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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A00430	Catholique traditions. Or A treatise of the beliefe of the Christians of Asia, Europa, and Africa, in the principall controuersies of our time In fauour of the louers of the catholicke trueth, and the peace of the Church. Written in French by Th. A.I.C. and translated into English, by L.O.; Tradition catholique. English	Eudes, Morton.; Owen, Lewis, 1572-1633.	1609 (1609)	STC 10561; ESTC S101746	137,760	254

the beginning therefore he that is a Melchite is a Catholike and whosoeuer holdeth a contrary opinion is an Hereticke It is this heresie that keepeth the kingdome of Nauarre vnder the Spanish yoke It is this heresie that brought that frowning fortune into our France and had bene the ruine of her if her great and inuincible Melech seconded by faithfull Melchites otherwise called Polititians had not preserued and defended her with the grace and assistance of him which is the onely giuer and translater of Monarchies It is this Heresie that the most Puissant and mightie King of Great Britaine indeuoreth to quench abolish in the hearts of his subiects a heresie which for a while lyeth hid vnder ashes but meeting with any proper matter will breake into a great combustion Euery one may here see that the most part of Christians doe reiect this opinion yea the Romanes themselues although they suffer the Pope of Rome to maintaine it in the Canons Wee will then conclude according to the generall voice That the Primate of the Catholike Church whether he be at Constantinople or at Rome or at Alexandria hath no power or authoritie ouer Temporall Common-wealthes QVESTION VII Whether all the doctrine necessarie to saluation may bee taken out of the holy Scripture THE EAST CHVRCH NIlus Archbishop of Thessalonica This is not then the cause of this difference and much lesse the whole bodie of the Scripture as if it were too short No it is not vttered openly and plainely wherof this question is for to accuse the Scripture is as great a fault as to accuse God but God is voyd of all blame Lombard The Grecians say that the holy Ghost proceedeth onely from the Father the which they beleeue say they because that the Gospell which containeth wholy the Faith that is to say the doctrine of the faith maketh mention of the Father onely The King of Moscouia If the Gospell had not bene written how could the word of God haue bene vnderstood and if the Apostles had not reduced into writing their delegation or Commission how had it bene knowen to the world that they were sent to men Sacranus The Russians say that the teachers of the Latin Church are not credible because they teach but that they receiue from the Greeke Doctors conditionally that they find nothing therein contrary to their owne opinion Annot. The Christians of the East are marueilous iealous of the Traditions and Ceremonies of the Fathers neuerthelesse they hold that the Scripture is necessarie against those that say that the Church may erre Moreouer they hold the same sufficient and a rule of Faith and therefore admit not altogether the Greeke and Latin Doctors but iudge of their doctrine which they could not doe but by examining it by the rule of Scripture THE SOVTH CHVRCH A Luares It was demaunded of me whether all those things that is to say the customes of the Romane Church were contained in our Bookes and whether they seemed better vnto me then those which they vse I answered that I found our bookes reduced into a better order then their bookes were because that since the time of the Apostles wee haue had alwayes great masters and teachers which were neuer imployed in any other vocation but to compose and gather together the holy Scriptures and passages of the Prophets and Apostles scattered in many volumes They replied vnto me that they had fourescore and one bookes of the olde and new Testament and asked whether we had more I answered that we had tenne times more drawne and extracted out of the olde and new Testament enriched with many expositions wherein was contained very deepe doctrine Prester-Iohn caused one to tell me that he was not ignorant of the great quantitie of bookes which we haue but that he desired verie much to know their names Damianus a Goes The Abyssins say that they haue all the writings of Moses and the Prophets and other bookes of the old Testament the foure Euangelists and all the Epistles of S. Paul and that they want not any booke of the holy Scripture whereof they recyted a Catalogue in my presence Neuerthelesse the Bishop Zaga an Ethiopian seemeeth to count the bookes of the Bible otherwise for he saith that in the new Testament there are fiue and thirtie peraduenture he comprehends those which Aluars saith that they call Manda and Abetilis diuided into eight parts but the same Abyssins doe beleeue that the holy Scripture is sufficient for saluation without those for they denie not the name of true Christians to those that haue not those bookes and therefore they hold them not to be of equall authority with the other The same Authour saith that the Abyssins beleeue not that there is any power whether Councel or whatsoeuer able to make lawes which binde the conscience much lesse such doctrine as is not grounded vpon the Scripture Annot. The Ethiopians are of the opinion of the Reformed if they meane those foure-score and one bookes which are in the Volume of the Bible for the same number is to be found if one reckon the Epistle of Ieremie for one booke by it selfe and if one doe seperate the Histories