Selected quad for the lemma: book_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
book_n	old_a	prophet_n	testament_n	5,085	5	8.1969	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A85830	Shadowes without substance, or, Pretended new lights: together, with the impieties and blasphemies that lurk under them, further discovered and drawn forth into the light: in way of rejoynder unto Mr Iohn Saltmarsh his reply: entituled Shadowes flying away. Wherein nothing lesse is shewed to have been performed, then what the title page importeth; or the preface promiseth. As also, divers points of faith and passages of Scripture are vindicated and explained. / By Thomas Gataker, B. of D. and pastor of Rotherhith. Published by authority.	Gataker, Thomas, 1574-1654.	1646 (1646)	Wing G326; Thomason E353_25; ESTC R201089	123,738	127

encounter doe not begin with so much passion especially having so lately promised that you would not be in passion unlesse your meaning were for you are many times very ambiguous when you said you hoped you should be no more in passion with me then with Mr Ley that you intended to be in passion as much with me as you had been with him But Sir to come to a calm and serious reckoning with you what is the cause and the ground of all this windy bluster where doth Mr G. say Our Antinomians free-grace or the Prophets and the Apostles free-grace I say only as in the Frontispice of my Book so in the discourse it self f Answ p. 6. That free-grace which we find here described and is by our Antinomians usually asserted is such as differeth much from that which either the Prophets held forth in the Old Testament or Christ and his Apostles preached in the New And yet had I said The Prophets and Apostles free-grace I might well enough have justified it for why might not one as well say g Ephes 2.20 ●od est ab ●psis positum praedicatum ●un ad Bellar. cont 3. l. 3. c. 23. the Prophets and Apostels free-grace as the Prophets and Apostels foundation and * ● Cor. 4.3 the Apostles Gospel not theirs as Authors and owners of it and yet their 's as taught and promulgated by them But Sir it seems you liked rather to be picking somewhat out of my work to find your self work which you found not in it or to be pidling with that which had it been there found had been of no moment then to be dealing with those things that are indeed materiall but you either shun or slight And let any indifferent Reader now passe sentence or let Mr S. himself being by this time I hope out of the fit he was in when he writ this and in a calmer and cooler temper whither all this wind and dust were not raised to litle purpose and without any just occasion given unlesse the matter propounded and undertaken to be proved and made good against him finding it somewhat too soundly set on and perceiving he could not so easily shift it of might cast him into this frivolous and groundlesse distemper And indeed Sir this may well the rather be deemed so to be because you appear plainly so puzzled in that which ensues that you shuffell much and mash your self like a fish in a net that 〈◊〉 not get out in answering to what is objected in the one part and again you slily slip away as an eele out of the fishermans fingers taking no notice at all of what you are charged with in the other For first to prove that according to these mens grounds free-grace was not preached by Gods Prophets in times past h Answ 7. I reason thus from his own words there related Where Gods love is to be had in way of purchase by duty and doing and the whole efficacy is put as it were on the duty and obedience performed there is no free grace much lesse as these men describe it But so it was saith Mr S. in all the Ministery of the Prophets No free grace therefore was preached by them Now to this he Answers nothing but this that i Reply p. 4. § 2. those termes inserted as if and in the way and as it were do cleer him from such positive and exclusive assertions of free-grace as I would make him speak Which had need of some Oedipus to unfold unto us and to tell us what he would have or to which Proposition of mine argument what he here saith is to be applyed Sure the man was somewhat distracted or disturbed when he writ this One would have thought that these qalifying terms should rather have imported no such absolute denyall then no such absolute assertion of free-grace But Sir this plaster make it up which way you wil and apply it where you please wil not serve to cover much lesse to cure the foul sore of your assertions or any whit to amend the matter For look in what manner the Prophets propounded and preached it in the same manner and no other could the people apprehend it and if the Prophets then so propounded and preached it as if it were to be had in way of parchase by duty and doing then was it not either propounded or preached as if it were free-grace nor were the people then taught that it was to be had otherwise then by way of purchase for in that way say you did all the ministery that then was runne