Austine which prooueth that it can neither be Saint Augustine nor Folgentius Besides this Augustine or Fulgentius in the 39. sermon doubteth of the Assumption of the Virgine Mary and yet when he may séeme to make for their superstition he must be vrged as the true Austine So little conscience make they of the abusing their Readers if it may hold them in blindnesse or giue any colour to their errors The questions of the Olde and New Testament are none of Saint Austins for in the 21 question it is affirmed that Melchisedech was the holy Ghost which saying the true Austine in his booke De Haeres refuteht as an heresie Bellar. de Sacr. Can. i. 2. ca. 10. This Bellarmine confesseth and yet the authoritie of this booke is often vrged by the Rhemists and other Papists But aboue all their forgeries Annot. Rhe. sest Act. 1. those touching the assumption of our Ladie are notable where for proofe thereof Saint Denis S. Damascen Athanasius and S. Barnard are alleadged In which they affirme that S. Denis writeth these and these things where neither the Author is S. Denis neither writeth he the things which they alleage Now for proofe that this Denis is a counterfeit Dionysius Areopagita who they here call S. Denis was dead many yéers before the works which beare his name could bee written for there is De diuin â—ominib c. 4 cited in them a saying of Ignatius out of an Epistle which he wrote to the Romanes as hee was going to suffer martyrdom Euseb in â—ronic Methodiâ— in Marâ—rio Dion â—reopag in the time of Traian the Emperour Now Dionysius died Ignat. epi. Ephes in the time of Domitian certaine yeers before And when Dion Aâ—op Episc â—thenarum Ignatius wrote it Onesimus was B. of Ephesus who succéeded Timothie Your counterfeit Timoth. â—isc Ephe. alleageth it to Timothie B. of Ephesus either after his decease or before it was written Besides it is set down in that Annotations that she liued 63 yéers being 25 yeres after Christs Ascension as it is in their Tables of S. Paul when she is supposed to be assumpted Now in the same Table After the Acts of the Apostles it is shewed by their owne account that it was 51 yeres after Christs Natiuity and 18 yeres after his Ascension before Dionysius Areopagita whom the tearme S. Denis was conuerted by S. Paul which f Acts 9 5 Galat. 1.18 Acts 9.26 Galat. 1 22 Acts 13 4. Gal. 2.1 Acts 15.4 Acts 16 5. Acts 17 34 the Scriptures also witnesse as any that will weigh the particular texts shal euidently perceiue So that he could not be one of the brethren to witnes her assuÌ„ption She being assumpted taking the largest computation thrée yeres before he was conuerted being at that time no Christian Hee might be proued a couÌ„terfeit by other reasons which I omit Now touching the things which are by the Rhemists fathered on him he saith no more thereof but that among the Bishops inspired of the holy Ghost Hierotheus excelled all the rest saue the Apostles in praysing Christs goodnesse when himselfe and Timothie and many of their holy brethren came together to behold the body which receiued God and which the Prince of life was in As for the miracles falsely forged by the Rhemists and fathered on him of the Apostles broght together S. Thomas coÌ„ming the 3 day after the Angels singing Hymnes thrée daies the buriall of the virgins body the desire of Thomas to
doctrine of your Church else I knowe they will all disclaime from it hauing seen the errors and weaknesse thereof I will take vpon me to shew that in so short and friuolous a discourse you could hardly compile more absurdities than there are couched I wil proue for example that you mistake and vnderstand not the questions your selfe would seeme to handle that you most shamefully belie our Catholike writers guilefully alleage both Fathers and Scriptures heap testimonies of ancient writers without end or purpose make obiections to your selfe and answere thē not at all I will proue that you alleage false Councels amongst the nūber of true without any difference or distinctiō that you reproue Fathers writings as counterfeit which are most approued count bookes of Scriptures Apocrypha which are Canonicall I will prooue in these few lines you write contrary to your selfe contrary to your owne writers I will prooue that the booke is fraught with most palpable lies errors corruptions falsifications if you wil but procure as I sayd before that it may be countenanced by publike authority with the subscriptiōs of 2. or 3. the most deepest schollers of your Sect. In the meane time I let it passe with this bare censure and intreate you but to reade Bellarmine de Pont. de Concil where you shall find most of your obiections of the errors of Popes and Councels already refuted The true Copie of my Letter in answere hereof TO accuse without proofe to say and shewe no reason of all which you in your Letter may iustly be taxed might truely argue mee to want both substance order learning and trueth according to your owne phrase And to free your selfe from the same