which are not found but in Greeke added to the bookes of Daniel and Hester Moreouer it is to be noted that the Abyssins do limite that which they holde for the word of God within the number of foure score and one bookes against the opinion of the word not written and they demand if the fashion and manner of celebrating the Masse is to be found in the holy Scripture Aluares a Roman Catholik answereth them cleane besides the matter saying that the Romane Church hath Doctors and Teachers which haue a doctrine farre greater and more perfect then that of the olde and new Testament The Reformed Church subscribe not willingly to this Article for they make a contrary Article as hereafter followeth THE REFORMED CHVRCH THe confession of the French Church We do beleeue that the word which is conteined in these bookes proceedes from God of whom it taketh his authority and not of men And forasmuch as it is the rule of all truth and verity conteining all that is necessary for the seruice of God and our saluation it is not lawfull for men neither for the Angels themselues to adde diminish or change it THE CATHOLIKE ROMAN CHVRCH I. Maior It is to be noted that wee doe hold many things to be diuine Law which are not expresly conteined in the Diuine law to wit in the holy Scripture neyther may they euidently be deduced from thence As for example not to ordaine a woman to be Priest or the institution of any one order In like manner we read not in the new Testament and much lesse in the old that the soueraigne Bishopricke was graunted to the Successors of S. Peter yet notwithstanding wee hold the soueraigne Bishopricke is by Diuine law The councell of Trent

The Councell seeing that this veritie is conteined partly in written bookss and partly in Traditions not written doth receyue and honour with equall affection pietie and deuotion aswell all the bookes of the old and new Testament as also all Traditions which appertaine as well to faith as to good manners ANNOTATION FIrst the Romane Catholickes especially when they would serue their turnes with the sayings of the Fathers against the Protestants doe not distinguish the doctrine of faith from Ecclesiasticall policie which the Grecians call 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 The Protestants doe beleeue that all matters of Faith may bee sufficiently taken out of the holy Scripture And that that which belongs to Policie Ceremonie and Circumstances hath bene let go by Tradition not written such Tradition which may bee changed by the Catholicke Church that is to say by the mutuall consent good will of all Christian people in like manner by the particular Churches vnder the consent and good liking of the Catholicke Church In sum that the Scripture is the rule of the faith of the Catholicke Church as the Catholicke Church is the rule of the members thereof in that which concernes Policie or outward worship Secondly the foresaid Maior is deceiued in saying that the Scripture prohibiteth not to ordaine women Prests the prohibition is in Saint Paul as for the orders or inferiour offices of Priesthood they are of meere Policie And as touching the soueraigntie of the Bishop or Pope of Rome it is certaine that the Scripture maketh no mention of it also Tradition of the Catholicke Churches doth contradict it It is obiected that the Scripture maketh no mention of the perpetuall virginitie of the Mother of our Sauiour Wherevnto some men answere that it may be gathered out of the Scripture and that whereas the holy virgine is called blessed among all women if she had not beene alwayes a virgine other virgines should haue excelled her in blessednesse He that marrieth doth well saith Saint Paul but hee that marrieth not doth better well then those that haue done best shall bee most blessed in heauen Now if any man will restraine her felicity in regard that shee bore our Sauiour he must giue an account of that restraint Thirdly the Cardinall of Perron saith that the holy Scripture is sufficient to saluatiō because it doth send vs back vnto the Church and the Church teacheth that which particularly is wanting in the Scripture But if that were so the holy Scripture should bee manifestly imperfect and insufficient for if the Scripture teacheth vs not where is the head as Maior auoucheth how may one know by it the body of the Church And for to descant vpon the comparison of the same Cardinall if the King should say to one my Chauncellour shall tell you the rest and then many should arise for to speake vnto whom should hee hearken whom should be beleeue to be the true Chauncellour Our Sauiour neuer said that the Church should continue in Italy or in France and that it should faile in other Countries Moreouer it is certaine that our Sauiour knew all things yet not as a bare man but by participation of the heauenly wisedome neuerthelesse he reuealed not all things to his Apostles And the Apostles knew things which were not lawfull for them to declare but they might happily declare farre more to their Disciples then they haue written to wit many discourses miracles and other particularities of the life and doctrine of the Lord which got them a farre more great and perfect knowledge in Diuinitie Moreouer there haue beene very many profitable things for the gouernment of the Church which were not written but are come to their successors by Tradition But as concerning that which is properly belonging to faith and necessary as well for the Church in generall as for the particulars thereof the Catholicke Church beleeueth That the holy Scripture is sufficient