and if free-grace were neither preached to them nor beleived by them then neither were they saved by free-grace k 1 Cor. 15.1 2. for it is that that is preached to people whereby they are saved and not some other secret reserve which yet l Act. 15.11 the Apostel sayth that they were But Sir to draw up all this debate to an issue If the Prophets in their preachings propounded Gods love and favour so as if it were to be had by way of purchase when as yet they knew that it was to be had by free-grace and not by purchase and so intended whatsoever they said then they deluded Gods people and taught them one thing when they knew and intended an other Or if they taught in expresse termes that it was a Psa 55.1 not to be had by way of purchase as your self know they did and b Treat p. 24. 30. presse their words to that purpose tho abusing them grosly as others of your strain do to make people beleive that we do not preach such freegrace as they did then Sir you did wickedly and wretchedly against your own knowledg wrong and calumniate Gods Prophets as wel as other his Ministers in affirming that they propounded Gods love so unto his people as if it were to be had by way of purchase Now Sir out of these briars wherein you have unadvisedly ensnared your self how with all your wit for they give you out to be a very witty man you wil be able to unwind your selfe I see not Mean while by what hath been said may appear how vain and idle c Reply p. 4. ● 2. your expostulations here are and your complaints of being unjustly delt with as if your words had been strained beyond their extent when as nothing is drawn from them but what they willingly yeild and by just and necessary consequence afford nor are they racked any one jot beyond your intent which is to prove that the Legalists as you stile them of these times do not preach free-geace d Treat p 163. because they preach as the Prophets did both which also by what after ensueth shall yet more fully be made to appear Nor do I marvell therfore that this unhappy Logick should so shrewdly stick in your stomack e Reply ibid. I may see you say what this Logick hath brought me to e Reply

a Phil. 3 8. he esteemed all things besides as b 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 scoria faex Dioscorid l. 5. c. 85. unde 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plut. in Themist dr●sse or c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 stercus Glossar 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hesych 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Etymol At Suidae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 mensae decidu● Charisio qisqiliae Prisciano frumenti purgamen a aceres paleae Synesio capitis furfures sordes dung for the word may bear either in regard of Christ the eminent knowledge of him and his interest in him yet did he not so abandon his former reading in Poets as wholly to refuse or reject all use of them but is observed to have d Ex Arato Act. 17.28 ex Epimenide Tit. 1. 12. alleadged some passages out of them and that in likelihood also in his elder age For mine own part Poetry I never professed nor was ever heard or seen on any Scene whether your self have or no I know not nor is it ought to me nor do I list to enquire Howbeit in their writings I acknowledge that I have been somtime somewhat versed and some of those things that I then red in them are not yet utterly lost with me nor am I ashamed as occasion is offered to make use of them no more then that blessed Apostel was tho they be the least part of that which you might have met with in my margin either here or elswhere z Euripideum Socrat. hist l. 3. c. 16. utriusqe esse potuit Vide Clem. strom l. 6. Gell. l. 23 c. 17. But Sir what is all this to any point in qestion between you and me at present what is the filling of my margin with things and Autors of lesse valew then Christ crucified which yet for want of better and more pertinent matter helps to fill and make up the main body of your Epistle and comes in again to eech out the e Conclus p. 17. close of your book unto the businesse in debate either the clearing of your selfe from your arrogant censures and groundlesse aspersions of Gods faithfull servants and your blasphemous jeeres fastened through their sides on Gods Prophets which winde and turn you which way you will you will never be able to elude and which had you any dram of ingenuity left in you you well might and would in the eyes of men at least be ashamed of tho in Gods sight f See Gods eye on his Isr Pref. p. 2. the principles layd by you and those of your strain do openly professe and proclaim that you neither are not ought to be ashamed of ought and which being altogether unable to wipe off you therefore slily slip by and return no Answer at all to Or what is my being Comicall and Poëticall in mine old age which you have once again a fling at making it g 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Prora puppis ut Graecorum proverbium est Cicer. ad Tiron epist 24. prow