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acknowledgement_n the_o father_n be_v on_o our_o side_n orig._n hom._n 2._o in_o levit._n s._n chrys_n lib._n 3._o de_fw-fr sacerd._n s._n aug._n in_o speculo_fw-la &_o ser._n 215._o the_o temp_n vener_n bed_n in_o 6._o mark_v and_o s._n james_n and_o many_o other_o thus_o most_o sacred_a sir_n we_o have_v no_o reason_n to_o wave_v the_o scripture_n umpirage_n so_o that_o you_o will_v hear_v it_o speak_v in_o the_o mother_n language_n and_o not_o produce_v it_o as_o a_o witness_n on_o your_o side_n when_o the_o producer_n tell_v we_o nothing_o but_o their_o own_o meaning_n in_o a_o language_n unknown_a to_o all_o the_o former_a age_n and_o then_o tell_v we_o that_o she_o say_v so_o and_o they_o will_v have_v it_o so_o because_o he_o that_o have_v a_o bible_n and_o a_o sword_n shall_v carry_v away_o the_o meaning_n from_o he_o that_o have_v a_o bible_n and_o never_o a_o sword_n nor_o be_v it_o more_o blasphemy_n to_o say_v that_o the_o scripture_n be_v the_o church_n off_o spring_n 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eternity_n even_o according_a to_o his_o humane_a nature_n tax_v for_o it_o by_o zw_v in_o these_o word_n how_o can_v christ_n then_o be_v say_v to_o be_v bear_v of_o a_o woman_n 402._o he_o affirm_v that_o as_o christ_n die_v with_o great_a pain_n so_o he_o seeem_v to_o have_v sustain_v pain_n in_o hell_n after_o death_n 219._o that_o the_o divinity_n of_o christ_n suffer_v or_o else_o he_o be_v none_o of_o his_o christ_n 76._o that_o if_o the_o humane_a nature_n shall_v only_o suffer_v for_o he_o that_o christ_n be_v but_o a_o saviour_n of_o a_o vile_a account_n and_o have_v need_v himself_o of_o another_o saviour_n 454._o luther_n hold_v not_o only_a consubstantiation_n but_o also_o say_v hospinian_n that_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n both_o be_v and_o may_v be_v find_v according_a
and_o of_o expositor_n be_v so_o various_a that_o the_o more_o one_o read_v they_o the_o more_o uncertain_a 6._o he_o shall_v be_v and_o among_o other_o opinion_n he_o faith_n that_o some_o by_o the_o 24._o elder_n understand_v the_o whole_a church_n this_o exposition_n indeed_o he_o dislike_v upon_o this_o ground_n that_o the_o four_o beast_n speak_v of_o be_v not_o comprehend_v in_o the_o 24._o elder_n but_o he_o enervate_v this_o reason_n himself_o understand_v by_o the_o 24._o elder_n the_o most_o eminent_a among_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n and_o by_o the_o four_o beast_n the_o four_o evangelist_n who_o yet_o be_v of_o the_o number_n of_o those_o eminent_a saint_n and_o so_o the_o four_o beast_n be_v also_o part_n of_o the_o 24_o elder_n only_o he_o say_v they_o be_v mention_v apart_o by_o themselves_o as_o be_v out_o of_o that_o number_n because_o beside_o the_o excellency_n which_o be_v common_a to_o they_o with_o other_o they_o have_v some_o excellency_n which_o be_v proper_a and_o peculiar_a to_o themselves_o by_o the_o thread_n of_o his_o own_o exposition_n it_o appear_v that_o his_o argument_n be_v of_o no_o force_n why_o the_o 24._o elder_n may_v not_o signify_v the_o whole_a church_n and_o although_o he_o make_v it_o to_o be_v without_o doubt_n that_o the_o 24._o elder_n 4._o do_v offer_v up_o the_o prayer_n of_o other_o saint_n viz._n which_o be_v upon_o earth_n yet_o when_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o 24._o elder_n have_v golden_a vial_n full_a of_o odour_n which_o be_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o saint_n revel_v 5._o 8._o i_o see_v not_o but_o that_o by_o the_o saint_n there_o may_v be_v understand_v the_o 24._o