to saluation QVESTION VIII Whether all the Bookes contained in the Volume of the Bible haue an absolute and equall authority THE EAST CHVRCH DAmascenus the greatest Doctor amongst the Greekes The 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say the booke replenished with all sorts of vertues and the wisedome of Salomon the which being written in Hebrew by the Father of Sirac was translated into Greeke by his Nephew which although they bee as the rest of the bookes very elegant yet are they not numbred with the others because that they were not contained in the Arke Annot. Although that Saint Iohn Damascene be an ancient Author and that those Christians of the East doe to this day follow his doctrine in that point of the distinction of the Canonicall books from the Apocryphall or lesse authenticall Yet the Grecians haue not had since that any Councell which made a new Canon THE SOVTH CHVRCH THe South Church The Egyptians and Ethiopians do follow altogether the Canon of the Hebrewes and receaue not as truely Canonicall the bookes of Wisedome Iudith and Maccabees and others they of those Countreys haue hereby giuen vs this aduise If any man can shew that this testimoniall is false hee ought to be beleeued Villamont saith that hee could not discouer what bookes they held authenticall and that he thought they were in Hebrew It is well knowen that the Abyssins doe retaine very much of the old law and therefore one ought not to thinke it strange if those that call themselues Israelites do conforme themselues to the antient Church of Israel THE REFORMED CHVRCHES IN THE WEST THe Confession of the French Church after the account of the bookes according to the Canon of the Hebrewes We acknowledge these bookes to be Canonicall and a certaine rule of our faith not so much for the consent of the Church as by the testimonie of the holy Ghost which made vs to discerne them from the other Ecclesiasticall vpon which although that they be profitable none ought to ground any Article of Faith The confession of Wittenberg We do call holy Scripture the Canonicall bookes of the old and new Testament such as the Authority whereof was neuer called in question in the Church Annot. If any ancient or moderne writers haue doubted of the authority of some Canonicall bookes their doubt ought not to be imputed vnto the whole body of the Church THE CATHOLIKE ROMANE CHVRCH THe Councell of Trent hauing accounted amongst the other auncient Canonicall bookes those which otherwise some doe call the second Canonicall to wit Iudith Wisedome and the Maccabees saith thus If there be any one that will not receiue for good and Canonicall these bookes all whole and entire which haue beene accustomed to be read in the Romane Catholike Church let him be accursed ANNOTATION THe foresaid people of the East and South and the reformed of the West say that our Sauiour and his Apostles after him haue receiued for holy Scripture and perfectly authenticall but onely those bookes which

were and haue beene since in the Canon of the Hebrewes wherein the books of the Maccabees VVisedome and the third and fourth booke of Esdras are not conteined That the Authours of these bookes were not as the Prophets inspired of God who confirmed their doctrine with Miracles this is the cause why the Church in that time receiued the one into the Canonicall authoritie and not the other That the Catholike Church much lesse the Romane cannot make newe Articles of Faith To affirme that the Auncient Church knewe not nor taught the verity in that behalfe and that the Church hath had since new reuelations is an absurd thing In fine that they first which numbred these Deutero-canonicall or Ecclesiasticall with the Propheticall intended not to equalize them but rather thought good to put them in the Volume of the holy Bible because that there are good precepts in them and Histories whereby one may see the estate of the Church after the time of the Prophees vntill the comming of the Redeemer The Councell of Trent doth hold likewise for Apocrypha and in suspect the 4. book of Esdras although it be in the volume of the Bible There are also learned men of great account in the Catholike Romane Church as Cardinall Caietane Nicholas de Lyra and others which hold not the bookes of Maccabees for authenticall books And the generall voyce is that The bookes of Wisedome Syrach the third and fourth of Esdras the Maccabees and others although that they may perhaps call them Canonicall haue not equall authority with the bookes of the Prophets and Apostles QVESTION IX Whether the Latine Translation be of the same authoritie with the Originall Hebrew and Greeke written by the Prophets and Apostles THE EAST CHVRCH NIcholas The christians of the East say that the Popes of Rome whom they hold for heretikes together with their Sectaries haue wholly corrupted and changed the Gospel and other books of our Religion in taking away and adding that which seemed to them most fit to serue their insatiable couetousnesse The King of Moscouia The Chapters which thou cytest out of Apostolicall epistles and Gospels agree not with ours Here Lasicius marke that which followeth The writings of the Apostles are otherwise distinguished by the Russians then by vs for in their language there is in S. Matthew 116. chapters the most part of them so little that there is sometimes but three little verses therein according as the sense of the discourse requireth and a little after he saith that all that was done by one Cyrillus a Priest of the Church of Constantinople which they doe obey who