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A65887 A serious search into Jeremy Ives's questions to the Quakers who are herein cleared from his scornful abuses : and Jer. Ives himself manifest to be no Christian from his own observations, reviling, ostentation, &c. / by a witness for Christianity in faith and life, George Whitehead. Whitehead, George, 1636?-1723. 1674 (1674) Wing W1958; ESTC R5315 30,089 74

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any Book or Books said to be published in the Quakers Names and Behalf if they have not publickly declared against them I deny that their Silence herein may reasonably pass for Consent and Approbation as Jeremy concludes for its possible there may be Books said to be published in the Quakers Names and Behalf which few if any of the Quakers have ever read and it were Unreasonable to charge those things upon them or upon the whole Body of them which they have had no hand in nor been made privy to neither would Jeremy Ives or his Brethren be so served Besides there may be Books writ on the Behalf of a People by indifferent Persons which are not wholely to be condemned or publickly declared against for some particular Faults or Escapes where the Intent of the Writer was honest and the greatest Part or Substance of the Matter serious and true Thirdly Our Adversary asks Why do not the Body of the Quakers meet together and agree to publish an Index Expurgatorious to clear themselves of such Books they do not own otherwise it will not be their Private Apologizing for themselves when their Credit lies at stake to say they do not own this and the other Book that will pass for Excuses among Wise Men. 1. I must confess if he had good Ground for this Proposition there seems to be some Reason in it more then he has shewn before But I would ask this Law-Maker if he doth really look upon the Body of the Quakers to be attained to so much of sound Judgment and Understanding as here he seems to imply that is as able to clear themselves of such Books Things as they are liable to be called in question for or as are unsound 2. His granting that there are such Books as we do not own and which tend to the Hazard of our Credit if we do not publish an Index to clear our selves thereof This implys that we have a Judgment to clear our selves and that so far the Light or Truth is risen amongst us as not to own those things which may indanger our Credit and then he should not charge us with those things unless we did own them Again As we do not reckon our selves bound so far to take Cognizance of every Book or Paper so as to read all over that hath been writ by all that have gone under the Name Quakers so neither do we know Occasion to write such an Index as Ier●my prescribes against any of our Friends Books that are declaredly owned by us For those Opinions and Practices that are generally owned by us we stand to maintain as neither being Idle nor Ridiculous but Serious and Sound agreeable to the holy Scriptures and consistent with Christianity and value not all the Gain-sayings of our Adversaries But if any Practice or Signal Thing extraordinary be laid upon any one Particular among us we impose it not upon others and such must not stand or fall to Man's Judgment but are accountable to God for what they do For to Man's Judgment and Earthly Wisdom many things extraordinary or peculiar which were required of God's Prophets might seem both Idle Ridiculous and those Prophets themselves seem Fools and Mad Men as they were accounted of old But further seeing Ieremy Ives has before prescribed such a Method as the Body of the Quakers to meet together and agree to publ●sh an Index Expurgatorious c. They that prescribe Rules should be regular themselves and they that make Laws should observe and keep Laws Why do not the Baptists who deem themselves Christians and Us none begin and shew Us such an Example as he hath prescribed since there are divers Opinions Contradictory one to another in the Baptists Books both whereof cannot be true as between the Predestinarian Principle and the Arminian so called or between an absolute Predestination of particular Persons to Salvation or Damnation from Eternity and the General Grace of God and Redemption in Christ for all men And between the Impossibility of Believers falling from Grace and the Possibility thereof with divers other things about which the Baptists differ among themselves Why do not the Body of the Baptists meet together agree first about their own Principles and then lish a Declaration against those Opinion s which may appear inconsistent with Christianity Truth and Reason and an Index Expurgatorious to clear themselves of all such Baptists Books as are writ to maintain such an Exploded Opinion that People may no longer be deceived thereby otherwise if they refuse this Proposition begun by Jeremy we may accordingly take the Baptists Silence herein to pass for Consent and Approbation of all the Baptists Books which the Body of Baptists have not publickly declared against And then from hence I charge Jer. Ives and his Brethren with giving their Consent and Approbation to their Brother Thomas Hicks his Three