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A18439 A replie to a censure written against the two answers to a Iesuites seditious pamphlet. By William Charke; Replie to a censure written against the two answers to a Jesuites seditious pamphlet. Charke, William, d. 1617. 1581 (1581) STC 5007; ESTC S111017 112,123 256

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the argument doeth not necessarily followe For many are in heauen that haue liued in errour because the rich mercie of God doth aswell pardon errour to him that repenteth as other iniquities No man will take this for a good argument one ●f the two that were crucified with Christ is nowe in heauen therfore he was no thiefe therefore he liued not in error yet such altogether is the fifth motiue that moued Xilander to go to Rome in hope perhappes to be a Saint 6 To the sixt reason which maketh the Papistes reuerent in their wordes and the other syde rayling blasphemous and dishonest in their speaches and writinges I answere with Salomons woordes he that iustifieth the wicked and he that coudemueth the innocent are both an abhomination before the Lorde This reason is repeated in the next and is there further answered 7 The seuenth reason hath nothing in prayse of the Papistes as the former had but is altogether a repetition of that which was said against the godly as railing and misreporting their aduersaries Wherein for proofe against this slaunder I appeale to the places of the Censure alleaged against Martin Luther and charging him with most foule opinions such as after his conuersion he neuer mainteined in worde or deede which his practise prooued while he yet liued and his writings doe testifie now after his death Doctor Watson also may make a triall of this matter against you who in a sermon before Queene Marie charged no small men as he saith but our great bishops to say that euery man and woman might at the Lordes table take bread and blesse it which he calleth tonsecration and speake the woordes of the institution aswell as the minister Notwithstanding here I am to aduertise the reader that Papistes misreport thē selues now saying and at an other time denying the same as appeared in many of the XIII articles by y ● Censurers own practise For when the Iesuites are truely charged he will not graunt that which is truely auouched against them but changing the question will seeme to say lesse then they teach For one example they are charged to commit idolatrie in worshipping images the Censurer will seeme to denie this saying they giue no worship to the image but to God this distinction is not good and further more the assertion is false For it hath been prooued that they giue worship to the very image of Christ and which is more that they giue y ● greatest worship of Christ him selfe to his picture Therefore al men are to consider this both for our defence to auoyde the errour that may come by their deceites For in the fielde where they stand in feare of the aduersarie and in their perswasions when they would win a proselyte the pretended Catholiques will not lie open but cloke a great part of their shamefull doctrine which is their subtiltie to drawe away disciples and to leaue lesse aduantage to their enemies Therefore to a man not acquainted with their double dealing wee may seeme to report them otherwise then they holde in disputation when notwithstanding we report them no other wise then they openly teache in their kingdome and publishe in their writings Wherefore I may conclude that this reason was groūded vpon a manifest vntruth Xilander iudged of Iudas by the kisse not by the treason 8 Lastly for a reason we are falsely charged to esteeme all our auncesters damned to breake their willes and conuert to prophane vses that which they gaue to mainteine idle Monkes and Friers and to redeeme them by masses out of purgatory Whatsoeuer he thought in him selfe or imagined in others wee thinke not our ancesters damned but leaue iudgement to the Lorde to whom the iudgement of life and death doth belong not searching out his secret coūsels which are vnsearchable As for the ornamēts which they bestowed not vpon the seruice of God to the instruction of their soules by the preaching and ministerie of the Gospell but vpon the great harlot and to the inlargement of her kingdome they are brought home agayne to better vses and I thinke many of your best friendes will holde and enioy them as better bestowed Your seconde man commeth ready furnished to your hande out of the former booke of Lindan But because you promise not to deliuer the same reasons that were touched before let vs see how faithfully you keepe art and promise Flaschius first reason is the same that Xilanders seuenth where they say we report the papists to teach that they teach not Also his thirde is but a particular of that which the other man did generally auouch in y ● sixt against y e godly as vsing dishonest speach To speake of them particularly Flaschius his first reason is that your Catholiques teach cleane contrary to that which we report of them We report them to teach that the Pope is supreame head of the Church doe they teach the cleane contrary we charge them to ascribe some merit to workes do they teach cleane contrary Againe we charge them that they auowe transubstantiation do they teach no such thing Wee moreouer chalenge them for giuing worshippe to