imputation haue you yeelded any other reason against my booke which you intitie a vaine bundle of words than a boasting bundle of vaine brags Turpe est doctori c. But you would seem to giue a reason why your bare censure as you rightly haue censured your selfe should be a sufficient answere to my booke vnlesse I can procure two or three of the best learned of our side to auow it vnder their hands to be the doctrine of our Church Else you knowe or else you are a false prophet they will all disclaime from it hauing seen the errors and weakenesse thereof But lest I seeme to taxe you with want of learning and truth with bare words onely without proofe as you in the height and eminency of your iudgement haue censured me Can there be greater shew of ignorance thā to require that to be auowed to be the doctrine of our Church which hath beene already by the learned of our side published to the whole world in many of their seueral books daily extāt to be seen And that I cōmit not your fault To speake without proofe do you but instance any one point of doctrine in all my booke and if I doe not shew where the same is iustified by the learned of our side I will willingly acknowledge that error wherewith I haue here charged your selfe And to make it yet more euident if I should require you to confirme the doctrine you should deliuer by two or three of your best Diuines when the same had been published already by Bellarmine Gregorius Valencia your Rhemists and others could any thing conuince me of grosser ignorance It seemes notwithstanding your vaine brag That that you would prooue 15. particularities wherewith you haue charged me and my booke that you are but meanely read in controuersies otherwise you could not be ignorant that there is no doctrine in my booke that is not auowed published either by Iewel against Harding or the B. of Winchester that now is or by D. Rainolds D. Whittaker D. Fulke D. Sparke with many others And albeit I could not haue cōfirmed thus much by these cleere testimonies yet if you had Christianly and charitably weighed with what mind my request was made in my Preface to my Kinsmen wherin I had intreated in these very words That if I had not truely layd downe the Grounds of your Religion for the substance or if they had been mistaken by mee or vsing that breuity I had done they might more strongly haue been vrged or if the reasons I had vrged had been falsly alleaged or not truely handled c. That I would haue taken it as a speciall grace done vnto me c. to haue had the faults thereof manifested shewed that I might haue been drawen to haue been of the same profession with them c. you would neuer haue insisted vpon such a subscription of the deepest schollers of our Sect thereby to haue cauilled and shifted off the answere of my booke how vnlearned soeuer it had been either for the methode or matter But you imagined your wordes were so powerfull that it was sufficient for your followers that you had onely giuen your censure without shewing any further reason Besides my request being so charitable reasonable it seemes you haue small care of winning of soules otherwise I perswade my selfe if you had been assured of your owne sufficiencie to haue answered the booke you would neuer haue insisted vpon so friuolous a request Nor haue preferred the vaine-glory of hauing a learned aduersary before the hope you might not without good probabilitie haue conceiued in reducing many by my conuersion or rather indeede peruersion to haue been of your profession I professe for my part I cannot see any other ground of your Letter directed to me than to inlarge your own ostentation and glory to your followers For to vndertake that you would prooue this and this and not to haue returned the booke whereunto you required the subscription what can be inferred thereof but that you would winne time to delay and shift off the answere But if you will proceede according to my request in the Preface of my booke proue as much as by your Letter you haue presumed without seeking some new shift to delay the time further I will engage my selfe that the same shall bee replied to by one euery way equall to your selfe in all knowledge and literature who notwithstanding the aduantage you promise to your selfe of the absurdities committed by me shall defend the cause I manage and subscribe the same defence with his owne hand Otherwise you shall gaine thus much by your trauell that I wil willingly submit my selfe to be a member of your Church If you refuse these reasonable conditions I must vse your owne olde phrase and tell you that I must needs thinke your cause so weake that it cannot bee maintained I omit to charge you with inciuility in giuing me the Lie For that I cannot but pitie your ignorance that cannot as it seemes though all were false I had sayd speaking by relation distinguish betweene a lie and vntrueth And whereas you referre me in the conclusion of your Letter to Bellarmin de Pont. de Concilijs where you say I shall find most of my