Fictitious Dialogues and all the Absurdities Contradictions Forgeries and Abuses therein contain'd so long as they are silent and do not write an Index Expurgatorious to clear themselves thereof and so of all the rest of the Baptists Books that contain in them both Idle Ridiculous and Contradictory Opinions Further Jeremy accuseth us with Enthusiastick-Principles and new Articles of Faith and Practice frequently enjoyned by Immediate Inspiration 1st What he means by the Word Enthusiastick or Enthusiasts which disdainfully he casts upon us he seems to intimate that it●● such as pretend Revelation from Heaven and Immediate Inspiration for their Rule It seems he pretends to neither but rather derides thereat like the Scoffers of the Times And how came he to get this word Enthusiast He should withal have told us its proper Definition and then it would have appeared more plainly in what Sense he useth it But I would ask him if the Baptists at their first coming forth were not counted Enthusiasts by their Persecutors when they profest the Help of the Spirit or Immediate In piration in their Praying and Preaching and the Sufficiency of the Spirit 's Teaching as Samuel How William Kiffin and many others did formerly And how many of them did preach up and esteem the Inward Work of the Spirit and Grace of God in the Heart which it seems Jeremy thou hast either had very little Experience of or else art greatly apostatized and become a Hard-hearted Mocker at the Acknowledgment of Immediate Inspiration which Principle thou wilt not confute by calling us Idle Enthusiasts 2. It s an idle Untruth in thee to accuse us with frequently enjoyning New Articles of Faith and Practice either by Immediate Inspiration or Pretence thereof neither hast thou shewn us what those Articles are that thou sayest are thus frequently enjoyned Again I cannot but observe how Senselesly and Atheistically thou talkest in concluding That if a man pretends a Revelation from Heaven or Immediate Inspiration for a Practice that 's Absurd the Quakers cannot Reprove him by Immediate Inspiration because he pretends to that for
him a Stable Christian. His implying or insinuating Tho. Rudyard guilty of Forgery for putting Mens Names to own the Matter in a Book without their Consent or Privacy p. 7. 11. I suppose Tho. Rudyard hath answered for himself to this Matter elsewhere viz. to a Paper of T. Hicks that charged him with the same Fact And for my Part I do not understand that he his chargeable with Forgery herein though he had not their Consent or Privacy seeing their Names were sent up Inhabitants then present with divers others at the Examination of the Anabaptists Lying Wonder in Lincolnshire that Richard Anderson untruly insinuated to be a Quaker whose Child was falsly alledged to be cured of a Leprosie by Means of the Baptists Prayers and the Certificate being sent up to him with the Names of those then present and Ear-Witnesses of that Account and others that subscribed their Hands as further Witnesses thereto whether they consented to the publishing of their Names to the Man's Account or not was not material so long as they knew the Thing was true what Reason had T. R. or any others to think that they would scruple their Names being printed as Persons present at such Examination or Account when they were present Ear-Witnesses and then Assenters to the Credit thereof all this doth not render them No Witnesses much less T. R. a Forg●r for giving the World a true Account of the Matter as it was sent up to him and not contrived by him by publishing amongst other Testimonies that Certificate that detected the Baptists Forgery from the Hands of several Witnesses who really subscribed thereto who withall certified and sent the Names of those Inhabitants present The Baptists Boasts about the said Lying Wonder are sufficiently detected in our Friends Answers thereto But Jeremy thinks he payes us off in several Passages we are now coming to as in asking Whether it be not very Uncharitable for W. P. to Violate the Laws of God and the Laws of the King in remembring any thing against those whom the King had graciously pardoned else that he would not have told Mr. Faldo in his Rejoynder pag. 406. of the Nonconformists preaching up Blood and Treason and Garments rol'd in the Blood of Kings c I must tell Jeremy That he hath herein dealt unfairly by W. P. and aggravated his Words by adding BLOOD and TREASON Whenas his Words are They are true Gospel-Ministers and their Feet truly Beautiful whose Gospel is Peace on Earth and Good-will towards Men and not Garments rol'd in the Blood of Kings and Princes Rulers and People No Worldly Armies Battels Spoils Sequestrations c. Though its true that John Faldo and his Brethren are retorted upon by W. P. for their Preaching up the former War but this was not to violate the King's Favour in pardoning them but to give them a Check for their being so busie against us in a Persecuting Spirit and particularly for Iohn Faldo's Abuse of William Penn and medling with his deceased Father about which I refer the Reader to W. P's own Answer to speak for himself in his Rejoynder to Iohn Faldo pag 405 406. And so W. P's