vnderstood the Sclauonian tongue Aug. Eugub saith that the Grecians hold the translation of the seuentie Interpreters which almost quite through differeth from the latine Translation Aluares saith that Prester-Iohn asked him how many of the Prophets had foretold the comming of Iesus Christ I answered saith he that there was not any one amongst them which made not some mention of his comming Afterward hee asked him how many bookes S. Paul had written who answered one booke diuided into many epistles Annot. This discourse sheweth that the Churches of Ethiope haue neuer seene the Latin Bible of the Church of Rome and regarded not to approue it if they found it differing from the Hebrew THE REFORMED CHVRCH IN THE VVEST THe confession of the Swizers We doe receiue onely that Interpretation of the Scriptures for Orthodoxal and lawful which is taken out of the Scripture it selfe expounded according to the true sense and meaning of the language wherein they were written VVhitaker Wee Englishmen doe hold that the Latine translation of the Church of Rome is in very many places miserably corrupted and falsified and that it is not authenticall and that the Hebrewe and Greeke edition is sincere Scripture THE ROMAN OCCIDENTAL CHVRCH THe councell of Trent The Councell considering that no smal profit would redound to the Church if of many Latine editions of the holy Scriptures one were knowne to be Authenticke doth ordaine and declare that the same vulgar edition bee held for such and that none be so bold to reiect it vpon what pretence soeuer ANNOTATION THe Authour of the vulgar Latin translation is not knowen The Romane Catholikes say that it is the labour of S. Ierome The Reformed Churches doe thinke that S. Ierome was not the Authour thereof Neuerthelesse the Councell of Trent doth authorise it Cardinall Bellarmine affirmeth that that Translation is true and that the originall is corrupted But there are many Romane Catholikes which doe hold the Catholike beleefe and haue made newe Translations and consequently corrected the vulgar Those of the East Churches hold that onely the Greeke Originals written by the Apostles are authenticall And as touching the bookes of the old Testament they allow of the Translation which is called the Translation of the seuentie or of Ptolomeus Neuerthelesse they hold it not for a certainty that those be altogether the translation of the seuenty which carry that name It is thought that the Apostles did vse the Translation of the said seuenty the which neuerthelesse was not altogether comformable with the Hebrew but if they haue approued it then it followeth that there was not any errour in that they haue alledged it Moreouer the Hebrew text is preferred before all other Translations The Latines doe obiect that it is not reasonable to receiue the Hebrew Bible of the Iewes The Greekes doe answere that our Sauiour and his Apostles had the Hebrew Bible and that they left the same to their successors from whom those of this present time haue receiued it from hand to hand and not from the vnbeleeuing Iewes and therefore the vulgar translation was taken from the Hebrew It followeth therefore that the Hebrew was then in the Church or else that the Romane Church hath taken it from the Iewes Masius saith that the Syrians hold for authenticall the Syrian translation of one Theodorus peraduenture they intend not to preferre or equalize it with the originall Hebrew and that the Grecians the Moscouites the Abyssines and the Armenians would attribute each one of them to the translation vsed in their Church as much as the Latins doe attribute to theirs which would be but so many particular opinions each one of them being reiected by the other and therfore the Catholicke assured opinion is That the Latin translation of the Romane Church or any other hath not equall authority with the originall Hebrew and Greeke of the Prophets and Apostles QVESTION X. VVhether the Traditions of the Latin Church are Catholicke and whether all Christian Nations are obliged to obserue them THE EAST CHVRCH NIcolas The Grecians say that they were the first Nations that were conuerted to the faith of Iesus Christ and that in consideration and regard thereof they are the men that truely and purely hold the Traditions of the Primitiue Church as it was preached and

taught vnto them by the Apostles Ieremie Oecumenicall Patriarch writeth thus to the Protestants of Germanie Let these things suffice you most deare brethren which as you see do best of all accord and agree with the Scriptures vnto vs diuinely giuen according to the interpretation and exposition of the most wise and holy Fathers inspired by God For wee are not permitted to trust vpon our owne particular interpretation or to vnderstand or teach but only that which agreeth with the holy Councels and Doctors of the Church for feare that being once drawen or ledde out of the way of the Euangelicall doctrine and the path of true wisedome and vnderstanding we do erre and that our iudgement be transported as an other Proteus one while to one fashion of beleefe another while to another Well some of you will demaund peraduenture by what meanes may a man attaine to this That shall he doe by the aide and assistance of God if he doe attempt nothing and follow but that which hath bene ordained by the Apostles and holy Councels For he that doth well and constantly continue within these limits shall march the very same pace and be of the very same faith and Communion with vs. Sacranus The Moscouites denie that the Church of Rome is the chiefe head of all