one onely one is translated into English and the other is left in Greek untranflated And so whilst thou saist thou dost not know that any Scripture calls it Christs washing or baptism confesses and calls it inward washing thy self so that by thy own confession there is no more difference between the inward washing and cleansing by the Spirit and Christs baptism then there is between baptizing in Greek and washing in English which is all one and the word baptism might as well have been translated washing in all places of the Scripture as in one place had it not made for the upholding of the Trade of the Translators and for the continuing of much idolatry and ignorance in the world and whereas thou sayest it is not called Christs Baptism what Baptism was that the Apostles speak of 1 Cor. 12.13 For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body whether we be Jews or Gentiles and what Baptism was that which Paul speaks of Rom. 6.3 4. by which they were baptized into Christ and into his death and were buried with Christ by Baptism and by it planted into the likeness of his death whereby they knew that the old man was crucified with him that the body of sin might be destroyed that henceforth they might not serve sin for he that was thus dead and buried with Christ was free from sin which your water doth not do nay do not you who are washed with water plead against freedom from sin and say it is not attainable in this world and therefore it is strongly to be suspected that as your Baptism is wrong so is your faith also seeing the Scripture saith as many as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ and put off the old man with his deeds by being planted into the likeness of his death and by being buried with him by Baptism and in the 1 Cor. 6.11 where the Apostle saith they were washed and sanctified and justified by the spirit c. what difference is there by being washed or cleansed by the spirit and by being baptized by the spirit seeing washing and Baptizing is all one and if thou wert come to the full assurance of faith and knewest what it was to have thy heart sprinkled from an evil conscience then thou wouldst know what that pure water was with wch the Saints had their bodies washed Heb. 10.22 But thou concludest that Christs Baptism is not now in being because those tongues and miracles thou speaks of are not in being that thou know of and so justifies thy self that the one baptism is meant water baptism Christs baptism or the Baptism of the spirit was some extraordinary thing and was to confer upon them a larger measure of gifts fitting then to spread the Gospel c. and therefore one principal gift bestowed by that Baptism was the gift of tongues to this I spake before about fire Baptism as in Acts the second and saith other places both before in the sixth page and now but names none by which I conclude thou hast no place to prove the Holy Ghosts Baptism thou speaks of but that of Acts 2. and what ground thou hast to call that fire Christs Baptism or the Baptism promised that Christ should come withal I know not since there is not one word in that second of the Acts at the beginning that speaks of Baptism where it is said there came a sound from Heaven as of a rushing mighty wind and it filled all the house where they were sitting And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire and it sate upon each of them and they were all filled with the Ghost and began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance Where is this called the Baptism of Christ or the Baptism of the Holy Ghost the word Baptism is no more named here neither in Greek nor English and yet this thou wouldst have by all means to be the only Baptism of the Holy Ghost promised and some other places where both the word Baptism in Greek and the word washing in English is spoken off must not be the Baptism of the spirit that was promised and was to continue when outward water was to cease but why should thou speak of miracles and tongues so much seeing tongues were for a sign not for them which believed but for them which believed not and thou accounts thy self a believer 1 Cor. 14.22 But James Pope why dost thou seem to grant inward washing and cleansing by the spirit to be a washing or Baptism of the spirit seeing thou hast spent so much time to prove inward washing and cleansing to be none of the spirits baptism and yet sums up the query thy self in these words whether the Baptism of water or the inward washing and cleansing by the spirit be the one Baptism which Paul writs of or why writs he but of one if both must be continued to which thou grants both must be continued and yet saith it is water Baptism he writs of So that thou seems to grant what thou wouldst deny and to deny what thou wouldst grant but thou art in a strait and truth is too hard for thee for if thou grant the spirits Baptism to continue then thy water Baptism must down because there is but one and therefore of the two thou hadst rather the spirits Baptism should cease then thine and yet if thou should deny inward baptizing or cleansing to be out of use then thou wert no Christian and therefore thou hast sowed as good a covering together as fig leaves will make to hide thy nakedness withal and to save thy water Baptism and thinks to do it by calling inward baptizing with the Holy Ghost inward cleansing and washing by the spirit and so sets up two words to contend each with other whilst thou thereby thinkest to amaze the Reader that thou may escape with thy water to be the