and poop as they use to say h Caput cavda head and tail of your discourse tho I know no reason why any Divine may not exercise his Poëtry if he have a vain that way which my self never had and that in his old age too as i Gregor Naz. Pavlin Nolan Theodor Beza alii innumeri many worthy and religious persons have done but what is this I say unto the cleering or strengthing of ought excepted against in your book or to the removing or weakning of any objection made against it It was long since observed to be an k 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aristot rhetor l. 3. c. 14. ill sign and such as might well give just suspition of a bad cause when men fly out from the matter in present debate and either l In adversae partis advocatos invehuntur ubi defecerint alia conviciis implent vacua cavsarum si contingit veris si● minus fictis fall foul upon the person of him with whom they are to debate it or make m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Aeschin ad Ctesiph excursions into by-matters snatching and catching at every thing that comes in their way as desirous to be dealing rather with any thing then that wherein they find themselves wringed Which whither herein you do or no I am well content that others judge As for what you subjoyn concerning your former raptures which you professe now to be shamed of and of your present strains of a more glorious Spirit for the former what they have been I wot not nor am I curious to make inqiry If they were such as you may justly be ashamed of you have good cause to repent of them as n Psal 25.7 David did in his later dayes of his younger slips and excesses if you think David at least a fit precedent for you to follow which the insolency of those of your way doth disdaine And for the latter to wit your straines of a more glorious spirit not unlike your vaunting els-where of o Treatise p. 28. a more glorious light it will peradventure with some no injudicious Readers be deemed not to want some smach of vain-glory especially laid together with the glittering Title of your former Treatise and that height of scorn and contempt which therein you expresse of p Treat p. 40. the divinity and the Divines a tearm that ye here seem to jeer at tho formerly used by you both of these dayes and former times Your conclusion is That you hope you shall be no more in passion with me then with my brother of the Assembly M. LEY Truly Sir this latter hope seems wholy frustrate as well as the former for you have already here expressed passion enough if not pride and Magisteriality also mixt with it Or what was it but passion that carried you into this digression and what is it but pride and Magisteriality to censure for that which you convince not to be evill and to reprove without proofe And surely Sir if your Answer to me be of the same stamp with that of yours to Mr Ley I shall look for little in it but a few froathy sqibs slightings of matters objected and vain boastings of your self For of such is your Answer to him in a manner wholy made up fruits of passion rather then of judgement and reason But you write you say to edifie not to conqer nor to teach others but that we may be all taught of God Sir you write riddels whom intend you by your writing to edifie if not others or how to edifie them if not by teaching it is true indeed that unlesse men be q Esai 54.13 Ioh. 6.45 taught of God all humane r 1 Cor. 3.6 7. teaching will do litle good but neither can man edify any without him and the case therefore being alike in either where the difference in this regard should ly between edifying and teaching my shallow brain is not

were come together Thus is the Assemblie turned and transformed as Master S. his weathercock turns to and fro Now Sir just in the same manner you deal with Master G. For while it seemes you conceived some hope of gaining him to your side at least so far forth to win and work on him as to render him somewhat favourable and inclinable thereunto by faining him one that acknowledged no great difference between us and you while this I say lasted Master G. was one of those r Treat p. 210. men of learning and judgement that do not cry out Antinomianism on free grace or free justification as others do But since he hath begun to touch your free hold and to deal a little more freely with your work and that hope it seems is utterly qasht now is Mr. G. become a ſ Repl. pag. 2● froward old man and one that may justly come under censure for his bitternesse against the Antinomians his brethren and yet all the bitternesse I stand charged with must be out of that book concerning my cariage wherein Mr. S. himself was pleased formerly to afford me this testimony sufficient I hope if his certificate may serve to discharge me of this guilt Nor is it an argument of an embittered Spirit to discover the vilenesse and perniciousnesse of such Opinions as persons either of corrupt judgement or bad conscience or both endevour to taint and poyson the souls of Gods people with 3. What your next interrogatorie