images do they teach the contrary doctrine wee accuse them for denying the sufficiencie of scriptures do they make them sufficient I might bring infinite such examples but these may be sufficiēt to shew how Flaschius stūbled at his first going out at the gace 2 The second reason is drawen from Luthers mind in writing against y t Romish Church of en●y as the rūnagate doth suppose How is this prooued out of any place quoted for a shewe of proofe Agayne if it were proued that enuie made M. Luther write against Popery how doth the runnagates reason followe The preacher preacheth of enuie therfore his doctrine is to be forsaken The Phisition vseth his arte for couetousnes therfore his coūsel is to be despised If Flaschius had learned what the place of S. Paul ment where he saith he was glad reioyced that Christ was preached eyther vpon enuie or contention eyther for fashion sake or in synceritie howsoeuer it might haue bin a counterpoyson against y ● disease of this second imaginatiō 3 His third reason against M. Luther for great dishonestie scurrilitie of speach in his writings is another ●launder in effect all one w t the seconde and there answered You say this bad fellowe was a ●reacher surely thē he came in by a wrong way went out by a right dore y t neuer had any sound knowledge of the trueth or if he had any he first put back a good cōscience thē made shippe wracke of faith knowledge 4 Fourthly it is but ●laūderously laid to our charge y t we do easily reiect any booke or peece of Scripture for we admit as the word of God all y ● bookes partes conteyned in y t auncient autenticall Canon of y ● Iewes with our aduersaries all the new Testament neither doe we vse or suffer the least corruption of y t Scripture knowing what a curse is pronoūced against such blasphemous auda●ity But you haue added the Apocrypha bookes although
they neither agree in some pointes with y ● scripture nor yet one with another as hath bene declared Touching Fathers and Councils it is too foule an accusation to charge vs y ● wee esteeme no more of them thē of y ● Turkes Alcoran Flaschi●s appeareth to be some corrupt hypocrite who measured other men by y ● vanity wickednes of his own heart So farre doe wee honour the councils as they can well aske or doe deserue honour For that I may bee suffered to repeate with the Censurer we receiue from them ioyfully and with reuerence whatsoeuer they deliuer vnto vs with sufficient warrant out of the worde of God acknowledging them not only to haue brought great profit to the church in their time but also to their posteritie This honour we giue not to the deuilish Alcaron what the Apostata did or will do I can not report 5 The fifth reason is a slaūder against y ● truth blasphemously cast out against it and the professers thereof It is that our newe opinions as Flaschius our enemies wil needes call them are olde heresies condēned by name in the primitiue Church Whereunto I answere that if Saunders most traiterous booke quoted for proofe in the margent or Lindane with his roule of heresies or the runnagate by any good trial can proue that either we pull olde heresies out of the graue or breed newe that should be buried though it be no good reason why Sebastian should flie to them yet wee will graūt it a full sufficiēt reasō why he should take the wings of the morning flie from vs. But if this runnagate in the malice and error of his heart hath spoken good of euil and euill of good if he haue forsaken darknes for light and light for darknes then he hath escaped a blessing and made haste to finde a curse 6. 7. The next two reasons are of y ● same forge with all the rest they prooue nothing but the malice and blindnes of your conuert The sixt chargeth Luther with contrarietie of doctrine the seuenth with a speache of intollerable in●quitie against faith in God But his godly writings doe sufficiently iustifie him against these open slaunder 〈…〉 as was declared before against y ● Censurers like slaūderous reports Out of his large volumes of talke at tables wee know not so much what Luther said or vpon what causes as what those men remēbred or added which did collect the bookes 8 The last reason of Flaschius was cunningly chosen out to make a fit conclusion of your taūting and slaunderous Censure hauing nothing but the venim of the aspe that laie vnder the runnagates tongue It standeth vpon many points shuffeled together as that we are partiall that we exaggerate euery litle fault in our aduersaries and liue our selues most vitiously in fornication and chaunge of wiues according to Luthers doctrine the proofe whereof is alledged in one preacher vpon the runnagates credit with other thinges that this shamelesse man is ashamed to vtter What an heape of reproches is this without any proofe Against this I haue proued that M. Luther taught no libertie offornicatiō but the contrarie as appeareth at large by many his learned and godly treatises Als● the knowne doctrine and discipline of our Church free vs frō the slaunder who seeke a sharper punishment for such enormities then your petie penaunce If Flaschius euer met with a mate like him selfe that would haue made a match w t him in chaunging of wiues he was to blame except the most fault was in himselfe that he did not bring it before the Magistrate vpon complaint and proofes it woulde haue appeared that y ● religion suffereth no such wickednesse