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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A30899	Quakerism confirmed, or, A vindication of the chief doctrines and principles of the people called Qvakers from the arguments and objections of the students of divinity (so called) of Aberdeen in their book entituled Quakerism convassed [sic] by Robert Barclay and George Keith.	Barclay, Robert, 1648-1690.; Keith, George, 1639?-1716.	1676 (1676)	Wing B733; ESTC R37061	83,121	93

or perceptible by themselves which were ridiculous and as ridiculous is their conceit of an influence of the Spirit that is meerly effective and not objective That the books of the old and new testament are called the Scripture by way of eminency we deny not although the name is given at times to other writings nor doth this refute G. K. his translation of that Scripture 2 Tim. 3 16. which is confirmed by the Syriack which hath it thus In Scripturâ enim quae per Spiritum scripta est utilitas est ad doctrinam c. i. e. For in the Scripture which is written by the Spirit there is profite But their reason from the Conjunction and is both foolish and blasphemous for if the words be rendered thus All Scripture given by inspiration is and profitable is no more non-sense then divers other places in the Scripture where the Conjuction and seemeth to be redundant as in that place Joh. 8 25. where the Greek hath it thus 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 i. e. The beginning or from the beginning the same which and I speak unto you Now if the Conjunction and render not this place non-sense no more doth it render that in Timothy but the Students ignorance renders them rather blasphemers and their arguments blasphemous against the words of Christ. Moreover the conjunction 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 may signifie a strong affirmation as to say even truely indeed as both our English translation hath it Joh. 8 25. and Schrevelius in his Greek-Lexicon doth render it and thus the words have good sense All-Scripture or writing given by inspiration is even or indeed profitable And whereas they say none but a Q. or Jesuit would so interpret the place they declare their malice and ignorance for William Tindall that famous Protestant martyr in his translation of the Bible for which the Papists burnt him did tranilate it as G. K. doth whom we think the Students dare not accuse as a Jesuit that he was a Q in so farr as he held divers of our principles condemned by the Students we shall not deny As for us we blesse the Lord our faith stands not on such a small nicity as the want of an is or the redundahcy of an and let them look to that whose faith knoweth no other foundation but the letter It doth nothing hurt our faith nor lessen the due esteeme of the Scripture to us if peradventure an is hath been lost or an and hath crept into the text since the originall coppies were lost This we know and can prove that the Scripture can not profit any man to salvation without the illumination or inspiration of the Spirit which is both effective and objective and which our adversaries grant at least to be effective And if they make one exception why may not wee make another or if they say the Spirit is necessary one way why may not we say it is necessare another way But then the Scriptures say they would not be profitable at all in any manner or kind we deny the consequence for it is profitable yea and necessary in genere objecti materialis i. e. as the materiall object in relation to all historicall truths and divers other dogmatical and doctrinall points which perhaps we would not have knowne without the Scripture although we had had the Spirit in as large a measure as men now have it Again the Scripture is profitable in genere objecti remoti secundarii i. e. by way of a remote and secondary object and rule even as in relation to testimonies of life and experience which may be knowne without the Scripture yet the Scripture is a secondary confirmation and help even in that case as a card or map of a land is unto a traveller that travells through the land it selfe and seeth the high wayes who will not throw away his card because he sees the land it selfe but will both delight and profit himself to compare them both together Other great and weighty uses wee could give but these suffice to serve as instances against their weak and sorry argumentation Their last argument is from Joh. 12 48. The word that I have spoken the same shall judge him in the last day But how prove they that this is the letter of the Scripture much of which was not then writ And although this Word were not Christ himself yet it may be an inward testimony spoken by Christ in mens hearts Here they meerly begg and prove not But 2. suppose it were the Scripture or written Law as that cited by them Rom. 2 12. it will only follow that the Scripture is a secondary Law or rule which we willingly grant and that by it men who have the Scriptures shall be judged but not by them only for if the Gentiles who have not the written Law shall be judged by the Law in the conscience so shall these also who have both inward and outward be judged by both and consequently their damnation shall be greater SECTION FIFTH Of worship being an Answer unto their third Section concerning inspirations to duty IN their stating the controversie in this particular they grossly prevaricate in divers things as where they say N. 2. the question is not only about duty on the matter videlicet the act of prayers c. as separated from the right manner viz. sincerity and truth wheras indeed the question betwixt them and us is about prayer as separated from the right manner viz. sincerity and truth For they say God requires men to pray without any inspiration or gracious influence of the spirit so that such a prayer is an answering of the obligation to the duty upon the matter although it be separated from the right manner and accordingly they doe both require and allow men to pray when they have no gracious influence or motion therunto telling them that even such prayers are required and that they doe better to give such prayers as want sincerity unto God then not to pray at all seing such lifelesse and spiritlesse prayers have the matter of true prayer although they want the right manner Wheras we on the contrary affirm that lifelesse prayers have neither the right matter and substance nor yet the right manner of prayer and therfor are not at all required in Scripture Yet we deny not but many times when men want an influence of life to pray they are still under the obligation and at such ' times it is their sin not to pray because they ought to have sutable influences to prayer which would not be wanting if they were faithfull unto God but when through unfaithfulnesse they want them it doth not excuse them from being under the obligation yet still when they want the helpe of the Spirit they ought to pray by the Spirit becaus they ought to have it Even as when one man oweth unto another man a just debt in money the debter ought to pay the money although he have no money to