one Baptism that is to continue and yet in thy first answer saith both must continue inward Baptism because no entrance into the Kingdom without it and water must continue because it is Christs Ordinance fitted to the New Testament as Circumcision was to the Old In thy next Book James prove it an Ordinance commanded by Christ to be practiced after his Ascention in plain words and not by an invented consequence least you are found guilty of that for which you condemned the Priests of England viz. for proving their Baptism by a consequence and will not this be much to your shame to have your Commision to prove by a consequence and not by plain and positive Scripture for a Commissioner by consequence onely is no Commissioner But James me thinks thou comes too near the Priests of England in bringing Circumcision and Baptism together dost thou not lay thy self open to some disadvantage in this was one Ordinance a type of another or one figure a type of another figure what confusion is here is not this Priests
thy brethren then thou art at present sensible of but if repentance prevent not in time thou mayest feel the weight In thy 2. page thou saist That thou dost wish that Thomas White and his friends may also carefully walk by the rule T.W. prescribeth to thee and thy friends then thou saist he will be so far from speaking against his holy appointments that he will love and keep them maist thou not be judged out of thy own mouth Did Thomas White shoot a fiery dart and dost thou not shoot a poisoned arrow and dost not thou charge him with speaking against Gods holy appointments and as if he neither loved them nor kept them nor delighted in those that did How many falsities and untruths are here in two lines was it no better then a reviling slander in Thomas White and didst thou judge it so and therefore saith that thou thinkest that he ought to be deeply humbled before the Lord for the same because he said while many of you are professing praying and yet stumbling at contending against that in which alone all worship c. is accepted in the sight of God Is his offence so great because he did not name them though he knew them and is thy offence mitigated because thou names Thomas White but chargest him falsely with that which thou canst not prove against him and yet calls thy sayings a plea for truth c as if thy Title to thy Book were to priviledge thy calumnies and Authority sufficient to pass thy reproaches without a review or farther examination but thy beautiful Title is but like the Pharisees beautifying the outside of the cup and platter while the inside was foul and like Pilate who wrote a good Title over Christ calling him King of the Jews but delivered him up to be crucified as a blasphemer So thy fair Title doth but aggravate thy offence in that thou slanders the innocent and calls it a plea for truth in love to truth as if light and darkness could unite together and truth and falshood marry each other which neither can be neither shall they go unpunished who go about to reconcile them In the 3. page of thy Book thou askest Thomas White in those words why dost thou upbraid us do we say that the Scriptures direct not to or speak not of a light within we both know and say that the Scripture saith 2 Cor. 4.6 that God hath shined in the hearts of his Saints to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ James Pope when thou saist do we say and we both know and say c. Dost thou onely intend thy self and some one or two more or dost thou intend all the Baptists generally seeing that thy self may not be ignorant how many Baptists have both in Print and disputes publikely disowned the light within that checks and reproves for sin to be sufficient to lead to salvation which thou seems to acknowledge in words to be true and chargest Thomas White for upbraiding of you in that he saith are not many of you strangers to the light whilst you are questioning whether the Scriptures declare of or direct to a light within c. which thing hath often been questioned by many Baptists and such as are none of the least in esteem among you and if thou wilt declare against them that have so questioned and disputed and deny fellowship with them for not being sound in the faith I may help thee to a Catalogue of their names the publike dispute at Dunstable may bring some of them to thy remembrance But are you not better informed then you were some years since and somewhat rectified in your judgements if so let the praise be given to God and your former errours and mistakes be printed and published for others to take heed by especially seeing many who are called Baptists in England are yet in the dark and questioning what thou on the behalf of thy brethren seems to confesse to and let your unity make it appear that you do not onely confesse to the light within that checks and reproves for sin to be that alone which gives the knowledge of God in the face of Christ and that a man cannot have the knowledge of God in Christ until the light give it to him but also that you walk in the light and have fellowship one with another in the light and that in it you witness the blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse you from all sin that so none of you may stumble at the Doctrine of perfection but if you say you have fellowship with God and are in the fellowship of the Gospel and walk in darkness and stumble at figures and shadows you lie and do not the truth for in him is no darkness at all And whereas thou sayest Thomas White deals uncharitably with