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A04491 A dialoge describing the originall ground of these Lutheran faccions, and many of their abuses, compyled by syr William Barlow chanon, late byshop of Bathe; Dyaloge descrybyng the orygynall ground of these Lutheran faccyons, and many of theyr abusys Barlow, William, d. 1568. 1553 (1553) STC 1462; ESTC S101046 40,661 178

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euer were before our daies ye theyr hatefull ennemyte is so malycyous that yf anye of the Oecolampadyanes resorte amonge the Lutheranes they shal be excommunicated as hethen personnes and fynd very small charyte whiche they call loue after the newe interpretatyon And in lyke maner y● Lutheranes shall fynde as lyttle fauour amonge the Oecolampadyanes The thyrde faction be called Anabaptysts because they are twyse Chrystened and wyll admyt none as theyr faythfull brethren except they be rebaptyzed agayne They suffre not theyr chyldren to be Chrystened vntyll they be of greate age and haue manye straunge opynyons They affyrme that it is impossyble for Kynges prynces iustices and other gouernours of the comon weale to be Christē men They obstynately hold that it is vnlawfull for a iudge to requyre any othe of a Christē mā They saye that chrysten men oughte to make no prouysyon nor resistence agaynste theyr enemies but frelye suffer thē to do their wyll Also they shewe holy perfection outwardly obseruynge vygyles fastynges wyth contynuall readynge of scrypture redye to helpe theyr nedy brothren vsynge theyr goodes in commone And they disprayse much the lyuyng of the Lutheranes Oecolampadians sayenge as I haue hard them my selfe report that they be worse than the cleargye whom they call Papistes for because they haue the Gospel in theyr monthes and frame theyr lyues nothynge thereafter shewynge none amendment of their ●ewd conuersation but continue styll in vycyous excesses after the common rate of mysbeleuers And therefore they be in greuous hatred and suffre muche persecution of the other as excommunication exyle emprysonment oftentymes cruell execution of death insomoche that it is enacted throughoute Suytzerland among the Oecolampadyanes and in dyuers other places that whosoeuer is founde of the Anabaptystes faction he shall be throwen quycke into the water there drowned N. I se well than sayenge and doynge are not al one For I am enformed that Martyn Luther hath wryten extremely agaynst the persecution of Prelates affyrmynge it to be agaynste the spyryte of God to persecute or to put to death for vnbeleife or errours consyderynge that faith as he doth saye is a gyfte of god no man maye haue it of hym selfe Also because Chryste neuer compelled anye man to beleue in hym cōmaundynge the wedes to be suffered amonge the corne vntyll the heruest cōmeth W. No fayle he wrote so at the begynninge but after warde experience taught hym the contrarye For if so be that he the Oecolampadians had permitted theyr clientes to do what they lusted without any restraynte they had ben quite oute of auctorite ere this tyme a daye Apon which consideration it was forfended in all cyties and iurisdictiones of the Lutherans that no man shuld bye or sell other receaue anye booke or treatyse compyled by the Oecolampadyanes And they in lyke maner made actes to suppresse the Anabaptystes fearyng least theyr sectes shuld vaynquysh theyr faccyon N. Yf the Anabaptists haue so many sectes as ye recyte I praye you to declare some of them W. At your instaunce I shall gladly There be some whyche holde opynyon that al deuylles damned soules shal be saued at the daye of dome Some of them perswade that the Serpent which dysceaued Eue was Christ Some of thē graunt to euerye man and woman two soules Some affyrme lecherye to be no synne y● one maye vse another mannes wyfe withoute offence Some take vpon them to be sooth say ers and Prophetes of wonder full thynges to come and haue prophesyed the daye of iudgement to be at hande some with in three monethes some with in one monneth some wythin vi dayes Some of them both men and women at theyr congregatyons for a mysterye ▪ shewe them selues naked affyrmynge that they be in the state of innocencye Also some holde that no man ought to be punisshed or suffre execucyon for any cryme or trespace be it neuer so horryble whereof I wyl shew you an example done mater in dede In Switzerland a lytle frō saynt Gal at a place named Cella Abbatis one of these Anabaptistes slewe his owne brother smote of hys heade When he was demaūded why he dydde so this was his aunswer It was the wyll of the father that I should do it and so he escaped wythoute punysshemente For thoughe they be gredy in reprouing other mēs fawtes makynge haynous exclamations agaynst them yet ponder they full lytle the correctyon of theyr owne enormityes callynge them infyrmytyes and weaknes of the fleshe be they neuer so abhomynable N Well yet me thynketh by youre sayinge here before that many of them leade a more cōmēdable lyfe in face of the world than the common sort of the Lutheranes or Oecolampadians W. ye verelye vnto the outwarde ostentation But there cometh greater inconuenience by theym whiche haue suche a shadowe of holy lyuynge than by the other And there is nothynge more peryllous in sedu cynge the symple than a paynted pretence of an holye lyfe where as they swerue ones frō the ryght fayth and catholyke beleife Whiche is easye to be proued by euydente examples as well of the olde heretiques as of oure new Captaynes of the moste hye heresies And to shew you the trueth as I haue expertely founde some I haue knowen so angelyke of conuersation that I coulde haue founde in my harte to commytte my soule wholy into theyr dyrection whom afterwarde I haue perfytelye perceyued to be auctours of such detestable heresies that it wold make a christē hart to tremble for to here thē ones named And to tell you of one amonge manye I was aquaynted with a certayn personne of the Oecolampadians in the citie of Argentyne whiche led a lyfe inculpable amonge his neighbours and was reputed of vertuous conuersation exercysynge hym self contynually in charytable workes and vnderstode freshelye the scryptures in his mother tonge for he was ignoraunte of Latyne Afterwarde he fell into so abhominable heresie that he denied openly the new testament sayinge that Christ was a false Prophete and all his apostles disceuers acceptynge no part of the olde Testament but the fyue bookes of Moyses The cheif preachers and lerned mē of the cytye came vnto hym for to reforme hym by waye of dysputatyon and to brynge hym from his erroure requyrynge hym to shewe what ground of Scripture or what occasiō moued hym to take so peryllous opynyon To whome he answered coldly with soft wordes demure countenaunce how he woulde nether dispute nor argue with theym sayinge that it was his beleif was assured of God with witnesse of his cōscience to be trewe Apon this incōtinent he was enprysoned and at laste brought before the lordes of the towne whiche in lyke manner exhorted hym to reuoke his heresyes manacynge hym with feare of terrible death if he would not chaūge hys erronious mynde He answered that he was redy to suffre whatsoeuer death God had ordeyned hym vnto and woulde nether for fear nor for fauour