Design might be rather to Humble them and to reclaim them from that old bitter Spirit wherein they were formerly Incendiaries and yet bring forth their Invectives tending to stir up Persecution against the People of the Lord And have not both the Holy Prophets and Christ also reminded such a persecuting Generation both of their own and their Fathers former Iniquities seeing them continuing therein in the same Spirit of Envy But I doubt not but W. P. desires their Repentance that they may be converted from their Persecuting Spirit that they may receive Pardon from God as well as from the King But Ieremy thou that wouldst seem so Zealous against Uncharitableness and Violating the Laws of God and the King hast thou dealt charitably by E. Burroughs in saying He d●th justifie the late Wars against the King and not only so but thou art pleased to tell the World twice or thrice over that we justifie the late Wars against the King How now Ieremy Is this thy Charity and Respect to the Laws of God and the King Hast thou not herein shewn a persecuting Spirit to render us obnoxious And why so Because E. B. in severely Warning the late Powers of their Down-fall did by way of Reproof tell Oliver what God had done for him even in the same Letter to him wherein he plainly also telleth him of the Great Oppressions which the People of God suffered under him both in their Persons and Estates Saying also to Oliver If I perish I must speak the Truth most of the Prisons this day in all thy Iurisdictions do testifie the Unjust Judgments and Great Oppressions and Cruelties yea and further conditionally threatens Oliver That God would confound and him see E. B's Works from pag. 551. to pag. 583. how plainly and faithfully he did warn Oliver and those men then in Power of their Overthrow To be sure E. B. was no Temporizer neither have we forborn in dealing plainly with those in Power when we have had Cause as the Lord hath moved and authorized us And further to clear E. B. and the Reprinter or Publisher of his Books as to their Freeness from being either a Factions Party or Seditious to the Government that now is and to manifest what a True Prophet he was and that never man dealt more plainly against the former Power and Government particularly in his Message to the then Rulers of England fol. 594. viz. If you of the Army be alwayes Treacherous and Disobedient towards the Lord and abuse your Power and trifle away your Hour about Places of Honour and such Self-seeking Matters and the Cause of God be neglected by you and his People continued Oppressed Sufferers under you as they have long been even then shall you be cast aside with shameful Disgrace and the Heavy Hand of the Lord shall be upon you in Judgment and you shall be smitten more then any before you your Estates shall not be spared from the Spoiler nor your Souls from the Pit nor your Persons from the Violence of Men no nor your Neeks from the Ax for if you be Unfaithful and continually Treacherous to the Cause of God then shall you be left to the Will of your Enemies and they shall charge Treachery and Treason upon you c. But our Opposer who under the Pretence of Christianity and Charitableness shews himself void of both tells us of a Quakers Book entituled The West answering to the North hath much to this Purpose which saith he I am not willing to write out because I am not willing to expose you I cannot but observe the Man's Dissimulation and base Insinuation in this implicite Kind of accusing us hereby to render us more suspicious and obnoxious then if he had dealt plainly especially whilst he accuseth us over and over with justifying
the late Wars against the King whenas that very Book quoted by him entituled The West answering to the North printed 1657. doth in the whole Tenour of it severely reprehend those then in Power to wit Oliver and his Ministers for their Oppressions Cruelties and Arbitrary Tyrannical Proceedings which they pretended to condemnin those before them though there might be some Words too harsh in the said Book as reflecting backward but with an Intent to judge them then in Power yet it is to be considered as chiefly writ by two Officers or Captains of the old Army being Common Wealths Men as I understand who had not as then wholy got over the Warring Spirit however did sympathize with our Poor Innocent Friends when they beheld their deep Sufferings as in some Degree sharing with them though its probable some Remainder of their former Sharpness of Spirit was left wherein they had been animated by such Zealous Chaplains as Jeremy yet those Books quoted by him were extant long before the King's Pardon which he pretends so greatly to respect but we have not gone about to serve him and his Brethren thus as to rake up all the Baptists Books that concerned the former War and Matters of State before the Kings coming in or Act of Indemnity However this we find Cause to believe that whatever Respect J. Ives his Brethren may pretend either to the Kings Gracious Pardon or the Law of Charity they would shew little Mercy if they had Power to execute their Enmity as well as to render us obnoxious to the Government such as Jer. Ives and his Brother