you in putting you in the number of those that are lost in whom the God of this world hath blinded their eyes c. It is no uncharitableness to speak the truth and to say that those who are stumbling at that which is given them to lead out of darkness are such as the God of this world hath blinded their minds and that such are in a lost estate and the Gospel of their salvation they do not know for it is hid from them and he that judges such so to be is not uncharitable but his judgement is just and the uncharitableness doth light upon thy own head And whereas thou sayest in these words thou must give me leave to query how thou darest abuse us c. James thy tongue is too much thy own in speaking leesing for leave I do not give thee to query of that which is not for that is breath spent in vain for it is no abuse to query how they can professe they know God who deny the light of his Son within but leaves out these following words viz. in which the Father is revealed and by which that that may be known of God is made manifest in man is this a plea for truth in love to truth to take half a sentence or so much as may serve to make a cavil and leave out that which is the main and explanatory part of the whole or is it rather in imitation of him who made use of Scripture to tempt Christ withal but left out what might make against his design may he not justly be charged as a transgressor that shall say there is no God though he quote the Scripture for it which saith there is no God but leaves out the foregoing words which makes the saying true which is that the fool hath said in his heart there is no God doth thy crime differ in any thing from his that should so say more then this that he leave out the foregoing words and thou leaves out Thomas Whites following words and to say that such a one is a deceitful worker and for it must come to judgement is but to
Unrighteousness NO PLEA FOR TRUTH Nor Ignorance a Lover of it Being an Answer to a book called A Plea for Truth in love to Truth subscribed by James Pope Wherein is contained his Answer to several Queries sent to him by Thomas White which are tried and found unsatisfactory and James Popes Ten Queries to the people called Quakers fully answered Also the Doctrine and Practise of the People called Baptists examined and weighed in the true ballance and found too light With a full discussion of their Principles and particularly their Ordinances of breaking bread and water-baptism c. With some Queries to all the People called Baptists wheresoever they are to be found for them to answer in Truth and Righteousnesse and in Gods fear By a true Lover of all their souls and eternal welfare JOHN CROOK Try all things and hold fast that which is good For enquire I pray thee of the former age and prepare thy selfe to the search of their fathers Job 8.8 He shall lean upon his house but it shall not stand he shall hold it fast but it shall not endure Job 8.15 Printed for Tho. Simmons at the Bull Mouth near Aldersgate 1659. THE PREFACE THe Lord of Hosts is arisen and arising in his power to shake the earth and not onely the Earth but Heaven also that that which cannot be shaken may remain and this shaking is for the removing of those things which are shaken as of things that are made And for Alaruming of the World and awakening all professions and Professors that so every man may betake himself to his God and he that answers by fire and consumes the chaffe and stubble let him be God and all bow before him that so his Name may be exalted above every name and that to him every knee may bow both of things in Heaven and things in Earth for to him must all bow and bend and the Prophet which he hath raised up must all hear or be cut off from among the people and this Prophet is like unto Moses and must go before Israel to lead the holy Seed out of Aegypt and to divide the Sea for Israel to passe and to stand in the gap to intercede that so the Lords wrath may be appeased but they that refuse him that speaks cannot escape Therefore Reader whosoever thou art take heed that thou neglect not this the day of thy visitation nor that great salvation which is proffered to thee in the light of Christ for if thou harden thy heart against it thou cannot prosper neither canst thou ever hear his voyce nor see his shape but in the light for he will not alwayes strive with thee neither will he accept an offering at thy hand while thou rebels against his light that shines in thy heart to give thee the knowledge of God in Christ for Gods soul is weary of all vain oblations that are offered up in the wills of men and of their humility that is feigned and of al their Assemblies though they multiply them while obedience and hearkening to his voyce in the conscience is not regarded Therefore turn ye turn ye to the true light that with it you may see your selves and from that sight receive the sentence of death upon your selves that you may not trust in your selves but in the living God that so every one of you may know by experience that by grace you are saved not of your selves but by the free gift and this free gift may lead and guide you in all your Worship that so self may have no share in it but every one of you may be justified before the Lord both in your sayings and doings that you may be able to endure sound Doctrine which searches the heart and tryes the reins and keeps low waiting for the fulfilling of the promise viz. That all the people of the Lord shall be taught of the Lord may not heap up teachers to your selves to please the