other Churches saying also that the Sayings Statutes Writings Canons and Determinatiōs of the Councels of the Church of Rome are nothing and that all Councels after the seuen first Councels are not truely Catholicke because that they were holden without their consent and approbation THE CHVRCH OF THE SOVTH ALuares Againe it was demaunded of me what number of Bishops were at the Councell of Nicei whereunto I answered three hundred and eighteene Moreouer they asked me wherefore wee doe not obserue the Statutes and Articles of that holy Councell seeing it was therein ordained that Priests should mary I answered that of all that which was there ordained there was now nothing obserued but onely the great Symbole or Creede They put me also in mind of many other things which were broken and violated by Pope Leo and they prayed me to recite them But I excused my selfe saying that I knew them not although that in my iudgement if that hee infringed any they were such as sauoured of some heresie and that he had approued and caused to bee obserued those which hee knew to be holy and necessary The same Aluares Prester Iohn asked me whether wee had a booke diuided into eight parts which was composed by the Apostles assembled at Ierusalem which they call Manda and Abetilis the contents whereof was by them obserued but I answered him that I neuer knew any such because it was not to bee found in our Countries Zaga-zabo an Ethiopian Bishop Neither our Patriarch nor our Bishops doe beleeue that either of themselues or in Councell they may make any lawes vnto which any man should be bound vpon paine of mortal sinne THE REFORMED CHVRCHE IN THE WEST THe confession of the Swizers S. Peter the Apostle saith that the holy Scriptures are not of any priuate interpretation and therefore we approue not all interpretations neyther receiue as a lawful exposition that which is called the opinion of the Church of Rome We do not contemne the exposition of the Fathers which doe agree with the holy Scriptures we reiect all humane Traditions although neuer so well adorned with fine Titles if being conferred with the holy Scripture they doe differ and varie Zanchius We doe iudge that those Traditions must be retained and obserued in the Churches which doe manifestly appeare to be of the Apostles obserued euer in all the Churches although that there is no such commaundement in the Scripture It is not the part of a Christian man and one that feareth God to reiect that which is proued to haue bin receiued by the consent of all Churches to reiect that I say without iust and necessary cause but if hee attempt any such matter it must be debated in a generall Councell THE CATHOLIKE ROMAN CHVRCH THe Councell of Trent The Councell considering that all Doctrine and Discipline is contained in Bookes written and Traditions not written following the example of the Catholike Fathers and good interpreters of the faith doth receiue and honour with equal affection and pietie all the bookes of the old and new Testament and in like manner the Traditions which doe appertaine as well to faith as to good manners as hauing beene spoken eyther by the mouth of Iesus Christ or else by the holy Ghost and alwaies kept in the Catholike Church Romane by continuall succession ANNOTATION THere is no part of Christendome that holde not themselues to haue the best forme of gouernement The three principall that is to say the Grecians Romanes and Abissins or Aethiopians doe claime their Traditions from the Apostles notwithstanding that they are found eyther to be different or contrary but in Histories their Original is to be seen especially the Traditions of the Grecians and Latines As touching those of the Abissins or Aethiopians it is harder to find out the Authours Neuerthelesse they haue receiued some of the Greekes and Latines in the time of Iustinian the Emperour as hereafter shall be said But the most part of their ceremonies are taken from the law of Moses The Reformed Christians say that if ceremonies must be it is more conuenient to obserue those which God hath in times past ordained then to receiue any Paganisme superstition That which brought most nouelties into the Latine Church is the authority which is giuen to one alone for euery Pope would leaue some remembrance of faith from hence do proceed so many canonized saints and fashions to honour them feasts pilgrimages Religions or orders of monks and friars and such like blind deuotion wherein the Latins haue surpassed all people who accuse the foresaid Latines of presumption because they would make to passe for Catholike those customes which were neuer ordained by the seuen vniuersall Councels They of the East Church require the obseruation of those of the generall Councels but not of any particular The Reformed Christians doe protest that they dispute not against Catholike customes but against abuse and superstition or if any thing displeaseth them it is the multitude of ceremonies rather then any one of them considered in particular It is true that in reiecting those that haue beene brought onely in by the Church of Rome they haue not spared the Catholike ceremonies Luther thought that all Christian nations would reforme themselues the one after the other and also that that which seemed to be a particular attempt would be corroborated and confirmed by a Catholike approbation Howsoeuer it be the learned and greatest men amongst them doe protest to submit themselues to a generall and free Councell The Frenchmen likewise who haue of late time begun and had lesse means giuen them to errect