to goe unpunished This may be a particular slaunder like the rest but if it were true in Flaschius and one of his companions both fitte to haue bene thrust out of the Church before eyther departed what is this to all These are your two false witnesses wel able to discredit euen a true matter comming from their report as they themselues are discredited by the testimonies they haue giuen in agaynst the Gospell being reportes so full of manifest reproch and vntrueth It is verie like they omitted the true reason of their departure Perhappes they went out because they woulde not or coulde not any longer abide within as it fell out with Demas and Alexander Nowe for a recompence of your two runnagates the present example not of a straunger unknowen but of one home borne toucheth the quicke He in your faces rendered good reasons of his conuersion from among them where wickednesse of life and abhomination of doctrine striue which may cal downe the greatest vengeaunce But this needeth not my repetition and I labour not to presse you with examples or corruptions of men it is beside the question we haue in hande My prayer and labour is for the defence of his trueth from the which we receiue life and are to striue for it vnto death The Lord requireth this seruice at our hands he will at his good time blesse it with manifolde blessings the fruit whereof it may be some of vs shal not see but our posteritie shal behold it notwithstanding all the wisedome and power and counsell of man to the contrary For the Lord hath reuealed the man of sin by the preaching of the worde hath shaken his chaire with a mightie arme hee wil not withdraw his hand til he hath vtterly cōsumed Antichrist with the spirit of his mouth abolished him w t the brightnesse of his comming In the meane time his little ●locke may bee somewhat scattered for a time of trial but they shal be gathered together againe increased to shewe the Lords power and mercie they may s●w 〈◊〉 teares but they shal reape with gladnesse This is the hardest account the godly can make But it may be that the Lord will himselfe correct vs in mercy and not deliuer vs into the hands of our enemies to be punished by them It may be the mother of Sisera shall looke out at the window and cry out at the casement why is his chariot so long a cōming why tary the wheeles of his charet So let thine enemies perish O Lorde but let them that loue thee and thy trueth continue as the Sunne when he riseth in his might and as Oliue plants in the house of God that flourish for euer Amen FINIS Imprinted at London by Christopher Barker Printer to the Queenes most excellent Maiestie 2. Pet. 2. 1. Iohn 4. 24. 1. Iohn 4. 1. 2. Cor. 2. 5. 1. Iohn 4. 2. Heb. 7. 27. 9. 12. 26. 28. 10. 10. Iames 2. 1. Ephe. 4. 1● Rom. 1. 18. 2. Tim. 2. 9. D. Watson M. Peoknam The
your common obiection that our faith began with Martin Luther I answere you may as●el say the religion of the Iewes and knowledge of the Lawe began in Iosias time and that Hilkia was their progenitour because hee founde the booke of the Lawe in the house of God who notwithstanding found no new thing but onely the authenticall booke of Moses whereupon the king and his people by a diligent reading and regarde thereof were wonne the rather to a notable reformation For our faith is the same that hath bene euermore laid and builded vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets Christ Iesus being the chiefe corner stone which hath also continued from age to age although sometimes with small shewe to the world because of many persecutions and great falling away both in life and doctrine Wherefore it is your euill speach so basely to speake and bitterly to deface the religion of Iesus Christ that hath receiued in the eyes of all the world so great testimonie from God to proue the worke is his owne worke and the Gospell his owne euerlasting trueth the power wherof is stil dedlared from day to daye in many wonderfull issues for the inlargement of his kingdome and most of all by adding to the Gospel dayly such as appertaine to his holy election Concerning the praise you giue to Iesuites as reformers of vice in my answere I haue prooued that your religion must first be reformed and your intolerable dispensations and indulgences taken awaye For so long as these marchandises are to be bought so commonly and for so small a price sinne must needes abounde and the complaint of the Lord will bee most iust against you which was made against the couetous and vncleane priestes in Israel They eate the sinnes of my people and lift vp his minde euery one to their iniquitie The Iesuites abandoning of all worldly pleasures possibilities of preferment in the same so farre forth as none of that societie hath or may take any spirituall or temporall liuings or commodities whatsoeuer is nothing els but a superstitio●s worship without commandement as hath bene declared inuented by themselues being moreouer against the order of the pr●mitiue Church and sauouring not a little of Anabaptistrie in condemning the pr●pertie or priuate po●●ession of earthly bl●ssings But howsoeuer you sound a trumpet one before another to shewe the Iesuites contempt of worldly riches and that they receiue not the preferrements wherwith mightie Princes haue pressed them yet I thinke your meaning is not ●ut y ● if the Pope intreat them they wilbe sone intreated The humilitie