itching ear And what thou meetest with in this discourse that may seem sharp or piercing take it as the smiting of a friend not given to hurt the life but to wound that nature and birth which must not be heir with the free-born but must be cast out or else to the Inheritance of the Saints in light thou canst not come nor into the holy City thou canst not enter which hath been trodden under foot though thou may dwell in the outward courts for that must be given to the Gentiles Therefore hast hast hast and come out least being partaker of the sin thou be partaker of the plague also and meet the Lord while he is nigh and call upon him while he may be found least the door be shut and there be no entrance for thee JAMES POPE HAving seen a Paper with thy name subscribed to it in answer to a Paper of Thomas Whites directed to the People called Baptists which thou calls A Plea for Truth in love to Truth which Title agreeth not with thy Book if thou intendest the writing following thy Title Page and so on to the end of the Book For in the third line of thy Book I finde a saying which is none of Truths Plea which is the cause and inducement that moved thee to write thy following discourse in these words It hath moved me to write this following answer because none else that thou knowest of hath done it What thou meanest by it hath moved thee I do not understand because thou hast given two Reasons of thy writing of thy Book one is because thou sayest thou art one of those people to whom Tho. White directed his Paper and thy second Reason seems to be because thou hadst two of those Papers given to thee and then saith It hath moved thee to write this following Answer c. This savors more of the voice of a stranger then to be Truths Plea If by it thou intendest the Spirit of God why didst thou not name it Or dost thou question its Authority as not being sufficient of it self without some other motive or dost thou not intend that at all as not believing it necessary to such a work or as not being thy rule to walk by or wast thou when thou began to write thy Book as one surprized with fear speaking that which thou understood not thy self and so let it pass as hoping it might meet with the same acceptance from the Reader being cloathed with this beautiful Title of A Plea for truth in love to Truth and then begins thy Book thus Forasmuch as I am one of those people to whom Thomas White hath directed his Paper and having two of those Papers given to me it hath moved me to write this following Answer because none else that I know of hath done it James Pope I may justly suspect to find more of thy Pleas to be none of Truths neither come they from Truth nor tend they to the Honour of Truth onely thou makes use of the Name Truth as a
baptism was not the Circumcision of the flesh a type of the Circumcision of the heart and was not water Baptism a figure of the inward washing by the Lavor of regeneration and is called a figure 1 Pet. 3.21 of that that saves not the washing away the filth of the flesh which was the outward baptism but the inward washing and answer of a good conscience by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ which is known by all who have their hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience by the flesh of Jesus Christ How is Baptism fitted any more to the new witness then any other thing commanded or practiced by the Saints if thou knew the new witness which he that believes hath in himself thou wouldst know there is no more outward water in it then outward fire but thou speaks words by tradition and understandest not what thou sayest was Circumcision any otherwise fitted to the old witness or Testament then as a figure of the true cutting off from the body of sin by the Circumcision of Christ and is Baptism any otherwise fitted to the new Testament then as a figure also and when the substance is come they both end in him who is the substance And for thy saying Christs Disciples were to teach succeeding Disciples what ever he had commanded them c. but water is not mentioned to be commanded them by Christ and therefore not to teach water having it not in charge Again thou sayest he promised his presence with them to the end of the world if his presence with them then is he not a commander to them and are they not to receive the word at is mouth seeing God speaks by him in these last dayes and he is the same yesterday to day and for ever or was and did Christ only speak with and to his twelve disciples and they to deliver over by tradition what he told them or were the Saints without Christs presence for divers hundred years after his departure oâ—t of the world before the New Testament was gathered together and bound in one Book seeing the Epistles were scattered up and down in divers parts of the world some many hundred miles distant one Epistle from another and how long after and by whose command were they gathered together or is Christs presence with his people and yet he speaks not to them imediately or is Christ less powerful then he was or is his love abated or did he speak once for all and will he never speak more imediately or else what doth Christs presence signifie now if not to speak to them lead them and save them otherwise what is man the better for such a presence as he knows not nor is not sensible of or hath Christ ceased to be a King seeing where the presence of a King is there is power or is a man only to believe he hath Christs presence with him while other Lords have Dominion over him or hath Christ left his people to pick out his worship as well as he can here and there a little out of all the Epistles and other Books by their own judgements and understandings Is not this to make the New Testament inferior to the Old where Israels Laws were together in Tables and in some particular places and books as Deut Levit. c If you be the succeeding Disciples and are to observe all things that those were to observe and had in command why are you not going into all Nations to Preach the Gospel in every creature but stay at home in your country or have you not Christs presence with you and so dare not venture too far but what singular thing do you do whereby it may appear you have Christs presence with you and are indeed the succeeding Disciples thou speaks of or is it not rather manifest you are none of his Disciples seeing he never taught nor practiced such customs and conformities to the world as are practiced among many called baptists besides this legible mark they do not love one another but bite and devour one another about those things they call Christs Ordinances and appointments and if this be true which Christ said viz. by this shall all men know you are my Disciples if you love one another then whose Disciples are those who hate one another how is Christs presence with them while these things abide among them Then thou gives thy reason why thou sayest that of water is the one Baptism Paul writes of viz. because the other is not called Baptism but it is called washing by the spirit 1 Cor. 6.11 divers other places as before is proved so it is either the thing or the word thou denyes if the thing it is sufficiently proved to be called washing which is all one with baptizing as Luke 11.38 And when the Pharisee saw it he marvelled that he had not first baptized before dinner or washed as some Translators read it If the word baptism be that which thou denyes where is the word Baptism attributed to fire or where is it said they were baptized with fire and yet thou urges the second of Acts to prove Baptism with fire when there is not the word baptism there onely like as of fire But then thou sayest if it were called Baptism yet were it a Metaphorical and not a proper Baptism c. James thou mayest remember in thy six page thou sayest to the Law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them out of thy own mouth mayest thou be judged where is there one such a word in the Law or testimony as Metaphorical if it be not there to be found may it not be said without offence thou speaks not according to the Law and testimony therefore there is no light in thee for thou sayest plainly it is not a proper baptism surely James thou knowest it not and therefore miscals it for if ever thou had witnessed it or knew what it were to be baptized into Christ and to put on Christ thou would not so speak of it to call it not a proper Baptism What did John who baptized with water baptize with a proper baptism and Christ of whom he bore witness baptize with an improper baptism or a baptism not proper was ever such grosse absurdities affirmed as that the messenger and servant should baptize with the proper Baptism and the Master himself with a Baptism not proper Is the servant become above his master or is the Masters work onely Metaphorical and not proper what is not the washing away of sins a proper washing and is not the lavor of regeneration a proper washing or baptising and is not that with wch those Apostles and others who were baptized or washed by the spirit a proper washing or baptizing and those that had their bodies washed with pure water was not that a proper washing Is not this to darken counsel again by words without knowledge and by mens traditions and
this place is to satisfie his Disciples that murmured about his telling them of of eating his flesh and drinking his blood and to take them off from looking at his outward fleshly presence as if his outward flesh or outward words were that which they were to feed upon or alwaies to expect to hear but there was another flesh to be known and other work to be read in the inward man by the Spirit for that quickneth and those words are Spirit and life but the flesh profiteth nothing so by this may the enlightned understanding see and read plainly the scope and drift of Christs Words and not to be spoken in that sence which thou and others in your vain minds conceive but have a deeper understanding which the children of light are acquainted withal so that the Query yet remains unanswered by thee viz. what then is the flesh that profiteth nothing And for thy answer to the second part of the Query viz. and what is that flesh after which Christ was once known yet henceforth know we him so no more to which thou answerest To know any man or Christ after the flesh it was to know according to the natural line of Abram and so according to the first Covenant but now know we him no more that is not by a natural descent but he that is in Christ is a new Creature and all the old things of the first Covenant are passed away and all things are become new and thou quotes Philip. 