elder_n themselves_o as_o well_o as_o any_o other_o if_o other_o saint_n be_v mean_v distinct_a from_o the_o 24_o elder_n master_n mede_n exposition_n seem_v probable_a that_o by_o the_o 24_o elder_n be_v mean_v minister_n and_o by_o the_o 4._o four_o beast_n the_o rest_n of_o god_n people_n and_o so_o here_o by_o the_o saint_n who_o prayer_n be_v offer_v up_o by_o minister_n who_o in_o the_o public_a assembly_n be_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o people_n and_o offer_v up_o their_o prayer_n unto_o god_n for_o they_o but_o how_o ever_o it_o be_v thus_o much_o may_v sufficient_o appear_v by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v that_o the_o romanist_n can_v evince_v nothing_o from_o this_o scripture_n as_o to_o this_o point_n that_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n do_v understand_v the_o particular_a estate_n of_o man_n here_o upon_o earth_n and_o pray_v for_o they_o for_o the_o other_o place_n allege_v viz._n baruch_n 3._o 4._o i_o give_v this_o answer_n that_o the_o book_n be_v not_o canonical_a the_o jew_n to_o who_o be_v commit_v the_o oracle_n of_o god_n viz._n the_o scripture_n jer._n of_o the_o old_a testament_n rom._n 3._o 2._o luke_n 16._o 29._o not_o own_v it_o as_o be_v observe_v by_o hierome_n who_o therefore_o do_v let_v it_o pass_v as_o himself_o testify_v for_o the_o father_n that_o be_v cite_v austin_n de_fw-fr verb._n apost_n ser._n 15._o have_v nothing_o that_o i_o see_v to_o the_o purpose_n neither_o have_v hilary_n in_o psalm_n 129._o any_o thing_n about_o the_o saint_n pray_v for_o we_o but_o only_o about_o the_o 129._o angel_n carry_v the_o prayer_n of_o man_n unto_o god_n which_o he_o fetch_v from_o the_o book_n of_o tobit_n but_o to_o that_o i_o have_v speak_v before_o indeed_o in_o another_o place_n viz._n upon_o psalm_n 124._o which_o bellarmine_n produce_v he_o 124._o say_v that_o neither_o the_o guard_n of_o the_o saint_n nor_o the_o munition_n of_o angel_n be_v want_v unto_o we_o but_o i_o see_v not_o how_o any_o more_o can_v be_v infer_v from_o this_o then_o that_o the_o saint_n do_v in_o general_n pray_v for_o we_o which_o we_o do_v not_o deny_v neither_o do_v the_o word_n of_o damascen_n in_o the_o place_n quote_v import_v more_o than_o thus_o 16._o when_o he_o say_v that_o the_o saint_n depart_v make_v intercession_n for_o we_o and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v to_o be_v honour_v by_o we_o this_o may_v well_o be_v understand_v ibid._n of_o their_o pray_v in_o general_a for_o we_o a_o little_a before_o indeed_o he_o have_v that_o which_o do_v not_o sound_a well_o viz._n that_o every_o good_a gift_n do_v come_v down_o from_o the_o father_n of_o light_n by_o they_o viz._n the_o saint_n depart_v to_o those_o that_o ask_v in_o faith_n without_o doubt_v the_o scripture_n teach_v we_o no_o such_o thing_n concern_v the_o saint_n but_o attribute_v this_o honour_n unto_o christ_n that_o by_o he_o we_o obtain_v of_o god_n whatsoever_o be_v good_a and_o needful_a for_o we_o he_o that_o spare_v not_o his_o own_o son_n but_o deliver_v he_o up_o for_o we_o all_o how_o shall_v he_o not_o with_o he_o also_o free_o give_v we_o all_o thing_n rom._n 8._o 32._o but_o damascene_fw-la though_o a_o man_n famous_a in_o his_o generation_n yet_o scriptor_n be_v of_o no_o great_a antiquity_n be_v as_o bellarmine_n compute_v 731_o year_n after_o christ_n and_o therefore_o his_o testimony_n be_v of_o the_o less_o force_n beside_o that_o some_o of_o the_o romanist_n namely_o sixtus_n senensis_n 187._o do_v note_v he_o as_o in_o some_o point_n of_o faith_n erroneous_a viz._n about_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n