pay it with for his want of the money doth not excuse him from the obligation to pay it yet he ought to pay the debt only with money or the equivalent of it but if he should offer to pay it with any thing that is not money nor moneys worth as suppose with a few counters this is no answering the obligation either in the right matter or manner and so it is in the case in hand Again N. 8. They fall into the like prevarication in alledging the question is not about a new heart and spirituall principle of obedience for they owne that as indispensably necessary for acceptable performance But do not they say that when men pray without a new heart they do in part answer the obligation and do not they encourage them to pray even the most wicked This is denyed by the people called Quakers and is a great part of the question We say indeed wicked men ought to pray but not remaining wicked but that they ought to forsake their wickednesse and have a new heart and therewith to pray Moreover whereas they say the question is not about every performance but about acceptable performance Herein they most palpably contradict themselves N. 9. where they grant that no act of worship can be acceptably performed withot these influences and they wel know that the Qu say the same the question then is not about acceptable performance seing both they and we grant that no duty can be acceptably performed without the Spirit so that if the Students had understood their matter they would have said the question is not about acceptable performance but about simple performance whether there be any obligation to performe duty that is not acceptable which they affirme and we deny for indeed unacceptable performance is as good as no performance but rather worse as if under the Law the Jewes had offered up a dogs neck in place of a sacrifice it had been a greater sin then not to offer at all As it is a greater offence for a man to offer to pay his debt with counters or pennies made of slait-stone then not to pay at all Another grosse errour they committ in alledging the question is about praeparatory motions praevious in time this is a lye we challenge them to shew us any such thing in our books we doe not require motions or influences of the Spirit previous in time although they are oft given it sufficeth that they are previous in order of nature as the cause is previous unto the effect which is not alwayes in time but in nature but the question is indeed about the necessity of motions to and in the performance of duty so as the performance is to be in by through and with the Spirit which may wel be without a praeviousuesse in time as to inward duty at least and if the outward can be simultaneous with the inward it may also be as to the outward but if it can not be so soone as the inward in some cases the reason is not for want of the motion but because the bodily organs can not so hastily answer the motion as the mind it selfe can and it sufficiently answereth the motion that the mind answer it first and then the bodily organs as soone as their nature can permitt There is yet another great errour they committ in alledging such a lively and spirituall disposition as being necessary in our sense whereas we doe not lay it upon such a lively c as if we required such a degree of life for the least measure of life that is but able to carry forth the soul in any living measure of performance is sufficient where the soul keepeth to the measure and doth not exceed or goe beyond it In the prosecution of their arguments they are no lesse unhappy in the stating of the question as will shortly appeare Pag. 95. 67. they bring in R B. and A. Sk. denying their sequel which they laboure to prove but how unsuccessfully we shall see anon becaus as angels and bruts agree in that they are both substances so spirituall duties and other duties agree in that they are both to be performed in the Spirit But what then Yet the difference is still great betwixt those duties that as to their matter are naturall and civill and those which as to their very matter are spirituall as for example to eat to plough to pay a debt are not spirituall as to their matter but only as to their manner and end when acceptably performed and therefore the matter of those duties and whole substance of them may be without any gracious motion of the Spirit and in that case the performances themselves are really profitable in the creation among men and consequently doe answer the obligation in part but prayer and thanksgiving c are duties wholly spirituall both as to matter or substance and as to manner and end so that whoso essayeth to doe any of them without the gracious motions of the Spirit he leaveth not only the right manner but the very matter and substance of the duty behind him and bringeth the meer accidents along with him which have no profit nor use to men nor are any wise in the least part an answer of the obligation and as to that Scripture cited by them the plowing of the wicked is sin Prov. 21 4. they do not prove that it is meant of outward plowing the margin of our English hath it the light of the wicked and Arius Montanus rendreth it on the margine cogitatio the thought that the plowing of the wicked is sin in respect of the manner and lastend we grant but that the action materially considered is sin we altogether deny even in a wicked man for the outward mechanick and bodily act is good in its nature and profitable as also in so farr as it may be for the maintainance of his family it is good so that in respect of the matter and subordinate end there is no difference betwixt the plowing of a good man and a wicked whereas the prayer of a good man by the Spirit and the prayer of a wicked man without the Spirit differ materially in their very nature and substance the good mans prayer by the Spirit is true and reall prayer but the wicked mans prayer is no true prayer at all but a dead image of it nor is the wicked man a true worshipper for he only is a true worshipper according unto the expresse doctrine of Christ who worships the Father in Spirit and in truth whereas a wicked mans plowing is as reall and true and good as to the matter and nature of the outward action as that of the good It doth not therefore follow that according to the Q. principle because a man is not to pray without the Spirit that therefore he is not to plow without the Spirit in respect of the matter although in respect of the defect in the manner and last end which should be