3.3 4 5. and saith We will help to clear the sence of this place viz. what is that flesh after which Christ was once known yet henceforth know we him so no more By this answer to the Query thou hast but manifested thy ignorance of Christ after the Spirit for doth the knowledge of Christ after the Spirit teach to deny the natural descent of Christ after the flesh seeing it is reckoned up as one of the Israelites Priviledges viz. of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came who is over all God blessed for ever Amen Rom. 9.4 5. Or is Christ changed from what he was Or is he the same yesterday and to day and for ever And doth the Apostle Paul teach to forget the Genealogy of Christ from Abram Or hath he forgotten his love to his brethren and kinsmen according to the flesh which he saith Rom. 9.3 he could wish himself separated from Christ for them Or doth he instrust children after they are come to the knowledge of Christ no more to know their Parents after the flesh or natural descent or any other man after any natural line Surely to say so had been crime enough against the people called Quakers then might thou have had some ground to cry out of their disrespect to Superiours and of the neglect of children in not obeying their Parents and subjects in not giving honour to Magistrates and of servants in not obeying of their Masters after the flesh which in thy Book thou seems to blame the Quakers for their remisness therein and dost thou do the same thing Or dost thou go about to interpret Pauls words to such a sence Whereas he himself was so far from denying his natural descent or linage or outward Priviledge that upon occasion he reckons it up again and again and stands upon it and is not condemned for it and doth he write to the Corinthians to know no man after the natural line or descent No not Christ himself What doth Paul make void Matthews and Lukes reckoning up of the natural line or descent of Christ from Abraham Are we no more to know Christ so What do the Christians with it in their Bibles then if Christ be no more to be known so But let us see if the Apostle Paul have one word tending that way in that place thou quotes 2 Cor. 5.16 For he is speaking how the love of Christ constrained them at the 14. ver and the cause of it because saith he we thus judge that if one died for all then were all dead and that he died for all that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves but unto him which died for them and rose again Wherefore from henceforth know we no man according to the flesh for so it is and some translations read it so yea though we have known Christ according to the flesh yet now henceforth know we him no more Therefore if any man be in Christ he is a new creature old things are past away behold all things are become new And all things are of God who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ c. James Pope what ground is here for thy conceived imagination therefore wait upon the Lord in the light of his Son that thou may be made alive by God by being his workmanship in Christ Jesus and then thou wilt know how the word henceforth in the 15. ver answers to the word henceforth in the 16. ver and then thou wilt see how such inventions and interpretations of thy own brain are some of those old things which then thou wilt behold passing away as thou becomes a new Creation and all things will be of God and in that day thou wilt know the first Covenant and its vanishing by the new everlasting Covenant which is Gods free gift but known to none who are alive without the Law and have their first husband living such must know a bitter cup and a day of death before ever they can be married to Christ Take this in love to thy Soul James Pope for this is the Word of the Lord to thee and is of nearer concernment to thee then as yet thou art aware of And for that of Philip. 3.3 4 5. it proves nothing of thy conceit and invention but rather may serve to condemn thee who art comparing outward circumcision and outward washing together as being fitted to the New Testament as outward circumcision was to the Old but we are the Circumcision which worship God in the Spirit and have no confidence in the flesh neither Faith in any outward washing with outward water but our Faith stands in Christ alone in whom we are compleat both as to the true Circumcision and to the one Baptism and to the one bread in which we have Communion together in the body and as many as are joyned to the Lord are one Spirit and are of one heart and one Soul and do not deny any of the Gospel Ordinances or plead for the abrogating of them as thou saist the Query seems to suppose but this we plead against will-worship and all likenesses and dead imitations in the worship of God for by the Gospel of our Salvation are we made alive and do not rush into Gods service without fear and the leadings of his Spirit having in times past felt by experience and smarted for having a form of godliness but not sensible of the power and a name to live and accounted as worshippers but were in the
which is drink indeed are nourished up to Eternal life so that while some do eat and drink in that Ordinance unworthily and so eat and drink damnation others by faith feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and so are nourished up to Eternal life Answ Is there any thing in the fore-cited place that directs to the use of that which thou cals an Ordinance surely in this thy zeal out-runs thy understanding seeing those be the words of the fore-cited place viz. for as often as ye eat this bread and drink this cup shew ye the Lords death till he come for so it is on the Margent shew ye what is here of direction in these words as to the use of an Ordinance as thou sayest let the wise in heart judge but doth not the Apostles words asmuch if not more signifie to the Corinthians that they might forbear their eating and drinking in that wise as they did eat and drink and their unworthiness was in not