but_o at_o length_n the_o marquesse_n come_v to_o our_o pray_v to_o the_o 69._o saint_n that_o be_v the_o mark_n aim_v at_o a_o long_a time_n we_o hold_v say_v he_o that_o we_o may_v pray_v unto_o they_o you_v not_o we_o have_v scripture_n for_o it_o luke_n 16._o 24._o father_n abraham_n have_v mercy_n on_o i_o and_o send_v lazarus_n etc._n etc._n you_o bid_v we_o show_v one_o proof_n for_o the_o lawfulness_n hereof_o when_o here_o be_v two_o saint_n pray_v unto_o in_o one_o verse_n and_o though_o dives_n be_v in_o hell_n yet_o abraham_n in_o heaven_n will_v not_o have_v expostulate_v with_o he_o so_o much_o without_o a_o non_fw-la nobis_fw-la domine_fw-la if_o it_o have_v be_v itself_o a_o thing_n not_o lawful_a you_o will_v say_v it_o be_v a_o parable_n yet_o a_o jury_n of_o ten_o father_n of_o the_o grand_a inquest_n as_o theophil_n tertull._n clem._n alex._n s._n chrys_n s._n jer._n s._n amb._n s._n august_n s._n greg._n euthym._n and_o ven._n beda_n give_v their_o verdict_n that_o it_o be_v a_o true_a history_n but_o suppose_v it_o be_v a_o parable_n yet_o every_o parable_n be_v either_o true_a in_o the_o person_n name_v or_o else_o may_v be_v true_a in_o some_o other_o the_o holy_a ghost_n tell_v we_o no_o lie_n nor_o fable_n nor_o speak_v not_o to_o we_o in_o parable_n consist_v either_o of_o impossibility_n or_o thing_n improbable_a job_n 5._o 1._o call_v now_o if_o there_o be_v any_o that_o will_v answer_v thou_o and_o to_o which_o of_o the_o saint_n will_v thou_o turn_v it_o have_v be_v a_o frivolous_a thing_n in_o eliphaz_n to_o have_v ask_v job_n the_o question_n if_o invocation_n of_o saint_n have_v not_o be_v the_o practice_n of_o that_o time_n the_o father_n affirm_v the_o same_o s._n diony_n cap._n 7._o s._n athan._n ser._n de_fw-la annunt_fw-la s._n basil_n orat._n the_o 44._o martyr_n s._n chrys_n hom._n 66._o ad_fw-la pop._n s._n hierome_n pray_v to_o paula_n in_o epitaph_n s._n paulae_n s._n maximus_n to_o s._n agnes_n ser._n de_fw-fr s._n agnete_n s._n bern._n to_o our_o bless_a lady_n answ_n this_o point_n of_o pray_v to_o saint_n the_o marquesse_n it_o seem_v make_v great_a account_n of_o in_o that_o he_o bestow_v so_o many_o word_n about_o it_o but_o the_o unlawfulnesse_n of_o this_o practice_n be_v clear_a enough_o by_o that_o which_o i_o have_v say_v before_o about_o pray_v unto_o angel_n for_o i_o have_v demonstrate_v both_o by_o authority_n of_o scripture_n and_o also_o by_o testimony_n of_o father_n that_o prayer_n be_v to_o be_v make_v unto_o god_n only_o and_o if_o the_o saint_n do_v not_o know_v our_o affair_n here_o below_o as_o i_o have_v show_v that_o they_o do_v not_o than_o it_o must_v needs_o be_v absurd_a and_o irrational_a to_o pray_v unto_o they_o yea_o although_o we_o 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his_o book_n against_o berengarius_fw-la speak_v of_o some_o copy_n of_o ambrose_n his_o work_n wherein_o those_o word_n be_v not_o ut_fw-la sint_fw-la quae_fw-la erant_fw-la that_o be_v that_o those_o thing_n shall_v be_v which_o be_v but_o no_o such_o copy_n either_o print_v or_o manuscript_n it_o seem_v do_v bellarmine_n meet_v with_o for_o otherwise_o i_o doubt_v not_o he_o will_v have_v give_v we_o notice_n of_o they_o again_o with_o the_o same_o lanfrancus_fw-la he_o answer_v that_o those_o word_n be_v thus_o to_o be_v understand_v that_o in_o respect_n of_o outward_a show_n the_o thing_n which_o be_v still_o be_v but_o be_v change_v in_o respect_n of_o inward_a substance_n but_o how_o can_v a_o thing_n be_v say_v to_o be_v what_o it_o be_v when_o as_o there_o be_v no_o substance_n of_o the_o thing_n remain_v