of their spirit was noted in y ● answere They can be content in h●pocrisie to abase themselues as to the du● but it is that afterward they may rule o●●r all estates in the lande as he did whose 〈◊〉 was to the Pope I my king So also I proued that the Iesuites come to meet meddle with matters of estate offered them 〈◊〉 wrong therin as shal appeare in a ●●tter place whē you assay to proue the contra●y The Censurer in the next place commeth to a discourse of three leaues touching Ignatius Layolas Martin Luther but altogether from the purpose for proofe whereof let his two arguments be examined the one for Layolas and the Iesuites the other against Martin Luther and the professors of the trueth For the Iesuites he bringeth this reason Whosoeuer leauing his former calling shall betake him selfe to a votaries lyfe and therein winne soules may be f●ther of a Societie Layolas did so therefore Layolas may be father of a Societie The first propositiō is omitted by the Censurer but without it ●e can proue nothing for the Iesuites For if any man leauing the fielde or the like calling maye not begin a newe order as Layolas did howe can Layolas his broode ●ustifie their Societie The second proposition y ● Layolas leauing his former calling proued so good a man and wonne soules is more then doubtfull Thus it appeareth that vpō two former propositions the one false the other doubtfull the Censurer can make no true or cleare conclusion that the Iesuites haue a good warrant for their newe Apostleship Against y ● professors of the Gospell there is another argument made but with a● ill arte and successe For thus the Censurer doth reason If Luther were a wicked man taught many beastly doctrines the Protestantes may be ashamed of their progenitor but Luther was such a one therefore the protestantes may bee ashamed of their father and religion The first proposition is altogether false for Luther is not our progenitour nor the father of our faith If he had offended yet the trueth and professors thereof are not guiltie or thereby iustly touched in credit The seconde proposition is also false for howsoeuer false witnesses come in one vpon another to sweare against him Martin Luthers worthy praise shall continue in all ages the Lord hath shewed him a token of good they that hate him shal see it and bee ashamed Wherefore these two propositions being false must needes bring forth a false and s●aūderous conclusion Thus the Censurer appeareth much more carefull smothely to deliuer foule reproches then to bring a good reason for maintenance of his cause His arguments being thus layde open it remaineth to consider the particular speaches whereby he setteth such colours vpon his slaunders deliuered against that holy and learned man Martin Luther and vpon his praises for Ignatius Layolas And first for the life of Ignatius Layolas I passe it ouer as a thing from the matter and hauing in it nothing to bee answered when it commeth into the Legenda it may haue some credit in your Church but as it is nowe reported I see no honour that cōmeth to you by the tale nor harme to vs. But to you this harme maye growe that hereafter by so slender an example other Fryers may bee brought in as much to raygne ouer you as you woulde raygne ouer all the Monkes and Fryers that haue bene before you 〈◊〉 maruel howe in this storie of Layolas you left out y t which if it had bene true would haue made more for you then al his life beside It is his wonderfull vision when in a traunce he did behold Iesus receiuing him and his fellowes into protection You knowe that without a myracle your newe creatures of the Pope haue neyther lyfe nor soule For Martin Luther what may truely bee sayde f●r his iust honour that shall appeare afterward nowe I am to answeare vnto your reproches against him And first howesoeuer you thinke your credit discharged by alledging them Hosius Cochleus Lindanus Xaintes haue no voyce where trueth or reason are admitted for witnesses For in this action they are specially sworne and forsworne agaynst Martin Luther the ruine of their estate beyng all agreed to lende and borowe lies and in one tale to conspire the death and detestation of his name
to occupie your answerer more in finding out your places then in making answere to foure of your bookes But I thought only to note your practise herein nowe let vs returne vnto the matter Martin Luther doeth neyther him selfe exclude Matthewe Marke or Luke from beyng the Gospel neyther woulde he haue anye man barre the other writings of the Apostles from that title because all that was written by the foure Euangelists and what so euer the holy Apostles wrote beside in the newe Testament all that is one Gospel in substance though there be foure whose seuerall bookes vsually are called foure seuerall Gospels Therefore to speake of the foure Euangelists first in respect that the holy Ghost vsed them as foure pennes and foure witnesses all writing the Gospel and storie of the doctrine and deedes of Christ we may say there are foure Gospels But in respect they 〈…〉 te in an heauenly harmony in one Spirite in one trueth for one and the same woorke of faith the Gospell being one and the same in all foure there are not foure but one Gospell As for the rest of the Apostles what they haue left to the treasure of the Church in the booke of God that also is the same Gospel and the Apostle doth call his