discerning of the Lords body and for that cause was many sick and weak c. and for that disorder which was amongst many the Apostle reproves them as for their greediness and drunkenness the like and exhorts them to eat at home in their own houses but he never calls it an Ordinance to be ministred once a Moneth or once a week and that alwayes by some men or man appointed by the rest in their wills and wayes some to buy wine and bread and others to break it and deliver to the rest but Christ did not do so for in the same night in which he was betrayed he took bread and when he had given thanks he brake it and said take eat this is my body this do in remembrance of me after the same manner also he took the cup when he had Supped and did he bid you do so or do you do so after Supper or can you give thanks as he did or do you know what he said when he gave thanks or do you imitate him in saying his very words in one thing viz. this is my body and do you speak your own words in other things as when you give thanks or do you take a piece of bread and a cup of wine and say nothing at all but eat and drink and if you do it not in the same manner which he did it in is it then his Ordinance or your invention seeing Gods Ordinances must be kept as they were delivered and observed as he commanded them otherwise they are none of his and if not his then but a likeness and if a likeness then that which God hath forbidden and so is Idolatry and he an Idolator that so worships and in that state cannot enter into the Kingdom of God And whereas thou sayest some might eat this bread and drink this cup which is also called flesh and blood unworthily Take heed James of calling a lie a plea for truth in love to truth remember the Title of thy book where is that bread and that cup which a man may eat unworthily called flesh and blood as thou positively affirms in thy query it is surely thou discerns not Christs body for if thou did thou wouldst learn to speak truth are not these the words of the Apostle that thou intendst viz. wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread and drink this cup of the Lord unworthily shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord but where is it called flesh and blood surely this is a gross errour of thine not onely to call the outward bread the outward cup which an unworthy and wicked man may eat and drink flesh and blood and if flesh and blood whose flesh and blood is it not Christs flesh and Christs blood and can an unworthy man and woman eat and drink that surely no if Christs words be true and I must believe him before thee James and he saith John 6.54 whosoever eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath Eternal life how sayest thou then in thy query some might eat this bread and drink this cup which thou sayest is also called flesh and blood unworthily but where is the bread the cup which some may eat and drink unworthily called flesh and blood take heed of slandering the Scripture And then thou drawest up thy query into a short conclusion in these words viz. so that while some do eat and drink in that Ordinance unworthily and so eat and drink damnation other by faith feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and so are nourished up to Eternal life and herein thou hast made a good confession that while some in that which thou calls an Ordinance eat and drink damnation others who live by faith and feed upon the benefits of Christs death and blood-shed and are not that which thou calls an Ordinance and yet are nourished up to Eternal life and so of what thou hast spoken this is the sum that some in that Ordinance eat and drink damnation and others out of it feed upon the living bread that comes down from heaven and have Eternal life abiding in them Q. 7. Whether those that deny Church fellowship do not forsake their own mercies seeing Gods children have found by sweet experience that it is of singular use for their building upon their most holy faith it being the place of Christs promised presence where he hath commanded the blessing and life for evermore Answ Those that deny that Church that is in God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ Thes 1. and that fellowship that is in the light as he is in the light 1 John â— denyes the true Church-fellowship and forsakes their own mercies and that light in which alone all the Saints ever had all their sweet experiences given them of Gods love and tender mercy to them and in that who ever walked and continued in it built up one another in their most holy faith that being the place of Christs promised presence for there he dwells for ever and out of his light none can meet with him or know him and out of that is the false Church and Church-fellowship and Christian outward and baptism outward that onely washes away the filth of the flesh but knows not the answer of a good conscience by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ for from the true light was and is the false Church and fellowship for they went out from us saith the Apostle who had his fellowship in the light Q. 8. Whether they may not most truely be said to live above Ordinances that faithfully wait upon and live to Christ in the use of them Answ They that wait upon and live to Christ in the use of Ordinances cannot be said to live above them for that which God hath appointed and Ordained as the way to Eternal life and happiness none may live above it for the the way and the life are one and he that is in the way is in the truth and in the life also