but_o only_o a_o show_n and_o appearance_n of_o it_o in_o the_o last_o place_n bellarmine_n add_v of_o his_o own_o that_o ambrose_n mean_v if_o christ_n can_v make_v a_o thing_n of_o nothing_o why_o can_v he_o not_o make_v a_o thing_n of_o something_o not_o by_o annihilate_v the_o thing_n but_o by_o change_v it_o into_o that_o which_o be_v better_o but_o if_o a_o thing_n be_v change_v substantial_o into_o another_o thing_n how_o do_v it_o remain_v what_o it_o be_v before_o but_o so_o the_o thing_n do_v that_o ambrose_n speak_v of_o for_o bellarmine_n criticism_n be_v poor_a in_o distinguish_v betwixt_o ut_fw-la sint_fw-la id_fw-la quod_fw-la erant_fw-la that_o they_o shall_v be_v that_o which_o they_o be_v and_o ut_fw-la sint_fw-la quae_fw-la erant_fw-la that_o the_o thing_n shall_v be_v that_o be_v as_o if_o these_o word_n do_v not_o import_v that_o the_o same_o substance_n still_o remain_v as_o well_o as_o the_o other_o when_o christ_n turn_v water_n into_o wine_n can_v we_o say_v that_o his_o word_n be_v operative_a and_o powerful_a ut_fw-la esset_fw-la quod_fw-la erat_fw-la &_o in_o aliud_fw-la mutaretur_fw-la that_o that_o shall_v be_v which_o be_v and_o that_o withal_o it_o shall_v be_v change_v into_o another_o thing_n i_o confess_v i_o can_v see_v how_o the_o thing_n may_v be_v say_v true_o and_o proper_o to_o be_v which_o be_v if_o it_o be_v substantial_o change_v into_o some_o other_o thing_n ambrose_n there_o a_o little_a after_o say_v tu_fw-la ipse_fw-la eras_fw-la sed_fw-la eras_fw-la vetus_fw-la creatura_fw-la posteaquam_fw-la consecratus_fw-la es_fw-la nova_fw-la creatura_fw-la esse_fw-la coepisti_fw-la thou_o thyself_o waste_v but_o thou_o be_v a_o old_a creature_n after_o thou_o be_v consecrate_v thou_o begin_v to_o be_v a_o new_a creature_n which_o can_v be_v mean_v of_o any_o substantial_a change_n in_o we_o chap._n 5._o the_o same_o ambrose_n if_o it_o be_v ambrose_n for_o bellarmine_n be_v not_o very_o confident_a that_o ambrose_n be_v the_o author_n of_o those_o book_n de_fw-fr sacramentis_fw-la say_v indeed_o that_o before_o it_o be_v consecrate_a it_o be_v bread_n but_o when_o the_o word_n of_o 5._o christ_n be_v come_v it_o be_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o that_o it_o be_v so_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n as_o to_o be_v no_o long_o bread_n he_o do_v not_o affirm_v that_o he_o be_v of_o another_o mind_n appear_v by_o the_o word_n before_o allege_a and_o so_o much_o also_o may_v be_v gather_v from_o that_o which_o he_o say_v in_o this_o same_o chapter_n viz._n he_o that_o do_v eat_v manna_n ibid._n die_v but_o who_o eat_v this_o body_n shall_v have_v remission_n of_o sin_n and_o shall_v live_v for_o ever_o which_o can_v be_v understand_v of_o a_o corporal_n eat_v of_o christ_n body_n but_o of_o a_o spiritual_a eat_n of_o it_o bellarmine_n cite_v some_o other_o say_n of_o ambrose_n out_o of_o another_o work_n of_o he_o viz._n de_fw-fr iis_fw-la qui_fw-la mysteriis_fw-la initiantur_fw-la but_o they_o prove_v no_o more_o than_o these_o already_o cite_v neither_o do_v the_o marquesse_n refer_v we_o to_o they_o yea_o in_o that_o same_o work_n ambrose_n do_v sufficient_o declare_v himself_o against_o transubstantiation_n for_o there_o he_o say_v it_o be_v true_o the_o sacrament_n of_o christ_n 6._o flesh_n and_o after_o consecration_n the_o body_n of_o christ_n be_v signify_v and_o again_o it_o be_v not_o therefore_o corporali_fw-la food_n but_o spiritual_a whence_o also_o the_o apostle_n say_v of_o the_o type_n of_o it_o that_o our_o father_n ibid._n do_v eat_v spiritual_a meat_n and_o do_v drink_v spiritual_a drink_n 1_o