tendeth to of seeking mine own things in preaching and obeying and making again of godlinesse he that hath but half an eye yet may easily discrie This you would cast as an aspersion not upon me alone but upon our whole Ministerie as t Reas for Vnity 13. Sec. 5. elsewhere that receive and are sustained by such maintainance as the Laws of the land have allotted us And it must be returned back unto you as a base calumnie untill you are able to see into mens hearts 4. Concerning our fastings and repentance they are such themes indeed as those of your way cannot endure to hear of and it is not unlikely but they could very well be content to have all exhortations to or injunctions of repentance razed out of the New Testament as well as u See Gods eye Pref. p. 18. that petition for remission of sins out of the Lords prayer For as for Fasts it is well known what some of them have been convinced to have taught to wit that x In Star-chamber before the Committe of the House of Commons by them reported to the House There ought to be no Fasting days under the Gospel Nor ought beleevers to afflict their souls no not in a day of humiliation that To fast in obedience to civil commands of men is to be servants of men And your aim Sir here is apparent enough to aspers and traduce our monthly fasts by autoritie enjoyned But the impresse of autoritie commanding us to convene is not of that nature that it must needs either imprint such a stamp of impietie and profanenesse upon our hearts or so damp all gratious affections and dispositions in our souls that we should thereby be disabled to the performance of that duty with true meltings of heart and sound humiliation no more then it was presumed or deemed so to do in those solemn fasts recorded in the word that were a 2 Chr. 20.3 Joel 2.15 16. called and commanded by religious Kings yea and some also b John 3.7 scarce such And I marveil why you let slip the observation of the Sabbath by autoritie enjoyned which those of your way begin also to disclaim affirming that c Qomodo Diogenes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plut. de Tranq Vel potius ut Theocr. Idyl 14. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 every day with them is a Sabbath 5. For your last of invention and art and learning under which head also I hope that heathenish piece of Logik comes which your soul so much abhorres used in preaching and praying any one that is but lightly acqainted with the humours of the times may easily discern the drift of it to comply with those that cry down all necessity and use of any learning and to help to bear up and bear out the rude rapsodies of those that from the loom-work or the cutting-bord or the washing ball and the like stepping up into the pulpit and supposing it enough to make there a great noise throw out boldly what comes next to hand with them making prayers and sermons without head or foot 9. But to passe from your not professed aims tho to any eye apparent and transparent enough through the choise of such matter as you picked out to instance in and insist on and to come to that which you pretend and would seem onely to drive at that upon due consideration d Concl. Ibid. there would be found so much of self and hypocrisie and vanitie and flesh and corruption in all those our performances that all would prove unprofitable 1. It is not denied that even the best-performances of the very best of Gods servants are more or lesse tainted with sin some with a slighter stain some with a deeper dye Paul himself that e Act. 9.15 choise vessell of grace found within himself the flesh and the spirit so intermingled that f Rom. 7.21 23. nothing came with him from the one but it still received some light tincture at least from the other yea that which was sometime spoken by the Prophet Esay tho I suppose g De sensu genuino videantur Luther Calvinus Muscul in loc conferatur cum Mic. 7.4 the genuine meaning of the place to be other to wit that h Isa 64.6 All our righteousnesses are as a menstruous cloth yet may truly be affirmed of all even the good actions of the godly and i Orig. in Rom. 3. Hieron in Isa August nom soliloq cap. 28. Greg. in Job l. 21. c. 15. Hugo in Job 9.30 Bern. de verb. Isa 5. alibi saepe Perald sum tract 6. Dionys in Psal 132. Ferus in Matth. 12. alibi Oecolamp Buleng Alii in loc Luther assert art 31. Perkins Reform Cath. Abbots Defen Chamier Panstr tom 3. lib. 11. cap. 18. Cajet in 2 Cor. 5. Pigh de fide justif Morus Apol. pro Erasm Alii so not a few as well Papists at Protestants old as new Writers doe either expound it or apply it Nor is it denied but that many yea the best of Gods Saints have had their failings and some of them grievous ones of other manner then any of those by Mr. S. here mentioned 2. It is apparent that notwithstanding these either defects or defaults yet the Holy Ghost hath pronounced them to be k 1 King 3.6 9.4 15.11 14. 2 Chr. 15.17 upright-hearted and l Luk. 1 16. righteous in Gods sight and that they have hereupon assured themselves of