doctrine and Epistles by that name which is to be obserued for auoyding a corrupt iudgement in thinking lesse authoritie or maiestie of Gospell in the Epistles then is in the bookes of the foure Euangelists for in respect that they were sent from the Apostle to the Churches absent they are called Epistles as other mens letters are called in like case but in respect of the doctrine therein deliuered it is the same which saint Luke and saint Iohn did write and beare no lesse honour howe so euer some custome of speach otherwise doeth hinder a right iudgement in this behalfe To this thirde article onely hath the Censurer giuen his Censure wherein hee hath not so much reproched Luther as bewrayed some want of exercise or iudgement in the Scriptures His wordes are that Luther saide this because the other three Gospels spake too much of good workes whereby the Censurers opinion is cleere that Saint Iohn speaketh lesse of good woorkes then the rest I graunt that Iohn hath a speciall course in describing the diuinitie of Christ and the loue of God towarde vs but that hee is inferiour to the rest in teaching good workes I can not graunt it neither can the Censurer proue it But for proofe of that I say one or two places of many may be sufficient If loue be the fulfilling of the Lawe and the newe commaundement not to loue one another as euery man loueth him self but more perfectly and more aboundantly as Christ hath loued vs if to bring foorth much fruite as branches in the vine be the fountaine of euery good work if to follow the shepheard Christ and to obey his voyce be better then al sacrifices then Iohn doth most mightily teach the true doctrine of good woorkes 4 The fourth report is if any woman cannot or will not proue by order of 〈◊〉 the insufficiēcie of her husband let her request at his handes a diuorce or els by his consent let her lye priuily with his brother or with some other man Accuse not vs for your fault but couer it or take the s●●me thereof to your selues True it is Luther gaue this euill counsell but as he answereth for himselfe hee did it when he was yet among you teaching shriuing priestes what to answere when such doubtes are moued by them that come to shrifte Also hee sayth it was his aduice when hee was holden with the feare of Antichrist but now saith hee speaking of the time after his conuersion my mind is to giue other counsel What holy writings can bee free from your foule reproches if you will thus racke a peece of sentence against the manifest purpose of the writer But it appeareth that you wrote these things by he are saye or made none account what examination your booke abide your name being vnknowen 5 In the fift place you laye downe these woordes against Martin Luther If the wife will not let the maide come These wordes thus barely set downe import a wicked opinion and doctrine tending to carnalitie as if Martin Luther allowed of fornication sending the vnruly husband to his maide seruant vpon any refusall of the wife But they were of set purpose and malice tent from the other words and sense of the writer to make a shewe of that opinion which was neuer in M. Luther reclaymed to the knowledge of the Gospel For in this place he speaketh of a thirde cause of diuorce when the woman shall obstinately refuse her husbandes companie bringeth in the man often threatning his wife with these wordes which if they preuayle not hee maketh his complaynt to the Magistrates and doeth nothing but after a solemne diuorcing as was that of Vasthi and after a solemne espousing as that of Esther which example he setteth downe in the same place and alludeth vnto it by some Dutch phrase not founding so west in other tongues as the matter will beare being rightly taken If this opinion of diuorce seeme grosse as it may yet your Poperie whence this proceded hath somewhat more grosse euen in this poynt For it permitteth a man if hee will to put away his wife because she was a bondwoman and he knewe it not before the mariage The like is alledged out of Austen to prooue that a man may bee diuorced from his wife for couetousnesse or such other sinnes because they are spiritual fornication 6 The sixt report of Luthers doctrine is that Matrimonie is much more excellēt then virginitie Mariage was ordained in Paradise mariage increaseth the number of saintes it is honorable among all men 〈◊〉 so much cannot be sayd for virginitie The comparison I will not stand vpon they are both good yet neither good for all but mariage for him that can not conteyne and virginitie in some respectes as the Apostle noteth which Luther in many places doth like wise acknowledge The sixt point might seeme to you a beame in his which to vs woulde not haue bene deemed a mote in your eyes 7 Your seuently report is that Christ and Saint Paul dyd not counsaile but disswade virginitie vnto Christians It is not hard I suppose to drawe out from you the iustification of this doctrine for you cannot thinke that Christ perswadeth all men to abstayne from marriage Seeing his wordes are not generally spoken to all whatsoeuer but to alsuch as can containe He that can receiue le● him receiue Which wordes for auoyding of sinne implie thus much also not as counsaile onely but as a commaundement he that can not containe let him marrie to auoyd fornication as S. Paul inforceth So that all Christians which haue not that rare gift of continencie for