T. Hicks would in all Probability be as busie Agents for our Ruine as they are now to endeavour it by such an Indictment as this that is made up of their present Accusations against us viz. That you justifie the late Wars against the King that you are No Christians nor worthy of so venerable a Name that your Doctrines are Destructive both to Scripture and Christian Religion that your Confessions are gross Equivocations that your Opinions do make void all Rules of Christian Faith and Practice that your Friends of the Ministry are Impostors false Prophets and Men of Lying Spirits Thus far J. Ives And then T. Hicks in his Dialogues against the Quakers viz. That you are Destructive to all Human Society Inconsistent with Government that you are as vile Impostors as ever were that your Religion is a meer Cheat calculated to the Service of the Devil and your own Lusts horrid Blasphemies that your chief Motive and Inducement to suffer is the Satisfaction of your Wills and Lusts or the promoting of your Carnal Interests that you are the Spawn of the wicked Brood the Ranters and have likt up their Vomit Romish Emissaries Hereticks Mad Men Infatuated such as esteem the Holy Scriptures of no more Au●hority then Esop ' s Fables and the Blood of Christ no more then an Unholy Thing or the Blood of a Common Thief yea worse that you reprobate the Holy Scriptures and the Person of Christ that you deny any future distinct Beings Rewards or Eternal Advantages to Men after Death that your owning Christ and the Christ you own is a meer Mystical Romance and that your Meetings are to Inveigle and Trapan People As also he recriminates the Quakers in General with the Enormities of some Particulars These with many more such like most bitter false and absurd Invectives by Tho. Hicks the Baptist-Agent O Persecuting Baptists But God be thanked that these Mens Horns are shortned for if they were not it is not unlikely but they would push and persecute asc ruelly as their Invectives are Inveterate and tend thereto or as their New-England Brethren whose Persecuting Spirits would not be satisfied without Innocent Blood Again Jer. Ive goes about to impeach us with an Inconsistency and to exhibit a pregnant Proof by Retortion of our being No Christians In that the Quakers refuse the Oath of Allegiance because they are against all Swearing as being Inconsistent with Christianity or living in the Life and Power of Christ or under his Government and yet reckons that some among us swear and for Instance he puts this Question What think you of William Mead who with Others took an Oath And what think you of Gerrard Roberts who together with John Osgood who with others took their Oathes as appears by their Answer to a Bill in Chancery To all which I reply from what I think 1. I tell this Inquisitor that I think they are all honest Men fearing God and Men conscientious towards him according to their Principle and that they would not injure or defraud or wrong any in their Properties or Rights and for what they do they dare appear before and answer the great God in the great Day of Judgment However if they were Conscious they are resolved they would not make this Inquisitor their Confessor for they neither expect Mercy nor Absolution from him 2. I also think and William Mead John Osgood Gerrard Roberts are satisfied that they are able to give an honest Account of their Conscientious Tenderness in this Case and that according to a good Conscience if in Love desired or out of an honest Intention or for a good End without any Design of Injury towards them or their Profession But they have no Cause to think that Ier. Ives doth enquire or accuse them to the World for any good End or out of any Friendship to them or Love to their Souls but rather from a Design of Mischief or Injury as the Tenour of his Discourse against them imports Therefore they are resolved rather to suffer his Revilings and endure his Clamours then gratifie a mischievous Spirit by giving him Account of their Affairs or Proceedings for their Properties Rights which only they seek for and not to injure their Neighbours or any Man else in their Names Persons or Estates 3. That if either Ieremy or any Baptists or others for him have made Search in Chancery or do enquire of any Officers belonging thereto whether any of the Quakers have given in their Answer upon Oath I think that he and such his Enquirers are Busibodies in other mens Matters while 't is not their own Concernments And whilst their Design and End therein is for Evil against our Friends it might be supected by those Officers in trust concerned as not to be for Good towards them or us in their Inquiry and that therefore such busie Inquisitors might justly have met with a Repulse and been rejected and not answer'd in their captious Attempts 4. To his falsly accusing the Quakers with daily impleading People at Law I say That though some of them have Occasion sometimes to make use of the Law they are necessitated thereto to maintain their just Rights Properties from such Unconscionable Men as would otherwise make a Prey upon them to Ruin them and theirs and not to injure others or defraud any of their Rights in