cor._n 10._o the_o last_o author_n remigius_n be_v only_o cite_v by_o the_o marquesse_n at_o large_a neither_o do_v i_o find_v he_o cite_v by_o bellarmine_n at_o all_o and_o therefore_o until_o we_o have_v some_o particular_a place_n cite_v out_o of_o he_o it_o be_v in_o vain_a to_o trouble_v ourselves_o about_o he_o beside_o that_o his_o antiquity_n be_v not_o such_o as_o that_o his_o authority_n shall_v much_o be_v stand_v upon_o be_v 890_o year_n after_o christ_n as_o bellarmine_n show_v in_o his_o book_n of_o ecclesiastical_a writer_n second_o say_v the_o marquesse_n we_o hold_v that_o there_o be_v in_o the_o 60._o church_n a_o infallible_a rule_n for_o understanding_n of_o scripture_n beside_o the_o scripture_n itself_o this_o you_o deny_v this_o we_o have_v scripture_n for_o as_o rom._n 12._o 6._o we_o must_v prophesy_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n we_o be_v bid_v to_o walk_v according_a to_o this_o rule_n gal._n 6._o 16._o we_o must_v increase_v our_o faith_n and_o preach_v the_o gospel_n according_a to_o this_o rule_n 2_o cor._n 10._o 15._o this_o rule_n of_o faith_n the_o holy_a scripture_n call_v a_o form_n of_o doctrine_n rom._n 6._o 17._o a_o thing_n make_v ready_a to_o our_o hand_n 2_o cor._n 10._o 16._o that_o we_o may_v not_o measure_v ourselves_o by_o ourselves_o 2_o cor._n 10._o 12._o the_o deposition_n commit_v to_o the_o church_n trust_v 1_o tim._n 6._o 20._o for_o avoid_v of_o profane_a and_o vain_a babble_n and_o opposition_n of_o science_n and_o by_o this_o rule_n of_o faith_n be_v not_o mean_v the_o holy_a scripture_n for_o that_o can_v do_v it_o as_o the_o apostle_n tell_v we_o whilst_o there_o be_v unstable_a man_n who_o wrest_v this_o way_n and_o that_o way_n to_o their_o own_o destruction_n but_o it_o be_v the_o tradition_n of_o the_o church_n as_o it_o be_v deliver_v from_o hand_n to_o hand_n as_o most_o plain_o appear_v 2_o tim._n 2._o 2._o the_o thing_n which_o thou_o have_v hear_v of_o we_o not_o receive_v in_o write_v from_o i_o or_o other_o among_o many_o witness_n the_o same_o commit_v thou_o to_o faithful_a man_n who_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o teach_v it_o to_o other_o also_o that_o there_o be_v any_o infallible_a rule_n for_o understanding_n of_o scripture_n answ_n or_o any_o other_o rule_n of_o faith_n beside_o the_o scripture_n we_o do_v deny_v and_o that_o by_o authority_n of_o the_o scripture_n itself_o to_o the_o law_n and_o to_o the_o testimony_n if_o they_o speak_v not_o according_a to_o this_o word_n it_o be_v because_o they_o have_v no_o light_n in_o they_o isai_n 8._o 20._o search_v the_o scripture_n for_o in_o they_o you_o think_v to_o have_v eternal_a life_n and_o they_o be_v they_o that_o testify_v of_o i_o joh._n 5._o 39_o these_o be_v more_o noble_a than_o they_o of_o thessalonica_n in_o that_o they_o receive_v the_o word_n with_o all_o readiness_n of_o mind_n and_o search_v the_o scripture_n whether_o those_o thing_n be_v so_o act_n 17._o 11._o all_o scripture_n be_v give_v by_o inspiration_n of_o god_n and_o be_v profitable_a for_o doctrine_n for_o reproof_n for_o correction_n for_o instruction_n in_o righteousness_n that_o the_o man_n of_o god_n may_v be_v perfect_a thorough_o furnish_v unto_o all_o good_a work_n 2_o tim._n 3._o 16._o 17._o neither_o do_v those_o place_n allege_v by_o the_o marquesse_n make_v for_o the_o contrary_n we_o must_v prophesy_v according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o faith_n say_v the_o apostle_n rom._n 12._o 6._o as_o the_o marquesse_n have_v it_o follow_v therein_o the_o rhemists_n 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