as having impudently aspersed their Professor I. M. with seurrilous revileings and malitious calumnies of which they are so impudent as not to give one instance and are thereto dared when they write next to name them or instance one calumny or scurrilous revileing wherwith I asperse him or else be accounted impudent lyars wheras they say these calumnies we borrowed from the spitefull Iesuits and like vipers spouted them out Again they declare their folly The Jesuit accused him of treason as the Students following his example doe us but so not I who only minded him that seing he who sayes the Scripture is his Rule has been deceived in pretending the Scripture said that which now he confesses to be an errour If the Spirit were to be rejected from being the rule becaus men pretending to it have been deceived so should the Scripture also in which instances if he or they dare say I have calumniated him let them name wherin And I shall prove all I have asserted in that affaire and that without recurring to the Jesuits testimony having my information from better hands And to augment their lyes they say It tends to his advantage to be calumniated by such as the Quakers They have not proved that we have calumniated him and we may justly retort That he may rather be troubled and shamed to find himselfe so fawningly flattered and commended by such as the Stud like the Philosopher of old that was troubled when spoken well of by a profligat person Lastly They goe about to Apologize for the long time their book hath been a comeing out becaus of their difficulties at the presse which difficulties were not such as we meet with to have their papers surprized and stopt as they sought to doe ours But becaus they could not perswade a Printer to be so foolish as to print them without due payment but it is like the contriving and patching it together hath been as great a cause of lett since when it was out and came from Edinburgh to Aberdeen and after we had bought one intire book at Edinburgh They kept it up at Aberdeen severall weeks adviseing and consulting about it and upon notice of some grosse contradictions in it which wee had observed to some of their owne way They caused the Printer there to patch two pages to it to help them by which they have but rendered their weaknesse more obvious For whereas to solve that grosse contradiction before observed by us of their making us speak in their Accompt one after another and yet saying the Auditors can testifie that we are lyars and never spake so They say their meaning is not that we did not speak one after another What means the word never then This Apology amounts to no more but that the Students intended not to contradict themselves and instead of bettering themselves by this addition they have given away their cause for whereas they before make a great clamour against G. K. for asserting permissive inspirations as if it had been some great absurdity themselves here affirm the same thing saying The Apostle by these words it is good for a man not to touch a woman doth not command but only permitt he himself neverth elesse being inspired by the Spirit of God so to do is not this then a permissive inspiration So that these things will but make their folly manifest as also their further frivolous Apologies in that additionall advertisement which to the truely judicious doth not cover but rather discover their weaknesse Seing it may fall out that this tract may arrive at the hands of many who perhaps may not see those sheets in which we have disproved the Students calumnies and lyes in matter of fact as in Relation to the dispute wee had with them we thought fit here also to insert the certificate of four Students present at the dispute and since come among us three of which were at that time actuall Students of Philosophy in the University and the other had been in the classe with one of the disputants R. B. Wee under-subscribers late Students of Philosophy from the university of Aberdeen being present at the Dispute doe faithfully declare that the Students have grossely belved the Qu. in their Accompt makeing them speake that which they spake not and also sorging arguments and answers not mentioned upon the place And though wee had no intention at that time to owne the people called Qu yet wee dare not but declare that their Answers and behaviour had no small influence upon us to make us in love with their way and to search after it more diligently as also the Students arguments and lightnesse did not a litle tend to make us disgust them and their principles and albeit that inward peace and satisfaction of mind which wee enjoy in the Truth wee now professe with that despised and injured people doth make us blesse the day in which it pleased God to bring us among them yet wee are not a litle confirmed in the beliefe of this reproached testimony and witnesses that wee find the strongest arguments their Adversaries have against them are lyes and calumnies And this wee testifie for the Truth whom the Truth hath taught not to lye ROBERT SANDILANDS JAMES ALEXANDER And I also declare who being a Student at that time in the old town Colledge was present at the Dispute and heard the same with attention that the Students have grossly belyed the Q. in many things in their account and although that since it hath pleased God to joine me unto that people yet at that time I had no mind to be of their way However when I saw their account I did approve it as ingenuous as now also I doe and disapprove the Students as false in many things ALEXANDER SEATONE And I likwise being a Student in the new town Colledge at that time was present at the Dispute and doe declare that the Students folly and lightnesse had no small influence upon me to search more narrowly into the way of that people which it pleased the Lord to blesse unto me so that the eyes of my understanding came to be opened and I came fully to be convinced of the truth of their principles and way to which now by the mercy and goodnesse of the Lord I am joyned and do find by comparing the two Accounts together that the Students have wronged the people called Quakers in divers things as the Students self contradictions do sufficiently shew ALEXANDER PATERSO●● * But besides will not their Masters answer above mentioned meet well with them here that since these sects and saincts did as both they and the Q. confess but pretend to the spirit that because they did but pretend therefore the Q. do but pretend also no more then because some hereticks do pretend their religion is conform to the Scripture therefore I. M. doth so too And the Sy●iack coppy hath not in that 20. ver nor elswhere these words the Lords Supper at all but in lieu of it when then ye meet together not as ye ought to do in the day of the Lord.